Mitre bond adhesive
The Medway Handyman
type where you spray an activator on one surface & glue to the other.
How strong are they on wood compared to say PVA?
--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
A.Lee
> Anyone had any experience with these 'instant' mitre bond adhesives? The
> type where you spray an activator on one surface & glue to the other.
>
> How strong are they on wood compared to say PVA?
Yes, pretty good.
I use it on pelmets/cornices in kitchens, and find it really good.
I dont think it is made for structural joints, but for trim pieces, it
is ideal.
Alan.
--
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.
Andrew May
> Anyone had any experience with these 'instant' mitre bond adhesives? The
> type where you spray an activator on one surface & glue to the other.
>
> How strong are they on wood compared to say PVA?
>
>
architraves. Not as strong as I had hoped but there is probably quite a
lot of leverage over that length.
Came back to it a couple of weeks ago to glue up some kitchen trim and
found the bottle of glue now solid. So, probably good if you are a
regular user but works out expensive for casual use.
Andrew
michael adams
"The Medway Handyman" <davidno-...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:N8Svo.29666$Im6....@newsfe13.ams2...
Nearly all two part glues will achieve a stronger
bond than PVA but they need to be mixed properly.
Using a spray looks to be little more
than a gimmick - which you pay extra for - to
attract people who can't be bothered to measure
out and mix the components by hand
It's hard to see how simply spraying hardener on
one surface and the adhesive on the other can be
guarenteed to achieve as satisfactory a mix as
mixing by hand unless both surfaces are
perfectly flat.
Again another point about most other two part
adhesives epoxy etc, plus cascamite type casein
glues which you need to mix with water, is that they
have gap filling properties. They set hard within a
short time without shrinking. So the two sufaces to be
glued don't need to meet up over their entire surfaces.
All PVA type glues will shrink to some extent
as they dry by the loss of moisture either to the
atmosphere by evaporation or soaking into the
wood. Whereas two part adhesives dry as result of a
chemical reaction which doesn't involve any loss
of moisture.
In other words where a one part PVA adhesive already
performs OK there's no reason to stop using the existing
product.
If something stronger is needed with or without gap filling
potential then there are better performing two part products
already available.
michael adams
...
>
>
>
>
Roger Mills
> Anyone had any experience with these 'instant' mitre bond adhesives? The
>
> How strong are they on wood compared to say PVA?
>
>
bedroom furniture etc. - but not designed for anything 'structural'.
I haven't actually tried it on mitred corners, but it's probably ok for
picture frames - and would save a lot of clamping up, needed with normal
glue.
It really is pretty instant - so you only have a few seconds in which to
adjust the position.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.
John Rumm
>
> How strong are they on wood compared to say PVA?
They are typically cyanocrylate (aka super glue) based products, usually
with a thickening agent added to make them more controllable. Hence they
share a similar strength i.e. very good in traction and bending, but
quite weak in shear. There is some debate whether the accelerators
weaken the final bond strength a little, but the gains in setting time
are quite dramatic.
--
Cheers,
John.
/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/
fred
<mjad...@onetel.net.uk> writes
>
>Nearly all two part glues will achieve a stronger
>bond than PVA but they need to be mixed properly.
>
>Using a spray looks to be little more
>than a gimmick - which you pay extra for - to
>attract people who can't be bothered to measure
>out and mix the components by hand
>
>It's hard to see how simply spraying hardener on
>one surface and the adhesive on the other can be
>guarenteed to achieve as satisfactory a mix as
>mixing by hand unless both surfaces are
>perfectly flat.
>
set in cyanoacrylates.
As stated on this one:
http://www.tooled-up.com/Product.asp?PID=160138
Much quicker than an epoxy 2 part.
--
fred
FIVE TV's superbright logo - not the DOG's, it's bollocks
chris French
<mjad...@onetel.net.uk> writes
>
>"The Medway Handyman" <davidno-...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:N8Svo.29666$Im6....@newsfe13.ams2...
>> Anyone had any experience with these 'instant' mitre bond adhesives? The
>> type where you spray an activator on one surface & glue to the other.
>>
>> How strong are they on wood compared to say PVA?
>>
>>
>> --
>> Dave - The Medway Handyman
>> www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
>
>
>Nearly all two part glues will achieve a stronger
>bond than PVA but they need to be mixed properly.
>
>Using a spray looks to be little more
>than a gimmick - which you pay extra for - to
>attract people who can't be bothered to measure
>out and mix the components by hand
>
>It's hard to see how simply spraying hardener on
>one surface and the adhesive on the other can be
>guarenteed to achieve as satisfactory a mix as
>mixing by hand unless both surfaces are
>perfectly flat.
>
It's presumably a cyanocrylate adhesive, aimed at setting very quickly,
with one part being the activator. Premixing it would work for an
'instant ' glue really.
>Again another point about most other two part
>adhesives epoxy etc, plus cascamite type casein
>glues which you need to mix with water, is that they
>have gap filling properties.
