Moat construction problem

0 views
Skip to first unread message

Jonathan

unread,
Aug 1, 2005, 6:13:42 PM8/1/05
to
For the past three years I have been building an Anglo-Saxon castle in
the garden of my house, using only traditional tools and materials.

Having laid the foundations and dug the moat, I would like to fill the
moat so as to test its integrity (both of itself and against invaders)
before progressing to erecting the walls.

I understand the traditional way of doing this is to tap a river or a
stream, and supplement this with ox-drawn carts filled with barrels of
fresh water. However, being in Brockley, I'm too far from the Thames to
do this (a distance of about 2 miles as the crow flies). There are also
no tube stations near enough for me to tunnel the water from there.
While I think I could construct the necessary carts, I would not have
the space in the remainder of my garden to rear the oxen to draw them.
My neighbours have made some comments on the fact that I have begun
rearing goats and some chickens to produce the considerable tonnage of
dung for wattle daub I will need later on in the construction.

So I am considering using a Chinese technique from about the same
historical era of using giant kites to lift Thames water into place
above the moat and pour it in from there.

Does anyone have any experience with this particular technique (which, I
understand, will require considerable resources and manpower to
implement), or indeed defensive Angle-Saxon moat building in general?

Any advice much appreciated. And if you also have any tips for laying
long-and-short quoins I would also be grateful as my initial attempts at
this were not successful.

Jonathan

Henry

unread,
Aug 1, 2005, 6:19:14 PM8/1/05
to

I didn't think the Anglo-Saxons went in much for castle building. I know
they reused Iron Age and Roman stuff.

What does an Anglo-Saxon castle look like? Can you post your plans
somewhere?

Henry


Hugo Nebula

unread,
Aug 1, 2005, 6:27:15 PM8/1/05
to
On Mon, 01 Aug 2005 23:13:42 +0100, a particular chimpanzee named
Jonathan <sorry@this_is_fake.com> randomly hit the keyboard and
produced:

>For the past three years I have been building an Anglo-Saxon castle in
>the garden of my house, using only traditional tools and materials.

You've probably gone into this already, but I think you should be
aware that if this castle is more than 30m² in floor area or contains
sleeping accommodation, you should have submitted a Building
Regulations application. I'm not sure on whether you need Planning
Permission too. A quick note shot through the window of your Local
Council offices on an arrow would be in order, just to be on the safe
side.
--
Hugo Nebula
"If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this,
just how far from the pack have you strayed?"

Rod

unread,
Aug 1, 2005, 6:33:40 PM8/1/05
to
Jonathan <sorry@this_is_fake.com> wrote in news:42ee9e96$1
@news1.homechoice.co.uk:

> So I am considering using a Chinese technique from about the same
> historical era of using giant kites to lift Thames water into place
> above the moat and pour it in from there.

Well, we have lots and lots of kites. I guess that they are English rather
than Chinese. They are quite large but maybe not quite giant. And red. But
I don't see how you'd train them?

Alternatively, you might fill it with Baileys. I'm sure that I heard
something about that somewhere...
--
Rod

chris...@postmaster.co.uk

unread,
Aug 1, 2005, 6:53:16 PM8/1/05
to

Hugo Nebula wrote:
> On Mon, 01 Aug 2005 23:13:42 +0100, a particular chimpanzee named
> Jonathan <sorry@this_is_fake.com> randomly hit the keyboard and
> produced:
>
> >For the past three years I have been building an Anglo-Saxon castle in
> >the garden of my house, using only traditional tools and materials.
>
> You've probably gone into this already, but I think you should be
> aware that if this castle is more than 30m² in floor area or contains
> sleeping accommodation, you should have submitted a Building
> Regulations application. I'm not sure on whether you need Planning
> Permission too. A quick note shot through the window of your Local
> Council offices on an arrow would be in order, just to be on the safe
> side.

Actually, I think you need to go higher than that. From a visit to
Leeds Castle a while back, ISTR that if you want those fancy
up-and-down walls at the top and cross-shaped windows through which to
fire said arrow, you need a Licence to Crenellate available only on
personal application to the Queen. The penalties for failure in this
respect are somewhat higher than those for normal planning violations,
as who knows what you are up to that needs these fortifications?
Customarily, you would be invited on a one-way trip to examine the
architecture of the Tower of London, entering by a special gate off the
Thames reserved for such guests.

But no doubt you have all this in hand.

Chris

Mike Dodd

unread,
Aug 1, 2005, 7:18:03 PM8/1/05
to
Hugo Nebula wrote:
> On Mon, 01 Aug 2005 23:13:42 +0100, a particular chimpanzee named
> Jonathan <sorry@this_is_fake.com> randomly hit the keyboard and
> produced:
>
>
>>For the past three years I have been building an Anglo-Saxon castle in
>>the garden of my house, using only traditional tools and materials.
>
>
> You've probably gone into this already, but I think you should be
> aware that if this castle is more than 30m² in floor area or contains
> sleeping accommodation, you should have submitted a Building
> Regulations application. I'm not sure on whether you need Planning
> Permission too. A quick note shot through the window of your Local
> Council offices on an arrow would be in order, just to be on the safe
> side.

