Bonfire Toffee

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Mel K

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Nov 8, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/8/00
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This may stump you. I come from east lancashire and this used to be all the
rage around this time. Its not treacle toffee but it is made with it and it
is brittle. Anybody:
1) Know of it
2) Know where I can get some from
3) Have a recipe for it

Jane Willis

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Nov 8, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/8/00
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Mel K wrote:
>
> This may stump you. I come from east lancashire and this used to be all the
> rage around this time. Its not treacle toffee but it is made with it and it
> is brittle. Anybody:
> 1) Know of it

Yes, yes, YES! My Grandma always used to buy a bag for bonfire night.
I've never had toffee as crisp since.


> 2) Know where I can get some from

alas no


> 3) Have a recipe for it

I wish I did
--
Jane Willis

Mary Fisher

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Nov 8, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/8/00
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Mel K <m...@unseen.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8ubrj8$7kt$1...@news5.svr.pol.co.uk...

> This may stump you. I come from east lancashire and this used
to be all the
> rage around this time. Its not treacle toffee but it is made
with it and it
> is brittle. Anybody:
> 1) Know of it

Yes - even though I'm from west Yorkshire ;-)

> 2) Know where I can get some from

Make it yourself.

> 3) Have a recipe for it

Yup:

4 oz butter
8 oz treacle (choose for yourself whether golden syrup, green
treacle [1] or a mixture).
16 oz brown sugar
1 tablespoon vinegar.

[1] sometimes called black treacle

Boil all together for about 20 minutes until it's at the brittle
setting stage.
DO NOT STIR.
Pour quickly into a butter-greased toffee tin.
Wait until thoroughly cold them tap with a toffee hammer.
Enjoy!

Mary

>
>


Rudolph Hucker

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Nov 8, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/8/00
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Mel K <m...@unseen.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8ubrj8$7kt$1...@news5.svr.pol.co.uk...
> This may stump you. I come from east lancashire and this used to be all
the
> rage around this time. Its not treacle toffee but it is made with it and
it
> is brittle. Anybody:
> 1) Know of it
> 2) Know where I can get some from
> 3) Have a recipe for it
>
>

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/pagrosse/RecipeBonfireToffee.htm
http://www.hotpots.com/Categories/Mollys.htm
http://www.northern-scot.co.uk/paper/cooking/morag/bonfiretoffee.htm
http://www.bcpl.net/~cbladey/guy/html/celbfood.html

Are those who can successfully use a search engine in a minority, I wonder?

Mary Fisher

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Nov 8, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/8/00
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Rudolph Hucker <skank...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3a09...@news.server.worldonline.co.uk...

>
> Mel K <m...@unseen.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:8ubrj8$7kt$1...@news5.svr.pol.co.uk...
> > This may stump you. I come from east lancashire and this used
to be all
> the
> > rage around this time. Its not treacle toffee but it is made
with it and
> it
> > is brittle. Anybody:
> > 1) Know of it
> > 2) Know where I can get some from
> > 3) Have a recipe for it
> >
<snip blue words>

>
> Are those who can successfully use a search engine in a
minority, I wonder?

Of course not. Most of us prefer to ask the friends on this
newsgroup. That's one of its functions.

Mary
>
>

Mel K

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Nov 9, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/9/00
to
EXCUSE ME!

I did use a search engine and did not come up with any useful hits so I
think your comment was unnecessary and you should wonder in private instead
of potentially starting a flame war. I'd rather ask on the newsgroup anyway
as people have used these recipes and have alot of experience to pass on. If
you feel that way don't reply in future.

Mel K

"Rudolph Hucker" <skank...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3a09...@news.server.worldonline.co.uk...

> Are those who can successfully use a search engine in a minority, I
wonder?


K425

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Nov 9, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/9/00
to

"Mel K" <m...@unseen.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8udlnp$796$1...@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...

> "Rudolph Hucker" <skank...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:3a09...@news.server.worldonline.co.uk...
>
> > Are those who can successfully use a search engine in a minority,
> > I wonder?

> EXCUSE ME!


>
> I did use a search engine and did not come up with any useful hits
> so I think your comment was unnecessary and you should wonder in
> private instead of potentially starting a flame war. I'd rather ask
> on the newsgroup anyway as people have used these recipes and have
> alot of experience to pass on. If you feel that way don't reply in
> future.

Well, he has a point. It's very easy to say "where can I get a
recipe?". Perhaps if you'd said "I've looked for but not found a
recipe" he'd have been a bit more gracious.

--
The rain was never cold when I was young
I'm still young

Mel K

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Nov 9, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/9/00
to
Yeah ok but he did not have to reply in the first place and as I said I
value the experience of the people in this newsgroup.

Mel K

"K425" <li...@REMOVETHISlindsayendell.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8udmvc$2dgu$1...@godfrey.mcc.ac.uk...

Jane Willis

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Nov 9, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/9/00
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I seem to have missed some posts here but surely if you look through a
search engine you just get the recipes - if you ask on this group you
get people who have tried and tested them and can recommend ones that
exactly fit your requirements? Search engines are very useful tools, but
like all tools they don't have opinions.
--
Jane Willis

Mel K

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Nov 9, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/9/00
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Thanks Jane My point exactly

Mel K

"Jane Willis" <jane....@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:3A0A69EC...@ntlworld.com...

Jennifer Sparkes

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Nov 9, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/9/00
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The message <3A0A69EC...@ntlworld.com>
from Jane Willis <jane....@ntlworld.com>
contains these words:

> I seem to have missed some posts here but surely
> if you look through a search engine you just get the
> recipes - if you ask on this group you get people who
>have tried and tested them and can recommend ones
> that exactly fit your requirements? Search engines
> are very useful tools, but like all tools they don't have
>opinions.

I too must have missed some posts, glad it is not just
me.
Looks as if I have got the idea of how this group
works all wrong if Rudolph Hucker is to be
believed . :--(((

I agree with Jane one can find a recipe *but* there is
nothing like getting help/ideas/tips/ from someone
who has actually made it.

Jennifer Sparkes


K425

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Nov 9, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/9/00
to

"Mel K" <m...@unseen.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8udnjv$8n9$1...@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...

> "K425" <li...@REMOVETHISlindsayendell.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:8udmvc$2dgu$1...@godfrey.mcc.ac.uk...

> > Well, he has a point. It's very easy to say "where can I get a


> > recipe?". Perhaps if you'd said "I've looked for but not found a
> > recipe" he'd have been a bit more gracious.

> Yeah ok but he did not have to reply in the first place and as I


> said I value the experience of the people in this newsgroup.

Like me, he's probably seen lots of groups where people expect other
people to do their homework for them. I know that's not what you were
doing, but try and see it from the other side.

OTOH, yes, it's also nice to get other people's on what recipes work
for them. And there've been a couple posted. So you won all round,
really, Mel - you got recipes posted to the group, and you got some
URLs to go and look at as well.

The big question is, are you going to try all of the recipes and tell
us which one you prefer :-)

Mel K

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Nov 9, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/9/00
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Eventually yes but most of them are roughly the same so watch this space.

Mel K

"K425" <li...@REMOVETHISlindsayendell.co.uk> wrote in message

news:8ue2gb$2m37$1...@godfrey.mcc.ac.uk...

swroot

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Nov 9, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/9/00
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Jennifer Sparkes <jspa...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:

> The message <3A0A69EC...@ntlworld.com>
> from Jane Willis <jane....@ntlworld.com>
> contains these words:
>
> > I seem to have missed some posts here but surely
> > if you look through a search engine you just get the
> > recipes - if you ask on this group you get people who
> >have tried and tested them and can recommend ones
> > that exactly fit your requirements? Search engines
> > are very useful tools, but like all tools they don't have
> >opinions.
>
> I too must have missed some posts, glad it is not just
> me.
> Looks as if I have got the idea of how this group
> works all wrong if Rudolph Hucker is to be
> believed . :--(((

Don't believe him :-) Why should you believe him? Could be a her, for
that matter... who's to know? Anyone here ever met him/her/it? In fact
he/she/it may be a figment of our collective subconscious. Come to think
of it, reality itself (including you lot) may be a figment of my
subconscious.

