Does a company director need a NI number?

[Phil Mcbride]

Follow up on the setting up a company recommendation thread. Wife is
Filipino and currently does locum nursing work under a temporary NI
number.

If she wants to set up a jewelry sales company as a director, must she
have a NI number?

[Nick Leverton]

In article <600aa7cd-5c4b-47eb...@a16g2000vby.googlegroups.com>,

I would imagine so as Directors have to pay NI on their emoluments just
like anyone. Assuming she falls within HMRC's definitions of being
resident which I guess she does as she already has a TN. But AFAIK
the TN is her NI number anyway until she gets issued with a normal one
(or are temporary NI numbers employment specific, I don't remember).

Nick
--
"The Internet, a sort of ersatz counterfeit of real life"
-- Janet Street-Porter, BBC2, 19th March 1996

[Roland Perry]

In message
<600aa7cd-5c4b-47eb...@a16g2000vby.googlegroups.com>, at
16:00:06 on Fri, 22 Jun 2012, Phil Mcbride <philmc...@gmail.com>
remarked:

There's a subtext to explore here. If you are intending to pay any of
the profits to the Directors as salary, you will have to run a PAYE
scheme (even for just one employee).

If you decide not to go down the Ltd Company route, then your wife will
need to file self-assessment forms, which requires an NI number.

Finally, does her immigration status allow her to be "in business",
sometimes there's a transitional periods where new arrivals can be
employees but not start their own business.
--
Roland Perry

[A.Lee]

Short answer, no, as a 'Foreigner', she does not need a National
Insurance number to be a Director.

However, there will be tax and domicile implications involved if she is
working here in the UK. These have nothing to do with being a Director
of a UK Ltd. Co., but will be related in Tax and Immigration Law.

--
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.

[Pedt]

In message
<600aa7cd-5c4b-47eb...@a16g2000vby.googlegroups.com>, at
16:00:06 on Fri, 22 Jun 2012, Phil Mcbride <philmc...@gmail.com>

>Follow up on the setting up a company recommendation thread. Wife is
>Filipino and currently does locum nursing work under a temporary NI
>number.

HMRC stopped the use of temporary TNddmmyyF/M numbers by employers on
5th April 2006, if that is what she is using or been given by current
employer. (dd/mm/yy is day, month, year of birth); ends in F(emale) or
M(ale) obviously.

Current employer if later date shouldn't be doing it, if same employer
from before then she should have been told to apply for a permanent NINO
from that date.

If the NINO does not start with TN then it will very likely [1][2] be
her permanent NINO but I'm guessing that it is a TN number.

I would suggest that if it does start with TN that she applies for a
permanent NINO as soon as possible.

I would also suggest that you keep every offer, payslip, P45, P60, any
other documentation, etc. for as far back as you still have them if it
is a TN number. This would help HMRC reconstruct her employment history
if there is an identical TN number out there (which is not entirely
unlikely).


[1] Can't say for certain without knowing the first two letters as
there's a few wrinkles involved.[2]

[2] If it starts with an "S" then it *is* her permanent NINO - I say
this as a number of people who apply for a NINO and get one starting
with "S" have been told by a few unscrupulous companies that 'it is
still temporary and if you give us dosh we can get it upgraded' -
slightly paraphrased and which is a load of Jim Hacker's Round Objects.

>
>If she wants to set up a jewelry sales company as a director, must she
>have a NI number?

Not necessarily.

If your wife is domiciled in the UK and intends to take any income in
any form (PAYE, dividends, emolument, etc) from it taxable in the UK
then she needs a NINO and possibly a UTR.

(NINO = National Insurance Number) (UTR = Unique Taxpayer Reference) in
all of the above.

--
Pedt

[steve robinson]

She requires an NI number if she is domociled in the uk, the business
is registered in the uk ad she drawers a wage in the UK

She would certainly attract attention if wilst domciled in the UK she
ran a business, without a workforce and made a profit

[A.Lee]

Which is what I said - I anwsered the question directly, with the caveat
below that there may be tax and domicile implications.

There was no query about tax or if she was likely to be earning/working
here.

If you think that is wrong, then please could you give a reference, if
not, why are you repeating what I said?