I'm sure Part-P applies.

raden

unread,
Aug 1, 2005, 7:36:16 PM8/1/05
to
In message <42eeadb9$0$13701$cc9e...@news-text.dial.pipex.com>, Mike
Dodd <no-address@lo0.?.invalid> writes
What, a bit of a portcullis ?

--
geoff

raden

unread,
Aug 1, 2005, 7:36:16 PM8/1/05
to
In message <42ee9e96$1...@news1.homechoice.co.uk>, Jonathan
<sorry@this_is_fake.com> writes

>For the past three years I have been building an Anglo-Saxon castle in
>the garden of my house, using only traditional tools and materials.
>
>Having laid the foundations and dug the moat, I would like to fill the
>moat so as to test its integrity (both of itself and against invaders)
>before progressing to erecting the walls.
>
Be honest, you just want to escape from the wife, don't you

--
geoff

David Lang

unread,
Aug 1, 2005, 7:52:33 PM8/1/05
to

"Jonathan" < wrote in message

> For the past three years I have been building an Anglo-Saxon castle in the
> garden of my house, using only traditional tools and materials.

A likely story. The Saxons didn't build castles. I suspect you are
actually a Norman in disguise.

Own up.

Dave


Paul Herber

unread,
Aug 1, 2005, 8:15:31 PM8/1/05
to
On Mon, 01 Aug 2005 23:13:42 +0100, Jonathan <sorry@this_is_fake.com>
wrote:

>For the past three years I have been building an Anglo-Saxon castle in
>the garden of my house, using only traditional tools and materials.

Please use only sticks and mud for your castles, do not use rock or
metal of any kind. You do not need a moat or any other defences. We
shall visit you as soon as our boats are ready. We will come in peace.

Greetings fra Juteland.
Eirikur Vikingurinn.
>:-)

Andy Dingley

unread,
Aug 1, 2005, 8:44:14 PM8/1/05
to
On Mon, 01 Aug 2005 23:13:42 +0100, Jonathan <sorry@this_is_fake.com>
wrote:

>For the past three years I have been building an Anglo-Saxon castle in

>the garden of my house, using only traditional tools and materials.

Wrong newsgroup. You want stationary engines, obviously.

raden

unread,
Aug 1, 2005, 9:04:43 PM8/1/05
to
In message <2egte15oj10cro3jd...@4ax.com>, Andy Dingley
<din...@codesmiths.com> writes

What, ..

You mean ...

VIKING ?

--
geoff

Robin Mayes

unread,
Aug 1, 2005, 9:33:33 PM8/1/05
to

"Jonathan" <sorry@this_is_fake.com> wrote in message
news:42ee9e96$1...@news1.homechoice.co.uk...

>There are also no tube stations near enough for me to tunnel the water from
there.

I know it's the oldest underground railway, but it's not *THAT* old!


nightjar

unread,
Aug 1, 2005, 9:44:42 PM8/1/05
to

"Jonathan" <sorry@this_is_fake.com> wrote in message
news:42ee9e96$1...@news1.homechoice.co.uk...
> For the past three years I have been building an Anglo-Saxon castle in the
> garden of my house, using only traditional tools and materials.
>
> Having laid the foundations and dug the moat, I would like to fill the
> moat so as to test its integrity (both of itself and against invaders)
> before progressing to erecting the walls....

I suggest you contact the Ministry of Defence. They have recent experience
of using moats to protect buildings, although these days they are designed
to look like ornamental lakes.

Colin Bignell


dennis@home

unread,
Aug 2, 2005, 4:32:53 AM8/2/05
to

"nightjar .uk.com>" <nightjar@<insert my surname here> wrote in message
news:K4WdnZ9qotJ...@giganews.com...

> I suggest you contact the Ministry of Defence. They have recent experience
> of using moats to protect buildings, although these days they are designed
> to look like ornamental lakes.

Having just watched Top Gear and the driving of wheeled vehicles across
Icelandic lakes the MOD may need to reconsider using water for protection.


Rob Morley

unread,
Aug 2, 2005, 6:29:17 AM8/2/05
to
In article <VcGHe.81189$G8.4...@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
"dennis@home" den...@killspam.kicks-ass.net says...
Are you familiar with the expression "sitting ducks"?

The Natural Philosopher

unread,
Aug 2, 2005, 7:24:07 AM8/2/05
to
Jonathan wrote:

You will need CAA approval for any flying machine over 25kg weight loaded.

Owain

unread,
Aug 2, 2005, 8:31:08 AM8/2/05
to
Jonathan wrote:
> So I am considering using a Chinese technique from about the same
> historical era of using giant kites to lift Thames water into place
> above the moat and pour it in from there.

