Poppers - Dangerous or Not?
Creweser
I'm just curious to know whether or not poppers are dangerous. I've been
using them for 10+ years now with no obvious ill effects although some of my
friends would argue otherwise.
I know that they can be a bit iffy if you've got a heart condition, but I
also seem to remember reading somewhere that they kill off loads of brain
cells which over time could cause premature brain damage.
Could anyone enlighten fill me on this please.
Many thanks
Martin
Lee John Moore
> Hi, not posted here before, so hello everyone.
>
> I'm just curious to know whether or not poppers are dangerous.
> I've been using them for 10+ years now with no obvious ill
> effects although some of my friends would argue otherwise.
Have they noticed changes in your mental behaviour?
> I know that they can be a bit iffy if you've got a heart
> condition, but I also seem to remember reading somewhere that
> they kill off loads of brain cells which over time could cause
> premature brain damage.
Amyl nitrate can actually be beneficial if you've got angina but
quite the opposite if you suffer other conditions (such as
anaemia) because your blood pressure will go through the floor.
As for the death of brain cells: yes, it's as inevitable as it
is with petrol or glue sniffing because all reduce oxygen levels
in your blood.
Brain damage, I suppose, is going to depend on frequency of
usage. Even neurons will remap to counter the deficit left by
dead neurons, but heavy usage of any inhalant reducing oxygen in
the blood supply will suppress cell recovery. But it's hardly
like you're going to wake up one day with a large section of
cortex missing and impaired visual or motor functions.
> Could anyone enlighten fill me on this please.
I think you should be more worried about nearby sources of
ignition when they're close to your nose, or accidentally
swallowing them (can be fatal). Oh, and *never* inhale nitrates
if you're also taking Viagra.
I must add, I'm no expert; I just read a neurology book by
Baroness Greenfield which discusses the effects of various
substances on the body as well as the brain. Provided your use
of poppers is limited, despite the regular intake; as long
as you don't have a health condition which is dangerous when
coupled with amyl/butyl nitrate usage, then I wouldn't worry
*too* much.
Alcohol and cigarettes are considered, by some, as far more
dangerous. Nitrates are only a temporary fix with temporary
effects aren't they[1]?
[1] Erm, provided you don't die. :P
--
Lee John Moore
le...@dsl.pipex.com
Creweser
twice a week or 'under the right circumstances' if you know what I mean.
Also, I don't smoke, only drink occasionally and thank God, so far haven't
needed Viagra.
Martin
Lee John Moore <le...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:b9l37q$kcp1m$1...@ID-129053.news.dfncis.de...
Nat
Thorne may well help answer a few questions
For over 30 years, the contents of a small amber bottle has been an
essential constituent of gay culture. Every weekend across the world,
hundreds upon thousands of people enjoy the heady rush and intense
high that the ‘liquid aroma with a kick like a donkey’ can
provide. They’re legal, cheap, highly available and safe….
But how safe? Natalie Thorne takes a look at the hidden and hazy world
of poppers.
Ten years ago, no gay magazine worth their salt would possibly print
an article about the dangers of poppers. Advertisements for products
such as Rush, Liquid Gold and TNT are worth over £250,000 to the top
five gay magazines in the UK alone. The pink-press could not afford to
speak out against one of its top benefactors. It is no surprise then
that so few gay people really know about the dangers behind the aptly
nicknamed ‘gay drug’.
Amyl Nitrate was originally born to be a medicine. Small glass
capsules containing a dose of the burnt rubber smelling liquid were
produced so that heart patients could simply pop and sniff the product
with ease. The name ‘poppers’ soon came into the English
language and the small amounts of nitrate brought relief to chest pain
by relaxing muscles and lowering blood pressure. Angina and other
heart patients were glad of the short-lived relief that poppers
afforded to them.
