Extending cat5e
d...@gglz.com
conversion project - all within the studwork.
Because of a late-in-the-day change in room layouts, the place where
I'm drawing all the cables together has moved.
Being a sensible chap, I left plenty of spare length on the cables -
except where I didn't.
So 4 cables need to be extended, and the joint location will become
permanently closed within the cavity.
How to join these cables?
RJ45's and back-to-back connector?
Solder?
Something else?
Andy Burns
> I've been putting cat5e cables throughout my place 4 cables need to
> be extended, and the joint location will become permanently closed
> within the cavity. How to join these cables?
A couple of krone strips (the normal 237A ones are 10 pair, you have 16
pairs, so 2 cables per strip)
Bob Eager
These: http://goo.gl/Ih4Xl
--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor
Ian Jackson
Burns <usenet....@adslpipe.co.uk> writes
together. This can be from the most obvious bodge to a sophisticated
purpose-made connection device.
As it's a permanent connection, and using what I had immediately
available, I would solder and heatshrink each joint in turn, then either
heatshrink the lot, or wrap it tightly in self-amalgamating tape.
--
Ian
Paul - xxx
Solder and shrink wrap the wires, then either shrink wrap or self
amalgamating tape over the whole lot before sealing up.
Then make a good note of where the joints are in the wall for future
reference .. :)
--
Paul - xxx
Tabby
I'd solder them, and do my best to maintain the cable twists.
NT
Bob Eager
The jointing boxes I mentioned do work well, and just need a Krone tool
to use them. I have two or three embedded in cavities around the house!
Tim Watts
And keep the twists in each "pair" going as close as reasonably practical to
the joints. Long (cm's) of untwisted wires in a pair seriously affects
signal propogation[1] - more so at gigabit speeds.
[1]Less immune to external interferance, and less obviously, makes the joint
look reflective to the signal (crude analogy - sun on your monitor makes it
hard to read).
The pairs can be splayed out from one another though.
Cheers
Tim
--
Tim Watts
geoff
<notchec...@hotmail.com> writes
>d...@gglz.com wrote:
>
>> I've been putting cat5e cables throughout my place as part of the
>> conversion project - all within the studwork.
>>
>> Because of a late-in-the-day change in room layouts, the place where
>> I'm drawing all the cables together has moved.
>>
>> Being a sensible chap, I left plenty of spare length on the cables -
>> except where I didn't.
>>
>> So 4 cables need to be extended, and the joint location will become
>> permanently closed within the cavity.
>>
>> How to join these cables?
>>
>> RJ45's and back-to-back connector?
>>
>> Solder?
>>
>> Something else?
>
>Solder and shrink wrap the wires, then either shrink wrap or self
>amalgamating tape over the whole lot before sealing up.
>
If you it that way, remember to stagger the joints
--
geoff
Clueless
Paul - xxx
Can't give all the details away in one post ... spoils the fun of being
able to say, in a month or two, "well, what you should have done AS
WELL ... didn't you know that?"
--
Paul - xxx
Howard Neil
I'm waiting to see how the angle grinder will be suggested.;-)
--
Howard Neil
Tabby
> On Sun, 15 May 2011 02:54:16 -0700, Tabby wrote:
> > On May 15, 7:41 am, "d...@gglz.com" <d...@gglz.com> wrote:
> >> I've been putting cat5e cables throughout my place as part of the
> >> conversion project - all within the studwork.
>
> >> Because of a late-in-the-day change in room layouts, the place where
> >> I'm drawing all the cables together has moved.
>
> >> Being a sensible chap, I left plenty of spare length on the cables -
> >> except where I didn't.
>
> >> So 4 cables need to be extended, and the joint location will become
> >> permanently closed within the cavity.
>
> >> How to join these cables?
>
> >> RJ45's and back-to-back connector?
>
> >> Solder?
>
> >> Something else?
>
> > I'd solder them, and do my best to maintain the cable twists.
>
> The jointing boxes I mentioned do work well, and just need a Krone tool
> to use them. I have two or three embedded in cavities around the house!
I think any joining method could be used. The plusses of soldering
that led me to recommend it are:
- more robust than IDC
- more corrosion proof than IDC
- no need to buy anything or wait for it to arrive
- the twist of the cables can be maintained fairly much, maximising
their speed and data integrity
The main downsides of soldering are:
- compared to other mthods, its slower to do the joint.
- soldering takes skill
NT
Frank Erskine
>The jointing boxes I mentioned do work well, and just need a Krone tool
>to use them. I have two or three embedded in cavities around the house!
That seems a strange place to leave Krone tools... :-)
--
Frank Erskine
Mike Tomlinson
<ianREMOVET...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk> escribió:
>As it's a permanent connection, and using what I had immediately
>available, I would solder and heatshrink each joint in turn, then either
>heatshrink the lot, or wrap it tightly in self-amalgamating tape.
Not advisable IMO. The twists in the wire pairs in Cat5 cabling are
what makes it resistant to external interference, and it's important to
maintain the twist throughout the run, which separating, stripping,
soldering and taping won't do.
