25 Year Old Warm Air Boiler

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MATTHE...@southdowns.nhs.uk

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Feb 6, 2007, 10:15:07 AM2/6/07
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Good afternoon,

I am in the process of buying a property and have had the boiler
checked. British Gas have said it is unsafe and cannot be repaired as
the boiler type was made with Asbestos and it is so old anyway.

It looks as if I will need to negociate a price reduction with this,
has anybody had to replace their warm air boilers in the past? How
much is it likely to cost? Is there a way around it?

I am reluctant to install a new radiator system as it is likely to
cost double and it is only a buy-to-let, any thoughts?

Regards,

Mat.

manat...@hotmail.com

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Feb 6, 2007, 10:20:56 AM2/6/07
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First thing to do is get a second opinion from someone (anyone!) other
than BG. They are notorious for condemning equipment as being
unrepairable when spares are readily available from other suppliers.

If I were staying in the house I would replace with a wet system every
time but I understand your concerns and repair/replacement may be the
best option for you so long as tenants are happy with warm air
heating. Check with a few letting agents that it's not going to be an
issue.

MBQ

John

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Feb 6, 2007, 10:26:17 AM2/6/07
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<MATTHE...@SOUTHDOWNS.NHS.UK> wrote in message
news:1170774907.0...@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...

First, get another CORGI to look at it - British Gas may have condemned it
unnecessarily. If, however, they are right, these are the people for
supplying a new boiler:

http://www.johnsonandstarleyltd.co.uk/prod_boilers.asp

John.


Grow Your Own Energy

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Feb 6, 2007, 10:30:57 AM2/6/07
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Have you considered an Air Heat Pump?

An energy efficient alternative to wet central heating, you'd also be
doing your bit to reduce emissions and save money. There's free
impartial advice on heat pumps and lots of other renewable technology
at www.growyourownenergy.co.uk

Have a go at the Technology Benefits Questionnaire - this asks you a
series of questions about your home and will send you a free report on
what is viable for your property.


Mike Clarke

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Feb 6, 2007, 10:46:01 AM2/6/07
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MATTHE...@SOUTHDOWNS.NHS.UK wrote:

> It looks as if I will need to negociate a price reduction with this,
> has anybody had to replace their warm air boilers in the past?  How
> much is it likely to cost?  Is there a way around it?

Check the flue as well as the heater unit. We had warm air in our previous
house and the flue followed a very torturous route up through the house. A
new heating unit using the old flue wouldn't have complied with the regs.
Relocating the heating unit to meet flue requirements would have involved
major, expensive and inconvenient, rerouting of the air ducts. We found
that a wet system was the only viable alternative.

--
Mike Clarke

Tony Bryer

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Feb 6, 2007, 10:58:00 AM2/6/07
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On 6 Feb 2007 07:15:07 -0800 wrote :
> It looks as if I will need to negociate a price reduction with this,
> has anybody had to replace their warm air boilers in the past? How
> much is it likely to cost? Is there a way around it?
>
> I am reluctant to install a new radiator system as it is likely to
> cost double and it is only a buy-to-let, any thoughts?

It's a long while since he did it, but a friend of mine found himself
in a similar position but was able to obtain a heat exchanger which
directly replaced the original warm air 'boiler', this being heated by
a normal wall-hung boiler. Minus: probably not as good a system as
radiators); Plus: quick easy installation with minimum changes to
decor.

http://www.johnsonandstarley.co.uk/ammend/prod_warm.asp?p=aquaire

is the sort of thing he installed

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk

Grumps

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Feb 6, 2007, 11:20:56 AM2/6/07
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My mum had a Johnson & Starley J32 (I think) fitted last year (or was it the
year before?).
It cost about £1700 to supply, fit, remove old unit, remove old asbestos
flue, remove old water heater, and make it all good as new :)
This was just under £1000 cheaper than BG, and BG quoted for a lower power
unit.
Note that this J32 does not heat the water, just central heating.

I certainly wouldn't be put off buying a property because it had warm air
heating.


Doctor Drivel

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Feb 6, 2007, 11:48:05 AM2/6/07
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<manat...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1170775256....@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...

