Law on Trespass?

[jazzman]

I have had a problem for a number of years now regarding footballs being kicked onto my property and on some occasions damaging my property. The footballs come from a nearby football field where the public and the club have local matches.

I have requested several times to the club if they could put a higher fence at the grounds to prevent the football from leaving the sports grounds, my request has been turned down by the club because they are happy with the current fence.

I have now informed the club not to trespass onto my land for the recovery of footballs because of previous damage but I will contact the club in the event that I find a football on my property. I have also placed a lock on the gate to my property to prevent the recovery of footballs that may have caused damage when I am out (for evidence in the event of damage. But I suspect that the club will still climb over the gate if I am out.

So the legal questions: Am I with my rights legally to request to the club not to enter onto my land for the recovery of footballs?

In the event that footballs are still being recovered i.e persons climbing over the gate and fencing is there any thing legally that can be done to prevent this?

I have only taken this drastic action in the hope that the club will put up a higher fence because of the problems.

[Mark Goodge]

On Sun, 02 Sep 2012 10:15:01 +0100, jazzman put finger to keyboard and
typed:

>So the legal questions: Am I with my rights legally to request to the club not to enter onto my land for the recovery of footballs?

Provided that you do make the footballs available for collection at a
reasonable time, yes. You can't keep the footballs, but you can insist that
they are only collected at a time that is suitably convenient.
Alternatively, you can offer to return the footballs at a mutually agreed
time.

>In the event that footballs are still being recovered i.e persons climbing over the gate and fencing is there any thing legally that can be done to prevent this?

There would be quite a strong possibility of criminal damage being
committed if they did this.

Mark
--
Blog: http://mark.goodge.co.uk
Stuff: http://www.good-stuff.co.uk

[Chris R]

>
>
> "jazzman" wrote in message
> news:6fc271c4-0292-49eb...@googlegroups.com...

You are quite within your rights to prevent them trespassing, and they
shouldn't be entering your property without your permission anyway. In
practice the only legal remedy to prevent trespassing is to get an
injunction, for which you need evidence. A dog would be cheaper.
--
Chris R

========legalstuff========
I post to be helpful but not claiming any expertise nor intending
anyone to rely on what I say. Nothing I post here will create a
professional relationship or duty of care. I do not provide legal
services to the public. My posts here refer only to English law except
where specified and are subject to the terms (including limitations of
liability) at http://www.clarityincorporatelaw.co.uk/legalstuff.html
======end legalstuff======

[Percy Picacity]

Should the dog have the habit of chewing up footballs, what would the
householder's liability then be? And would it be affected by a warning
to the club about the dog's propensity?
--

Percy Picacity

[Pelican]

"Mark Goodge" <use...@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote in message
news:52j648lmq1g98bg2a...@news.markshouse.net...

If that actually occurred, and there was satisfactory evidence to prove it.

[Pelican]

"Chris R" <inv...@invalid.munge.co.uk> wrote in message
news:JJmdnWT7aZfl397N...@brightview.co.uk...

The problem with such cheap remedies is that they might invite cheap
retaliation.

[Simon Finnigan]

What happens if the dog destroys the footballs? I've got two dogs, one of
which will attack any football on sight unless ordered off it. In the back
garden he's destroyed many balls belonging to neighbours kids that have
come over the fence while he's out and I'm not paying attention.

[Mark Goodge]

On Sun, 02 Sep 2012 16:35:02 +0100, Simon Finnigan put finger to keyboard
and typed:

>"Chris R" <inv...@invalid.munge.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> You are quite within your rights to prevent them trespassing, and they
>> shouldn't be entering your property without your permission anyway. In
>> practice the only legal remedy to prevent trespassing is to get an
>> injunction, for which you need evidence. A dog would be cheaper.
>
>What happens if the dog destroys the footballs? I've got two dogs, one of
>which will attack any football on sight unless ordered off it. In the back
>garden he's destroyed many balls belonging to neighbours kids that have
>come over the fence while he's out and I'm not paying attention.