I think using RJ45 plugs and back-to-back adapters is the best solution.
It's faster, easier, neater, and maintains the twists in the pairs.
--
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
John Rumm
> On Sun, 15 May 2011 02:54:16 -0700, Tabby wrote:
>
>> On May 15, 7:41 am, "d...@gglz.com"<d...@gglz.com> wrote:
>>> I've been putting cat5e cables throughout my place as part of the
>>> conversion project - all within the studwork.
>>>
>>> Because of a late-in-the-day change in room layouts, the place where
>>> I'm drawing all the cables together has moved.
>>>
>>> Being a sensible chap, I left plenty of spare length on the cables -
>>> except where I didn't.
>>>
>>> So 4 cables need to be extended, and the joint location will become
>>> permanently closed within the cavity.
>>>
>>> How to join these cables?
>>>
>>> RJ45's and back-to-back connector?
>>>
>>> Solder?
>>>
>>> Something else?
>>
>> I'd solder them, and do my best to maintain the cable twists.
>
> The jointing boxes I mentioned do work well, and just need a Krone tool
> to use them. I have two or three embedded in cavities around the house!
Yup, second that. I had to use a couple on my structured wiring system
where socket positions needed to move from the designed location or
where there was some unforeseen obstruction in the building fabric that
took up more cable length to get past than anticipated.
Since you will already have the punch down tool for the patch panel etc,
the mini krone strips in a box are an obvious solution.
--
Cheers,
John.
/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/
John Rumm
> On May 15, 11:05 am, Bob Eager<rd...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>> On Sun, 15 May 2011 02:54:16 -0700, Tabby wrote:
>>> On May 15, 7:41 am, "d...@gglz.com"<d...@gglz.com> wrote:
>>>> I've been putting cat5e cables throughout my place as part of the
>>>> conversion project - all within the studwork.
>>
>>>> Because of a late-in-the-day change in room layouts, the place where
>>>> I'm drawing all the cables together has moved.
>>
>>>> Being a sensible chap, I left plenty of spare length on the cables -
>>>> except where I didn't.
>>
>>>> So 4 cables need to be extended, and the joint location will become
>>>> permanently closed within the cavity.
>>
>>>> How to join these cables?
>>
>>>> RJ45's and back-to-back connector?
>>
>>>> Solder?
>>
>>>> Something else?
>>
>>> I'd solder them, and do my best to maintain the cable twists.
>>
>> The jointing boxes I mentioned do work well, and just need a Krone tool
>> to use them. I have two or three embedded in cavities around the house!
>
> I think any joining method could be used. The plusses of soldering
> that led me to recommend it are:
> - more robust than IDC
> - more corrosion proof than IDC
Its partly a moot point since any modern network will be depending on
IDC at every other point of connection - so one more set out of hundreds
or thousands is neither here nor there... (the exception being if the
connection needs to be in a "hostile" environment).
> - no need to buy anything or wait for it to arrive
Always have a few joiners sat in my networking tool box ;-)
> - the twist of the cables can be maintained fairly much, maximising
> their speed and data integrity
You don't need to untiwst particularly for a krone punch-down. (all my
jointed cables seem to run gigabit speeds without any difficulty)
> The main downsides of soldering are:
> - compared to other mthods, its slower to do the joint.
> - soldering takes skill
You will probably need to untwist more pairs to get the individual
heatshrink on each wire. Nine lots of heatshrink in all is quite a faff.
Ian Jackson
<mi...@jasper.org.uk> writes
soldered connections. If the plug/socket contacts ever become a bit
dodgy, you're stuffed.
As for the twisting to maintain the balance of each pair of wires, I
really doubt whether an inch or two where the twisting is not perfectly
maintained is really going to make any significant difference.
As for being 'faster', the OP isn't joining CAT5 for a living. He has
only four cables to do.
As for being 'easier', soldering, heatshrinking and taping isn't hard to
do.
As for being 'neater', the joint is inside the cavity. No one will see
it.
Otherwise, I agree completely with you.
--
Ian
dennis@home
"John Rumm" <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote in message
news:cNCdndJSrK7UkE3Q...@brightview.co.uk...
> On 15/05/2011 16:23, Tabby wrote:
8<
>> I think any joining method could be used. The plusses of soldering
>> that led me to recommend it are:
>> - more robust than IDC
>> - more corrosion proof than IDC
>
> Its partly a moot point since any modern network will be depending on IDC
> at every other point of connection - so one more set out of hundreds or
> thousands is neither here nor there... (the exception being if the
> connection needs to be in a "hostile" environment).
There is a reason why IDC is used so much..
its more reliable and has better corrosion resistance than soldered
connections.
Proper IDC connections are gas tight.
John Rumm
Assuming you have the crimp tool for the RJ45 plugs...
(even then I can punch down 16 wires into a krone block a darn sight
quicker than I can fit two RJ45 plugs reliably!)
John Rumm
Its instrumental in getting to the question about joining cat5 in the
first place ;-)
Bob Eager
Don't laugh, I nearly did that once...!