> On Feb 6, 3:15 pm, MATTHEW.SW...@SOUTHDOWNS.NHS.UK wrote:
>> Good afternoon,
>>
>> I am in the process of buying a property and have had the boiler
>> checked. British Gas have said it is unsafe and cannot be repaired as
>> the boiler type was made with Asbestos and it is so old anyway.
>>
>> It looks as if I will need to negociate a price reduction with this,
>> has anybody had to replace their warm air boilers in the past? How
>> much is it likely to cost? Is there a way around it?
>>
>> I am reluctant to install a new radiator system as it is likely to
>> cost double and it is only a buy-to-let, any thoughts?
>
> First thing to do is get a second opinion from someone (anyone!) other
> than BG. They are notorious for condemning equipment as being
> unrepairable when spares are readily available from other suppliers.
>
> If I were staying in the house I would replace with a wet system every
> time

Nonsense. Forced air beat a wet system hands down.

manat...@hotmail.com

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Feb 6, 2007, 11:58:07 AM2/6/07
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On Feb 6, 4:48 pm, "Doctor Drivel" <Min...@nospam.com> wrote:
> <manatba...@hotmail.com> wrote in message

Nope, it was a statement of fact.

> Forced air beat a wet system hands down.

That's just opinion which can, indeed, be nonsense.

Please put me in your killfile.

MBQ

David Hansen

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Feb 6, 2007, 12:04:17 PM2/6/07
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On Tue, 6 Feb 2007 16:48:05 -0000 someone who may be "Doctor Drivel"
<Min...@nospam.com> wrote this:-

>Nonsense.

Excellent, proof by assertion.

>Forced air beat a wet system hands down.

Using what criteria?

For example, if the criteria is the size of the pipes/ducts carrying
the heat then a wet system will always beat an air system.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

Doctor Drivel

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Feb 6, 2007, 11:50:45 AM2/6/07
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"John" <no...@mwanted.com> wrote in message
news:yJ6dnRMPasCLA1XY...@bt.com...

They have direct replacement for nearly all makes. They also have units that
are far more advanced with modulating burners and modulating fans with
electrostatic air filters, etc. They also have the summer mode which
circulates air in summer, this really doe keep the temperature down. The
new units are quieter than the old.

Doctor Drivel

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Feb 6, 2007, 12:11:08 PM2/6/07
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"Tony Bryer" <to...@delme.sda.co.uk> wrote in message
news:VA.000040c...@delme.sda.co.uk...

> On 6 Feb 2007 07:15:07 -0800 wrote :
>> It looks as if I will need to negociate a price reduction with this,
>> has anybody had to replace their warm air boilers in the past? How
>> much is it likely to cost? Is there a way around it?
>>
>> I am reluctant to install a new radiator system as it is likely to
>> cost double and it is only a buy-to-let, any thoughts?
>
> It's a long while since he did it, but a friend of mine found himself
> in a similar position but was able to obtain a heat exchanger which
> directly replaced the original warm air 'boiler', this being heated by
> a normal wall-hung boiler. Minus: probably not as good a system as
> radiators);

"Probably" is the word. usually they are "better" than wet systems.

How much was the air handling unit? He would have needed some ducting to
complete the installation in the cupboard. These are good when using a high
flow combi. Just set the combi on full CH temp and easy from then.

On the air handling unit it is best to have a modulating Valve to keep the
discharge temperature stable (say 20-21C). Local controllers can modulate
the louvers on each room. Then the controllers can be brought to a central
time control and you can zone up the house to suit - pick your zone. The
controller can all be in one place and just have temperature sensors in the
return duct of each room . No stat or whatnot on the walls, yet precise
temperature control . Simple and highly effective.

Doctor Drivel

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Feb 6, 2007, 12:03:17 PM2/6/07
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"Grumps" <gru...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:52ro9rF...@mid.individual.net...

Perceptions are the problem in the UK. There are over 1 million of these
systems still in use and J&S are selling even more. A lot of large house
use forced air & heat recovery.

Add a heat recovery unit in the loft and then it is a Heat Recovery Unit,
which has an eco tag.