Help!

regards
sarah

ObBonfireToffee: the newsagent is selling small bags of the stuff.

--
"He opened up his eyes and he snapped out of the groove
He saw both sides of everything and found he could not move"

Rudolph Hucker

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Nov 9, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/9/00
to

Jennifer Sparkes <jspa...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:200011091...@zetnet.co.uk...

> The message <3A0A69EC...@ntlworld.com>
> from Jane Willis <jane....@ntlworld.com>
> contains these words:
>
> > I seem to have missed some posts here but surely
> > if you look through a search engine you just get the
> > recipes - if you ask on this group you get people who
> >have tried and tested them and can recommend ones
> > that exactly fit your requirements? Search engines
> > are very useful tools, but like all tools they don't have
> >opinions.
>
> I too must have missed some posts, glad it is not just
> me.
> Looks as if I have got the idea of how this group
> works all wrong if Rudolph Hucker is to be
> believed .
(((
>
> I agree with Jane one can find a recipe *but* there is
> nothing like getting help/ideas/tips/ from someone
> who has actually made it.
>
> Jennifer Sparkes
>

I was not rude. It was merely an observation. If people ask questions which have obvious answers they should expect to receive them. If they are asking for opinions then hopefully they will receive those also. However, I note that Mel K has not received any actual replies to her request but mine therefore mine must be the most relevant and useful to her. Do I receive any thanks for my time researching recipes for her? No, just criticism of the sentence added at the end as a humerous "aside" or observation.
I do feel there is too much of this playground mentality in newsgroups. It seems that the longest threads are just endless sad little whinges, one after the other.
In summing up I must add just one word which I feel is highly relevant: bumholes!
;o)
RH
P.S. I hope the toffee gets stuck under your top plate.
P.P.S. Before anybody says it, this is not another sad little whinge to add to the thread. This is a very happy, well-balanced big whinge.


Rudolph Hucker

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Nov 9, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/9/00
to

Jennifer Sparkes <jspa...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:200011091...@zetnet.co.uk...
> The message <3A0A69EC...@ntlworld.com>
> from Jane Willis <jane....@ntlworld.com>
> contains these words:
>
> > I seem to have missed some posts here but surely
> > if you look through a search engine you just get the
> > recipes - if you ask on this group you get people who
> >have tried and tested them and can recommend ones
> > that exactly fit your requirements? Search engines
> > are very useful tools, but like all tools they don't have
> >opinions.

It's.........TOFFEE!! It's not rocket science. It's not advanced French
cuisine, it's boiled sugar!

>
> I too must have missed some posts, glad it is not just
> me.
> Looks as if I have got the idea of how this group
> works all wrong if Rudolph Hucker is to be
> believed .
(((

Anyone got any toast recipes? Just plain ones mind. Perhaps you have a favourite way of toasting it? Tried and tested methods and all that. Dear me.
I didn't get my name for nothing, you know :o)
Take a joke, there's a love.

Mel K

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Nov 9, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/9/00
to
Actually I did receive a reply to my message and I am not going to thank
somebody who ended up insulting me. If you think this is playground
mentality then you cannot take criticism. Most people who replied to my
message agree that this NG is also here for advice and I am certainly not
going to stop asking for it or giving it if I can. I am also not going to
put in each message that I have already done a search as Like Myself most
people tend to assume that this has already been done.
If this is the way you feel please don't bother to reply to any of my
messages in future. I believe you have that perogative. End of discussion

Mel K


"Rudolph Hucker" <skank...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message

news:3a0a...@news.server.worldonline.co.uk...


>
> Jennifer Sparkes <jspa...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:200011091...@zetnet.co.uk...
> > The message <3A0A69EC...@ntlworld.com>
> > from Jane Willis <jane....@ntlworld.com>
> > contains these words:
> >
> > > I seem to have missed some posts here but surely
> > > if you look through a search engine you just get the
> > > recipes - if you ask on this group you get people who
> > >have tried and tested them and can recommend ones
> > > that exactly fit your requirements? Search engines
> > > are very useful tools, but like all tools they don't have
> > >opinions.
> >

> > I too must have missed some posts, glad it is not just
> > me.
> > Looks as if I have got the idea of how this group
> > works all wrong if Rudolph Hucker is to be
> > believed .
> (((
> >

> > I agree with Jane one can find a recipe *but* there is
> > nothing like getting help/ideas/tips/ from someone
> > who has actually made it.
> >
> > Jennifer Sparkes
> >
>

Mel K

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Nov 9, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/9/00
to
> Anyone got any toast recipes? Just plain ones mind. Perhaps you have a
favourite way of toasting it? Tried and tested methods and all that. Dear
me.
> I didn't get my name for nothing, you know :o)
> Take a joke, there's a love.

First my wife CAN take a joke. What she can't stand is narrowmindedness..
Her first message was a request for help. Now if she was requesting help
that means she's exhausted the search engines that she knows about. Seeing
as I work as a Webadmin I can quite happily say that we both know how to use
search engines quite well, but I for one will not sit there and trawl round
the hundreds of different engines just to find the elusive pages. Ok so you
found something maybe when my wife did the search she didn't cover EVERY
possibility of bonfire+toffee or "bonfire toffee" or perhaps she did get
results but after checking them they turned out to be dud's. Generally
before offering advice (if thats what yours can be called) most people
actually check their information. Apprently only 1 or 2 were actually the
"Bonfire Toffee" she remembers.

I can quite merrily sit here and search through approx 230 search engines if
I so wished, but it would be humanly impossible to sift through all the
information just to find 1 or 2 recipes.

Now if you actually check the posts she did get a recipe in a reply. So
lets stop the bickering before this turns into an all out flame war and
people just end up getting placed in a killfile.

Rob Kershaw

Mary Fisher

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Nov 9, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/9/00
to

K425 <li...@REMOVETHISlindsayendell.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8ue2gb$2m37$1...@godfrey.mcc.ac.uk...
>
> "Mel K" <m...@unseen.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:8udnjv$8n9$1...@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
> > "K425" <li...@REMOVETHISlindsayendell.co.uk> wrote in message
> > news:8udmvc$2dgu$1...@godfrey.mcc.ac.uk...
>
> > > Well, he has a point. It's very easy to say "where can I
get a
> > > recipe?". Perhaps if you'd said "I've looked for but not
found a
> > > recipe" he'd have been a bit more gracious.
>
> > Yeah ok but he did not have to reply in the first place and
as I
> > said I value the experience of the people in this newsgroup.
>
> Like me, he's probably seen lots of groups where people expect
other
> people to do their homework for them. I know that's not what
you were
> doing, but try and see it from the other side.

Oh come on! This isn't an academic ng. Most of us actually like
handing on our experience and ideas. No-one has to read it.
No-one has to reply. If we want to reply we shall.

As I said in my other post, we're friends here - or most of us
are.

Welcome, Mel. Don't get upset by people who think they are
superior. They're not.

Mary

Rudolph Hucker

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Nov 9, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/9/00
to

----- Original Message -----
From: Mel K <m...@unseen.co.uk>
To: Rudolph Hucker <skank...@yahoo.co.uk>
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2000 7:35 PM
Subject: Re: Bonfire Toffee


> > Anyone got any toast recipes? Just plain ones mind. Perhaps you have a
> favourite way of toasting it? Tried and tested methods and all that. Dear
> me.
> > I didn't get my name for nothing, you know :o)
> > Take a joke, there's a love.
>
> First my wife CAN take a joke. What she can't stand is narrowmindedness..
> Her first message was a request for help.

I helped.

> Now if she was requesting help that means she's exhausted the search
engines that she knows about. Seeing
> as I work as a Webadmin I can quite happily say that we both know how to
use
> search engines quite well, but I for one will not sit there and trawl
round
> the hundreds of different engines just to find the elusive pages.

I used the first I came across and typed "bonfire toffee". There were no
derogatory remarks at all. Nothing to complain about.

