(Mongoose) News - Judge Dredd RPG
Matthew Sprange
I think it is about time that we let you know what is going on here at
Sector Control!
The Judge Dredd RPG hardback is currently at the printers and, we are
reliably informed, will be with us sometime next week. The release date is
mid-June, though those in the UK may well see a few advance copies floating
around in their local game stores. You never know. . .
Two other releases will also come along at the same time as the main
rulebook. First, is the extremely Limited Edition metal-bound version of the
rulebook. There are only 200 copies of these, so they will be disappearing
fast! Each weighs nearly 3 Kgs (perfect for keeping unruly players - or
Games Masters - in line!) and will cost $100 (yes, the Mongoose will convert
to those of us who still prefer the good old British Pound!), plus shipping.
We will be taking orders via post (with cheques) and PayPal (credit cards)
at the end of this month, so if you are after a copy, please send me a
private mail to reserve it before we announce it on our web site!
The second release is The Rookie's Guide to the Justice Department, also off
to the printers this week. Using colour throughout, this 64 page supplement
is packed (and I mean packed - we had trouble fitting it all in!) with
useful information for Games Masters and judge characters alike. We have new
rules for bloodlines (fancy playing a clone of Fargo or Solomon?), new
specialist judges (including Acc-Div, the Pursuit Squad, Sector Chiefs and
the infamous Holocaust Squad) and new weapons, equipment and vehicles, from
the humble Mk I Lawgiver to the the mighty Mechanismo robots and K2001 Land
Raider! On top of that, The Rookie's Guide to the Justice Department also
features a complete Sector House in which to base your campaigns.
The Mongoose is not content with that, however, not by a long shot. The new
2000AD RPG web site is imminent, I am told, and will have all manner of news
and goodies on our new lines. The first scenario for the Judge Dredd
roleplaying game has just been completed - Full Eagle Day tracks the
progress of a team of rookie judges as they try to graduate to full street
judges. Under the stern gaze of Judge Dredd himself, no less (we may take
bets on how many rookies actually survive Dredd's supervision. . . ).
Full Eagle Day is due for release in July, along with The Rookie's Guide to
Block Wars (containing _everything_ you need to run your own protest march,
rumble, riot or block war) and the Games Master's Screen, which also
contains the 24 page booklet Mega-City One's Most Wanted. The latter is a
complete listing of the stats and history of the most famous characters to
have graced the comic strip, from the Angel Gang and Chopper, through
DeMarco & Perkins, to Judges Dredd, Anderson and Hershey. We are also
including the Martial Artist citizen prestige class (for a certain Stan Lee)
and I have heard rumours of a Sov-Block Agent prestige class, though I have
yet to work out who that is for. . .
Our aim, of course, is to make sure that this is the best supported RPG on
the market outside of D&D itself, guaranteeing that 2000AD fans will have
more than enough information to make their games the most exciting yet.
After all this Judge Dredd gaming, I was hoping to find a quiet life.
However, there are dark rumblings coming from the office of Ian Sturrock,
one of Mongoose's game developers. Low moans, baleful sobbing and the odd
loud cry of 'Kiss My Axe!'
No idea what that is all about, but no doubt we shall find out soon. . .
Matthew Sprange
Mongoose Publishing
http://www.mongoosepublishing.com
estarriol
play it other than the Dredd book itself?
--
estarriol
Matthew Sprange
> play it other than the Dredd book itself?
For best effect, The Player's Handbook. But no more. I guarantee :)
Matthew
ed
7 May 2002 17:32:47 +0100:
<snip> Each weighs nearly 3 Kgs (perfect for keeping unruly players - or
>Games Masters - in line!) and will cost $100 (yes, the Mongoose will convert
>to those of us who still prefer the good old British Pound!), plus shipping.
Matthew
Now you're just taking the piss
ed
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edh...@equus.demon.co.uk | Dragons Rescued | _////
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Matthew Bloomer
<esta...@hacme.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>praise be to Mongoose. Now as its a d20 game what else would I need to
>play it other than the Dredd book itself?
That's what puts me off buying it: that I'd have to buy d20 in order
to get full use of it. Were it self-contained then I'd be very solely
tempted to buy the Dredd book.
Hmm. There aren't any plans for a GURPS-powered version, perchance?
GURPS is a game that I already have.
--
# Matthew Bloomer, philosophy undergraduate #
# of Derwent College, University of York #
# maj...@btinternet.com / mjb...@york.ac.uk #
# http://www-users.york.ac.uk/~mjb135/ #
Matthew Sprange
> >Games Masters - in line!) and will cost $100 (yes, the Mongoose will
convert
> >to those of us who still prefer the good old British Pound!), plus
shipping.
>
Well, this depends on your point of view. Metal bound. First time an RPG
book has been done this way. 3 kg. Fully hinged. We ain't just stuck a
couple of sheets of metal on this thing. . .
We'll have some pictures of this up pretty soon. Not for everyone -
collectors only need apply. . .
Matthew
Jim Davies
>The noble "Matthew Sprange" <alt...@clara.net> spake on the day of Tue,
>7 May 2002 17:32:47 +0100:
>
><snip> Each weighs nearly 3 Kgs (perfect for keeping unruly players - or
>>Games Masters - in line!) and will cost $100 (yes, the Mongoose will convert
>>to those of us who still prefer the good old British Pound!), plus shipping.
>
>Matthew
>
>Now you're just taking the piss
You do have to wonder how much the shipping is on a 3 kg book. I would
like to see one of these edifices, though perhaps not buy one.
-
Jim Davies
----------
Mind your manners, son! I've got a tall pointy hat!
Phil Masters
> Now you're just taking the piss
Yes, but out of people who are prepared to give them a hundred bucks for
a metal-bound RPG book. This sounds both justified and very smart to
me...
--
Phil Masters * Home Page: http://www.philm.demon.co.uk/
Jane Simpson
Jane
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jane Simpson Tality Corporation, The Alba Campus, Livingston
Consulting Engineer mailto:jsim...@tality.com
Phone: +44 (0)1506 595079 Fax: +44 (0)1506 595959
martin arnold
better served with its own mechanics more suited to the setting and the
game. Secondly, for those of us without the PHB the cost of the game has
doubled. To me the whole idea of using d20 for JD is silly. Surely only the
very sad are going to want to include dragons and elves in mega city1.
martin
James Graham
> > Well, this depends on your point of view. Metal bound. First time
> > an RPG
> > book has been done this way. 3 kg.
