Private Drainage - pros & cons
Neil Ware
looking to move into the country and so far have dismissed property
with private drainage, but as this restricts us we have decided to
reconsider them. What I'm interested in are pitfalls (and I don't
mean falling into one!), I can't think of any advantages but concerns
would be frequency of emptying, freezing, smells, blockages etc.
Any help, opinions and information much appreciated
Neil Ware
Holly
Neil Ware wrote in message <372c3de4...@news.demon.co.uk>...
>I'm after as much info and opinions as I can get on the subject. We're
>looking to move into the country and so far have dismissed property
>with private drainage, but as this restricts us we have decided to
>reconsider them. What I'm interested in are pitfalls (and I don't
>mean falling into one!), I can't think of any advantages but concerns
>would be frequency of emptying, freezing, smells, blockages etc.
>
had two houses with septic tanks and we renovated two cottages and used a
Biocycle system for them. No problems with freezing or smells, and only the
odd problem with blockages in pipework, which may well have occurred on
mains drainage too. The emptying factor depends on whether you have just a
cess pool, which has no drainage and therefore has to be emptied regularly,
or a septic tank with soak pit or percolation area. Our last house had a
soak pit which wasn't terribly effective so when the tank filled up we got
it emptied, about twice a year. This time we made a percolation area and
even though the tank becomes full so far the percolation area has worked
well and shows no signs of becoming a problem. There are various proprietary
systems for treating the effluent so that a smaller percolation area is
needed, and reed beds can also be used and are very effective.
Overall I personally wouldn't worry a bit about buying a house with private
drainage unless the garden was very small, which would restrict the options
available, or unless access to the tank was difficult for having it emptied.
Holly
Matt the Rat
>I'm after as much info and opinions as I can get on the subject. We're
>looking to move into the country and so far have dismissed property
>with private drainage, but as this restricts us we have decided to
>reconsider them. What I'm interested in are pitfalls (and I don't
>mean falling into one!), I can't think of any advantages but concerns
>would be frequency of emptying, freezing, smells, blockages etc.
If you have a search in www.dejanews.com you'll find plenty of discussion on
cess pits and septic tanks. They certainly don't seem any more troublesome
than a combi boiler for example (not that I've got either).
--
Matt the Rat
Reply to matt DOT helliwell AT net DOT ntl DOT com
Neil Ware
wrote:
>. They certainly don't seem any more troublesome
>than a combi boiler for example (not that I've got either).
hmmmm ... combi boilers eh, don't like the sound of that but I'll try
deja news, thanks
neil
Tony Williams
Matt the Rat <s...@sig.nospam> wrote:
> >I'm after as much info and opinions as I can get on the subject. We're
> >looking to move into the country and so far have dismissed property
> >with private drainage, but as this restricts us we have decided to
> >reconsider them. What I'm interested in are pitfalls (and I don't
> >mean falling into one!), I can't think of any advantages but concerns
> >would be frequency of emptying, freezing, smells, blockages etc.
> If you have a search in www.dejanews.com you'll find plenty of discussion on
> cess pits and septic tanks. They certainly don't seem any more troublesome
> than a combi boiler for example (not that I've got either).
KKKatie is the expert on septic tanks, hasn't she
written a FAQ somewhere?
We are on septic tank......
Pros; It's cheaper than being on mains drainage.
Cons; You have to get the tanker in every 12/24 months.
Yes it does smell like buggery, can be embarrassing
if you have other houses near.
You have to be *extremely* careful about not putting
various waste chemicals down, especially household
cleaners and disinfectants. If you do it kills all
the bugs in there and it stops working.
There will normally be an easement for the waste
foul water into a land drain, or something. These
can (will) block up and can be costly to renew.
Some builders put the septic tank in the daftest of
places, making it difficult for the tanker to get in.
Ours is about 30ft (yes 30ft) below road level, it
usually means an intermediate pump halfway up, and
the corresponding spillage of (umm) detritus as they
uncouple the hosepipes when finished.
A reasonably serious warning. Septic tanks are dangerous,
(I'm even afraid of falling into ours). I would avoid them
if I had small children.
--
Tony Williams.
Tony Polson
<to...@ledelec.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> We are on septic tank......
> Pros; It's cheaper than being on mains drainage.
> Cons; You have to get the tanker in every 12/24 months.
> Yes it does smell like buggery, can be embarrassing
> if you have other houses near.
> You have to be *extremely* careful about not putting
> various waste chemicals down, especially household
> cleaners and disinfectants. If you do it kills all
> the bugs in there and it stops working.
> There will normally be an easement for the waste
> foul water into a land drain, or something. These
> can (will) block up and can be costly to renew.