> Ok so you
> found something maybe when my wife did the search she didn't cover EVERY
> possibility of bonfire+toffee or "bonfire toffee" or perhaps she did get
> results but after checking them they turned out to be dud's. Generally
> before offering advice (if thats what yours can be called) most people
> actually check their information. Apprently only 1 or 2 were actually the
> "Bonfire Toffee" she remembers.

That's why I submitted more than one reference

>
> I can quite merrily sit here and search through approx 230 search engines
if
> I so wished, but it would be humanly impossible to sift through all the
> information just to find 1 or 2 recipes.

It took 60 seconds. I used Webferret.

>
> Now if you actually check the posts she did get a recipe in a reply. So
> lets stop the bickering

I do not bicker, I state the facts. I helped. If you wish to take the
reference to the use of a search engine as an insult that is entirely your
prerogative. If I had not wanted to help I would have merely posted the
often used "Use a search engine!" and left it at that. *This* I consider
rude and consequently I would have expected your response.


before this turns into an all out flame war and
> people just end up getting placed in a killfile.

This does not concern me in the least. I repeat: there was a request for
help and I took time to respond to it.


>
> Rob Kershaw
>
>


Mary Fisher

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Nov 9, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/9/00
to

swroot <swr...@farm-direct.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1ejtz3d.1sgm8lv1gu2glyN%swr...@farm-direct.co.uk...

> Jennifer Sparkes <jspa...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > The message <3A0A69EC...@ntlworld.com>
> > from Jane Willis <jane....@ntlworld.com>
> > contains these words:
> >
> > > I seem to have missed some posts here but surely
> > > if you look through a search engine you just get the
> > > recipes - if you ask on this group you get people who
> > >have tried and tested them and can recommend ones
> > > that exactly fit your requirements? Search engines
> > > are very useful tools, but like all tools they don't have
> > >opinions.
> >
> > I too must have missed some posts, glad it is not just
> > me.
> > Looks as if I have got the idea of how this group
> > works all wrong if Rudolph Hucker is to be
> > believed .
(((
>
> Don't believe him :-) Why should you believe him? Could be a her, for
> that matter... who's to know? Anyone here ever met him/her/it? In fact
> he/she/it may be a figment of our collective subconscious. Come to think
> of it, reality itself (including you lot) may be a figment of my
> subconscious.
>
> Help!

Would you like to talk about it, dear?

Have a nice cup of tea.

Thinks - what if Sarah's subconscious is a figment of mine? What does that make me and Rudolph?

I think I'll go for a cup of tea. Anyone any ideas for how to make one?

Mary

Mary Fisher

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Nov 9, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/9/00
to

Rudolph Hucker <skank...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3a0a...@news.server.worldonline.co.uk...
>
> Jennifer Sparkes <jspa...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:200011091...@zetnet.co.uk...
> > The message <3A0A69EC...@ntlworld.com>
> > from Jane Willis <jane....@ntlworld.com>
> > contains these words:
> >
> > > I seem to have missed some posts here but surely
> > > if you look through a search engine you just get the
> > > recipes - if you ask on this group you get people who
> > >have tried and tested them and can recommend ones
> > > that exactly fit your requirements? Search engines
> > > are very useful tools, but like all tools they don't have
> > >opinions.
> >
> > I too must have missed some posts, glad it is not just
> > me.
> > Looks as if I have got the idea of how this group
> > works all wrong if Rudolph Hucker is to be
> > believed .
>

> >


> > I agree with Jane one can find a recipe *but* there is
> > nothing like getting help/ideas/tips/ from someone
> > who has actually made it.
> >
> > Jennifer Sparkes
> >
>
> I was not rude. It was merely an observation. If people ask
questions which have obvious answers they should expect to
receive them. If they are asking for opinions then hopefully they
will receive those also. However, I note that Mel K has not
received any actual replies to her request but mine therefore
mine must be the most relevant and useful to her. Do I receive
any thanks for my time researching recipes for her? No, just
criticism of the sentence added at the end as a humerous "aside"
or observation.
> I do feel there is too much of this playground mentality in
newsgroups. It seems that the longest threads are just endless
sad little whinges, one after the other.
> In summing up I must add just one word which I feel is highly
relevant: bumholes!
> ;o)
> RH
> P.S. I hope the toffee gets stuck under your top plate.
> P.P.S. Before anybody says it, this is not another sad little
whinge to add to the thread. This is a very happy, well-balanced
big whinge.

*plonk*

Mary
>
>
>


Faith Myers

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Nov 9, 2000, 8:09:26 PM11/9/00
to
Before this gets totally out of hand (ignore anyone who seems to be
insulting, it is possible they are attempting to be witty. Without facial
expression it is not easy to tell!)..............what sort of pan would be
best for making bonfire toffee in? HWUTT is drooling at the thought of
ANYTHING with black treacle in, so I suppose I ought to humour him. BUT do I
have to stand and watch it for however long or what?
More assistance required, please.
BTW
Sorry I'm top-posting, but I'm tired and emotional (3 B&Bs, plus 3 cans of
Scrumpy Jack, and I've just watched Shakespeare in Love for the third time!)
and I can't be a***d to do the usual cut-and-paste.
At least you don't actually have to read through all the preceding stuff,
since it's underneath!

--
Faith
A closed mouth gathers no feet.

Mary Fisher <ma...@38smv.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8uf38o$9oc$1...@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...

swroot

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Nov 10, 2000, 2:30:19 AM11/10/00
to
<xenop...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 9 Nov 2000 11:32:45 GMT, Jennifer Sparkes
> <jspa...@zetnet.co.uk>, absently arranged the Scrabble tiles to
> spell out -

> >The message <3A0A69EC...@ntlworld.com>
> > from Jane Willis <jane....@ntlworld.com>
> > contains these words:
> >
> >> I seem to have missed some posts here but surely
> >> if you look through a search engine you just get the
> >> recipes - if you ask on this group you get people who
> >>have tried and tested them and can recommend ones
> >> that exactly fit your requirements? Search engines
> >> are very useful tools, but like all tools they don't have
> >>opinions.
> >
> > I too must have missed some posts, glad it is not just
> > me.
> > Looks as if I have got the idea of how this group
> > works all wrong if Rudolph Hucker is to be

> > believed . :--(((

> >
> > I agree with Jane one can find a recipe *but* there is
> > nothing like getting help/ideas/tips/ from someone
> > who has actually made it.
>

> It's friendlier than a web-site, too.

Bearing in mind we don't send cookies, just recipes for them :-)

regards
sarah

swroot

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Nov 10, 2000, 2:36:45 AM11/10/00
to
Mary Fisher <ma...@38smv.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

> swroot <swr...@farm-direct.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:1ejtz3d.1sgm8lv1gu2glyN%swr...@farm-direct.co.uk...
> > Jennifer Sparkes <jspa...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
> >

> > > The message <3A0A69EC...@ntlworld.com>
> > > from Jane Willis <jane....@ntlworld.com>
> > > contains these words:
> > >
> > > > I seem to have missed some posts here but surely
> > > > if you look through a search engine you just get the
> > > > recipes - if you ask on this group you get people who
> > > >have tried and tested them and can recommend ones
> > > > that exactly fit your requirements? Search engines
> > > > are very useful tools, but like all tools they don't have
> > > >opinions.
> > >
> > > I too must have missed some posts, glad it is not just
> > > me.
> > > Looks as if I have got the idea of how this group
> > > works all wrong if Rudolph Hucker is to be
> > > believed .

> (((
> >
> > Don't believe him :-) Why should you believe him? Could be a her, for
> > that matter... who's to know? Anyone here ever met him/her/it? In fact
> > he/she/it may be a figment of our collective subconscious. Come to think
> > of it, reality itself (including you lot) may be a figment of my
> > subconscious.
> >
> > Help!
>
> Would you like to talk about it, dear?

Dangerous. You might all cease to exist. I'll distract myself with some
loud music... you figments carry on as you will :-)

>
> Have a nice cup of tea.
>
> Thinks - what if Sarah's subconscious is a figment of mine? What does that
make me and Rudolph?