>
> There's a pretty good reason for why it's not been done before :-)
> $100 is pretty steep even for something metal bound... it can't be
> costing you much more than 50.
...or, you could possibly just buy the regular edition. I can't believe
we're debating the merits of a limited fucking edition! It's /supposed/ to
be expensive, for Christ's sake.
James
Duncan John Fyfe
<signofth...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Have a look for a 2nd hand copy of GWs Judge Dredd game (d4/d6/d10
system). IMHO it worked very well as a game.
And why not elves (illegal mutants) and dragons (illegal dangerous
creatures). With all the silly stuff that has appeared in 2000 AD (mutant
teddy bears ?!?) I think elves and dragons are the least of your worries
:)
Have fun,
Duncan
--
"Scintillate scintillate globe magnific
How I ponder your nature specific
Loftily poised in the aether capacious
Closely resembling a gem carbonaceous"
TC
<signofth...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>What a shame, firstly i have no doubt that a judge dredd game would be
>better served with its own mechanics more suited to the setting and the
>game.
Maybe it would, Martin. I take that on board. Frankly I am sick to
death of buying a new system - which I almost do as a hobby in its own
right - and then having to learn a new set of game mechanics each
time. Tireseome to the extreme IMO. That's not to say that there
aren't problems with d20 I grant you.
My feeling - and my group's view - is that one system learned = many
settings played. I love GURPS, but we aren't too keen on the
mechanics, and d20 is currently the only other multi-genre system out
there that we like. (Never been too sure about Fudge myself?)
I doubt we will buy JD, since the genre is of limited appeal to my
group, but if we did we could pick it up and run with it in no time
because we are familiar with the mechanics. We currenlty use d20 for
D&D, LoT5R (as of a couple of weeks ago, having converted over from
the original AEG system), CoC, Weird War II and shortly Traveller
(hopefully).
> Secondly, for those of us without the PHB the cost of the game has
>doubled.
Er, yes, but once you have the PHB, you can play, granted with the
additional expense of another manual each time, many other settings.
> To me the whole idea of using d20 for JD is silly. Surely only the
>very sad are going to want to include dragons and elves in mega city1.
Don't agree - OK, maybe not dragons per se - but the JD universe, how
I tentatively remember it, was filled with lots of 'weird' stuff? :-)
TC
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Simon Lipscomb
>Surely only the very sad are going to want to include dragons and elves in mega city1.
Point One: Surely only the very stupid would think that
because the game uses d20 that you'd be obliged to use D&D
elements.
Point Two: Yeah, cos they'd look really dumb and out of
place next to muties, aliens, cyborgs, robots, dog vultures,
apes, zombies, Dark Judges and assorted wierd psi phenomena.
--
---Dr. Simon Lipscomb, Univ. Labs of Physiology. Oxford.----
No-one is completely useless-
They can always serve as a bad example.
James Graham
signofth...@hotmail.com (martin arnold) wrote:
> firstly i have no doubt that a judge dredd game would be
> better served with its own mechanics more suited to the setting and the
> game. Secondly, for those of us without the PHB the cost of the game has
> doubled.
To paraphrase: "The mechanics of this game are not suitable for the
setting, but I'm not prepared to find out what they actually are"?
> To me the whole idea of using d20 for JD is silly. Surely only the
> very sad are going to want to include dragons and elves in mega city1.
There have been several Dredd strips featuring dragons, and at least one
strip featuring elves (the "Harry Snotter" parody). One of the great
things about the Dredd setting is that more or less anything goes. I
suggest that this post is again rooted in ignorance rather than actual
knowledge of the subject.
Hope we're all cosy wearing our anti-D20 hairshirts!
James
Matthew Sprange
> doubled. To me the whole idea of using d20 for JD is silly. Surely only
the
> very sad are going to want to include dragons and elves in mega city1.
Well, hang on - that is not what the d20 System is all about. Its only a
rules-set - what made you think it meant you had to have dragons, spells,
swords, etc, in Mega-City One?
Matthew
Guy Robinson
> On Tue, 7 May 2002 20:15:50 +0100, estarriol
> <esta...@hacme.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >praise be to Mongoose. Now as its a d20 game what else would I need to
> >play it other than the Dredd book itself?
>
> That's what puts me off buying it: that I'd have to buy d20 in order
> to get full use of it. Were it self-contained then I'd be very solely
> tempted to buy the Dredd book.
>
> Hmm. There aren't any plans for a GURPS-powered version, perchance?
> GURPS is a game that I already have.
Why don't you do the D&D3 (d20) to GURPS conversion yourself? Web
sites like http://members.aol.com/BruceG6069/ADnD_to_GURPS.html
already exist to help you crunch the numbers and get a feel for the
conversion work it needs.
Somebody here can probably point out a better site.
--
Guy Robinson
[all standard disclaimers apply]
Andy Dowland
news:e8thdusglbs2cpsfi...@4ax.com:
> On Wed, 8 May 2002 09:07:57 +0000 (UTC), "martin arnold"
> <signofth...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>What a shame, firstly i have no doubt that a judge dredd game would be
>>better served with its own mechanics more suited to the setting and the
>>game.
>
> Maybe it would, Martin. I take that on board. Frankly I am sick to
> death of buying a new system - which I almost do as a hobby in its own
> right - and then having to learn a new set of game mechanics each
> time. Tireseome to the extreme IMO. That's not to say that there
> aren't problems with d20 I grant you.
I agree with the issue of learning a new game system, especially for a game
such as Judge Dredd that's probably not going to be played as an epic
campaign. Taking Call of Cthulthu as an example, I was unsure of the idea
of CoC as a D20 game but I bought the game last Wednesday and ran a one-off
session on Sunday ("The End of Paradise" from the rulebook). Then I
realised the great benefit of using D20, the players (all experienced in
D&D 3e) knew all the rules and I only had to explain the Sanity mechanic.
Consequently the rules part of the game was effectively invisible, I didn't
have to break the mood to explain game rules or look up something in the
new rulebook and the session was very successful.
Andy
Justine Rogers
j...@aaargh.NoBleedinSpam.org says...
> ed <edh...@equus.demon.co.uk> typed:
>
> >The noble "Matthew Sprange" <alt...@clara.net> spake on the day of Tue,
> >7 May 2002 17:32:47 +0100:
> >
> ><snip> Each weighs nearly 3 Kgs (perfect for keeping unruly players - or
> >>Games Masters - in line!) and will cost $100 (yes, the Mongoose will convert
> >>to those of us who still prefer the good old British Pound!), plus shipping.