Nick Leverton
Bob Eager <rd...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>On Sun, 15 May 2011 18:16:08 +0100, Frank Erskine wrote:
>
>> On 15 May 2011 10:05:02 GMT, Bob Eager <rd...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>The jointing boxes I mentioned do work well, and just need a Krone tool
>>>to use them. I have two or three embedded in cavities around the house!
>>
>> That seems a strange place to leave Krone tools... :-)
>
>Don't laugh, I nearly did that once...!
Far, far TMI !
Nick
--
Serendipity: http://www.leverton.org/blosxom (last update 29th March 2010)
"The Internet, a sort of ersatz counterfeit of real life"
-- Janet Street-Porter, BBC2, 19th March 1996
Tabby
If this is buried permanently, the OP will probably want to run this
network cabling for as long as possible. 100M doesnt mind IDC, but
IDCs grossly violate cat6 requirements re twist. Who know what speeds
will be reached on 5e in the years to come, but twist issues are
likely to be significant.
> > - no need to buy anything or wait for it to arrive
>
> Always have a few joiners sat in my networking tool box ;-)
Who knows what the OP stocks. But if he suggested soldering,
presumably he has the kit & skill.
> > - the twist of the cables can be maintained fairly much, maximising
> > their speed and data integrity
cat6 spec IIRC max 6mm untwisted. IDC wont come anywhere close to
that.
> You don't need to untiwst particularly for a krone punch-down. (all my
> jointed cables seem to run gigabit speeds without any difficulty)
Who knows what standard comes next. If I were doing buried joins, I'd
pick a method that maintains the twist fully, its easy enough to do.
> > The main downsides of soldering are:
> > - compared to other mthods, its slower to do the joint.
> > - soldering takes skill
>
> You will probably need to untwist more pairs to get the individual
> heatshrink on each wire. Nine lots of heatshrink in all is quite a faff.
There's no need for heatshrink in this app.
NT
Bill
<frank....@btinternet.com> writes
Yes, but unfortunately seems to be common practice. I have a volt stick
mains detector under my floorboards, somewhere, and spanner in a cavity
wall, using it a weight on a bit of fishing line. A colleague has a 1m
SDS bit inside a 1.2m thick wall, he drilled as far as he could and was
SURE if he hammered the end of the bit it would make it through, it
didn't. So why not a Krone tool?
>
--
Bill
Bob Eager
> In article <93amfr...@mid.individual.net>, Bob Eager
> <rd...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>>On Sun, 15 May 2011 18:16:08 +0100, Frank Erskine wrote:
>>
>>> On 15 May 2011 10:05:02 GMT, Bob Eager <rd...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>The jointing boxes I mentioned do work well, and just need a Krone
>>>>tool to use them. I have two or three embedded in cavities around the
>>>>house!
>>>
>>> That seems a strange place to leave Krone tools... :-)
>>
>>Don't laugh, I nearly did that once...!
>
> Far, far TMI !
LOL! .-)
The cut-off jaws are the worst bit..
John Rumm
Cat5 with standard punchdown terminals is fine for gigabit ethernet.
>>> - the twist of the cables can be maintained fairly much, maximising
>>> their speed and data integrity
>
> cat6 spec IIRC max 6mm untwisted. IDC wont come anywhere close to
> that.
That is actually doable at a krone terminal.
Put it this way, if it works on the patch panel, then it will work at
the coupler since the spacing of the terminals is the same.
You don't require cat6 unless attempting to do 1000TX (i.e. gig ethernet
using only two pairs of wire in total - rarely seen in the wild).
Standard 1000T runs the same signalling (i.e. baud) rate over the wire
as 100Mb ethernet - just it uses two pairs in each direction, and ups
the modulation level to squeeze more bits in per symbol.
>> You don't need to untiwst particularly for a krone punch-down. (all my
>> jointed cables seem to run gigabit speeds without any difficulty)
>
> Who knows what standard comes next. If I were doing buried joins, I'd
> pick a method that maintains the twist fully, its easy enough to do.
10Gb ethernet is next - although that's usually used for backbone apps
over fibre at the moment. Whether its a requirement in a home is
debatable with the currently foreseeable uses.
>>> The main downsides of soldering are:
>>> - compared to other mthods, its slower to do the joint.
>>> - soldering takes skill
>>
>> You will probably need to untwist more pairs to get the individual
>> heatshrink on each wire. Nine lots of heatshrink in all is quite a faff.
>
> There's no need for heatshrink in this app.
If you stagger the joins enough...
John Rumm
I have a 40mm wide SDS chisel under our downstairs bathroom somewhere. I
was just finishing off a cutout for an air brick, when the bit slipped
off the brick, the drill fell toward the wall, and was arrested by the
corner just catching the nose cone on the drill. Neatly freeing it from
the chuck, while there was just enough hammer energy left to neatly spit
out the bit into the hole!
