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Telegraph pole stay
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Mike Barnes
Jan 23, 2014, 11:57:27 AM1/23/14
to
Possibly DIY, possibly not. :-)
There's a BT telegraph pole adjacent to my house. It is supported by a
stay which is anchored on my land. The anchor is in the middle of an
area that I want to use for wheelie bins.
Photo: https://www.dropbox.com/s/zzywbriq8zfsx6p/BT%20pole.jpg
Close-up: https://www.dropbox.com/s/bjsnv6iouq99d13/BT%20anchor.jpg
I'd like the anchor moved back away from the road, as close as possible
to the wall, to make way for the wheelie bin park. The ground level
would be dropped a few inches as well.
The pole was replaced about 15 years ago. BT didn't ask us whether they
could put that stay there, they just went and did it. They could be
forgiven for assuming that that land was part of the public highway, but
it isn't. They aren't making any wayleave payments. We didn't take much
notice in the past because this was just a piece of waste land as far we
were concerned, but now we've got a sizeable collection of wheelie bins
it's suddenly become useful.
So, does anyone know what's underneath there? Is there any experience or
knowledge in the group concerning the procedure for getting such an
anchor moved?
--
Mike Barnes
There's a BT telegraph pole adjacent to my house. It is supported by a
stay which is anchored on my land. The anchor is in the middle of an
area that I want to use for wheelie bins.
Photo: https://www.dropbox.com/s/zzywbriq8zfsx6p/BT%20pole.jpg
Close-up: https://www.dropbox.com/s/bjsnv6iouq99d13/BT%20anchor.jpg
I'd like the anchor moved back away from the road, as close as possible
to the wall, to make way for the wheelie bin park. The ground level
would be dropped a few inches as well.
The pole was replaced about 15 years ago. BT didn't ask us whether they
could put that stay there, they just went and did it. They could be
forgiven for assuming that that land was part of the public highway, but
it isn't. They aren't making any wayleave payments. We didn't take much
notice in the past because this was just a piece of waste land as far we
were concerned, but now we've got a sizeable collection of wheelie bins
it's suddenly become useful.
So, does anyone know what's underneath there? Is there any experience or
knowledge in the group concerning the procedure for getting such an
anchor moved?
--
Mike Barnes
Jim K
Jan 23, 2014, 12:59:26 PM1/23/14
to
AIUI Bt don't need wayleaves nor do they pay for poles etc.
Elec companies do.
Expect a phenomenal "quote" for them to do it
Jim K
Elec companies do.
Expect a phenomenal "quote" for them to do it
Jim K
The Natural Philosopher
Jan 23, 2014, 1:33:12 PM1/23/14
to
I mean what is involved beyond a big hole full of concrete with a screw
eye embedded in it and some cable and a tensioner any ships chandler
will sell you...
> Jim K
>
--
Ineptocracy
(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.
Adrian
Jan 23, 2014, 1:45:18 PM1/23/14
to
On Thu, 23 Jan 2014 18:33:12 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> AIUI Bt don't need wayleaves nor do they pay for poles etc.
They certainly do - provided it supplies other premises. If it's just
>> AIUI Bt don't need wayleaves nor do they pay for poles etc.
you, they don't.
If the pole's also electricity, then the electric wayleave covers it.
>> Elec companies do.
>>
>> Expect a phenomenal "quote" for them to do it
> Or do it yourself and look puzzled if anyone mentions it.
> I mean what is involved beyond a big hole full of concrete with a screw
> eye embedded in it and some cable and a tensioner any ships chandler
> will sell you...
by Western Power this week - the stay bases are buried about 2m down. THe
end has a plate on it, and is slotted through a hole in a ~2m length of
thick wood or resin (think thin railway sleeper, and you're not far off).
Big deep hole dug, lob the base down, backfill. Job jobbed.
One of the poles (12m, 400kg of transformer hanging from it) went down a
hole dug with a JCB bucket. The other (10m, just wires) went down a hole
drilled with an augur on a minidigger. Both had about 2m underground.
Again, no concrete. The old poles they removed (installed 1960s) didn't
have any concrete, either - they were just wiggled then yanked out with a
JCB.
Jim K
Jan 23, 2014, 1:48:44 PM1/23/14
to
On Thursday, January 23, 2014 6:33:12 PM UTC, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 23/01/14 17:59, Jim K wrote:
>
> > AIUI Bt don't need wayleaves nor do they pay for poles etc.
>
> >
>
> > Elec companies do.
>
> >
>
> > Expect a phenomenal "quote" for them to do it
>
> Or do it yourself and look puzzled if anyone mentions it.
> I mean what is involved beyond a big hole full of concrete with a screw
> eye embedded in it and some cable and a tensioner any ships chandler
> will sell you...
>
cherry picker possibly, wrangling thick cables definitely, Fing it up and/or getting rumbled - probably...
> On 23/01/14 17:59, Jim K wrote:
>
> > AIUI Bt don't need wayleaves nor do they pay for poles etc.
>
> >
>
> > Elec companies do.
>
> >
>
> > Expect a phenomenal "quote" for them to do it
>
> Or do it yourself and look puzzled if anyone mentions it.
> I mean what is involved beyond a big hole full of concrete with a screw
> eye embedded in it and some cable and a tensioner any ships chandler
> will sell you...
>
mmm take some pics (but digitise your face if you post em up ;>)))
Jim K
Steve
Jan 23, 2014, 1:50:20 PM1/23/14
to
Mike Barnes brought next idea :
This is the type of thing BT use http://tinyurl.com/ol2m8uy but BT ones
are about 5ft long - so no, they won't move it over a few inches for
you, or if they do, be prepared for a *very* big bill!
are about 5ft long - so no, they won't move it over a few inches for
you, or if they do, be prepared for a *very* big bill!
stuart noble
Jan 23, 2014, 1:56:54 PM1/23/14
to
scaffolding I was considering. No argument, and it took them an hour at
most. Certainly not a d-i-y job
Peter Crosland
Jan 23, 2014, 2:12:22 PM1/23/14
to
On 23/01/2014 16:57, Mike Barnes wrote:
damage to BT plant but I am sure they can tell you who to contact.
0800 0232023
--
Peter Crosland
Mike Barnes
Jan 23, 2014, 2:26:59 PM1/23/14
to
Adrian wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Jan 2014 18:33:12 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>>> AIUI Bt don't need wayleaves nor do they pay for poles etc.
>
> They certainly do - provided it supplies other premises.
It does supply other premises.
> On Thu, 23 Jan 2014 18:33:12 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>>> AIUI Bt don't need wayleaves nor do they pay for poles etc.
>
> They certainly do - provided it supplies other premises.
> If the pole's also electricity, then the electric wayleave covers it.
photo. Its predecessor had a stay in our garden, but the current one
doesn't. We get still wayleave payments, though. :-)
I'm puzzled by the logic of having just one stay on the telegraph pole.
The pull from the phone cables is pretty symmetrical and it seems odd to
restrain the pole in only one direction.
--
Mike Barnes
Dave Liquorice
Jan 23, 2014, 2:53:08 PM1/23/14
to
On Thu, 23 Jan 2014 16:57:27 +0000, Mike Barnes wrote:
> The pole was replaced about 15 years ago. BT didn't ask us whether they
> could put that stay there, they just went and did it. They could be
> forgiven for assuming that that land was part of the public highway, but
> it isn't.
Are you 100% sure that your boundary is the edge of the road? Looking
> The pole was replaced about 15 years ago. BT didn't ask us whether they
> could put that stay there, they just went and did it. They could be
> forgiven for assuming that that land was part of the public highway, but
> it isn't.
at the GV I'd assume that the boundary is the face of the wall/gate
pillar, that appears to align with the hedge row, leaving a verge
along the road.
The cobbles and edging don't mean that bit of land is yours it's no
different to a droppped kerb and access slope across the public
pavement in an urban area.
As others have said if the poles only serves you expect a large bill
if it serves others probably no bill *if* the agree to move/remove
it.
--
Cheers
Dave.
Brian Gaff
Jan 23, 2014, 3:05:04 PM1/23/14
to
You missed the trick of sabotage during the bad storms then.
Brian
--
Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email.
graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email: bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"Jim K" <jk98...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:b4fd82ee-28fa-4123...@googlegroups.com...
Brian
--
Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email.
graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email: bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"Jim K" <jk98...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:b4fd82ee-28fa-4123...@googlegroups.com...
