How to cancel CAMRA subscription ?
bat...@bat.mobile.invalid
I can't face another year of What's Brewing, probably
the most insipid campaign publication I've ever read.
PeterE
news:42769971$0$38040$bed6...@news.gradwell.net
> Who do I contact to cancel my CAMRA subscription ?
>
> I can't face another year of What's Brewing, probably
> the most insipid campaign publication I've ever read.
If paying by cheque, don't pay when it's due for renewal.
If paying by direct debit, tell your bank to cancel it.
Not difficult.
In what areas do you feel "What's Brewing" should have been less insipid?
--
http://www.stockportpubs.org.uk
"If a river bridge were not guarded by a parapet, the slackness of the
defaulting authority deserves the blame, not the people who fall in" -
Lieut. Col. Mervyn O'Gorman.
Michael Jones
news:d5676p$iui$1...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
> <bat...@bat.mobile.invalid> wrote in message
> news:42769971$0$38040$bed6...@news.gradwell.net
> > Who do I contact to cancel my CAMRA subscription ?
> >
> > I can't face another year of What's Brewing, probably
> > the most insipid campaign publication I've ever read.
>
> If paying by cheque, don't pay when it's due for renewal.
>
> If paying by direct debit, tell your bank to cancel it.
>
before your What's Brewing subscription can be cancelled.
PeterE
>
> Of course if you are a Life Member you will have to kill yourself first
> before your What's Brewing subscription can be cancelled.
But to cancel a Life Membership would be cutting off your nose to spite your
face, as they would still enjoy the benefit of the funds.
(I'm a life member, btw)
bat...@bat.mobile.invalid
> If paying by direct debit, tell your bank to cancel it.
>
> Not difficult.
Good. Thanks for that.
> In what areas do you feel "What's Brewing" should have been less insipid?
Most of the CAMRA newspaper is purely marketing and advertising for the
benefit of the brewers and it's very tiresome wading through so much
fluff and gossip looking for interesting content about real ale.
If I may use the 'b' word... I find What's Brewing boring.
I've got a number of excellent books published by CAMRA, some of the
going back to the 70s. Perhaps my preferred method of reading
is not the newspaper or magazine format, but the book ! :-)
Michael Jones
> "Michael Jones" <michael.jone...@tesco.net> wrote in message
> >
> > Of course if you are a Life Member you will have to kill yourself first
> > before your What's Brewing subscription can be cancelled.
>
> But to cancel a Life Membership would be cutting off your nose to spite
your
> face, as they would still enjoy the benefit of the funds.
>
> (I'm a life member, btw)
>
stop What's Brewing arriving every month.
Prometheus
bat...@bat.mobile.invalid writes
You could always throw it away unopened and continue to support the
campaign through your membership fee and contributing to the size of the
membership, unless of course you feel that your vicarious pleasure for
up to an hour each month is more important than supporting the campaign.
--
Ian G8ILZ
Saxman
> Most of the CAMRA newspaper is purely marketing and advertising for the
> benefit of the brewers and it's very tiresome wading through so much
> fluff and gossip looking for interesting content about real ale.
>
> If I may use the 'b' word... I find What's Brewing boring.
>
> I've got a number of excellent books published by CAMRA, some of the
> going back to the 70s. Perhaps my preferred method of reading
> is not the newspaper or magazine format, but the book ! :-)
It's no different to any other trade magazine. They have all got to
sound upbeat. That's their purpose.
If it's that bad, just put it on the pile of newspapers for re-cycling.
bat...@bat.mobile.invalid
>> I've got a number of excellent books published by CAMRA, some of the
>> going back to the 70s. Perhaps my preferred method of reading
>> is not the newspaper or magazine format, but the book ! :-)
>
> It's no different to any other trade magazine. They have all got to
> sound upbeat. That's their purpose.
>
> If it's that bad, just put it on the pile of newspapers for re-cycling.
I think the point is really that I'm not being served, as a member,
by CAMRA and, in any case, I don't want to encourage CAMRA to be
any more wasteful than they are.
This is 2005 and CAMRA has been in business for over thirty years.
If CAMRA can't organise a means whereby a member can opt out of their
What's Brewing mail shots, then CAMRA are unable to organise the
proverbial piss up in a microbrewery.