Nick Leverton
Bob Eager <rd...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>On Sun, 15 May 2011 19:22:58 +0000, Nick Leverton wrote:
>
>> In article <93amfr...@mid.individual.net>, Bob Eager
>> <rd...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>>>On Sun, 15 May 2011 18:16:08 +0100, Frank Erskine wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 15 May 2011 10:05:02 GMT, Bob Eager <rd...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>The jointing boxes I mentioned do work well, and just need a Krone
>>>>>tool to use them. I have two or three embedded in cavities around the
>>>>>house!
>>>>
>>>> That seems a strange place to leave Krone tools... :-)
>>>
>>>Don't laugh, I nearly did that once...!
>>
>> Far, far TMI !
>
>LOL! .-)
>
>The cut-off jaws are the worst bit..
Don't forget a good push-down to finish it off neatly ;-)
Dave Liquorice
> I'm waiting to see how the angle grinder will be suggested.;-)
That's easy to cut a hole in the wall to get at the joints when they
fail.
I'd go for sleeved (not heat shrink) soldered joints with the twist
maintained and each join staggered. Overall wrap of self amalgamating
tape. I would not expect to need my angle grinder...
--
Cheers
Dave.
Tabby
We used to say that > 10M networking isnt needed, and never will be.
> >>> The main downsides of soldering are:
> >>> - compared to other mthods, its slower to do the joint.
> >>> - soldering takes skill
>
> >> You will probably need to untwist more pairs to get the individual
> >> heatshrink on each wire. Nine lots of heatshrink in all is quite a faff.
>
> > There's no need for heatshrink in this app.
>
> If you stagger the joins enough...
yup, or tape them. All the options work really.
NT
Frank Erskine
<allsortsn...@howhill.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 15 May 2011 13:22:37 +0100, Howard Neil wrote:
>
>> I'm waiting to see how the angle grinder will be suggested.;-)
>
>I would not expect to need my angle grinder...
Spoilsport :-)
--
Frank Erskine
Dave Liquorice
>> 10Gb ethernet is next - although that's usually used for backbone
apps
>> over fibre at the moment. Whether its a requirement in a home is
>> debatable with the currently foreseeable uses.
>
> We used to say that > 10M networking isnt needed, and never will be.
Quite. When you start to want to stream several different current and
proper HD video about 100Mbps soon runs out of steam. Blu-ray runs at
40Mbps... planning for 1Gbps base level is sensible these days.
Ultra High Definition Television is on the horizon, 24Gbps, though it
is quite often squeezed down to less than 1Gbps. Admitedly it might
be a while before that is in the domestic market.
--
Cheers
Dave.
Mike Tomlinson
HISja...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk> writes
>As the joint is inside the cavity, I would hesitate about not having
>soldered connections. If the plug/socket contacts ever become a bit
>dodgy
Very unlikely IME.
>As for the twisting to maintain the balance of each pair of wires, I
>really doubt whether an inch or two where the twisting is not perfectly
>maintained is really going to make any significant difference.
Probably not, but why take the risk? It's even more important with
gigabit.
>As for being 'faster', the OP isn't joining CAT5 for a living. He has
>only four cables to do.
So?
>As for being 'easier', soldering, heatshrinking and taping isn't hard to
>do.
It's hard to do neatly. And I think joining cables like this is a
bodge. I wouldn't do it with mains cable unless I absolutely had to,
I'd use the proper joint box and/or connectors for the job.
IMO, joining flexes for things like table lamps by soldering,
heatshrinking and/or taping is unacceptable, so what makes it any more
acceptable for low-voltage cables?
>As for being 'neater', the joint is inside the cavity. No one will see
>it.
Hardly the point. "Pride in workmanship", heard of it?
--
Mike Tomlinson
Mike Tomlinson
Rumm <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> writes
>(even then I can punch down 16 wires into a krone block a darn sight
>quicker than I can fit two RJ45 plugs reliably!)
Having done a few thousand, I can do them reliably, but agreed it does
take practice. Also important to use a good quality crimp tool.
--
Mike Tomlinson
Paul - xxx
> In article <BrslnzA1...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk>, Ian Jackson
> > As for being 'easier', soldering, heatshrinking and taping isn't
> > hard to do.
>
> It's hard to do neatly. And I think joining cables like this is a
> bodge. I wouldn't do it with mains cable unless I absolutely had to,
> I'd use the proper joint box and/or connectors for the job.
I think this is one of those jobs that if you've done it often enough
and can do it reasonably well, then that's the way you'd do it and
would be the way you recommend, whichever way that is. It's possible
that both ways are 'correct' and both ways have + and - points.
Good to have choices .. perhaps!! ;)
--
Paul - xxx
Tim Watts
> On Sun, 15 May 2011 16:39:54 -0700 (PDT), Tabby wrote:
>
>>> 10Gb ethernet is next - although that's usually used for backbone
> apps
>>> over fibre at the moment. Whether its a requirement in a home is
>>> debatable with the currently foreseeable uses.
>>
>> We used to say that > 10M networking isnt needed, and never will be.
>
> Quite. When you start to want to stream several different current and
> proper HD video about 100Mbps soon runs out of steam. Blu-ray runs at
> 40Mbps... planning for 1Gbps base level is sensible these days.