Social use of poppers didn’t happen until the sixties when
GI’s in the Vietnam War discovered the high that would follow a
small sniff of nitrate. They were legal, they were easy to carry and
were able to give the troubled soldier a short boost when it was most
needed. It was natural that the drug would eventually fall into gay
hands. Not only did the drug relax muscles and aid anal sex, they
could also produce a high just at the moment of climax and make the
experience seem longer and more powerful. By the 1970’s, the air
of every gay disco was heavy with the bitter smell of the new
substance.
It took a while for scientists and authorities to realise that Amyl
Nitrate was being used for ‘other purposes’. In the UK,
the Royal Pharmaceutical Society won a campaign in 1996 to ban the
sale of poppers as recreational drugs. All nitrates could not now be
sold for the purpose of being inhaled. It looked as though poppers had
reached the end of the line. But the manufactures simply re-branded
and re-marketed the product as a ‘room aroma’. By now, the
world knew fully well what the product was and how to take it. Despite
a change to the law, Amyl Nitrate was still totally legal to make and
sell as long as there was no suggestion on the packaging that the
produce could be directly inhaled.
The gay press was one of the first industries to benefit from the
sale of poppers as a social drug. At its peak, the US gay publishing
companies were earning over $50 million per year from poppers
advertising. With a range of images from brightly coloured cartoon
strips to muscle bound men on motorbikes, the nitrates industry
constantly advertised the newly styled ‘room incense’
product to the gay market. With the product worth so much, there was
little attention in the gay press given to the harmful side effects of
the drug. One US gay magazine even went as far as to suggest poppers
were good for you. The effect of financial dependence, combined with
such a widespread use amongst the community meant that poppers were
always considered 100% safe with a slight headache the only side
effect.
But are nitrates, of which there are various types and incarnations,
actually harmful? Ever since they were first held to the nose and
sniffed, users have known about their unpleasant after effects. Too
much can give you a headache, even the smallest of sniffs can leave
your legs feeling like jelly and your chest pounding as if there were
a stampede of elephants running trough it. If it should find its way
onto your skin, there is a risk of permanent damage. Highly corrosive,
nitrates can burn the skin away in a matter of seconds. Bearing in
mind that 56% of the time poppers are used in a sexual situation,
there is often a lot of bare flesh around to spill it onto!
Inevitably, there came a point in time when many people started to
question how a highly flammable liquid that burns skin and raised
heartbeats to the level of a highly trained athlete in mid-performance
could really be 100% harmless. While scientists and health
professionals started to put forward a few suspected cases of death,
few provable facts against nitrates actually existed. Then in the
early 80’s, a gay advocate (Hank Wilson) and a journalist (John
Lauritsen) began to look a little closer at the evidence. As
Lauritesn explains, their research was not always welcome.
“I began collaborating with Wilson in 1983. We published a
series of pamphlets and, in 1986, a little book, Death Rush: Poppers &
AIDS. In 1983 I spoke out publicly against poppers for the first time,
at a meeting of the New York Safer Sex Committee. I was savagely
attacked on the spot by a gay physician, who waved his arms and
screamed at me like a maniac. That evening I received a death threat.
The phone rang. It was a woman who said, coldly and professionally
‘Don't be surprised if you don't wake up in the
morning’.”
Undeterred, the two went on to form The Committee to Monitor Poppers
and as the AIDS crisis deepened, many members of the scientific
community began to look to nitrates as a possible cause. During the
past twenty years, poppers have been blamed for helping HIV turn to
AIDS, for encouraging the spread of AIDS as well as being the main
cause of the HIV virus. While most theories have been disproved, only
one warning remains still very much up for debate. Kaposi’s
Sarcoma (KS) is a cancer-like disease. It usually shows up in the
skin, or in the linings of the mouth, nose, or eye. For years,
Lauritsen and many of his peers have tried to prove a link between
taking poppers and AIDS patients developing KS.
“There are strong epidemiological links between the use of
poppers and the development of AIDS, especially KS. In AIDS cases, KS
is found almost entirely among gay men who used poppers, not among
members of other "risk groups".