> >
> >Matthew
> >
> >Now you're just taking the piss
>
> You do have to wonder how much the shipping is on a 3 kg book. I would
> like to see one of these edifices, though perhaps not buy one.
I think I'll wait for 2000ad/Megazine to run the 'Win a metal bound JD
rulebook' competition. :)
--
--- Old WGP page http://www.pepin.demon.co.uk/wolves/index.htm -------
----- This is a public service announcement... with Guitar! ---CB250n-
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Rob Harper
Professor Yaffle wrote...
> There's a pretty good reason for why it's not been done before :-)
> $100 is pretty steep even for something metal bound... it can't be
> costing you much more than 50.
IMO a 100% mark-up on cost price is perfectly reasonable for a
collectors' edition. Assuming your guesstimate is correct.
Rob
Matthew Sprange
> rulebook' competition. :)
No such thing, good buddy :)
Matthew
Matthew Sprange
didn't
> have to break the mood to explain game rules or look up something in the
> new rulebook and the session was very successful.
There is another bonus which must be considered (and which sold it for us,
when we came to consider the d20 System for Judge Dredd).
By using an existing rules system, we do not have to devote pages and pages
to detailing that system - just the changes and modifications needed (new
character classes, feats, that kind of thing). Instead, we can fill 256
pages up with seriously cool stuff about Mega-City One and the game setting
itself.
We have even managed to put Manta Prowl Tanks in :)
Matthew
TC
<LaaaaA...@mice.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 8 May 2002 14:12:44 +0100, Rob Harper wrote
>(in message <Mt9C8.698$k46....@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net>):
>
>> IMO a 100% mark-up on cost price is perfectly reasonable for a
>> collectors' edition. Assuming your guesstimate is correct.
>
> How is 100% profit justified?
It may not be, I agree. However that is the way the world works.
You've never worked in retailing obviously?
James Graham
> > To paraphrase: "The mechanics of this game are not suitable for the
> > setting, but I'm not prepared to find out what they actually are"?
>
> To be fair I think he's saying "the rules aren't built to match the
> setting and I'm not willing to shell out something like 40 quid plus
> to find out what it's like" the two points are quite separate.
The rules are vague enough to fit any setting. There is nothing
particularly "sword and sorcery" about the system. Believe someone who's
actually read the thing.
Either way, if you're /that/ bothered, you can download the rules - *for*
*free* - on the Wizards of the Coast website. So the "I'll have to shell
out £20 for the PHB" line doesn't work either.
James
James Graham
> > ...or, you could possibly just buy the regular edition. I can't
> > believe we're debating the merits of a limited fucking edition! It's
> > /supposed/ to be expensive, for Christ's sake.
>
> I'm debating the limited edition because I think that the limited
> edition is very silly and I have no idea why limited edition should
> necessarily entail higher prices. Surely a special edition is
> defined by the fact that it has a limited print run... if prices then
> go up in the collector's market then fine but I don't think that high
> prices are inherrent in special editions.
Special editions are a way of cashing in on people's
gullibility/greed/obsessiveness. People either buy them because they
reckon they'll make money out of it by selling it on, or out of some
fannish compulsion to own a "definitive" edition. To /not/ bump up the
price on such an item would entirely remove the motivation behind
producing it in the first place.
Who cares? No-one's being forced to buy the thing. I'm sure if it was a
GURPS limited edition, you wouldn't give a shit. But obviously, if it is
D20, it must be /eeeeeeeeeevilll..../
James
James Graham
> > IMO a 100% mark-up on cost price is perfectly reasonable for a
> > collectors' edition. Assuming your guesstimate is correct.
>
> How is 100% profit justified?
Sales. Duh!
You do know how basic market economics works, don't you?
James
Andy Dowland
news:01HW.B8FF05EB0...@news.clara.net:
> On Wed, 8 May 2002 14:12:44 +0100, Rob Harper wrote
> (in message <Mt9C8.698$k46....@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net>):
>
>> IMO a 100% mark-up on cost price is perfectly reasonable for a
>> collectors' edition. Assuming your guesstimate is correct.
>
> How is 100% profit justified?
Not a 100% profit (which isn't possible) but a 100% markup - i.e. you make
something for $50 and then sell it for $100, therefore making $50 profit
which is 100% of the cost. In addition I would assume that the 100% markup
isn't just taken by Mongoose; the distributor and the retailer would all
take a slice before it's bought for $100.
Andy
P.S. Movie Popcorn receives a 400% markup and the cardboard box costs more
than the popcorn inside.
TC
And the figure of $50 profit came from the mighty keyboard of Prof
Yaffle - it is a guesstimate, that's all.
It's possible that the concept will flop, in which case Mongoose will
have a very heavy pile of cr*p on their hands. (I doubt this, but you
never know and this has to be factored into the cost equasion too.)
Personally I'm all for limited editions - I have the GURPS WWII
hardback which I paid over the odds for it. I'm happy, so who cares?
Andy Dowland
> I'm debating the limited edition because I think that the limited
> edition is very silly and I have no idea why limited edition should
> necessarily entail higher prices. Surely a special edition is
> defined by the fact that it has a limited print run... if prices then
> go up in the collector's market then fine but I don't think that high
> prices are inherrent in special editions.
>
If you think it's silly, don't buy it, it's a print run of 200 copies, that
will raise prices and it's also metal bound which will also raise prices.
Basically, if you think it's too expensive, get the regular book.
Andy (who probably will get the regular book as his bookshelves can't take
any more weight)
Andy Dowland
> So why would anyone buy the player's handbook? Can one play Dredd
> with only that download?
I would guess that the number 1 reason to buy the PHB is to play D&D with.
Yes it's possible to play even D&D with just the download, but speaking
personally I prefer getting a real book to a mass of printed A4.
Andy
Marcus Buchanan
"Andy Dowland" <andy.d...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9208BB65CB13Aan...@217.32.252.50...
> - Professor Yaffle - <LaaaaA...@mice.com> wrote in
> news:01HW.B8FF05EB0...@news.clara.net:
>
> > On Wed, 8 May 2002 14:12:44 +0100, Rob Harper wrote
> > (in message <Mt9C8.698$k46....@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net>):
> >
> >> IMO a 100% mark-up on cost price is perfectly reasonable for a
> >> collectors' edition. Assuming your guesstimate is correct.