I'm not far off saturating gig. My 3 year consumer grade homebuilt
fileserver can at best, read from its software raided disks at 200MB/sec
sustained (ideal conditions of course) so about 2gig. However the current
NIC can't get to a gig but it's not going to be long before gig seems lame
even for a hobbyist home setup - or a dude with a good media streamer server
and a family with 2 streaming "TVs" and a load of *pads.
I inherited a 100Mbit to the desktop setup at work (outlying building) and,
hell, after gig right to t'Internet for years, that really hurts. Never
mind, it's getting upgraded soon...
> Ultra High Definition Television is on the horizon, 24Gbps, though it
> is quite often squeezed down to less than 1Gbps. Admitedly it might
> be a while before that is in the domestic market.
And 95% of the content will still be bollocks.
As they say, you can't polish a turd; but you can roll it in glitter!
>
--
Tim Watts
John Rumm
> Dave Liquorice wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 15 May 2011 16:39:54 -0700 (PDT), Tabby wrote:
>>
>>>> 10Gb ethernet is next - although that's usually used for backbone
>> apps
>>>> over fibre at the moment. Whether its a requirement in a home is
>>>> debatable with the currently foreseeable uses.
>>>
>>> We used to say that> 10M networking isnt needed, and never will be.
>>
>> Quite. When you start to want to stream several different current and
>> proper HD video about 100Mbps soon runs out of steam. Blu-ray runs at
>> 40Mbps... planning for 1Gbps base level is sensible these days.
I agree. What I was questioning was the logic of running cat6 or 7 etc.
Since 1 gig will go happily over cat5, and most of the standards beyond
that will more likely want fibre of some sort. There might be some value
in pulling a couple of strands of that alongside your cat5 - even if you
leave it unterminated at the moment.
> I'm not far off saturating gig. My 3 year consumer grade homebuilt
> fileserver can at best, read from its software raided disks at 200MB/sec
> sustained (ideal conditions of course) so about 2gig. However the current
> NIC can't get to a gig but it's not going to be long before gig seems lame
> even for a hobbyist home setup - or a dude with a good media streamer server
> and a family with 2 streaming "TVs" and a load of *pads.
>
> I inherited a 100Mbit to the desktop setup at work (outlying building) and,
> hell, after gig right to t'Internet for years, that really hurts. Never
> mind, it's getting upgraded soon...
You only need lob an DVD image from one machine to another to know that
100Mb is past it for home use. However for most home users it would be
unlikely to be the bottleneck in internet access for some years to come.
(I can't even aggregate 4Mb/sec down two ADSL lines here!)
>> Ultra High Definition Television is on the horizon, 24Gbps, though it
>> is quite often squeezed down to less than 1Gbps. Admitedly it might
>> be a while before that is in the domestic market.
Ethernet on TVs is beginning to become common. Many only have 100Mb at
the moment though, which is adequate for today's HD content.
> And 95% of the content will still be bollocks.
Probably more!
> As they say, you can't polish a turd; but you can roll it in glitter!
;-)
John Rumm
I can do them quick, or so they work ;-) (and that's with the right
tool). Probably made a little harder because I only normally need do it
on the "wrong" (i.e. solid core) cable.
dennis@home
"Mike Tomlinson" <mi...@jasper.org.uk> wrote in message
news:mq+BthAh...@jasper.org.uk...
I have seen (and used a few) RJ45 connector that come in two pieces.
You can push the wires in the one bit and trim the ends and then push it
into the main body and crimp it.
I can't remember what make they were.
>
> --
> Mike Tomlinson
Tim Watts
> (I can't even aggregate 4Mb/sec down two ADSL lines here!)
>
What is *rather* interesting, is I've just got one of those "3" MIFI widgets
(PAYG, 1G/month = £10 after initial purchase cost) for use on my otherwise
tedious "3 hours on a train" roundtrip commute.
At *some* points on the line from Robertsbridge to London Charing X I can
pull 4.5Mbit/sec down and 1.5Mbit/sec up. Even the speeds in my village are
respectible (and half the other mobile operators can't even get you a decent
phone signal).
My home ADSL+ does 6.5Mbit/sec down and 0.8Mbit/sec up.
Which could mean ADSL's days are numbered if you have good tower coverage.
--
Tim Watts
Tim Watts
Might be AMP. But I could be wrong. RS sell them because they are favourite
too.
--
Tim Watts
John Rumm
Depends on the usage a bit. 3G etc still gets pricey if you want more
than a few gig / month. Now the kids have discovered iPlayer, and I
shlurp the couple of hours of TV/week that I watch from over the pond,
on top of normal use for all the machines here, its not uncommon to get
through 20 - 30 gig during the day, and as much or more again off peak.
(My co-director just got a note from our ISP to say he can have fibre[1]
now for £16/month, with predicted speeds of 43Mb/sec. Not that I am
envious... honest! ;-)
[1] I presume FTTC rather than FTTH at that speed, but still a step up
on the 13Mb/sec he's getting on ADSL/2+
dennis@home
"Tim Watts" <t...@dionic.net> wrote in message
news:mem7a8-...@squidward.dionic.net...