[philmc...@gmail.com]

On Friday, 22 June 2012 21:05:03 UTC, Nick Leverton wrote:
> In article <600aa7cd-5c4b-47eb...@a16g2000vby.googlegroups.com>,
> Phil Mcbride

> wrote:
> >Follow up on the setting up a company recommendation thread. Wife is
> >Filipino and currently does locum nursing work under a temporary NI
> >number.
> >
> >If she wants to set up a jewelry sales company as a director, must she
> >have a NI number?
>
> I would imagine so as Directors have to pay NI on their emoluments just
> like anyone. Assuming she falls within HMRC's definitions of being
> resident which I guess she does as she already has a TN. But AFAIK
> the TN is her NI number anyway until she gets issued with a normal one
> (or are temporary NI numbers employment specific, I don't remember).
>
> Nick
> --
> "The Internet, a sort of ersatz counterfeit of real life"
> -- Janet Street-Porter, BBC2, 19th March 1996

We never really saw the need to hurry with a NI application. She gets paid and makes contributions to her TN number, and her locum nursing work may not be for much longer.

With our third child on the way we are looking for a means whereby she can be at home full time to take care of the children, but somehow contribute to income.

I spoke to an accountant friend about this and were told that HMRC can credit her for her NI contributions whilst on a TN number, when she gets a proper one.

[philmc...@gmail.com]

On Saturday, 23 June 2012 07:15:05 UTC, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message
> <600aa7cd-5c4b-47eb...@a16g2000vby.googlegroups.com>, at
> 16:00:06 on Fri, 22 Jun 2012, Phil Mcbride
>

> remarked:
> >Follow up on the setting up a company recommendation thread. Wife is
> >Filipino and currently does locum nursing work under a temporary NI
> >number.
> >
> >If she wants to set up a jewelry sales company as a director, must she
> >have a NI number?
>
> There's a subtext to explore here. If you are intending to pay any of
> the profits to the Directors as salary, you will have to run a PAYE
> scheme (even for just one employee).

Does this also apply for dividend payments?

> If you decide not to go down the Ltd Company route, then your wife will
> need to file self-assessment forms, which requires an NI number.

Yes we found that out when exploring the sole proprietor method.

> Finally, does her immigration status allow her to be "in business",
> sometimes there's a transitional periods where new arrivals can be
> employees but not start their own business.

I find it hard to imagine how foreigners can not be directors of ltd companies in the UK without fanfare. How do foreigners come and set up companies here?

[steve robinson]

Sorry i misread what you posted

[A.Lee]

Accepted, sorry too, I'm a little stressed today!
Alan.

[Roland Perry]

In message <5e20b70f-a24d-430e...@googlegroups.com>, at
10:35:02 on Sat, 23 Jun 2012, philmc...@gmail.com remarked:

>>If you are intending to pay any of
>> the profits to the Directors as salary, you will have to run a PAYE
>> scheme (even for just one employee).
>
>Does this also apply for dividend payments?

I would assume so, but haven't any direct experiences of this.

>> Finally, does her immigration status allow her to be "in business",
>> sometimes there's a transitional periods where new arrivals can be
>> employees but not start their own business.
>
>I find it hard to imagine how foreigners can not be directors of ltd
>companies in the UK without fanfare. How do foreigners come and set up
>companies here?

They need the correct form of visa I suppose. I was just commenting that
I didn't think the "wife of a Brit" kind of visa allowed it right away.
--
Roland Perry

[Chris R]

>
>
> "steve robinson" wrote in message
> news:xn0hzolkh...@reader80.eternal-september.org...

Do you mean resident rather than domiciled?
--
Chris R

[steve robinson]

Resident may have been a better choice


Stolen from another site

In UK tax terms the liability to income tax and capital gains tax (CGT)
generally depends on whether an individual is resident, ordinarily
resident and domiciled in the UK. An individual is broadly liable to
income tax on worldwide income if UK resident, or on UK income if
non-UK resident. Also a non-dom would not be liable to pay UK
Inheritance Tax (40%) on any non-UK assets.

[Alex Heney]

She does not need an NI number to be a director.

She does if she draws a salary from the company.

In companies with multiple directors, they don't all even have to be
humans. They can be legal "persons" such as other companies.