> Some builders put the septic tank in the daftest of
> places, making it difficult for the tanker to get in.
> Ours is about 30ft (yes 30ft) below road level, it
> usually means an intermediate pump halfway up, and
> the corresponding spillage of (umm) detritus as they
> uncouple the hosepipes when finished.
> A reasonably serious warning. Septic tanks are dangerous,
> (I'm even afraid of falling into ours). I would avoid them
> if I had small children.
Any badly designed foul drainage installation can cause problems like
those listed above. On the other hand, a well designed and installed
septic tank system will work just as well as any mains system.
There are some proprietary systems which are even better. The
Klargester system needs much less in the way of emptying because its
shape encourages better digestion of the solids. The resultant liquid
can then pass easily into the surrounding soil. Tanker visits can often
be much reduced. In some installations of which I am aware, tanker
visits were eliminated but I do not recommend this.
Have a look at Klargester units in the yard of your local builder's
merchant. They look just like large Orangina bottles. The instructions
for installation and use are usually stuck on the side and make
interesting reading for those so inclined!
A Klargester still needs a small soakaway but installation is far
quicker and easier (and thus cheaper) than a traditional tank and
soakaway system, making up for the price of the Klargester.
Plus ... you'd have to be really trying to fall into one. Look at the
diameter of the neck and you'll agree.
If you don't have a handy builder's merchant, Klargester have a web site
(http://www.klargester.co.uk/index.html) but it's very limited and a
phone call would probably be more useful; Tel: 01296 633000
Hope this helps!
--
Tony Polson, North Yorkshire, UK
sg
>I'm after as much info and opinions as I can get on the subject. We're
>looking to move into the country and so far have dismissed property
>with private drainage, but as this restricts us we have decided to
>reconsider them. What I'm interested in are pitfalls (and I don't
>mean falling into one!), I can't think of any advantages but concerns
>would be frequency of emptying, freezing, smells, blockages etc.
>
>Any help, opinions and information much appreciated
>
>Neil Ware
Ours is an old brick septic tank that hasn't been emptied in about 25
years (so we've been told........), we've been here two years with no
problems and no smells (I'm touching wood at this point........). I
had a look inside ours and it is getting quite near the top, so may
need emptying now. The things to watch out for are not to use bleach
and such like (there are alternatives) which may kill the friendly
bugs in the tank. In addition, I believe the more a tank is emptied,
the more it smells (the bugs have to start from scratch again !). We
also have a sink grunger in the kitchen which probably prevents any
major bloackages in the pipewrok (we have had none).
The other advantage is that we don't pay sewarage charges (in facat we
pay no water bill with the council tax as we also have a private water
supply).
Personally I wouldn't be too bothered - but make sure your solictor
checks the environmental laws - if the septic tank has an overflow
into a nearby stream or such like, there may be problems (legally)
Steve Gontarek
Roger Chapman
from s...@REMOVEcarnasserie.freeserve.co.uk (sg) contains these words:
>I had a look inside ours and it is getting quite near the top, so may
> need emptying now.
It is my understanding that the active chamber should always be 'near
the top' and have a crust to boot.
Roger
Kevin Myers
<to...@ledelec.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> We are on septic tank......
>
> Pros; It's cheaper than being on mains drainage.
>
> Cons; You have to get the tanker in every 12/24 months.
My understanding (and experience) is that if you have a properly functioning
septic tank it should not need emptying very often at all. We have three,
one of which has not been emptied for four years
> Yes it does smell like buggery, can be embarrassing
> if you have other houses near.
Again, as long as it's working well, it doesn't smell. Ours don't, even in
this climate (unless I've just got used to it <g>)
> You have to be *extremely* careful about not putting
> various waste chemicals down, especially household
> cleaners and disinfectants. If you do it kills all
> the bugs in there and it stops working.
This is right. Don't put too much gunk down there, or it won't work well and
probably will start to pong.
It is, of course, one more thing to add to the already long list of items
that have to be 'taken care of', so if I were looking for a house and I had
the choice of properly functioning, reliable mains drainage, I would go for
that rather than a private system. However if there was anything 'dodgy'
about the mains drains, then a septic tank could well be a good option,
specially if it's one of the modern fibre glass varieties. I imagine these
would be pretty foolproof.
--
Kevin Myers, Sisaket, Thailand
kevin...@unforgettable.com - http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Bay/7554/
Real men EAT spam!
Kevin Myers
wrote:
>Ours is an old brick septic tank that hasn't been emptied in about 25
>years (so we've been told........), we've been here two years with no
>problems and no smells (I'm touching wood at this point........). I
>had a look inside ours and it is getting quite near the top, so may
>need emptying now.
If it's a proper septic tank, as opposed to a cess pit, the level should be
constant.