Stephen Osborn
> <bat...@bat.mobile.invalid> wrote in message
> news:42769971$0$38040$bed6...@news.gradwell.net
>
>>Who do I contact to cancel my CAMRA subscription ?
>>
>>I can't face another year of What's Brewing, probably
>>the most insipid campaign publication I've ever read.
>
>
> If paying by cheque, don't pay when it's due for renewal.
>
> If paying by direct debit, tell your bank to cancel it.
No. Standing Orders are originated at the bank and are cancelled by
contacting the bank.
Direct Debits are originated by the organisation collecting the money
[1] and are cancelled by contacting that organisation. As a general
rule it worth copying the cancellation letter to your bank. Then if the
originator does not cancel the DD [2] the bank knows that you have
jumped through the relevant hoops and will stop payment when you ask
them to.
1. Making things cheaper for the banks, hence they are so keen on DDs.
2. For whatever reason, corruption / incompetence / etc.
--
regards
Stephen
Roy Bailey
bat...@bat.mobile.invalid writes
[snipped]
>
>I think the point is really that I'm not being served, as a member,
>by CAMRA and, in any case, I don't want to encourage CAMRA to be
>any more wasteful than they are.
>
>This is 2005 and CAMRA has been in business for over thirty years.
>
>If CAMRA can't organise a means whereby a member can opt out of their
>What's Brewing mail shots, then CAMRA are unable to organise the
>proverbial piss up in a microbrewery.
What rubbish! Trying to filter out members who do not wish to receive a
newsletter can be an expensive and time consuming operation that would cost more
than sending out the magazine.
'What's Brewing' is sent to a mailing organisation after it is printed, and they
presumably work from a database of members. Why CAMRA's administration should
have to go to the trouble to draw up another database of just those members who
want 'What's Brewing' is beyond me. Why not just give your copy to a local pub,
tourist information office, youth club, hospital or some place where people
might be interested in it?
I don't know in what respect you feel that you are not being served as a member,
but I am happy that the cause of real ale, real cider, and good pubs is being
well served by the Campaign in general. I get the distinct impression that you
are looking for any excuse to criticise CAMRA and cancel your membership.
Good riddance!
--
Roy Bailey
West Berkshire.
<roy (dot) bailey (at) freeuk (dot) com>
JohnB
>
> In article <427725ed$0$38040$bed6...@news.gradwell.net>,
> bat...@bat.mobile.invalid writes
> [snipped]
> >
> >I think the point is really that I'm not being served, as a member,
> >by CAMRA and, in any case, I don't want to encourage CAMRA to be
> >any more wasteful than they are.
> >
> >This is 2005 and CAMRA has been in business for over thirty years.
> >
> >If CAMRA can't organise a means whereby a member can opt out of their
> >What's Brewing mail shots, then CAMRA are unable to organise the
> >proverbial piss up in a microbrewery.
>
> What rubbish! Trying to filter out members who do not wish to receive a
> newsletter can be an expensive and time consuming operation that would cost more
> than sending out the magazine.
There are organisations that manage to offer a reduced membership fee if
the magazine (or other benefits) are not required.
> 'What's Brewing' is sent to a mailing organisation after it is printed, and they
> presumably work from a database of members. Why CAMRA's administration should
> have to go to the trouble to draw up another database of just those members who
> want 'What's Brewing' is beyond me.
An organisation that adjusts to what its members require by offering
different levels of service/benefits can actually increase membership.
It does need some forward thinking rather than following the 'we've
always done it this way' line of thought, all too common within some bodies.
> I don't know in what respect you feel that you are not being served as a member,
It would be interesting to know.
> but I am happy that the cause of real ale, real cider, and good pubs is being
> well served by the Campaign in general. I get the distinct impression that you
> are looking for any excuse to criticise CAMRA and cancel your membership.
> Good riddance!
Is that really necessary?
You should make clear that you only speaking as an individual and not as
a CAMRA member.
John B
Neil Smith [MVP Digital Media]
>In article <427725ed$0$38040$bed6...@news.gradwell.net>,
>bat...@bat.mobile.invalid writes
>[snipped]
>>
>>I think the point is really that I'm not being served, as a member,
>>by CAMRA and, in any case, I don't want to encourage CAMRA to be
>>any more wasteful than they are.