Unlikely to happen soon..
The ~7.5 M speed they quote is shared by all the users unless they allocate
more channels which costs money.
If you are lucky you can get all the bandwidth to yourself and then its
quick.
If lots of users use it rather than ADSL you will never get decent speeds.
The other thing they can do is make the cells smaller but that also costs
cash so don't write off ADSL yet.
dennis@home
"John Rumm" <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote in message
news:VaqdnaPWTd3Zx0zQ...@brightview.co.uk...
It really depends on what its used for..
A few years ago it took a week to download a video then along came broadband
and it took a day. Quicker, but not enough to make any real difference you
still had to plan days in advance what you wanted to have downloaded.
Now there is fast ADSL and you can download a film in 15 minutes but start
watching it after 30 seconds after selecting it on sky.
Does going from 18M to 50M actually make a difference to such a service?
I don't think 50 or 100M makes any difference, now if Intel get their 10G to
the home going that is a game changer.
Dave Liquorice
> The ~7.5 M speed they quote is shared by all the users unless they
> allocate more channels which costs money. If you are lucky you can get
> all the bandwidth to yourself and then its quick.
Aye, I often attend places with lots (few 10's of thousands) of
people that turn up a few hours after I do. Data rates are acceptable
but fall through the floor when the crowds arrive. And this is at
venues that get very regular crowds and often have multiple cells
attached or very close by.
--
Cheers
Dave.
John Rumm
Well 13 to 43 reduces an hours download to 15 - 20 mins, and since it
costs no more, not much reason not to have it. For me 3.5 to 43 would
quite a significant improvement. (the uplink was also about 4x quicker
which can have more of an impact at times)
> I don't think 50 or 100M makes any difference, now if Intel get their
> 10G to the home going that is a game changer.
Andy Burns
> I don't think 50 or 100M makes any difference, now if Intel get their
> 10G to the home going that is a game changer.
LightPeak/ThunderBolt you mean? That'll be handy for people who live
*inside* phone exchanges ... maximum cable length 3metres
dennis@home
"Andy Burns" <usenet....@adslpipe.co.uk> wrote in message
news:usKdnWtbi8NkGEzQ...@brightview.co.uk...
That's over cheap copper.
Andy Champ
>
>
> A few years ago it took a week to download a video then along came
> broadband and it took a day. Quicker, but not enough to make any real
> difference you still had to plan days in advance what you wanted to have
> downloaded.
>
> Now there is fast ADSL and you can download a film in 15 minutes but
> start watching it after 30 seconds after selecting it on sky.
> Does going from 18M to 50M actually make a difference to such a service?
>
> I don't think 50 or 100M makes any difference, now if Intel get their
> 10G to the home going that is a game changer.
There are an awful lot of people around the country who don't get
anything like 18 megs. I get just over 2, which is barely enough for
streaming video. There's probably more market for 10 megs in more
places than there is for 100megs in a few. (all bits of course)
Andy
Ron Lowe
> IDCs grossly violate cat6 requirements re twist.
Not if you use cat6 IDCs.
Most cat6 networks terminate in a punch-down block near the switches
using IDCs. The wall faceplates are all connected using 110-type IDCs.
My home LAN is entirely wired with IDC connections, using Systimax
faceplates, cable, and punch-down blocks and is fully cat6 compliant.
These do generally have a better cable entry arrangement which maintains
the twists in the pairs right up to the actual IDC blade.
--
Ron
Ron Lowe
> There are an awful lot of people around the country who don't get
> anything like 18 megs. I get just over 2, which is barely enough for
> streaming video. There's probably more market for 10 megs in more places
> than there is for 100megs in a few. (all bits of course)
>
> Andy
Ah, yes, and there's the problem.
The major players ( mainly BT ) will only roll out newer tech like FTTC
to locations where they are hurting due to competiton, ie well-provided
areas. They then complain about low up-take, because the market is
already well-served.
They seem to think they have no incentive to roll FTTC out to where it's
*really needed*, like poorly-served more rural areas, where the up-take
would be much higher!
--
Ron
Dave Liquorice
> They seem to think they have no incentive to roll FTTC out to where it's
> *really needed*, like poorly-served more rural areas, where the up-take
> would be much higher!
But what defines a "cabinet"? I don't think there is one in our
line, 2.5 miles from the exchange. Several joint torpedoes in small
holes in the ground but no above surface green box. One also assumes
that FTTC needs power at the cabinet, power isn't easly available
along the roads where the phone lines are, it's all overhead, in the
fields, at 11kV.
What might be interesting is who buys and starts to use the 800MHz
band that will be auctioned off next year. That is supposed to be for
mobile data connections, now if that can provide 10Mbps (peak/burst)
download at 10 miles from a cell site and support 500 users @ 2Mbps
each concurrently (each cell needing at least 1Gbps back haul) BT
will have a serious threat in rural areas where ADSL runs out of puff
at 3 miles.
--
Cheers
Dave.
www.GymRatZ.co.uk
> These: http://goo.gl/Ih4Xl
That'd be my choice.