Mike Barnes
Jan 23, 2014, 3:15:04 PM1/23/14
to
Dave Liquorice wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Jan 2014 16:57:27 +0000, Mike Barnes wrote:
>
>> The pole was replaced about 15 years ago. BT didn't ask us whether they
>> could put that stay there, they just went and did it. They could be
>> forgiven for assuming that that land was part of the public highway, but
>> it isn't.
>
> Are you 100% sure that your boundary is the edge of the road? Looking
> at the GV I'd assume that the boundary is the face of the wall/gate
> pillar, that appears to align with the hedge row, leaving a verge
> along the road.
Not 100%, no, but I don't know how you'd determine that with complete
> On Thu, 23 Jan 2014 16:57:27 +0000, Mike Barnes wrote:
>
>> The pole was replaced about 15 years ago. BT didn't ask us whether they
>> could put that stay there, they just went and did it. They could be
>> forgiven for assuming that that land was part of the public highway, but
>> it isn't.
>
> Are you 100% sure that your boundary is the edge of the road? Looking
> at the GV I'd assume that the boundary is the face of the wall/gate
> pillar, that appears to align with the hedge row, leaving a verge
> along the road.
accuracy and reliability. FWIW the cobbles you see at bottom left are
continuous all the way across the front of the property, and well behind
the wall - but they're not ancient.
One of the reasons for contemplating a DIY solution is to avoid opening
that particular can of worms.
--
Mike Barnes
Jim K
Jan 23, 2014, 4:01:41 PM1/23/14
to
Peter Crosland
Has provided the answer (perhaps unwillingly)...y
...Angle grinder!!
Jim K
Has provided the answer (perhaps unwillingly)...y
...Angle grinder!!
Jim K
Jim K
Jan 23, 2014, 4:02:57 PM1/23/14
to
Doh unwillingly = unwittingly
Feckin smart phones grrr
Jim K
Feckin smart phones grrr
Jim K
Tim Lamb
Jan 23, 2014, 5:03:15 PM1/23/14
to
In message <bkdbql...@mid.individual.net>, Mike Barnes
<mikeba...@gmail.com> writes
hence not private land. When we bought the land here, one of my most
rewarding activities was to extract a *one off* payment from their
wayleaves dept. for buried cables, stays and poles.
As discussed, they won't pay if the pole only serves your dwelling and
will argue strenuously that the placing is highway land.
seek help from the *Land Charges* dept. of my County Council for a fee
of £35.00.
FYI contact point... BT Wayleave Scanning Office, Post Point 110N,
Communications House, Harlescott Lane, Shrewsbury, SY1 3AQ
>
--
Tim Lamb
<mikeba...@gmail.com> writes
>Dave Liquorice wrote:
>> On Thu, 23 Jan 2014 16:57:27 +0000, Mike Barnes wrote:
>>
>>> The pole was replaced about 15 years ago. BT didn't ask us whether they
>>> could put that stay there, they just went and did it. They could be
>>> forgiven for assuming that that land was part of the public highway, but
>>> it isn't.
>>
>> Are you 100% sure that your boundary is the edge of the road? Looking
>> at the GV I'd assume that the boundary is the face of the wall/gate
>> pillar, that appears to align with the hedge row, leaving a verge
>> along the road.
>
>Not 100%, no, but I don't know how you'd determine that with complete
>accuracy and reliability. FWIW the cobbles you see at bottom left are
>continuous all the way across the front of the property, and well
>behind the wall - but they're not ancient.
The usual assumption by BT is that the verge is part of the highway and
>> On Thu, 23 Jan 2014 16:57:27 +0000, Mike Barnes wrote:
>>
>>> The pole was replaced about 15 years ago. BT didn't ask us whether they
>>> could put that stay there, they just went and did it. They could be
>>> forgiven for assuming that that land was part of the public highway, but
>>> it isn't.
>>
>> Are you 100% sure that your boundary is the edge of the road? Looking
>> at the GV I'd assume that the boundary is the face of the wall/gate
>> pillar, that appears to align with the hedge row, leaving a verge
>> along the road.
>
>Not 100%, no, but I don't know how you'd determine that with complete
>accuracy and reliability. FWIW the cobbles you see at bottom left are
>continuous all the way across the front of the property, and well
>behind the wall - but they're not ancient.
hence not private land. When we bought the land here, one of my most
rewarding activities was to extract a *one off* payment from their
wayleaves dept. for buried cables, stays and poles.
As discussed, they won't pay if the pole only serves your dwelling and
will argue strenuously that the placing is highway land.
>
>One of the reasons for contemplating a DIY solution is to avoid opening
>that particular can of worms.
Where a stretch of verge in my ownership was disputed, I was able to
>One of the reasons for contemplating a DIY solution is to avoid opening
>that particular can of worms.
seek help from the *Land Charges* dept. of my County Council for a fee
of £35.00.
FYI contact point... BT Wayleave Scanning Office, Post Point 110N,
Communications House, Harlescott Lane, Shrewsbury, SY1 3AQ
>
--
Tim Lamb
Mike Barnes
Jan 23, 2014, 5:44:37 PM1/23/14
to
shortly and he has bags of experience and might be able to contribute
something as well. This thread has helped prepare me - thanks to all.
--
Mike Barnes
tony sayer
Jan 23, 2014, 5:52:07 PM1/23/14
to
In article <bkdbql...@mid.individual.net>, Mike Barnes
<mikeba...@gmail.com> scribeth thus
Are the cables coming from the one direction?.
If so the stay should be on the opposite side.
Are the cables coming from the one direction opposite the stay and then
carrying on in the stay side direction ?.
Do the cables off the pole go in all directions is it a distribution
pole?.
--
Tony Sayer
.
<mikeba...@gmail.com> scribeth thus
If so the stay should be on the opposite side.
Are the cables coming from the one direction opposite the stay and then
carrying on in the stay side direction ?.
Do the cables off the pole go in all directions is it a distribution
pole?.
--
Tony Sayer
.
Artic
Jan 23, 2014, 9:32:16 PM1/23/14
to
Mike Barnes scribbled...
Unless you've got the worlds largest bin collection, WTF don't you put
them between the pole and where the cable goes into the ground?
You appear to live on a country lane, so I can't see anyone having a
problem with you flattening out an area there, and as you claim to own
that bit of verge (which I doubt) you can do what you like anyway.
them between the pole and where the cable goes into the ground?
You appear to live on a country lane, so I can't see anyone having a
problem with you flattening out an area there, and as you claim to own
that bit of verge (which I doubt) you can do what you like anyway.
j...@mdfs.net
Jan 23, 2014, 9:39:38 PM1/23/14
to
Mike Barnes wrote:
> > Are you 100% sure that your boundary is the edge of the road?
>
> > Are you 100% sure that your boundary is the edge of the road?
>
> Not 100%, no, but I don't know how you'd determine that with complete
> accuracy and reliability.
Deeds. Not the location map, which is just indicates whereabouts
> accuracy and reliability.
the plot is, but the *written* section and any boundaries/meering
map - which most deeds don't have.
jgh
Mike Barnes
Jan 24, 2014, 2:27:25 AM1/24/14
to
Artic wrote:
> Mike Barnes scribbled...
>
>>
>> Possibly DIY, possibly not. :-)
>>
>> There's a BT telegraph pole adjacent to my house. It is supported by a
>> stay which is anchored on my land. The anchor is in the middle of an
>> area that I want to use for wheelie bins.
>>
>> Photo: https://www.dropbox.com/s/zzywbriq8zfsx6p/BT%20pole.jpg
>> Close-up: https://www.dropbox.com/s/bjsnv6iouq99d13/BT%20anchor.jpg
>>
>> I'd like the anchor moved back away from the road, as close as possible
>> to the wall, to make way for the wheelie bin park. The ground level
>> would be dropped a few inches as well.
>>
>> The pole was replaced about 15 years ago. BT didn't ask us whether they
>> could put that stay there, they just went and did it. They could be
>> forgiven for assuming that that land was part of the public highway, but
>> it isn't. They aren't making any wayleave payments. We didn't take much
>> notice in the past because this was just a piece of waste land as far we
>> were concerned, but now we've got a sizeable collection of wheelie bins
>> it's suddenly become useful.
>>
>> So, does anyone know what's underneath there? Is there any experience or
>> knowledge in the group concerning the procedure for getting such an
>> anchor moved?
>
> Unless you've got the worlds largest bin collection, WTF don't you put
> them between the pole and where the cable goes into the ground?
I was hoping to stay within the side boundary.
> Mike Barnes scribbled...
>
>>
>> Possibly DIY, possibly not. :-)
>>
>> There's a BT telegraph pole adjacent to my house. It is supported by a
>> stay which is anchored on my land. The anchor is in the middle of an
>> area that I want to use for wheelie bins.