> >
> > How is 100% profit justified?
>
> Not a 100% profit (which isn't possible) but a 100% markup - i.e. you make
> something for $50 and then sell it for $100, therefore making $50 profit
> which is 100% of the cost. In addition I would assume that the 100%
markup
>
Sorry, your wrong. If you buy something for $50 and sell for $100, then the
total profit you make is not 100%, but 50%.
The reason being that the $50 profit you made is 50% of the overall money
that was acquired by the business (the $100).
It might sound odd, but that is how retailers look at it.
Later,
Marcus.
Killans - First And Last And Always
- Professor Yaffle - <LaaaaA...@mice.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 8 May 2002 14:12:44 +0100, Rob Harper wrote
>(in message <Mt9C8.698$k46....@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net>):
>
>> collectors' edition. Assuming your guesstimate is correct.
>
You don't need to justify profit. If people will pay this much for the
book, then Mongoose deserve all the profit they get from it.
Mike
Andy Dowland
news:BieC8.806$m46....@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk:
>> Not a 100% profit (which isn't possible) but a 100% markup - i.e. you
>> make something for $50 and then sell it for $100, therefore making $50
>> profit which is 100% of the cost. In addition I would assume that the
>> 100% markup
>>
>
> Sorry, your wrong. If you buy something for $50 and sell for $100, then
> the total profit you make is not 100%, but 50%.
> The reason being that the $50 profit you made is 50% of the overall
> money that was acquired by the business (the $100).
> It might sound odd, but that is how retailers look at it.
>
That's what I said - a 100% markup is equal to 50% profit.
Andy
ed
8 May 2002 00:59:51 +0100:
>> <snip> Each weighs nearly 3 Kgs (perfect for keeping unruly players - or
>> >Games Masters - in line!) and will cost $100 (yes, the Mongoose will
>convert
>> >to those of us who still prefer the good old British Pound!), plus
>shipping.
>>
>> Now you're just taking the piss
>
>Well, this depends on your point of view. Metal bound. First time an RPG
>book has been done this way. 3 kg. Fully hinged. We ain't just stuck a
>couple of sheets of metal on this thing. . .
>
You mistake my point. I'm not bothered about the metal binding or the
high price point as such. It's just that you are taunting the Brits with
your use of the Dollar Price on the UK group. This isn't a cross post,
you only posted this here and you say
"Well, here is the price, I know I have an audience here that is getting
mildly miffed at only quoting American release dates, times etc so we'll
only quote Dollars and imply that anybody wanting to use the local
currency is some kind of reactionary dullard."
ed
--
edh...@equus.demon.co.uk | Dragons Rescued | _////
http://www.equus.demon.co.uk/ | Maidens Slain | o_/o ///
For devilbunnies, Diplomacy, RPGs, | Quests P.O.A. | __\ ///__
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ed
08 May 2002 08:21:14 +0100:
>ed wrote:
>> Now you're just taking the piss
>
>Yes, but out of people who are prepared to give them a hundred bucks for
>a metal-bound RPG book. This sounds both justified and very smart to
>me...
as I said I am alleging Mongoose's piss taking is not in the amount, but
in the sole quotation of the Dollar price rather than even giving a
rough conversion rate to Pounds or, for the Europeans here, Euros
Adam Canning
says...
I'll wait till I've had a chance to examine it before claiming there are
other game systems you could probably have fitted in the space needed for
the modifications.
--
Adam
Once you have pulled the pin, Mr Nova Bomb is no longer your friend.
Pookie
"- Professor Yaffle -" <LaaaaA...@mice.com> wrote in message
news:01HW.B8FF23D50...@news.clara.net...
> On Wed, 8 May 2002 18:25:24 +0100, Andy Dowland wrote
> (in message <Xns9208BB65CB13Aan...@217.32.252.50>):
>
> > Not a 100% profit (which isn't possible) but a 100% markup
>
> the price already?
>
> > P.S. Movie Popcorn receives a 400% markup and the cardboard box costs
more
> > than the popcorn inside.
>
disadvantage to popcorn is that faterwards you're stuffed full of nothing
and don't have anything to show for it.
With this limited edition book, well, it is expensive -- and I'm suppressing
my desire to collect -- you have something to show for your money...
> EVERYTHING in cinemas recieves a massive markup. doesn't stop it
> from being gouging.
>
Not so.
Ice cream doesn't.
--
--
Pookie (pw...@blueyonder.co.uk) "Squeak damn you Squeak!!!"
See http://www.chorazin.org.uk/pookie/ for GURPS: Jorune etc
"What part of 'Phn'glue mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wagn'nagl fhtagn' didn't
you understand?"
Matthew Sprange
> high price point as such. It's just that you are taunting the Brits with
> your use of the Dollar Price on the UK group. This isn't a cross post,
> you only posted this here and you say
Not at all - we expect many payments to use PayPal (for credit cards) which
will be by Dollars. We will also be taking cheques, of course, and full
details for that (including, yes, price in good old UK Pounds) will be
included in our mails to all those who have asked for a copy to be reserved.
No taunt intended. . .
Matthew
Matthew Sprange
> newsgroup ANYWAY?
An excellent point. Not that anyone goes to the advert newsgroup :)
Is anyone not content to have companies post here regarding upcoming
products?
Matthew
James Graham
> > Either way, if you're /that/ bothered, you can download the rules -
> > *for* *free* - on the Wizards of the Coast website. So the "I'll have
> > to shell out £20 for the PHB" line doesn't work either.
>
> So why would anyone buy the player's handbook? Can one play Dredd
> with only that download?
Because they like it all being in a book. You're the one who's jumping up
and down shouting "rip off". It's your problem.
James
James Graham
> > You do know how basic market economics works, don't you?
>
> Yes but selling metalbound RPGs is no different to seeling coffees
> that cost 4 quid or cinema popcorn with a massive markup.
Ping! My God, I do believe he's got it.
> OBVIOUSLY Mongoose can sell at any price that idiots are willing to
> pay but I do think it's gouging.
I'm sure Mongoose employees will be able to sleep nights.
James
Nick Middleton
> > So why would anyone buy the player's handbook? Can one play Dredd
> > with only that download?
>
> I would guess that the number 1 reason to buy the PHB is to play D&D with.
> Yes it's possible to play even D&D with just the download, but speaking
> personally I prefer getting a real book to a mass of printed A4.