> I think I'll go for a cup of tea. Anyone any ideas for how to make one?

I've got *lots* of ideas... but people have been known to politely pour
my poor attempts at English tea into the sink and offer to make their
own. There's nothing wrong with the ingredients, it's my technique :-)

Speaking of drinks, I bought a bottle of Bottle Green 'Spiced Berry'
Cordial yesterday. It's quite pleasant in a non-tea fashion.

The Reids

unread,
Nov 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/10/00
to
Following up to Faith Myers :


>Sorry I'm top-posting, but I'm tired and emotional (3 B&Bs, plus 3 cans of
>Scrumpy Jack, and I've just watched Shakespeare in Love for the third time!)
>and I can't be a***d to do the usual cut-and-paste.
>At least you don't actually have to read through all the preceding stuff,
>since it's underneath!

Yes, about time somebody cooled this thread down. How did you get
thrown out of the first two B&B's ?
--
Mike Reid
"Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon" Dalai lama
My favourite cookery books at "http://users.outdoor-pursuits.com/fellwalker/ebooks2.htm"

Faith Myers

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Nov 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/10/00
to
The Reids > wrote in message > How did you get > thrown out of the first two
B&B's ?

Acksherly...................I threw them down me!
The inside of me, that is.

Stands for Brandy & Babycham! (I lead an interesting life!!)

b a hunter

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Nov 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/10/00
to
Wow, that's a drink from my misspect youth. sorry wrong specs, misspent.
On the subject of pans, I too need one to make tablet. When I made it before it
all burnt on the bottom but when I asked in local department store they said
they all had the same bottoms. Do I need a specialist shop?
BA


Edward Sparkes

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Nov 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/10/00
to
The message <973857190.27011.0...@news.demon.co.uk>
from "Faith Myers" <fmy...@xenopus.co.uk> contains these words:

> The Reids > wrote in message > How did you get > thrown out of the first two
> B&B's ?
> Acksherly...................I threw them down me!
> The inside of me, that is.

> Stands for Brandy & Babycham! (I lead an interesting life!!)

Lead a more interesting one drinking (B & B).

Brandy and Benedictine.

Brandy & Babycham? Latecomer. Only introduced in the last
century. ;)


Mary Fisher

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Nov 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/10/00
to

swroot <swr...@farm-direct.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1ejve9h.72kb3bhk62kuN%swr...@farm-direct.co.uk...

> Mary Fisher <ma...@38smv.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> > > Don't believe him :-) Why should you believe him? Could be
a her, for
> > > that matter... who's to know? Anyone here ever met
him/her/it? In fact
> > > he/she/it may be a figment of our collective subconscious.
Come to think
> > > of it, reality itself (including you lot) may be a figment
of my
> > > subconscious.
> > >
> > > Help!
> >
> > Would you like to talk about it, dear?
>
> Dangerous. You might all cease to exist. I'll distract myself
with some
> loud music... you figments carry on as you will :-)
>
> >
> > Have a nice cup of tea.
> >
> > Thinks - what if Sarah's subconscious is a figment of mine?
What does that
> make me and Rudolph?
>
> > I think I'll go for a cup of tea. Anyone any ideas for how to
make one?
>
> I've got *lots* of ideas... but people have been known to
politely pour
> my poor attempts at English tea into the sink

I DIDN'T!!!!

> and offer to make their
> own.

Well, might have done that, in the most diplomatic way ;-)

> There's nothing wrong with the ingredients, it's my technique
:-)

I have the same problem. that's why I get YKW to do it.


>
> Speaking of drinks, I bought a bottle of Bottle Green 'Spiced
Berry'
> Cordial yesterday. It's quite pleasant in a non-tea fashion.

I look forward to it, in the most diplomatic way <G>

Mary


Mary Fisher

unread,
Nov 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/10/00
to

Faith Myers <fmy...@xenopus.co.uk> wrote in message
news:973818814.10946.0...@news.demon.co.uk...

> Before this gets totally out of hand (ignore anyone who seems
to be
> insulting, it is possible they are attempting to be witty.
Without facial
> expression it is not easy to tell!)..............what sort of
pan would be
> best for making bonfire toffee in? HWUTT is drooling at the
thought of
> ANYTHING with black treacle in, so I suppose I ought to humour
him. BUT do I
> have to stand and watch it for however long or what?
> More assistance required, please.
> BTW
> Sorry I'm top-posting, but I'm tired and emotional (3 B&Bs,
plus 3 cans of
> Scrumpy Jack, and I've just watched Shakespeare in Love for the
third time!)
> and I can't be a***d to do the usual cut-and-paste.
> At least you don't actually have to read through all the
preceding stuff,
> since it's underneath!

... you'll be in trouble from some ...

But not me. I can take anything, we're all different.

The heavist pan you can find. Don't watch it, don't stir it.
After about 15 minutes test it by dropping some in cold water and
picking it out. If it's snappy it's OK. If it isn't cook it some
more.

Well, that's what the books say ;-)

Mary Fisher

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Nov 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/10/00
to

Faith Myers <fmy...@xenopus.co.uk> wrote in message
news:973857190.27011.0...@news.demon.co.uk...

> The Reids > wrote in message > How did you get > thrown out of
the first two
> B&B's ?
>
> Acksherly...................I threw them down me!
> The inside of me, that is.
>
> Stands for Brandy & Babycham! (I lead an interesting life!!)

Oh, and here we all were thinking of you as a landlady!

Mary

Faith Myers

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Nov 10, 2000, 8:59:59 PM11/10/00
to
Mary Fisher > wrote in message > The heaviest pan you can find etc etc

Thank you, Mary..........I should have known you were the one to ask!

OK, I will give this a go using one of my (seriously expensive) stainless
steel pans.............................but not this weekend. It was supposed
to have been our final singthing, but no-one could come so we're just doing
the close friendly bit and 7 of us are eating at our local tomorrow
(Saturday) night. Mind you, there will probably be a sing in the bar at
lunchtime, but since noone knows where we are you can't come and join us.
Your loss, not ours.
(PS - If you'ld really like to know where this is happening, emailme ASAP
and I'll let you know. New faces always welcome!

--
Faith
My idea of housework is sweeping the room with a glance.

Mary Fisher

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Nov 11, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/11/00
to

Faith Myers <fmy...@xenopus.co.uk> wrote in message
news:973908247.8137.0...@news.demon.co.uk...

> Mary Fisher > wrote in message > The heaviest pan you can find
etc etc
>
> Thank you, Mary..........I should have known you were the one
to ask!

Faith, I'll take that as a compliment. But I seriously hope that
you don't think that I know more than anyone else on f+d because
I don't. I don't even THINK that I do. This is my favourite ng
because I learn so much from it and mostly it's very well
mannered. People who aren't don't seem to last long!

So why do I come across as knowing so much? I think it's a
function of frequency - I respond to anything which interests me
and if I DO know anything I say so. My name is familiar as a
result and folk think I'm noisy.

It's also a function of age. I've been eating, drinking, cooking,
baking and making children's specialities like bonfire toffee for
a very long time (but not more than most hereabouts, I think
Edward wins that award). Cooking with exotic ingredients also
isn't one of my strengths because I've done so little - even when
I worked in a Chinese restaurant but that was a long time ago and
even they didn't use anything more exotic than monosodium
glutamate because they were catering for the then unadventurous
English. In my childhood things were hard, food was rationed and
we ate things which Adrian would find very scary but when you're
hungry - and don't know any different - it's surprising what
you'll enjoy. I doubt that I'll be able to give the benefit of my
knowledge of cow heel stew on f+d though. Then as young parents
of a lot of children we were short of cash and long on hungry
mouths so had to make all our own food, you learn all sorts of
tricks doing that.

None of these means that I can even understand some of the things
people hereabouts discuss, others I shall probably try but
definitely wouldn't give advice on. Only the few things I do know
will get through my finger ends - and even then they're only my
ideas, other people's experiences are at least as valid as mine
and many will be sounder than mine.