>>
>> Photo: https://www.dropbox.com/s/zzywbriq8zfsx6p/BT%20pole.jpg
>> Close-up: https://www.dropbox.com/s/bjsnv6iouq99d13/BT%20anchor.jpg
>>
>> I'd like the anchor moved back away from the road, as close as possible
>> to the wall, to make way for the wheelie bin park. The ground level
>> would be dropped a few inches as well.
>>
>> The pole was replaced about 15 years ago. BT didn't ask us whether they
>> could put that stay there, they just went and did it. They could be
>> forgiven for assuming that that land was part of the public highway, but
>> it isn't. They aren't making any wayleave payments. We didn't take much
>> notice in the past because this was just a piece of waste land as far we
>> were concerned, but now we've got a sizeable collection of wheelie bins
>> it's suddenly become useful.
>>
>> So, does anyone know what's underneath there? Is there any experience or
>> knowledge in the group concerning the procedure for getting such an
>> anchor moved?
>
> Unless you've got the worlds largest bin collection, WTF don't you put
> them between the pole and where the cable goes into the ground?
Four wheelie bins, by the way. Black, brown, blue, green.
--
Mike Barnes
Mike Barnes
Jan 24, 2014, 2:32:10 AM1/24/14
to
tony sayer wrote:
> Are the cables coming from the one direction opposite the stay and then
> carrying on in the stay side direction ?.
>
> Do the cables off the pole go in all directions is it a distribution
> pole?.
Cables go in four directions.
> Are the cables coming from the one direction opposite the stay and then
> carrying on in the stay side direction ?.
>
> Do the cables off the pole go in all directions is it a distribution
> pole?.
I've pondered this overnight and I think I have the answer.
My guess is that the stay is not there to resist the pull of the cables.
It's there to support the pole when a ladder is placed against it. You
lean the ladder against the side where the stay is.
If that's so, a new stay at 180 degrees to the old one might be a good
solution. But I'm now somewhat more cautious, thinking that the safety
of a BT "engineer" might be at stake.
--
Mike Barnes
Peter Crosland
Jan 24, 2014, 2:44:10 AM1/24/14
to
to, without BT's written agreement. They have much deeper pockets than
you do!
--
Peter Crosland
Tim+
Jan 24, 2014, 2:47:40 AM1/24/14
to
to resist any small lateral loads imposed by a ladder.
Tim
Adrian
Jan 24, 2014, 3:35:39 AM1/24/14
to
On Thu, 23 Jan 2014 18:50:20 +0000, Steve wrote:
> This is the type of thing BT use http://tinyurl.com/ol2m8uy but BT ones
> are about 5ft long - so no, they won't move it over a few inches for
> you, or if they do, be prepared for a *very* big bill!
Indeed. The changes to the electricity poles I mentioned in another reply
> This is the type of thing BT use http://tinyurl.com/ol2m8uy but BT ones
> are about 5ft long - so no, they won't move it over a few inches for
> you, or if they do, be prepared for a *very* big bill!
have left what used to be an electric pole now solely BT. BT want £200 to
come and look at it and even begin discussions about it.
Hey-ho. The trench they COULD have put their cable down has been filled
now, and they've admitted they have no wayleave over my land.
tony sayer
Jan 24, 2014, 4:23:11 AM1/24/14
to
In article <bkej8r...@mid.individual.net>, Mike Barnes
<mikeba...@gmail.com> scribeth thus
Humm... Do you think that stay could move in the night perhaps;?.....
--
Tony Sayer
<mikeba...@gmail.com> scribeth thus
--
Tony Sayer
tony sayer
Jan 24, 2014, 4:24:57 AM1/24/14
to
>>>
>>> As discussed, they won't pay if the pole only serves your dwelling and
>>> will argue strenuously that the placing is highway land.
>>>>
>>>> One of the reasons for contemplating a DIY solution is to avoid opening
>>>> that particular can of worms.
>>>
>>> Where a stretch of verge in my ownership was disputed, I was able to
>>> seek help from the *Land Charges* dept. of my County Council for a fee
>>> of £35.00.
>>>
>>> FYI contact point... BT Wayleave Scanning Office, Post Point 110N,
>>> Communications House, Harlescott Lane, Shrewsbury, SY1 3AQ
>>
>> Thanks for the information - kept. I'll be getting a contractor in
>> shortly and he has bags of experience and might be able to contribute
>> something as well. This thread has helped prepare me - thanks to all.
>
>You would be very foolish to interfere with the stay, or get anyone else
>to, without BT's written agreement. They have much deeper pockets than
>you do!
>
>
>
Mind you its often surprising what those olde Pikey boys can do when
>>> As discussed, they won't pay if the pole only serves your dwelling and
>>> will argue strenuously that the placing is highway land.
>>>>
>>>> One of the reasons for contemplating a DIY solution is to avoid opening
>>>> that particular can of worms.
>>>
>>> Where a stretch of verge in my ownership was disputed, I was able to
>>> seek help from the *Land Charges* dept. of my County Council for a fee
>>> of £35.00.
>>>
>>> FYI contact point... BT Wayleave Scanning Office, Post Point 110N,
>>> Communications House, Harlescott Lane, Shrewsbury, SY1 3AQ
>>
>> Thanks for the information - kept. I'll be getting a contractor in
>> shortly and he has bags of experience and might be able to contribute
>> something as well. This thread has helped prepare me - thanks to all.
>
>You would be very foolish to interfere with the stay, or get anyone else
>to, without BT's written agreement. They have much deeper pockets than
>you do!
>
>
>
there're after nicking a bit of copper phone wire isn't it;?...
--
Tony Sayer
Artic
Jan 24, 2014, 4:41:59 AM1/24/14
to
Mike Barnes scribbled...
> >
> > Unless you've got the worlds largest bin collection, WTF don't you put
> > them between the pole and where the cable goes into the ground?
>
> I was hoping to stay within the side boundary.
>
> Four wheelie bins, by the way. Black, brown, blue, green.
You're out in the sticks, no one gives a flying fuck where you put your
bins.
> >
> > Unless you've got the worlds largest bin collection, WTF don't you put
> > them between the pole and where the cable goes into the ground?
>
> I was hoping to stay within the side boundary.
>
> Four wheelie bins, by the way. Black, brown, blue, green.
bins.
harryagain
Jan 24, 2014, 5:18:12 AM1/24/14
to
"Mike Barnes" <mikeba...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:bkd05k...@mid.individual.net...
> Possibly DIY, possibly not. :-)
>
> There's a BT telegraph pole adjacent to my house. It is supported by a
> stay which is anchored on my land. The anchor is in the middle of an area
> that I want to use for wheelie bins.
>
> Photo: https://www.dropbox.com/s/zzywbriq8zfsx6p/BT%20pole.jpg
> Close-up: https://www.dropbox.com/s/bjsnv6iouq99d13/BT%20anchor.jpg
>
> I'd like the anchor moved back away from the road, as close as possible to
> the wall, to make way for the wheelie bin park. The ground level would be
> dropped a few inches as well.
>
>
> There's a BT telegraph pole adjacent to my house. It is supported by a
> stay which is anchored on my land. The anchor is in the middle of an area
> that I want to use for wheelie bins.
>
> Photo: https://www.dropbox.com/s/zzywbriq8zfsx6p/BT%20pole.jpg
> Close-up: https://www.dropbox.com/s/bjsnv6iouq99d13/BT%20anchor.jpg
>
> I'd like the anchor moved back away from the road, as close as possible to
> the wall, to make way for the wheelie bin park. The ground level would be
> dropped a few inches as well.
>
> The pole was replaced about 15 years ago. BT didn't ask us whether they
> could put that stay there, they just went and did it. They could be
> forgiven for assuming that that land was part of the public highway, but
> could put that stay there, they just went and did it. They could be
> forgiven for assuming that that land was part of the public highway, but
> it isn't. They aren't making any wayleave payments. We didn't take much
> notice in the past because this was just a piece of waste land as far we
> were concerned, but now we've got a sizeable collection of wheelie bins
> it's suddenly become useful.
>
> So, does anyone know what's underneath there? Is there any experience or
> knowledge in the group concerning the procedure for getting such an anchor
> moved?
I would say both the pole and stay are in the verge.
> notice in the past because this was just a piece of waste land as far we
> were concerned, but now we've got a sizeable collection of wheelie bins
> it's suddenly become useful.
>
> So, does anyone know what's underneath there? Is there any experience or
> knowledge in the group concerning the procedure for getting such an anchor
> moved?
The position of your own gate/wall probably indicates the boundary of your
property.
The bit btween your gate and the road is the verge and not yours.
The council will have definative drawings if the highway has been widened in
the last hundred years or so.
Or
See if you can establish the width of the verge elsewhere where it is better
defined (eg where there is another wall next to the verge.) You will likely
find it is the same as your bit of wall.
A metre wide /yard is common in rural areas.
5m in reecent constructions.
j...@mdfs.net
Jan 24, 2014, 5:30:08 AM1/24/14
to
harry wrote:
> The bit between your gate and the road is the verge
> and not yours.
You can't use rules of thumb like that. He could well own
everything to the centre of the road, and edge of the the
adopted highway could be anywhere between the edge of the
tarmac and the garden wall, or anywhere else.
The local highways authority doesn't have to own the land
that its adopted highways travel over, and the width of
the adopted highway is not automatically garden-wall-to-
garden-wall.
jgh
> The bit between your gate and the road is the verge
> and not yours.
You can't use rules of thumb like that. He could well own
everything to the centre of the road, and edge of the the
adopted highway could be anywhere between the edge of the
tarmac and the garden wall, or anywhere else.
The local highways authority doesn't have to own the land
that its adopted highways travel over, and the width of
the adopted highway is not automatically garden-wall-to-
garden-wall.
jgh
Jim K
Jan 24, 2014, 6:07:14 AM1/24/14
to
PC Crosland quivered:
Surely you would be extraordinarily stupid to get caught or admit to knowing anything about it, even if anyone ever noticed ever?
Jim K
>You would be very foolish to interfere with the stay, or get anyone else to, without BT's written agreement. They have much deeper pockets than you do!
--Peter Crosland/quiver
Surely you would be extraordinarily stupid to get caught or admit to knowing anything about it, even if anyone ever noticed ever?
Jim K
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
fred
Jan 24, 2014, 6:32:02 AM1/24/14
to
On Friday, January 24, 2014 11:14:44 AM UTC, Huge wrote:
>
> to go by. We decided where the stay should go, then he drove it in with
>
> a hydraulic motor attachment on the 6x6 Unimog he was using.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Today is Prickle-Prickle, the 24th day of Chaos in the YOLD 3180
>
> "Mistake Not My Current State Of Joshing Gentle Peevishness For The
>
> Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Ire That Are
>
> Themselves The Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Wrath"
just curious that they are still called Telegraph poles. How long is it since we used telegraphs.
Round here we call them Telephone poles.
I would agree with their method of erecting them. A slop of concrete at the bottom of a hole does very little. I prefer to dig the hole deep enough and wide enough to allow me get some various stones around the post as I back fill, Effect somewhat similar to strengthening concrete with gravel. We put up post and rail fencing using this method 25 years ago and its still solid
> On 2014-01-23, Mike Barnes <mikeba...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > So, does anyone know what's underneath there?
>
>
>
> A giant corkscrew, if having the poles in my garden changed was anything
>
>
>
> > So, does anyone know what's underneath there?
>
>
>
>
> to go by. We decided where the stay should go, then he drove it in with
>
> a hydraulic motor attachment on the 6x6 Unimog he was using.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Today is Prickle-Prickle, the 24th day of Chaos in the YOLD 3180
>
> "Mistake Not My Current State Of Joshing Gentle Peevishness For The
>
> Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Ire That Are
>
> Themselves The Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Wrath"
just curious that they are still called Telegraph poles. How long is it since we used telegraphs.
Round here we call them Telephone poles.
I would agree with their method of erecting them. A slop of concrete at the bottom of a hole does very little. I prefer to dig the hole deep enough and wide enough to allow me get some various stones around the post as I back fill, Effect somewhat similar to strengthening concrete with gravel. We put up post and rail fencing using this method 25 years ago and its still solid
Adrian
Jan 24, 2014, 8:04:33 AM1/24/14
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On Fri, 24 Jan 2014 11:17:18 +0000, Huge wrote:
>> Hmm, I would have thought that there would be more than enough buried
>> pole to resist any small lateral loads imposed by a ladder.
> There are 11 phone poles down my drive supporting phone cables (not
>> Hmm, I would have thought that there would be more than enough buried
>> pole to resist any small lateral loads imposed by a ladder.
> power). None of the are stayed, except where the line goes round a
> corner (and not always then.)
If the cable loads on each side are equal-ish, no stay needed. The stays
counteract the cable loads.
Tim Lamb
Jan 24, 2014, 8:54:02 AM1/24/14
to
In message <bkf0du...@mid.individual.net>, Huge
<Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> writes
how much the poles bent and how quickly a repair team were on site.
No charge on that occasion:-)
--
Tim Lamb
<Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> writes
>> Hmm, I would have thought that there would be more than enough buried pole
>> to resist any small lateral loads imposed by a ladder.
>
>> to resist any small lateral loads imposed by a ladder.
>
>There are 11 phone poles down my drive supporting phone cables (not
>power). None of the are stayed, except where the line goes round a corner
>(and not always then.)
I once *hedge trimmed* a stay on an 11kV corner post! Very surprising
>power). None of the are stayed, except where the line goes round a corner
>(and not always then.)
how much the poles bent and how quickly a repair team were on site.
No charge on that occasion:-)
--
Tim Lamb
fred
Jan 24, 2014, 10:32:59 AM1/24/14
to
In article <BvpDV1L$Dj4S...@bancom.co.uk>, tony sayer
<to...@bancom.co.uk> writes
I'm sure a new anchor point could go in anytime (carefully located so
that there would be little or no change in the stay length), reducing
the duration of any night-time activities.
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .
<to...@bancom.co.uk> writes
that there would be little or no change in the stay length), reducing
the duration of any night-time activities.
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .
Jim K
Jan 24, 2014, 11:53:24 AM1/24/14
to
Jim K
Mike Barnes
Jan 24, 2014, 12:00:30 PM1/24/14
to
which shows the location of the property with a red border but that's
not particularly precise.
I also have a title document dated 1811 (hand-written on parchment, wax
seals, etc, with a Land Registry tag) which says "bounded [...] by the
highway or road". But I have no idea whether "highway or road" would
include any verge.
I'm not sure how relevant all this is now, but I'm interested. Not
interested enough to pay a solicitor, though. :-)
--
Mike Barnes
Steve
Jan 24, 2014, 1:59:26 PM1/24/14
to
Mike Barnes explained on 24/01/2014 :
cables.
> If that's so, a new stay at 180 degrees to the old one might be a good
> solution. But I'm now somewhat more cautious, thinking that the safety of a
> BT "engineer" might be at stake.
And that, my friend, is the crux of the matter. If you really must have
it moved, don't be tempted to do anything silly during the night or to
do something surreptitiously - do it officially and properly by
contacting BT. You don't know the condition of the part of the pole
that's in the ground and anything could happen.
> tony sayer wrote:
>> Are the cables coming from the one direction opposite the stay and then
>> carrying on in the stay side direction ?.
>>
>> Do the cables off the pole go in all directions is it a distribution
>> pole?.
>
> Cables go in four directions.
>
> I've pondered this overnight and I think I have the answer.
>
> My guess is that the stay is not there to resist the pull of the cables. It's
> there to support the pole when a ladder is placed against it. You lean the
> ladder against the side where the stay is.
No, the stays are there to counteract the weight and pull of the
>> Are the cables coming from the one direction opposite the stay and then
>> carrying on in the stay side direction ?.
>>
>> Do the cables off the pole go in all directions is it a distribution
>> pole?.
>
> Cables go in four directions.
>
> I've pondered this overnight and I think I have the answer.
>
> My guess is that the stay is not there to resist the pull of the cables. It's
> there to support the pole when a ladder is placed against it. You lean the
> ladder against the side where the stay is.
cables.
> If that's so, a new stay at 180 degrees to the old one might be a good
> solution. But I'm now somewhat more cautious, thinking that the safety of a
> BT "engineer" might be at stake.
it moved, don't be tempted to do anything silly during the night or to
do something surreptitiously - do it officially and properly by
contacting BT. You don't know the condition of the part of the pole
that's in the ground and anything could happen.
