Samsung LCD TV connection to Panasonic Sound Bar problem troubleshooting

[ianp...@googlemail.com]

Hello,

Using the above combination the sound emanating from the soundbar cuts
off about 5-10 mins after power up. (After re-setting it occurs at
relatively infrequent random times thereafter)
Initially I thought this was a problem of compatibilty of the HDMI-CEC
system implemetation so have eliminated this by turning off such links
in both devices and making the connection SOLELY by the optical cable.
The problem persists.
The TV's internal speakers are not affected (so it's not the TV's
source connection that is faulty).

Now, when the sound bar output has silenced I can re-instate it by :
1) power cycling the TV or
2) power cycling the sound bar or
3) selecting - on the sound bar- a different input for a moment and
then re-selecting the TV as the source.

I have tried this with a friend's identical sound bar and the problem
is the same. (So, it's not the soundbar or cable)
I have tried feeding the sound bar directly from the TV's source, an
elderly Sky+ box and the problem does NOT occur. (Confirms to me that
soundbar and cable are OK)

At this point, I conclude that the TV's optical (and HDMI-ARC) outputs
are at fault.......BUT....

What has got me really confused is that I BELIEVE (and this has been
corroborated by both the retailer's and manufacturer's technical
support people) that the optical link is uni-directional from TV to
sound bar.
So, how does cycling the soundbar re-instate the sound?
Am I being misled by the thought that the optical cable works
uni-directionally or is there some signalling from soundbar to TV?

I'm sure someone out there will be able to help me. I have a member of
the retailer's troubleshooting team coming in a couple of days but
would like to understand the problem myself beforehand if possible.

Oh, two other facts...if I watch the TV using it's built in tuner the
problem has not yet manifested itself. The old Sky+ box is connected
via a SCART to HDMI adaptor (supplied with the TV)
Please reply to group - email address is not monitored
Ian

[Andy Cap]

On 12/03/13 12:40, ianp...@googlemail.com wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Using the above combination the sound emanating from the soundbar cuts
> off about 5-10 mins after power up. (After re-setting it occurs at
> relatively infrequent random times thereafter)
> Initially I thought this was a problem of compatibilty of the HDMI-CEC
> system implemetation so have eliminated this by turning off such links
> in both devices and making the connection SOLELY by the optical cable.
> The problem persists.

<SNIP>

Well I can't pretend to be an expert but I've had a somewhat similar
experience with my Samsung TV. Initially I bought a Boston Accoustics
Sound bar and it would intermittently swap inputs. Simply cycling the
input back to the TV solved the problem. The retailer was very
co-operative and readily swapped it with another. This did exactly the
same thing! A look on the internet indicated others had experienced this
with the Boston but the retailer said they had received no reports and
there must be a problem with my set-up. Despite that I paid another
£100+ for a Yamaha YAS-201 and have had no further problems. In fact I'm
delighted because it has a far better build quality, though only two
optical inputs, which I've overcome by buying a phono/optical converter
which works well enough. Perhaps none of this has any bearing on your
case but it does all seem to point to a compatibility issue with some
(Samsung?) gear.

Andy C

Apologies for replying to email address, b****y Thunderbird !

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 12/03/13 12:40, ianp...@googlemail.com wrote:

sound bar is wedged sofwtare wise and resetting either its input by
cylcing the TV or cycling it itself results in restoration..

> Am I being misled by the thought that the optical cable works
> uni-directionally or is there some signalling from soundbar to TV?
>
> I'm sure someone out there will be able to help me. I have a member of
> the retailer's troubleshooting team coming in a couple of days but
> would like to understand the problem myself beforehand if possible.
>
> Oh, two other facts...if I watch the TV using it's built in tuner the
> problem has not yet manifested itself. The old Sky+ box is connected
> via a SCART to HDMI adaptor (supplied with the TV)

THAT is WEIRD.

> Please reply to group - email address is not monitored
> Ian
>

--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

[Dave Liquorice]

On Tue, 12 Mar 2013 12:40:43 +0000, ianp...@googlemail.com wrote:

> Now, when the sound bar output has silenced I can re-instate it by :
> 1) power cycling the TV or
> 2) power cycling the sound bar or
> 3) selecting - on the sound bar- a different input for a moment and
> then re-selecting the TV as the source.
>
> I have tried this with a friend's identical sound bar and the problem
> is the same. (So, it's not the soundbar or cable)

Sort of indicates it's not a physical fault with the soundbar but it
could be a firmware fault.

