More thoughts on reviving Magic
David Sutcliffe
Gaunt, so named because of his ability to turn cards 8-15 of your deck into
utter pants) I got into a discussion with Andy McNish about this whole
'getting people to play Magic' thing. Andy was mostly concerned with making
sure that people who we do get into tournaments don`t just immediately turn
around and leave again after being spanked by us oldies.
I think this situation is also in need of address.
I really liked the idea that I saw a while ago, where WotC had prizes for
the player with a DCI ranking below 1700 who finished highest in that Grand
Prix. This effectively turned the Swiss system into two tournaments. I
think we need to be able to reward the players who have turned up and put as
much effort as any of us into their decks (probably more, if they aren`t
netdecking), but who aren`t likely to ever graze the Top-8, and this sort of
thing would be one way of doing that. Perhaps if we were to attract large
numbers of the current Pokemon kids into M:tG then we could have an age
division, with prizes for highest-ranked kids, but right now there seems no
way to adequately divide players up into these divisions.
This isn`t anywhere near as coherent as I hoped it would be, but I`m trying
to outline a system where prizes are redistributed down the field. I`m
thinking of something like Rally driving, where the overall winner is only
ever going to come from one of three teams - but there are prizes for
drivers competing in different engine/weight classes - you can come in
twelfth overall and yet still get a big prize for being the best in your
class.
The problem is that any class divisions we impose on Magic are likely to be
entirely artificial, as we are supposedly all starting from the same
position. We could introduce 'weight classes' based on DCI rankings - but
we know that those rankings are only fitfully updated. Alternatively we
could ask players to voluntarily enter themselves into one of those classes,
but experience suggests that 'voluntary' and 'competition' are not two words
that benefit from being put into the same sentence, and besides, would
anyone really want to admit that they are a second class Magic player?
But this is a secondary point.
Right now we need to be finding these new players, but we should also be
considering what we are going to do when we get them.
There has always been a drop-off from Magic, and I would guess that this
rate has remained utterly steady through the years, and that we are only
noticing it now because we are left with the bare bones of players, and so
we miss the individual drop-outs more than ever before. People quitting
Magic is not the base problem, the loss of new players is.
The three issues are:
1. Find new players.
2. Redistribute prizes to stop players who aren`t regular Top-8s from
feeling that their efforts are wasted.
3. Keep the serious players from dropping out by:
a. Making T2 matter (PTQs + PTs - a personal bugbear since my PT-Rome
debacle).
b. Cutting dual lands from extended, and so actually make it a
widely-playable format.
Right now there seems only two reasons to be playing tourney Magic at all:
1. You win.
2. You have nothing better to do with your time.
And for players with their eyes on Pro-Tour level Magic, as far as T2 is
concerned you can cut out that first one as well.
David Sutcliffe
TEAM CAND!MAN
http://members.tripod.co.uk/candiman/index.htm
Dinh Tu Nguyen
>snip<
>Magic is not the base problem, the loss of new players is.
>The three issues are:
>1. Find new players.
>2. Redistribute prizes to stop players who aren`t regular Top-8s from
>feeling that their efforts are wasted.
>3. Keep the serious players from dropping out by:
> a. Making T2 matter (PTQs + PTs - a personal bugbear since my
>PT-Rome debacle).
> b. Cutting dual lands from extended, and so actually make it a
>widely-playable format.
very good idea
>Right now there seems only two reasons to be playing tourney Magic at
>all:
>1. You win.
>2. You have nothing better to do with your time.
>And for players with their eyes on Pro-Tour level Magic, as far as T2
>is concerned you can cut out that first one as well.
I totally agree with you on this one David, but only one thing bugs
me. To be honest i don't think that redistributing prizes from the
top 8 pot to lower standings would help out a great deal in keeping up
tourney attendances. Yes this would probably encourage new/bad
players to come back and play again, but the prizes given out for
winning the damn thing is so poor at the moment that top players would
probably not bother attending the next time if prizes for t8 were to
be further reduced. Obviously, here i am assuming that prizes from t8
will be reduced so that lower final standings will get prizes.
