Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss
Welsh language posting in a moderated UK newsgroup.
74 views
Skip to first unread message
Echo Nancy
Mar 14, 2013, 2:20:02 PM3/14/13
to
Would it be OK for the moderators of a UK newsgroup reject a post purely
because it was written in Welsh? Would it raise any legal/discrimination
issues if the group charter only allowed English posts?
because it was written in Welsh? Would it raise any legal/discrimination
issues if the group charter only allowed English posts?
Roland Perry
Mar 14, 2013, 3:25:02 PM3/14/13
to
In message <2PidnZzuX_y5id_M...@giganews.com>, at 18:20:02
on Thu, 14 Mar 2013, Echo Nancy <e...@privacy.net> remarked:
understand/read/translate it.
>Would it raise any legal/discrimination
>issues if the group charter only allowed English posts?
No.
And combining the two, is this sig acceptable/unacceptable/or merely
misguided:
--
Mae'r e-bost hwn ac unrhyw ffeiliau a drosglwyddir gydag ef yn gyfrinachol ac
wedi'u bwriadu ar gyfer pwy bynnag y cyfeirir ef ato neu atynt.
on Thu, 14 Mar 2013, Echo Nancy <e...@privacy.net> remarked:
>Would it be OK for the moderators of a UK newsgroup reject a post purely
>because it was written in Welsh?
I wouldn't expect them to *accept* a post if they couldn't
>because it was written in Welsh?
understand/read/translate it.
>Would it raise any legal/discrimination
>issues if the group charter only allowed English posts?
And combining the two, is this sig acceptable/unacceptable/or merely
misguided:
--
Mae'r e-bost hwn ac unrhyw ffeiliau a drosglwyddir gydag ef yn gyfrinachol ac
wedi'u bwriadu ar gyfer pwy bynnag y cyfeirir ef ato neu atynt.
Andy Champ
Mar 14, 2013, 4:50:16 PM3/14/13
to
On 14/03/2013 19:25, Roland Perry wrote:
>
> And combining the two, is this sig acceptable/unacceptable/or merely
> misguided:
> --
> Mae'r e-bost hwn ac unrhyw ffeiliau a drosglwyddir gydag ef yn
> gyfrinachol ac
> wedi'u bwriadu ar gyfer pwy bynnag y cyfeirir ef ato neu atynt.
Definitely misguided. The chances of the random person the mis-sent mail
>
> And combining the two, is this sig acceptable/unacceptable/or merely
> misguided:
> --
> Mae'r e-bost hwn ac unrhyw ffeiliau a drosglwyddir gydag ef yn
> gyfrinachol ac
> wedi'u bwriadu ar gyfer pwy bynnag y cyfeirir ef ato neu atynt.
getting to knowing Welsh must be pretty low. And even then it doesn't
say anything.
BTW I got a mis-sent mail the other day, first time for ages (as opposed
to a spam that is) - from a solicitor's clerk. Luckily it didn't say
anything interesting. Now I've gone to look buried in the rubbish in the
sig is "This email may contain confidential and/or privileged
information. If you have received it in error please let the sender know
as soon as possible.". I hadn't noticed!
Andy
Mark Goodge
Mar 14, 2013, 3:30:05 PM3/14/13
to
On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 18:20:02 +0000, Echo Nancy put finger to keyboard and
typed:
>Would it be OK for the moderators of a UK newsgroup reject a post purely
>because it was written in Welsh?
Yes, provided that the charter allows that as a reason for rejection. If
not, then the moderators are going against the charter themselves. However,
that is neither a criminal offence nor a cause for civil action.
>Would it raise any legal/discrimination
>issues if the group charter only allowed English posts?
None whatsoever.
Mark
--
Blog: http://mark.goodge.co.uk
Stuff: http://www.good-stuff.co.uk
typed:
>Would it be OK for the moderators of a UK newsgroup reject a post purely
>because it was written in Welsh?
not, then the moderators are going against the charter themselves. However,
that is neither a criminal offence nor a cause for civil action.
>Would it raise any legal/discrimination
>issues if the group charter only allowed English posts?
Mark
--
Blog: http://mark.goodge.co.uk
Stuff: http://www.good-stuff.co.uk
Peter Crosland
Mar 14, 2013, 4:20:02 PM3/14/13
to
they cannot be sure it is appropriate and not defamatory. That is not
discriminatory.
--
Regards Peter Crosland
R. Mark Clayton
Mar 14, 2013, 4:30:12 PM3/14/13
to
"Echo Nancy" <e...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:2PidnZzuX_y5id_M...@giganews.com...
Would it be OK for the moderators of a UK newsgroup reject a post purely
because it was written in Welsh? Would it raise any legal/discrimination
issues if the group charter only allowed English posts?
Posts in other languages sometimes turn up in English language groups (e.g.
because it was written in Welsh? Would it raise any legal/discrimination
issues if the group charter only allowed English posts?
in Spanish in the unmoderated version of this one)
If the group's charter says "English language" then I think they would be
OK.
The other problem is that if the moderators don't speak Welsh very well or
even at all, then the post could say all sorts of rude thinks (e.g. about
Lord MacApline) and they might republish without knowing.
====
I still remember a marvellous cartoon from north Wales. It showed houses
with all the TV aerials pointing towards England with each one in the shape
of the word "NO"...
Fredxx
Mar 14, 2013, 4:30:12 PM3/14/13
to
On 14/03/2013 18:20, Echo Nancy wrote:
official primary language being spoken. If not there is probably a
greater case for Polish to be catered for here.
Roger Dewhurst
Mar 14, 2013, 4:35:01 PM3/14/13
to
many as possible, can read the post. Those that post in a language
that cannot be understood by most of the readers may well need to see
a shrink!
Steve Walker
Mar 14, 2013, 5:15:02 PM3/14/13
to
> Would it be OK for the moderators of a UK newsgroup reject a post purely
> because it was written in Welsh? Would it raise any legal/discrimination
> issues if the group charter only allowed English posts?
UKLM will only accept posts written in English. Firstly because it's the
> because it was written in Welsh? Would it raise any legal/discrimination
> issues if the group charter only allowed English posts?
lingua franca in our UK context and secondly because the moderators do not
have the capacity to deal with Gaelic, Greek or Gujarati.
I don't know if that raises any legal/discrimination issues, but I wouldn't
think so. The big national newspapers do not publish reader's letters to
the editor in foreign languages, for example. If they start to do so then
we will reconsider our position.
SteveModHat
Alex
Mar 14, 2013, 5:40:02 PM3/14/13
to
understood by Welsh speakers?
--
Alexis
"The best translator is one who translates somebody’s silence."
Stuart A. Bronstein
Mar 15, 2013, 12:00:05 AM3/15/13
to
Dr Zoidberg
Mar 15, 2013, 3:35:02 AM3/15/13
to
> Would it be OK for the moderators of a UK newsgroup reject a post purely
> because it was written in Welsh?
Yes, as it's very unlikely it could be read and understood. The same applies
> because it was written in Welsh?
for any other foreign language.
> Would it raise any legal/discrimination issues if the group charter only
> allowed English posts?
communication takes place in the national language rather than Welsh, Polish
or Klingon.
--
Alex
F Murtz
Mar 15, 2013, 3:45:03 AM3/15/13
to
Norman Wells
Mar 15, 2013, 5:05:02 AM3/15/13
to
Steve Walker wrote:
> "Echo Nancy" <e...@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:2PidnZzuX_y5id_M...@giganews.com...
>> Would it be OK for the moderators of a UK newsgroup reject a post
>> purely because it was written in Welsh? Would it raise any
>> legal/discrimination issues if the group charter only allowed
>> English posts?
>
> UKLM will only accept posts written in English. Firstly because
> it's the lingua franca in our UK context and secondly because the
> moderators do not have the capacity to deal with Gaelic, Greek or
> Gujarati.
But that's contrary to the UKLM Charter, which I quote directly:
> "Echo Nancy" <e...@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:2PidnZzuX_y5id_M...@giganews.com...
>> Would it be OK for the moderators of a UK newsgroup reject a post
>> purely because it was written in Welsh? Would it raise any
>> legal/discrimination issues if the group charter only allowed
>> English posts?
>
> UKLM will only accept posts written in English. Firstly because
> it's the lingua franca in our UK context and secondly because the
> moderators do not have the capacity to deal with Gaelic, Greek or
> Gujarati.
"Contributors are permitted to express strong disagreement using
whatever language they wish"!
> I don't know if that raises any legal/discrimination issues, but I
> wouldn't think so.
As I understand it, it is illegal to treat anyone less favourably in the
provision of goods or services because of race, colour, and nationality,
ethnic or national origin. Obviously, language is a good indicator of
at least some of these, so discrimination on the grounds of language
would at least superficially appear to be a bit of a dubious practice.
There is also of course the question of Article 10 of the European
Convention on Human Rights concerning freedom of expression. Does not
discrimination on the grounds of language infringe that?
> The big national newspapers do not publish
> reader's letters to the editor in foreign languages, for example. If
> they start to do so then we will reconsider our position.
Szymon von Ulezalka
Mar 15, 2013, 6:45:02 AM3/15/13
to
> One obvious problem is that if the moderator does not speak the language
> they cannot be sure it is appropriate and not defamatory. That is not
> discriminatory.
in that case moderator should either learn new language, or pass the
> they cannot be sure it is appropriate and not defamatory. That is not
> discriminatory.
mail to someone who can already speak it.
Both, Welsh and Scottish Gaelic are official languages (together with
English) within UK.
> Regards Peter Crosland
best regards,
Simon
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
The Todal
Mar 15, 2013, 8:00:05 AM3/15/13
to
On 15/3/13 09:05, Norman Wells wrote:
> Steve Walker wrote:
>> "Echo Nancy" <e...@privacy.net> wrote in message
>> news:2PidnZzuX_y5id_M...@giganews.com...