I sincerely believe that I have received more than I have given
on f+d and I hope to continue doing so for a long time. I love
very good food and wine and the more I learn the more I enjoy it.

>
> It
was supposed
> to have been our final singthing, but no-one could come so
we're just doing
> the close friendly bit and 7 of us are eating at our local
tomorrow
> (Saturday) night. Mind you, there will probably be a sing in
the bar at
> lunchtime, but since noone knows where we are you can't come
and join us.
> Your loss, not ours.

I have no idea what you're talking about! Must have missed
something. Whatever it was, I hope it went well, Now if you'd
been doing it on Monday I might have been able to come, we're
taking the sheep to Wales then. Talk about coals to Newcastle!

Mary

Robert Goodrick

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Nov 12, 2000, 2:53:10 AM11/12/00
to

Mary Fisher wrote:
>
> Faith Myers <fmy...@xenopus.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:973908247.8137.0...@news.demon.co.uk...

> > Mary Fisher > wrote in message > The heaviest pan you can find
> etc etc
> >
> > Thank you, Mary..........I should have known you were the one
> to ask!
>

> > It
> was supposed
> > to have been our final singthing, but no-one could come so
> we're just doing
> > the close friendly bit and 7 of us are eating at our local
> tomorrow
> > (Saturday) night. Mind you, there will probably be a sing in
> the bar at
> > lunchtime, but since noone knows where we are you can't come
> and join us.
> > Your loss, not ours.
>

> I have no idea what you're talking about! Must have missed
> something. Whatever it was, I hope it went well, Now if you'd
> been doing it on Monday I might have been able to come, we're
> taking the sheep to Wales then. Talk about coals to Newcastle!
>
> Mary
>

> > Faith
> > My idea of housework is sweeping the room with a glance.
> >
> >
> >

Mary, any chance of getting the recipe for cow heal stew. It was one of
my favourite sunday dinners as a child that mum used to make, dad was
out of work for a year and half and what ever money was around mum
earned as a seamstress so we had to make do with Harry Firth the butcher
in the village gave mum. Any chance for a dummpling recipe as well to go
along with it.
I would ask my mum, the only problem is that she died in 86. Things I
crave that my mum and dad used to make, cheese and onion pie and dads
bread pudding was to die for.

TIA Robert.

Mary Fisher

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Nov 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/12/00
to

Robert Goodrick <rgoo...@home.com> wrote in message
news:3A0E4C30...@home.com...
>
>
> Mary Fisher wrote:

<snip>

> > I doubt that I'll be able to give the benefit of my
> > knowledge of cow heel stew on f+d though. > > >
> > >
> > >
>

> Mary, any chance of getting the recipe for cow heal stew.

The recipe isn't a problem. Getting cow heel is very difficult
post BSE and in affluent times. I don't suppose Harry Firth is
still around even if you're in the same village - even if the
village hasn't been swallowed up by a town or city ...

If you find some, ask me again!

It was one of
> my favourite sunday dinners as a child that mum used to make,
dad was
> out of work for a year and half and what ever money was around
mum
> earned as a seamstress so we had to make do with Harry Firth
the butcher
> in the village gave mum. Any chance for a dummpling recipe as
well to go
> along with it.

Come on! Dumplings are no problem. There are several ways of
making them though! For eating with stew of any kind use S.R.
flour, suet and breadcrumbs in the following proportions: 6,3,2.
Mix with pepper and salt and moisten with enough water to make a
stiffish dough which you roll into smallish balls in your hand
and drop immediately into boiling liquid - stew, fruit juice,
water, anything (never tried milk though and wouldn't recommend
it!) 'Smallish'? I'd say not more than two inches diameter. They
swell to double their size. The breadcrumbs make them lighter.

I've used wholemeal SR flour and w'meal breadcrumbs, they taste
better than when it's all white, to me. Dried herbs can be very
nice.

For veggies and dieters - I've used cottage cheese instead of
suet and included dried herbs. They're a bit heavier (oddly) than
the suet ones but still very good. Don't be tempted to use oil, I
did once and it was a disaster. There are some things you can't
substitute.

> I would ask my mum, the only problem is that she died in 86.
Things I
> crave that my mum and dad used to make, cheese and onion pie
and dads
> bread pudding was to die for.

The juxtaposition of these two statements ... ! Sorry, can't
resist wondering if it was a surfeit of bread pudding which
affected your Mum!

HTH

Mary


>
> TIA Robert.


Mary Fisher

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Nov 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/12/00
to

<xenop...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:423u0tc3cc4r9vt5a...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 12 Nov 2000 14:54:40 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
> <ma...@38smv.freeserve.co.uk>, absently arranged the Scrabble

tiles to
> spell out -
>
> Atora make a vegetable suet, which is very good. I always use
it in
> my steak & kidney pud, and in bacon pudden, spotted dick, jam
roly
> poly, etc.

Yeah, I knew someone would say that. To me it has no character,
compared with beef suet. It has no health virtues either, being
hydrogenated something or other, probably palm oil. I've used it
but wouldn't buy it again.

What's bacon pudden?

Mary
>
>


Wim Jay

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Nov 12, 2000, 7:09:25 PM11/12/00
to

"Robert Goodrick" <rgoo...@home.com> wrote in message
news:3A0E4C30...@home.com...
>
>
> Mary Fisher wrote:
> >
> > Faith Myers <fmy...@xenopus.co.uk> wrote in message
> > news:973908247.8137.0...@news.demon.co.uk...
> > > Mary Fisher > wrote in message > The heaviest pan you can find
> > etc etc
> > >
> > > Thank you, Mary..........I should have known you were the one
> > to ask!
> >
> > Faith, I'll take that as a compliment. But I seriously hope that
> > you don't think that I know more than anyone else on f+d because
> > I don't. I don't even THINK that I do. This is my favourite ng
> > because I learn so much from it and mostly it's very well
> > mannered. People who aren't don't seem to last long!

<snip>


> > I doubt that I'll be able to give the benefit of my
> > knowledge of cow heel stew on f+d though.

And when asked, promptly refused.

> Mary, any chance of getting the recipe for cow heal stew.

Hi Robert,

Although I have *never* had cow heel stew myself - never even seen a
cow heel - I have come across this in a book of English food first
published in 1954. There are a couple of cow heel recipes and as I
read in other posts you are a butcher in Canada who also slaughters
and prepares cattle, I'll not question where you might get your cow
heels from <g>.

"COW HEEL, STEWED.
Cow heel can be done with brown gravy, carrots, turnips etc., or fried
or made into a rich stew; but in the north cow-heel is considered
suitable invalid diet, and so we give this simple recipe.
Scald, clean and split the heel, put it into a deep iron stew-pan with
a large, mild onion, a bunch of herbs including a bay leaf, and a
small spoonful of vinegar; bring to nearly boiling point, and then
draw back and let it simmer gently for 4 hours. Empty the stew-pan
into a basin, wipe the pan, and set it back on the heat with a
tablespoon of butter in it; when melted add a generous dust of white
pepper, salt, and 2 tablespoons of fine flour, cook completely, and
then blend in the gravy strained from the cow-heel; leave all to cook
thoroughly while you bone the heel (the bones should slide out quite
easily), cut the meat up into neat pieces, slice the cooked onion and,
if liked, add a little fresh, chopped parsley, put meat, onion and
gravy all together, inside a wall of hot, mashed potatoes, and serve
with mustard.
If people like tripe and onions, they are likely to enjoy cow-heel.

COW-HEEL BRAWN
Cow-heel is more strongly gelatinous than the calves' feet which are
used to make jelly. It is a favourite stand-by in the cattle market
towns of the north, and jellied cow-heel used to be served at the
Wakes.
Wash the cow-heel (previously cloven through by the butcher) and stew
very slowly overnight with an onion. Take out any bones and chop the
meat finely. Add a large spoonful of chopped, cooked bacon and white
pepper and salt. Pack it into a pudding basin, whne it should set to a
clear brawn. Serve cut in thin slices with mustard mixed to a thin
cream with milk, and eat with bread and butter and mixed pickles."

