What use is sugar soap?

[Another John]

I asked this before, but some time ago because my news server doesn't
have the thread. I've forgotten what people's comments were.

Sugar soap is sold as "the perfect preparation for painting ... simply
wash over the area to be painted .... no need to rinse ... provides a
key for the new paint..." etc etc.

Well every time I use it (including this evening), I can never detect
the slightest difference in the area being prepared. Sure, it's cleaner
(as indeed it would be if I'd washed it over with warm water) but I can
neither see nor feel a "key" for new paint. I'll be undercoating before
glossing, but I do wonder if I can miss out the sugar-soap bit in future.

Any comments folks?
Ta,
John

[Phil L]

I've no idea where this old wives tale came from but of all the painters
I've worked with over the past 35 years, I've never known any of them to use
sugar soap

[ss]

On 05/01/2016 20:58, Chris Hogg wrote:
> but I can
>>neither see nor feel a "key" for new paint.

I have to agree from my experience. I reckon a couple of quick passes
with fine sandpaper will give a better key.

[Tim Watts]

I used sugar soap on an area known to be greasy and it worked a lot
better than Flash.

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, 5 January 2016 20:50:43 UTC, Phil L wrote:
> Another John wrote:

> > Sugar soap is sold as "the perfect preparation for painting ... simply

> I've no idea where this old wives tale came from but of all the painters
> I've worked with over the past 35 years, I've never known any of them to use
> sugar soap

It's good for nicotine stains fwiw.


NT

[PeterC]

Looked at once - said "rinse thoroughly". Only way to do that is with a hose
pipe!
Used Star Drops with good results (water-based gloss on a hand rail OK after
about 22 years), but the mdern version seems weaker and might not be the
same stuff at all.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

[Thomas Prufer]

On Tue, 05 Jan 2016 20:58:13 +0000, Chris Hogg <m...@privacy.net> wrote:

>This may interest: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugar_soap

I have used TSP, trisodium phosphate, containing just that, not an imitation.

This will take off grease, and it will also etch (most/many/not necessarily all)
oil-based gloss paints -- and also glass, sometimes...

It most definitely needs to be washed off carefully, and the trouble this causes
needs to weighed against the work savings vs. a wipe with washing-up and/or
sandpaper.


Thomas Prufer

[stuart noble]

+1. TSP used to be the main ingredient but, since the outlawing of
phosphates, it's just surfactants and abrasive. Was only ever
justifiable on greasy surfaces

[Another John]

In article <75rp8b9e6j4uj7pmq...@4ax.com>,

Thomas Prufer <prufer...@mnet-online.de.invalid> wrote:

> On Tue, 05 Jan 2016 20:58:13 +0000, Chris Hogg <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>
> >This may interest: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugar_soap
>
> I have used TSP, trisodium phosphate, containing just that, not an imitation.
>
> This will take off grease, and it will also etch (most/many/not necessarily
> all) oil-based gloss paints -- and also glass, sometimes...
>

> It most definitely needs to be washed off carefully, ...

Well (reading the Wikipedia article that Chris pointed us to) if it's
TSP, then rinsing off would indeed seem advisable. However the bottles
of sugar soap that I have had now and in the past have always said "No
need to rinse!"

This discussion has been useful for me -- thanks chaps. I won't be
using it in the future -- just the more traditional methods of cleaning
and keying old gloss paint.

Cheers
John

[newshound]

+1, though I havn't compared it with Cillit Bang.

In the nuclear power business, surfactants are used to remove
radioactive materials from paint and metal surfaces. A few years ago
Sellafield ran a comprehensive trial of their "industrial" cleaners and
some domestic products. Cillit Bang was the clear winner.

[Thomas Prufer]

On Wed, 06 Jan 2016 15:24:55 +0000, Another John <lal...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Well (reading the Wikipedia article that Chris pointed us to) if it's
>TSP, then rinsing off would indeed seem advisable. However the bottles
>of sugar soap that I have had now and in the past have always said "No
>need to rinse!"
>
>This discussion has been useful for me -- thanks chaps. I won't be
>using it in the future -- just the more traditional methods of cleaning
>and keying old gloss paint.

Dishwashing machine detergent is a useful substitute for TSP. Cuts grease, and,
like TSP, may roughen paints. (Another one to try is soda -- sodium carbonate).

Thomas Prufer

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, 6 January 2016 16:51:38 UTC, Thomas Prufer wrote:

> Dishwashing machine detergent is a useful substitute for TSP. Cuts grease, and,
> like TSP, may roughen paints.

last time I looked it still contained TSP.


NT

[stuart noble]

How impressive is that in a funny sort of way

[harry]

It's primarily used in kitchens to de-grease walls & ceilings etc. prior to repainting.
'Spect there's better stuff nowadays.

[Mr Pounder Esquire]

It worked well in our kitchen.

[Adam Aglionby]

Thats why Barry Scott was shouting, had to be heard in portective suit " Bang! and the plutomium is gone..."

[rick]

I find it a great cleaner .... is excellent for prep of walls before
painting .... really cleans them well

[ddown...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, 5 January 2016 20:42:52 UTC, Another John wrote:

Yes, I've been familiar with it from a young age. It's primarily washing soda which is very alkaline and cuts through grease. The 'sugar' bit refers to the abrasive material added. You may want to wash dirty woodwork before you sand down. Perhaps walls are stained, which you want to clean as you don't want stains to bleed through. However, you can get away without using it. I've just bought some TSP. I wonder if it's more effective than sugar soap.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <fc3df2cf-a4c9-48fe...@googlegroups.com>,

The paint this post refers to will have fallen off by now. ;-)

--
*If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate *

Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Scott]

Does it not also exclude some ingredient (phosphate?) that is bad for
paint?

[Andrew]

If it was water-based gloss or cheap 'emulsion' paint, sugar soap
removes it very quickly. Doesn't do your skin much good either.

[Andrew]

Since the whole point of using it is to as part of the overall
preparation for repainting, that's not such an issue.

very effective at removing nicotine from painted surfaces.

[ddown...@gmail.com]

Well, since I got it from eBay (2 kg) from a Chemical company I'm presuming it's true Na₃PO₄.
I've actually emailed them for the SDS to be sure. I'm presuming the phosphate will have a different effect than carbonate/s found in sugar soap but I guess only experience will tell.

[ddown...@gmail.com]

Haha, no doubt.

[ddown...@gmail.com]

That's good to know.

[Scott]

Yes it is, if it avoids the need for lots of rinsing to remove the
remains of the detergent.

[patric...@hotmail.co.uk]

My understanding is
sugar soaps, depending on brand, main ingredient is sodium phosphate.
TSP is Tri sodium phosphate and is used in labs to clean walls before painting.