>>
>>This is 2005 and CAMRA has been in business for over thirty years.
>>
>>If CAMRA can't organise a means whereby a member can opt out of their
>>What's Brewing mail shots, then CAMRA are unable to organise the
>>proverbial piss up in a microbrewery.
>
>What rubbish! Trying to filter out members who do not wish to receive a
>newsletter can be an expensive and time consuming operation that would cost more
>than sending out the magazine.
Nonsense. Any good mailing list manager offers the facility to flag
user records as 'do not mail' and then to mailmerge the resulting
recordset to mailing labels.
>'What's Brewing' is sent to a mailing organisation after it is printed, and they
>presumably work from a database of members. Why CAMRA's administration should
>have to go to the trouble to draw up another database of just those members who
>want 'What's Brewing' is beyond me.
There's no excuse for not offering this option via the website's
subscription area, and generating the mail list for the direct mail
organisation directly from that.
In fact it's counterproductive not to do so, because of the likelihood
of keying errors, and the requirement to have somebody manually 'chug'
the database each month increases the chance of errors.
Cheers - Neil Smith
[PHP/MySQL Web Developer]
bat...@bat.mobile.invalid
>> Good riddance!
>
> Is that really necessary?
> You should make clear that you only speaking as an individual and not as
> a CAMRA member.
Don't you mean "CAMRA official"...
Was that boorish noise coming from the Press Officer for CAMRA West Berkshire ?
It really reflects badly on CAMRA as an organisation to see this type of
behaviour in public places. It's very off putting to turn up at CAMRA
festivals and see prize-winners and guest speakers abused by being booed
or heckled. Always a few bad apples in the barrel in any group though.
Regarding my desire to opt-out of CAMRA's What's Brewing mail shots, I
don't think it's a very unusual request and it's terribly
wasteful just to bin the newspapers on receipt of them.
For an organisation that claims to be very effective at campaigning,
CAMRA seem particularly inept at managing new technology. I really
mean that sincerely... just look at the facts. It's 2005, is there
a good, uptodate e-newsletter sent to members or prospective members ?
No, afaict. I've seen tiny organisations with a few hundred members produce
excellent e-newsletters and fresh newsworthy online content.
CAMRA seem to be fixated with the old print press, and I guess it's
something to do with the organisation's historical legacy and the
influence of old-time journalists who helped lay the foundations.
It's the "we've always done it this way" mentality, as some one else
in this thread alluded to.
What means are being used to distribute mailing list messages regarding
CAMRA branches ? Can you believe it... Yahoogroups. So, you pay
your subscription rate of nearly twenty quid a year, and you are part
of a massive UK organisation, and CAMRA HQ sanctions the use of a
commercial American mailing list which, if you use it, slaps bizarre
advertising at the footer of each message. It's almost surreal.
CAMRA own the domain camra.org.uk and I see no particular reason
why they can't manage their own mailing lists so that members get
the best possible service. It's hardly rocket science. It doesn't
cost the earth. It's really embarrassing to be part of a movement
which takes such a visibly amateurish approach to communication.
Rob Shanks
<bat...@bat.mobile.invalid> wrote
CAMRA own the domain camra.org.uk and I see no particular reason
> why they can't manage their own mailing lists so that members get
> the best possible service. It's hardly rocket science. It doesn't
> cost the earth. It's really embarrassing to be part of a movement
> which takes such a visibly amateurish approach to communication.
>
Gosh as simple as that eh?
Have you not considered that CAMRA size wise at the moment is too small to
commit resources to it, but too big to use volunteers to give an acceptable
service. I'm sure it is easy to set up a group with a few subscribers.
Also don't forget there are CAMRA members out there with no access to the
net who might regard it a waste of resources to supply such a service when
there is no proven demand.
It is your decision to leave the campaign, but I suspect your 'protest' will
not be noticed by that cause of action. Better to be in it if you want to
have influence and gain support then just sounding negative by moaning on a
news group
In fact if it is so simple why not stayin CAMRA, offer your services and
proof how easy it is?
Rob Shanks
Roy Bailey
bat...@bat.mobile.invalid writes
>JohnB <nos...@here.com> wrote:
>
>>> Good riddance!
>>
>> Is that really necessary?
>> You should make clear that you only speaking as an individual and not as
>> a CAMRA member.
>
>Don't you mean "CAMRA official"...
>
>Was that boorish noise coming from the Press Officer for CAMRA West Berkshire ?
>
bat...@bat.mobile.invalid
> Have you not considered that CAMRA size wise at the moment is too small to
> commit resources to it, but too big to use volunteers to give an acceptable
> service. I'm sure it is easy to set up a group with a few subscribers.
Are we part of the same CAMRA, the Campaign for Real Ale which signed up
the 75,000th member during March this year ? That's a fair sized
campaign group.
> Also don't forget there are CAMRA members out there with no access to the
> net who might regard it a waste of resources to supply such a service when
> there is no proven demand.
Yes, I totally agree with you that resources should not be wasted, hence
I believe CAMRA members should be offered the *option* of opting-out of
mail shots for publications like What's Brewing which exist primarily to
serve the interests of advertisers and producers.
Printing newspapers costs a good few shillings more than creating online
content and allow members to *choose* the content they want to read.
Regarding the demand for online services for CAMRA members, I may be
misinterpreting search engine results, but the impression I get is that CAMRA
branches have a really good presence online, and the content is often far
more sophisticated than the material organised by HQ.
> It is your decision to leave the campaign, but I suspect your 'protest' will
> not be noticed by that cause of action. Better to be in it if you want to
> have influence and gain support then just sounding negative by moaning on a
> news group
You must have a really low opinion of CAMRA if you think the
organisation is so fragile that it can't take any public criticism from
the membership.
> In fact if it is so simple why not stayin CAMRA, offer your services and
> proof how easy it is?
That's a good question, however, as I've said, CAMRA does not offer me,
as a member, any real benefits and, in any case, there is absolutely no
need to be a part of CAMRA to drink real ale or support the industry.
bat...@bat.mobile.invalid
> In article <4277b352$0$38043$bed6...@news.gradwell.net>,
> bat...@bat.mobile.invalid writes
>>JohnB <nos...@here.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> Good riddance!
>>>
>>> Is that really necessary?
>>> You should make clear that you only speaking as an individual and not as
>>> a CAMRA member.
>>
>>Don't you mean "CAMRA official"...
>>
>>Was that boorish noise coming from the Press Officer for CAMRA West Berkshire ?
>>
> No.
Oh, I do then APOLOGISE. I was under the impression you were Roy Bailey
the Press Officer for CAMRA West Berkshire, contributor to many CAMRA
publications, webmaster for your local CAMRA website, member of the British
Guild of Beer writers, cider entrepreneur etc etc.
Unless of course there are a series of cloned Roy Baileys linked to CAMRA.
Rob Shanks
<bat...@bat.mobile.invalid> wrote >
Are we part of the same CAMRA, the Campaign for Real Ale which signed up
> the 75,000th member during March this year ? That's a fair sized
> campaign group.
Yes but that still does not automatically equate that there is a real demand
or support for the costs of putting one of our full time staff on it. It is
only your opinion and you have not put forward any statistics to proof. I
can't proof otherwise of course but I would prefer to comsider facts before
saying one way or another
>
>> Also don't forget there are CAMRA members out there with no access to the
>> net who might regard it a waste of resources to supply such a service
>> when
>> there is no proven demand.
>
> Yes, I totally agree with you that resources should not be wasted, hence
> I believe CAMRA members should be offered the *option* of opting-out of
> mail shots for publications like What's Brewing which exist primarily to
> serve the interests of advertisers and producers.
See above - you still have not proved that this is as cost effective as you
claim as again you are only making an assumption with no hard facts to back
it up.
>
> Printing newspapers costs a good few shillings more than creating online
> content and allow members to *choose* the content they want to read.
>
> Regarding the demand for online services for CAMRA members, I may be
> misinterpreting search engine results, but the impression I get is that
> CAMRA
> branches have a really good presence online, and the content is often far
> more sophisticated than the material organised by HQ.