You will probably need a permit to abstract water for moat-filling.

> Does anyone have any experience with this particular technique (which, I
> understand, will require considerable resources and manpower to
> implement), or indeed defensive Angle-Saxon moat building in general?

I would suggest you compromise on authenticity a little and get one of
those self-powered whirly-kites used to drop water on forest fires.

Owain

nightjar

unread,
Aug 2, 2005, 11:36:23 AM8/2/05
to

"dennis@home" <den...@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote in message
news:VcGHe.81189$G8.4...@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...

ISTR that Jeremy Clarkson in a Range Rover failed to outrun a Chieftain tank
in an earlier programme and that was with cover available.

Colin Bignell


David Lang

unread,
Aug 2, 2005, 12:35:13 PM8/2/05
to
Hwæt! Wé Gárdena in géardagum þéodcyninga þrym gefrúnon. hú ðá æþelingas
ellen fremedon.

Oft Scyld Scéfing sceaþena þréatum monger maégþum meodosetla oftéah· egsode
Eorle syððan aérest wearð

Dave


raden

unread,
Aug 2, 2005, 3:28:27 PM8/2/05
to
In message <5hNHe.74$Rk2...@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>, David Lang
<davi...@blueyonder.co.uk> writes
I was just going to say that

--
geoff

Chris McBrien

unread,
Aug 2, 2005, 4:49:32 PM8/2/05
to
Great suggestion, to fill it with Baileys.

Then he'd have a Moat & Baileys Castle.

It is the way I tell 'em.

Chris.


x-- 100 Proof News - http://www.100ProofNews.com
x-- 30+ Days Binary Retention with High Completion
x-- Access to over 1.9 Terabytes per Day - $8.95/Month
x-- UNLIMITED DOWNLOAD

David Lang

unread,
Aug 3, 2005, 4:50:57 AM8/3/05
to

"raden" wrote in message

>>
> I was just going to say that


Thanks Geoff, I was beginning to think it was only me.

Dave


Bob Smith (UK)

unread,
Aug 3, 2005, 5:47:25 AM8/3/05
to

"Hugo Nebula" <abuse@localhost> wrote in message
news:k48te1hq834ajj5jl...@4ax.com...

> On Mon, 01 Aug 2005 23:13:42 +0100, a particular chimpanzee named
> Jonathan <sorry@this_is_fake.com> randomly hit the keyboard and
> produced:
>
>>For the past three years I have been building an Anglo-Saxon castle in
>>the garden of my house, using only traditional tools and materials.
>
> You've probably gone into this already, but I think you should be
> aware that if this castle is more than 30m² in floor area or contains
> sleeping accommodation, you should have submitted a Building
> Regulations application. I'm not sure on whether you need Planning
> Permission too. A quick note shot through the window of your Local
> Council offices on an arrow would be in order, just to be on the safe
> side.

If he follows standard procedure and builds it out of wood while the motte
settles, it is a temporary building. ISTR that you don't need planning
permission for this.

When the final phase is complete, and the keep is rebuilt in stone, any
visit from the council can be repelled using boiling oil and archers [1].

Bob

[1] Not Archers the tipple, bowpersons (thinking of the Baileys subthread).


John Rumm

unread,
Aug 3, 2005, 7:14:50 AM8/3/05
to
Bob Smith (UK) wrote:

> When the final phase is complete, and the keep is rebuilt in stone, any
> visit from the council can be repelled using boiling oil and archers [1].

Would "3 in 1" be an acceptable oil, or do you require some form of
animal fat? Spose it depends on the BCO?

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

Martin Bonner

unread,
Aug 3, 2005, 9:49:00 AM8/3/05
to

Very good!

(Any chance of a translation for those us that that can only read a few
words of Anglo Saxon)

Harry Bloomfield

unread,
Aug 5, 2005, 3:18:52 PM8/5/05
to
on 03/08/2005, Bob Smith (UK) supposed :

> When the final phase is complete, and the keep is rebuilt in stone, any visit
> from the council can be repelled using boiling oil and archers [1].

I understand the Archers is still broadcast on Radio 4 in the
afternoon, but I didn't know it was so bad that it could be used as a
weapon to repel boarders.

--

Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.org


Bob Smith (UK)

unread,
Aug 6, 2005, 8:06:42 PM8/6/05
to

"Harry Bloomfield" <harry.m1...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
news:mn.2cc27d589...@tiscali.co.uk...

> on 03/08/2005, Bob Smith (UK) supposed :
>> When the final phase is complete, and the keep is rebuilt in stone, any
>> visit from the council can be repelled using boiling oil and archers [1].
>
> I understand the Archers is still broadcast on Radio 4 in the afternoon,
> but I didn't know it was so bad that it could be used as a weapon to repel
> boarders.
>
That would be Archers again, not archers. They may well bore an enemy to
death though.

Bob


Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages