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Sacha
Aug 31, 2013, 6:36:26 PM8/31/13
to
Not so long ago I told Ray that I'd read of a wholesale nursery going
belly up. Today, he learned a bit more about it and said it was
because it had a �3 million order from a supermarket chain which
suddenly decided to halve that order. Then it said that if they potted
the remaining order on, they might buy them. They didn't.
Personally, I don't understand why anyone puts their entire future and
livelihood into the hands of one customer. But neither do I understand
the morals of a customer who will do that to a supplier. The more I
hear of this sort of thing, the less inclined I am to use supermarkets
and am minded to go back to the old days of shopping at small
individual shops for every need, wherever possible. It's less
convenient, it takes longer and it may well be a bit more expensive but
if supermarkets can do this to their suppliers, it's a short step from
that to "you can only buy what we offer you, there is nothing else" and
all our high street shops are gone and so are our choices.
--
Sacha
South Devon
belly up. Today, he learned a bit more about it and said it was
because it had a �3 million order from a supermarket chain which
suddenly decided to halve that order. Then it said that if they potted
the remaining order on, they might buy them. They didn't.
Personally, I don't understand why anyone puts their entire future and
livelihood into the hands of one customer. But neither do I understand
the morals of a customer who will do that to a supplier. The more I
hear of this sort of thing, the less inclined I am to use supermarkets
and am minded to go back to the old days of shopping at small
individual shops for every need, wherever possible. It's less
convenient, it takes longer and it may well be a bit more expensive but
if supermarkets can do this to their suppliers, it's a short step from
that to "you can only buy what we offer you, there is nothing else" and
all our high street shops are gone and so are our choices.
--
Sacha
South Devon
graham
Aug 31, 2013, 6:55:47 PM8/31/13
to
"Sacha" <not...@landscovedevon.com> wrote in message
news:b8f9fa...@mid.individual.net...
My B-i-l employs about 50 people and he was offered the exclusive contract
to supply a large company's SE England business. He turned it down because
he knew if they were late in paying, he'd go bellyup having relied on one
mega-contract. The company that took the contract went OOB and 20 years
later my b-i-l is still going strong. Incidentally, they made the same offer
last year and he turned it down.
Graham
Sacha
Aug 31, 2013, 7:17:25 PM8/31/13
to
remains that the action of the supermarket is immoral. We've heard of
this before in the plant world where a supermarket says it wants to buy
x plants at y price and then, well into the growing seaon, it changes
its mind and offers the grower z price instead. My personal feeling is
that a LOT more should be done to publilcise such behaviour so that
customers know what they're supporting. Whether they care or not is up
to their own conscience after that but at lest the information is
before them.
--
Sacha
South Devon
Brian Reay
Aug 31, 2013, 9:30:42 PM8/31/13
to
France has supermarkets, very good ones. Fresh food prices under cut UK
ones by a bit, surprising since in France they have TVA (VAT) on food.
Yet you still find the small food retailers doing very well. Along with
the rest of the 'High St'.
The French have large out of town shopping centres, some huge ones.
They aren't 'killing the High St'.
So, what is different?
Well, the French High Streets, and thus their shops, are accessible.
They have good, cheap, public transport. and no issues with cars. There
is no 'war on the motorist'. Plenty of parking, often free, if not it is
cheap.
Perhaps it isn't the supermarkets who are killing the small shops, but
the supermarkets are an easy target. Not a popular theory but it does
explain the French conundrum.
By the way, I like to shop in small shops.
Sacha
Sep 1, 2013, 2:34:50 AM9/1/13
to
On 2013-09-01 02:30:42 +0100, Brian Reay said:
> On 31/08/2013 23:36, Sacha wrote:
>> Not so long ago I told Ray that I'd read of a wholesale nursery going
>> belly up. Today, he learned a bit more about it and said it was because
>> it had a �3 million order from a supermarket chain which suddenly
>> decided to halve that order. Then it said that if they potted the
>> remaining order on, they might buy them. They didn't. Personally, I
>> don't understand why anyone puts their entire future and livelihood into
>> the hands of one customer. But neither do I understand the morals of a
>> customer who will do that to a supplier. The more I hear of this sort
>> of thing, the less inclined I am to use supermarkets and am minded to go
>> back to the old days of shopping at small individual shops for every
>> need, wherever possible. It's less convenient, it takes longer and it
>> may well be a bit more expensive but if supermarkets can do this to
>> their suppliers, it's a short step from that to "you can only buy what
>> we offer you, there is nothing else" and all our high street shops are
>> gone and so are our choices.
>
>
> Is it really the fault of the 'supermarkets' or is there another factor?
The other factor is the chap signing up to something which he knew gave
> On 31/08/2013 23:36, Sacha wrote:
>> Not so long ago I told Ray that I'd read of a wholesale nursery going
>> belly up. Today, he learned a bit more about it and said it was because
>> it had a �3 million order from a supermarket chain which suddenly
>> decided to halve that order. Then it said that if they potted the
>> remaining order on, they might buy them. They didn't. Personally, I
>> don't understand why anyone puts their entire future and livelihood into
>> the hands of one customer. But neither do I understand the morals of a
>> customer who will do that to a supplier. The more I hear of this sort
>> of thing, the less inclined I am to use supermarkets and am minded to go
>> back to the old days of shopping at small individual shops for every
>> need, wherever possible. It's less convenient, it takes longer and it
>> may well be a bit more expensive but if supermarkets can do this to
>> their suppliers, it's a short step from that to "you can only buy what
>> we offer you, there is nothing else" and all our high street shops are
>> gone and so are our choices.
>
>
> Is it really the fault of the 'supermarkets' or is there another factor?
the supermarket a get-out clause! It was unwise to leave himself open
to that danger.
>
> France has supermarkets, very good ones. Fresh food prices under cut UK
> ones by a bit, surprising since in France they have TVA (VAT) on food.
> Yet you still find the small food retailers doing very well. Along with
> the rest of the 'High St'.
>
>
> The French have large out of town shopping centres, some huge ones.
>
> They aren't 'killing the High St'.
>
>
> So, what is different?
>
> Well, the French High Streets, and thus their shops, are accessible.
> They have good, cheap, public transport. and no issues with cars. There
> is no 'war on the motorist'. Plenty of parking, often free, if not it
> is cheap.
Yes, I agree there. Many towns are making it impossible for motorists
> France has supermarkets, very good ones. Fresh food prices under cut UK
> ones by a bit, surprising since in France they have TVA (VAT) on food.
> Yet you still find the small food retailers doing very well. Along with
> the rest of the 'High St'.
>
>
> The French have large out of town shopping centres, some huge ones.
>
> They aren't 'killing the High St'.
>
>
> So, what is different?
>
> Well, the French High Streets, and thus their shops, are accessible.
> They have good, cheap, public transport. and no issues with cars. There
> is no 'war on the motorist'. Plenty of parking, often free, if not it
> is cheap.
to park, pick up their shopping and drive away. So of course, instead
they drive to somewhere with plenty of free parking, the supermarket.
If the people who did the shopping also ruled over the parking, I can't
help feeling they'd make it easier for people, not harder!
>
> Perhaps it isn't the supermarkets who are killing the small shops, but
> the supermarkets are an easy target. Not a popular theory but it does
> explain the French conundrum.
>
> By the way, I like to shop in small shops.
I think the French and Italians are just much fussier about the quality
> Perhaps it isn't the supermarkets who are killing the small shops, but
> the supermarkets are an easy target. Not a popular theory but it does
> explain the French conundrum.
>
> By the way, I like to shop in small shops.
of the food they buy - broadly speaking, of course. They like to
sample whenever possible and even in supermarkets, will ask to taste a
sliver of cheese before buying. I think, too, that it would be in our
own interests to shop around more and to keep small, independent shops
going.
--
Sacha
South Devon
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Jane Gillett
Sep 1, 2013, 3:26:21 AM9/1/13
to
In article <kvu5c2$tvv$1...@dont-email.me>,
Don't know about France but I accept your assessment. I should think the
parking situation is a significant factor. French people or culture is
reported as putting far more importance on food at all levels of society,
not merely the richer end, so maybe the public do have an opinion and do
care.
Jane
--
Jane Gillett : j.gi...@higherstert.co.uk : Totnes, Devon.
parking situation is a significant factor. French people or culture is
reported as putting far more importance on food at all levels of society,
not merely the richer end, so maybe the public do have an opinion and do
care.
Jane
--
Jane Gillett : j.gi...@higherstert.co.uk : Totnes, Devon.
Jane Gillett
Sep 1, 2013, 3:22:13 AM9/1/13
to
In article <b8f9fa...@mid.individual.net>,
You reflect my views. However, we are in the minority. The general customer
probably isn't aware of the situation - and would he care? - and the smkt
have only their shareholders' welfare to consider so I can't see the
situation changing.
On the issue of "one sole customer", IAGTU that this is a fairly standard
part of a smkt contract ie you will sell only to us and not to anyone else.
ISTR the case of a supplier who refused to sell to a smkt who wanted his
product. He sold it to a local indeoendant and was surprised to see it sold
at a lower price by the local smkt. Apparently they had bought it from the
independent and cut the price to damage his sales - presumably so he
wouldn't stock it in future. It was media reporting.
AFA "You can only buy what we offer you, there have already been reports
here from people who find that their access to independents has vanished or
drastically reduced as the incoming smkt drove the local ones out of
business. But most people will only take notice when it happens.
Jane
probably isn't aware of the situation - and would he care? - and the smkt
have only their shareholders' welfare to consider so I can't see the
situation changing.
On the issue of "one sole customer", IAGTU that this is a fairly standard
part of a smkt contract ie you will sell only to us and not to anyone else.
ISTR the case of a supplier who refused to sell to a smkt who wanted his
product. He sold it to a local indeoendant and was surprised to see it sold
at a lower price by the local smkt. Apparently they had bought it from the
independent and cut the price to damage his sales - presumably so he
wouldn't stock it in future. It was media reporting.
AFA "You can only buy what we offer you, there have already been reports
here from people who find that their access to independents has vanished or
drastically reduced as the incoming smkt drove the local ones out of
business. But most people will only take notice when it happens.
Jane
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Sacha
Sep 1, 2013, 5:28:32 AM9/1/13
to
On 2013-09-01 09:40:46 +0100, Mike.. . . . said:
> Following a post by Sacha
Impossible, I would think. Their resources are too large. In any case,
if he had an open-ended contract that allowed them to pull out, there
is nothing to sue them for. What gets my goat with this is that,
firstly he was either desperate enough or silly enough or greedy enough
to think putting his future into one pair of hands was a clever idea,
secondly that they told him to pot on the rest of the Fuchsias and they
'might' buy them, returning us to No 1 fairly smartly and thirdly that
they thought it moral to do as they did. We all get incensed about the
morality of big businesses not paying huge tax bills but what they're
doing is legal. The same applies, on a much smaller scale, to that
grower, imo, legal but not moral.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
> Following a post by Sacha
>
>> The other factor is the chap signing up to something which he knew gave
>> the supermarket a get-out clause! It was unwise to leave himself open
>> to that danger.
>
> as a business could/would you afford to sue a supermarket?
>> The other factor is the chap signing up to something which he knew gave
>> the supermarket a get-out clause! It was unwise to leave himself open
>> to that danger.
>
Impossible, I would think. Their resources are too large. In any case,
if he had an open-ended contract that allowed them to pull out, there
is nothing to sue them for. What gets my goat with this is that,
firstly he was either desperate enough or silly enough or greedy enough
to think putting his future into one pair of hands was a clever idea,
secondly that they told him to pot on the rest of the Fuchsias and they
'might' buy them, returning us to No 1 fairly smartly and thirdly that
they thought it moral to do as they did. We all get incensed about the
morality of big businesses not paying huge tax bills but what they're
doing is legal. The same applies, on a much smaller scale, to that
grower, imo, legal but not moral.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
Sacha
Sep 1, 2013, 5:31:58 AM9/1/13
to
On 2013-09-01 08:31:53 +0100, Martin said:
> It's nothing new. M&S were famous for doing it to their suppliers.
> The big supermarkets do it to all their contractors, not just those
> who supply them with food and goods. The current trick is to tell
> contracting companies that if they won't want drop the price of their
> services they will use a contractor in Asia to do the work.
We know they do it to farmers and indeed we know farmers who are
pulling the wool over the public's eyes about the freshness of their
produce and the way workers are on zero hours contracts etc. This
particular instance happens to involve the industry my husband and his
son work in, so to us I suppose it seems more relevant, closer to home,
if you like. Thank goodness Ray would never lay himself open to such an
eventuality, however. This is just another example of the power
supermarkets wield and the fact that they can send somebody out of
business in the space of one season. Lost business, lost jobs and who
knows, maybe lost home too.
--
Sacha
South Devon
> The big supermarkets do it to all their contractors, not just those
> who supply them with food and goods. The current trick is to tell
> contracting companies that if they won't want drop the price of their
> services they will use a contractor in Asia to do the work.
We know they do it to farmers and indeed we know farmers who are
pulling the wool over the public's eyes about the freshness of their
produce and the way workers are on zero hours contracts etc. This
particular instance happens to involve the industry my husband and his
son work in, so to us I suppose it seems more relevant, closer to home,
if you like. Thank goodness Ray would never lay himself open to such an
eventuality, however. This is just another example of the power
supermarkets wield and the fact that they can send somebody out of
business in the space of one season. Lost business, lost jobs and who
knows, maybe lost home too.
--
Sacha
South Devon
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Sacha
Sep 1, 2013, 6:55:58 AM9/1/13
to
On 2013-09-01 10:52:24 +0100, Mike.. . . . said:
> Following a post by Sacha
>
> Following a post by Sacha
>
>> and the way workers are on zero hours contracts etc.
>
> did you hear they are to put the armed forces or zero hours contracts?
>
> No war, no pay! (not)
Wouldn't surprise me a bit! But what is happening in the particular
case I have in mind, is that workers turn up, do a couple of hours
work and then are sent home. They have no contract for x hours a week.
--
Sacha
South Devon
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Brian Reay
Sep 1, 2013, 8:06:53 AM9/1/13
to
On 01/09/13 09:39, Mike.. . . . wrote:
> Following a post by Brian Reay
>
> I can walk to very local shops, that aside I can drive to borough
> shopping centres and pay a lot to park or I can go to Bluewater and
> its free and easy to park. The thinking, which comes from trendy
> central London metrosexuals is that you dont need a car and should
> probably cycle to the shops or use the tube. (Except when you decide
> to produce the carbon of a year in a car by Xmas shopping in New
> York). Its a mentality that comes from living in a city centre and
> travelling only to other city centres by air. For some reason they
> find the near sadistic race to the bottom conditions you endure on
> Ryanair acceptable while a small traffic jam induces peals of laughter
> at how can people be so stupid.
>
> For everywhere else except central London (and probably a couple of
> other places) it will just *not* *happen*, so you just kill the
> shopping centres.
>
A typical " I will tell you how to think, live, travel, and shop" attitude.
Has it occurred to you that people have a right to what to drive to the
shops? Some people don't want to cycle. Some people like living in
cities. I doubt you would be too pleased to be told how to live, while
do you feel you have the right to tell others how to live?
BTW, I don't live in a city. I don't work in a city. Never travelled
Ryanair.
> Following a post by Brian Reay
>
>> They have good, cheap, public transport. and no issues with cars. There
>> is no 'war on the motorist'. Plenty of parking, often free, if not it is
>> cheap.
>
> <rant>
>> They have good, cheap, public transport. and no issues with cars. There
>> is no 'war on the motorist'. Plenty of parking, often free, if not it is
>> cheap.
>
>
> I can walk to very local shops, that aside I can drive to borough
> shopping centres and pay a lot to park or I can go to Bluewater and
> its free and easy to park. The thinking, which comes from trendy
> central London metrosexuals is that you dont need a car and should
> probably cycle to the shops or use the tube. (Except when you decide
> to produce the carbon of a year in a car by Xmas shopping in New
> York). Its a mentality that comes from living in a city centre and
> travelling only to other city centres by air. For some reason they
> find the near sadistic race to the bottom conditions you endure on
> Ryanair acceptable while a small traffic jam induces peals of laughter
> at how can people be so stupid.
>
> For everywhere else except central London (and probably a couple of
> other places) it will just *not* *happen*, so you just kill the
> shopping centres.
>
A typical " I will tell you how to think, live, travel, and shop" attitude.
Has it occurred to you that people have a right to what to drive to the
shops? Some people don't want to cycle. Some people like living in
cities. I doubt you would be too pleased to be told how to live, while
do you feel you have the right to tell others how to live?
BTW, I don't live in a city. I don't work in a city. Never travelled
Ryanair.
Stephen Wolstenholme
Sep 1, 2013, 8:12:43 AM9/1/13
to
On Sun, 1 Sep 2013 10:28:32 +0100, Sacha <not...@landscovedevon.com>
wrote:
>On 2013-09-01 09:40:46 +0100, Mike.. . . . said:
>
>> Following a post by Sacha
>>
>>> The other factor is the chap signing up to something which he knew gave
>>> the supermarket a get-out clause! It was unwise to leave himself open
>>> to that danger.
>>
>> as a business could/would you afford to sue a supermarket?
>
>Impossible, I would think. Their resources are too large.
Not as large as crowdfunding.
Steve
--
EasyNN-plus. Neural Networks plus. http://www.easynn.com
SwingNN. Forecast with Neural Networks. http://www.swingnn.com
JustNN. Just Neural Networks. http://www.justnn.com
wrote:
>On 2013-09-01 09:40:46 +0100, Mike.. . . . said:
>
>> Following a post by Sacha
>>
>>> The other factor is the chap signing up to something which he knew gave
>>> the supermarket a get-out clause! It was unwise to leave himself open
>>> to that danger.
>>
>> as a business could/would you afford to sue a supermarket?
>
>Impossible, I would think. Their resources are too large.
Steve
--
EasyNN-plus. Neural Networks plus. http://www.easynn.com
SwingNN. Forecast with Neural Networks. http://www.swingnn.com
JustNN. Just Neural Networks. http://www.justnn.com
Sacha
Sep 1, 2013, 8:16:31 AM9/1/13
to
On 2013-09-01 12:37:04 +0100, Martin said:
> The majority of what was the building industry is like that, including
> provide your own vehicle, drive two hours to where work is to be done
> only to be informed that items needed for the work haven't been
> delivered/ordered.
However long it's been going on, it doesn't make it right. Eventually,
people who are grossly underpaid or who get so little it's not worth
their petrol costs, will fall back on the state and then we all pay,
skills are lost or not learned and everyone loses.
--
Sacha
South Devon
> provide your own vehicle, drive two hours to where work is to be done
> only to be informed that items needed for the work haven't been
> delivered/ordered.
However long it's been going on, it doesn't make it right. Eventually,
people who are grossly underpaid or who get so little it's not worth
their petrol costs, will fall back on the state and then we all pay,
skills are lost or not learned and everyone loses.
--
Sacha
South Devon
Message has been deleted
Brian Reay
Sep 1, 2013, 8:49:55 AM9/1/13
to
On 01/09/13 13:27, Mike.. . . . wrote:
> Following a post by Brian Reay
>
> Following a post by Brian Reay
>
>> Has it occurred to you that people have a right to what to drive to the
>> shops? Some people don't want to cycle. Some people like living in
>> cities. I doubt you would be too pleased to be told how to live, while
>> do you feel you have the right to tell others how to live?
>
> I think you got me all back to front, Brian.
>> shops? Some people don't want to cycle. Some people like living in
>> cities. I doubt you would be too pleased to be told how to live, while
>> do you feel you have the right to tell others how to live?
>
>
Did I. You seemed pretty 'anti' those with a certain "mentality" which,
perhaps some people enjoy. You seemed quite 'anti' the "metrosexuals"
as you called them.
Living in a city doesn't appeal to me but others must like it, lots seem
to do it when they don't have to. I doubt those who decide to buy (or
rent) in the expensive areas of, say, London, couldn't afford to move to
a leafy suburbs, which are far cheaper.
Message has been deleted
Stephen Wolstenholme
Sep 1, 2013, 9:22:55 AM9/1/13
to
On Sun, 1 Sep 2013 13:16:31 +0100, Sacha <not...@landscovedevon.com>
wrote:
>However long it's been going on, it doesn't make it right. Eventually,
>people who are grossly underpaid or who get so little it's not worth
>their petrol costs, will fall back on the state and then we all pay,
>skills are lost or not learned and everyone loses.
It's not usually a case of low pay. Two of my staff stopped using
their cars because I didn't pay their commuting time. Why should I? No
one ever paid mine.
wrote:
>However long it's been going on, it doesn't make it right. Eventually,
>people who are grossly underpaid or who get so little it's not worth
>their petrol costs, will fall back on the state and then we all pay,
>skills are lost or not learned and everyone loses.
their cars because I didn't pay their commuting time. Why should I? No
one ever paid mine.
Brian Reay
Sep 1, 2013, 9:36:17 AM9/1/13
to
On 01/09/13 14:13, Mike.. . . . wrote:
> Following a post by Brian Reay
>
>>>> Has it occurred to you that people have a right to what to drive to the
>>>> shops? Some people don't want to cycle. Some people like living in
>>>> cities. I doubt you would be too pleased to be told how to live, while
>>>> do you feel you have the right to tell others how to live?
>>>
>>> I think you got me all back to front, Brian.
>>>
>> Did I. You seemed pretty 'anti' those with a certain "mentality" which,
>> perhaps some people enjoy. You seemed quite 'anti' the "metrosexuals"
>> as you called them.
>
> I think their approach is only applicable to where they live -
> Following a post by Brian Reay
>
>>>> Has it occurred to you that people have a right to what to drive to the
>>>> shops? Some people don't want to cycle. Some people like living in
>>>> cities. I doubt you would be too pleased to be told how to live, while
>>>> do you feel you have the right to tell others how to live?
>>>
>>> I think you got me all back to front, Brian.
>>>
>> Did I. You seemed pretty 'anti' those with a certain "mentality" which,
>> perhaps some people enjoy. You seemed quite 'anti' the "metrosexuals"
>> as you called them.
>
> metroland
>
>> Living in a city doesn't appeal to me but others must like it, lots seem
>> to do it when they don't have to.
>
> Yes
>> Living in a city doesn't appeal to me but others must like it, lots seem
>> to do it when they don't have to.
>
>
>> I doubt those who decide to buy (or
>> rent) in the expensive areas of, say, London, couldn't afford to move to
>> a leafy suburbs, which are far cheaper.
>
> Agreed. I tell you what, I will requote your points and answer your
>> I doubt those who decide to buy (or
>> rent) in the expensive areas of, say, London, couldn't afford to move to
>> a leafy suburbs, which are far cheaper.
>
> questions for clarity.
>
>> Has it occurred to you that people have a right to what to drive to the
>> shops?
>
> yes, I agree they should. (maybe apart from *central* London)
>> Has it occurred to you that people have a right to what to drive to the
>> shops?
>
>
>> Some people don't want to cycle.
>
> or indeed, cannot
>> Some people don't want to cycle.
>
>
>> Some people like living in
>> cities.
>
> agreed
>> Some people like living in
>> cities.
>
>
>> I doubt you would be too pleased to be told how to live, while
>>> do you feel you have the right to tell others how to live?
>
> I was quoting what I believe to be the planning attitudes relating to
>> I doubt you would be too pleased to be told how to live, while
>>> do you feel you have the right to tell others how to live?
>
> traveling to shops, not my own views.
>
Well, perhaps planners just don't think.
They say one thing in our area and the outcome is totally different. The
most 'user unfriendly' (ie exposed) bus station you can imagine
replacing a weather proof one (which now stands idle and I can't see
being 'reused'). The bus service is expensive, limited in the times,....
The town centres are dirty, more burger vans and 'Poundland' type shops
than worthwhile shops. They seem to be dragging the better area
(Rochester) down to the worst areas in the name of 'equality'.
Our local authority seems to spend more time worrying about stopping
things which would bring prosperity to the area (the airport in the
Estuary) and hair brained schemes to win "City Status" and erect
"Holywood Style" signs to welcome people to the area.
Janet
Sep 1, 2013, 10:13:53 AM9/1/13
to
In article <o6f6295eadi4pmi44...@4ax.com>,
eas...@googlemail.com says...
working?
Here it's pretty common for someone coming to a private home to
provide a private service for limited hours, to charge the client for
travel time. They may have to travel to other customers homes before or
after which would limit the number of hours they get paid for.
Someone who is paid for 40 hours a week at one location, doesn't face
that uncertainty.
Janet
eas...@googlemail.com says...
>
> On Sun, 1 Sep 2013 13:16:31 +0100, Sacha <not...@landscovedevon.com>
> wrote:
>
> >However long it's been going on, it doesn't make it right. Eventually,
> >people who are grossly underpaid or who get so little it's not worth
> >their petrol costs, will fall back on the state and then we all pay,
> >skills are lost or not learned and everyone loses.
>
> It's not usually a case of low pay. Two of my staff stopped using
> their cars because I didn't pay their commuting time. Why should I? No
> one ever paid mine.
how does what you pay them, compare with your income when you were
> On Sun, 1 Sep 2013 13:16:31 +0100, Sacha <not...@landscovedevon.com>
> wrote:
>
> >However long it's been going on, it doesn't make it right. Eventually,
> >people who are grossly underpaid or who get so little it's not worth
> >their petrol costs, will fall back on the state and then we all pay,
> >skills are lost or not learned and everyone loses.
>
> It's not usually a case of low pay. Two of my staff stopped using
> their cars because I didn't pay their commuting time. Why should I? No
> one ever paid mine.
working?
Here it's pretty common for someone coming to a private home to
provide a private service for limited hours, to charge the client for
travel time. They may have to travel to other customers homes before or
after which would limit the number of hours they get paid for.
Someone who is paid for 40 hours a week at one location, doesn't face
that uncertainty.
Janet
graham
Sep 1, 2013, 10:32:22 AM9/1/13
to
The current trick is to tell
> contracting companies that if they won't want drop the price of their
> services they will use a contractor in Asia to do the work.
A Canadian bank recently told the people in one of its departments that they
were going to be made redundant - but not until they had trained their Asian
replacements!!
Graham
Stephen Wolstenholme
Sep 1, 2013, 11:19:25 AM9/1/13
to
On Sun, 1 Sep 2013 15:13:53 +0100, Janet <h...@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <o6f6295eadi4pmi44...@4ax.com>,
>eas...@googlemail.com says...
>>
>> On Sun, 1 Sep 2013 13:16:31 +0100, Sacha <not...@landscovedevon.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >However long it's been going on, it doesn't make it right. Eventually,
>> >people who are grossly underpaid or who get so little it's not worth
>> >their petrol costs, will fall back on the state and then we all pay,
>> >skills are lost or not learned and everyone loses.
>>
>> It's not usually a case of low pay. Two of my staff stopped using
>> their cars because I didn't pay their commuting time. Why should I? No
>> one ever paid mine.
>
> how does what you pay them, compare with your income when you were
>working?
>
It depends when. I started at 15 on £3 13s 6p a week and finished on a
>In article <o6f6295eadi4pmi44...@4ax.com>,
>eas...@googlemail.com says...
>>
>> On Sun, 1 Sep 2013 13:16:31 +0100, Sacha <not...@landscovedevon.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >However long it's been going on, it doesn't make it right. Eventually,
>> >people who are grossly underpaid or who get so little it's not worth
>> >their petrol costs, will fall back on the state and then we all pay,
>> >skills are lost or not learned and everyone loses.
>>
>> It's not usually a case of low pay. Two of my staff stopped using
>> their cars because I didn't pay their commuting time. Why should I? No
>> one ever paid mine.
>
> how does what you pay them, compare with your income when you were
>working?
>
bit more:) I was never paid for commuting.
> Here it's pretty common for someone coming to a private home to
>provide a private service for limited hours, to charge the client for
>travel time. They may have to travel to other customers homes before or
>after which would limit the number of hours they get paid for.
to use their cars.
> Someone who is paid for 40 hours a week at one location, doesn't face
>that uncertainty.
>
> Janet
Sacha
Sep 1, 2013, 12:33:13 PM9/1/13
to
On 2013-09-01 14:22:55 +0100, Stephen Wolstenholme said:
> On Sun, 1 Sep 2013 13:16:31 +0100, Sacha <not...@landscovedevon.com>
> wrote:
>
>> However long it's been going on, it doesn't make it right. Eventually,
>> people who are grossly underpaid or who get so little it's not worth
>> their petrol costs, will fall back on the state and then we all pay,
>> skills are lost or not learned and everyone loses.
>
> It's not usually a case of low pay. Two of my staff stopped using
> their cars because I didn't pay their commuting time. Why should I? No
> one ever paid mine.
>
> Steve
Nor mine in the dear days of long-ago in London! But that was a mere
> On Sun, 1 Sep 2013 13:16:31 +0100, Sacha <not...@landscovedevon.com>
> wrote:
>
>> However long it's been going on, it doesn't make it right. Eventually,
>> people who are grossly underpaid or who get so little it's not worth
>> their petrol costs, will fall back on the state and then we all pay,
>> skills are lost or not learned and everyone loses.
>
> It's not usually a case of low pay. Two of my staff stopped using
> their cars because I didn't pay their commuting time. Why should I? No
> one ever paid mine.
>
> Steve
tube ride. Train tickets ffor commuters can now run into thousands and
if every employer paid for every employee.....well! But I did pay
petrol money to someone who had worked for me in one place and wanted
to go on working for me when I moved here. It was an arrangement that
suited both of us and if I hadn't done it, she couldn't have afforded
to work for me.
--
Sacha
South Devon
Message has been deleted
sacha
Sep 1, 2013, 1:10:51 PM9/1/13
to
times have you or I heard visitors to the area remark happily on the
thriving delis, fishmongers, bakers,wine merchants, butchers,
cheesemongers, etc. in Totnes and Ashburton. They're thrilled to find
little shops selling delicious local produce but should be asking
themselves why they've lost their own!
sacha
Sep 1, 2013, 1:11:29 PM9/1/13
to
sacha
Sep 1, 2013, 1:16:30 PM9/1/13
to
On 2013-09-01 10:48:01 +0000, Martin said:
> A close relative had his salary reduced as the result of one of the
> big supermarkets threatening to transfer his company's work to India.
> Unfortunately because of the recession, his company which ten years
> ago had a wide spread of work, is almost completely dependent on
> supermarket contracts. Some of his colleagues lost their jobs.
> Unbelievably in a meeting between the supermarket and his company his
> company was asked if an Indian company could do the work to the same
> standard.
My brother and 3 friends had an ad agency in London. They worked up a
campaign for a huge international electrical goods company, which was
already a lucrative client, did the pitch and sat back to hear if the
company liked it. Next thing they knew, that company had taken all my
brother & co's work back to their home agents in their country of
origin and asked them to reproduce it but cheaper. It was the first
time in the history of advertising that an agency sacked a client but
they felt it imperative that they take a stand, for themselves and all
the others that would have had that done to them, had it been allowed
to go by.
> big supermarkets threatening to transfer his company's work to India.
> Unfortunately because of the recession, his company which ten years
> ago had a wide spread of work, is almost completely dependent on
> supermarket contracts. Some of his colleagues lost their jobs.
> Unbelievably in a meeting between the supermarket and his company his
> company was asked if an Indian company could do the work to the same
> standard.
My brother and 3 friends had an ad agency in London. They worked up a
campaign for a huge international electrical goods company, which was
already a lucrative client, did the pitch and sat back to hear if the
company liked it. Next thing they knew, that company had taken all my
brother & co's work back to their home agents in their country of
origin and asked them to reproduce it but cheaper. It was the first
time in the history of advertising that an agency sacked a client but
they felt it imperative that they take a stand, for themselves and all
the others that would have had that done to them, had it been allowed
to go by.
Message has been deleted
allegoricus
Sep 2, 2013, 3:59:33 AM9/2/13
to
>Personally, I don't understand why anyone puts their entire future and
>livelihood into the hands of one customer. ----------------8><
Difficult to do otherwise in some cases - dairy farmers, for example.
--
Peter
Sacha
Sep 2, 2013, 5:02:40 AM9/2/13
to
of what goes on.
--
Sacha
South Devon
Message has been deleted
Jane Gillett
Sep 2, 2013, 4:03:56 AM9/2/13
to
In article <33r5291rnuk8apge8...@4ax.com>,
purely business mentality (which most smaller business have but is
qualified in their situation by local and human factors - but applies pure
and "unsullied" in major companies whcih have no local or human aspects) to
the size and power of the multinational.
Didn't realise M&S operate that way but should have realised by their size.
Jane
--
Jane Gillett : j.gi...@higherstert.co.uk : Totnes, Devon.
Martin <m...@address.invalid> wrote:
> On Sat, 31 Aug 2013 23:36:26 +0100, Sacha <not...@landscovedevon.com>
> wrote:
> On Sat, 31 Aug 2013 23:36:26 +0100, Sacha <not...@landscovedevon.com>
> wrote:
> >Not so long ago I told Ray that I'd read of a wholesale nursery going
> >belly up. Today, he learned a bit more about it and said it was
> >because it had a £3 million order from a supermarket chain which
> >suddenly decided to halve that order. Then it said that if they potted
> >the remaining order on, they might buy them. They didn't.
> >belly up. Today, he learned a bit more about it and said it was
> >because it had a £3 million order from a supermarket chain which
> >suddenly decided to halve that order. Then it said that if they potted
> >the remaining order on, they might buy them. They didn't.
> >Personally, I don't understand why anyone puts their entire future and
> >livelihood into the hands of one customer. But neither do I understand
> >the morals of a customer who will do that to a supplier. The more I
> >hear of this sort of thing, the less inclined I am to use supermarkets
> >and am minded to go back to the old days of shopping at small
> >individual shops for every need, wherever possible. It's less
> >convenient, it takes longer and it may well be a bit more expensive but
> >if supermarkets can do this to their suppliers, it's a short step from
> >that to "you can only buy what we offer you, there is nothing else" and
> >all our high street shops are gone and so are our choices.
> It's nothing new. M&S were famous for doing it to their suppliers.
> The big supermarkets do it to all their contractors, not just those
> who supply them with food and goods. The current trick is to tell
> contracting companies that if they won't want drop the price of their
> services they will use a contractor in Asia to do the work.
Perfectly legally, I assume. It's what happens when you extrapolate a
> >the morals of a customer who will do that to a supplier. The more I
> >hear of this sort of thing, the less inclined I am to use supermarkets
> >and am minded to go back to the old days of shopping at small
> >individual shops for every need, wherever possible. It's less
> >convenient, it takes longer and it may well be a bit more expensive but
> >if supermarkets can do this to their suppliers, it's a short step from
> >that to "you can only buy what we offer you, there is nothing else" and
> >all our high street shops are gone and so are our choices.
> It's nothing new. M&S were famous for doing it to their suppliers.
> The big supermarkets do it to all their contractors, not just those
> who supply them with food and goods. The current trick is to tell
> contracting companies that if they won't want drop the price of their
> services they will use a contractor in Asia to do the work.
purely business mentality (which most smaller business have but is
qualified in their situation by local and human factors - but applies pure
and "unsullied" in major companies whcih have no local or human aspects) to
the size and power of the multinational.
Didn't realise M&S operate that way but should have realised by their size.
Jane
--
Jane Gillett : j.gi...@higherstert.co.uk : Totnes, Devon.
Jane Gillett
Sep 2, 2013, 4:06:08 AM9/2/13
to
In article <gm8629tno3bncpgd2...@4ax.com>,
> with pay day loans with exploitive interest rates should be outlawed
> right now. Don't hold your breath.
+1
> > I have in mind, is that workers turn up, do a couple of hours
> >work and then are sent home. They have no contract for x hours a week.
> and cannot claim benefit if given no work. Its exploitation and along
> >work and then are sent home. They have no contract for x hours a week.
> with pay day loans with exploitive interest rates should be outlawed
> right now. Don't hold your breath.
+1
Jane Gillett
Sep 2, 2013, 4:12:36 AM9/2/13
to
In article <b8haq1...@mid.individual.net>,
when I was made redundant. One of my family who managed a department was
told to make everyons in his dept redundant before making himself
redundant. He refused and resigned immediately.
Jane
sacha <not...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> On 2013-09-01 14:32:22 +0000, graham said:
> > The current trick is to tell
> >> contracting companies that if they won't want drop the price of their
> >> services they will use a contractor in Asia to do the work.
> >> --
> > A Canadian bank recently told the people in one of its departments that
> > they were going to be made redundant - but not until they had trained
> > their Asian replacements!!
> > Graham
> That is actually wicked and very cruel.
I was told to ensure a good handover of work in progress before leaving
> On 2013-09-01 14:32:22 +0000, graham said:
> > The current trick is to tell
> >> contracting companies that if they won't want drop the price of their
> >> services they will use a contractor in Asia to do the work.
> >> --
> > A Canadian bank recently told the people in one of its departments that
> > they were going to be made redundant - but not until they had trained
> > their Asian replacements!!
> > Graham
> That is actually wicked and very cruel.
when I was made redundant. One of my family who managed a department was
told to make everyons in his dept redundant before making himself
redundant. He refused and resigned immediately.
Jane
Jane Gillett
Sep 2, 2013, 4:28:41 AM9/2/13
to
In article <pi9629lilimhiduja...@4ax.com>,
Paul Corfield <aoo...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 01 Sep 2013 02:30:42 +0100, Brian Reay <no...@m.com> wrote:
> >On 31/08/2013 23:36, Sacha wrote:
> >> Not so long ago I told Ray that I'd read of a wholesale nursery going
> >> belly up. Today, he learned a bit more about it and said it was because
> >> it had a £3 million order from a supermarket chain which suddenly
> >> decided to halve that order. Then it said that if they potted the
> >> remaining order on, they might buy them. They didn't. Personally, I
> >> don't understand why anyone puts their entire future and livelihood into
> >> the hands of one customer. But neither do I understand the morals of a
> >> customer who will do that to a supplier. The more I hear of this sort
> >> of thing, the less inclined I am to use supermarkets and am minded to go
> >> back to the old days of shopping at small individual shops for every
> >> need, wherever possible. It's less convenient, it takes longer and it
> >> may well be a bit more expensive but if supermarkets can do this to
> >> their suppliers, it's a short step from that to "you can only buy what
> >> we offer you, there is nothing else" and all our high street shops are
> >> gone and so are our choices.
> >
> >
> >Is it really the fault of the 'supermarkets' or is there another factor?
> It is consumer's fault - up to a point. Consumers have allowed the
> supermarkets to take over and create local monopolies or else to just
> have supermarkets and no local competition. Politicians have allowed
> these businesses to become ever powerful and planning laws have been
> twisted round to favour the supermarkets with a presumption that their
> arrival in a locality is "good". It is up to the voters to change the
> politicians' minds but do the majority care about this stuff? Probably
> not
Agreed.
> even though
Someting lost?
> Supermarkets care only about their shareholders and will trample on
> everyone in the supply chain to maximise their profits.
Yes.
> They also
> don't give a damn (unless it becomes damaging to reputation and share
> prices) about the fact the food they dish up is laden with salt, fat
> and other unsavoury items. Suppliers make this unhealthy food because
> it is addictive guaranteeing sales and because it's cheaper than
> making healthy food.
Yes. But should they "give a damn"? It's the consumers who want to buy it
and as long as the amount of salt etc is clearly indicated then should we
stop them? maybe there's some responsibility towards those who are less
qualified to understand eg the young but I should think this would be
better done by the education system.
> >France has supermarkets, very good ones. Fresh food prices under cut UK
> >ones by a bit, surprising since in France they have TVA (VAT) on food.
> >Yet you still find the small food retailers doing very well. Along with
> >the rest of the 'High St'.
> >
> >The French have large out of town shopping centres, some huge ones.
> >They aren't 'killing the High St'.
> >So, what is different?
> Regulation - pure and simple. The French have laws that prevent the
> destruction of small shops and local markets.
Interesting. Must follow up.
> This was explained on a
> television programme I saw a few months ago. I dare say there are
> cultural issues as well which means there is healthy demand for fresh
> bread and patisserie daily. This sustains loads of local bakeries and
> shops. Similarly there are strong distinctions in butchery with pork
> being marked out from other meats - this sustains more local shops.
Why do they mark out pork. I have my own reasons ie to avoid buying good
including non-UK pork on welfare grounds as I've described here but that's
my own decision and I wouldn't expect that to be a deciding issue even here
let alone in other countries. Sudden thought - is it a Jewish requirement?
> French farmers are also very politically powerful and are not afraid
> to protect their interests. I suspect many French people support their
> national agriculture industry.
> >Well, the French High Streets, and thus their shops, are accessible.
> services and train services replaced by buses because the rails have
> not been maintained. Sure the larger cities have nice tram systems and
> buses but it is not a universal truth.
> It is the simple fact that regulation preserves local shops and that
> people use them that means they stay in business.
AS above.
> While I am sure the majority of people on here use cars and not public
> transport it should not be forgotten that people who shop by bus spend
> more per trip, on average, in shops than people who visit by car.
> Therefore preserving bus access to towns and villages is important
Yes. And some smkts do provide some free bus services.
Jane
> and
> Eric Pickles' latest pompous announcements are just so much nonsense.
> I'm also of the view that pedestrianised town centres just become
> soulless homogeneous dust bowls with little life in them outside of
> shopping hours. Oh and every town has to have a "shopping centre"
> that's closed off from everywhere else. These suck life out of old
> High Streets and town centres. This creates a dangerous and
> unwelcoming environment early mornings and evenings and no one wants
> to go there. Retaining some through movement by traffic and buses
> makes things a bit safer as there are often people knocking around.
> It's about balance and many UK towns have gone in the wrong direction
> but that's just my opinion.
> >Perhaps it isn't the supermarkets who are killing the small shops, but
> >the supermarkets are an easy target. Not a popular theory but it does
> >explain the French conundrum.
> No it doesn't. Plenty of evidence to show that the UK cannot be
> bothered to put in place the necessary reforms to give independent,
> small scale shops a fighting chance. Ultimately though consumers need
> to vote with their wallets and in tough times they are going to go to
> what they perceive as the cheapest outlets. For most people they'd
> think that is the supermarket but it probably isn't really if you were
> to compare quality and to spend time developing a relationship with a
> supplier. I usually get a good deal from the farmers market traders I
> shop with each week because I'm a regular.
> >By the way, I like to shop in small shops.
> I think a lot of people do but they are seduced by the "convenience"
> of spending 60-90 minutes a week dragging themselves round the hell
> that is a large supermarket. It takes me 15 minutes to get my fish,
> meat, bread and veg from the farmers market on a Sunday morning and
> it's a far nicer experience that a supermarket. Thankfully I'm not
> alone in my view and the market has survived even though East London
> is perhaps not the most affluent of areas.
Paul Corfield <aoo...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 01 Sep 2013 02:30:42 +0100, Brian Reay <no...@m.com> wrote:
> >On 31/08/2013 23:36, Sacha wrote:
> >> Not so long ago I told Ray that I'd read of a wholesale nursery going
> >> belly up. Today, he learned a bit more about it and said it was because
> >> it had a £3 million order from a supermarket chain which suddenly
> >> decided to halve that order. Then it said that if they potted the
> >> remaining order on, they might buy them. They didn't. Personally, I
> >> don't understand why anyone puts their entire future and livelihood into
> >> the hands of one customer. But neither do I understand the morals of a
> >> customer who will do that to a supplier. The more I hear of this sort
> >> of thing, the less inclined I am to use supermarkets and am minded to go
> >> back to the old days of shopping at small individual shops for every
> >> need, wherever possible. It's less convenient, it takes longer and it
> >> may well be a bit more expensive but if supermarkets can do this to
> >> their suppliers, it's a short step from that to "you can only buy what
> >> we offer you, there is nothing else" and all our high street shops are
> >> gone and so are our choices.
> >
> >
> It is consumer's fault - up to a point. Consumers have allowed the
> supermarkets to take over and create local monopolies or else to just
> have supermarkets and no local competition. Politicians have allowed
> these businesses to become ever powerful and planning laws have been
> twisted round to favour the supermarkets with a presumption that their
> arrival in a locality is "good". It is up to the voters to change the
> politicians' minds but do the majority care about this stuff? Probably
> not
Agreed.
> even though
Someting lost?
> Supermarkets care only about their shareholders and will trample on
> everyone in the supply chain to maximise their profits.
Yes.
> They also
> don't give a damn (unless it becomes damaging to reputation and share
> prices) about the fact the food they dish up is laden with salt, fat
> and other unsavoury items. Suppliers make this unhealthy food because
> it is addictive guaranteeing sales and because it's cheaper than
> making healthy food.
Yes. But should they "give a damn"? It's the consumers who want to buy it
and as long as the amount of salt etc is clearly indicated then should we
stop them? maybe there's some responsibility towards those who are less
qualified to understand eg the young but I should think this would be
better done by the education system.
> >France has supermarkets, very good ones. Fresh food prices under cut UK
> >ones by a bit, surprising since in France they have TVA (VAT) on food.
> >Yet you still find the small food retailers doing very well. Along with
> >the rest of the 'High St'.
> >
> >The French have large out of town shopping centres, some huge ones.
> >They aren't 'killing the High St'.
> >So, what is different?
> Regulation - pure and simple. The French have laws that prevent the
> destruction of small shops and local markets.
Interesting. Must follow up.
> This was explained on a
> television programme I saw a few months ago. I dare say there are
> cultural issues as well which means there is healthy demand for fresh
> bread and patisserie daily. This sustains loads of local bakeries and
> shops. Similarly there are strong distinctions in butchery with pork
> being marked out from other meats - this sustains more local shops.
Why do they mark out pork. I have my own reasons ie to avoid buying good
including non-UK pork on welfare grounds as I've described here but that's
my own decision and I wouldn't expect that to be a deciding issue even here
let alone in other countries. Sudden thought - is it a Jewish requirement?
> French farmers are also very politically powerful and are not afraid
> to protect their interests. I suspect many French people support their
> national agriculture industry.
> >Well, the French High Streets, and thus their shops, are accessible.
> >They have good, cheap, public transport. and no issues with cars. There
> >is no 'war on the motorist'. Plenty of parking, often free, if not it is
> >cheap.
> Another fallacy I'm afraid. Many parts of France have diabolical bus
> >is no 'war on the motorist'. Plenty of parking, often free, if not it is
> >cheap.
> services and train services replaced by buses because the rails have
> not been maintained. Sure the larger cities have nice tram systems and
> buses but it is not a universal truth.
> It is the simple fact that regulation preserves local shops and that
> people use them that means they stay in business.
AS above.
> While I am sure the majority of people on here use cars and not public
> transport it should not be forgotten that people who shop by bus spend
> more per trip, on average, in shops than people who visit by car.
> Therefore preserving bus access to towns and villages is important
Yes. And some smkts do provide some free bus services.
Jane
> and
> Eric Pickles' latest pompous announcements are just so much nonsense.
> I'm also of the view that pedestrianised town centres just become
> soulless homogeneous dust bowls with little life in them outside of
> shopping hours. Oh and every town has to have a "shopping centre"
> that's closed off from everywhere else. These suck life out of old
> High Streets and town centres. This creates a dangerous and
> unwelcoming environment early mornings and evenings and no one wants
> to go there. Retaining some through movement by traffic and buses
> makes things a bit safer as there are often people knocking around.
> It's about balance and many UK towns have gone in the wrong direction
> but that's just my opinion.
> >Perhaps it isn't the supermarkets who are killing the small shops, but
> >the supermarkets are an easy target. Not a popular theory but it does
> >explain the French conundrum.
> No it doesn't. Plenty of evidence to show that the UK cannot be
> bothered to put in place the necessary reforms to give independent,
> small scale shops a fighting chance. Ultimately though consumers need
> to vote with their wallets and in tough times they are going to go to
> what they perceive as the cheapest outlets. For most people they'd
> think that is the supermarket but it probably isn't really if you were
> to compare quality and to spend time developing a relationship with a
> supplier. I usually get a good deal from the farmers market traders I
> shop with each week because I'm a regular.
> >By the way, I like to shop in small shops.
> I think a lot of people do but they are seduced by the "convenience"
> of spending 60-90 minutes a week dragging themselves round the hell
> that is a large supermarket. It takes me 15 minutes to get my fish,
> meat, bread and veg from the farmers market on a Sunday morning and
> it's a far nicer experience that a supermarket. Thankfully I'm not
> alone in my view and the market has survived even though East London
> is perhaps not the most affluent of areas.
Jane Gillett
Sep 2, 2013, 4:29:32 AM9/2/13
to
In article <ih3629hsfigbaeh10...@4ax.com>,
Jane
> > and the way workers are on zero hours contracts etc.
> did you hear they are to put the armed forces or zero hours contracts?
> No war, no pay! (not)
Territorials taking the place of regular service personnel?
> No war, no pay! (not)
Jane
allegoricus
Sep 2, 2013, 5:12:11 AM9/2/13
to
On 2 Sep 2013 09:06:39 GMT, Huge <Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>Why should they care? All that matters is the price and quality of the end
>product. If dairy farmers don't like this, go and do something else.
Business people are in the business of rolling over money for profit.
The actual means by which they do this is really mere detail.
Even so, not everyone in business is a business person. Many do what
they do because it's part of their identity.
--
Peter
>product. If dairy farmers don't like this, go and do something else.
Business people are in the business of rolling over money for profit.
The actual means by which they do this is really mere detail.
Even so, not everyone in business is a business person. Many do what
they do because it's part of their identity.
--
Peter
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Judith in France
Sep 2, 2013, 5:47:28 AM9/2/13
to
On Sunday, 1 September 2013 02:30:42 UTC+1, Brian Reay wrote:
> Perhaps it isn't the supermarkets who are killing the small shops, but
> the supermarkets are an easy target. Not a popular theory but it does
> explain the French conundrum.
> Perhaps it isn't the supermarkets who are killing the small shops, but
> the supermarkets are an easy target. Not a popular theory but it does
> explain the French conundrum.
> By the way, I like to shop in small shops.
I shop in Issoire, a large town, the high street has parking on it for a few cents and many car parks, very nearby, are free. I can stroll off with my basket and go to the butchers, bakers, fruit and veg shop, stroll to a cafe and sit outside with a cup of coffee, all very relaxing. For my big shop, staples, loo and kitchen rolls, detergent, household stuff, I go to a hypermarket on the edge of town or Lidl where the queues are smaller, I hate the queues for the tills.
The small independent shops all thrive here, there are no empty shops, I love them. Take a look on Google street view at Issoire, from florists, hairdressers, cheese shops, specialist food shops, small boutiques, children's wear, you name it, all these small shops are thriving, even though they are a little bit more expensive than the hypers.
Ophelia
Sep 2, 2013, 5:58:13 AM9/2/13
to
"Huge" <Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote in message
news:b8j2ov...@mid.individual.net...
> On 2013-09-02, Sacha <not...@landscovedevon.com> wrote:
> Why should they care? All that matters is the price and quality of the end
> product. If dairy farmers don't like this, go and do something else.
Not a nice thought, but that is life and business.
> product. If dairy farmers don't like this, go and do something else.
--
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/
Message has been deleted
Brian Reay
Sep 2, 2013, 6:06:31 AM9/2/13
to
and have a Motorhome). Or daughter studied there for a year.
We've seen almost exactly what you describe. We tend to park on a site
and either use buses, trains or walk. Between sites we 'stock up' on
bulky items in supermarkets.
I don't think the French would tolerate the high fares and parking fees
we do.
Equally, they take pride in their surroundings. Rarely do you see litter
etc. On our last trip we spent a few days in Paris. Shortly after
returning we had a day in London. The contrast made me fell ashamed. I
wonder what the French think when they come to London?
Likewise, the concept if 'late night opening' is widespread in Europe.
However, I've never seen any one (other than some one British) drunk.
Why is it that, after say 10:30pm, town centres tend to be filled with
drunken slobs?
<steps off soap box>
;-)
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Brian Reay
Sep 2, 2013, 7:22:50 AM9/2/13
to
On 02/09/13 11:14, Mike.. . . . wrote:
> Following a post by Brian Reay
> too fast and it does not go away in 5 minutes.
Do you mean when the licensing laws changed? They changed long enough
ago that a new 'generation' of drinkers (if not several generations)
never knew when "last orders" was 10:30pm.
Plus, the 'land lords' blame the supermarkets and 'pre-lashing' (the
term for drinking before going to the pub/night club). People are going
out with the intention of drinking to excess.
>
> You seem to see people getting drunk more in the cold northern places,
> Russia, Iceland, UK?
Is it that much colder in the UK than in France, esp, in the winter?
Don't the have a lot more snow in southern France for sking? Ditto the
Swiss.
>
> do people get drunk in OZ?
>
It isn't the 'getting drunk' it is the behaviour when drunk I have
issues with, especially if it is used as an excuse for totally
unacceptable behaviour. If someone gets drunk and isn't a problem, that
is up to them. They will have the hang over ;-)
> Following a post by Brian Reay
>
>> Likewise, the concept if 'late night opening' is widespread in Europe.
>> However, I've never seen any one (other than some one British) drunk.
>> Why is it that, after say 10:30pm, town centres tend to be filled with
>> drunken slobs?
>
> Some say it was the drink licensing laws that caused people to drink
>> Likewise, the concept if 'late night opening' is widespread in Europe.
>> However, I've never seen any one (other than some one British) drunk.
>> Why is it that, after say 10:30pm, town centres tend to be filled with
>> drunken slobs?
>
> too fast and it does not go away in 5 minutes.
Do you mean when the licensing laws changed? They changed long enough
ago that a new 'generation' of drinkers (if not several generations)
never knew when "last orders" was 10:30pm.
Plus, the 'land lords' blame the supermarkets and 'pre-lashing' (the
term for drinking before going to the pub/night club). People are going
out with the intention of drinking to excess.
>
> You seem to see people getting drunk more in the cold northern places,
> Russia, Iceland, UK?
Is it that much colder in the UK than in France, esp, in the winter?
Don't the have a lot more snow in southern France for sking? Ditto the
Swiss.
>
> do people get drunk in OZ?
>
It isn't the 'getting drunk' it is the behaviour when drunk I have
issues with, especially if it is used as an excuse for totally
unacceptable behaviour. If someone gets drunk and isn't a problem, that
is up to them. They will have the hang over ;-)
Message has been deleted
Ophelia
Sep 2, 2013, 7:48:00 AM9/2/13
to
"Brian Reay" <no...@m.com> wrote in message
news:l01sea$itt$1...@dont-email.me...
> On 02/09/13 11:14, Mike.. . . . wrote:
>> Following a post by Brian Reay
>>
>>> Likewise, the concept if 'late night opening' is widespread in Europe.
>>> However, I've never seen any one (other than some one British) drunk.
>>> Why is it that, after say 10:30pm, town centres tend to be filled with
>>> drunken slobs?
>>
>> Some say it was the drink licensing laws that caused people to drink
>> too fast and it does not go away in 5 minutes.
You mean it isn't still 10.30pm??? Who knew? So what time does the law say
>> Following a post by Brian Reay
>>
>>> Likewise, the concept if 'late night opening' is widespread in Europe.
>>> However, I've never seen any one (other than some one British) drunk.
>>> Why is it that, after say 10:30pm, town centres tend to be filled with
>>> drunken slobs?
>>
>> Some say it was the drink licensing laws that caused people to drink
>> too fast and it does not go away in 5 minutes.
they must close now?
--
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/
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Janet
Sep 2, 2013, 8:43:57 AM9/2/13
to
In article <l01nv8$te8$1...@dont-email.me>, no...@m.com says...
> Likewise, the concept if 'late night opening' is widespread in Europe.
goes with the (small shops) concept of lunch-time closing.
Janet
> Likewise, the concept if 'late night opening' is widespread in Europe.
Janet
Stephen Wolstenholme
Sep 2, 2013, 8:52:04 AM9/2/13
to
On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 11:14:43 +0100, Mike.. . . .
<junkfo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>You seem to see people getting drunk more in the cold northern places,
>Russia, Iceland, UK?
My boss was in Russia a few years ago. His host got everyone up for
<junkfo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>You seem to see people getting drunk more in the cold northern places,
>Russia, Iceland, UK?
breakfast before work. The breakfast was at a street bar and it
included beer. It was so cold that ice formed on the glass. It was
normal to get "happy" before work. Iced beer for breakfast!
Steve
--
EasyNN-plus. Neural Networks plus. http://www.easynn.com
SwingNN. Forecast with Neural Networks. http://www.swingnn.com
JustNN. Just Neural Networks. http://www.justnn.com
Message has been deleted
Janet
Sep 2, 2013, 9:05:38 AM9/2/13
to
In article <b8j2ov...@mid.individual.net>, Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid
says...
http://news.sky.com/story/1076500/baby-milk-exports-sold-for-twice-the-
price
If that doesn't save the UK dairy industry, we can look forward to
similar business opportunism from whoever produces and exports milk to
UK. In years to come our descendants will marvel, that milk in the UK
was once so plentiful and cheap the govt gave it away free.
Janet.
says...
> Why should they care? All that matters is the price and quality of the end
> product. If dairy farmers don't like this, go and do something else.
Like selling it to China at twice the UK price
> product. If dairy farmers don't like this, go and do something else.
http://news.sky.com/story/1076500/baby-milk-exports-sold-for-twice-the-
price
If that doesn't save the UK dairy industry, we can look forward to
similar business opportunism from whoever produces and exports milk to
UK. In years to come our descendants will marvel, that milk in the UK
was once so plentiful and cheap the govt gave it away free.
Janet.
Message has been deleted
Ophelia
Sep 2, 2013, 9:16:05 AM9/2/13
to
"Mike.. . . ." <junkfo...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:tvv829hg7le702g0f...@4ax.com...
> Following a post by Ophelia
>
>>You mean it isn't still 10.30pm??? Who knew? So what time does the law
>>say
>>they must close now?
>
> Scotland dropped such rules many, many years ago. When I was young
>>You mean it isn't still 10.30pm??? Who knew? So what time does the law
>>say
>>they must close now?
>
> some parts of Wales were "dry" on Sunday. (Some parts of Texas were
> still "dry" a couple of years ago and others may still be so for all I
> know!). In England in the 60s it was 11pm and 10.30 on Sundays, the
> tail end of an "emergency measure" introduced in WW1.
>
> In England each premises applies for licence hours to suit it needs,
> the Tory press trumpeted this as "24 hour drinking" that would end
> civilisation as we know it but very few places, if any, are open 24
> hours (and few places would be deemed suitable) but even those who
> bothered to get licences till (say) midnight do not use their
> permitted hours all the time.
Thanks:) How woefully uneducated I am about pub opening hours ... ;)
--
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/
Brian Reay
Sep 2, 2013, 9:49:17 AM9/2/13
to
person- but the old 10:30 rule went years ago.
Message has been deleted
Ophelia
Sep 2, 2013, 10:24:36 AM9/2/13
to
news:tp7929lbl0eepo874...@4ax.com...
Hmm are you sure ...
--
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/
> Following a post by Ophelia
>
>
>> How woefully uneducated I am about pub opening hours ... ;)
>
> like me and brothel hours :-)
>
Hmm are you sure ...
--
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/
Ophelia
Sep 2, 2013, 10:24:15 AM9/2/13
to
news:l0250t$1p0$1...@dont-email.me...
Nor are we which is why I had no idea.
--
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/
--
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/
Stephen Wolstenholme
Sep 2, 2013, 11:30:03 AM9/2/13
to
On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 15:23:10 +0100, Mike.. . . .
<junkfo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Following a post by Ophelia
>
<junkfo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Following a post by Ophelia
>
>> How woefully uneducated I am about pub opening hours ... ;)
>
>
>like me and brothel hours :-)
They are the same at my pub but the beer is good.
Message has been deleted
Ophelia
Sep 2, 2013, 5:39:23 PM9/2/13
to
"Judith in France" <judith...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:a05c88aa-c843-48d8...@googlegroups.com...
> X-No-Archive:Yes
> On Monday, 2 September 2013 14:16:05 UTC+1, Ophelia wrote:
>> Thanks:) How woefully uneducated I am about pub opening hours ... ;)
>> http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/
>> Thanks:) How woefully uneducated I am about pub opening hours ... ;)
>
> Me too O, I don't go into pubs, never have, I blame it on my Ma :-)
Awww poor Ma:) I have just never been interested:) Really I can think of
many places I would rather be than in a pub!
--
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/
allegoricus
Sep 3, 2013, 4:25:36 AM9/3/13
to
On Sun, 1 Sep 2013 18:11:29 +0100, sacha <not...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>On 2013-09-01 14:32:22 +0000, graham said:
>
>> The current trick is to tell
>>> contracting companies that if they won't want drop the price of their
>>> services they will use a contractor in Asia to do the work.
>>> --
>> A Canadian bank recently told the people in one of its departments that
>> they were going to be made redundant - but not until they had trained
>> their Asian replacements!!
>> Graham
>
>That is actually wicked and very cruel.
Was the way things were done at HP.
--
Peter
>On 2013-09-01 14:32:22 +0000, graham said:
>
>> The current trick is to tell
>>> contracting companies that if they won't want drop the price of their
>>> services they will use a contractor in Asia to do the work.
>>> --
>> A Canadian bank recently told the people in one of its departments that
>> they were going to be made redundant - but not until they had trained
>> their Asian replacements!!
>> Graham
>
>That is actually wicked and very cruel.
Was the way things were done at HP.
--
Peter
Jane Gillett
Sep 3, 2013, 2:47:16 AM9/3/13
to
In article <b8j6fc...@mid.individual.net>,
Huge <Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
> Precisely.
HOw about teaching more about both business emphasis and physical trade
practices in school?
Jane
--
Jane Gillett : j.gi...@higherstert.co.uk : Totnes, Devon.
Huge <Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
HOw about teaching more about both business emphasis and physical trade
practices in school?
Jane
--
Jane Gillett : j.gi...@higherstert.co.uk : Totnes, Devon.
Jane Gillett
Sep 3, 2013, 2:59:07 AM9/3/13
to
In article <l01sea$itt$1...@dont-email.me>,
of any other similar drug?
IS it because it's "cool" (or whatever the current term is)?
Is it because it "oils the wheels" of social interaction?
Is it because they like the taste?
Or what?
> >
> > You seem to see people getting drunk more in the cold northern places,
> > Russia, Iceland, UK?
> Is it that much colder in the UK than in France, esp, in the winter?
> Don't the have a lot more snow in southern France for sking? Ditto the
> Swiss.
> >
> > do people get drunk in OZ?
> >
> It isn't the 'getting drunk' it is the behaviour when drunk I have
> issues with, especially if it is used as an excuse for totally
> unacceptable behaviour. If someone gets drunk and isn't a problem, that
> is up to them. They will have the hang over ;-)
Yep. It may be the reason for unacceptable behaviour but it doesn't excuse
it.