>>> Would it be OK for the moderators of a UK newsgroup reject a post
>>> purely because it was written in Welsh? Would it raise any
>>> legal/discrimination issues if the group charter only allowed
>>> English posts?
>>
>> UKLM will only accept posts written in English. Firstly because
>> it's the lingua franca in our UK context and secondly because the
>> moderators do not have the capacity to deal with Gaelic, Greek or
>> Gujarati.
>
> But that's contrary to the UKLM Charter, which I quote directly:
>
> "Contributors are permitted to express strong disagreement using
> whatever language they wish"!
Good point, though you're actually quoting from the moderation policy
> Steve Walker wrote:
>> "Echo Nancy" <e...@privacy.net> wrote in message
>> news:2PidnZzuX_y5id_M...@giganews.com...
>>> Would it be OK for the moderators of a UK newsgroup reject a post
>>> purely because it was written in Welsh? Would it raise any
>>> legal/discrimination issues if the group charter only allowed
>>> English posts?
>>
>> UKLM will only accept posts written in English. Firstly because
>> it's the lingua franca in our UK context and secondly because the
>> moderators do not have the capacity to deal with Gaelic, Greek or
>> Gujarati.
>
> But that's contrary to the UKLM Charter, which I quote directly:
>
> "Contributors are permitted to express strong disagreement using
> whatever language they wish"!
rather than the charter. An amendment to the policy will be required if
we start to see foreign language posts, nicht wahr?
>
>> I don't know if that raises any legal/discrimination issues, but I
>> wouldn't think so.
>
> Why? Could you please explain it a bit further?
>
> As I understand it, it is illegal to treat anyone less favourably in the
> provision of goods or services because of race, colour, and nationality,
> ethnic or national origin. Obviously, language is a good indicator of
> at least some of these, so discrimination on the grounds of language
> would at least superficially appear to be a bit of a dubious practice.
>
> There is also of course the question of Article 10 of the European
> Convention on Human Rights concerning freedom of expression. Does not
> discrimination on the grounds of language infringe that?
>
>> The big national newspapers do not publish
>> reader's letters to the editor in foreign languages, for example. If
>> they start to do so then we will reconsider our position.
>
> Since when have two wrongs made a right?
Ojibway. Well worth a look.
http://euro.ecom.cmu.edu/program/law/08-732/Interpretation/regina.pdf
Pedt
Mar 15, 2013, 8:25:02 AM3/15/13
to
In message <MrB0t.43604$Q01....@fx13.fr7>, at 09:05:02 on Fri, 15 Mar
2013, Norman Wells <h...@unseen.ac.am>
digested male bovine fodder rather than the use of Ukrainian, Moldovan,
Klingon, et al instead of English.
--
Pedt
2013, Norman Wells <h...@unseen.ac.am>
>Steve Walker wrote:
>> "Echo Nancy" <e...@privacy.net> wrote in message
>> news:2PidnZzuX_y5id_M...@giganews.com...
>>> Would it be OK for the moderators of a UK newsgroup reject a post
>>> purely because it was written in Welsh? Would it raise any
>>> legal/discrimination issues if the group charter only allowed
>>> English posts?
>>
>> UKLM will only accept posts written in English. Firstly because
>> it's the lingua franca in our UK context and secondly because the
>> moderators do not have the capacity to deal with Gaelic, Greek or
>> Gujarati.
>
>But that's contrary to the UKLM Charter, which I quote directly:
>
>"Contributors are permitted to express strong disagreement using
>whatever language they wish"!
That means more on the lines of a common word for a rectal extrusion of
>> "Echo Nancy" <e...@privacy.net> wrote in message
>> news:2PidnZzuX_y5id_M...@giganews.com...
>>> Would it be OK for the moderators of a UK newsgroup reject a post
>>> purely because it was written in Welsh? Would it raise any
>>> legal/discrimination issues if the group charter only allowed
>>> English posts?
>>
>> UKLM will only accept posts written in English. Firstly because
>> it's the lingua franca in our UK context and secondly because the
>> moderators do not have the capacity to deal with Gaelic, Greek or
>> Gujarati.
>
>But that's contrary to the UKLM Charter, which I quote directly:
>
>"Contributors are permitted to express strong disagreement using
>whatever language they wish"!
digested male bovine fodder rather than the use of Ukrainian, Moldovan,
Klingon, et al instead of English.
--
Pedt
AnthonyL
Mar 15, 2013, 8:40:02 AM3/15/13
to
On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 19:25:02 +0000, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk>
wrote:
>
>And combining the two, is this sig acceptable/unacceptable/or merely
>misguided:
>--
>Mae'r e-bost hwn ac unrhyw ffeiliau a drosglwyddir gydag ef yn gyfrinachol ac
>wedi'u bwriadu ar gyfer pwy bynnag y cyfeirir ef ato neu atynt.
>
I tried that through ROT13 and it didn't come out any the clearer :(
Znr'e r-obfg uja np haeulj ssrvyvnh n qebftyjlqqve tlqnt rs la
tlsevanpuby np jrqv'h ojevnqh ne tlsre cjl olaant l plsrveve rs ngb
arh nglag
--
AnthonyL
wrote:
>
>And combining the two, is this sig acceptable/unacceptable/or merely
>misguided:
>--
>Mae'r e-bost hwn ac unrhyw ffeiliau a drosglwyddir gydag ef yn gyfrinachol ac
>wedi'u bwriadu ar gyfer pwy bynnag y cyfeirir ef ato neu atynt.
>
Znr'e r-obfg uja np haeulj ssrvyvnh n qebftyjlqqve tlqnt rs la
tlsevanpuby np jrqv'h ojevnqh ne tlsre cjl olaant l plsrveve rs ngb
arh nglag
--
AnthonyL
Dr Zoidberg
Mar 15, 2013, 8:40:02 AM3/15/13
to
"Szymon von Ulezalka" <sz.grus...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:db05931a-2cc9-4968...@bs5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
>> One obvious problem is that if the moderator does not speak the language
>> they cannot be sure it is appropriate and not defamatory. That is not
>> discriminatory.
>
> in that case moderator should either learn new language, or pass the
> mail to someone who can already speak it.
> Both, Welsh and Scottish Gaelic are official languages (together with
> English) within UK.
>
Ok, we'll get right on with the language courses, but in the mean time any
>> they cannot be sure it is appropriate and not defamatory. That is not
>> discriminatory.
>
> in that case moderator should either learn new language, or pass the
> mail to someone who can already speak it.
> Both, Welsh and Scottish Gaelic are official languages (together with
> English) within UK.
>
foreign language posts will wait in the queue :0)
--
Alex
GB
Mar 15, 2013, 8:45:03 AM3/15/13
to
On 15/03/2013 10:45, Szymon von Ulezalka wrote:
>> One obvious problem is that if the moderator does not speak the language
>> they cannot be sure it is appropriate and not defamatory. That is not
>> discriminatory.
>
> in that case moderator should either learn new language, or pass the
> mail to someone who can already speak it.
> Both, Welsh and Scottish Gaelic are official languages (together with
> English) within UK.
>
Dit is heeltemal onredelik in my beskeie mening.Hoekom moet moderators
>> One obvious problem is that if the moderator does not speak the language
>> they cannot be sure it is appropriate and not defamatory. That is not
>> discriminatory.
>
> in that case moderator should either learn new language, or pass the
> mail to someone who can already speak it.
> Both, Welsh and Scottish Gaelic are official languages (together with
> English) within UK.
>
leer 'n nuwe taal aan te pas 'n paar random bydraer?
As die bydraer regtig net een bepaalde taal praat, hy kan altyd gebruik
Google Translate sy woorde van wysheid te lewer in 'n soort van Engels
egter onakkuraat mag wees. As jy wil weet hoe verkeerd, probeer vertaal
dit weer terug.
Steve Firth
Mar 15, 2013, 9:05:02 AM3/15/13
to
there's no onus on anyone to answer in Welsh or at all.
There's also, AFAIK no imperative on the moderators to approve it within
a particular time limit and it would seem reasonable for them to not
approve the post until either they learn Welsh, accept a mechanical
translation or get a human being to read it to them.
Why is Welsh considered particularly important in this respect? I
believe that the mods have accepted, in the past, posts written in other
European languages. Presumably because one or several of them understood
the post of understood enough of the the post to be reasonably confident
that the poster was not being hurtful to another.
--
Burn Hollywood burn, burn down to the ground
GB
Mar 15, 2013, 9:10:02 AM3/15/13
to
I am, incidentally, not an Afrikaans speaker, and I am very much hoping
that GT has not made something rude out of my perfectly innocuous post.
The Todal
Mar 15, 2013, 9:15:02 AM3/15/13
to
to translate a sentence into one language, and from that language into a
succession of other languages.
or to put that another way...
Administrators and even more interesting, you can use Google Translate
to translate phrases in one language and that language in the following
languages.
Message has been deleted
GB
Mar 15, 2013, 10:05:02 AM3/15/13
to
On 15/03/2013 13:40, Jethro_uk wrote:
>> I am suddenly reminded of that interesting piece of case-law, R. v
>> Ojibway. Well worth a look.
>>
>> http://euro.ecom.cmu.edu/program/law/08-732/Interpretation/regina.pdf
>
> wtf ?!
>> I am suddenly reminded of that interesting piece of case-law, R. v
>> Ojibway. Well worth a look.
>>
>> http://euro.ecom.cmu.edu/program/law/08-732/Interpretation/regina.pdf
>
>
> Canadian ?
>
I suggest that you re-read it before commenting further.
Ophelia
Mar 15, 2013, 10:50:02 AM3/15/13
to
"AnthonyL" <nos...@please.invalid> wrote in message
news:5143157e...@news.zen.co.uk...