That is exactly as the recipes are printed in the book and may perhaps
give you some ideas to create your own stew. Hope this helps.
--
Wim Jay


Robert Goodrick

unread,
Nov 13, 2000, 2:32:28 AM11/13/00
to

Mary Fisher wrote:
>
> Robert Goodrick <rgoo...@home.com> wrote in message
> news:3A0E4C30...@home.com...
> >
> >
> > Mary Fisher wrote:
>

> <snip>


>
> > > I doubt that I'll be able to give the benefit of my
> > > knowledge of cow heel stew on f+d though. > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >

> > Mary, any chance of getting the recipe for cow heal stew.
>

> The recipe isn't a problem. Getting cow heel is very difficult
> post BSE and in affluent times. I don't suppose Harry Firth is
> still around even if you're in the same village - even if the
> village hasn't been swallowed up by a town or city ...
>

> If you find some, ask me again!
>

Mary, I have no problem getting hold of the cows heals, I can order them
from the slaughterhouse any time I need (we don't have the problem as
yet of BSE although with reading about France and Belgium one wonders
when it will reach this side of the pond, Canada). No Harry Firth is no
longer around, and the village when I was home seven weeks ago is now a
small town and now part of Blackpool.


> Come on! Dumplings are no problem.

Problem out here being the flour, it don't work the same way it dose at
home (UK) always wondered why my Yorkshires turned out like hockey
pucks. Now no problem now as we get imports of UK groceries in every
three weeks into the shop (www.geocities.com/bbsvan)


>
> > I would ask my mum, the only problem is that she died in 86.
> Things I
> > crave that my mum and dad used to make, cheese and onion pie
> and dads
> > bread pudding was to die for.
>

> The juxtaposition of these two statements ... ! Sorry, can't
> resist wondering if it was a surfeit of bread pudding which
> affected your Mum!

No sorry, due to the fact that on her last trip out here for Expo 86 she
got jaundice which manifested on the flight home, dad being Asst.
Director of Transport for Lancashire County got here into the hospital
ASAP, they did the Op. but found stomach cancer and she only lasted six
months.

No offence taken :-)

Robert in Vancouver Canada.


> HTH
>
> Mary
>
> >
> > TIA Robert.

Robert Goodrick

unread,
Nov 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/13/00
to

<snip>


>
> That is exactly as the recipes are printed in the book and may perhaps
> give you some ideas to create your own stew. Hope this helps.
> --
> Wim Jay


Thank Win,

As you say I am a Butcher in Canada, learnt my trade in Blackpool's
Abingdon street market (I also hold Public Health & Meat Inspection)
before going into Merchant Navy (Cruse Liners out of Southampton)
meeting my Wife in Belboa an moving out to Vancouver Canada where I have
been since 1971. I have owned my own shop since 1987
(www.geocities.com/bbsvan) and the more that we do on the UK style the
more that my customers like it, as we have a lot of Ex UK people out
this way.

Of all the NG on food this is the only one tagged and read every night
when I get home from work. I find it interesting and informative in most
cases, it also reminds me of things that I miss (my father's bread
pudding, he was from Notting hill gate London and mums cheese and onion
pie, mum was borne in Blackpool but her parents was from Yorkshire)
which is why I will probably ask what seem to be some of the dumbest
questions. In Scouting we teach that the only dumb question is the one
NOT asked.

I am as old as Mike Reid, which I would imagine put in the same range as
Mary?? (Mother always told me you NEVER ask a Lady her age) With both my
parents dead, and still having two sisters at home (UK) I try and make
the trip back about every three years to see every one and do some R&D
for the shop. Any one knowing the process for making York Ham and
Wiltshire Ham I would be most grateful.

Thanks again Win

Robert.

Mary Fisher

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Nov 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/13/00
to

Wim Jay <Wim...@excite.co.uk> wrote in message
news:hjGP5.14939$T7.15...@nnrp3.clara.net...

The book referred to is Food in England by Dorothy Hartley

Mary Fisher
>
>
>
>
>


Mary Fisher

unread,
Nov 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/13/00
to

> In Scouting we teach that the only dumb question is the one
> NOT asked.

Yes.


>
> I am as old as Mike Reid, which I would imagine put in the same
range as
> Mary??

No idea of Mike's age. I'm pre-war.

I try and make
> the trip back about every three years to see every one and do
some R&D
> for the shop.

Let us know when the next trip is. If you come to the north Leeds
isn't far away ...

Any one knowing the process for making York Ham and
> Wiltshire Ham I would be most grateful.

Dorothy Hartley talks about York hams being smoked with shavings
from York Minster. That's phooey and the best smoking is done
with fruit wood anyway. Oak smoking gives a coarse flavour, I
think. I'll dig something out and let you know.

Mary

Mary Fisher

unread,
Nov 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/13/00
to

Robert Goodrick <rgoo...@home.com> wrote in message
news:3A0F98D0...@home.com...

>
> Mary, I have no problem getting hold of the cows heals, I can
order them
> from the slaughterhouse any time I need (we don't have the
problem as
> yet of BSE although with reading about France and Belgium one
wonders
> when it will reach this side of the pond, Canada). No Harry
Firth is no
> longer around, and the village when I was home seven weeks ago
is now a
> small town and now part of Blackpool.

Make cow heel stew as you'd make any meat stew, I don't know how
you're mum made it but I bet it wasn't from a particular recipe.
Such luxuries weren't around in the war, Mr Woolton, as far as I
know, never mentioned cow heel. It would probably have been
thought to be food for VERY poor people, unlike the more genteel
carrot pie. You won't need much, if any, thickening, the jelly
from the heels makes the stew very thick. I remember that when it
went cold it would bounce.


>
>
> > Come on! Dumplings are no problem.
>
> Problem out here being the flour, it don't work the same way it
dose at
> home (UK) always wondered why my Yorkshires turned out like
hockey
> pucks. Now no problem now as we get imports of UK groceries in
every
> three weeks into the shop (www.geocities.com/bbsvan)

You have wonderful strong flour ... useless for batters!


>
>
> >
> > > I would ask my mum, the only problem is that she died in
86.
> > Things I
> > > crave that my mum and dad used to make, cheese and onion
pie
> > and dads
> > > bread pudding was to die for.
> >
> > The juxtaposition of these two statements ... ! Sorry, can't
> > resist wondering if it was a surfeit of bread pudding which
> > affected your Mum!
>
> No sorry, due to the fact that on her last trip out here for
Expo 86 she
> got jaundice which manifested on the flight home, dad being
Asst.
> Director of Transport for Lancashire County got here into the
hospital
> ASAP, they did the Op. but found stomach cancer and she only
lasted six
> months.
>
> No offence taken :-)

None intended. It was what you said :-)

Mary


>
> Robert in Vancouver Canada.

Mary Fisher

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Nov 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/13/00
to

<xenop...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:smhv0tgkusf0e7h4d...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 12 Nov 2000 22:39:30 -0000, "Mary Fisher"

> <ma...@38smv.freeserve.co.uk>, absently arranged the Scrabble
tiles to
> spell out -
> ><xenop...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:423u0tc3cc4r9vt5a...@4ax.com...
>
> >> Atora make a vegetable suet, which is very good. I always
use
> >>it in my steak & kidney pud, and in bacon pudden, spotted
dick, jam
> >>roly poly, etc.
> >
> >Yeah, I knew someone would say that. To me it has no
character,
> >compared with beef suet. It has no health virtues either,
being
> >hydrogenated something or other, probably palm oil. I've used
it
> >but wouldn't buy it again.
> >
> >What's bacon pudden?
>
> It's like a jam roly poly, only with a filling of mushrooms,
onions,
> sage leaves and smoked bacon.

... drool ... :-)

Mary
>


swroot

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Nov 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/13/00
to
Robert Goodrick <rgoo...@home.com> wrote:

[-]

> I am as old as Mike Reid, which I would imagine put in the same range as

> Mary?? (Mother always told me you NEVER ask a Lady her age) With both my

> parents dead, and still having two sisters at home (UK) I try and make


> the trip back about every three years to see every one and do some R&D

> for the shop. Any one knowing the process for making York Ham and


> Wiltshire Ham I would be most grateful.

