Front windscreen wiper relay faulty?

[Phil K]

Hi all,

I have a 2001 Nissan Almera Tino. The front wipers started playing up (only
working occasionally), and then stopped altogether. I'm trying to eliminate
possible causes in a logical sequence.

The 30A fuse is OK. I then guessed it was the motor, so I got hold of a
working motor but found that when I plugged it in and switchin on, it
didn't turn.

I guess the fault could be either the switch or the relay. Do relays often
go wrong, and is there a way to check them?

Thank you,

Phil K

[meow...@care2.com]

Use a multimeter to find what's faulty


NT

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <XnsA424A3D...@130.133.4.11>,

They can, but it's more likely to be the switch. Does the relay click?

--
*We have enough youth, how about a fountain of Smart?

Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Lee]

Jumping pins 3 and 5 (switch contacts) of the wiper power supply relay
should remove that from the investigation, failing that check the
grounds - everything else is built into the switch...

[DerbyBorn]

Phil K <p...@xxdd44.com> wrote in news:XnsA424A3D...@130.133.4.11:

They have some strange wiring as the earth acts as a brake. To park, the
armature windings are shorted when the power is removed when the internal
switch gets to the parking position.

[Lee]

On 16/01/2015 16:08, Phil K wrote:

Looking at the wiring diagram, you should be able to swap the front
wiper relay for the rear wiper relay. That might be a better test if you
are not comfortable with stuffing wires in relay sockets :)

[Phil K]

"Dave Plowman (News)" <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in
news:5486f55...@davenoise.co.uk:

> They can, but it's more likely to be the switch. Does the relay click?

No, the relay doesn't cklick when I turn the wipers on.]

Phil

[AL_n]

Lee <cyber...@ukonline.net> wrote in news:1kbuw.98404$FO6....@fx33.am4:

> Looking at the wiring diagram, you should be able to swap the front
> wiper relay for the rear wiper relay. That might be a better test if you
> are not comfortable with stuffing wires in relay sockets :)

Great - thanks. I will try that, tomorrow when daylight returns. I can see
two relays in there, one is blue and the other is black. They are exactly
the same size and shape. I will try swapping them over.

Regards,Phil

[Brian Gaff]

Well a now deceased friend had no end of issues with relays. The placement
under the wing did not help as crud got into the box and played havoc with
them.
Assuming its switching the high current with a relay, and assuming no
chafed wres, then seems the next logical place to look.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Phil K" <p...@xxdd44.com> wrote in message
news:XnsA424A3D...@130.133.4.11...

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <XnsA424AF8B...@130.133.4.11>,

AL_n <fgdf...@fghfghfg.com> wrote:
> Great - thanks. I will try that, tomorrow when daylight returns. I can
> see two relays in there, one is blue and the other is black. They are
> exactly the same size and shape. I will try swapping them over.

Be careful. There is a big range of 'relays' with the standard pin layout
so will physically fit - but may well not be the same. Especially if
maker's ones and a different colour.

--
*A cubicle is just a padded cell without a door.

[Lee]

On 16/01/2015 17:57, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <XnsA424AF8B...@130.133.4.11>,
> AL_n <fgdf...@fghfghfg.com> wrote:
>> Great - thanks. I will try that, tomorrow when daylight returns. I can
>> see two relays in there, one is blue and the other is black. They are
>> exactly the same size and shape. I will try swapping them over.
>
> Be careful. There is a big range of 'relays' with the standard pin layout
> so will physically fit - but may well not be the same. Especially if
> maker's ones and a different colour.
>

+1 Well yes and even more so if they are different colours.

In this case the wiring digram
http://www.elektroda.pl/rtvforum/download.php?id=433394
suggests they are simple SPDT relays with only the NO/common connection
being used, so swapping them shouldn't cause a problem - as long as the
OP has identified the right pair :)

Not sure what it will prove anyway, unless the relay coil is faulty, as
they are only used to provide a power feed with the ignition switch on.
As said, everything else is handled by the switch (and motor).

[Rod Speed]

Phil K <p...@xxdd44.com> wrote

> Hi all,

all hanged himself, got too many questions.

> I have a 2001 Nissan Almera Tino.

Where do they get these stupid names from ?

> The front wipers started playing up (only working
> occasionally), and then stopped altogether. I'm trying
> to eliminate possible causes in a logical sequence.