> On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 19:25:02 +0000, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>And combining the two, is this sig acceptable/unacceptable/or merely
>>misguided:
>>--
>>Mae'r e-bost hwn ac unrhyw ffeiliau a drosglwyddir gydag ef yn gyfrinachol
>>ac
>>wedi'u bwriadu ar gyfer pwy bynnag y cyfeirir ef ato neu atynt.
>>
>
> I tried that through ROT13 and it didn't come out any the clearer :(#
> wrote:
>
>>
>>And combining the two, is this sig acceptable/unacceptable/or merely
>>misguided:
>>--
>>Mae'r e-bost hwn ac unrhyw ffeiliau a drosglwyddir gydag ef yn gyfrinachol
>>ac
>>wedi'u bwriadu ar gyfer pwy bynnag y cyfeirir ef ato neu atynt.
>>
>
Stick it in Google translate:)
> Znr'e r-obfg uja np haeulj ssrvyvnh n qebftyjlqqve tlqnt rs la
> tlsevanpuby np jrqv'h ojevnqh ne tlsre cjl olaant l plsrveve rs ngb
> arh nglag
>
>
> --
> AnthonyL
>
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/
Janet
Mar 15, 2013, 9:55:08 AM3/15/13
to
In article <db05931a-2cc9-4968-80f8-335e8c01c6a8
@bs5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>, sz.grus...@gmail.com says...
Janet
@bs5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>, sz.grus...@gmail.com says...
>
> > One obvious problem is that if the moderator does not speak the language
> > they cannot be sure it is appropriate and not defamatory. That is not
> > discriminatory.
>
> in that case moderator should either learn new language, or pass the
> mail to someone who can already speak it.
Just don't complain about any delays in posts appearing...
> > One obvious problem is that if the moderator does not speak the language
> > they cannot be sure it is appropriate and not defamatory. That is not
> > discriminatory.
>
> in that case moderator should either learn new language, or pass the
> mail to someone who can already speak it.
Janet
Andy Champ
Mar 15, 2013, 11:10:01 AM3/15/13
to
On 15/03/2013 13:15, The Todal wrote:
> And to give the moderators even more fun, one could use Google Translate
> to translate a sentence into one language, and from that language into a
> succession of other languages.
>
> or to put that another way...
>
> Administrators and even more interesting, you can use Google Translate
> to translate phrases in one language and that language in the following
> languages.
My hovercraft is full of eels.
> And to give the moderators even more fun, one could use Google Translate
> to translate a sentence into one language, and from that language into a
> succession of other languages.
>
> or to put that another way...
>
> Administrators and even more interesting, you can use Google Translate
> to translate phrases in one language and that language in the following
> languages.
Andy
Norman Wells
Mar 15, 2013, 11:40:02 AM3/15/13
to
Norman Wells
Mar 15, 2013, 11:45:02 AM3/15/13
to
Jethro_uk wrote:
Under the Convention, the state is required to "secure to everyone
within their jurisdiction the rights and freedoms defined". I think
that is regardless of who seeks to curtail them. Don't you?
> On Fri, 15 Mar 2013 09:05:02 +0000, Norman Wells wrote:
>
>> There is also of course the question of Article 10 of the European
>> Convention on Human Rights concerning freedom of expression. Does
>> not discrimination on the grounds of language infringe that?
>
> Only when done by the state.
>
>> There is also of course the question of Article 10 of the European
>> Convention on Human Rights concerning freedom of expression. Does
>> not discrimination on the grounds of language infringe that?
>
Under the Convention, the state is required to "secure to everyone
within their jurisdiction the rights and freedoms defined". I think
that is regardless of who seeks to curtail them. Don't you?
Norman Wells
Mar 15, 2013, 12:05:01 PM3/15/13
to
The Todal wrote:
> On 15/3/13 09:05, Norman Wells wrote:
>> Steve Walker wrote:
>>> "Echo Nancy" <e...@privacy.net> wrote in message
>>> news:2PidnZzuX_y5id_M...@giganews.com...
>>>> Would it be OK for the moderators of a UK newsgroup reject a post
>>>> purely because it was written in Welsh? Would it raise any
>>>> legal/discrimination issues if the group charter only allowed
>>>> English posts?
>>>
>>> UKLM will only accept posts written in English. Firstly because
>>> it's the lingua franca in our UK context and secondly because the
>>> moderators do not have the capacity to deal with Gaelic, Greek or
>>> Gujarati.
>>
>> But that's contrary to the UKLM Charter, which I quote directly:
>>
>> "Contributors are permitted to express strong disagreement using
>> whatever language they wish"!
>
> Good point, though you're actually quoting from the moderation policy
> rather than the charter. An amendment to the policy will be required
> if we start to see foreign language posts, nicht wahr?
The overriding question is whether rejecting any posts in a language
> On 15/3/13 09:05, Norman Wells wrote:
>> Steve Walker wrote:
>>> "Echo Nancy" <e...@privacy.net> wrote in message
>>> news:2PidnZzuX_y5id_M...@giganews.com...
>>>> Would it be OK for the moderators of a UK newsgroup reject a post
>>>> purely because it was written in Welsh? Would it raise any
>>>> legal/discrimination issues if the group charter only allowed
>>>> English posts?
>>>
>>> UKLM will only accept posts written in English. Firstly because
>>> it's the lingua franca in our UK context and secondly because the
>>> moderators do not have the capacity to deal with Gaelic, Greek or
>>> Gujarati.
>>
>> But that's contrary to the UKLM Charter, which I quote directly:
>>
>> "Contributors are permitted to express strong disagreement using
>> whatever language they wish"!
>
> Good point, though you're actually quoting from the moderation policy
> rather than the charter. An amendment to the policy will be required
> if we start to see foreign language posts, nicht wahr?
other than English, even if contained in a revised policy, would be
unlawful discrimination and/or suppression of freedom of expression as
enshrined in British law. On the face of it, it would be. Is there any
proper legal argument that it wouldn't?
In the meantime of course, if moderators are unwilling to apply the
current stated moderation policy, are they fit to moderate the group?
David McNeish
Mar 15, 2013, 1:15:02 PM3/15/13
to
On Mar 15, 12:20 pm, Jethro_uk <jethro...@hotmailbin.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Mar 2013 09:05:02 +0000, Norman Wells wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Mar 2013 09:05:02 +0000, Norman Wells wrote:
> > There is also of course the question of Article 10 of the European
> > Convention on Human Rights concerning freedom of expression. Does not
> > discrimination on the grounds of language infringe that?
>
> > Convention on Human Rights concerning freedom of expression. Does not
> > discrimination on the grounds of language infringe that?
>
> Only when done by the state.
And even then, I doubt it means that the state has to deal with you in
the language of your choosing. Try insisting on conducting a court
case in Welsh, for example.
I expect there's been some caselaw on this, perhaps in one of the more
multilingual member states.
Pedt
Mar 15, 2013, 12:55:01 PM3/15/13
to
In message <OtSdnU1BSttupd7M...@eclipse.net.uk>, at
15:10:01 on Fri, 15 Mar 2013, Andy Champ <no....@nospam.invalid>
>> languages0 >
"Absorptivity of air the tube printed style of writing the bear which
grows with the people to the propulsion flag which is not aim of force
inside is born in my car, it is."
I think the mods would need a new rejection message: Incomprehensible :)
--
Pedt
15:10:01 on Fri, 15 Mar 2013, Andy Champ <no....@nospam.invalid>
>My hovercraft is full of eels.
Chucking that phrase into Systrans for a few languages, it came up with
"Absorptivity of air the tube printed style of writing the bear which
grows with the people to the propulsion flag which is not aim of force
inside is born in my car, it is."
I think the mods would need a new rejection message: Incomprehensible :)
--
Pedt
Percy Picacity
Mar 15, 2013, 1:20:02 PM3/15/13
to
governing equal access to Usenet the rest of us can safely ignore that
requirement.
--
Percy Picacity
Message has been deleted
The Todal
Mar 15, 2013, 1:25:03 PM3/15/13
to
so to get a decision from the ECHR.
>
> In the meantime of course, if moderators are unwilling to apply the
> current stated moderation policy, are they fit to moderate the group?
suppose all aspects of moderation policy necessarily have to be in writing.
The Todal
Mar 15, 2013, 1:30:03 PM3/15/13
to
below, all court papers issued in Wales seem to be in both languages.
Welsh Language Act 1993 (c.38)
Case: Practice Direction (UT: First-tier and Upper Tribunals: Welsh
Language)
Held: Practice Direction issued. The Senior President of Tribunals
issued a Practice Direction to reflect the principle of the Welsh
Language Act 1993 that, in the administration of justice in Wales, the
English and Welsh languages should be treated on an equal basis. The
Practice Direction set out the procedures for use of the Welsh language,
including notification of use, the use of interpreters and translation
facilities, and the swearing of witnesses.
Court: (UT) Upper Tribunal
Judge: Carnwath, L.J. (SP)
Judgment date: October 30, 2008
Bob
Mar 15, 2013, 2:10:02 PM3/15/13
to
> Under the Convention, the state is required to "secure to everyone within
> their jurisdiction the rights and freedoms defined". I think that is
> regardless of who seeks to curtail them. Don't you?
But until the UK state actually fulfiils its obligation to make laws
governing equal access to Usenet the rest of us can safely ignore that
requirement.
---------------------
> their jurisdiction the rights and freedoms defined". I think that is
> regardless of who seeks to curtail them. Don't you?
But until the UK state actually fulfiils its obligation to make laws
governing equal access to Usenet the rest of us can safely ignore that
requirement.
Did I miss a government acknowledgement of an obligation to provide equal
access to Usenet?
Stuart A. Bronstein
Mar 15, 2013, 3:10:01 PM3/15/13
to
Stuart A. Bronstein
Mar 15, 2013, 3:15:01 PM3/15/13
to
"Norman Wells" <h...@unseen.ac.am> wrote:
> The overriding question is whether rejecting any posts in a
> language other than English, even if contained in a revised
> policy, would be unlawful discrimination and/or suppression of
> freedom of expression as enshrined in British law. On the face
> of it, it would be. Is there any proper legal argument that it
> wouldn't?