Doctor Drivel

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Feb 6, 2007, 12:15:58 PM2/6/07
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"David Hansen" <SENDdavi...@spidacom.co.uk> wrote in message
news:56dhs21b0r35boeji...@4ax.com...

> On Tue, 6 Feb 2007 16:48:05 -0000 someone who may be "Doctor Drivel"
> <Min...@nospam.com> wrote this:-
>
>>Nonsense.
>
> Excellent, proof by assertion.

Thank you.

>>Forced air beat a wet system hands down.
>
> Using what criteria?

Me. Knowing more about it than anyone here.

> For example, if the criteria is the size of the pipes/ducts carrying
> the heat then a wet system will always beat an air system.

That is not the criteria here. In a renovation or new house ductwork can be
designed into the fabric.

Doctor Drivel

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Feb 6, 2007, 12:17:55 PM2/6/07
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<manat...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1170781087.3...@l53g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

> On Feb 6, 4:48 pm, "Doctor Drivel" <Min...@nospam.com> wrote:
>> <manatba...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:1170775256....@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Feb 6, 3:15 pm, MATTHEW.SW...@SOUTHDOWNS.NHS.UK wrote:
>> >> Good afternoon,
>>
>> >> I am in the process of buying a property and have had the boiler
>> >> checked. British Gas have said it is unsafe and cannot be repaired as
>> >> the boiler type was made with Asbestos and it is so old anyway.
>>
>> >> It looks as if I will need to negociate a price reduction with this,
>> >> has anybody had to replace their warm air boilers in the past? How
>> >> much is it likely to cost? Is there a way around it?
>>
>> >> I am reluctant to install a new radiator system as it is likely to
>> >> cost double and it is only a buy-to-let, any thoughts?
>>
>> > First thing to do is get a second opinion from someone (anyone!) other
>> > than BG. They are notorious for condemning equipment as being
>> > unrepairable when spares are readily available from other suppliers.
>>
>> > If I were staying in the house I would replace with a wet system every
>> > time
>>
>> Nonsense.
>
> Nope, it was a statement of fact.

TOTAL NONSENSE!!!

>> Forced air beats a wet system hands down.
>
> That's just opinion

One based on working and knowing about these things, which you clearly know
sweet FA about.

MATTHE...@southdowns.nhs.uk

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Feb 6, 2007, 12:24:22 PM2/6/07
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Thanks all, this has been very helpful.


David Hansen

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Feb 6, 2007, 12:34:41 PM2/6/07
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On Tue, 6 Feb 2007 17:15:58 -0000 someone who may be "Doctor Drivel"
<Min...@nospam.com> wrote this:-

>> Using what criteria?


>
>Me. Knowing more about it than anyone here.

You know what everyone else here knows? Fascinating.


An expert is someone who knows how little they know about something.
Someone who thinks that they know a lot about something is not an
expert.

Andrew Mawson

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Feb 6, 2007, 1:07:51 PM2/6/07
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<MATTHE...@SOUTHDOWNS.NHS.UK> wrote in message
news:1170774907.0...@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...

Matt,

I have a couple of flats I let out with Halcyon 35 warm air systems
that must be a similar vintage to yours. If anything goes wrong with
them, they are a pain, as very few 'heating engineers' or plumbers
know their way arround these systems. Almost every time I have had my
corgi chap to site and held his hand and shown him the fault, and
repaired it under his watchful eye, or if on the gas side shown him
what to do. They are extremely simple, with the usual series control
loop and internal thermostats, all at 24v driving a standard gas
valve. One two occassions in the last 10 years 'professionals' have
thrown up their hands unable to source spares (a gas valve and a fan
motor) both of which I found and bought for them within 24 hours. I
would have changed them to a conventional wet system purely to avoid
the 'I don't understand' syndrome, but the flat layouts down lend
themselves to radiators.

AWEM


meow...@care2.com

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Feb 6, 2007, 1:54:34 PM2/6/07
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On 6 Feb, 15:15, MATTHEW.SW...@SOUTHDOWNS.NHS.UK wrote:

The presence of asbestos is not normally considered a reason why an
appliance must be replaced. It is standard industrial policy where
replacement is expensive to leave asbestos in place and coat it with
some form of sealant to prevent any possible fibre release.