> The 30A fuse is OK. I then guessed it was the motor,
> so I got hold of a working motor but found that
> when I plugged it in and switchin on, it didn't turn.

> I guess the fault could be either the switch or the relay.

Or even the wiring.

> Do relays often go wrong,

They certainly can fail.

> and is there a way to check them?

Yes, but you do have to know how to do that
and if you have to ask, you clearly don’t.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <chtjt2...@mid.individual.net>,

Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Do relays often go wrong,

> They certainly can fail.

That is not the same as 'often go wrong'.

Try understanding the post.

--
*Santa's helpers are subordinate clauses*

[bm]

"Rod Speed" <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:chtjt2...@mid.individual.net...

LOL












prick

[bm]

"Rod Speed" <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:chtjt2...@mid.individual.net...

Tell us what you know about camel shagging in the sahara.
Where did you get the T-shirt?

[Rod Speed]

Dave Plowman (News) <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote

> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote

>>> Do relays often go wrong,

>> They certainly can fail.

> That is not the same as 'often go wrong'.

Duh.

> Try understanding the post.

Understood the post fine.

I commented on where the problem could be in the
rest of my response that you carefully deleted from
the quoting so you could snipe like a 2 year old
from the sidelines. Its obvious why you got killfiled.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <chu14j...@mid.individual.net>,

Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dave Plowman (News) <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote
> > Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote

> >>> Do relays often go wrong,
>
> >> They certainly can fail.
>
> > That is not the same as 'often go wrong'.

> Duh.
>
> > Try understanding the post.

> Understood the post fine.

But then gave an unhelpful answer?

> I commented on where the problem could be in the
> rest of my response that you carefully deleted from
> the quoting

I snipped the part with no useful information. Which should really have
been it all.

> so you could snipe like a 2 year old
> from the sidelines.

Tee hee.

> Its obvious why you got killfiled.

But not by you, sadly.

>

--
*Xerox and Wurlitzer will merge to market reproductive organs.

[Phil K]

Lee <cyber...@ukonline.net> wrote in
news:i2euw.111658$ls6....@fx16.am4:

Update: I took the lower dash panel off so I could see into the
fuse/relay compartment. I was assuming that the black relay I could see
was the wiper relay because it looks exacly like one I'd seen on ebay
described as front+rear wiper relay.

http://tinyurl.com/nsat7kh

However, when I removed both relays (the blue one and the adjacent black
one, everything on the car still works! (Apart from the front wiper, that
is.)

I checked: blinkers, headlights, starter motor, rear wiper.

So now I'm stumped. There is a discussion thread somewhere on the net
where someone confidently states that the wiper relay is in that
compartment. And one of the relays in there certainly appears identical
to the one at the above URL.

There is one other relay in there, and it's about 50% bigger in size and
more square in section (approx 30mm x 30mm) and has 'Nissan' and a long
part number on it that's hard to read. I tried pulling that out but it
doesn't want to come out. There may be some hidden clip that needs
releasing. .

Any suggestions? Thank you again.

Phil K

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <XnsA4257A2F...@130.133.4.11>,

Phil K <p...@xxdd44.com> wrote:
> There is one other relay in there, and it's about 50% bigger in size and
> more square in section (approx 30mm x 30mm) and has 'Nissan' and a long
> part number on it that's hard to read. I tried pulling that out but it
> doesn't want to come out. There may be some hidden clip that needs
> releasing. .

> Any suggestions? Thank you again.

It's one of those things it would be best to have a circuit diagram for -
without having exact knowledge of how your model does things.

For example it's possible the relay only does the delayed wipe function.
Or even is just part of the parking circuit. Either of which could have an
effect on the operation of the whole. It's a bit of a minefield.
However, one relay isn't going to control low and high speeds and
intermittent. The switch normally does that - possibly using several
relays.

--
*My luck is so bad that if I bought a cemetery, people would stop dying.

[Phil K]

Phil K <p...@xxdd44.com> wrote in

news:XnsA4257A2F...@130.133.4.11:

PS - Correction: After I pulled the two relays, the windows stopped
working. Replacing the blue relay restored power to the windows.