<snip>
>In other words where a one part PVA adhesive already
>performs OK there's no reason to stop using the existing
>product.
>
>If something stronger is needed with or without gap filling
>potential then there are better performing two part products
>already available.
The very quick setting properties can be an advantage for it's intended
use though.
As others have said, not very structural, but good for trims - I used it
for the plemt trims on a some fitted bedroom furniture and it worked
well.
--
Chris French
Man at B&Q
> "The Medway Handyman" <davidno-spam-l...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in messagenews:N8Svo.29666$Im6....@newsfe13.ams2...
So is this all theory, or have you actually tried the product referred
to?
It does what it says, very well too. Nor have I suffered from the glue
going off. I came back to a part used set 2 or 3 years after first
using it and it was fine.
MBQ
stuart noble
> It's presumably a cyanocrylate adhesive, aimed at setting very quickly,
> with one part being the activator. Premixing it would work for an
> 'instant ' glue really.
>
instant the accelerator is, even if it's simply sprayed in the general
vicinity of the glue. It obviously doesn't need to mix with it as such.
Andrew May
> More likely an activator rather than a hardener, v common for a quick
> set in cyanoacrylates.
>
> As stated on this one:
> http://www.tooled-up.com/Product.asp?PID=160138
>
Would the accelerator from that pack work with any cyanoacrylate glue
(eg superglue) or does it have to be the glue that comes in the pack?
michael adams
"Man at B&Q" <manat...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:dc6fcdbb-a2e9-49b6...@n26g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
- So is this all theory, or have you actually tried the product referred
- to?
I would never try and join mitres with an instant setting glue.
If it does what it says on the tin and really does set instantly.
I can't see really how you can possibly guarentee to align the
components correctly. The point about mitres is that you often have
to align the components satisfactorily in 3 dimensions. Not just so the
2 mitred surfaces meet satisafactorily.
Supposing you're gluing an architrave in situ around a door with this
stuff. 3 pieces. You have the upright in place. And are now going to
glue the cross piece. Now unless the wall around the door frame is
perfectly flat - which few are - then as soon as you glue the cross
piece on. then if theres any deviation in the wall behind i.e it isn't
perfectly flat the cross pice wont lie flat to the wall.
In fact if the wall bows out across from that corner its doubtful you
could glue the piece at all as you'd be unable to marry the mitred surfaces.
Whereas if the wall bows in then the frame will stick out from the wall
with even bigger problems to come on the right hand corner.
Given its an instant setting glue not only is there no room
for adjustment, but even if there was, as the adhesive has
no gap filling properties there's no scope to accomadate
any deviation in the wall at the joints as there otherwise
would be.
As to picture frame mitres - all four corners need to be
assembled clamped up and glued at the same time. Its impossible
to start at one corner and obtain so perfect an alignmnet that
the fourth piece can be guarenteed to fit.
- It does what it says, very well too.
Which particular type of mitre did you use it for?
- Nor have I suffered from the glue
- going off. I came back to a part used set 2 or 3 years after first
- using it and it was fine.
- MBQ
michael adams
...
fred
<andrew...@hotmail.com> writes
should be fairly self evident.
The accelerator I have used was for Loctite Tak Pak and had a kind of
sweet ester like smell:
On the loctite site the various cyanoacrylate products say use activator
x, y or z so it appears there is a difference but how marked it is I
don't know.
stuart noble
> As to picture frame mitres - all four corners need to be
> assembled clamped up and glued at the same time. Its impossible
> to start at one corner and obtain so perfect an alignmnet that
> the fourth piece can be guarenteed to fit.
But that's exactly how picture frames are assembled commercially, the
assumption being that the moulding is straight, that the two pairs are
identical, and the angles exactly 45. Why wouldn't it be perfect every
time?
The advantage with the super glue/ accelerator method is that you can
position the thing to be glued before you accelerate the set. IMO it's
only suitable for plastics though.
In the case of a door architrave, I prefer to assemble the 3 sides,
stapled across the mitres from the back, and offer that up to the frame.
Man at B&Q
> "Man at B&Q" <manatba...@hotmail.com> wrote in messagenews:dc6fcdbb-a2e9-49b6...@n26g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
Kitchen cornice and pelmet. I didn't have any alignment problems.
MBQ
michael adams
"stuart noble" <stuart...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:mZfwo.22714$Kb.2...@newsfe17.ams2...
>
> > As to picture frame mitres - all four corners need to be
> > assembled clamped up and glued at the same time. Its impossible
> > to start at one corner and obtain so perfect an alignmnet that
> > the fourth piece can be guarenteed to fit.
>
> But that's exactly how picture frames are assembled commercially,
Only when using purpose made jigs. And in a situation where material costs
i.e. waste aren't a big consideration.
> the
> assumption being that the moulding is straight, that the two pairs are
> identical, and the angles exactly 45. Why wouldn't it be perfect every
> time?
