Central Heating Pipes in Wall - how to avoid?
Bear
Positioned and fixed some shelves over the weekend. Before drilling,
scan with metal detector which went mad. Couldn't work out why but
subsequently drilled 2-3 inches away from any beeping. No problems.
Later check all the rads - all of which feed into the walls at the
centre of the rad - bingo must be central heating pipes. Since we
still have hot water (and I didn't get wet whilst drilling) looks like
I've been lucky (not tested the rads but since as I said, didn't get
wet can't see a problem).
Problem now is, metal detector only goes to depth of about 1 inch - so
if pipes are buried deeper, what's to stop me hitting them in future?
I have many pictures to hang and will undoubtedly want to position
shelves etc. in years to come.
I always thought central heating pipes went through the floor. This is
a 50's bungalow, recently rewired and central heating upgraded a few
years back with combi boiler - guess sticking them in the walls is
current practice. Daft if you ask me.
John
"Bear" <nmo...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:d4e13b82-a47f-43c0...@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
My combi is upstairs - so all pipes drop down the walls from above..
The Medway Handyman
> Yet another post (well this is a new house for me!)
>
> Positioned and fixed some shelves over the weekend. Before drilling,
> scan with metal detector which went mad. Couldn't work out why but
> subsequently drilled 2-3 inches away from any beeping. No problems.
Is it possible that the room has been plasterboarded via the dot & dab
method? This tends to confuse detectors - which are flakey anyway.
> Later check all the rads - all of which feed into the walls at the
> centre of the rad - bingo must be central heating pipes. Since we
> still have hot water (and I didn't get wet whilst drilling) looks like
> I've been lucky (not tested the rads but since as I said, didn't get
> wet can't see a problem).
Keep an eye on the combi presure guage, if it keeps dropping you might have
a problem.
If feeling brave, remove the screws one by one & see if you get squirted in
the eye!
> Problem now is, metal detector only goes to depth of about 1 inch - so
> if pipes are buried deeper, what's to stop me hitting them in future?
> I have many pictures to hang and will undoubtedly want to position
> shelves etc. in years to come.
New builds tend to use plastic pipes & should, repeat 'should' have metallic
tape over the pipes for the detector to pick up.
> I always thought central heating pipes went through the floor. This is
> a 50's bungalow, recently rewired and central heating upgraded a few
> years back with combi boiler - guess sticking them in the walls is
> current practice. Daft if you ask me.
Daft indeed. I've only drilled through one in 4 years though, despite using
2 different detectors.
--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
John Rumm
> I always thought central heating pipes went through the floor. This is
> a 50's bungalow, recently rewired and central heating upgraded a few
> years back with combi boiler - guess sticking them in the walls is
> current practice. Daft if you ask me.
A 50's place probably has solid floors. Means pipes dropping down from
the loft is the normal way forward in the circumstance.
--
Cheers,
John.
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YAPH
> I always thought central heating pipes went through the floor. This is
> a 50's bungalow, recently rewired and central heating upgraded a few
> years back with combi boiler - guess sticking them in the walls is
> current practice. Daft if you ask me.
Are your radiator pipes about 8 or 10mm diameter rather than 15 or even
22mm? If so you've got 'microbore' which is often run within the cavities
of stud walls, behind the plasterboard of dot+dab-ed walls or even in the
plaster course.
--
John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk
87.5% of statistics are made up
Roger Mills
John Rumm <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
> Bear wrote:
>
>> I always thought central heating pipes went through the floor. This
>> is a 50's bungalow, recently rewired and central heating upgraded a
>> few years back with combi boiler - guess sticking them in the walls
>> is current practice. Daft if you ask me.
>
> A 50's place probably has solid floors. Means pipes dropping down from
> the loft is the normal way forward in the circumstance.
>
Indeed. Even so, it's more usual to find them coming down the *surface* of
the wall (possibly boxed in) rather than being buried *in* the wall.
--
Cheers,
Roger
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Dave Plowman (News)
Roger Mills <watt....@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Indeed. Even so, it's more usual to find them coming down the *surface*
> of the wall (possibly boxed in) rather than being buried *in* the wall.
Only if you have no taste. ;-) Bit like surface wiring.
There are no pipes showing in this Victorian house anywhere - except of
course rad tails and those inside existing cupboards.
--
*Why do overlook and oversee mean opposite things? *
Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Bear
the eye!
As for unscrewing the screws I don't think this is necessary since if
the drill bit + wall plug didn't puncture the pipes, then the screw
certainly shouldn't have.
>Are your radiator pipes about 8 or 10mm diameter rather than 15 or even
22mm? If so you've got 'microbore' which is often run within the
cavities
of stud walls, behind the plasterboard of dot+dab-ed walls or even in
the
plaster course.
Not sure what dot and dabbed walls are, and no clue about microbore
(never even heard of it) but any visible pipes from radiators are
significantly thinner than in our older house which had a gravity fed
central heating systems. I would guess most are 8 or 10mm - the ones
for the heated towel rails definately are.
NT
Those are microbore. Ubore is bent rather than joined, so you cant
assume it will stick to straight lines. In fact, it wont.
A simple solution to your problem would be to use a (small) pointed
flat drill bit in a hand drill. These low performance bits will churn
through plaster quickly, but when they meet something that requires
real drilling performance they're crap, so your copper pipes will be
fairly safe. You can make such bits from unwanted or broken drill
bits.
http://www.wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Drill_bit
NT
The Medway Handyman
>> If feeling brave, remove the screws one by one & see if you get
>> squirted in the eye!