Adrian
Jan 24, 2014, 2:03:50 PM1/24/14
to
On Fri, 24 Jan 2014 18:59:26 +0000, Steve wrote:
> And that, my friend, is the crux of the matter. If you really must have
> it moved, don't be tempted to do anything silly during the night or to
> do something surreptitiously - do it officially and properly by
> contacting BT. You don't know the condition of the part of the pole
> that's in the ground
I don't even want to consider what the preservatives on these things is -
> And that, my friend, is the crux of the matter. If you really must have
> it moved, don't be tempted to do anything silly during the night or to
> do something surreptitiously - do it officially and properly by
> contacting BT. You don't know the condition of the part of the pole
> that's in the ground
but the poles that were removed from here the other day - after 51 years
in the ground - were _perfect_.
The new ones _stink_...
Peter Crosland
Jan 24, 2014, 2:04:44 PM1/24/14
to
information from the deeds should be incorporated in them. The Land
Registry only indicates what they call general boundaries. These are not
precise but serve for most purposes. If the exact boundary needs to be
determined then the services of a specialist surveyor are needed. This
site is a good place to start if you need to.
http://www.gardenlaw.co.uk/
There are no hard and fast rules and what may seem obvious from the plan
may not be correct. As an example when I purchased my current house my
solicitor queried the ownership of the small pull in that is in front of
the gates. The local highway authority claimed ownership although the
Land registry plan suggested otherwise. This was in a poor state of
repair and although the road had recently been resurfaced the pull in
was seriously potholed. In fact it was one big pothole! So I asked the
them to repair it. The reply was it was not their responsibility. The
letters claiming ownership and denying it were signed by the same
person! After further correspondence the repairs were carried out.
Persistence counts.
--
Peter Crosland
Steve
Jan 24, 2014, 2:15:14 PM1/24/14
to
Adrian laid this down on his screen :
They often are, but I've also seen some rotten ones that *looked*
perfect. I was a cable jointer on BT for about 20 years and the oldest
pole I've been up was 76 years old and perfect - but I've seen
condemned poles that have been about 30 years old or less. Poles are
tested on a 10-year cycle (or were in my day, may have changed now) by
official pole testers, but as engineers, we're also supposed to make
certain checks before climbing - and I don't want anyone putting my
life at risk by tampering with the stays (or I wouldn't if I was still
doing the job).
perfect. I was a cable jointer on BT for about 20 years and the oldest
pole I've been up was 76 years old and perfect - but I've seen
condemned poles that have been about 30 years old or less. Poles are
tested on a 10-year cycle (or were in my day, may have changed now) by
official pole testers, but as engineers, we're also supposed to make
certain checks before climbing - and I don't want anyone putting my
life at risk by tampering with the stays (or I wouldn't if I was still
doing the job).
Adrian
Jan 24, 2014, 2:16:31 PM1/24/14
to
> They often are, but I've also seen some rotten ones that *looked*
> perfect. I was a cable jointer on BT for about 20 years and the oldest
> pole I've been up was 76 years old and perfect - but I've seen condemned
> poles that have been about 30 years old or less.
I wonder if, at some stage, the preservatives were changed for something
> perfect. I was a cable jointer on BT for about 20 years and the oldest
> pole I've been up was 76 years old and perfect - but I've seen condemned
> poles that have been about 30 years old or less.
less... vehement (but effective)?
Steve
Jan 24, 2014, 2:22:48 PM1/24/14
to
Adrian wrote :
Given elfin safety these days, I'd say almost certainly.
Dave Liquorice
Jan 24, 2014, 2:39:09 PM1/24/14
to
On Fri, 24 Jan 2014 19:03:50 +0000 (UTC), Adrian wrote:
> I don't even want to consider what the preservatives on these things is
> - but the poles that were removed from here the other day - after 51
> years in the ground - were _perfect_.
Timber in damp ground lasts well anyway. Vacuum treated, ie poles are
> I don't even want to consider what the preservatives on these things is
> - but the poles that were removed from here the other day - after 51
> years in the ground - were _perfect_.
placed in a chamber and the pressure reduced drawing the air out of
the wood, the preservative is then introduced and occupies the
"holes". Much better penetration than plain dipping or trying to
shove stuff in under pressure.
Poles and timber in general rots at or just above ground level. The
"goldilocks zone" for the rot fungi and bacteria.
> The new ones _stink_...
Creosote, the real stuff? But what ever they use on poles seems to
have a higher proportion of tar than the stuff mere mortals could
get.
--
Cheers
Dave.
SteveW
Jan 24, 2014, 3:04:43 PM1/24/14
to
SteveW
SteveW
Jan 24, 2014, 3:08:00 PM1/24/14
to
On 24/01/2014 11:32, fred wrote:
> On Friday, January 24, 2014 11:14:44 AM UTC, Huge wrote:
>> On 2014-01-23, Mike Barnes <mikeba...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> So, does anyone know what's underneath there?
>>
>>
>>
>> A giant corkscrew, if having the poles in my garden changed was anything
>>
>> to go by. We decided where the stay should go, then he drove it in with
>>
>> a hydraulic motor attachment on the 6x6 Unimog he was using.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Today is Prickle-Prickle, the 24th day of Chaos in the YOLD 3180
>>
>> "Mistake Not My Current State Of Joshing Gentle Peevishness For The
>>
>> Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Ire That Are
>>
>> Themselves The Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Wrath"
>
> just curious that they are still called Telegraph poles. How long is it since we used telegraphs.
>
> Round here we call them Telephone poles.
Definitely still telegraph poles around here.
> On Friday, January 24, 2014 11:14:44 AM UTC, Huge wrote:
>> On 2014-01-23, Mike Barnes <mikeba...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> So, does anyone know what's underneath there?
>>
>>
>>
>> A giant corkscrew, if having the poles in my garden changed was anything
>>
>> to go by. We decided where the stay should go, then he drove it in with
>>
>> a hydraulic motor attachment on the 6x6 Unimog he was using.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Today is Prickle-Prickle, the 24th day of Chaos in the YOLD 3180
>>
>> "Mistake Not My Current State Of Joshing Gentle Peevishness For The
>>
>> Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Ire That Are
>>
>> Themselves The Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Wrath"
>
> just curious that they are still called Telegraph poles. How long is it since we used telegraphs.
>
> Round here we call them Telephone poles.
SteveW
Jim K
Jan 24, 2014, 4:23:30 PM1/24/14
to
> Vacuum treated, ie poles are placed in a chamber and the pressure reduced drawing the air out of the wood, the preservative is then introduced and occupies the "holes". Much better penetration than plain dipping or trying to shove stuff in under pressure./>
otherwise known as 'tanalising' for eg...
Jim K
otherwise known as 'tanalising' for eg...
Jim K
Tim Watts
Jan 24, 2014, 5:00:58 PM1/24/14
to
tractor that can chop small trees in half?
--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/
http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal
coverage
MattyF
Jan 24, 2014, 5:17:38 PM1/24/14
to
On Fri, 24 Jan 2014 22:00:58 +0000, Tim Watts wrote:
> On Friday 24 January 2014 13:54 Tim Lamb wrote in uk.d-i-y:
>> I once *hedge trimmed* a stay on an 11kV corner post! Very surprising
>> how much the poles bent and how quickly a repair team were on site.
>>
>> No charge on that occasion:-)
>>
>>
> I assume by "hedge trimmer" you mean one of those big bastards on a
> tractor that can chop small trees in half?
New Zealand hedge trimmer:
> On Friday 24 January 2014 13:54 Tim Lamb wrote in uk.d-i-y:
>> I once *hedge trimmed* a stay on an 11kV corner post! Very surprising
>> how much the poles bent and how quickly a repair team were on site.
>>
>> No charge on that occasion:-)
>>
>>
> I assume by "hedge trimmer" you mean one of those big bastards on a
> tractor that can chop small trees in half?
http://i42.tinypic.com/racdpw.jpg
probably cuts telegraph poles in half!
Adrian
Jan 24, 2014, 6:23:07 PM1/24/14
to
On Fri, 24 Jan 2014 22:17:38 +0000, MattyF wrote:
>>> I once *hedge trimmed* a stay on an 11kV corner post! Very surprising
>>> how much the poles bent and how quickly a repair team were on site.
>>> I once *hedge trimmed* a stay on an 11kV corner post! Very surprising
>>> how much the poles bent and how quickly a repair team were on site.
>> I assume by "hedge trimmer" you mean one of those big bastards on a
>> tractor that can chop small trees in half?
> New Zealand hedge trimmer: http://i42.tinypic.com/racdpw.jpg
Holy. Fucking. Crap.
>> tractor that can chop small trees in half?