There are 3 ways asbestos are used:
1. asbestos cement - fibres are bonded in place, so do not normally
release.
2. woven asbestos - can be replaced with fibreglass
3. loose asbestos wool - can be replaced with fibreglass or rockwool.

I would not assume that just because some company tells you you must
give them a few grand that they are really correct about that.


NT

John Stumbles

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Feb 6, 2007, 3:05:09 PM2/6/07
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On Tue, 06 Feb 2007 18:07:51 +0000, Andrew Mawson wrote:

> I have a couple of flats I let out with Halcyon 35 warm air systems
> that must be a similar vintage to yours. If anything goes wrong with
> them, they are a pain, as very few 'heating engineers' or plumbers
> know their way arround these systems.

AIUI warm-air 'boilers' is a separate competence from water-heating
boilers so most CORGI registered engineers who have their 'boilers'
certification are not qualified to work on warm air systems. (There are
obviously different issues such as that leaks of combustion products are
far more liable to be deadly in warm-air units since the combustion gases
are likely to be distributed around the living areas.)

Doctor Drivel

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Feb 6, 2007, 4:41:52 PM2/6/07
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"Andrew Mawson" <andrew@no_spam_please_mawson.org.uk> wrote in message
news:PfydnUR7ee5lXlXY...@bt.com...

> I have a couple of flats I let out with Halcyon 35 warm air systems
> that must be a similar vintage to yours. If anything goes wrong with
> them, they are a pain, as very few 'heating engineers' or plumbers
> know their way arround these systems. Almost every time I have had my
> corgi chap to site and held his hand and shown him the fault, and
> repaired it under his watchful eye, or if on the gas side shown him
> what to do. They are extremely simple, with the usual series control
> loop and internal thermostats, all at 24v driving a standard gas
> valve. One two occassions in the last 10 years 'professionals' have
> thrown up their hands unable to source spares (a gas valve and a fan
> motor) both of which I found and bought for them within 24 hours.

That is the CORGI sharks for you.

Doctor Drivel

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Feb 6, 2007, 4:40:06 PM2/6/07
to

"David Hansen" <SENDdavi...@spidacom.co.uk> wrote in message
news:puehs2d99rb8p5f7i...@4ax.com...

> On Tue, 6 Feb 2007 17:15:58 -0000 someone who may be "Doctor Drivel"
> <Min...@nospam.com> wrote this:-
>
>>> Using what criteria?
>>
>>Me. Knowing more about it than anyone here.
>
> You know what everyone else here knows? Fascinating.

More than. Not fascinating at all.

<snip tripe>

John Stumbles

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Feb 6, 2007, 6:45:17 PM2/6/07
to
On Tue, 06 Feb 2007 15:58:00 +0000, Tony Bryer wrote:

> It's a long while since he did it, but a friend of mine found himself
> in a similar position but was able to obtain a heat exchanger which
> directly replaced the original warm air 'boiler', this being heated by
> a normal wall-hung boiler. Minus: probably not as good a system as
> radiators); Plus: quick easy installation with minimum changes to
> decor.
>
> http://www.johnsonandstarley.co.uk/ammend/prod_warm.asp?p=aquaire
>
> is the sort of thing he installed

But note that it's only 8kW so it won't do much more than a small flat or
a _very_ well insulated house. Or you'd need 2 to do it.


Doctor Drivel

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Feb 6, 2007, 7:08:06 PM2/6/07
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"John Stumbles" <john.s...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2007.02.06...@ntlworld.com...

You will find 8kW (over 27,000 BTU/hr) will do the average house with forced
air. It only heats the air.

meow...@care2.com

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Feb 6, 2007, 7:29:59 PM2/6/07
to
On 6 Feb, 18:54, meow2...@care2.com wrote:
> On 6 Feb, 15:15, MATTHEW.SW...@SOUTHDOWNS.NHS.UK wrote:

> > I am in the process of buying a property and have had the boiler
> > checked. British Gas have said it is unsafe and cannot be repaired as
> > the boiler type was made with Asbestos and it is so old anyway.
>
> > It looks as if I will need to negociate a price reduction with this,
> > has anybody had to replace their warm air boilers in the past? How
> > much is it likely to cost? Is there a way around it?
>
> > I am reluctant to install a new radiator system as it is likely to
> > cost double and it is only a buy-to-let, any thoughts?