But there does have to be at least one "natural person" among the
directors.
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
Remember, Subaru spelled backwards is U-R-A-BUS.
To reply by email, my address is alexDOTheneyATgmailDOTcom

[Ken]

In article <LPydnULBQqHPbnjS...@brightview.co.uk>, Chris R
<inv...@invalid.munge.co.uk> writes

Yes, I wondered about that. I had understood "domicile" to mean the
place where you intend to be buried when you die. Thus having a greater
degree of permanence that "residency". Can anyone confirm or correct
that?
--
Ken

[Goldenwight]

In short, no.

This is real basic- she (or the company, as employer) will be liable to pay National Insurance contributions. And believe me, HMRC WILL provide an NINo in a very short space of time, they won't argue about nationality etc.

But put very simply, anyone (OK, there are a couple of legal exceptions) can become a company director in the UK. Any emoluments they receive are liable to National Insurance (assuming a couple of residence issues which aren't relevant here) and the NINo is simply a means of identifying the contributor- who may or may not actually get any benefit from the contribution.

[steve robinson]

Unless of course you join K2

[Humbug]

On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 17:25:02 +0100, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk>
wrote:

>In message <5e20b70f-a24d-430e...@googlegroups.com>, at
>10:35:02 on Sat, 23 Jun 2012, philmc...@gmail.com remarked:
>>>If you are intending to pay any of
>>> the profits to the Directors as salary, you will have to run a PAYE
>>> scheme (even for just one employee).
>>
>>Does this also apply for dividend payments?
>
>I would assume so, but haven't any direct experiences of this.

No.

PAYE is for the director's slary.
Dividends are paid to shareholders (of which the director is usually
one, and probably in this case the only one).

In order to pay dividends, the company would have to be Limited, and
pay corporation tax on the profits (not including the director's
salary).

--
Humbug
(Director of a Limited company)

[Andy Burns]

Humbug wrote:

> PAYE is for the director's slary.
> Dividends are paid to shareholders (of which the director is usually
> one, and probably in this case the only one).
> In order to pay dividends, the company would have to be Limited, and
> pay corporation tax on the profits (not including the director's
> salary).

A director will usually be required to submit a self assessment return,
so will require a UTR, does this imply needing a NINO?

[Roland Perry]

In message <XOadnYyF6a8WynLS...@brightview.co.uk>, at
20:55:02 on Sat, 30 Jun 2012, Andy Burns <usenet....@adslpipe.co.uk>
remarked:

What I suspected, but have no experience of, is that the Director would
have to declare the dividends on a self assessment form, and that such a
form can only be issued to someone with a NINO.

Other forms, like P11D, which have to filed (even if full of zeroes)
appear to require the director's NINO.

--
Roland Perry

[Andy Burns]

Roland Perry wrote:

> Other forms, like P11D, which have to filed (even if full of zeroes)
> appear to require the director's NINO.

You shouldn't submit a P11D if it would be all zeroes

<http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/guidance/p11dguide.pdf>

[Roland Perry]

In message <t9ydncGMn7km7XLS...@brightview.co.uk>, at
22:40:20 on Sat, 30 Jun 2012, Andy Burns <usenet....@adslpipe.co.uk>
remarked:

That's interesting, I thought it was compulsory for directors, and
optional only for employees (with no expenses).
--
Roland Perry

[Humbug]

On Sat, 30 Jun 2012 22:10:03 +0100, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk>
wrote:

>In message <XOadnYyF6a8WynLS...@brightview.co.uk>, at
>20:55:02 on Sat, 30 Jun 2012, Andy Burns <usenet....@adslpipe.co.uk>
>remarked:
>>> PAYE is for the director's slary.
>>> Dividends are paid to shareholders (of which the director is usually
>>> one, and probably in this case the only one).
>>> In order to pay dividends, the company would have to be Limited, and
>>> pay corporation tax on the profits (not including the director's
>>> salary).
>>
>>A director will usually be required to submit a self assessment return,
>>so will require a UTR, does this imply needing a NINO?
>
>What I suspected, but have no experience of, is that the Director would
>have to declare the dividends on a self assessment form, and that such a
>form can only be issued to someone with a NINO.

That is correct.

>Other forms, like P11D, which have to filed (even if full of zeroes)
>appear to require the director's NINO.

A P11D does not have to be filed if there are no relevant benefits.
I can imagine that a P11D full of zeroes could cause an issue.

--
Humbug