Say you were walking down the street and a stranger stopped you to
> The overriding question is whether rejecting any posts in a
> language other than English, even if contained in a revised
> policy, would be unlawful discrimination and/or suppression of
> freedom of expression as enshrined in British law. On the face
> of it, it would be. Is there any proper legal argument that it
> wouldn't?
ask the time. But he asked you in a language you didn't understand,
so you had no idea what he was talking about. Is it unlawful for you
to ignore him or not to tell him the time?
--
Stu
http://DownToEarthLawyer.com
Roger Dewhurst
Mar 15, 2013, 2:25:02 PM3/15/13
to
On Mar 15, 8:45 pm, F Murtz <hagg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Stuart A. Bronstein wrote:
> > Fredxx <fre...@nospam.com> wrote:
> >> the official primary language being spoken. If not there is
> >> probably a greater case for Polish to be catered for here.
>
> > Or reverse Polish.
>
> Not a mathematical group.
Can one buy, these days, a calculator using reverse polish notation?
> Stuart A. Bronstein wrote:
> > Fredxx <fre...@nospam.com> wrote:
> >> Echo Nancy wrote:
>
> >>> Would it be OK for the moderators of a UK newsgroup reject a
> >>> post purely because it was written in Welsh? Would it raise any
> >>> legal/discrimination issues if the group charter only allowed
> >>> English posts?
>
> >> This is a UK moderated group, so one would expect/hope to see
>
> >>> Would it be OK for the moderators of a UK newsgroup reject a
> >>> post purely because it was written in Welsh? Would it raise any
> >>> legal/discrimination issues if the group charter only allowed
> >>> English posts?
>
> >> the official primary language being spoken. If not there is
> >> probably a greater case for Polish to be catered for here.
>
> > Or reverse Polish.
>
> Not a mathematical group.
Can one buy, these days, a calculator using reverse polish notation?
Norman Wells
Mar 15, 2013, 2:50:02 PM3/15/13
to
> But it could take ten years
> or so to get a decision from the ECHR.
all of that time, and the sanctions imposed at the end would doubtless
take the whole period into account. It's not a breathing space in which
everyone can ignore it, but potentially prolonged criminality.
>> In the meantime of course, if moderators are unwilling to apply the
>> current stated moderation policy, are they fit to moderate the group?
>
> Not unless the current stated moderation policy is changed. And I
> don't suppose all aspects of moderation policy necessarily have to be
> in writing.
keep and publish regularly a detailed policy document detailing how
moderation is currently performed". The word "shall" means it is
compulsory. The word "detailed" means that it should cover all aspects.
Norman Wells
Mar 15, 2013, 3:00:04 PM3/15/13
to
August West wrote:
> policy would be perectly acceptable, as it is not discrimination
> against a person, or group of people, on the basis of a protected
> characteristic.
You should read Section 19 of the Equality Act 2000 in association with
Section 4. It provides that indirect discrimination is just as culpable
as direct discrimination. If you discriminate against someone for
example on the basis of the language he speaks, you are very likely
indirectly discriminating against him on the basis of his nationality or
race.
>> and/or suppression of freedom of expression as enshrined in British
>> law.
>
> No, it would not be. Nobody is under any obligation to publish or
> promulgate the opinions or writings of others.
You have to give them equal opportunity, and you are forbidden from
discriminating against them on the basis of nationality or race.
>> Is there any proper legal argument that it wouldn't?
>
> Yes. See above.
I don't see it anywhere actually.
> The entity calling itself Norman Wells wrote:
>>
>> The overriding question is whether rejecting any posts in a language
>> other than English, even if contained in a revised policy, would be
>> unlawful discrimination
>
> It is selection on the basis of use of a single language. Such a
>>
>> The overriding question is whether rejecting any posts in a language
>> other than English, even if contained in a revised policy, would be
>> unlawful discrimination
>
> policy would be perectly acceptable, as it is not discrimination
> against a person, or group of people, on the basis of a protected
> characteristic.
You should read Section 19 of the Equality Act 2000 in association with
Section 4. It provides that indirect discrimination is just as culpable
as direct discrimination. If you discriminate against someone for
example on the basis of the language he speaks, you are very likely
indirectly discriminating against him on the basis of his nationality or
race.
>> and/or suppression of freedom of expression as enshrined in British
>> law.
>
> promulgate the opinions or writings of others.
You have to give them equal opportunity, and you are forbidden from
discriminating against them on the basis of nationality or race.
>> Is there any proper legal argument that it wouldn't?
>
I don't see it anywhere actually.
Stuart A. Bronstein
Mar 15, 2013, 3:05:02 PM3/15/13
to
equal access to each and every usenet newsgroup? There are
newsgroups in many languages - should each be required to have a
translator?
Additionally, the work of the moderators is completely as
volunteers. Is someone who is a volunteer also required to spend
equal time volunteering for each and every possible interest
community if he wants to volunteer for anyone at all?
--
Stu
http://DownToEarthLawyer.com
Norman Wells
Mar 15, 2013, 3:25:02 PM3/15/13
to
then? If it matters, UKLM is the provision of a service. But some
Acts, like the Equality Act 2010, are completely general in their
application.
Norman Wells
Mar 15, 2013, 3:30:03 PM3/15/13
to
question in English. I am not obliged by legislation or otherwise to
tell anyone the time on request, I don't advertise that I do, I don't
offer it as a service, and I'm not discriminating against anyone if I
choose not to.
Janet
Mar 15, 2013, 3:45:02 PM3/15/13
to
In article <1kzry64.fc86eu1wnokkiN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk>, %steve%
@malloc.co.uk says...
> there's no onus on anyone to answer in Welsh or at all.
>
> There's also, AFAIK no imperative on the moderators to approve it within
> a particular time limit and it would seem reasonable for them to not
> approve the post until either they learn Welsh, accept a mechanical
> translation or get a human being to read it to them.
I suggest they remove every alternate word before publication to halve
the risk of anything unsuitable appearing on the group.
Janet
@malloc.co.uk says...
>
> Echo Nancy <e...@privacy.net> wrote:
>
> > Would it be OK for the moderators of a UK newsgroup reject a post purely
> > because it was written in Welsh? Would it raise any legal/discrimination
> > issues if the group charter only allowed English posts?
>
> I can't see any problem with posting an article in Welsh. Of course
> Echo Nancy <e...@privacy.net> wrote:
>
> > Would it be OK for the moderators of a UK newsgroup reject a post purely
> > because it was written in Welsh? Would it raise any legal/discrimination
> > issues if the group charter only allowed English posts?
>
> there's no onus on anyone to answer in Welsh or at all.
>
> There's also, AFAIK no imperative on the moderators to approve it within
> a particular time limit and it would seem reasonable for them to not
> approve the post until either they learn Welsh, accept a mechanical
> translation or get a human being to read it to them.
I suggest they remove every alternate word before publication to halve
the risk of anything unsuitable appearing on the group.
Janet
Roger Dewhurst
Mar 15, 2013, 2:25:02 PM3/15/13
to
On Mar 15, 10:40 am, Alex <no_alexis_collect...@mailcatch.com> wrote:
> Roger Dewhurst wrote:
> >many as possible, can read the post. Those that post in a language
> >that cannot be understood by most of the readers may well need to see
> >a shrink!
>
> What if the poster intended that, primarily, their message was
> understood by Welsh speakers?
>
> --
> Alexis
> "The best translator is one who translates somebody’s silence."
Surely then that person would post in a welsh newsgroup?
> Roger Dewhurst wrote:
> >On Mar 15, 7:20 am, Echo Nancy <e...@privacy.net> wrote:
> >> Would it be OK for the moderators of a UK newsgroup reject a post purely
> >> because it was written in Welsh? Would it raise any legal/discrimination
> >> issues if the group charter only allowed English posts?
>
> >Most people post to newsgroups intending that others, generally as
> >> Would it be OK for the moderators of a UK newsgroup reject a post purely
> >> because it was written in Welsh? Would it raise any legal/discrimination
> >> issues if the group charter only allowed English posts?
>
> >many as possible, can read the post. Those that post in a language
> >that cannot be understood by most of the readers may well need to see
> >a shrink!
>
> What if the poster intended that, primarily, their message was
> understood by Welsh speakers?
>
> --
> Alexis
> "The best translator is one who translates somebody’s silence."
Surely then that person would post in a welsh newsgroup?
Roger Dewhurst
Mar 15, 2013, 2:30:04 PM3/15/13
to
On Mar 16, 1:35 am, August West <aug...@kororaa.com> wrote:
> characterisic, in this case nationaity or national origin, in which case
> it is illegal discriminaion done by anyone, under the Equality Act
> 2010. (S.9: "Race (1) Race includes— (a) colour; (b) nationality; (c)
> ethnic or national origins.").
>
> --
> send lawyers, guns, and money
Does the law really include such a daft, and totally wrong, definition
of race?
> The entity calling itself Jethro_uk wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Fri, 15 Mar 2013 09:05:02 +0000, Norman Wells wrote:
>
> >> There is also of course the question of Article 10 of the European
> >> Convention on Human Rights concerning freedom of expression. Does not
> >> discrimination on the grounds of language infringe that?
>
> > Only when done by the state.
>
> Although a language could be viewed as the expression of a protected
>
>
>
> > On Fri, 15 Mar 2013 09:05:02 +0000, Norman Wells wrote:
>
> >> There is also of course the question of Article 10 of the European
> >> Convention on Human Rights concerning freedom of expression. Does not
> >> discrimination on the grounds of language infringe that?
>
> > Only when done by the state.