>
>> It is your decision to leave the campaign, but I suspect your 'protest'
>> will
>> not be noticed by that cause of action. Better to be in it if you want to
>> have influence and gain support then just sounding negative by moaning on
>> a
>> news group
>
> You must have a really low opinion of CAMRA if you think the
> organisation is so fragile that it can't take any public criticism from
> the membership.
Again your opinion - in this case well wide of the mark. I know the camapign
is far from perfect but I have a quite high opinion of it overall. I have no
problem with deserved criticism but you alone are not 'public'. I was just
pointing out that your idea of protesting needs a bit more support to
acheive its goal ie more members taking the same action. So if you are
correct I expect to see the campaign to fall back to under 30,000 members as
it was when I joined.
>
>> In fact if it is so simple why not stayin CAMRA, offer your services and
>> proof how easy it is?
>
> That's a good question, however, as I've said, CAMRA does not offer me,
> as a member, any real benefits and, in any case, there is absolutely no
> need to be a part of CAMRA to drink real ale or support the industry.
>
Correct and that is your right to choose to be not a member. I find that the
other benefits such as reduced admission to beer festivals, savings on
products and GBG, the social side as well as the opportunity to have my say
and try and influence the direction of the campaign are worth the
subscription.
Everyone is different. You started this asking how to cancel your
membership, some members have give you that information, we are now all
aware of your low opinion of CAMRA, you do not have to justify that, so lets
just agree to disagree and leave it at that eh?
Rob
Roy Bailey
bat...@bat.mobile.invalid writes
>
[snipped]
>>>
>>>Was that boorish noise coming from the Press Officer for CAMRA West Berkshire
>?
>>>
>> No.
>
>Oh, I do then APOLOGISE. I was under the impression you were Roy Bailey
>the Press Officer for CAMRA West Berkshire, contributor to many CAMRA
>publications, webmaster for your local CAMRA website, member of the British
>Guild of Beer writers, cider entrepreneur etc etc.
>
BrianW
Surely it's worth it just to read Obadiah Poundage and Kegbuster ;-)
Brian
PeterE
news:ht8ie.8062$Pi3....@newsfe4-win.ntli.net
>> to
>> stop What's Brewing arriving every month.
>
> Surely it's worth it just to read Obadiah Poundage and Kegbuster ;-)
Mind you, it is full of "real ale on the up" and "brewery x records 20%
sales increase" when on the ground we see lots of pubs closing, and lots of
others going over to keg :-(
JohnB
> > Well you might look at it that way but I think that the OP mainly wanted
> > to
> > stop What's Brewing arriving every month.
>
> Surely it's worth it just to read Obadiah Poundage and Kegbuster ;-)
I'm afraid I now put it to one side and just skim through it if bored.
It looks too dated and the content is not particularly inspiring any more.
John B
Brett...
I wonder if that is more to do with you than the paper :-)
--
Brett
PeterE
news:428a1c48$0$26078$ed26...@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net
> JohnB wrote:
>> BrianW wrote:
>>
>>>> Well you might look at it that way but I think that the OP mainly
>>>> wanted to
>>>> stop What's Brewing arriving every month.
>>>
>>> Surely it's worth it just to read Obadiah Poundage and Kegbuster ;-)
>>
>> I'm afraid I now put it to one side and just skim through it if bored.
>> It looks too dated and the content is not particularly inspiring any
>> more.
>
Shurely you're not implying that John is dated and uninspiring? :P
JohnB
Quite possibly.
It just hasn't moved forward and - IMO - has the image of something
stuck in the past.
It can hardly be described as being an action packed punchy rivetting read.
John B
JohnB
>
> "Brett" <blan...@saltwells.dudley.gov.uk> wrote in message
> news:428a1c48$0$26078$ed26...@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net
> > JohnB wrote:
> >> I'm afraid I now put it to one side and just skim through it if bored.
> >> It looks too dated and the content is not particularly inspiring any
> >> more.
> >
> > I wonder if that is more to do with you than the paper :-)
>
> Shurely you're not implying that John is dated and uninspiring? :P
LOL
John B
valeofbelvoirdrinker
>Quite possibly.
>It just hasn't moved forward and - IMO - has the image of something
>stuck in the past.