What happens is the bacteria eat the waste products and produce a 'sludge'
which sinks to the bottom. It is the gap between the bottom level of the
'crust' (and floaty bits underneath it) and the (rising) sludge that you
have to watch.*
The water that comes out of the tank and goes to the drain field should come
out of this gap. So, if the thing is allowed to fill up with sludge, or dry
out significantly this is when you might have problems with the drain field
blocking.
There seems to be some difference of opinion about whether you need a crust
or not. AFAIK this will depend on whether the in feed is arranged to be
below or above the normal level. I have heard of successful arrangements of
both types. (All mine are above)
*not literally <g>
Paul Mc Cann
ne...@scalby.freeserve.co.uk says...
snip
>
> There are some proprietary systems which are even better. The
> Klargester system needs much less in the way of emptying because its
> shape encourages better digestion of the solids. The resultant liquid
> can then pass easily into the surrounding soil. Tanker visits can often
> be much reduced. In some installations of which I am aware, tanker
> visits were eliminated but I do not recommend this.
>
> Have a look at Klargester units in the yard of your local builder's
> merchant. They look just like large Orangina bottles. The instructions
> for installation and use are usually stuck on the side and make
> interesting reading for those so inclined!
>
> A Klargester still needs a small soakaway but installation is far
> quicker and easier (and thus cheaper) than a traditional tank and
> soakaway system, making up for the price of the Klargester.
> Plus ... you'd have to be really trying to fall into one. Look at the
> diameter of the neck and you'll agree.
snip
A lot of the success or failure of septic tank systems will depend on the
effectiveness of the soakaway system, the effectiveness of which, in
turn, will depend on the make up of the underlying ground.
About 3 feet down we have a layer of fairly water impervious soil/clay.
This seriously inhibits the effective operation of the soakaway as the
water table rises fairly easy.
A solution was suggested by local wisdom. However as it is not
technically correct or probably even acceptable by the local authority,
though it does work, I'm not at liberty to divulge it ;-(
--
Paul Mc Cann
Paul Mc Cann
s...@REMOVEcarnasserie.freeserve.co.uk says...
> ne...@wentwood.demon.co.uk (Neil Ware) wrote:
>
> >I'm after as much info and opinions as I can get on the subject. We're
> >looking to move into the country and so far have dismissed property
> >with private drainage, but as this restricts us we have decided to
> >reconsider them. What I'm interested in are pitfalls (and I don't
> >mean falling into one!), I can't think of any advantages but concerns
> >would be frequency of emptying, freezing, smells, blockages etc.
> >
> >Any help, opinions and information much appreciated
> >
> >Neil Ware
>
> years (so we've been told........), we've been here two years with no
> problems and no smells (I'm touching wood at this point........). I
> had a look inside ours and it is getting quite near the top,
snip
Don't want to spoil anyones supper but exactly what is getting near the
top. If it is fluid then that is only as it should be. Only if it is
solids, in the first chamber, will the tank possibly need emptying. With
septic tanks I would work very much on the principle of if it ain't broke
don't fix it. Some people seem to have septic tanks that never need
attention whereas we have to empty ours annually.
--
Paul Mc Cann
Tony Williams
Kevin Myers <kevin...@unforgettable.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 03 May 1999 23:30:05 +0100, Tony Williams
> <to...@ledelec.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > Cons; You have to get the tanker in every 12/24 months.
> My understanding (and experience) is that if you have a
> properly functioning septic tank it should not need emptying
> very often at all. We have three, one of which has not been
> emptied for four years.
Father in Laws's is the old-fashioned simple septic tank
(the stuff goes black) and that takes years before needing
to be emptied. Ours is the sealed "anaerobic" type. This
type seems to need emptying more often, or is maybe much
more sensitive to being damaged by household chemicals.
> > Yes it does smell like buggery, can be embarrassing
> > if you have other houses near.
> Again, as long as it's working well, it doesn't smell.
> Ours don't, even in this climate (unless I've just got
> used to it <g>)
I was referring to the smell when emptying, the products
from the anaerobic type smell awful (and I suspect are
more virulent than those from the old aerobic types).
--
Tony Williams.
Kevin Myers
<to...@ledelec.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Father in Laws's is the old-fashioned simple septic tank
> (the stuff goes black) and that takes years before needing
> to be emptied. Ours is the sealed "anaerobic" type. This
> type seems to need emptying more often, or is maybe much
> more sensitive to being damaged by household chemicals.
That's interesting. I've heard about the aerobic/anaerobic functions before,
but assumed that they just happened by themselves. Any more details?
> I was referring to the smell when emptying
Oh yes, when _emptying_ the tank arrange to go shopping!