>
> characterisic, in this case nationaity or national origin, in which case
> it is illegal discriminaion done by anyone, under the Equality Act
> 2010. (S.9: "Race (1) Race includes— (a) colour; (b) nationality; (c)
> ethnic or national origins.").
>
> --
> send lawyers, guns, and money
Does the law really include such a daft, and totally wrong, definition
of race?
John Briggs
Mar 15, 2013, 4:20:02 PM3/15/13
to
--
John Briggs
Martin
Mar 15, 2013, 4:20:02 PM3/15/13
to
On 15/03/2013 18:25, Roger Dewhurst wrote:
they always did. Cost me an arm and a leg mind :)
Echo Nancy
Mar 15, 2013, 4:40:06 PM3/15/13
to
On Fri, 15 Mar 2013 07:35:02 +0000, Dr Zoidberg wrote:
> "Echo Nancy" <e...@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:2PidnZzuX_y5id_M...@giganews.com...
> "Echo Nancy" <e...@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:2PidnZzuX_y5id_M...@giganews.com...
>> Would it be OK for the moderators of a UK newsgroup reject a post
>> purely because it was written in Welsh?
>
> Yes, as it's very unlikely it could be read and understood. The same
>> purely because it was written in Welsh?
>
> applies for any other foreign language.
Welsh is not a foreign language in the UK.
I understand the practicalities of moderating a post in [what is in
reality] a minority language, but I think that if a group presents itself
as a UK group, then all of the UK should be allowed to post in the
language of their daily life.
Message has been deleted
John Briggs
Mar 15, 2013, 5:35:09 PM3/15/13
to
On 15/03/2013 18:30, Roger Dewhurst wrote:
> On Mar 16, 1:35 am, August West <aug...@kororaa.com> wrote:
>> The entity calling itself Jethro_uk wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Fri, 15 Mar 2013 09:05:02 +0000, Norman Wells wrote:
>>
>>>> There is also of course the question of Article 10 of the European
>>>> Convention on Human Rights concerning freedom of expression. Does not
>>>> discrimination on the grounds of language infringe that?
>>
>>> Only when done by the state.
>>
>> Although a language could be viewed as the expression of a protected
>> characterisic, in this case nationaity or national origin, in which case
>> it is illegal discriminaion done by anyone, under the Equality Act
>> 2010. (S.9: "Race (1) Race includes— (a) colour; (b) nationality; (c)
>> ethnic or national origins.").
>
> On Mar 16, 1:35 am, August West <aug...@kororaa.com> wrote:
>> The entity calling itself Jethro_uk wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Fri, 15 Mar 2013 09:05:02 +0000, Norman Wells wrote:
>>
>>>> There is also of course the question of Article 10 of the European
>>>> Convention on Human Rights concerning freedom of expression. Does not
>>>> discrimination on the grounds of language infringe that?
>>
>>> Only when done by the state.
>>
>> Although a language could be viewed as the expression of a protected
>> characterisic, in this case nationaity or national origin, in which case
>> it is illegal discriminaion done by anyone, under the Equality Act
>> 2010. (S.9: "Race (1) Race includes— (a) colour; (b) nationality; (c)
>> ethnic or national origins.").
>
> Does the law really include such a daft, and totally wrong, definition
> of race?
What would you consider a "correct" definition?
> of race?
--
John Briggs
Owain
Mar 15, 2013, 7:10:01 PM3/15/13
to
On Mar 15, 7:45 pm, Janet wrote:
> I suggest they remove every alternate word before publication to halve
> the risk of anything unsuitable appearing on the group.
That could be embarrassing if it removed a "not"
> I suggest they remove every alternate word before publication to halve
> the risk of anything unsuitable appearing on the group.
Owain
Message has been deleted
Andy Champ
Mar 15, 2013, 5:40:02 PM3/15/13
to
>> My hovercraft is full of eels.
>
> Chucking that phrase into Systrans for a few languages, it came up with
>
> "Absorptivity of air the tube printed style of writing the bear which
> grows with the people to the propulsion flag which is not aim of force
> inside is born in my car, it is."
>
> I think the mods would need a new rejection message: Incomprehensible :)
>
Look for Monty Python's Hungarian Phrasebook sketch. Caution: Contains
>
> Chucking that phrase into Systrans for a few languages, it came up with
>
> "Absorptivity of air the tube printed style of writing the bear which
> grows with the people to the propulsion flag which is not aim of force
> inside is born in my car, it is."
>
> I think the mods would need a new rejection message: Incomprehensible :)
>
indelicate phrases.
Andy
--
Mon aeroglisseur est plein d'anguilles
Alex
Mar 15, 2013, 5:55:01 PM3/15/13
to
speaker was making a bit of a fool of, let's say, himself in this
group and a friend of his (also a Welsh speaker as luck would have it)
wanted to advise him but not embarrass him by making it too obvious in
front of the groups readers? They might want to send a message in
Welsh - it would be more likely to bring him to his senses as well.
--
Alexis
"My abilities are only limited by those who test them."
Steve Walker
Mar 15, 2013, 6:35:02 PM3/15/13
to
news:eOednZdF1r30G97M...@giganews.com...
Bengali shopkeepers from Southall are welcome here, as are Gaelic software
developers and Turkish taxi drivers. But we cannot accommodate their
preferred languages. Sorry, but it's wholly impracticable.
developers and Turkish taxi drivers. But we cannot accommodate their
preferred languages. Sorry, but it's wholly impracticable.
Szymon von Ulezalka
Mar 15, 2013, 7:05:01 PM3/15/13
to
> Dit is heeltemal onredelik in my beskeie mening.Hoekom moet moderators
> leer 'n nuwe taal aan te pas 'n paar random bydraer?
>
> As die bydraer regtig net een bepaalde taal praat, hy kan altyd gebruik
> Google Translate sy woorde van wysheid te lewer in 'n soort van Engels
> egter onakkuraat mag wees. As jy wil weet hoe verkeerd, probeer vertaal
> dit weer terug.
Zaiste, Walijski kumie mój, dobrze dzisiaj prawisz...
;)
> leer 'n nuwe taal aan te pas 'n paar random bydraer?
>
> As die bydraer regtig net een bepaalde taal praat, hy kan altyd gebruik
> Google Translate sy woorde van wysheid te lewer in 'n soort van Engels
> egter onakkuraat mag wees. As jy wil weet hoe verkeerd, probeer vertaal
> dit weer terug.
Zaiste, Walijski kumie mój, dobrze dzisiaj prawisz...
;)
the Omrud
Mar 15, 2013, 7:15:01 PM3/15/13
to
On 15/03/2013 18:25, Roger Dewhurst wrote:
phone, which can be switched into reverse Polish.
--
David
Message has been deleted
Paul Rudin
Mar 16, 2013, 3:15:02 AM3/16/13
to
Roger Dewhurst <dewhurs...@gmail.com> writes:
> Can one buy, these days, a calculator using reverse polish notation?
Sure - HP make them and some sell quite well. Many years ago when I
> Can one buy, these days, a calculator using reverse polish notation?
worked in the City "everyone" had an HP12C and they are still widely
used, apparently.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP-12C
I was actually thinking about buying a calculator the other day... there
are times when I don't want to get out the laptop (or don't have it with
me), but the calculator on my smartphone isn't great.
Roland Perry
Mar 16, 2013, 4:10:01 AM3/16/13
to
In message
<36ce372f-f008-440f...@m9g2000pby.googlegroups.com>, at
18:25:02 on Fri, 15 Mar 2013, Roger Dewhurst <dewhurs...@gmail.com>
remarked:
>Can one buy, these days, a calculator using reverse polish notation?
"I calculator buy". Yes, that works.
--
Roland Perry
<36ce372f-f008-440f...@m9g2000pby.googlegroups.com>, at
18:25:02 on Fri, 15 Mar 2013, Roger Dewhurst <dewhurs...@gmail.com>
remarked:
>Can one buy, these days, a calculator using reverse polish notation?
--
Roland Perry
Neil Williams
Mar 16, 2013, 5:10:02 AM3/16/13
to
Paul Rudin <paul....@rudin.co.uk> wrote:
> I was actually thinking about buying a calculator the other day... there
> are times when I don't want to get out the laptop (or don't have it with
> me), but the calculator on my smartphone isn't great.
There are loads of calculator apps out there...
> I was actually thinking about buying a calculator the other day... there
> are times when I don't want to get out the laptop (or don't have it with
> me), but the calculator on my smartphone isn't great.
Neil
--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK. Put first name before the at to reply.
Norman Wells
Mar 16, 2013, 4:45:02 AM3/16/13
to
Steve Walker wrote:
> "Echo Nancy" <e...@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:eOednZdF1r30G97M...@giganews.com...
>> On Fri, 15 Mar 2013 07:35:02 +0000, Dr Zoidberg wrote:
>>
>>> "Echo Nancy" <e...@privacy.net> wrote in message
>>> news:2PidnZzuX_y5id_M...@giganews.com...
>>>> Would it be OK for the moderators of a UK newsgroup reject a post
>>>> purely because it was written in Welsh?
>>>
>>> Yes, as it's very unlikely it could be read and understood. The same
>>> applies for any other foreign language.
>>
>> Welsh is not a foreign language in the UK.
>>
>> I understand the practicalities of moderating a post in [what is in
>> reality] a minority language, but I think that if a group presents
>> itself as a UK group, then all of the UK should be allowed to post
>> in the language of their daily life.
>
> Bengali shopkeepers from Southall are welcome here, as are Gaelic
> software developers and Turkish taxi drivers. But we cannot
> accommodate their preferred languages. Sorry, but it's wholly
> impracticable.
Does your convenience trump the law then?
> "Echo Nancy" <e...@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:eOednZdF1r30G97M...@giganews.com...
>> On Fri, 15 Mar 2013 07:35:02 +0000, Dr Zoidberg wrote:
>>
>>> "Echo Nancy" <e...@privacy.net> wrote in message
>>> news:2PidnZzuX_y5id_M...@giganews.com...