Forced air furnaces are the standard type of CH in America. Any USians
reading this thread must think some of the comments very strange.


NT

Tony Bryer

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Feb 7, 2007, 6:55:27 AM2/7/07
to
On 6 Feb 2007 16:29:59 -0800 wrote :
> Forced air furnaces are the standard type of CH in America. Any USians
> reading this thread must think some of the comments very strange.

Perhaps they do it better than us. The British perception is of nasty
1960s el-cheapo systems with a central duct pushing the heat into the
room at just the wrong place (especially in an era when draughty single
glazed windows were the norm) and noisy fans that shut off on and on
very noticeable.

Brian Sharrock

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Feb 7, 2007, 7:05:19 AM2/7/07
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"Tony Bryer" <to...@delme.sda.co.uk> wrote in message
news:VA.000040c...@delme.sda.co.uk...

The USains also tend to have 'Central Air' .... that's air-conditioning
utilising the same ducting and outlets as the Warm Air heating system. If
one lives in a climate that freezes the dangly bits off in the winter and
boils 'em off in the Summer .. a combined system makes sense, particularly
if the installation is done in the build stage.

--

Brian


Doctor Drivel

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Feb 7, 2007, 8:31:59 AM2/7/07
to

"Tony Bryer" <to...@delme.sda.co.uk> wrote in message
news:VA.000040c...@delme.sda.co.uk...
> On 6 Feb 2007 16:29:59 -0800 wrote :
>> Forced air furnaces are the standard type of CH in America. Any USians
>> reading this thread must think some of the comments very strange.
>
> Perhaps they do it better than us.

By a long way. Although updating an exiting system is easy enough in the
UK. New modern unit and soundproof the cupboard.

In summer they cool houses by just circulating air. Makes a big difference.

The comment made by people about them in the UK is laughable and really
shows their ignorance.


Doctor Drivel

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Feb 7, 2007, 8:32:57 AM2/7/07
to

"Brian Sharrock" <b.sha...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:3gjyh.1453$s47...@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net...

>
> "Tony Bryer" <to...@delme.sda.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:VA.000040c...@delme.sda.co.uk...
>> On 6 Feb 2007 16:29:59 -0800 wrote :
>>> Forced air furnaces are the standard type of CH in America. Any USians
>>> reading this thread must think some of the comments very strange.
>>
>> Perhaps they do it better than us. The British perception is of nasty
>> 1960s el-cheapo systems with a central duct pushing the heat into the
>> room at just the wrong place (especially in an era when draughty single
>> glazed windows were the norm) and noisy fans that shut off on and on
>> very noticeable.
>
> The USains also tend to have 'Central Air' .... that's air-conditioning
> utilising the same ducting and outlets as the Warm Air heating system. If
> one lives in a climate that freezes the dangly bits off in the winter and
> boils 'em off in the Summer .. a combined system makes sense, particularly
> if the installation is done in the build stage.

When heat recovery and vent is incorporated these systems are what it is all
about.

Message has been deleted

Doctor Drivel

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Feb 7, 2007, 10:10:32 AM2/7/07
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<m...@privacy.net> wrote in message news:4EB1749606%brian...@lycos.co.uk...
> On 6 Feb,
> Mike Clarke <UCEb...@milibyte.co.uk> wrote:

>
>> MATTHE...@SOUTHDOWNS.NHS.UK wrote:
>>
>> > It looks as if I will need to negociate a price reduction with this,
>> > has anybody had to replace their warm air boilers in the past? How
>> > much is it likely to cost? Is there a way around it?
>>
>> Check the flue as well as the heater unit. We had warm air in our
>> previous
>> house and the flue followed a very torturous route up through the house.
>> A
>> new heating unit using the old flue wouldn't have complied with the regs.
>> Relocating the heating unit to meet flue requirements would have involved
>> major, expensive and inconvenient, rerouting of the air ducts. We found
>> that a wet system was the only viable alternative.
>>
> I don't know if they are still available, but some houses near here were
> built with a conventional boiler feeding a heat exchanger with a variable
> speed fan, to give ducted warm air. They seemed to work well, but the
> originals will be near 30 years old now. Fitting just the heat exchanger
> and
> a new boiler where appropriate would probably work well, if you could
> (unlikely) find someone to fit it.