But it is not just serious illnesses such as KS that are a risk. One
small bottle of poppers could either kill if drunk, burn the skin off
of a hand, cause somebody to pass-out or even set a whole nightclub on
fire. Lauritsen warns of the everyday dangers of the drug.
“Poppers are harmful. They damage the immune system. They injure
the lungs. They can cause severe or fatal anaemia. Poppers are
strongly mutagenic, and have the potential to cause cancer by
producing deadly N-nitroso compounds. Poppers can cause death or brain
damage from cardiovascular collapse or stroke. Poppers have been used
successfully to commit suicide by drinking and also murder. The victim
was gagged with a sock soaked with poppers.”
But more worrying effects are still coming to light. Firstly, Viagra
has also now moved from the medicine cabinet to the back pocket. On
the gay scene, Viagra is now one of the many ‘cocktail
drugs’ along with poppers which are taken in combination with
other drugs to create a unique effect. However, like poppers, viagra
lowers blood pressure dramatically. A mix of the two substances can
cause a patient's blood pressure to fall to dangerously low levels.
There have already been recorded cases of deaths due to this new
sexual drug mix.
Even for those who do not mix poppers with anything else there are
still new undesirable effects and dangers. More and more users are
reporting a blurring to the eyes that remains for up to ten days. This
effect has implications on all areas of life and increases the chances
of a serious accident for the whole duration of the visual impairment.
As yet, no large scale research into visual problems is underway, even
though it is fast becoming the most widespread complaint from using
nitrates.
As the drug is on sale in the disguise of a ‘room aroma’,
there are no warnings to heart patients, who have a high risk of death
from the drug, as well as no advice about any adverse side effects.
Amyl Nitrates need regulation, whether it be through legalisation or
criminalization. The present state of play has created a loophole in
the law which lets a dangerous substance out, unregulated and
uncontrolled into the hands of people from all walks of life. Although
constantly overlooked and ignored by the gay press and the scientific
community, there is no doubt that poppers can be dangerous. Lauritesen
has doubts over the effectiveness banning Nitrates all together.
“Here in New York City, poppers are sold openly, despite the
fact that they are illegal by both state and federal law. The miasma
of popper fumes has again become a taken-for-granted aspect of the
‘gay lifestyle’. Banning poppers isn't the answer. Our
task is to get the word out, that poppers really are dangerous. We
have to counteract the misinformation that has been
disseminated.”
Your Experiences
“I used poppers a lot one night and found my vision was
affected. All the lights in the club started to shimmer. It stayed
blurred for about 10 days before I decided to go and see the doctor. I
had a MRI scan and everything seemed okay. It faded a few days later
thank goodness and I haven’t touched them again.” James,
32
“One night after poppers I had a sensation like my brain was
literally melting. It was quite frightening. I had to be taken home
from the club and I had a splitting headache for hours afterwards
too.” Maria, 25
“When I was a teenager, I though dipping a fag in poppers and
then smoking it would be a good idea. When I lit it, the fag pretty
much exploded in my face. I’ve still got quite a few scars
around my mouth. Although it is amusing now, it could have been a lot
worse.” Ally, 23
“My friend took some poppers at the club one evening and then
drove home. He complained of vision problems before he went, but
ignored it. On the way home he crashed into a tree and unfortunately
was killed. Although his vision problems were mentioned at the
inquest, it is hard to tell if that was what caused him to misjudge a
corner. It was still recorded as accidental death.” Anon.
“I used it when I lost my virginity as I was told it relaxed
your muscles. I wish I had tried it first though because I went all
light headed and ended up having a panic attack half way
through!” lain, 27
www.fyne.co.uk
Jonathan Bratt
<natalie...@hotmail.com> writes
> One small bottle of poppers could either kill if drunk,
My bf's flatmate - up from the valleys and new to the gay scene did
actually drink the stuff when offered it for the first time!! Apparently
he wasn't even sick....
--
Jonathan Bratt
Lee John Moore
> This article entitle The Gay Drug from Fyne Times magazine by Natalie
> Thorne may well help answer a few questions
I think this is more questionable than a rant from Richard
Littlejohn. Trimming to the points she raises:
[..]