There are recipes for York ham[1] and many other delicious things in
Jane Grigson's 'Charcuterie and French Pork Cookery'. I don't know if
the Penguin paperback I've got is still in print; if not, try
www.abebooks.com. I highly recommend this book :-)

The same is true of the 'Book of Sausages' by Antony and Araminta
Hippisley Coxe (Gollancz paperback). An interesting and useful book for
someone with access to butcher's facilities.


[1]
I haven't tried this:
Leg of pork at least 5lb, not boned.
1lb white sea salt
7 oz. granulated sugar
2 oz. saltpetre
English brine

English brine: 5 pints soft/rain water; 3/4lb sea salt; 3/4lb granulated
or brown sugar; 2 oz. saltpetre. Put into a large pan, bring to boil
very slowly, stirring occasionally.

Tie the following in clean muslin/cotton: 1 level tsp juniper berries, a
small piece of nutmeg, 1 bay leaf, 3 sprigs thyme, 1 level tsp
peppercorns, 4 cloves.

When brine is boiling, skim off the froth and remove from heat. Put in
the bag of spices. Leave brine to cool _completely_, strain and put in
_scrupulously_ clean brine crock.

Put meat in crock, put clean board on meat and weight down with
something clean to keep meat below brine surface.

--------------------------------------------------
Mix salt, sugar and saltpetre together and rub it thoroughly into the
leg, paying special attention to working it down along the bone as far
as possible. Leave in the salt overnight, then rub in again. Let stand a
total of 24 hours, then scrape off surplus salt and pickle in English
brine for a fortnight. Remove from brine, squeeze out as much moisture
as possible with a clean board (squash it!), and hang to dry in a
well-ventilated place at 50°-70°F for several days.

Grigson gives much more detail, and describes how to refresh the brine
for further use.

swroot

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Nov 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/13/00
to
Robert Goodrick <rgoo...@home.com> wrote:


> Problem out here being the flour, it don't work the same way it dose at
> home (UK) always wondered why my Yorkshires turned out like hockey
> pucks. Now no problem now as we get imports of UK groceries in every
> three weeks into the shop (www.geocities.com/bbsvan)

er. You're not my grandmother, so it may be safe to suggest...

Canadian flour has much higher gluten content than UK plain flour. Even
if using 'all-purpose', you'd get a softer mix if you added some cake
flour. Having said that, the scones and yorkshire puddings I made in
Canada with Canadian flour (Robin Hood All-Purpose, as I recall) were
not remarkably different from those I make here.

You are remembering that it's not self-raising, aren't you? :-)

Matthew Malthouse

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Nov 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/13/00
to
In article <1ek1b3a.1lp35b01k408ieN%swr...@farm-direct.co.uk>,
swr...@farm-direct.co.uk (swroot) wrote:

} There are recipes for York ham[1] and many other delicious things in
} Jane Grigson's 'Charcuterie and French Pork Cookery'. I don't know if
} the Penguin paperback I've got is still in print; if not, try
} www.abebooks.com. I highly recommend this book :-)

I think Jane Grigson's books have recently been reissued, at least looked
like a full shelf last time I was in Divertimenti.

Now Jane and baked beans... Iain Bowen might remember that story. ;-)

Matthew

--
When rich villains have need of poor ones,
poor ones may make what price they will
- Much Ado About Nothing, act 3, sc. 3.


The Reids

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Nov 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/14/00
to
Following up to Robert & Mary :

>I am as old as Mike Reid, which I would imagine put in the same range as
>Mary??

>>No idea of Mike's age. I'm pre-war.

I was built the year they nationalised the railways, and they
introduced the nation health service about a month after I was born
:-(
I do remember that free[?] concentrated orange juice
--
Regards
Mike Reid
Spanish regional cooking at
"http://www.fell-walker.co.uk/espania.htm"

Wim Jay

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Nov 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/14/00
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"The Reids" <gilla...@mcmail.com> wrote in message
news:hkd01tcne3qu43igv...@4ax.com...

>
> I was built the year they nationalised the railways, and they
> introduced the nation health service about a month after I was born
> :-(
> I do remember that free[?] concentrated orange juice

Were you given your spoonful of cod liver oil first and then the
orange juice to take the taste away?
--
Wim Jay

Robert Goodrick

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Nov 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/14/00
to

The Reids wrote:
>
> Following up to Robert & Mary :
>
> >I am as old as Mike Reid, which I would imagine put in the same range as
> >Mary??
> >>No idea of Mike's age. I'm pre-war.
>

> I was built the year they nationalised the railways, and they
> introduced the nation health service about a month after I was born
> :-(
> I do remember that free[?] concentrated orange juice

> --

Now I do remember that -- used to drink it on our way home from the
clinic without Mum knowing which one of ue was doing it :-)


Robert.

Robert Goodrick

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Nov 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/14/00
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Wim Jay wrote:
>
> "The Reids" <gilla...@mcmail.com> wrote in message
> news:hkd01tcne3qu43igv...@4ax.com...
> >

> > I was built the year they nationalised the railways, and they
> > introduced the nation health service about a month after I was born
> > :-(
> > I do remember that free[?] concentrated orange juice
>

> Were you given your spoonful of cod liver oil first and then the
> orange juice to take the taste away?
> --

Used to give it my older sister, she seemed to like that sought of
stuff. Strange! even when I was just home she was still the same, a
glass (small) every morning.

Robert.

> Wim Jay

Wim Jay

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Nov 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/14/00
to

"Robert Goodrick" <rgoo...@home.com> wrote in message
news:3A0FAEC3...@home.com...

> As you say I am a Butcher in Canada, learnt my trade in Blackpool's
> Abingdon street market (I also hold Public Health & Meat Inspection)
> before going into Merchant Navy (Cruse Liners out of Southampton)
> meeting my Wife in Belboa an moving out to Vancouver Canada where I
have
> been since 1971. I have owned my own shop since 1987
> (www.geocities.com/bbsvan) and the more that we do on the UK style
the
> more that my customers like it, as we have a lot of Ex UK people out
> this way.
>

*Very* extensive range of sausages on your site - a banger lover's
heaven. One thing I noticed, at the top you say "Less than 5 per cent
Fat Content". This surprises me as I thought all the best sausages
contained more fat than that. I have never made sausages but have seen
recipes and also requests from home sausage makers on NG's asking
where they could get pork bellies and pork fat in fairly large
quantities. There is also the old adage of "fat equals flavour." Is
every sausage on your list less than 5 p.c. ?
--
Wim Jay

The Reids

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Nov 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/14/00
to
Following up to Wim Jay :

>Were you given your spoonful of cod liver oil first and then the
>orange juice to take the taste away?

cant remember the order, but do remember the oil. Also half pint of
nearly seperated warm milk at morning break in school. ummmm
--
Mike Reid
If the metric system is so clever
why cant I get a box of 5 eggs?
My favourite cookery books at "http://users.outdoor-pursuits.com/fellwalker/ebooks2.htm"

Jane Willis

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Nov 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/14/00
to

The Reids wrote:

> cant remember the order, but do remember the oil. Also half pint of
> nearly seperated warm milk at morning break in school. ummmm
> --

Best, of course, when it had been standing outside for several hours on
an icy morning, so the ice had bulged up and pushed the top off, then
the whole crate had been pushed under the radiator to thaw and the
melting ice ran down the outside of the bottle. And unfortunately I was
always one of the lucky souls to get full marks in sums, which meant a
reward of a second bottle at afternoon playtime by which time the milk
was really rank. Serves me right for being a swot I suppose (had to say
that before *somebody* else did)
--
Jane Willis

Matthew Malthouse

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Nov 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/14/00
to
In article <Xj8Q5.11391$8F2.1...@nnrp4.clara.net>,
"Wim Jay" <Wim...@excite.co.uk> wrote:

} *Very* extensive range of sausages on your site - a banger lover's
} heaven. One thing I noticed, at the top you say "Less than 5 per cent
} Fat Content". This surprises me as I thought all the best sausages
} contained more fat than that. I have never made sausages but have seen
} recipes and also requests from home sausage makers on NG's asking
} where they could get pork bellies and pork fat in fairly large
} quantities. There is also the old adage of "fat equals flavour." Is
} every sausage on your list less than 5 p.c. ?