The adjacent black relay that might be the front wiper relay is part
number 4RD 007 814-04 It looks identical to the one in the eBay link
http://tinyurl.com/nsat7kh

The bigger black relay that I can't pull out is part number
24330 0900 it measures about 1" x 1" x 2"

Phil K

[Phil K]

"Dave Plowman (News)" <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in
news:5487615...@davenoise.co.uk:

> It's one of those things it would be best to have a circuit diagram for -
> without having exact knowledge of how your model does things.
>

I have scanned the wiper circuits page fropm my Haynes manual here:

http://www.p-p-p.in/

Thanks,
Phil K

[AL_n]

Phil K <p...@xxdd44.com> wrote in news:XnsA42582FA...@130.133.4.11:

> I have scanned the wiper circuits page fropm my Haynes manual here:
>
> http://www.p-p-p.in/

PS - just to clarify, the manual covers Nissan Almera and Nissan Almera
TINO models, from 200 to 2007. My car is the TINO model, yr 2001.

Regards,
Phil K

[The Natural Philosopher]

I had two relays go weird on me. In one case dismantling it and using
emery board on te contacts restore XJS rear window demister to order

In the other case plugging it in again made it work.

Corroded contacts are the most common source of relay failure - on
normal voltages the coils cant burn out or arc over and short.

Another failure mode happened last week on friends Citrone. No wasers
ether front or rear. In the end we determined that there was abut a
single two wire motor that was getting + or - 12v. Pulled it out. just
went 'clunk' on application of 12v

Further dismantling revealed that the motor - what in model aeroplane
terms would be called a 'speed 400' - had simply seized its main plain
bearings.

wiper motors are a bit more meaty than that, but they too should work on
application of 12v if removed. They do have park switches as well of course.

Once you ID the parts in the chain its not hard to test them one item at
a time with a volt or resistance meter.






--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. – Erwin Knoll

[Phil K]

meow...@care2.com wrote in news:a3130bac-ab22-4485-8844-151d5e9e6370
@googlegroups.com:

> Use a multimeter to find what's faulty

Thanks. While I have used a multi-meter for very basic tests, I'm not
really experienced enough to use it reliably for circuits of this type of
complexity.

Phil K

[AL_n]

Lee <cyber...@ukonline.net> wrote in news:hcbuw.98403$FO6....@fx33.am4:

> Jumping pins 3 and 5 (switch contacts) of the wiper power supply relay
> should remove that from the investigation, failing that check the
> grounds - everything else is built into the switch...
>

Thanks for the tip. How do I do this? I have identified pins 3 & 5 on the
relay that I think is the front wiper relay. Do I bridge the sockets for
these pins, using a bent paper clip with one end going into pin-socket 3
and the other end in pin-socket 5? Is that the way to do it?

Phil K

[Phil K]

Lee <cyber...@ukonline.net> wrote in
news:hcbuw.98403$FO6....@fx33.am4:


>

> Jumping pins 3 and 5 (switch contacts) of the wiper power supply relay
> should remove that from the investigation, failing that check the
> grounds - everything else is built into the switch...

[Phil K]

Phil K <p...@xxdd44.com> wrote in

news:XnsA42582FA...@130.133.4.11:

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <XnsA4258609...@130.133.4.11>,

The circuit as such isn't terribly complicated. The way Haynes have drawn
it - covering several variations - is. Still looking at it.

--
*Oh, what a tangled website we weave when first we practice *

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <XnsA42582FA...@130.133.4.11>,

Right.

The relay appears to supply power to the wiper circuit all the time the
ignition is on. So you should see 12v at what is labelled terminal 3 on it
in your diagram, with the ignition on. I've no idea if the terminal
markings on the actual relay correspond to the diagram ones, though.

To test that relay - again using the numbers on your diagram, connect your
DVM set to continuity to pins 3 and 5. Should be no continuity. Apply 12v
to pins 1&2, and the relay should make and the meter show continuity.

--
*Why don't sheep shrink when it rains?

[Phil K]

"Dave Plowman (News)" <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in

news:548767a...@davenoise.co.uk:

>> Thanks. While I have used a multi-meter for very basic tests, I'm not
>> really experienced enough to use it reliably for circuits of this type
>> of complexity.
>
> The circuit as such isn't terribly complicated. The way Haynes have drawn

> it - covering several variations - is. Still looking at it.

Much appreciated. It appears the far right section of the diagram applies
to my 2001 model. If the next step is to bridge two of the relay pins, to
eliminate the relay, can you confirm that it's pins 3 & 5 that I should
bridge? (I don't want to cause a short.)

Phil K

[Capitol]

Looks to me like the front and rear wiper relays are identical. Check
the part numbers and if so, just swap them over.