Possible, but currently rather difficult. Certain fairly key elements of the
D&D system are absent from the SRD (e.g. the experience mechanic, clerics vs
undead, monsters etc). And the terms of the d20 STL are pretty much set up
so that to use it you r game has to "require" the PHB. Go OGL and you don't,
but you lose the advantage of putting the d20 logo on it.
Given that the d20 STL, the OGL and SRD have been available on line for
suffieciently long that even a sceptic like me has got round to reading them
enough to have disabused myself of some of my preconceptions, I remain
utterly baffled why some people still seem unwilling to check the facts
before... oh, yes (or Duh! in modern slang I believe), it's a newsgroup...
;-)
Killans - First And Last And Always
- Professor Yaffle - <LaaaaA...@mice.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 8 May 2002 18:45:43 +0100, James Graham wrote
>(in message
><memo.20020508...@jamesgraham.compulink.co.uk>):
>> To /not/ bump up the
>> price on such an item would entirely remove the motivation behind
>> producing it in the first place.
>
>what I said? I agree with your analysis but it's STILL gouging...
>they can get away with it because that's how capitalism works but
>it's still gouging. I don't think we're disagreeing here.
How is it "gouging"? Nobody's being forced into anything. People
are being offered a product for a price. If they choose to pay that
price, then where's the problem?
Mike
James Graham
(Nick Middleton) wrote:
> Possible, but currently rather difficult. Certain fairly key elements
> of the
> D&D system are absent from the SRD (e.g. the experience mechanic,
> clerics vs
> undead, monsters etc). And the terms of the d20 STL are pretty much set
> up
> so that to use it you r game has to "require" the PHB. Go OGL and you
> don't,
> but you lose the advantage of putting the d20 logo on it.
I take your point about it being incomplete, but it appears to be growing.
Slight correction: the STL doesn't insist your game requires the use of
the PHB, it insists that you put "requires the use of the PHB" on the
cover. A subtle - yet distinct - difference!
James
Matthew Sprange
> adverts dear heart :-)
They seem to like talking about this one :)
Matthew
Timothy JW Smith
To quote the FAQ on Advertising:
>* Advertising:
>
>Short one-off announcements of relevant products, services and events,
>inviting e-mail enquiries or suggesting URLs for further information,
>will be allowed. Lengthy and/or off-topic posts will not be
>welcome. Advertisements for clubs and social events may be repeated at
>fortnightly or longer intervals.
>
>No other advertising, especially offers of goods for sale, should be
>posted to this newsgroup; newsgroups such as uk.adverts.games.roleplay
>or rec.games.frp.marketplace could be used instead. Messages posted to
>those groups must not be cross- posted to uk.games.roleplay.
I'm happy with the continuation of your advertising and I'm happy with
you posting to the group, but I'm afraid Matthew, that you tend to post
the lengthy style email, rather than the "Look at this *cool* product
we've developed, check out this URL", which does contravene the FAQ.
Unfortunately, this thread has once again opened the "D20 is god, bow
down and worship" argument, and there's still those of us out there,
smashing the altars and setting fire to the churches as we appose the
"thou shalt play D20 and nothing else" commandment.
But back to the original comment, perhaps look a bit more at the url
idea.
Tim.
David Damerell
>On Wed, 8 May 2002 18:45:43 +0100, James Graham wrote
>that cost 4 quid or cinema popcorn with a massive markup.
In fact, those cases aren't the same. If you don't like the 4-quid coffee,
you can go elsewhere. If you want to eat in the cinema, you're
specifically restricted to their own food; so that _is_ closer to gouging
- but you _can_ always go to another cinema.
Now a publisher has a monopoly on any book they publish - but in this case
you have a cheaper option available to obtain the same content, so it can't
be gouging to have a metal-bound book for $100, $1,000, or $10,000 - if
you don't like it, you can get the exact same thing for a cheaper price.
--
David Damerell <dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> flcl?
David Damerell
>>>>Games Masters - in line!) and will cost $100 (yes, the Mongoose will
>>>>convert to those of us who still prefer the good old British Pound!),
>high price point as such. It's just that you are taunting the Brits with
>your use of the Dollar Price on the UK group.
Why not? That _is_ the real price for any sensible games company.
>"Well, here is the price, I know I have an audience here that is getting
>mildly miffed at only quoting American release dates, times etc so we'll
>only quote Dollars and imply that anybody wanting to use the local
>currency is some kind of reactionary dullard."
I think the word 'good' and the phrase 'those of _us_' imply that's not
quite their point of view.
David Damerell
>>Because they like it all being in a book. You're the one who's jumping up
>>and down shouting "rip off". It's your problem.
>and went and had it bound it would still cost less than buying the
>PHB.
When you are an adult you will probably assign some value to your own
time.
martin arnold
> Point One: Surely only the very stupid would think that
> because the game uses d20 that you'd be obliged to use D&D
> elements.
>
Well you do in that you need the basic rulebook.
> Point Two: Yeah, cos they'd look really dumb and out of
> place next to muties, aliens, cyborgs, robots, dog vultures,
> apes, zombies, Dark Judges and assorted wierd psi phenomena.
>
ACtually they would. Thats why i hate shadowrun. And not everything that has
been written in a JD story has worked either.
martin
martin arnold
> setting, but I'm not prepared to find out what they actually are"?
>
Why do you assume i know nothing about the mechanics? d20 is hardly unknown.
I just have no wish to use them; there are way better systems for dredd.
> There have been several Dredd strips featuring dragons, and at least one
> strip featuring elves (the "Harry Snotter" parody). One of the great
> things about the Dredd setting is that more or less anything goes. I
> suggest that this post is again rooted in ignorance rather than actual
> knowledge of the subject.
>
Oh get off your high horse.
Martin
martin arnold
> rules-set - what made you think it meant you had to have dragons, spells,
> swords, etc, in Mega-City One?
>
Dont be stupid, i never said you HAD to include them.
Martin
martin arnold
a deal that i cannot live without it. Had the company been more imaginative
in designing the game from the ground up and not relying on an arbitrary
overly complex and non-atmospheric (ie not written with the setting in mind,
unlike Castle Falkenstein for example), then id be interested enough to look
at it.
martin
"James Graham" <james...@cix.co.uk> wrote in message
news:memo.20020508...@jamesgraham.compulink.co.uk...
> In article <01HW.B8FF05B80...@news.clara.net>,
> LaaaaA...@mice.com (- Professor Yaffle -) wrote:
>
> > > To paraphrase: "The mechanics of this game are not suitable for the
> > > setting, but I'm not prepared to find out what they actually are"?