I think the best idea right now is for TO to class players by their
magic skills (rankings will probably be the easiest way of measuring
this, althouigh not most accurate). For example there could be three
classes; 1800 and over, 1700-1799 and anything below 1700. Players
will then be charged according to their class e.g. ?5 for 1800 and
above, ?3 for 1700-1799 and ?1 for anyone below the 1700 ranking.
This would also allow TOs to give out prizes for players who finished
highest in their class and if worked out properly they could also
afford to reduce prizes for T8 since T8 finishers would already be
getting prizes for finishing highest in thier class. Basically this
system will mean that there will be more winners.
The advantages for using this system as far as i can see are:
1. By giving prizes for coming first in thier class, lower
skilled (new/bad) players will not feel so cheated when they get
beaten yet again by higher ranked players. This means that lower
ranked player will feel that he/she has achieved something that day
rather than a loser and hopefully will not only be encourage to
develope on his/her deck but more importantly on magic as a game.
2. By charging less entrance fee for lower ranked players, they
will not feel husselled when they do not do so well. I will make the
assumption that lowly ranked players are either bad at magic, new to
magic or young. This fee system should mean that bad magic players
will not feel like they are at a great lost everytime they attend a
tourney and see it as cheap attertainment. New players will be able
to afford using tournies as a interactive learning experience and see
them as a cheap service. Young players will be able to afford such
fees since they it would be in their pocket money range or the parents
of these young players will see it as cheap attertainment and service
for their children should they plan a family outting this way.
3. By charging more entrance fee for higher ranked players, TOs
can garruntee better prizes for coming 1st. This is to be blunt,
basically what a highly ranked player wants and why they attend
tournies. To them tournies become a gamble whereby they are the sure
win and the entrance fee/ranking is the bet. Therefore if you were to
raise the entrance fee a little to subsidise for the lower entrance
fee of lower ranked players and better prizes, i'm sure top players
will be interrested. I mean if you think you're gona win that big big
prize then wouldn't you bet on it? And of course the bigger the prize
the more top players you'll get.
The disadvatages for this system as far as i can see are:
1. It would be difficult for TOs to obtain accurate and up to
date rankings of players that attend. Right now i can only suggested
that TOs keep a ranking database of the players thats attend and ask
that the players are honest when they class themselve and that they
tell the TO everytime their ranking is updated. Random ranking checks
could be implamented like random deck checks at tournies as to disuade
dishonesty.
2. It would be hard to come up with a good finely tuned system.
3. Such a system would be hard to implement.
4. People classed like this may suffer from the same problems
that arise when people are classed in society, prejudice etc.
These problems are however to be expected but i think if people put in
the effort then there would be great rewards.
I have come up with the following as a suggestion to how such a system
could work.
-Class-
Class 1. Ranking of 1800 and above
Class 2. Ranking of 1700-1799
Class 3. Ranking of 1699 and below
-Entance Fee-
Class 1. Entrance fee = ?5
Class 2. Entrance fee = ?3
Class 3. Entrance fee = ?1
-Prizes distribution system-
The prizes would include product from WotCs prize support and
product/money gerenated by number of people attending the tournament.
I will assume that there is in total 100 booster packs that can be
given out as prizes so that people can work out this distribution
method by means of percentages should it be adopted.
-Prizes for coming 1st in their class-
Class 1. 9 boosters (due to raise entrance fee)
Class 2. 4 boosters (token of encouragement)
Class 3. 2 boosters (insentive for turning up and competing)
-Prizes for coming top 8-
1st. 18 boosters (will always be more since the same player will
have won one of the prizes for coming first in their class)
2nd. 17 boosters (for either not winning the tourney and for just
missing out on coming first in class 1)
3rd. 11 boosters
4th. 11 boosters
5th. 8 boosters
6th. 8 boosters
7th. 6 boosters
8th. 6 boosters
I am predicting that most of the time, the total prize for winning the
tourney is 27 boosters since it would be won by a class 1 player, that
someone else in the T8 would be a top of class2 winner and that there
will be not class 3 players in T8.