> New Zealand hedge trimmer: http://i42.tinypic.com/racdpw.jpg
Tim Lamb
Jan 24, 2014, 6:17:09 PM1/24/14
to
In message <qd4bra-...@squidward.local.dionic.net>, Tim Watts
<tw+u...@dionic.net> writes
Cutting Hawthorn/Blackthorn, you can annoy a lot of cyclists very
quickly:-)
>
>
--
Tim Lamb
<tw+u...@dionic.net> writes
>>
>> I once *hedge trimmed* a stay on an 11kV corner post! Very surprising
>> how much the poles bent and how quickly a repair team were on site.
>>
>> No charge on that occasion:-)
>>
>
>I assume by "hedge trimmer" you mean one of those big bastards on a
>tractor that can chop small trees in half?
Yes. 1.2m cut and mine is an old one.
>> I once *hedge trimmed* a stay on an 11kV corner post! Very surprising
>> how much the poles bent and how quickly a repair team were on site.
>>
>> No charge on that occasion:-)
>>
>
>I assume by "hedge trimmer" you mean one of those big bastards on a
>tractor that can chop small trees in half?
Cutting Hawthorn/Blackthorn, you can annoy a lot of cyclists very
quickly:-)
>
>
--
Tim Lamb
Tim Lamb
Jan 24, 2014, 6:21:35 PM1/24/14
to
In message <lbue6f$1u8$1...@speranza.aioe.org>, Adrian
<tooma...@gmail.com> writes
I have seen what I take to be Boron *nails* hammered in to electricity
poles at ground level.
--
Tim Lamb
<tooma...@gmail.com> writes
poles at ground level.
--
Tim Lamb
Dave Liquorice
Jan 24, 2014, 7:15:17 PM1/24/14
to
or similar. In the olde dayes it would have been CCA (Copper Chromium
Arsenate) but that worked so had to be banned. Tanalisation is still
copper based though.
--
Cheers
Dave.
j...@mdfs.net
Jan 24, 2014, 10:25:59 PM1/24/14
to
Mike Barnes wrote:
> Do "deeds" have any significance nowadays? I have the Land Registry
> map which shows the location of the property with a red border but
> that's not particularly precise.
Yes. A deed is a legal document. The Land Registry map is purely
> Do "deeds" have any significance nowadays? I have the Land Registry
> map which shows the location of the property with a red border but
> that's not particularly precise.
to indicate where the plot is, it is explicitly *not* a boundary
map. As you said, it shows the *location* of the property, *not*
the *boundaries* of the property.
jgh
Jim K
Jan 25, 2014, 3:38:52 AM1/25/14
to
Seems it's irrelevant anyway:-
" Frank Erskine
In article <ag40pv$f...@cvis05. marconicomms.com>, Pa...@macaroni.com writes
>Can anyone tell me how telephone poles are treated with preservative and the >method used? Presuming that they are soaked -how long for? > The commonest method is (was?) called the "Rüping" process.
"Air is forced into the wood at a pressure of about 75 lb to the square inch. Creosote is next injected under greater pressure, and then an air pressure of about 225 lb is applied, thus driving the oil in to a considerable depth. When the pressure is released the compressed air in the interior of the wood drives out some of the creosote - an effect which is sometimes augmented by applying vacuum. Only about 6 lb of creosote per cubic foot is left in the timber." Courtesy of "Telephony" Volume 1 by Herbert and Procter. --Frank Erskine"
(presume reference is simple enough for you this time..)
Jim K
" Frank Erskine
In article <ag40pv$f...@cvis05. marconicomms.com>, Pa...@macaroni.com writes
>Can anyone tell me how telephone poles are treated with preservative and the >method used? Presuming that they are soaked -how long for? > The commonest method is (was?) called the "Rüping" process.
"Air is forced into the wood at a pressure of about 75 lb to the square inch. Creosote is next injected under greater pressure, and then an air pressure of about 225 lb is applied, thus driving the oil in to a considerable depth. When the pressure is released the compressed air in the interior of the wood drives out some of the creosote - an effect which is sometimes augmented by applying vacuum. Only about 6 lb of creosote per cubic foot is left in the timber." Courtesy of "Telephony" Volume 1 by Herbert and Procter. --Frank Erskine"
(presume reference is simple enough for you this time..)
Jim K
Tim Watts
Jan 25, 2014, 4:08:51 AM1/25/14
to
Adrian
Jan 25, 2014, 4:22:30 AM1/25/14
to
cease to carry any legal weight whatsoever once a property's registered
with the LR.
Mike Barnes
Jan 25, 2014, 5:40:40 AM1/25/14
to
writing concerns boundaries with neighbours as opposed to the highway.
AFAICS the only authority on where the road ends and your property
begins is the local council, which obviously has a certain bias, and
would naturally prefer to have authority over the verge but no
responsibility for its maintenance.
Looking at Ordnance Survey site maps it seems to me that the edge of the
highway is shown with a solid line, and any verge or pavement that is
part of the highway is separated from the rest of the highway by a
dashed line. And that that distinction is taken as fairly authoritative
when queries arise.
For most (but not all) of the lane I live on, there are no dashed lines
on the map, though in reality there is an obvious verge between the
walls/fences/hedges and the road. I'm tending to the view that the
verges are in private hands, but that's 99% speculation.
I don't know whether councils have more detailed maps available for
public inspection, as if so, whether asking to see them could open an
unwanted can of worms. Also is anything the council says going to cut
any ice with BT when they decide whether that stay is on our land or
not? And is whether it's on our land or not going to affect BT's
willingness to move it?
--
Mike Barnes
Andy
Jan 25, 2014, 8:24:27 AM1/25/14
to
>
They aren't still called telegraph poles, but a lot of people do call
them that.
I remember doing my BT Subs App & Line Maintenance course (201, or maybe
it was the 202) course in the late seventies and they were officially
called telephone poles even then.
We had to learn how to erect open copper drop wires! I never had to do
it in the field, but it was interesting to learn how to do it.
djc
Jan 25, 2014, 4:11:58 PM1/25/14
to
Rick Hughes
Jan 25, 2014, 4:18:48 PM1/25/14
to
On 23/01/2014 16:57, Mike Barnes wrote:
>
> The pole was replaced about 15 years ago. BT didn't ask us whether they
> could put that stay there,
At my previous house BT did same .. and a year later also run cable
diagonally across my garden to feed next door ... which was an eyesore -
but they didn't need my permission.
--
UK SelfBuild: http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/UK_Selfbuild/
>
> The pole was replaced about 15 years ago. BT didn't ask us whether they
> could put that stay there,
At my previous house BT did same .. and a year later also run cable
diagonally across my garden to feed next door ... which was an eyesore -
but they didn't need my permission.
--
UK SelfBuild: http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/UK_Selfbuild/
bert
Jan 25, 2014, 4:18:15 PM1/25/14
to
In message <bkfkkm...@mid.individual.net>, Mike Barnes
<mikeba...@gmail.com> writes
Land Registry do not have old deeds digitised(?) on line. You have to
dig deep to find them. I own the land right up to the road, but service
organisations have way leave for pipes and cables and right of access
for servicing. BGAS engineer tried to tell my neighbour that the land
was theirs but we soon put him right. No poles to worry about
--
bert
<mikeba...@gmail.com> writes
dig deep to find them. I own the land right up to the road, but service
organisations have way leave for pipes and cables and right of access
for servicing. BGAS engineer tried to tell my neighbour that the land
was theirs but we soon put him right. No poles to worry about
--
bert
fred
Jan 25, 2014, 4:35:01 PM1/25/14
to
In article <7eBwZ3FX...@nospam.co.uk>, bert <bert@[127.0.0.1]>
writes
FWIW, at my dad's place he owned the verge but let the council grab a
bit when they decided the area needed some pavements, it seemed like a
fair swap.
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .
writes
>>I also have a title document dated 1811 (hand-written on parchment, wax
>>seals, etc, with a Land Registry tag) which says "bounded [...] by the
>>highway or road". But I have no idea whether "highway or road" would
>>include any verge.
>>
>>I'm not sure how relevant all this is now, but I'm interested. Not
>>interested enough to pay a solicitor, though. :-)
>>
>Land Registry do not have old deeds digitised(?) on line. You have to
>dig deep to find them. I own the land right up to the road, but service
>organisations have way leave for pipes and cables and right of access
>for servicing. BGAS engineer tried to tell my neighbour that the land
>was theirs but we soon put him right. No poles to worry about
Gas is coming in on overheads now :-?
>>seals, etc, with a Land Registry tag) which says "bounded [...] by the
>>highway or road". But I have no idea whether "highway or road" would
>>include any verge.