> hundreds upon thousands of people enjoy the heady rush and intense
> high that the ‘liquid aroma with a kick like a donkey
This is highly subjective. I personally don't feel it gives a
'kick like a donkey'. In fact, the 'kick' is brief and
comparable to that of first experience with a cigarette. Also
worth mentioning is that the kick from a cigarette lasts far
longer because nicotine mimics the transmitter acetylcholine,
keeping levels high far beyond the first drag of the cigarette;
unlike poppers, the effect of which dissipates a minute or so
after inhalation. This mimicry of acetylcholine puts the body
into 'war mode' by increasing the heart rate and blood pressure.
Like the reaction from nitrates, this could trigger adverse
(potentially fatal) reactions in people with certain health
(particularly heart and circulatory) conditions. As the
reaction from a cigarette is longer lasting, the effects are
questionably more serious.
The point: of course nitrates have dangers. But how do those
dangers compare to those of more socially acceptable substances
like nicotine?
> Ten years ago, no gay magazine worth their salt would possibly
> print an article about the dangers of poppers.
Which of course, is crap. This was a hot topic when I used them
(briefly) in the early 1990s and I recall articles, discussing
the health implications, in Gay Times, The Pink Paper and Boyz.
> It took a while for scientists and authorities to realise that Amyl
> Nitrate was being used for ‘other purposes’. In the UK,
> the Royal Pharmaceutical Society won a campaign in 1996 to ban the
> sale of poppers as recreational drugs.
A campaign which was the first to call use of poppers "solvent
abuse" before comparing it to glue-sniffing. It then went on to
describe the side-effects of glue-sniffing as somehow attributed
to poppers, merely because there's not as much evidence of
negative side-effects from amyl and butyl nitrates (aside from
the obvious implications of low blood pressure in combination
with certain illnesses). This is somewhat bizarre considering
glue works on different receptors and is a hallucinogen. Based
on such logic, shouldn't we just ban all inhalants? Ever heard
of Vicks misuse? I have, so let's ban the chest rub from
Newsagents using the same principle.
The RPS's talk of gay recreational usage and comparisons with
glue-sniffing were clever from a PR point of view because the
tabloids and politicians picked up on the 'gay glue sniffer'
malarkey and amyl/butyl nitrates were suddenly banned for
recreational use. Oh and homo's became even more immoral. ;)
> But are nitrates, of which there are various types and
> incarnations, actually harmful? Ever since they were first
> held to the nose and sniffed, users have known about their
> unpleasant after effects. Too much can give you a headache,
> even the smallest of sniffs can leave your legs feeling like
> jelly and your chest pounding as if there were a stampede of
> elephants running trough it.
Subjective and IME, fiction (not even exaggeration).
> If it should find its way onto your skin, there is a risk of
> permanent damage. Highly corrosive, nitrates can burn the skin
> away in a matter of seconds. Bearing in mind that 56% of the
> time poppers are used in a sexual situation, there is often a
> lot of bare flesh around to spill it onto!
Although there's a warning on the bottle, those sold
commercially aren't pure enough to cause such burns in seconds.
Ask around. Most poppers users have touched their nose with the
(ahem) rim of the bottle. Far from getting burnts, the skin
goes a little yellow (until washed).
> Inevitably, there came a point in time when many people
> started to question how a highly flammable liquid
There is a warning on the bottle about being flammable. But
petrol it 'aint.
OK..I've snipped from here because I only have so much time. I
don't feel this journalist is really unbiased enough to take
seriously.
I personally don't take poppers because they never did anything
for me. What's the point of an anal relaxant that's capable of
making you lose an erection? However, some people clearly do
get something positive out of them. I think it's a pity there's
so much scaremongering journalism around and so few facts. Even
sadder that the RPS blurred the issue further by discussing the
negative implications of glue-sniffing instead of the chemicals
they were trying to ban. It all results in misinformation.