The makers will give approved fitters.

> I replaced my (fully) dry system 15 years ago for a fully wet system.
> Running
> costs were much reduced, but the dry system had been extended, and as a
> result, wasn't particularly efficient.

Forced air system are cheaper to run. The room temperature can be lowered
as cold spots[pots are eliminated.

Dave Plowman (News)

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Feb 7, 2007, 10:33:19 AM2/7/07
to
In article <45c9d4d7$0$97276$892e...@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net>,

But borne out of experience with UK installations - unlike your pedantic
views.

--
*I'm already visualizing the duct tape over your mouth

Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News)

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Feb 7, 2007, 10:38:33 AM2/7/07
to
In article <45c9ebf7$0$97214$892e...@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net>,

Doctor Drivel <Min...@nospam.com> wrote:
> Forced air system are cheaper to run. The room temperature can be
> lowered as cold spots[pots are eliminated.

Since the heat input is in fact from a smaller area than a rad system, the
same effect can be had as easily by using circulating fans in any room
with radiators.

I'm surprised that as a claimed heating engineer you didn't know this.

--
*The more I learn about women, the more I love my car

Doctor Drivel

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Feb 7, 2007, 11:20:43 AM2/7/07
to

"Dave Plowman (News)" <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4eb17c2...@davenoise.co.uk...

> In article <45c9ebf7$0$97214$892e...@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net>,
> Doctor Drivel <Min...@nospam.com> wrote:
>> Forced air system are cheaper to run. The room temperature can be
>> lowered as cold spots[pots are eliminated.
>
> Since

Please eff off you are silly, know nothing and a complete plantpot.

Doctor Drivel

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Feb 7, 2007, 11:21:27 AM2/7/07
to

"Dave Plowman (News)" <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4eb17ba...@davenoise.co.uk...

> In article <45c9d4d7$0$97276$892e...@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net>,
> Doctor Drivel <Min...@nospam.com> wrote:
>> "Tony Bryer" <to...@delme.sda.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:VA.000040c...@delme.sda.co.uk...
>> > On 6 Feb 2007 16:29:59 -0800 wrote :
>> >> Forced air furnaces are the standard type of CH in America. Any USians
>> >> reading this thread must think some of the comments very strange.
>> >
>> > Perhaps they do it better than us.
>
>> By a long way. Although updating an exiting system is easy enough in
>> the UK. New modern unit and soundproof the cupboard.
>
>> In summer they cool houses by just circulating air. Makes a big
>> difference.
>
>> The comment made by people about them in the UK is laughable and really
>> shows their ignorance.
>
> But

Please eff off you are a plantpot.

David Hansen

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Feb 7, 2007, 11:49:40 AM2/7/07
to
On Wed, 7 Feb 2007 15:10:32 -0000 someone who may be "Doctor Drivel"
<Min...@nospam.com> wrote this:-

>Forced air system are cheaper to run.

Which is why such systems were removed and replaced with wet
systems. Not.

>The room temperature can be lowered as cold spots[pots are eliminated.

A heat emitter that is smaller than a radiator and emits no radiated
heat worth mentioning is going to eliminate cold spots. Fascinating.

While there are some advantages to warm air heating all the ones
that have been offered so far have been bogus.

Doctor Drivel

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Feb 7, 2007, 11:53:54 AM2/7/07
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"David Hansen" <SENDdavi...@spidacom.co.uk> wrote in message
news:th0ks2lqau1000o31...@4ax.com...

> On Wed, 7 Feb 2007 15:10:32 -0000 someone who may be "Doctor Drivel"
> <Min...@nospam.com> wrote this:-
>
>>Forced air system are cheaper to run.
>
> Which is why such systems were
> removed and replaced with wet
> systems. Not.

No. They are mainly removed because of ignorance. Also it is easy to put a
humidifier in a forced air system. Try that with rads.

>>The room temperature can be lowered as

>>cold spots are eliminated.


>
> A heat emitter that is smaller than a
> radiator and emits no radiated
> heat worth mentioning is going to
> eliminate cold spots. Fascinating.

You really have not a clue. The fan circulates the heat to all corners of
the room. Drafts are eliminated because of positive pressure.

> While there are some advantages to warm air heating all the ones
> that have been offered so far have been bogus.

As I say, you really have no clue at all.

David Hansen

unread,
Feb 7, 2007, 12:39:03 PM2/7/07
to
On Wed, 7 Feb 2007 16:53:54 -0000 someone who may be "Doctor Drivel"
<Min...@nospam.com> wrote this:-

>> Which is why such systems were


>> removed and replaced with wet
>> systems. Not.
>
>No. They are mainly removed because of ignorance.

Ah, proof by assertion.

>Also it is easy to put a humidifier in a forced air system.

I can't think of any reason to increase the humidity in a house in
the UK. Can you?

>You really have not a clue.

Ah, proof by assertion.

>The fan circulates the heat to all corners of
>the room.

That is not even the case in some theoretical world.

One can do reasonably well with proper design, but even so areas of
largely stagnant air will be present, unless the room has lots of
supply and extract points which is unlikely in a house. In the
typical house room with one supply and one extract point there will
be largely stagnant areas.

>Drafts are eliminated because of positive pressure.

Positive pressure, for various reasons something which I suspect I
have rather more of a clue about than most, blows air out of the
cracks in the building. Unless the building is underground or in an
extremely exposed location this will increase heat losses and hence
the running costs. Remember that we are talking about a house, not
some conceptual building.

Note also that if you were correct in saying that all corners of the
room are heated equally then that will also increase heat losses.

Positive pressure does have some advantages if it is kept running
continuously, but one has to remember that these are gained at the
expense of running fans continuously.

Doctor Drivel

unread,
Feb 7, 2007, 1:07:08 PM2/7/07
to

"David Hansen" <SENDdavi...@spidacom.co.uk> wrote in message
news:gv2ks2tee3j2quhqi...@4ax.com...

> On Wed, 7 Feb 2007 16:53:54 -0000 someone who may be "Doctor Drivel"
> <Min...@nospam.com> wrote this:-
>
>>> Which is why such systems were
>>> removed and replaced with wet
>>> systems. Not.
>>
>>No. They are mainly removed because of ignorance.
>
> Ah, proof by assertion.

No. By knowing far more than you.

>> Also it is easy to put a humidifier
>> in a forced air system.
>
> I can't think of any reason to increase
> the humidity in a house in the UK. Can you?

Yes, to get the humidity up.

>>You really have not a clue.
>
> Ah, proof by assertion.

No. By knowing far more than you.

>>The fan circulates the heat to all corners of
>>the room.
>
> That is not even the case in some theoretical world.

Dain: The fan circulates the heat to all corners of the room.

> One can do reasonably well with proper
> design, but even so areas of
> largely stagnant air will be present, unless
> the room has lots of supply and extract points
> which is unlikely in a house.

Again: You really have not a clue.

> In the typical house room with one supply
> and one extract point there will
> be largely stagnant areas.

You design so no dead spaces.

>>Drafts are eliminated because
>>of positive pressure.
>
> Positive pressure, for various reasons something which I suspect I
> have rather more of a clue about than most, blows air out of the
> cracks in the building.

Most of the time it is negative. As it counters air trying to get in.

> Note also that if you were correct
> in saying that all corners of the
> room are heated equally then that
> will also increase heat losses.

Nope.

> Positive pressure does have some
> advantages if it is kept running
> continuously, but one has to remember
> that these are gained at the
> expense of running fans continuously.

Fan are not expensive to run.