Wow, i didn't realised this post would be so long, should have been
just a simple reply, ah well the ball was rolling.....
just some thoughts, what are yours?
Tu | TJP
Lee Garner
"Dinh Tu Nguyen" <09586...@one2one.net> wrote in message
news:387c2ebf...@news.demon.co.uk...
>
> >snip<
>
> >Magic is not the base problem, the loss of new players is.
> >The three issues are:
> >1. Find new players.
> >2. Redistribute prizes to stop players who aren`t regular Top-8s from
> >feeling that their efforts are wasted.
> >3. Keep the serious players from dropping out by:
> > a. Making T2 matter (PTQs + PTs - a personal bugbear since my
> >PT-Rome debacle).
> > b. Cutting dual lands from extended, and so actually make it a
> >widely-playable format.
Argh!
I think this would be terrible for extended
One of my favourite things about extended is the ability to play multicolour
decks easily due to the duals. Plus this basically leaves t1 as the only
format you can use duals in (since 1.5 seems to be dead). I was angry enough
when I found out I wouldn't be able to play my black bordered
bolts/erhnams/mishras in 1.x, imagine how upset I'm going to be when I can't
play with my dual lands!
julian...@vissci.com
it`s very dificult to get an accurate idea of where players are in the
current standings, however I think encouraging new players and younger
players is a good idea.
Giving a prize to the best performance by an under 18 might be an idea
much like was implemented by the junior super series in the states.
If your a regular TO and see a new player starting to come regularly
to your tournaments and improving why not hand out a most improved
player award.
Neither have to be particularly big say three boosters and the later
could be an occasional thing at the judges discretion (I have seen
stuart do this before and thought it was a good idea at the time)
Either may help to intice younger or newer players back. One of the
main things that will bring them back is not so much the magic play
but the help and conversation with them (as Scott Wills has previously
pointed out) talking to new players about the stregths and weaknesses
to their decks and explaining why thats the case can be all the
encouragement needed to bring them back. Or just chatting in general,
the tournament scene can be quite daunting to a new/young player,
walking in to a room full of strangers and knowing nobody. If no one
talks to you you probably will think twice about coming back, however
if you see a new player and make yourself and your friends known to
them (probably after being paired against them in the first round)
then they will feel encouraged.
It`s easy to walk away from a game and tell your teamates how you
crushed the newbie scrub in seconds but has it improved your game or
encouraged him/her to play again in a tournament.
TO`s can use there imagination, it`s very apparent from the number of
posts on the subject it`s a feeling that is widespread across the
country, so lets put a little thought and effort in to building the
game up in this country instead of destroying it.
I notice that several quality UK players come to this newsgroup to
flack others and offer no productive comment themselves, if they do
the same at tournaments then it will in no way encourage new players.
Stand back and look at yourselves, the world chess grand master aren`t
seen constantly calling lesser players scrubbs and newbies, they
encourage them by playing simultaneous matches and such likes.
Where did this level of arrogance come in to magic, it`s not a macho
thing to do, you dont have to be fit, so why the constant trash
talking. It doesn`t happen at the Scottish tournaments anymore, those
players who did do it have long since stopped (except maybe the odd
Chappers 8) ) and the whole event is so much more friendly to be in.
If machismo and arrogance is what you seek then take up boxing or
american wrestling or something.
If I can take one good thing away from each tourney I would be happy
at that, wether it be success in the tourney, seeing an old face or
meeting a new and enthusiatic player. A little goes a long way.
May your tourneys prosper this year.
Joules Haigh
Team Highlander