Because the assumption is that wood being an organic material, its dimensions
may alter over time even as a result of machining.
For starters its far easier to dry clamp a frame than to check it with
straight edges etc to make sure there's no twist.
(Or if supergluing on a jig in a factory environmemt just sling it in the bin)
Having dry clamped the frame to ensure a proper fit what possible purpose
is served by faffing about trying to superglue it ?
Just how many picture frames is anyone going to need from that one set
of clamps within the next 24 hours ?
> The advantage with the super glue/ accelerator method is that you can
> position the thing to be glued before you accelerate the set. IMO it's
> only suitable for plastics though.
Of all the possible joints a person could think of to use with superglue -
without the aid of positioning jigs a mitre joint is possibly the worst.
> In the case of a door architrave, I prefer to assemble the 3 sides,
> stapled across the mitres from the back, and offer that up to the frame.
The reason mitres require gluing at the visible joint rather than simply
stapling from behind, is because however accurately they may be cut, and however
good they look when new, mitres may open up over time, simply by virtue of
movement in the wood.
michael adams
...
stuart noble
>>> As to picture frame mitres - all four corners need to be
>>> assembled clamped up and glued at the same time. Its impossible
>>> to start at one corner and obtain so perfect an alignmnet that
>>> the fourth piece can be guarenteed to fit.
>>
>> But that's exactly how picture frames are assembled commercially,
>
> Only when using purpose made jigs. And in a situation where material costs
> i.e. waste aren't a big consideration.
No jigs other than a right angle. They are under pinned, one joint at a
time, without adhesive.
>
>
> The reason mitres require gluing at the visible joint rather than simply
> stapling from behind, is because however accurately they may be cut, and however
> good they look when new, mitres may open up over time, simply by virtue of
> movement in the wood.
>
>
And there's damn all you can do about mitres opening if the material
shrinks across the width. Effectively you no longer have 45 deg cuts, so
adhesive becomes irrelevant
chris French
<mjad...@onetel.net.uk> writes
>
>"Man at B&Q" <manat...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:dc6fcdbb-a2e9-49b6...@n26g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
>On Oct 21, 9:48 am, "michael adams" <mjadam...@onetel.net.uk> wrote:
>> "The Medway Handyman" <davidno-spam-l...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in
>messagenews:N8Svo.29666$Im6....@newsfe13.ams2...
>>
>> > Anyone had any experience with these 'instant' mitre bond adhesives? The
>> > type where you spray an activator on one surface & glue to the other.
>>
>> > How strong are they on wood compared to say PVA?
>>
>> > --
>> > Dave - The Medway Handyman
>> >www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
>>
>> Nearly all two part glues will achieve a stronger
>> bond than PVA but they need to be mixed properly.
>>
>> Using a spray looks to be little more
>> than a gimmick - which you pay extra for - to
>> attract people who can't be bothered to measure
>> out and mix the components by hand
>>
<dsnip>
>>
>> If something stronger is needed with or without gap filling
>> potential then there are better performing two part products
>> already available.
>
>- So is this all theory, or have you actually tried the product referred
>- to?
>
>I would never try and join mitres with an instant setting glue.
>
>If it does what it says on the tin and really does set instantly.
>
>I can't see really how you can possibly guarentee to align the
>components correctly. The point about mitres is that you often have
>to align the components satisfactorily in 3 dimensions. Not just so the
>2 mitred surfaces meet satisafactorily.
>Supposing you're gluing an architrave in situ around a door with this
>stuff.
It's not really the stuff for that, nor do I think it's sold as such,
nor is anyone suggesting her that you do.
>
>- It does what it says, very well too.
>
>Which particular type of mitre did you use it for?
>
Pelmets on the top of kitchen and fitted bedroom cupboards, where it
worked well/
--
Chris French
michael adams
Mitres can't open which are glued with Cascamite. Ever.
Nobody goes around with a protractor measuring angles, But you don't even
need to got to Specsavers to notice a gaping joint.
Bad.
Very, very, bad.
michael adams
...
>
michael adams
"chris French" <newspos...@familyfrench.co.uk> wrote in message
news:MMtK1uHz...@blackhole.familyfrench.co.uk...
> >Which particular type of mitre did you use it for?
> >
>
> Pelmets on the top of kitchen and fitted bedroom cupboards, where it
> worked well/
Fairy nuff. Two or three visible angles at most, front and sides.
michael adams
> --
> Chris French
>
stuart noble
> Mitres can't open which are glued with Cascamite. Ever.
>
of 17% (i.e. typical joinery quality softwood). Place frame in a
centrally heated environment and within a few weeks you are guaranteed
to have 5mm gaps on the inside (but not the outside) of all the mitres.
That's because the wood is now narrower and the angles are therefore no
longer 45 degs.
You can either take the frame apart and re-cut the mitres or use a dryer
material in the first place, but they can never be clamped tight. Ever.