Doctor Drivel

unread,
Feb 12, 2007, 9:31:28 AM2/12/07
to

"Tony Bryer" <to...@delme.sda.co.uk> wrote in message
news:VA.000040c...@delme.sda.co.uk...
> On 6 Feb 2007 07:15:07 -0800 wrote :
>> It looks as if I will need to negociate a price reduction with this,
>> has anybody had to replace their warm air boilers in the past? How
>> much is it likely to cost? Is there a way around it?
>>
>> I am reluctant to install a new radiator system as it is likely to
>> cost double and it is only a buy-to-let, any thoughts?
>
> It's a long while since he did it, but a friend of mine found himself
> in a similar position but was able to obtain a heat exchanger which
> directly replaced the original warm air 'boiler', this being heated by
> a normal wall-hung boiler. Minus: probably not as good a system as
> radiators); Plus: quick easy installation with minimum changes to
> decor.
>
> http://www.johnsonandstarley.co.uk/ammend/prod_warm.asp?p=aquaire
>
> is the sort of thing he installed

£850 + VAT and £224 + VAT for the cleanair filter (optional) You will get
around 20% off that.

Not bad. OK you will need some ducting and grills and registers. Have a
high flow combi that heats this unit and overall not a bad price at all. And
no rads

Dave Plowman (News)

unread,
Feb 12, 2007, 2:00:06 PM2/12/07
to
In article <45d07a45$0$97277$892e...@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net>,

Doctor Drivel <Min...@nospam.com> wrote:
> > http://www.johnsonandstarley.co.uk/ammend/prod_warm.asp?p=aquaire
> >
> > is the sort of thing he installed

> £850 + VAT and £224 + VAT for the cleanair filter (optional) You will
> get around 20% off that.

> Not bad. OK you will need some ducting and grills and registers. Have
> a high flow combi that heats this unit and overall not a bad price at
> all. And no rads

And still a house no one will want to buy. Better to save the repair cost
and put it towards a proper system.

--
*My designated driver drove me to drink

Doctor Drivel

unread,
Feb 12, 2007, 2:30:59 PM2/12/07
to

"Dave Plowman (News)" <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4eb421c...@davenoise.co.uk...

> In article <45d07a45$0$97277$892e...@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net>,
> Doctor Drivel <Min...@nospam.com> wrote:
>> > http://www.johnsonandstarley.co.uk/ammend/prod_warm.asp?p=aquaire
>> >
>> > is the sort of thing he installed
>
>> £850 + VAT and £224 + VAT for the cleanair filter (optional) You will
>> get around 20% off that.
>
>> Not bad. OK you will need some ducting and grills and registers. Have
>> a high flow combi that heats this unit and overall not a bad price at
>> all. And no rads
>
> And

Please eff off as you are stupid.

Guy King

unread,
Feb 12, 2007, 3:21:38 PM2/12/07
to
The message <4eb421c...@davenoise.co.uk>
from "Dave Plowman (News)" <da...@davenoise.co.uk> contains these words:

> > Not bad. OK you will need some ducting and grills and registers. Have
> > a high flow combi that heats this unit and overall not a bad price at
> > all. And no rads

> And still a house no one will want to buy. Better to save the repair cost
> and put it towards a proper system.

This whole estate had wram air heating. Out over over 1000 houses
there's only two or three which still have it. Everyone else has seen
sense.

--
Skipweasel
We have always been at war with Iran. [George Orwell - almost]

Doctor Drivel

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Feb 12, 2007, 3:32:45 PM2/12/07
to

"Guy King" <guy....@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3130303034323...@zetnet.co.uk...

> The message <4eb421c...@davenoise.co.uk>
> from "Dave Plowman (News)" <da...@davenoise.co.uk> contains these words:
>
>> > Not bad. OK you will need some ducting and grills and registers. Have
>> > a high flow combi that heats this unit and overall not a bad price at
>> > all. And no rads
>
>> And still a house no one will want to buy. Better to save the repair cost
>> and put it towards a proper system.
>
> This whole estate had wram air heating. Out over over 1000 houses
> there's only two or three which still have it. Everyone else has seen
> sense.

More like listened to stupid plumbers.

raden

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Feb 12, 2007, 6:40:57 PM2/12/07
to
In message <45d0cef4$0$97248$892e...@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net>,
Doctor Drivel <Min...@nospam.com> writes
He just doesn't understand when he's beaten, does he ?

--
geoff

Doctor Drivel

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Feb 12, 2007, 6:45:36 PM2/12/07
to

"raden" <ra...@kateda.org> wrote in message
news:zYlQnjbs...@ntlworld.com...

It looks like 1000 people were all beat - or conned silly.

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