>>>> Would it be OK for the moderators of a UK newsgroup reject a post
>>>> purely because it was written in Welsh?
>>>
>>> Yes, as it's very unlikely it could be read and understood. The same
>>> applies for any other foreign language.
>>
>> Welsh is not a foreign language in the UK.
>>
>> I understand the practicalities of moderating a post in [what is in
>> reality] a minority language, but I think that if a group presents
>> itself as a UK group, then all of the UK should be allowed to post
>> in the language of their daily life.
>
> Bengali shopkeepers from Southall are welcome here, as are Gaelic
> software developers and Turkish taxi drivers. But we cannot
> accommodate their preferred languages. Sorry, but it's wholly
> impracticable.
Chris R
Mar 16, 2013, 5:35:02 AM3/16/13
to
>
>
> "Alex" wrote in message news:ki056i$f9b$1...@dont-email.me...
translation immediately.
--
Chris R
Percy Picacity
Mar 16, 2013, 8:20:01 AM3/16/13
to
On 2013-03-16 00:05:02 +0000, Jethro_uk said:
> On Fri, 15 Mar 2013 21:35:09 +0000, John Briggs wrote:
>
>> On 15/03/2013 18:30, Roger Dewhurst wrote:
>>> On Mar 16, 1:35 am, August West <aug...@kororaa.com> wrote:
>>>> The entity calling itself Jethro_uk wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 15 Mar 2013 09:05:02 +0000, Norman Wells wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> There is also of course the question of Article 10 of the European
>>>>>> Convention on Human Rights concerning freedom of expression. Does
>>>>>> not discrimination on the grounds of language infringe that?
>>>>
>>>>> Only when done by the state.
>>>>
>>>> Although a language could be viewed as the expression of a protected
>>>> characterisic, in this case nationaity or national origin, in which
>>>> case it is illegal discriminaion done by anyone, under the Equality
>>>> Act 2010. (S.9: "Race (1) Race include - (a) colour; (b) nationality;
Which does not (for those missing the import of the smiley) define more
than one race of currently-existing humanity.
--
Percy Picacity
> On Fri, 15 Mar 2013 21:35:09 +0000, John Briggs wrote:
>
>> On 15/03/2013 18:30, Roger Dewhurst wrote:
>>> On Mar 16, 1:35 am, August West <aug...@kororaa.com> wrote:
>>>> The entity calling itself Jethro_uk wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 15 Mar 2013 09:05:02 +0000, Norman Wells wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> There is also of course the question of Article 10 of the European
>>>>>> Convention on Human Rights concerning freedom of expression. Does
>>>>>> not discrimination on the grounds of language infringe that?
>>>>
>>>>> Only when done by the state.
>>>>
>>>> Although a language could be viewed as the expression of a protected
>>>> characterisic, in this case nationaity or national origin, in which
>>>> case it is illegal discriminaion done by anyone, under the Equality
>>>> (c) ethnic or national origins.").
>>>
>>> Does the law really include such a daft, and totally wrong, definition
>>> of race?
>>
>> What would you consider a "correct" definition?
>
> The scientific one ;) ?
>>>
>>> Does the law really include such a daft, and totally wrong, definition
>>> of race?
>>
>> What would you consider a "correct" definition?
>
Which does not (for those missing the import of the smiley) define more
than one race of currently-existing humanity.
--
Percy Picacity
Pedt
Mar 16, 2013, 5:35:09 AM3/16/13
to
In message <ggW0t.42226$wa4....@fx18.fr7>, at 08:45:02 on Sat, 16 Mar
2013, Norman Wells <h...@unseen.ac.am>
If you were an English speaking fishmonger would you learn Tosk and Gheg
in case an Albanian wandered in to buy a piece of halibut?
--
Pedt
2013, Norman Wells <h...@unseen.ac.am>
in case an Albanian wandered in to buy a piece of halibut?
--
Pedt
Alex
Mar 16, 2013, 6:00:05 AM3/16/13
to
then.
--
Alexis
"Someone still loves you." - Freddie Mercury
Lordgnome
Mar 16, 2013, 6:25:01 AM3/16/13
to
On 15/03/2013 17:15, David McNeish wrote:
>
> And even then, I doubt it means that the state has to deal with you in
> the language of your choosing. Try insisting on conducting a court
> case in Welsh, for example.
>
As I understand things you can - at least in Wales, and why not if it
is the participant's first language?
A retired judge told me how he had to conduct a case in Welsh. He was
fluent in English & Welsh, but they had a court interpreter and at one
stage the judge had to correct the interpreter.
He was amused later, to hear the two protagonists in the gents, when
one said "You'd better be careful what you say - the old bugger speaks
Welsh"!
Les.
>
> And even then, I doubt it means that the state has to deal with you in
> the language of your choosing. Try insisting on conducting a court
> case in Welsh, for example.
>
As I understand things you can - at least in Wales, and why not if it
is the participant's first language?
A retired judge told me how he had to conduct a case in Welsh. He was
fluent in English & Welsh, but they had a court interpreter and at one
stage the judge had to correct the interpreter.
He was amused later, to hear the two protagonists in the gents, when
one said "You'd better be careful what you say - the old bugger speaks
Welsh"!
Les.
Message has been deleted
Steve Walker
Mar 16, 2013, 8:15:03 AM3/16/13
to
"Alex" <no_alexis_...@mailcatch.com> wrote in message
news:ki056i$f9b$1...@dont-email.me...
> Alright then, well, may I have another go, please? What if a Welsh
> speaker was making a bit of a fool of, let's say, himself in this
> group and a friend of his (also a Welsh speaker as luck would have it)
> wanted to advise him but not embarrass him by making it too obvious in
> front of the groups readers? They might want to send a message in
> Welsh - it would be more likely to bring him to his senses as well.
to burn his house down?
We wouldn't want our posters exchanging messages in languages unknown to the
moderators, because we couldn't be assured that this facility would be
exercised benevolently.
steve robinson
Mar 16, 2013, 8:25:01 AM3/16/13
to
services its not a requirement to have other language text available
infact it could cause complete confusion if this was the case.
If the group was welsh legal moderated then i would be slight;y
different.
steve robinson
Mar 16, 2013, 8:35:02 AM3/16/13
to
Francis Davey
Mar 16, 2013, 8:45:02 AM3/16/13
to
Le samedi 16 mars 2013 08:45:02 UTC, Norman Wells a écrit :
>
> Does your convenience trump the law then?
It may do.
>
> Does your convenience trump the law then?
This is an RTFM. Read the Equality Act 2010.
Language is not a protected characteristic, but discrimination on grounds of language may well be indirect discrimination on grounds of race, at least in the expanded sense which that word is used in discrimination law.
Indirect discrimination is justifiable. The test is whether it is a proportionate means to a legitimate end.
The provision of a free to users moderated newsgroup is undoubtedly a legitimate end. The use of volunteer moderators and a restriction to the languages they know seems to me a typical example of "proportionate means".
Indeed if I wanted (say) to run an open discussion group where it was important that everyone should understand everyone else (UKLM is not necessarily this - I am treating a hypothetical case) I might decide that a single language should be used in order to permit that discussion to take place. That seems to me entirely justifiable, even if I forbid the use of other languages in group.
The CJEU uses French as its working language. If I were appointed a judge of the CJEU (unlikely of course though that may be) it would not be open to me to complain that I could not speak French. I would have to learn it or refuse the appointment.
So I think this is a non-starter.
The HRA 1998 is also a red herring. Those who were talking about it should (i) read it (ii) learn about the difference between vertical and horizontal effect and then read up on the "knight's move". This is hardly the place for public law 101.
Francis
Message has been deleted
Alex
Mar 16, 2013, 9:40:02 AM3/16/13
to
without moderation - and if the moderators were unable to translate a
post, it should be readily accepted that this was reason enough for it
not to be approved.
I'm not looking to make more work for the moderators... honest.
--
Alexis
"You can give without saying anything, but when receiving say something."
Norman Wells
Mar 16, 2013, 9:55:01 AM3/16/13
to
Francis Davey wrote:
> Le samedi 16 mars 2013 08:45:02 UTC, Norman Wells a écrit :
>>
>> Does your convenience trump the law then?
>
> It may do.
>
> This is an RTFM. Read the Equality Act 2010.
Yes, I have, thank you. I've even referred to specific Sections of it
> Le samedi 16 mars 2013 08:45:02 UTC, Norman Wells a écrit :
>>
>> Does your convenience trump the law then?
>
> It may do.
>
> This is an RTFM. Read the Equality Act 2010.
in this thread.
> Language is not a protected characteristic, but discrimination on
> grounds of language may well be indirect discrimination on grounds of
> race, at least in the expanded sense which that word is used in
> discrimination law.
>
> Indirect discrimination is justifiable.
> The test is whether it is a proportionate means to a legitimate end.
> The provision of a free to users moderated newsgroup is undoubtedly a
> legitimate end. The use of volunteer moderators and a restriction to
> the languages they know seems to me a typical example of
> "proportionate means".
interpretation of the phrase 'proportionate means to a legitimate end',
but it's actually such a vague and imprecise expression that it's quite
capable of being interpreted any way anyone chooses. The provision of
the newsgroup itself may well be a legitimate end. The question,
however, is whether, in the light of legislation clearly intended to
eliminate or substantially reduce discrimination and provide equality of
treatment for those of different nationalities, the provision of a
_single language_ newsgroup is a legitimate end. Ask that question and
you may well end up with a different answer.
> Indeed if I wanted (say) to run an open discussion group where it was
> important that everyone should understand everyone else (UKLM is not
> necessarily this - I am treating a hypothetical case) I might decide
> that a single language should be used in order to permit that
> discussion to take place. That seems to me entirely justifiable, even
> if I forbid the use of other languages in group.
it applies to an open-access forum which has no membership but is and
always has been open to anyone. UKLM seems to me to be the provision of
a service of the sort that the law would want in principle be available
on an equal footing to all.