> I have tried feeding the sound bar directly from the TV's source, an
> elderly Sky+ box and the problem does NOT occur. (Confirms to me that
> soundbar and cable are OK)

And that the data steam from the Skybox is OK.

> So, how does cycling the soundbar re-instate the sound?

It reboots it... Power cycling the telly also makes the bar resync with
the optical and/or HDMI-ARC data.

> Am I being misled by the thought that the optical cable works
> uni-directionally or is there some signalling from soundbar to TV?

Pretty sure TOSLink is one way only. HDMI chatters away in both
directions.

> Oh, two other facts...if I watch the TV using it's built in tuner the
> problem has not yet manifested itself. The old Sky+ box is connected
> via a SCART to HDMI adaptor (supplied with the TV)

Looks to me like the TV (or the SCART to HDMI convertor) is introducing a
glitch or data error into the audio stream which is causing the soundbar
to get confused and mute.

It would be normal to connect the Sky Box to the sound bar via HDMI and
the sound bar to the telly also via HDMI. The HDMI sorts out what audio
to use depending on the source selected on the telly, at least it does
here... If I select anything but the HDMI input that the speakers use the
speakers use the HDMI-ARC from the telly, select the HDMI "speakers" as a
source (in our case really a Bluray) they take the direct multichannel
sound from the Bluray. Do it box to telly to speakers, you only get
stereo out of the speakers. Well ish the internal tuners can give
multichannel down the ARC but anything else (and the optical all the
time) is 2 channel only.

--
Cheers
Dave.

[Brian Gaff]

So, if the input to the bar is silent for the time noted, I assume it turns
off until some input is changed? Could be something as simple as a badly set
output level though how you would get this via the connectors you are using
is not really clear.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Andy Cap" <snruwf...@trashmail.net> wrote in message
news:ndGdnd-fv9XdsaLM...@brightview.co.uk...

[ianp...@googlemail.com]

Aha, the missing link in my logic is explained. I can now see it is
entirely possible for the TV's OUTPUT to continue but the sound bar's
INPUT to drop out for a reason related to the TV output. And cycling
either unit can initiate the restoration of the link. I'm clear on
that now. The result is that neither the soundbar nor TV are
necessarily faulty but really just incompatible. Hence, a replacement
TV (under warranty) may well not solve the problem. I'm sure the
retailer's specialist will come to this conclusion so I'm pleased I've
got the understanding clear before he arrives. Thanks.

Now I can' t _presently_ connect as I think you are suggesting 'cos
there is no HDMI from the old Sky+ box....and the optical output
introduces unacceptable lip-sync problems. However, a newer SkyHD+ box
would allow this, I believe. It would also eliminate the possibilty of
the glitch being sourced by the SCART/HDMI convertor.

If I can just confirm my understanding?......
I think you are saying that you actively select (on the sound bar)
your Bluray when needed but when you deselect that input the soundbar
uses whatever sound accompanies the source selected for the TV input.
If I've got that right I can see - subject to new Sky box - that that
would work in my case. I also have an old DVD recorder/player (used
exclusively for archiving TV progs) connected to TV via composite.
So, I'm thinking rather than replacement TV unit, or soundbar, an
upgrade to the Sky box may be the best way forward.

Thanks Dave - and all the other responders. help was gratefully
received

[michael adams]

<ianp...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:1rjuj8heardop8vkd...@4ax.com...

>

> The result is that neither the soundbar nor TV are necessarily faulty
> but really just incompatible. Hence, a replacement TV (under warranty)
> may well not solve the problem

As Samsung market their own soundbars, its doubtful if incompatability
with 3rd party equipment would qualify you for a replacement under
warranty in any case.

> Now I can' t _presently_ connect as I think you are suggesting 'cos
> there is no HDMI from the old Sky+ box....and the optical output
> introduces unacceptable lip-sync problems.

I assume you're aware that on many Samsung TV's its possible to
adjust the lip synch under -

Sound Settings\additional settings\SPDIF Output\Audio Delay
(or similar) with a range of 250 mseconds


michael adams

...