>>
>>I'm not sure how relevant all this is now, but I'm interested. Not
>>interested enough to pay a solicitor, though. :-)
>>
>Land Registry do not have old deeds digitised(?) on line. You have to
>dig deep to find them. I own the land right up to the road, but service
>organisations have way leave for pipes and cables and right of access
>for servicing. BGAS engineer tried to tell my neighbour that the land
>was theirs but we soon put him right. No poles to worry about
FWIW, at my dad's place he owned the verge but let the council grab a
bit when they decided the area needed some pavements, it seemed like a
fair swap.
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .
Tim Lamb
Jan 26, 2014, 3:57:48 AM1/26/14
to
In message <7eBwZ3FX...@nospam.co.uk>, bert <bert@[127.0.0.1]>
writes
the utility provider. How this works for a housing development is beyond
my knowledge. Perhaps the original site owner makes the agreement which
may then be noted in the individual Land Registry records.
--
Tim Lamb
writes
>Land Registry do not have old deeds digitised(?) on line. You have to
>dig deep to find them. I own the land right up to the road, but service
>organisations have way leave for pipes and cables and right of access
>for servicing. BGAS engineer tried to tell my neighbour that the land
>was theirs but we soon put him right. No poles to worry about
Umm.. A way leave is a legal agreement between the owner of the land and
>dig deep to find them. I own the land right up to the road, but service
>organisations have way leave for pipes and cables and right of access
>for servicing. BGAS engineer tried to tell my neighbour that the land
>was theirs but we soon put him right. No poles to worry about
the utility provider. How this works for a housing development is beyond
my knowledge. Perhaps the original site owner makes the agreement which
may then be noted in the individual Land Registry records.
--
Tim Lamb
bert
Jan 26, 2014, 7:07:27 AM1/26/14
to
In message <M0qr2hrM...@marfordfarm.demon.co.uk>, Tim Lamb
<t...@marfordfarm.demon.co.uk> writes
It was covered by covenants on the original deeds along with other
restrictions such as not keeping chickens. These were classified as "old
deeds" on the LR site which simply meant they were held in image format
and not searchable. There was no implication as to any loss of legal
status.
--
bert
<t...@marfordfarm.demon.co.uk> writes
restrictions such as not keeping chickens. These were classified as "old
deeds" on the LR site which simply meant they were held in image format
and not searchable. There was no implication as to any loss of legal
status.
--
bert
Adrian
Jan 26, 2014, 7:44:27 AM1/26/14
to
On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 12:07:27 +0000, bert wrote:
>>>Land Registry do not have old deeds digitised(?) on line. You have to
>>>dig deep to find them. I own the land right up to the road, but service
>>>organisations have way leave for pipes and cables and right of access
>>>for servicing. BGAS engineer tried to tell my neighbour that the land
>>>was theirs but we soon put him right. No poles to worry about
>>Umm.. A way leave is a legal agreement between the owner of the land and
>>the utility provider. How this works for a housing development is beyond
>>my knowledge. Perhaps the original site owner makes the agreement which
>>may then be noted in the individual Land Registry records.
> It was covered by covenants on the original deeds along with other
> restrictions such as not keeping chickens. These were classified as "old
> deeds" on the LR site which simply meant they were held in image format
> and not searchable. There was no implication as to any loss of legal
> status.
Have you checked the LR to see if the covenants are listed there? If not,
>>>Land Registry do not have old deeds digitised(?) on line. You have to
>>>dig deep to find them. I own the land right up to the road, but service
>>>organisations have way leave for pipes and cables and right of access
>>>for servicing. BGAS engineer tried to tell my neighbour that the land
>>>was theirs but we soon put him right. No poles to worry about
>>Umm.. A way leave is a legal agreement between the owner of the land and
>>the utility provider. How this works for a housing development is beyond
>>my knowledge. Perhaps the original site owner makes the agreement which
>>may then be noted in the individual Land Registry records.
> It was covered by covenants on the original deeds along with other
> restrictions such as not keeping chickens. These were classified as "old
> deeds" on the LR site which simply meant they were held in image format
> and not searchable. There was no implication as to any loss of legal
> status.
I don't see them being legally enforcable. The LR is the only
authoritative record for any registered land or property.
Waving old deeds about just says that there was, at one time, a covenant
in place. It doesn't say anything about what might have happened to that
covenant later.
Chris Bartram
Jan 26, 2014, 7:50:28 AM1/26/14
to
On 23/01/14 17:59, Jim K wrote:
> AIUI Bt don't need wayleaves nor do they pay for poles etc.
>
> Elec companies do.
>
> Expect a phenomenal "quote" for them to do it
>
> Jim K
>
YMMV, but I got an entire BT pole moved for free about 10 years ago.
It had been placed about 3ft from in line with my property boundary, in
line with a hedge that seperated a garden path from a front garden. When
I removed my garden wall and hedge to make a driveway, the pole was left
in an inconvenient place. I asked them for a price, and they just came
and did it: I came back from holiday, it was moved :-).
> AIUI Bt don't need wayleaves nor do they pay for poles etc.
>
> Elec companies do.
>
> Expect a phenomenal "quote" for them to do it
>
> Jim K
>
YMMV, but I got an entire BT pole moved for free about 10 years ago.
It had been placed about 3ft from in line with my property boundary, in
line with a hedge that seperated a garden path from a front garden. When
I removed my garden wall and hedge to make a driveway, the pole was left
in an inconvenient place. I asked them for a price, and they just came
and did it: I came back from holiday, it was moved :-).
Jim K
Jan 26, 2014, 11:13:39 AM1/26/14
to
Jim K
bert
Jan 27, 2014, 4:04:46 PM1/27/14
to
In message <lc2vvb$qu2$2...@speranza.aioe.org>, Adrian
<tooma...@gmail.com> writes
know if anything had been changed.
--
bert
<tooma...@gmail.com> writes
>On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 12:07:27 +0000, bert wrote:
>
>>>>Land Registry do not have old deeds digitised(?) on line. You have to
>>>>dig deep to find them. I own the land right up to the road, but service
>>>>organisations have way leave for pipes and cables and right of access
>>>>for servicing. BGAS engineer tried to tell my neighbour that the land
>>>>was theirs but we soon put him right. No poles to worry about
>
>>>Umm.. A way leave is a legal agreement between the owner of the land and
>>>the utility provider. How this works for a housing development is beyond
>>>my knowledge. Perhaps the original site owner makes the agreement which
>>>may then be noted in the individual Land Registry records.
>
>> It was covered by covenants on the original deeds along with other
>> restrictions such as not keeping chickens. These were classified as "old
>> deeds" on the LR site which simply meant they were held in image format
>> and not searchable. There was no implication as to any loss of legal
>> status.
>
>Have you checked the LR to see if the covenants are listed there? If not,
>I don't see them being legally enforcable. The LR is the only
>authoritative record for any registered land or property.
>
I've just told you where they are.
>
>>>>Land Registry do not have old deeds digitised(?) on line. You have to
>>>>dig deep to find them. I own the land right up to the road, but service
>>>>organisations have way leave for pipes and cables and right of access
>>>>for servicing. BGAS engineer tried to tell my neighbour that the land
>>>>was theirs but we soon put him right. No poles to worry about
>
>>>Umm.. A way leave is a legal agreement between the owner of the land and
>>>the utility provider. How this works for a housing development is beyond
>>>my knowledge. Perhaps the original site owner makes the agreement which
>>>may then be noted in the individual Land Registry records.
>
>> It was covered by covenants on the original deeds along with other
>> restrictions such as not keeping chickens. These were classified as "old
>> deeds" on the LR site which simply meant they were held in image format
>> and not searchable. There was no implication as to any loss of legal
>> status.
>
>Have you checked the LR to see if the covenants are listed there? If not,
>I don't see them being legally enforcable. The LR is the only
>authoritative record for any registered land or property.
>
>Waving old deeds about just says that there was, at one time, a covenant
>in place. It doesn't say anything about what might have happened to that
>covenant later.
As I've lived here since the houses were built you would think I might
>in place. It doesn't say anything about what might have happened to that
>covenant later.
know if anything had been changed.
--
bert
SteveW
Jan 27, 2014, 5:23:39 PM1/27/14
to
that as they begin to sell the properties and people move in, they do
not create an atmosphere that puts off potential purchasers for the
remaining properties. Once they have sold the lot, they are generally no
longer interested and will not enforce any restrictions - and generally
they are the only ones that can.
SteveW
djc
Jan 28, 2014, 4:16:19 PM1/28/14
to
--
djc
bert
Jan 28, 2014, 6:24:32 PM1/28/14
to
In message <lc6m9a$lcl$1...@dont-email.me>, SteveW
<st...@walker-family.me.uk> writes
I believe you can apply to a magistrates court to have these covenants
enforced.