--
http://www.GymRatZ.co.uk - Fitness+Gym Equipment.
http://www.bodysolid-gym-equipment.co.uk
http://www.trade-price-supplements.co.uk
http://www.water-rower.co.uk
www.GymRatZ.co.uk
> Solder and shrink wrap the wires, then either shrink wrap or self
> amalgamating tape over the whole lot before sealing up.
>
> Then make a good note of where the joints are in the wall for future
> reference .. :)
:Ź)
I'm not a fan of soldering either.
Just a smidgen too much heat for too long and the insulation may melt
back where you don't notice it. Also... I have found the soldering
solution when applied to fine multi-strand wires makes a very weak spot
at the junction between solder and original wire. Even the slightest
vibrations or cable movement will have this fragile junction fracture
sometime down the line. 8ŹO
Handy usenet thread for future reference though.
:Ź)
www.GymRatZ.co.uk
>Also... I have found the soldering
> solution when applied to fine multi-strand wires makes a very weak spot
Doh.... just checked my drum of Cat5e and it's solid single cores.
Dave Liquorice
>> Also... I have found the soldering solution when applied to fine
>> multi-strand wires makes a very weak spot
>
> Doh.... just checked my drum of Cat5e and it's solid single cores.
I was just about to say that "installation" CAT5e is solid core.
"Patch" cable is multistrand.
As to soldering and melting back the insulation, thats just bad
technique or an iron that is too hot. Occasionally you will find
insualtion that shrinks back at finger temperature but not very
often. Anyway each joint will be sleeved...
--
Cheers
Dave.
Adrian C
> I can do them quick, or so they work ;-) (and that's with the right
> tool). Probably made a little harder because I only normally need do it
> on the "wrong" (i.e. solid core) cable.
>
It's me life that the most readily available Cat5-type cable I get is
Solid Core (nearest electrical wholesaler) and the most readily
available RJ45 plugs are for stranded cable (Maplin). Even a carefully
planed order to CPC ended up with the wrong plugs.
FWIW I've never (yet) had problems crimping and continuity testing them,
but the installations are fairly static. My crimp tools (3!) are the
simple squeeze afair, but I've just spotted a cheap Draper one with a
ratchet on Amazon which looks worth a shot.
--
Adrian C
Ian Jackson
Liquorice <allsortsn...@howhill.com> writes
advised can actually solder!
As for an iron being "too hot", it's more likely that the soldering
technique is wrong, and the solderer isn't quick enough. There's nothing
worse than an iron which isn't hot enough.
--
Ian
www.GymRatZ.co.uk
> As for an iron being "too hot", it's more likely that the soldering
> technique is wrong, and the solderer isn't quick enough. There's nothing
> worse than an iron which isn't hot enough.
:¬)
I'd also agree that the iron not being hot-enough is more a problem than
too hot .... touch touch remove - job done.
However trying to get 2 free ends in the right place while floating in
mid-cavity either requires incredible finger deterity or the abillity to
operate a soldering iron by mouth with the precision of an armless
christmas card artist. There will almost certainly be pokey-out bits of
either wire or solder. The abillity to solder is not the issue it's the
location of the joint and the the fact there are a lot of joints that
will make all except the first one or 2 extremely hard to marry up for a
clean joint.
--
http://www.GymRatZ.co.uk - Fitness+Gym Equipment.
The Natural Philosopher
> On 18/05/2011 19:33, Ian Jackson wrote:
>
>> As for an iron being "too hot", it's more likely that the soldering
>> technique is wrong, and the solderer isn't quick enough. There's nothing
>> worse than an iron which isn't hot enough.
>
> :¬)
> I'd also agree that the iron not being hot-enough is more a problem than
> too hot .... touch touch remove - job done.
>
> However trying to get 2 free ends in the right place while floating in
> mid-cavity either requires incredible finger deterity or the abillity to
> operate a soldering iron by mouth with the precision of an armless
> christmas card artist. There will almost certainly be pokey-out bits of
> either wire or solder. The abillity to solder is not the issue it's the
> location of the joint and the the fact there are a lot of joints that
> will make all except the first one or 2 extremely hard to marry up for a
> clean joint.
>
>
Twist the overlapped ends together, apply hot iron and solder, slide
previously placed sleeving back over joint...
The very first thing I was taught as an apprentice learning how to
solder 'the Marconi Way' was that until and unless you had a
mechanically sound joint, you should not apply solder..even soldering
circuit boards required that component wires be bent along tracks a mm
or so THEN cropped.
Temporary lab lash ups were exempt, BUT 'the wire fell off' was no
excuse either.
This is exactly what SHOULD be taught to electricians at technical schools.
Frank Erskine
<t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>The very first thing I was taught as an apprentice learning how to
>solder 'the Marconi Way' was that until and unless you had a
>mechanically sound joint, you should not apply solder..
Make a joint that "doesn't need soldering" - then solder it :-)
--
Frank Erskine
Mike Tomlinson
<t...@invalid.invalid> escribió:
>Twist the overlapped ends together, apply hot iron and solder, slide
>previously placed sleeving back over joint...