Brian Reay <no...@m.com> wrote:
> On 02/09/13 11:14, Mike.. . . . wrote:
> > Following a post by Brian Reay
> >
> >> Likewise, the concept if 'late night opening' is widespread in Europe.
> >> However, I've never seen any one (other than some one British) drunk.
> >> Why is it that, after say 10:30pm, town centres tend to be filled with
> >> drunken slobs?
> >
> > Some say it was the drink licensing laws that caused people to drink
> > too fast and it does not go away in 5 minutes.
> Do you mean when the licensing laws changed? They changed long enough
> ago that a new 'generation' of drinkers (if not several generations)
> never knew when "last orders" was 10:30pm.
> Plus, the 'land lords' blame the supermarkets and 'pre-lashing' (the
> term for drinking before going to the pub/night club). People are going
> out with the intention of drinking to excess.
Because they like the feeling of drunkenness? As in they like the feeling
> On 02/09/13 11:14, Mike.. . . . wrote:
> > Following a post by Brian Reay
> >
> >> Likewise, the concept if 'late night opening' is widespread in Europe.
> >> However, I've never seen any one (other than some one British) drunk.
> >> Why is it that, after say 10:30pm, town centres tend to be filled with
> >> drunken slobs?
> >
> > Some say it was the drink licensing laws that caused people to drink
> > too fast and it does not go away in 5 minutes.
> Do you mean when the licensing laws changed? They changed long enough
> ago that a new 'generation' of drinkers (if not several generations)
> never knew when "last orders" was 10:30pm.
> Plus, the 'land lords' blame the supermarkets and 'pre-lashing' (the
> term for drinking before going to the pub/night club). People are going
> out with the intention of drinking to excess.
of any other similar drug?
IS it because it's "cool" (or whatever the current term is)?
Is it because it "oils the wheels" of social interaction?
Is it because they like the taste?
Or what?
> >
> > You seem to see people getting drunk more in the cold northern places,
> > Russia, Iceland, UK?
> Is it that much colder in the UK than in France, esp, in the winter?
> Don't the have a lot more snow in southern France for sking? Ditto the
> Swiss.
> >
> > do people get drunk in OZ?
> >
> It isn't the 'getting drunk' it is the behaviour when drunk I have
> issues with, especially if it is used as an excuse for totally
> unacceptable behaviour. If someone gets drunk and isn't a problem, that
> is up to them. They will have the hang over ;-)
it.
Jane Gillett
Sep 3, 2013, 2:50:09 AM9/3/13
to
In article <b8j3g6...@mid.individual.net>,
Huge <Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
> On 2013-09-02, Jane Gillett <j.gi...@higherstert.co.uk> wrote:
> > In article <b8haq1...@mid.individual.net>,
> > when I was made redundant. One of my family who managed a department was
> > told to make everyons in his dept redundant before making himself
> > redundant. He refused and resigned immediately.
> Doubtless cutting off his nose to spite his face. His department were still
> made redundant and he lost his redundancy money. So far as his employers
> were concerned this was a good thing, since they saved his payment.
He didn't have to wait until all the dept employees had taken the possible
jobs before he had a chance of re-employment.
Huge <Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
> On 2013-09-02, Jane Gillett <j.gi...@higherstert.co.uk> wrote:
> > In article <b8haq1...@mid.individual.net>,
> > sacha <not...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> >> On 2013-09-01 14:32:22 +0000, graham said:
> >
> >> > The current trick is to tell
> >> >> contracting companies that if they won't want drop the price of their
> >> >> services they will use a contractor in Asia to do the work.
> >> >> --
> >> > A Canadian bank recently told the people in one of its departments that
> >> > they were going to be made redundant - but not until they had trained
> >> > their Asian replacements!!
> >> > Graham
> >
> >> That is actually wicked and very cruel.
> >
> > I was told to ensure a good handover of work in progress before leaving
> >> On 2013-09-01 14:32:22 +0000, graham said:
> >
> >> > The current trick is to tell
> >> >> contracting companies that if they won't want drop the price of their
> >> >> services they will use a contractor in Asia to do the work.
> >> >> --
> >> > A Canadian bank recently told the people in one of its departments that
> >> > they were going to be made redundant - but not until they had trained
> >> > their Asian replacements!!
> >> > Graham
> >
> >> That is actually wicked and very cruel.
> >
> > when I was made redundant. One of my family who managed a department was
> > told to make everyons in his dept redundant before making himself
> > redundant. He refused and resigned immediately.
> Doubtless cutting off his nose to spite his face. His department were still
> made redundant and he lost his redundancy money. So far as his employers
> were concerned this was a good thing, since they saved his payment.
He didn't have to wait until all the dept employees had taken the possible
jobs before he had a chance of re-employment.
Jane Gillett
Sep 3, 2013, 3:02:51 AM9/3/13
to
In article <llt82956ano4hkthh...@4ax.com>,
> >Plus, the 'land lords' blame the supermarkets and 'pre-lashing' (the
> >term for drinking before going to the pub/night club). People are going
> >out with the intention of drinking to excess.
> or do they pre load because pubs and especially clubs charge a lot?
Preloading gives you more for less outlay; same either way.
> >> You seem to see people getting drunk more in the cold northern places,
> >> Russia, Iceland, UK?
> >
> >Is it that much colder in the UK than in France, esp, in the winter?
> >Don't the have a lot more snow in southern France for sking? Ditto the
> >Swiss.
> France is usually warm enough to encourage the southern sitting around
> outside approach.
Why does that encourage less drunkeness? Or is it a matter of culture - in
S. europe, drink in moderation is a normal part of everyday life while in
UK drink to excess has been more usual?
Could it be religion linked? R.Catholic Europe has generally accepted
alcohol as a part of normal life. Many non-conformist parts of UK have strong
TT movements and there is a link between banning and excess. Doesn't
explain other N.European drinking habits of course.
Jane
> >> do people get drunk in OZ?
> >>
> >
> >It isn't the 'getting drunk' it is the behaviour when drunk I have
> >issues with, especially if it is used as an excuse for totally
> >unacceptable behaviour. If someone gets drunk and isn't a problem, that
> >is up to them. They will have the hang over ;-)
> the unacceptable behaviour is what I object to too. One thing that has
> changed in our culture is that being drunk is no longer mitigation to
> the law, its now more of an aggravation.
> >> Some say it was the drink licensing laws that caused people to drink
> >> too fast and it does not go away in 5 minutes.
> >
> >Do you mean when the licensing laws changed? They changed long enough
> >ago that a new 'generation' of drinkers (if not several generations)
> >never knew when "last orders" was 10:30pm.
> I think it may take longer than that for a culture to change
> >> too fast and it does not go away in 5 minutes.
> >
> >Do you mean when the licensing laws changed? They changed long enough
> >ago that a new 'generation' of drinkers (if not several generations)
> >never knew when "last orders" was 10:30pm.
> >Plus, the 'land lords' blame the supermarkets and 'pre-lashing' (the
> >term for drinking before going to the pub/night club). People are going
> >out with the intention of drinking to excess.
Preloading gives you more for less outlay; same either way.
> >> You seem to see people getting drunk more in the cold northern places,
> >> Russia, Iceland, UK?
> >
> >Is it that much colder in the UK than in France, esp, in the winter?
> >Don't the have a lot more snow in southern France for sking? Ditto the
> >Swiss.
> outside approach.
Why does that encourage less drunkeness? Or is it a matter of culture - in
S. europe, drink in moderation is a normal part of everyday life while in
UK drink to excess has been more usual?
Could it be religion linked? R.Catholic Europe has generally accepted
alcohol as a part of normal life. Many non-conformist parts of UK have strong
TT movements and there is a link between banning and excess. Doesn't
explain other N.European drinking habits of course.
Jane
> >> do people get drunk in OZ?
> >>
> >
> >It isn't the 'getting drunk' it is the behaviour when drunk I have
> >issues with, especially if it is used as an excuse for totally
> >unacceptable behaviour. If someone gets drunk and isn't a problem, that
> >is up to them. They will have the hang over ;-)
> changed in our culture is that being drunk is no longer mitigation to
> the law, its now more of an aggravation.
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Sacha
Sep 3, 2013, 5:48:08 AM9/3/13
to
On 2013-09-02 11:06:31 +0100, Brian Reay said:
> On 02/09/13 10:47, Judith in France wrote:
>> On Sunday, 1 September 2013 02:30:42 UTC+1, Brian Reay wrote:
>>> Perhaps it isn't the supermarkets who are killing the small shops, but
>>> the supermarkets are an easy target. Not a popular theory but it does
>>> explain the French conundrum.
>>> By the way, I like to shop in small shops.
>> I shop in Issoire, a large town, the high street has parking on it for
>> a few cents and many car parks, very nearby, are free. I can stroll
>> off with my basket and go to the butchers, bakers, fruit and veg shop,
>> stroll to a cafe and sit outside with a cup of coffee, all very
>> relaxing. For my big shop, staples, loo and kitchen rolls, detergent,
>> household stuff, I go to a hypermarket on the edge of town or Lidl
>> where the queues are smaller, I hate the queues for the tills.
>> The small independent shops all thrive here, there are no empty shops,
>> I love them. Take a look on Google street view at Issoire, from
>> florists, hairdressers, cheese shops, specialist food shops, small
>> boutiques, children's wear, you name it, all these small shops are
>> thriving, even though they are a little bit more expensive than the
>> hypers.
>>
>
>
> We've started to visit France quite often (we are close to the Tunnel
> and have a Motorhome). Or daughter studied there for a year.
>
> We've seen almost exactly what you describe. We tend to park on a site
> and either use buses, trains or walk. Between sites we 'stock up' on
> bulky items in supermarkets.
>
> I don't think the French would tolerate the high fares and parking fees we do.
>
> Equally, they take pride in their surroundings. Rarely do you see
> litter etc. On our last trip we spent a few days in Paris. Shortly
> after returning we had a day in London. The contrast made me fell
> ashamed. I wonder what the French think when they come to London?
>
> ;-)
I was commenting on just this sort of thing to a friend who knows
France well - the civic pride, little shops, each village seeming to
have a little museum of some sort relating its history, clean streets
etc. The answer given to me was that this is because each tiny town
has its mayor and he leads all the inhabitants in taking pride in where
they live and cherishing that way of life. I think that's probably a
good answer. Here, too much of our bureaucracy is faceless to most of
us. We don't know the mayor and I couldn't even tell you the name of
the closest one to us. In France, it may well be the man who owns the
little cheese shop.