[Dave Liquorice]

On Tue, 12 Mar 2013 16:26:55 +0000, ianp...@googlemail.com wrote:

> The result is that neither the soundbar nor TV are necessarily faulty
> but really just incompatible.

Well ish, "incompatible" is rather to strong a word IMHO. If that was the
case it wouldn't work at all, produce digital hash or break up badly.
They are talking the same but just occasionally a word is dropped in by
one that completly confuses the other.

> However, a newer SkyHD+ box would allow this, I believe. It would also
> eliminate the possibilty of the glitch being sourced by the SCART/HDMI
> convertor.

Yep anything domestic HD has to have HDMI as that is the only domestic
format that can link bits of kit at HD.

> I think you are saying that you actively select (on the sound bar)
> your Bluray when needed but when you deselect that input the soundbar
> uses whatever sound accompanies the source selected for the TV input.

In my case I don't have to fiddle with the speakers at all, they power
up/down with the TV, the TV's remote will adjust the volume. I think
their default power on is to their HDMI 1 input where the Bluray is
connected. If the TV's HDMI input that the speakers are plugged into is
selected as a TV source then the speakers switch to the sound that is
passing through them, otherwise they take the HDMI-ARC from the telly.
TBH I'm quite surprise how well the things talk to each other over the
HDMI, it all "just works" with no silly if you want X you need to do Z
and Y, the for B, Y with U etc...

> So, I'm thinking rather than replacement TV unit, or soundbar, an
> upgrade to the Sky box may be the best way forward.

It would be a way forward, might be worth trying to borrow a sky box with
HDMI out just to check.

--
Cheers
Dave.

[ianp...@googlemail.com]

On Tue, 12 Mar 2013 17:05:29 -0000, "michael adams"
<mjad...@ukonline.co.uk> wrote:

>
><ianp...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
>news:1rjuj8heardop8vkd...@4ax.com...
>>
>
>> The result is that neither the soundbar nor TV are necessarily faulty
>> but really just incompatible. Hence, a replacement TV (under warranty)
>> may well not solve the problem
>
>As Samsung market their own soundbars, its doubtful if incompatability
>with 3rd party equipment would qualify you for a replacement under
>warranty in any case.
>

Well, that would be fair. I wouldn't want a replacement if it does the
same, would I?

>> Now I can' t _presently_ connect as I think you are suggesting 'cos
>> there is no HDMI from the old Sky+ box....and the optical output
>> introduces unacceptable lip-sync problems.
>
>I assume you're aware that on many Samsung TV's its possible to
>adjust the lip synch under -
>
>Sound Settings\additional settings\SPDIF Output\Audio Delay
>(or similar) with a range of 250 mseconds
>

Thanks,yes,I had seen this but the point is that I need the audio
delay when connecting the soundbar directly from the Sky box....and it
ain't got an adjustment.
>
>michael adams
>
>...

[ianp...@googlemail.com]

So, the retailer's Samsung approved professional visited yesterday.
He insisted that the TV's sound setting should be "TV speakers" rather
than "External Speakers" which seemed illogical to me. On being asked
where the outputs which were controlled by the TV when in "External
Speaker" mode were, he pointed to the 'Audio In' phonos and continued
to maintain that the 3 phonos for component video also carried audio -
until , when proving this to me by removing the audio in cables, the
TV fell silent!
However, on changing the TV setting to 'use' TV speakers the problem
appeared to have been solved. Unfortunately, after he had left and
after approx 90 mins viewing the sound cut off again....and again.

Hence, I'm back to square one and haven't got a 'professional' to help
me any more. I've now asked the retailer who supplied the TV for a
replacement.

I have also researched the possibilty of getting a Sky+HD box so that
the TV's input can be HDMI rather than SCART. It seems that a lot of
people consider that SD pictures from an HD box are far inferior to
those from an SD only box.
Is this the view of contributors hereabouts, please?

I'd also like to correct an item in my original post (highlighted by
TNP's entirely appropriate "WIERD" remark) The SCART input to the TV
is converted not to HDMI as my origianl post stated but to an
"Ext(RGB)" connection - which does look a bit like an HDMI but, of
course, isn't. My apologies.