... find you can't get the sleeve over the joint 'cos the heat
travelling up the wire from the iron has caused the end of the sleeve to
shrink...
--
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
Bob Eager
Also, those instructions were straight out of a Hynes manual. They
mentioned the sleeving far too late!
--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor
dennis@home
"Bob Eager" <rd...@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:93jpl6...@mid.individual.net...
> On Thu, 19 May 2011 06:25:28 +0100, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
>
>> En el artículo <ir1903$9k2$1...@news.albasani.net>, The Natural Philosopher
>> <t...@invalid.invalid> escribió:
>>
>>>Twist the overlapped ends together, apply hot iron and solder, slide
>>>previously placed sleeving back over joint...
>>
>> ... find you can't get the sleeve over the joint 'cos the heat
>> travelling up the wire from the iron has caused the end of the sleeve to
>> shrink...
>
> Also, those instructions were straight out of a Hynes manual. They
> mentioned the sleeving far too late!
Were they for a twisted data cable?
Its easy to push the sleeve an inch or two up a mains cable, not so on a
twisted cable without untwisting it.
Dave Liquorice
> Its easy to push the sleeve an inch or two up a mains cable, not so on a
> twisted cable without untwisting it.
You don't untwist it. You just pry the wires apart a bit and thread
the sleeve on following the twist.
--
Cheers
Dave.
Bob Eager
It is if it's a suitable heatshrink one.
Dave Liquorice
> However trying to get 2 free ends in the right place while floating in
> mid-cavity either requires incredible finger deterity or the abillity to
> operate a soldering iron by mouth with the precision of an armless
> christmas card artist.
But one makes a small neat mechanical joint first.
--
Cheers
Dave.
The Natural Philosopher
squeezed tight with small pliers.
Andy Wade
> As to soldering and melting back the insulation, thats just bad
> technique or an iron that is too hot. Occasionally you will find
> insualtion that shrinks back at finger temperature but not very
> often.
That certainly shouldn't be a problem with CAT5 cable. The wire
insulation is FEP -- a thermosetting compound with a melting point of
260 deg. C according to Wikipedia. It's the cheaper grades of PVC that
tend to suffer from shrink-back.
--
Andy
d...@gglz.com
> I've been putting cat5e cables throughout my place as part of the
> conversion project - all within the studwork.
>
> Because of a late-in-the-day change in room layouts, the place where
> I'm drawing all the cables together has moved.
>
> Being a sensible chap, I left plenty of spare length on the cables -
> except where I didn't.
>
> So 4 cables need to be extended, and the joint location will become
> permanently closed within the cavity.
>
> How to join these cables?
>
> RJ45's and back-to-back connector?
>
> Solder?
>
> Something else?
Many thanks to all for the rich and varied replies - I have read them
all!
To answer points that have come up a few times - I can solder
beautifully (for those in the know, Lemo connectors - no problem), I
have access to a professional RJ45/RJ11 crimp tool (and have put on
hundreds of RJ11's without a single fault) - so my question really was
"which is best for a sealed cavity?"
The one solution not open to me, is to pull new cables. Half of the
rather tortuous routes are already plasterboarded and skimmed over -
no chance that a new cable will pull through.
I will probably solder, as it's still quite straightforward to draw
the cables out into the room for easy working.
Camdor
> I've been putting cat5e cables throughout my place as part of the
> conversion project - all within the studwork.
>
> Because of a late-in-the-day change in room layouts, the place where
> I'm drawing all the cables together has moved.
>
> Being a sensible chap, I left plenty of spare length on the cables -
> except where I didn't.
>
> So 4 cables need to be extended, and the joint location will become
> permanently closed within the cavity.
>
> How to join these cables?
>
> RJ45's and back-to-back connector?
>
> Solder?
>
> Something else?
This is the proper way to do it
http://www.kenable.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=2231
--
Regards
Camdor.
Bob Eager
Exactly. What I posted very near the start of this thread, though...!
The Natural Philosopher
No, that's the EXPENSIVE way to do it.
Frank Erskine
>This is the proper way to do it
>http://www.kenable.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=2231
"Click to enlarge" gives you a smaller picture :-)
--
Frank Erskine
Ian Jackson
<t...@invalid.invalid> writes
While there are several 'professional' ways of doing this, I still think
that, for a joint hidden away in a cavity wall, the wires ought to be
soldered, given a waft of WD40, heatshrink sleeves fitted, and the whole
thing taped up tightly with self-amalgamating tape. Ideally, you should
be able to swing on the cable.
--
ian
geoff
<cam...@gmail.com> writes
naff ways of doing it also have to be explored
--
geoff
geoff
<ianREMOVET...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk> writes
There now follows a sub thread on how best to tie a noose ...
--
geoff
John Rumm
Not boasting, but I do have a large one:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Image:InlineCat5Coupler.jpg
--
Cheers,
John.
/=================================================================\
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|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/
The Natural Philosopher
I totally agree.
Steve Walker
Tut, tut, no more than 25 pounds pull on Cat 5e!!! ;)
SteveW