> >
> > To be fair I think he's saying "the rules aren't built to match the
> > setting and I'm not willing to shell out something like 40 quid plus
> > to find out what it's like" the two points are quite separate.
>
> The rules are vague enough to fit any setting. There is nothing
> particularly "sword and sorcery" about the system. Believe someone who's
> actually read the thing.
>
> Either way, if you're /that/ bothered, you can download the rules - *for*
> *free* - on the Wizards of the Coast website. So the "I'll have to shell
> out £20 for the PHB" line doesn't work either.
>
> James
Matthew Sprange
Okay. Fair enough.
What _are_ you saying?
Matthew
Matthew Sprange
I swear, I everyday this place gets closer and closer to RGMW :)
Matthew
DC
That D20 sucks most likely, and Im afraid I have to agree with him.
Luck,
--
_______________________________________________
DC
"You can not reason a man out of a position he did not reach through
reason"
"Don't use a big word where a diminutive one will suffice."
"A man with a watch knows what time it is. A man with two watches is
never sure." Segal's Law
Robin Low
<sws9...@met.rdg.ac.uk> writes
>That D20 sucks most likely, and Im afraid I have to agree with him.
I have problems with things like character classes and level-based
character development, but the basic mechanic of rolling 1D20 and adding
modifiers, with the aim of achieving a target number for success or
competing against an opponent's roll seems a rather good one to me. It
might be worth targeting criticism of D20 (or are we really talking
about D&D 3rd Ed. and dungeon bashing?) more selectively.
Regards
Robin
--
Robin Low
Rob Harper
> How is 100% profit justified?
That was 100% *markup* not profit -- important distinction.
But seeing as you asked, all businesses have overheads, and
all product has to contribute towards this. Part of the cost
of producing a book is also administrative overhead, which
divided over a print run of 5000 isn't too bad -- across 200
copies it's a fair bit. I'm sure you understand that.
Plus, of course, producing a product involves an investment of
time, money and materials, and the revenue generated by that
product must yield a decent return -- particularly in the case
that the product might be considered "risky" (a metal bound
RPG book sounds like it could fit this).
But above all this, it is the job of a business to generate
the largest possible profit by selling a product or service.
This can either be by selling large volumes, or at large
markups. Either way, the price must be one that the market
will bear. The good people at Mongoose have done the
calculations and named a price. If they have done it right,
they will sell their book to people who judge that the price
is appropriate for the product. If they got it wrong, they
will probably end up selling them off at discount prices
later.
The sales pitch has been made. I do not believe that in
this case the product would give me good value for money,
and clearly Yaffle doesn't either, but maybe there are 200
people out there who disagree.
Rob
Hikarr
> as I said I am alleging Mongoose's piss taking is not in the amount,
> but in the sole quotation of the Dollar price rather than even giving
> a rough conversion rate to Pounds or, for the Europeans here, Euros
>
> ed
As a Swede, I'd rather get dollar prices than euro ones,
since I'm more likely to pay in dollars (aren't credit cards neat?) =)
--
Hikarr, the Silly Swede
Matthew Sprange
> character development, but the basic mechanic of rolling 1D20 and adding
It may be worth pointing out, too, that the D20 System is modular and,
indeed, mutable. There is no reason to have character classes or levels, if
you do not want them. I know of a couple of games coming soon that fit this
mould. We played around with the core d20 rules for Dredd - as a quick
illustration, armour in Judge Dredd does not make you harder to hit but
rather absorbs damage.
Overall, it can be pretty much what you want it to be.
Matthew
Ian Sturrock
Yaffle - <LaaaaA...@mice.com> gibbers
>On Thu, 9 May 2002 11:16:18 +0100, Matthew Sprange wrote
>(in message <102094019...@eos.uk.clara.net>):
>
>> They seem to like talking about this one :)
>
>discussing how you're a bunch of yank-panderers or people who gouge
>their fans while systematicaally pleading to be the "local team" is
>good publicity because it IS publicity?
Any thread in which you systematically slag off the company involved is
probably good publicity, since you are clearly such a complete 'nana.
--
"Such a day, rum all out - Our company somewhat sober - A damn`d confusion
among us! - Rogues a-plotting - Great talk of separation - so I looked sharp
for a prize - Such a day took one, with a great deal of liquor on board, so
kept the company hot, damned hot; then all things went well again." (Teach)
Andy Dowland
news:01HW.B90082410...@news.clara.net:
> On Thu, 9 May 2002 11:47:49 +0100, David Damerell wrote
> (in message <ztz*1t...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>):
>
>> you don't like it, you can get the exact same thing for a cheaper price.
>
> well no, you can't.
So you DO want the metal bound limited edition of the Judge Dredd RPG then
but you're moaning because it costs too much. I want a Ferrari too, but
the damn gouging garages charge too much. I'm in full agreement in your
battle against the running dogs of capitalism.
Andy
Matthew Sprange
> discussing how you're a bunch of yank-panderers or people who gouge
> their fans while systematicaally pleading to be the "local team" is
> good publicity because it IS publicity?
Any publicity is better than no publicity. Ask Mandelson. . .
Matthew
Matthew Sprange
> series so it's not like it's acting out of character :-)
One of our most popular series. . .
> B) I seem to remember mention of how the license is so
> expensive that there's no way it could possibly exist without the
> sales bonus of being D20.
No idea who said that - I didn't. . .
Matthew
Guy Robinson
news:102097566...@eos.uk.clara.net...
> > B) I seem to remember mention of how the license is so
> > expensive that there's no way it could possibly exist without the
> > sales bonus of being D20.
>
> No idea who said that - I didn't. . .
Licenses are reputed to be expensive but perhaps IPC comics (or however
currently owns 2000AD) *wanted* role-playing games of their characters to
exist. Maybe Mongoose bought them cheaper in bulk?
I think someone should ask Tharg ...
--
Guy Robinson, Terran
[all standard disclaimers apply]
martin arnold
> Relax, it's only a game. And since you aren't going to spend any money
> on it, I'd relax about it even more if I were you.
>
well duh.
martin
TC
Interesting, well thought out, lucid reply.
TC
>
>martin
>
-----------== Posted via Newsgroups.Com - Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
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TC
When Bagpuss sleeps, Yaffle has to sleep, and while he sleeps he
dreams - and makes up all kinds of stuff, Matthew. :-)
TC
Stephen Pettifer
PoC
anything if you spread it out over the next 20, 50 or 100 years. The sale of
2000 AD #2 should cover it -and it will still be unusual when descendants
ask - what was role-playing?