I think that, technically, that's theft or criminal damage. As a general
rule you are obliged to take reasonable care of property you do not own
that inadvertantly comes into your posession, in order that it can later be
restored to the owner. But I suspect that the chances of being prosecuted
for allowing a dog to chew a misdirected football are negligible.

[steve robinson]

It certainly isnt theft, criminal damage might be a runner but that
cuts both ways dog destroys ball , ball damages your prized dandilions
.

[Periander]

On 2-Sep-2012, Mark Goodge <use...@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:

> I think that, technically, that's theft or criminal damage. As a general
> rule you are obliged to take reasonable care of property you do not own
> that inadvertantly comes into your posession, in order that it can later
> be
> restored to the owner. But I suspect that the chances of being prosecuted
> for allowing a dog to chew a misdirected football are negligible.

Unless you let the dog loose expecing it to destroy another persons property
either on command or simply because that's what it does then yes criminal
damage cold be argued. If as in this case the ball simply landed in the dogs
garden and he played toothball with it then no criminal act - you have to
prove intent or recklessness by the owner (human).

--

All the best,

Periander

[Periander]

On 2-Sep-2012, "Chris R" <inv...@invalid.munge.co.uk> wrote:

> You are quite within your rights to prevent them trespassing, and they
> shouldn't be entering your property without your permission anyway. In
> practice the only legal remedy to prevent trespassing is to get an
> injunction, for which you need evidence. A dog would be cheaper.

It's also worth pointing out that if the football club take no notice of the
"keep out" signs and your entreaties to get out of the garden you can use
force to remove them. The first part of the test is that it is *necessary*
to use force (you have to show that other means have failed or in the
circumstances reasonably expected to fail if tried) and the second part of
the test is that force that you use has to be *reasonable*. Note the order,
if it isn't necessary to use force then your acts aren't lawful.

Of course when the odds are you verses 2 football teams, 1 ref, 2 linos, a
few doezen supporters ... it may not be wise to presume upon your rights.

[Simon Finnigan]

I can't realistically see how it can be either. I've got no intention of
permanently depriving anyone of their goods. All I'm doing is allowing my
dog to use my garden, which is surrounded by a 6 foot tall fence with no
gaps in. I'd say there's a reasonable expectation that I should be allowed
to use my own property in this manner. The only alternative course of
action available would be to keep my dogs locked in my house except for
when I can supervise them in the garden, which seems entirely unreasonable.

[jazzman]

In the event of further property damage occurring, how does one go about getting an injunction? I presume that this will be a Private Injunction? There shouldn't be a problem regarding evidence of whom the guilty party is.

[gluti...@yahoo.co.uk]

IANAL

AFAIK:

An open or unlocked gate, or open grounds, indicates an 'implied
licence' to enter upon a property.

A locked gate, or fencing designed to exclude 'visitors' effectively
withdraws that licence. (Who owns the fence in question here?)

If you communicate to someone that they must get off your property,
that withdraws the 'implied licence', and you are within your rights
to use whatever force is necessary to remove them.

Objects thrown onto your property are in themselves a form of
trespass.

If your dog chews such an object, then I'd think the object's owner
should have taken care not to allow it in the dog's vicinity.

[jazzman]

Update:

A stray football ended up in my garden yet again during a football match, ball just missed my car.
My gate was locked when this happened, one of the football team just climbed over the gate and bent the hinges.
I previously informed the football club's secretary by letter not to recover footballs from my property due to all the damage that I have had. I informed the club that I would contact the club in the event of a football landing on my property to arrange for the football to be collected. This request is obviously being ignored.
I am now considering legal action due to the damage on the gate, would to club be responsible or the person who climbed over the gate (unknown) be responsible for the damage?

[Mark Goodge]

On Sat, 27 Oct 2012 23:55:02 +0100, jazzman put finger to keyboard and
typed:

>I am now considering legal action due to the damage on the gate, would to club be responsible or the person who climbed over the gate (unknown) be responsible for the damage?

Both. Since you know the identity of the club, start by suing them. If they
want to disclaim responsibility and point the finger at the individual who
ignored their instructions not to enter your garden, then they can.