> The CJEU uses French as its working language. If I were appointed a
> judge of the CJEU (unlikely of course though that may be) it would
> not be open to me to complain that I could not speak French. I would
> have to learn it or refuse the appointment.
of the language of the applicant would surely be illegal as well as
wholly undesirable, as I'm sure you would agree. In that sense, it's no
different to UKLM.
> So I think this is a non-starter.
Norman Wells
Mar 16, 2013, 9:55:01 AM3/16/13
to
Chris R
Mar 16, 2013, 11:15:02 AM3/16/13
to
>
>
> "August West" wrote in message news:87fvzv7...@news2.kororaa.com...
>
>
> The entity calling itself Lordgnome wrote:
> >
> > On 15/03/2013 17:15, David McNeish wrote:
> Leaving Welsh in Wales aside, as that's a different matter, given its
>
> The entity calling itself Lordgnome wrote:
> >
> > On 15/03/2013 17:15, David McNeish wrote:
> status in Wales, you can give your oral evidence in your preferred
> language (if you're not sufficiently fluent in English), and the court
> will provide intepretation. That's somewhat diferent from "conducting a
> court case in <LANGUAGE>". Agents and advocates are required to address
> the court in English.
>
I remember years ago being told how a typical criminal case would run in
Luxembourg. The defendant would give evidence in Luxemburgish, the language
of the lower orders. The lawyers would address the court in French. And the
judge would deliver the verdict in the language of government, German.
--
Chris R
Francis Davey
Mar 16, 2013, 11:20:02 AM3/16/13
to
Le samedi 16 mars 2013 13:55:01 UTC, Norman Wells a écrit :
>
> Well, that's _your_ subjective judgement based on your personal
>
> interpretation of the phrase 'proportionate means to a legitimate end',
Well, its not pulled out of thing air. It builds on considerable European jurisprudence on the concept of proportionality and there is a large body of case law on what it does mean.
>
> Well, that's _your_ subjective judgement based on your personal
>
> interpretation of the phrase 'proportionate means to a legitimate end',
>
> but it's actually such a vague and imprecise expression that it's quite
>
> capable of being interpreted any way anyone chooses. The provision of
>
> the newsgroup itself may well be a legitimate end. The question,
>
> however, is whether, in the light of legislation clearly intended to
>
> eliminate or substantially reduce discrimination and provide equality of
>
> treatment for those of different nationalities, the provision of a
>
> _single language_ newsgroup is a legitimate end. Ask that question and
>
> you may well end up with a different answer.
>
> Quite so. However, preventing access to the Court merely on the basis
>
> of the language of the applicant would surely be illegal as well as
>
> wholly undesirable, as I'm sure you would agree. In that sense, it's no
>
> different to UKLM.
>
Francis
Chris R
Mar 16, 2013, 11:20:02 AM3/16/13
to
> "Norman Wells" wrote in message news:0P_0t.24844$gt1....@fx04.fr7...
understand and to pay for it in Lek?
--
Chris R
Tim Jackson
Mar 16, 2013, 1:05:01 PM3/16/13
to
On Sat, 16 Mar 2013 15:15:02 +0000, Chris R wrote...
> I remember years ago being told how a typical criminal case would run in
> Luxembourg. The defendant would give evidence in Luxemburgish, the language
> of the lower orders. The lawyers would address the court in French. And the
> judge would deliver the verdict in the language of government, German.
I appear at hearings at the European Patent Office (EPO) in connection
with formal opposition proceedings against patents which they have
granted.
The official languages of the EPO are English, French and German. EPO
examiners are required to be able to work in all three. Quite often
they might speak more than these three languages, e.g. if they are Dutch
or Spanish or Finnish.
At a hearing, I will speak English and typically my opponent will speak
German (or sometimes French). We will be addressing a panel of three
examiners or three members of an Appeal Board, who will listen in
whichever language we speak. However, when they themselves speak they
will use the "language of the proceedings", which is the language in
which the patent concerned is written (English, French or German).
For the benefit of me and my opponent, simultaneous interpretation is
provided. The interpreters are dealing with esoteric technical subject
matter that they have probably not come across before, and esoteric
legal concepts and arguments. Occasionally there are problems, but
usually they are amazing.
Working in a specialised technical area, I am quite often up against the
same opponents. We know each other and will talk quite happily in
English during a coffee break, but they will still use German in the
hearing itself.
--
Tim Jackson
ne...@timjackson.invalid
(Change '.invalid' to '.plus.com' to reply direct)
> I remember years ago being told how a typical criminal case would run in
> Luxembourg. The defendant would give evidence in Luxemburgish, the language
> of the lower orders. The lawyers would address the court in French. And the
> judge would deliver the verdict in the language of government, German.
with formal opposition proceedings against patents which they have
granted.
The official languages of the EPO are English, French and German. EPO
examiners are required to be able to work in all three. Quite often
they might speak more than these three languages, e.g. if they are Dutch
or Spanish or Finnish.
At a hearing, I will speak English and typically my opponent will speak
German (or sometimes French). We will be addressing a panel of three
examiners or three members of an Appeal Board, who will listen in
whichever language we speak. However, when they themselves speak they
will use the "language of the proceedings", which is the language in
which the patent concerned is written (English, French or German).
For the benefit of me and my opponent, simultaneous interpretation is
provided. The interpreters are dealing with esoteric technical subject
matter that they have probably not come across before, and esoteric
legal concepts and arguments. Occasionally there are problems, but
usually they are amazing.
Working in a specialised technical area, I am quite often up against the
same opponents. We know each other and will talk quite happily in
English during a coffee break, but they will still use German in the
hearing itself.
--
Tim Jackson
ne...@timjackson.invalid
(Change '.invalid' to '.plus.com' to reply direct)
Francis Davey
Mar 16, 2013, 1:35:01 PM3/16/13
to
Le samedi 16 mars 2013 17:05:01 UTC, Tim Jackson a écrit :
>
> At a hearing, I will speak English and typically my opponent will speak
>
> German (or sometimes French). We will be addressing a panel of three
>
> examiners or three members of an Appeal Board, who will listen in
>
> whichever language we speak. However, when they themselves speak they
>
> will use the "language of the proceedings", which is the language in
>
> which the patent concerned is written (English, French or German).
>
>
Exactly my point. Anyone turning up at the EPO and asking to file a patent in Welsh would be shown the door. Any attempt to challenge that via EU or ECHR law (the EPO isn't of course a party to the ECHR and nor could it be) would be given short shrift.
>
> At a hearing, I will speak English and typically my opponent will speak
>
> German (or sometimes French). We will be addressing a panel of three
>
> examiners or three members of an Appeal Board, who will listen in
>
> whichever language we speak. However, when they themselves speak they
>
> will use the "language of the proceedings", which is the language in
>
> which the patent concerned is written (English, French or German).
>
>
Francis
Tim Jackson
Mar 16, 2013, 3:50:02 PM3/16/13
to
On Sat, 16 Mar 2013 17:35:01 +0000, Francis Davey wrote...
> Anyone turning up at the EPO and asking to file a patent in Welsh would be shown the door.
Actually the initial application can be filed in any language. Welsh,
Japanese or Swahili would all be fine. (Not sure about Klingon...)
However, the applicant then has two months to file a translation into
English, French of German, which will become the "language of the
proceedings". Which is of course your point.
During the subsequent procedure, an applicant from an EPO contracting
state with an official language that is not English, French or German
may use that language, but then has to provide a translation (or arrange
interpreters at his own expense if there's a hearing). E.g. an
applicant from Italy or Switzerland can use Italian, but a Japanese
applicant can't use Japanese. The EPO will use the language of the
proceedings.
I'm not sure of the status of Welsh as an official United Kingdom
language. That would determine whether an applicant from the UK could
continue to use Welsh in this way after the initial filing (with a
subsequent translation). However, I note that Welsh is not on the list
of non-EPO languages listed here:
http://www.epo.org/applying/forms-fees/forms/examination.html
which suggests there might be a problem.
> Anyone turning up at the EPO and asking to file a patent in Welsh would be shown the door.
Japanese or Swahili would all be fine. (Not sure about Klingon...)
However, the applicant then has two months to file a translation into
English, French of German, which will become the "language of the
proceedings". Which is of course your point.
During the subsequent procedure, an applicant from an EPO contracting
state with an official language that is not English, French or German
may use that language, but then has to provide a translation (or arrange
interpreters at his own expense if there's a hearing). E.g. an
applicant from Italy or Switzerland can use Italian, but a Japanese
applicant can't use Japanese. The EPO will use the language of the
proceedings.
I'm not sure of the status of Welsh as an official United Kingdom
language. That would determine whether an applicant from the UK could
continue to use Welsh in this way after the initial filing (with a
subsequent translation). However, I note that Welsh is not on the list
of non-EPO languages listed here:
http://www.epo.org/applying/forms-fees/forms/examination.html
which suggests there might be a problem.
Norman Wells
Mar 16, 2013, 1:50:02 PM3/16/13
to
local language, so that's not a relevant consideration. There's no
obligation, however, for anyone to accept payment in a currency that is
not legal tender in the country concerned.
Percy Picacity
Mar 16, 2013, 4:25:02 PM3/16/13
to
I think the question is whether the provision of a single language
newsgroup is a proportionate means! Personally I have no doubt
whatsoever that it is. For somewhat the same reason as ATOS is allowed
to keep a lot of offices with no wheelchair access, as long as some
others not too far away do have such access. Uk.legal apparently
accepts Welsh, and, indeed, all sorts of flavours of gibberish.