--
Sacha
South Devon
> On 02/09/13 10:47, Judith in France wrote:
>> On Sunday, 1 September 2013 02:30:42 UTC+1, Brian Reay wrote:
>>> Perhaps it isn't the supermarkets who are killing the small shops, but
>>> the supermarkets are an easy target. Not a popular theory but it does
>>> explain the French conundrum.
>>> By the way, I like to shop in small shops.
>> I shop in Issoire, a large town, the high street has parking on it for
>> a few cents and many car parks, very nearby, are free. I can stroll
>> off with my basket and go to the butchers, bakers, fruit and veg shop,
>> stroll to a cafe and sit outside with a cup of coffee, all very
>> relaxing. For my big shop, staples, loo and kitchen rolls, detergent,
>> household stuff, I go to a hypermarket on the edge of town or Lidl
>> where the queues are smaller, I hate the queues for the tills.
>> The small independent shops all thrive here, there are no empty shops,
>> I love them. Take a look on Google street view at Issoire, from
>> florists, hairdressers, cheese shops, specialist food shops, small
>> boutiques, children's wear, you name it, all these small shops are
>> thriving, even though they are a little bit more expensive than the
>> hypers.
>>
>
>
> We've started to visit France quite often (we are close to the Tunnel
> and have a Motorhome). Or daughter studied there for a year.
>
> We've seen almost exactly what you describe. We tend to park on a site
> and either use buses, trains or walk. Between sites we 'stock up' on
> bulky items in supermarkets.
>
> I don't think the French would tolerate the high fares and parking fees we do.
>
> Equally, they take pride in their surroundings. Rarely do you see
> litter etc. On our last trip we spent a few days in Paris. Shortly
> after returning we had a day in London. The contrast made me fell
> ashamed. I wonder what the French think when they come to London?
>
> Likewise, the concept if 'late night opening' is widespread in Europe.
> However, I've never seen any one (other than some one British) drunk.
> Why is it that, after say 10:30pm, town centres tend to be filled with
> drunken slobs?
>
> <steps off soap box>
> Likewise, the concept if 'late night opening' is widespread in Europe.
> However, I've never seen any one (other than some one British) drunk.
> Why is it that, after say 10:30pm, town centres tend to be filled with
> drunken slobs?
>
>
> ;-)
I was commenting on just this sort of thing to a friend who knows
France well - the civic pride, little shops, each village seeming to
have a little museum of some sort relating its history, clean streets
etc. The answer given to me was that this is because each tiny town
has its mayor and he leads all the inhabitants in taking pride in where
they live and cherishing that way of life. I think that's probably a
good answer. Here, too much of our bureaucracy is faceless to most of
us. We don't know the mayor and I couldn't even tell you the name of
the closest one to us. In France, it may well be the man who owns the
little cheese shop.
--
Sacha
South Devon
Ophelia
Sep 3, 2013, 6:01:00 AM9/3/13
to
news:9ef60a70-db04-4cc9...@googlegroups.com...
> X-No-Archive:Yes
> ago. I blame the airline, they served me Champagne, we toasted my late
> Father. I was flying with my daughters, a couple of months after my
> Father died. My Father had asked me to give them a legacy (legacy meaning
> a present from him). I could think of no better way than to enjoy a
> holiday in Barbados, something he would have done had he lived. We felt
> he was with us the entire time. We raised many a glass to Daddy, hence my
> late found liking for chilled white wine.
Nice:)
It's nothing to do with not liking alcohol (although I am quite limited in
what I like to drink) I don't see the pleasure in sitting in a noisy pub.
In the old days of course it was smoke filled too. We rarely go out unless
it is with friends and it is much nicer to be in a civilised dining room
with good food too.
ps I hate champagne:)
--
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/
> X-No-Archive:Yes
> On Monday, 2 September 2013 22:39:23 UTC+1, Ophelia wrote:
>
>>> Me too O, I don't go into pubs, never have, I blame it on my Ma :-)
>> Awww poor Ma:) I have just never been interested:) Really I can think
>> of
>> many places I would rather be than in a pub!
>
> I didn't get a taste for alcohol of any kind until about 12 years or so
>
>>> Me too O, I don't go into pubs, never have, I blame it on my Ma :-)
>> Awww poor Ma:) I have just never been interested:) Really I can think
>> of
>> many places I would rather be than in a pub!
>
> ago. I blame the airline, they served me Champagne, we toasted my late
> Father. I was flying with my daughters, a couple of months after my
> Father died. My Father had asked me to give them a legacy (legacy meaning
> a present from him). I could think of no better way than to enjoy a
> holiday in Barbados, something he would have done had he lived. We felt
> he was with us the entire time. We raised many a glass to Daddy, hence my
> late found liking for chilled white wine.
Nice:)
It's nothing to do with not liking alcohol (although I am quite limited in
what I like to drink) I don't see the pleasure in sitting in a noisy pub.
In the old days of course it was smoke filled too. We rarely go out unless
it is with friends and it is much nicer to be in a civilised dining room
with good food too.
ps I hate champagne:)
--
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/
Ophelia
Sep 3, 2013, 6:01:35 AM9/3/13
to
"Martin" <m...@address.invalid> wrote in message
news:bgab29p9uudu35bbd...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 3 Sep 2013 02:09:32 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France
> <judith...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>>X-No-Archive:Yes
> <judith...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>>X-No-Archive:Yes
>>On Monday, 2 September 2013 22:39:23 UTC+1, Ophelia wrote:
>>
>>
>>>> Me too O, I don't go into pubs, never have, I blame it on my Ma :-)
>>> Awww poor Ma:) I have just never been interested:) Really I can think
>>> of
>>> many places I would rather be than in a pub!
>>
>>> Awww poor Ma:) I have just never been interested:) Really I can think
>>> of
>>> many places I would rather be than in a pub!
>>
>>I didn't get a taste for alcohol of any kind until about 12 years or so
>>ago. I blame the airline, they served me Champagne, we toasted my late
>>Father. I was flying with my daughters, a couple of months after my
>>Father died. My Father had asked me to give them a legacy (legacy meaning
>>a present from him). I could think of no better way than to enjoy a
>>holiday in Barbados, something he would have done had he lived. We felt
>>he was with us the entire time. We raised many a glass to Daddy, hence my
>>late found liking for chilled white wine.
>
> O forgot that she frequents pubs that we use in N Yorkshire.
>>ago. I blame the airline, they served me Champagne, we toasted my late
>>Father. I was flying with my daughters, a couple of months after my
>>Father died. My Father had asked me to give them a legacy (legacy meaning
>>a present from him). I could think of no better way than to enjoy a
>>holiday in Barbados, something he would have done had he lived. We felt
>>he was with us the entire time. We raised many a glass to Daddy, hence my
>>late found liking for chilled white wine.
>
Not true pubs as we knew them though eh?
--
--
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Ophelia
Sep 3, 2013, 6:02:32 AM9/3/13
to
news:fa7ca1b8-aef4-43bc...@googlegroups.com...
> X-No-Archive:Yes
>
> Saying I don't use pubs is not strictly accurate, when in the UK, I do eat
> in some pubs, I think these days they are called gastropubs? I have never
> just been in a pub for a drink, I can do that at home??????
Exactly!
> How am I doing with this pesky editing Martin?
Well I'm not Martin but it looks good to me. Is it very onerous doing this
editing?
--
--
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> X-No-Archive:Yes
> On Tuesday, 3 September 2013 10:22:02 UTC+1, Martin wrote:
>> O forgot that she frequents pubs that we use in N Yorkshire.
>> Martin in Zuid Holland
>> O forgot that she frequents pubs that we use in N Yorkshire.
>
> Saying I don't use pubs is not strictly accurate, when in the UK, I do eat
> in some pubs, I think these days they are called gastropubs? I have never
> just been in a pub for a drink, I can do that at home??????
Exactly!
> How am I doing with this pesky editing Martin?
Well I'm not Martin but it looks good to me. Is it very onerous doing this
editing?
--
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/
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Ophelia
Sep 3, 2013, 6:16:59 AM9/3/13
to
"Ophelia" <Oph...@elsinore.me.ku.invalid> wrote in message
news:b8lqe0...@mid.individual.net...
places like the Fox and Rabbit which has its own separate little dining
room. Anyway, the only time we go to those places is when we are away,
never when we are at home. I would no more go into the kind of pub that
only sells drinks and stuff like crisps than I would want to fly to the
moon. Do you still use those places?
--
--
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Ophelia
Sep 3, 2013, 6:45:19 AM9/3/13
to
"Martin" <m...@address.invalid> wrote in message
When I think of pubs, I think of the awful places we used to go when I was
young. I even hated them then! One of my in'laws took us to one a year or
two back so I know they still exist.
--
--
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Sacha
Sep 3, 2013, 6:51:17 AM9/3/13
to
guffaws of disbelieving laughter. For years it was beer or spirits or
forget it! And crisps was all you could get - some were a bit more
inventive and sold sausages. I remember one not far from Oxford Street
that did that - just sausages, wrapped in a paper napkin, I think.
--
Sacha
South Devon
Ophelia
Sep 3, 2013, 7:01:28 AM9/3/13
to
"Martin" <m...@address.invalid> wrote in message
> line. I told her how to fix it, but ...
> Gawd only knows what Google is playing at.
> There were signs that my Gmail account was hacked at the weekend.
Oh:( I only use that because it connects to my Android phone aps, but I
never use it for anything else. I don't trust google enough. I am sure I
read recently that g.mail was flogging off info from its users.
--
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Ophelia
Sep 3, 2013, 7:02:43 AM9/3/13
to
"Sacha" <not...@landscovedevon.com> wrote in message
news:b8lt95...@mid.individual.net...
--
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Ophelia
Sep 3, 2013, 6:58:49 AM9/3/13
to
"Martin" <m...@address.invalid> wrote in message
> although I knew lots when I was young. The Goathland pub that was
> featured in Heartbeat didn't sell food the last time we visited it two
> or three years ago. Same grumpy owner, who was new when he kicked us
> out when the kids were 14/16. The pub relied on families, so
> definitely a bad move. I suppose the money Yorkshire TV paid him kept
> him going. He must have wondered why the pub was always full in
> Heartbeat.
We went to that pub in Goathland - once! (I thought that was around 2/3
years ago; must have been longer) Small tables crammed into the bar and the
food was nondescript. I didn't really expect it to be the same as in
Heartbeat but it couldn't have been much more different.
--
--
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Sacha
Sep 3, 2013, 7:09:24 AM9/3/13
to
them and for some reason, pub culture is different in the CIs. Few
women went to them when I was young and absolutely never, ever without
a male escort! To this day I'd find it impossible to walk into a pub
just to have a drink, though I might go in for a meal alone, taking my
Kindle with me!
--
Sacha
South Devon
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