--
bert
<st...@walker-family.me.uk> writes
enforced.
--
bert
Michael Kilpatrick
Jan 29, 2014, 4:35:39 AM1/29/14
to
On 25/01/2014 09:08, Tim Watts wrote:
> On Friday 24 January 2014 22:17 MattyF wrote in uk.d-i-y:
>
>> On Fri, 24 Jan 2014 22:00:58 +0000, Tim Watts wrote:
>>
>>> On Friday 24 January 2014 13:54 Tim Lamb wrote in uk.d-i-y:
>>
>>>> I once *hedge trimmed* a stay on an 11kV corner post! Very
>>>> surprising how much the poles bent and how quickly a repair team
>>>> were on site.
>>>>
>>>> No charge on that occasion:-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I assume by "hedge trimmer" you mean one of those big bastards on a
>>> tractor that can chop small trees in half?
>>
>> New Zealand hedge trimmer:
>> http://i42.tinypic.com/racdpw.jpg
>>
>> probably cuts telegraph poles in half!
>
> Fuuucck....
>
Wow. That looks *nasty*
> On Friday 24 January 2014 22:17 MattyF wrote in uk.d-i-y:
>
>> On Fri, 24 Jan 2014 22:00:58 +0000, Tim Watts wrote:
>>
>>> On Friday 24 January 2014 13:54 Tim Lamb wrote in uk.d-i-y:
>>
>>>> I once *hedge trimmed* a stay on an 11kV corner post! Very
>>>> surprising how much the poles bent and how quickly a repair team
>>>> were on site.
>>>>
>>>> No charge on that occasion:-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I assume by "hedge trimmer" you mean one of those big bastards on a
>>> tractor that can chop small trees in half?
>>
>> New Zealand hedge trimmer:
>> http://i42.tinypic.com/racdpw.jpg
>>
>> probably cuts telegraph poles in half!
>
> Fuuucck....
>
Michael
Michael Kilpatrick
Jan 29, 2014, 4:40:32 AM1/29/14
to
On 23/01/2014 16:57, Mike Barnes wrote:
> Possibly DIY, possibly not. :-)
>
> There's a BT telegraph pole adjacent to my house. It is supported by a
> stay which is anchored on my land. The anchor is in the middle of an
> area that I want to use for wheelie bins.
My understanding is that (these days) you've got a right to get any such
stays, which are on your land, moved at the utility company's expense.
I don't much about wayleaves and *paying* for them, but any stay on your
land should be written up in the deeds stating that the company has a
right to enter your land to maintain it. I've never heard of a company
having to pay for the right to have a pole on someone's land.
There's a pole stay over our back wall which I'm thinking of moving if I
ever remove and replace the garage, as it interferes with the rather
tight turning circle. A friend of mine in the Peak District had a pole
stay removed from their land some years ago.
Michael
Adrian
Jan 29, 2014, 4:49:50 AM1/29/14
to
On Wed, 29 Jan 2014 09:40:32 +0000, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
> My understanding is that (these days) you've got a right to get any such
> stays, which are on your land, moved at the utility company's expense.
>
> I don't much about wayleaves and *paying* for them, but any stay on your
> land should be written up in the deeds stating that the company has a
> right to enter your land to maintain it. I've never heard of a company
> having to pay for the right to have a pole on someone's land.
We bought this house in May last year. The (excellent, very on-the-ball)
> My understanding is that (these days) you've got a right to get any such
> stays, which are on your land, moved at the utility company's expense.
>
> I don't much about wayleaves and *paying* for them, but any stay on your
> land should be written up in the deeds stating that the company has a
> right to enter your land to maintain it. I've never heard of a company
> having to pay for the right to have a pole on someone's land.
solicitor had no problem whatsoever with the wayleaves in place for the
electricity poles and transformer on the land, with nothing about them
mentioned in the LR entry.
Western Power have, as I already mentioned, handed one pole to BT,
installed a new pole, and changed two-plus-transformer to one-plus-new
transformer. One cable (to next door) has been moved into a trench. We've
signed a new wayleave.
BT, otoh, have no wayleave, but now have a pole on our land. WP have
kicked 'em, and they're coming "within the next couple of weeks" to have
an initial survey and discussion. When I asked 'em, whilst the trench was
still open, they wanted to charge us £200 just for that first visit.
Message has been deleted
Michael Kilpatrick
Jan 29, 2014, 3:16:06 PM1/29/14
to
On 29/01/2014 14:09, Huge wrote:
> in their garden in Cheddar. It was over 30 years ago, though.
>
>
Hmm. The stay (in our garden) for the pole (on next door's land) is for
an overhead power supply[*] to next door and as such is not part of any
service to our house - so under what conditions exactly does a wayleave
entitle a fee, does anyone know?
Michael
[*] The supply is underground through our land and only emerges at the
pole, to traverse the length of next door's garden.
> On 2014-01-29, Michael Kilpatrick <ne...@mkilpatrickspam.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> I don't much about wayleaves and *paying* for them, but any stay on your
>> land should be written up in the deeds stating that the company has a
>> right to enter your land to maintain it. I've never heard of a company
>> having to pay for the right to have a pole on someone's land.
>
> My parents used to get a tiny payment (£10/yr? I forget) for the pole
>
>> I don't much about wayleaves and *paying* for them, but any stay on your
>> land should be written up in the deeds stating that the company has a
>> right to enter your land to maintain it. I've never heard of a company
>> having to pay for the right to have a pole on someone's land.
>
> in their garden in Cheddar. It was over 30 years ago, though.
>
>
Hmm. The stay (in our garden) for the pole (on next door's land) is for
an overhead power supply[*] to next door and as such is not part of any
service to our house - so under what conditions exactly does a wayleave
entitle a fee, does anyone know?
Michael
[*] The supply is underground through our land and only emerges at the
pole, to traverse the length of next door's garden.
Adrian
Jan 29, 2014, 3:26:01 PM1/29/14
to
On Wed, 29 Jan 2014 20:16:06 +0000, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
> Hmm. The stay (in our garden) for the pole (on next door's land) is for
> an overhead power supply[*] to next door and as such is not part of any
> service to our house - so under what conditions exactly does a wayleave
> entitle a fee, does anyone know?
If there's some infrastructure on your land that doesn't _only_ supply
> Hmm. The stay (in our garden) for the pole (on next door's land) is for
> an overhead power supply[*] to next door and as such is not part of any
> service to our house - so under what conditions exactly does a wayleave
> entitle a fee, does anyone know?
you, they need a wayleave for it.
If it's only for your supply, then they don't.
harryagain
Jan 30, 2014, 2:40:17 AM1/30/14
to
"Huge" <Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote in message
news:bksgcu...@mid.individual.net...
>> I don't much about wayleaves and *paying* for them, but any stay on your
>> land should be written up in the deeds stating that the company has a
>> right to enter your land to maintain it. I've never heard of a company
>> having to pay for the right to have a pole on someone's land.
>
>> land should be written up in the deeds stating that the company has a
>> right to enter your land to maintain it. I've never heard of a company
>> having to pay for the right to have a pole on someone's land.
>
> My parents used to get a tiny payment (£10/yr? I forget) for the pole
> in their garden in Cheddar. It was over 30 years ago, though.
They send me £7/yr for a pole in my garden.
> in their garden in Cheddar. It was over 30 years ago, though.
You are entitled to it.
All you have to do is ask and it will be sent for ever more.
The local network provider will have a department just for this.
This all came in when the utilities were privatised I think.
Before then, you got nothing
John Williamson
Jan 30, 2014, 5:07:53 AM1/30/14
to
secured by a one off payment, and no rent is payable. The details should
be registered, or if the land is not yet registered, the agreement
should be with the deeds.
--
Tciao for Now!
John.
Graeme
Sep 6, 2017, 3:14:07 PM9/6/17
to
replying to tony sayer, Graeme wrote:
Anyone know the ballpark figure for getting BT to relocate a tensioning wire
off on their poles. All on my land, no way leave, but BT are proving very
combative... Thanks
--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy/telegraph-pole-stay-951683-.htm
Anyone know the ballpark figure for getting BT to relocate a tensioning wire
off on their poles. All on my land, no way leave, but BT are proving very
combative... Thanks
--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy/telegraph-pole-stay-951683-.htm
Brian Gaff
Sep 7, 2017, 2:36:09 AM9/7/17
to
Where did this suddenly appear from... Oh wait its that silly portal again.
Brian
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Brian
--
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This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
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