If JD is metal bound, what's going to be done to Slaine?
PoC
"Matthew Sprange" <alt...@clara.net> wrote in message
news:102097566...@eos.uk.clara.net...
Matthew Sprange
Tharg isn't available. We are still debating what prestige classes he ought
to possess. . .
Matthew
Matthew Sprange
> >
It is funny, isn't it? What do you think they will do next? :)
Matthew
Matthew Sprange
> dreams - and makes up all kinds of stuff, Matthew. :-)
I still want to do Bagpuss d20. . .
Matthew
Matthew Sprange
> anything if you spread it out over the next 20, 50 or 100 years. The sale
of
> 2000 AD #2 should cover it -and it will still be unusual when descendants
> ask - what was role-playing?
Absolutely. I keep telling myself that whenever I look at my newly
purchased 1st edition D&D :)
> If JD is metal bound, what's going to be done to Slaine?
Well, we have been having a lot of discussion about that. Someone started
talking about leather. Bit boring, I thought - what about fur from a Wild
Boar?
I'll let you know :)
Matthew
Harvey Kennett
now *that* would be a real collector's edition !
ps...I say hurrah for the metal-bound JD tome. I've always felt kinda gooey
about anything "reassuringly expensive".
:-)
H
"PoC" <r...@skai.net> wrote in message
news:abetca$608$1...@paris.btinternet.com...
Harvey Kennett
H
"Matthew Sprange" <alt...@clara.net> wrote in message
news:10208986...@iapetus.uk.clara.net...
> > You mistake my point. I'm not bothered about the metal binding or the
> > high price point as such. It's just that you are taunting the Brits with
> > your use of the Dollar Price on the UK group. This isn't a cross post,
> > you only posted this here and you say
>
> Not at all - we expect many payments to use PayPal (for credit cards)
which
> will be by Dollars. We will also be taking cheques, of course, and full
> details for that (including, yes, price in good old UK Pounds) will be
> included in our mails to all those who have asked for a copy to be
reserved.
>
> No taunt intended. . .
>
> Matthew
>
>
Harvey Kennett
>...and there's still those of us out there smashing the altars and setting
fire to the churches as we appose the "thou shalt play D20 and nothing else"
commandment.
How considerate to those who actually *want* to play D20 and have embraced
it. Am I supposed to stop supporting D20 in order for the non-D20 companies
to survive ? Isn't that a bit like buying BetaMax when there was a dual
video market just because you disliked VHS ? Surely customers have the
choice of moving to the market that suits their purposes (eg...I avoid VHS
in favour of DVD). Some years down the road, D20 will go the way of the dodo
and a new standard will emerge. I personally don't want to be lumbered with
a dinosaur. Change is good (although not necessarily for the sake of change)
but the original D&D system needed revamping...it was tired and decrepit..
I can't ever say I've got "gooey-eyed" about a system, no matter how
elegant, and that includes D20. If D30 comes out in 3 years time and looks
like being the new standard, then I'll upgrade.
I guess some folks somehow "connect" on a deeply personal and emotional
level to a set of abstract rules, but that's not my cup of tea.
H
Guy Robinson
Tharg would be Lawful Neutral and probably have the Wierd Alien and
Enlightened Editor prestige classes.
However here is the big question: Will you have stats for the Gronk and
Walter the Wobot?
--
Guy Robinson, Terran
[all standard right names for terrans apply]
Killans - First And Last And Always
Timothy JW Smith <tjws...@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>Unfortunately, this thread has once again opened the "D20 is god, bow
>down and worship" argument, and there's still those of us out there,
>smashing the altars and setting fire to the churches as we appose the
>"thou shalt play D20 and nothing else" commandment.
Oh, grow up. Nobody on this thread has remotely suggested that D20 is
some kind of holy system, raised above all others - or even that it
is the best system around. And your characterisation of yourself and
others who don't like D20 as some kind of rebellious free-thinkers
bravely opposing some totalitarian oppression is so ludicrous it's
pathetic.
Mike
Matthew Sprange
Unlikely at this time :)
Matthew
Matthew Sprange
> Walter the Wobot?
Walter has only just been dropped out of a forthcoming supplement, actually,
though no doubt he will be back!
Matthew
Guy Robinson
Hopefully you will room in your production schedules for a supplement on the
lighter side of Dredd, including such things as Automatic Nose Whippers and
the status of 2000AD inside the MegaCity.
--
Guy Robinson
[all standard disclaimers apply]
DC
> > If JD is metal bound, what's going to be done to Slaine?
>
> Well, we have been having a lot of discussion about that. Someone started
> talking about leather. Bit boring, I thought - what about fur from a Wild
> Boar?
But then you'll get the veggies up in arms!!
WHat are you doing in terms of systems changes for slaine? Or is it just
a world book for D&D?
--
_______________________________________________
DC
"You can not reason a man out of a position he did not reach through
reason"
"Don't use a big word where a diminutive one will suffice."
"A man with a watch knows what time it is. A man with two watches is
never sure." Segal's Law
DC
Yeah he's just like a 4 star nazi general sucking on a lollipop!! Oops,
Godwin's Law ... etc, etc...
DC
> I can't ever say I've got "gooey-eyed" about a system, no matter how
> elegant, and that includes D20. If D30 comes out in 3 years time and looks
> like being the new standard, then I'll upgrade.
Oh dear, D20 is a standard now? WotC are not Microsoft you know!
> I guess some folks somehow "connect" on a deeply personal and emotional
> level to a set of abstract rules, but that's not my cup of tea.
Its just some people like the rules to evoke a feeling which fits the
genre of the game.
Matthew Sprange
the
> lighter side of Dredd, including such things as Automatic Nose Whippers
and
> the status of 2000AD inside the MegaCity.
Heh - I regret to inform that stats for Automatic Nose Whippers will not be
a priority :)
Matthew
Matthew Sprange
Wild
> > Boar?
>
> But then you'll get the veggies up in arms!!
Heh :)
> WHat are you doing in terms of systems changes for slaine? Or is it just
> a world book for D&D?
Well, I am not actually developing it - Ian Sturrock is in charge of that.
However, due to the nature of the genre, it will be closer to D&D than Judge
Dredd is. That said, because it is a new game, we are still free to alter
things where we like. Insults and taunts, for instance, have a tangible
effect in combat, characters can warp out, mass combat rules are included,
utilising Earth Power is nothing like the magic system if D&D, etc. . .