[Lee]

On 17/01/2015 12:02, Phil K wrote:

>
> Any suggestions? Thank you again.
>
> Phil K
>

The Nissan parts catalogue for the 2001 Tino shows both front and rear
wiper relays reside in the engine bay, drivers side, near the headlights.
Should be black with part number: 252309F905

[Lee]

Urgh, unless your car is an 1.8, in that case it's inside near the
electric window relay. Why do they do that?
What difference does engine size make to the positioning of relays?

[Phil K]

Lee <cyber...@ukonline.net> wrote in
news:4Rtuw.282486$BB2....@fx35.am4:

>> The Nissan parts catalogue for the 2001 Tino shows both front and
>> rear wiper relays reside in the engine bay, drivers side, near the
>> headlights.
>> Should be black with part number: 252309F905
>
>
> Urgh, unless your car is an 1.8, in that case it's inside near the
> electric window relay. Why do they do that?
> What difference does engine size make to the positioning of relays?

Lee - Thats very helpful - thanks! y Tino is the 1.8 petrol model. This
suggests that the relay I was identifying as the front wiper relay is
correct. It is right next to the window relay. (I identified the window
relay, because removing it stops the windows from working.)

So What I'd like to know is: how do I test the wiper relay? I cannot switch
the blue one with the black one (for testing purposes) because one has four
pins and the other has five.

Phil K

[Lee]

There should still be an identical rear wiper relay, it's not exactly
obvious where it is though, have you looked in the relay bracket near
the headlight? Otherwise same way, short the two contacts in the relay
socket* or use a DMM on the relay switch contacts and 12v on the relay
coil as someone else instructed.

A third way, is see if you can get the case of the relay, some come
apart quite easily, you can then see visually whether it's working or not.

*All you are doing is shorting the same two pins that the relay does,
but I understand that some may have reservations about doing that.

[Lee]

On 17/01/2015 14:38, Phil K wrote:
>

> So What I'd like to know is: how do I test the wiper relay? I cannot switch
> the blue one with the black one (for testing purposes) because one has four
> pins and the other has five.
>
> Phil K
>

Does this make any sense to anyone:
http://nissan4u.com/parts/almera_tino/el_v10m/2001_5/type_1/body_electrical/relay/illustration_2/

It looks like the rear one should be there, even if the front one is in
the internal relay bracket?

[Johny B Good]

Actually, that's exactly what you want to do, cause a short (but
_not_ in the _wrong_ place). :-)
--
J B Good

[Rod Speed]

"Lee" <cyber...@ukonline.net> wrote in message
news:4Rtuw.282486$BB2....@fx35.am4...

> On 17/01/2015 13:49, Lee wrote:
>> On 17/01/2015 12:02, Phil K wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Any suggestions? Thank you again.
>>>
>>> Phil K
>>>
>>
>> The Nissan parts catalogue for the 2001 Tino shows both front and rear
>> wiper relays reside in the engine bay, drivers side, near the headlights.
>> Should be black with part number: 252309F905

> Urgh, unless your car is an 1.8, in that case it's inside near the
> electric window relay. Why do they do that?

Because they are completely fucking hopeless.

> What difference does engine size make to the positioning of relays?

Presumably some engines are different size physically.

[Rod Speed]

Dave Plowman (News) <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>> Dave Plowman (News) <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote

>>>>> Do relays often go wrong,

>>>> They certainly can fail.

>>> That is not the same as 'often go wrong'.

>> Duh.

>>> Try understanding the post.

>> Understood the post fine.

> But then gave an unhelpful answer?

You're lying thru your teeth as you always do when you
have got done like a fucking dinner, as you always are.

>> I commented on where the problem
>> could be in the rest of my response that
>> you carefully deleted from the quoting

> I snipped the part with no useful information.

You're lying thru your teeth as you always do when you
have got done like a fucking dinner, as you always are.

<all the rest of your puerile shit any 2 year old
could leave for dead flushed where it belongs>

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <chvqbf...@mid.individual.net>,

Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > But then gave an unhelpful answer?

> You're lying thru your teeth as you always do when you
> have got done like a fucking dinner, as you always are.

You have all of four posts in this thread. None of which even attempt to
help with the problem.

QED.

--
*I went to school to become a wit, only got halfway through.

[Rod Speed]

"Dave Plowman (News)" <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:5487e09...@davenoise.co.uk...