A propos nothing except good saussage. I once walked into the local shop
in a tiny village in the pyrenees. The proprietoress, the redoubtable Mme
Doutre was in the act of chopping a prime whole ham. This, it was
explained when we enquired, was for her saussice.

Mme Doutre's saussice was exceedingly good.

The Reids

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Nov 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/14/00
to
Following up to Matthew Malthouse :

>A propos nothing except good saussage. I once walked into the local shop
>in a tiny village in the pyrenees. The proprietoress, the redoubtable Mme
>Doutre was in the act of chopping a prime whole ham. This, it was
>explained when we enquired, was for her saussice.

Sounds good. I get my sausages not from a "local shop" but from a
farmer who makes his own. I ring him when i'm going to Lake District
and he makes us up a "special" load of venison Cumberland style
sausages. Lovely !
--

Robert Goodrick

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Nov 15, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/15/00
to

Wim Jay wrote:
>
> "Robert Goodrick" <rgoo...@home.com> wrote in message

> news:3A0FAEC3...@home.com...
> > As you say I am a Butcher in Canada, learnt my trade in Blackpool's
> > Abingdon street market (I also hold Public Health & Meat Inspection)
> > before going into Merchant Navy (Cruse Liners out of Southampton)
> > meeting my Wife in Belboa an moving out to Vancouver Canada where I
> have
> > been since 1971. I have owned my own shop since 1987
> > (www.geocities.com/bbsvan) and the more that we do on the UK style
> the
> > more that my customers like it, as we have a lot of Ex UK people out
> > this way.
> >
>

> *Very* extensive range of sausages on your site - a banger lover's
> heaven. One thing I noticed, at the top you say "Less than 5 per cent
> Fat Content". This surprises me as I thought all the best sausages
> contained more fat than that. I have never made sausages but have seen
> recipes and also requests from home sausage makers on NG's asking
> where they could get pork bellies and pork fat in fairly large
> quantities. There is also the old adage of "fat equals flavour." Is
> every sausage on your list less than 5 p.c. ?

> --
> Wim Jay

As you say, a *Very* extensive range of sausage --- made over 35,000
lbs. last year, not bad for two English fellows who realy do not no what
we are doing :-)

Every sausage that we make comes in at about 5% fat content, it's due to
the fact that our pork supplyer has that type of pork (Lean). We only
deal with a small pork suppler out in the valley (for fresh top quality
product) rather than the big guys, where we have no idea where the meat
is comming from or how old it is befoe we get it.

I agree with you on the old adage "fat equals flavour." We was always
tought to use shoulder meat as this has better flavour than hind quater
meat, plus also being a cheaper cut. If one looks at a recipe for a
Lincolnshie pork sausage with a meat content of 73% you can see that it
dose not work;

%
Pork trimings (70:30 volume) 50.0
Belly pork (50:50 volume) 25.0
Rusk 10.0
Seasoning 2.5
Ice/water 12.5

Rusk will absorb up to 2 1/2 times it's own weight, it goes back to the
war times when there was a shortage of meat (people had to make do with
what thay had) and most of the meat around was a lot fattier than it is
now. Ron Fielding who I used to work for in the market told of how that
thay would recive a frount quarter of beef (there meat ration for the
week), hang it up in the cooler with drip pans underneath to catch the
blood. Upon cutting the meat down and selling during the week, come the
weekend all that was left was the exsess fat and a pan of blood, to get
the money out of what was left he used to mince the fat and incorporate
the blood and sell as mince (that remindes me of that other string).

Pork was done the same way, thay had to uterlise the trimming and fat
some way and using it in sausage and was a good way of making a few more
shillings.

We our selfs make a quality product and giving our customers value for
there money

Lincolnshire sausage:
%
Pork shoulder (90:10 volume) 93.5
Rusk 3.0
Seasonig (Imported from the UK) 2.5
Water 1.0

There are people back home doing the same as I am doing out here, thay
are few and far between so one has to realy keep on the look out for
them, when you find them -- spread the word.


Robert.

Wim Jay

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Nov 15, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/15/00
to

"Robert Goodrick" <rgoo...@home.com> wrote in message
news:3A124954...@home.com...

>
> As you say, a *Very* extensive range of sausage --- made over 35,000
> lbs. last year, not bad for two English fellows who realy do not no
what
> we are doing :-)

Crikey! Over 15 tons of sausage.....and I *love* sausages ....mmmmm
<g>

> Rusk will absorb up to 2 1/2 times it's own weight, it goes back to
the

> war times when there was a shortage of meat (people had to make do
with


> what thay had) and most of the meat around was a lot fattier than it
is
> now.

Rusks are an important part of some recipes especially in the tastes
of the consumers. When I worked offshore we had a Scottish baker who
now and again produced Scotch Pies, a mix of
beef/lamb/onions/seasonings cooked in a hot-water crust pie shell.
Whilst they went down like the proverbial hot cakes, there was always
a comment from the pie connoisseurs that whilst the pies were very
good, there was something missing. The baker had asked me originally
to obtain a supply of pie rusk for his recipe but I had told him to
use all meat fillings. Eventually he persuaded me to order some rusks
and he used them in the next batch. The accolades were overwhelming
and these pies "outsold" every other item on a very extensive menu
which always included superior sirloin steaks cooked to order. I say
"outsold" but of course the food was free. Very good pies in my
opinion when from a menu of about six dishes always including a roast
of the day, grills, a fish dish, saute dishes, casseroles, chilli
etc., the punters chose pies! The pies always went first.

> Ron Fielding who I used to work for in the market told of how that
> thay would recive a frount quarter of beef (there meat ration for
the
> week), hang it up in the cooler with drip pans underneath to catch
the
> blood. Upon cutting the meat down and selling during the week, come
the
> weekend all that was left was the exsess fat and a pan of blood, to
get
> the money out of what was left he used to mince the fat and
incorporate
> the blood and sell as mince (that remindes me of that other string).
> Pork was done the same way, thay had to uterlise the trimming and
fat
> some way and using it in sausage and was a good way of making a few
more
> shillings.

I rather like these old stories. Do keep them up.
--
Wim Jay

Wim Jay

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Nov 15, 2000, 9:44:58 PM11/15/00
to

"Mary Fisher" <ma...@38smv.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8uollr$f34$3...@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...

> Dorothy Hartley talks about York hams being smoked with shavings
> from York Minster.

Where does she talk of that? I note in "FOOD IN ENGLAND" she
writes.....
QUOTE..."The original York hams were reputed to take flavour from the
oak sawdust from the building of York Minster." ...UNQUOTE

> That's phooey

If she had said York hams ARE smoked with shavings of York Minster I
too would say "that's phooey". But she said no such thing.

reputed : commonly put forth or accepted as true on inconclusive
grounds.

--
Wim Jay

Mary Fisher

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Nov 18, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/18/00
to

<xenop...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:nun01t8i8l6kdmj10...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 13 Nov 2000 17:10:39 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
> <ma...@38smv.freeserve.co.uk>, wrote

> ><xenop...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:smhv0tgkusf0e7h4d...@4ax.com...
> >> On Sun, 12 Nov 2000 22:39:30 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
> >> <ma...@38smv.freeserve.co.uk>, absently arranged the
Scrabble
>
> >> >What's bacon pudden?
> >>
> >> It's like a jam roly poly, only with a filling of mushrooms,
> >onions, sage leaves and smoked bacon.
> >
> >... drool ... :-)
>
> And when you cut it open.........mmmmmmmm, the aroma......
>
> Oh bother. I suppose I shall have to cook that tomorrow, now.

I was going to invite myself but I see I'm too late. Damn. Had to
go to Wales...

Mary
>


Mary Fisher

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Nov 18, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/18/00