--
Percy Picacity
Major Scott
Mar 16, 2013, 4:45:03 PM3/16/13
to
On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 20:50:16 -0000, Andy Champ <no....@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> On 14/03/2013 19:25, Roland Perry wrote:
>>
>> And combining the two, is this sig acceptable/unacceptable/or merely
>> misguided:
>> --
>> Mae'r e-bost hwn ac unrhyw ffeiliau a drosglwyddir gydag ef yn
>> gyfrinachol ac
>> wedi'u bwriadu ar gyfer pwy bynnag y cyfeirir ef ato neu atynt.
>
> Definitely misguided. The chances of the random person the mis-sent mail
> getting to knowing Welsh must be pretty low. And even then it doesn't
> say anything.
>
> BTW I got a mis-sent mail the other day, first time for ages (as opposed
> to a spam that is) - from a solicitor's clerk. Luckily it didn't say
> anything interesting. Now I've gone to look buried in the rubbish in the
> sig is "This email may contain confidential and/or privileged
> information. If you have received it in error please let the sender know
> as soon as possible.". I hadn't noticed!
If the information was interesting, I doubt many people could follow that instruction.
> On 14/03/2013 19:25, Roland Perry wrote:
>>
>> And combining the two, is this sig acceptable/unacceptable/or merely
>> misguided:
>> --
>> Mae'r e-bost hwn ac unrhyw ffeiliau a drosglwyddir gydag ef yn
>> gyfrinachol ac
>> wedi'u bwriadu ar gyfer pwy bynnag y cyfeirir ef ato neu atynt.
>
> Definitely misguided. The chances of the random person the mis-sent mail
> getting to knowing Welsh must be pretty low. And even then it doesn't
> say anything.
>
> BTW I got a mis-sent mail the other day, first time for ages (as opposed
> to a spam that is) - from a solicitor's clerk. Luckily it didn't say
> anything interesting. Now I've gone to look buried in the rubbish in the
> sig is "This email may contain confidential and/or privileged
> information. If you have received it in error please let the sender know
> as soon as possible.". I hadn't noticed!
If the information was interesting, I doubt many people could follow that instruction.
Major Scott
Mar 16, 2013, 4:45:03 PM3/16/13
to
On Fri, 15 Mar 2013 12:40:02 -0000, AnthonyL <nos...@please.invalid> wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 19:25:02 +0000, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk>
>
> Znr'e r-obfg uja np haeulj ssrvyvnh n qebftyjlqqve tlqnt rs la
> tlsevanpuby np jrqv'h ojevnqh ne tlsre cjl olaant l plsrveve rs ngb
> arh nglag
They use ROT 18 and a half in Wales.
> On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 19:25:02 +0000, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> And combining the two, is this sig acceptable/unacceptable/or merely
>> misguided:
>> --
>> Mae'r e-bost hwn ac unrhyw ffeiliau a drosglwyddir gydag ef yn gyfrinachol ac
>> wedi'u bwriadu ar gyfer pwy bynnag y cyfeirir ef ato neu atynt.
>>
>
> I tried that through ROT13 and it didn't come out any the clearer :(
>
>>
>> And combining the two, is this sig acceptable/unacceptable/or merely
>> misguided:
>> --
>> Mae'r e-bost hwn ac unrhyw ffeiliau a drosglwyddir gydag ef yn gyfrinachol ac
>> wedi'u bwriadu ar gyfer pwy bynnag y cyfeirir ef ato neu atynt.
>>
>
>
> Znr'e r-obfg uja np haeulj ssrvyvnh n qebftyjlqqve tlqnt rs la
> tlsevanpuby np jrqv'h ojevnqh ne tlsre cjl olaant l plsrveve rs ngb
> arh nglag
They use ROT 18 and a half in Wales.
Major Scott
Mar 16, 2013, 4:50:01 PM3/16/13
to
On Fri, 15 Mar 2013 16:55:01 -0000, Pedt <pe...@user-unknown.mx2.org.uk> wrote:
> In message <OtSdnU1BSttupd7M...@eclipse.net.uk>, at
> 15:10:01 on Fri, 15 Mar 2013, Andy Champ <no....@nospam.invalid>
>> On 15/03/2013 13:15, The Todal wrote:
>>> And to give the moderators even more fun, one could use Google Translate
>>> to translate a sentence into one language, and from that language into a
>>> succession of other languages.
>>>
>>> or to put that another way...
>>>
>>> Administrators and even more interesting, you can use Google Translate
>>> to translate phrases in one language and that language in the following
>>> languages0 >
>> My hovercraft is full of eels.
>
> Chucking that phrase into Systrans for a few languages, it came up with
>
> "Absorptivity of air the tube printed style of writing the bear which
> grows with the people to the propulsion flag which is not aim of force
> inside is born in my car, it is."
>
> I think the mods would need a new rejection message: Incomprehensible :)
Either you have a really really crap translator, or you put it through about 50 languages.
> In message <OtSdnU1BSttupd7M...@eclipse.net.uk>, at
> 15:10:01 on Fri, 15 Mar 2013, Andy Champ <no....@nospam.invalid>
>> On 15/03/2013 13:15, The Todal wrote:
>>> And to give the moderators even more fun, one could use Google Translate
>>> to translate a sentence into one language, and from that language into a
>>> succession of other languages.
>>>
>>> or to put that another way...
>>>
>>> Administrators and even more interesting, you can use Google Translate
>>> to translate phrases in one language and that language in the following
>>> languages0 >
>> My hovercraft is full of eels.
>
> Chucking that phrase into Systrans for a few languages, it came up with
>
> "Absorptivity of air the tube printed style of writing the bear which
> grows with the people to the propulsion flag which is not aim of force
> inside is born in my car, it is."
>
> I think the mods would need a new rejection message: Incomprehensible :)
Either you have a really really crap translator, or you put it through about 50 languages.
Major Scott
Mar 16, 2013, 4:50:01 PM3/16/13
to
On Fri, 15 Mar 2013 15:10:01 -0000, Andy Champ <no....@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> On 15/03/2013 13:15, The Todal wrote:
>> And to give the moderators even more fun, one could use Google Translate
>> to translate a sentence into one language, and from that language into a
>> succession of other languages.
>>
>> or to put that another way...
>>
>> Administrators and even more interesting, you can use Google Translate
>> to translate phrases in one language and that language in the following
>> languages.
> On 15/03/2013 13:15, The Todal wrote:
>> And to give the moderators even more fun, one could use Google Translate
>> to translate a sentence into one language, and from that language into a
>> succession of other languages.
>>
>> or to put that another way...
>>
>> Administrators and even more interesting, you can use Google Translate
>> to translate phrases in one language and that language in the following
>
> My hovercraft is full of eels.
My epiglottis is full of bees:
> My hovercraft is full of eels.
http://youtu.be/6v4YNkurhLk
Major Scott
Mar 16, 2013, 4:55:02 PM3/16/13
to
On Sat, 16 Mar 2013 08:10:01 -0000, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message
> <36ce372f-f008-440f...@m9g2000pby.googlegroups.com>, at
> 18:25:02 on Fri, 15 Mar 2013, Roger Dewhurst <dewhurs...@gmail.com>
> remarked:
>
>> Can one buy, these days, a calculator using reverse polish notation?
>
> "I calculator buy". Yes, that works.
As confusing as French with their adjectives after the nouns.
> In message
> <36ce372f-f008-440f...@m9g2000pby.googlegroups.com>, at
> 18:25:02 on Fri, 15 Mar 2013, Roger Dewhurst <dewhurs...@gmail.com>
> remarked:
>
>> Can one buy, these days, a calculator using reverse polish notation?
>
> "I calculator buy". Yes, that works.
As confusing as French with their adjectives after the nouns.
Echo Nancy
Mar 16, 2013, 4:55:02 PM3/16/13
to
On Sat, 16 Mar 2013 12:25:01 +0000, steve robinson wrote:
> English is the national language of the united kingdom.
No it isn't. English is the national language of England.
> English is the national language of the united kingdom.
> If the group was welsh legal moderated then i would be slight;y
> different.
the UK.
Major Scott
Mar 16, 2013, 4:55:02 PM3/16/13
to
On Sat, 16 Mar 2013 09:10:02 -0000, Neil Williams <wensl...@pacersplace.org.uk> wrote:
> Paul Rudin <paul....@rudin.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> I was actually thinking about buying a calculator the other day... there
>> are times when I don't want to get out the laptop (or don't have it with
>> me), but the calculator on my smartphone isn't great.
>
> There are loads of calculator apps out there...
I will even use a calculator in preference to a computer. It's just easier and faster to use something dedicated to that function.
> Paul Rudin <paul....@rudin.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> I was actually thinking about buying a calculator the other day... there
>> are times when I don't want to get out the laptop (or don't have it with
>> me), but the calculator on my smartphone isn't great.
>
> There are loads of calculator apps out there...
I will even use a calculator in preference to a computer. It's just easier and faster to use something dedicated to that function.
Zapp Brannigan
Mar 16, 2013, 6:25:01 PM3/16/13
to
news:c9SdnT9gofkrR9nM...@giganews.com...
in which most official business is conducted.
> On Sat, 16 Mar 2013 12:25:01 +0000, steve robinson wrote:
>
>
>> English is the national language of the united kingdom.
>
> No it isn't. English is the national language of England.
English is by a very great margin the main language of the UK, and the one
>
>
>> English is the national language of the united kingdom.
>
> No it isn't. English is the national language of England.
in which most official business is conducted.
Tim Jackson
Mar 16, 2013, 6:30:02 PM3/16/13
to
On Sat, 16 Mar 2013 20:55:02 +0000, Echo Nancy wrote...
> Welsh is an official language of
> the UK.
I'm not sure there *is* an official language of the UK. Even English.
To the extent that Welsh has an official status, I think it is only in
Wales.
> Welsh is an official language of
> the UK.
To the extent that Welsh has an official status, I think it is only in
Wales.
It is loading more messages.
0 new messages