Basically, if it needs changing, we will change it :)
Matthew
Matthew Sprange
> others who don't like D20 as some kind of rebellious free-thinkers
> bravely opposing some totalitarian oppression is so ludicrous it's
> pathetic.
Romantic, though :)
Matthew
David Damerell
>On Thu, 9 May 2002 11:47:49 +0100, David Damerell wrote
>>you don't like it, you can get the exact same thing for a cheaper price.
>well no, you can't.
Same content, and it's the content they have a State-enforced monopoly on.
Not the same metal binding, but there's no monopoly on metal bindings.
--
David Damerell <dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> flcl?
David Damerell
>Unfortunately, this thread has once again opened the "D20 is god, bow
>down and worship" argument, and there's still those of us out there,
>smashing the altars and setting fire to the churches as we appose the
>"thou shalt play D20 and nothing else" commandment.
This is a splendid example of the straw man approach; really laying on the
hyperbole distracts neatly from the fact that no-one actually holds the
position you're opposing.
martin arnold
>
pointless his comment was with one swift zen-like stroke.
it saves me having to write stuff like this usually.
martin
Rob Harper
DC wrote...
> Yeah he's just like a 4 star nazi general sucking on a lollipop!! Oops,
> Godwin's Law ... etc, etc...
It doesn't count if you invoke it intentionally.
Rob
Marcus L. Rowland
Yaffle - <LaaaaA...@mice.com> writes
>
> I do, time is omney and time + the cost of downloading and having
>bound a copy of D20 rules is still less expensive than buying the PHB.
Reminds me to ask, does anyone have a URL for the rules, and if it's a
PDF is there an A4 version? Just got a ten megabit fibre connection at
work, might as well use it for something interesting...
--
Marcus L. Rowland http://www.ffutures.demon.co.uk/
Forgotten Futures - The Scientific Romance Role Playing Game
"He put his hand into his waistcoat and pulled out his heart. It
was fat and pink, and the Princess did not like the look of it."
- E. Nesbit: The Magician's Heart
Matthew Bloomer
>And the figure of $50 profit came from the mighty keyboard of Prof
>Yaffle - it is a guesstimate, that's all.
Just what is a guesstimate? Is it a guessed estimate? But isn't an
estimate simply an educated guess? Hmm. A guessed educated guess.
We're entering the world of self-evidence or tautology.
I shall assume that a guesstimate is a very shaky estimate, and that
the 'guess' part is there to emphasise its unreliability.
--
# Matthew Bloomer, philosophy undergraduate #
# of Derwent College, University of York #
# maj...@btinternet.com / mjb...@york.ac.uk #
# http://www-users.york.ac.uk/~mjb135/ #
TC
<mjb...@nospam.york.ac.uk> wrote:
>On Wed, 08 May 2002 18:37:46 +0100, TC <t...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>And the figure of $50 profit came from the mighty keyboard of Prof
>>Yaffle - it is a guesstimate, that's all.
>
>Just what is a guesstimate? Is it a guessed estimate? But isn't an
>estimate simply an educated guess? Hmm. A guessed educated guess.
>We're entering the world of self-evidence or tautology.
You have, it seems. Some of us appeared to have got hung up on the
idea that Mongoose stood to make $50 profit , but in fact there is no
basis for this assumption.
>I shall assume that a guesstimate is a very shaky estimate, and that
>the 'guess' part is there to emphasise its unreliability.
Er, yes . . . well done! I do believe you got it!
Guesstimate - an estimate based largely on incomplete information or
evidence (informal)
Encarta® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1999 Microsoft Corporation.
All rights reserved. Developed for Microsoft by Bloomsbury Publishing
Plc.
TC
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Nick Middleton
"Marcus L. Rowland" <mrow...@ffutures.demon.co.uk> wrote in message <snip>
> Reminds me to ask, does anyone have a URL for the rules, and if it's a
> PDF is there an A4 version? Just got a ten megabit fibre connection at
> work, might as well use it for something interesting...
Go to the d20 game bit of wizards site and the section called SRD ("System
Reference Document"). It is a collection of rtf files.
estarriol
endary.freeserve.co.uk> writes
>"Matthew Sprange" <alt...@clara.net> wrote in message
>news:102098854...@demeter.uk.clara.net...
>> > I think someone should ask Tharg ...
>>
>> Tharg isn't available. We are still debating what prestige classes he
>ought
>> to possess. . .
>
>Tharg would be Lawful Neutral and probably have the Wierd Alien and
>Enlightened Editor prestige classes.
>
>However here is the big question: Will you have stats for the Gronk and
>Walter the Wobot?
>
as Jonny Alpha has a lot of roleplaying potential!
--
estarriol
Andy Dowland
news:01HW.B902F5280...@news.clara.net:
> On Wed, 8 May 2002 19:34:00 +0100, Andy Dowland wrote
> (in message <Xns9208C7068AEC1an...@217.32.252.50>):
>
>> I would guess that the number 1 reason to buy the PHB is to play D&D
>> with.
>
> but doesn't DD have a separate PHB? Or is the D20 PHB the DD PHB?
> if it is it strikes me as a bit of a swizz... I can understand buying
> the basic rules and then buying supplements with settings and
> character classes but basically buying the D20 rules and paying for a
> lot of guff you're not necessarily going to use is a bit dodgy.
That's what I'm saying, I don't think anyone has bought the D&D PHB simply
to play any of the other D20 games.
>> Yes it's possible to play even D&D with just the download, but
>> speaking personally I prefer getting a real book to a mass of printed
>> A4.
>
> Yeah but are you willing to pay 20 quid for it? :-)
Yes, I would be, I use the D&D PHB very often, and it's a lot easier to
handle one book.
Andy
Marcus L. Rowland
Yaffle - <LaaaaA...@mice.com> writes
>
>> No idea who said that - I didn't. . .
>
> No, Marcus Rowland said it, my mistake.
I _guessed_ it, going by what I know about other licences.
Matthew Bloomer
wrote:
>Why don't you do the D&D3 (d20) to GURPS conversion yourself?
I could, but I am lazy; I would rather be playing the game than
converting things to fit it. I doubt that I am alone in holding such
a mentality. Creating a world from scratch is one thing - I am
nurturing it all there. Modifying somebody else's is more of a chore
than fun, unfortunately for me.