>
> As for unscrewing the screws I don't think this is necessary since if
> the drill bit + wall plug didn't puncture the pipes, then the screw
> certainly shouldn't have.
Prolly not, but if the wall is plasterboard the drill bit only punctures the
10 - 12mm board, the screw goes right through the plug & can puncture a pipe
BTDTGTTS
>
>> Are your radiator pipes about 8 or 10mm diameter rather than 15 or
>> even
> 22mm? If so you've got 'microbore' which is often run within the
> cavities
> of stud walls, behind the plasterboard of dot+dab-ed walls or even in
> the
> plaster course.
>
> Not sure what dot and dabbed walls are, and no clue about microbore
> (never even heard of it) but any visible pipes from radiators are
> significantly thinner than in our older house which had a gravity fed
> central heating systems. I would guess most are 8 or 10mm - the ones
> for the heated towel rails definately are.
Dot & dab is a method of quickly dry lining a wall. 'Dabs' of plasterboard
adhesive are 'dotted' onto the wall & the the plasterboard is basically
stuck on. This leaves a mixture of solid blobs of adhesive and voids, which
confuses the hell out of detectors.
Microbore is simply thinner tube 8mm or 10mm exactly as you describe & can
be copper or plastic.
Microbore pipes are sometimes laid behind the plasterboard to conceal them.
The Medway Handyman
> On 6 Jul,
> "The Medway Handyman" <davi...@nospamblueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Dot & dab is a method of quickly dry lining a wall. 'Dabs' of
>> plasterboard adhesive are 'dotted' onto the wall & the the
>> plasterboard is basically stuck on.
> ITYM dots are fixed to the wall with plasterboard adhesive and
> levelled. Dabs of adhesive are added between the dots, and the
> plasterboard applied and (temporarily) nailed to the dots. When the
> adhesive is set, the nails (which have a double head) are removed,
> and the joints taped and filled, together with the nail holes.
Never seen that done. What do you mean by 'dots'?
--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
> Alternatively the boards are skimmed.
>
>> This leaves a mixture of solid blobs of adhesive and voids, which
>> confuses the hell out of detectors.
>
> And cold bridges where the dabs are, but warmer than a conventionally
> plastered wall.
End of tether
--
For full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy/central-heating-pipes-in-wall-how-to-avoid-569224-.htm
Vir Campestris
> I recently had the aggravation of dot and dab plasterboard with 10mm
> plastic micro bore piping ‘somewhere’ behind it, move radiator across
> wall was the request, pipework was horizontal across wall at valve
> height toward a corner then it turned vertical somewhere’ near the
> corner, the pipes if gentle drilling for new rad fixing (fancy tall
> narrow radiator) would move aside safely but if enclosed in a’dab’ of
> board adhesive were undetectable plus the meandered up the wall in an
> approximate width of 14” so a minor disaster waiting for the unwary, a
> bit of metal tracer wire or similar would have saved hours of messing
> around, formerly I was an electrician and regulations are strict on
> cables straight up above or below outlets and protective metal covers
> too, so beware plastic pipes folks, it did occur an infra red imaging
> detector might help when the heating was still flowing to show hot areas
> but at hundreds of £££ not really an option for the average job
I've been close to that. I found where my radiator pipes were by the
simple method of mounting the wireless thermostat on top of them. It
didn't puncture the pipes, but it didn't work too well either!
(it turns out they run across the ceiling of the old part of the house,
down the wall, under the floor of the new extension, then to the
radiator on the opposite wall)
Andy
Brian Gaff (Sofa)
finding many years later on.
As for 12 year old posts, well it is home owners club, which as we know is
incapable of making the year of the original posting obvious or indeed
quoting in any meaningful way, nor does it warn that inlaid photos links get
lost on an ascii newsgroup. In my view the main problem is that the Usenet
committes have not banned this non complient website from having access.
Brian
--
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
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Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Vir Campestris" <vir.cam...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:stunrc$ubt$1...@dont-email.me...
>> I recently had the aggravation of dot and dab plasterboard with 10mm
>> plastic micro bore piping 'somewhere' behind it, move radiator across
>> wall was the request, pipework was horizontal across wall at valve height
>> toward a corner then it turned vertical somewhere' near the corner, the
>> pipes if gentle drilling for new rad fixing (fancy tall narrow radiator)
>> would move aside safely but if enclosed in a'dab' of board adhesive were
>> undetectable plus the meandered up the wall in an approximate width of
>> 14" so a minor disaster waiting for the unwary, a bit of metal tracer
>> wire or similar would have saved hours of messing around, formerly I was
>> an electrician and regulations are strict on cables straight up above or
>> below outlets and protective metal covers too, so beware plastic pipes
>> folks, it did occur an infra red imaging detector might help when the
Tricky Dicky
Richard
Andrew
Do metal detectors recognise this layer or not ?.
Andrew
Andrew
> central layer with 'plastic' inside and out. They respond strongly to
> my pipe detector set on 'metal'. There's almost certainly a brand or
> technical name for that design of pipe but I don't know it. Nor can I
> find a convincing image.
>
Speedfit claims to be 5 layers.
See the technical data here (it's long way down).
https://www.johnguest.com/speedfit/product/pipe-and-accessrories-us/barrier-pipe-in-lengths-2/