Lee John Moore
I know somebody (very silly who didn't read the 'do not digest'
warning) who did this and he said it tasted like Vodka - only
better. What an expensive shot! ;)
Christopher Anton
> Amyl nitrate can actually be beneficial...
please, it pisses me off no end (with my chemistry hat on) to have
them continually described as nitrates. THEY are NOT. The cardiac drug
and cyanide antidote is amyl NITRITE and most poppers these days are
butyl NITRITE. i.e. they have an NO2 group as opposed to NO3.
Michael King
at c.a...@blueyonder.co.uk wrote on 12/05/03 23:53:
I'm so pleased it wasn't just me that was thinking this.
Had to go check my "going out HCN kit".
Interestingly btw Amyl Nitrite has a complex and usually fatal reaction
(genetic based) at the therapeutic dose in about 1% users. I presume this
means most popper users donšt experience this.
I wonder if Butyl-nitrite causes the same haemoglobin transformation.
Biochemist on the group ??
Mxx
Lyn David Thomas
LOL this is true, but most don't know the difference. IIRC they aren't
realy a cyanide antidote, more of a sticking plaster until you drink
solution A + B....
Scott James Remnant
side effects and bad side effects. One side will always give you a
"there's nothing wrong with them" speech, the other will always give you
a "they're death incarnate" speech.
The truth, of course, lies in the middle. Where exactly depends on you,
for some people they have no ill effects whatsoever, others they kill on
the first sniff.
Koffee Perkolator
<sc...@news.netsplit.com> wrote this:
You don't know a thing about the subject, do you?
--
Bess.
Squiff
David Boothroyd wrote in message ...
>In article <78a89462.0305...@posting.google.com>,
>organic Nitrite group - ie -O-N=O. The organic Nitrate group is
>O=N=0
> |
>so its formula is NO as well.
> 2
>(If I remember it right). As you see the difference is the oxidation state
>of the Nitrogen (+3 in nitrites, +5 in nitrates).
>
OK,
now which one do I put on the tomatoes?.
Squiff
Michael King
confirms that some people (small %) are dramatically susceptible to amyl,
butyl and sodium nitrite.
I suspect this accounts for almost all the first-time user deaths.
Mxx
PS This is genetic - so if youšve used a "reasonable" dose in the past then
you will not suffer this effect - but go easy on the dose .....
Met-Haemoglobin doesnšt transport oxygen to your body !!
Simon Meech
> Was provided with an interesting article during a course this week that
> confirms that some people (small %) are dramatically susceptible to amyl,
> butyl and sodium nitrite.
Is this on the internet? I would be quite interested to find out more about
that.
--
----
Simon
tagae...@emailplus.org
There are postings about the dangers and use of poppers all over the
web such as:
http://www.powerpoppers.com/aroma_poppers.shtml
I have never had a problem. They must never be used with VIAGRA - the
combination is very dangerous.
tagae...@emailplus.org
Mix the ground meats together in a large bowl,
then mix each of the other ingredients.
Make balls about the size of a baby?s fist
(there should be one lying around for reference).
Bake at 400°for about 25 minutes -
or you could fry them in olive oil.
Place the meatballs in the tomato gravy, and simmer for several hours.
Serve on spaghetti.
Accompany with green salad, garlic bread and red wine.
Newborn Parmesan
This classic Sicilian cuisine can easily be turned into Eggplant Parmesan
If you are planning a vegetarian meal. Or you could just as well use veal -
after all, you have to be careful - Sicilians are touchy about their young
family members...
6 newborn or veal cutlets
Tomato gravy (see index)
4 cups mozzarella, 1cup parmesan, 1cup romano
Seasoned bread crumbs mixed with
parmesan
romano
salt
pepper
oregano
garlic powder
chopped parsley
Flour
eggwash (eggs and milk)
Peanut oil for frying.
Pound the cutlets.
Dredge in flour, eggs, then the bread crumb mixture.
Fry till golden brown in 350° peanut oil.
In a baking pan, place a layer of gravy,
then one