>It can hardly be described as being an action packed punchy rivetting read.
>
>John B
things being rehashed because there is a limit to the scope of any
subject.
That doesn't mean that there isn't any new and interesting material ,
but a lot of items will always be going over old ground.
JohnB
>
> >Quite possibly.
> >It just hasn't moved forward and - IMO - has the image of something
> >stuck in the past.
> >It can hardly be described as being an action packed punchy rivetting read.
> >
> things being rehashed because there is a limit to the scope of any
> subject.
> That doesn't mean that there isn't any new and interesting material ,
> but a lot of items will always be going over old ground.
To that extent you are right, but in those cases the skills are in
making it look and read as new and exciting.
To be fair, I don't think WB does re-hash that much so the issue is more
how new material is presented.
Successful publications are those that encourage new readers to pick
them up with anticipation or to hover over the letter box each month.
WB does not 'buzz' - and I'm interested in the subject - so I do
question its attraction to others who are not so passionate about
real ale.
However, as WB is not a subscription magazine/paper but a membership
'benefit' perhaps the case for change is not so pressing as in other
areas ;-)
John B
Brett...
Given that there is only so much write about beer and pubs, I think this is
just a reflection that your tastes have changed and you need to move on.
Try Country Life, Kerrang! or some other publication that is going to be
new and fresh to you.
--
Brett
JohnB
>
> JohnB wrote:
> > "Brett..." wrote:
> >>
> >> JohnB wrote:
> >>> I'm afraid I now put it to one side and just skim through it if
> >>> bored. It looks too dated and the content is not particularly
> >>> inspiring any more.
> >> I wonder if that is more to do with you than the paper :-)
> > Quite possibly.
> > It just hasn't moved forward and - IMO - has the image of something
> > stuck in the past.
> > It can hardly be described as being an action packed punchy
> > rivetting read.
> Given that there is only so much write about beer and pubs,
Eh?
Beer and pubs are a wonderfully diverse and exciting subject. Almost
limitless in potential.
Being at the heart of many communities and such a central point to so
many activities, as well as having such a magnificent tradition, I am
surprised you say that.
Tastes, atmospheres, people, life, communication, history, .....
Now what was it Belloc said?
> I think this is
> just a reflection that your tastes have changed and you need to move on.
To think that is arrogant Brett :-(
I never put you down as someone who believed in standing still.
> Try Country Life, Kerrang! or some other publication that is going to be
> new and fresh to you.
Why, when I am passionate about pubs and real ale.
John B
Brett...
You are right, sorry. I should have replaced "I think" with "Perhaps".
>
>> Try Country Life, Kerrang! or some other publication that is going
>> to be new and fresh to you.
>
> Why, when I am passionate about pubs and real ale.
>
> John B
Well it was just an alternative explanation of why WB has become dated and
uninspiring to you. Something I disagree with by the way. I've also never
heard anyone express a similar view to yours by one of our branch either.
Doesn't prove anything either way of course. Perhaps you could write a few
articles in a new and vibrant style for WB?
Brett
--
Brett
PeterE
>> Try Country Life, Kerrang! or some other publication that is going to be
>> new and fresh to you.
>
> Why, when I am passionate about pubs and real ale.
Out of interest, what sort of things would you like to see in WB, then?
To my mind, it is already often too "popular" in style and lacking in
serious analysis. And I would put you down as a Guardian rather than a
Mirror reader.
MadCow
Brett... <blan...@saltwells.dudley.gov.uk> writes
> I've also never
>heard anyone express a similar view to yours by one of our branch either.
I've heard the same complaints about the magazine from members of every
voluntary org I belong to. And the same points made about the
complaints.
One thing you can be sure of: every so often they'll change the format,
and when they do, they'll get a barrage of complaints about the new
format.
--
Sue ];(:)
James Barnes
--
For full context, visit https://www.drinksforum.com/beer-uk/how-to-cancel-camra-subscription-6135-.htm
Andy Leighton
> Not going to use pubs in future as I am uneasy using a smartphone app to order drinks
to order drinks (although you cannot currently go to the bar and order
yourself).
--
Andy Leighton => an...@azaal.plus.com
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