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Temporary electricity supply.
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Dave Plowman (News)
May 12, 2022, 6:11:18 AM5/12/22
to
Back story.
Next door neighbour is a widow near 90 living on her own. Very stubborn.
Was born in her house and wants to die in it. Totally housebound and won't
have any visitors since Covid. So haven't even spoken to her for a couple
of years. Sad, as we got on well enough. She has family who call in every
day, though.
Last week a pipe in the cellar split and flooded it - and next door's
cellar too. Daughter waded into the cellar to turn off the water and got a
bad electric shock. Ended up in A&E - but on the mend now.
Service suppliers cut off both the water and electricity. Insurance are
meant to be pumping out the water, but nothing done as yet.
Son in law has been keeping me updated. When he said the power was off, I
ran a cable reel to their kitchen from my house (fed from an MCBO
protected ring) So at least she can watch TV - the only thing she does
now. And a table light and the microwave. So she can have hot drinks and
meals. Using bottled water, etc. Her cooker is electric, but does have a
gas fire in the kitchen which works.
She refuses to go in a home of any sort. Her kids simply don't have room
for her - and she is adamant she doesn't want to live with either of them
anyway (I'm told) One of the daughters has lost patience and hardly ever
calls.
The pipe should be easy enough to fix once the cellar is dry enough.
The electrics I know to be a total loss - all the lighting is pre-WW2, but
a ring was added by her husband in the 60s. And she isn't willing to pay
for a re-wire or put up with the disruption it would cause. A quote one of
the kids got was 12K.
Is it possible to get a temporary supply laid on? If only the ring was
connected to it that would be good enough for now.
She has agreed to move to a smaller place if one can be found nearby. And
sell the house to pay for it. But I reckon something needs to be done
sooner to make life bearable until then - ie just the same for her as it
has been for the past two years. As moving is likely not going to be done
quickly.
--
*Prepositions are not words to end sentences with *
Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Next door neighbour is a widow near 90 living on her own. Very stubborn.
Was born in her house and wants to die in it. Totally housebound and won't
have any visitors since Covid. So haven't even spoken to her for a couple
of years. Sad, as we got on well enough. She has family who call in every
day, though.
Last week a pipe in the cellar split and flooded it - and next door's
cellar too. Daughter waded into the cellar to turn off the water and got a
bad electric shock. Ended up in A&E - but on the mend now.
Service suppliers cut off both the water and electricity. Insurance are
meant to be pumping out the water, but nothing done as yet.
Son in law has been keeping me updated. When he said the power was off, I
ran a cable reel to their kitchen from my house (fed from an MCBO
protected ring) So at least she can watch TV - the only thing she does
now. And a table light and the microwave. So she can have hot drinks and
meals. Using bottled water, etc. Her cooker is electric, but does have a
gas fire in the kitchen which works.
She refuses to go in a home of any sort. Her kids simply don't have room
for her - and she is adamant she doesn't want to live with either of them
anyway (I'm told) One of the daughters has lost patience and hardly ever
calls.
The pipe should be easy enough to fix once the cellar is dry enough.
The electrics I know to be a total loss - all the lighting is pre-WW2, but
a ring was added by her husband in the 60s. And she isn't willing to pay
for a re-wire or put up with the disruption it would cause. A quote one of
the kids got was 12K.
Is it possible to get a temporary supply laid on? If only the ring was
connected to it that would be good enough for now.
She has agreed to move to a smaller place if one can be found nearby. And
sell the house to pay for it. But I reckon something needs to be done
sooner to make life bearable until then - ie just the same for her as it
has been for the past two years. As moving is likely not going to be done
quickly.
--
*Prepositions are not words to end sentences with *
Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
N_Cook
May 12, 2022, 6:18:08 AM5/12/22
to
was ok for Alan Bennet's lady in the van
--
Global sea level rise to 2100 from curve-fitted existing altimetry data
<http://diverse.4mg.com/slr.htm>
Colin Bignell
May 12, 2022, 6:37:51 AM5/12/22
to
On 12/05/2022 11:11, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
wiring was deemed to be unsafe and I suspect we were a lot more
accommodating than they are today.
In any case, if the water in the basement was live, the ring is probably
out of action until that is pumped out. Do you know any firemen?
>
> She has agreed to move to a smaller place if one can be found nearby. And
> sell the house to pay for it. But I reckon something needs to be done
> sooner to make life bearable until then - ie just the same for her as it
> has been for the past two years. As moving is likely not going to be done
> quickly.
>
--
Robin
May 12, 2022, 6:42:51 AM5/12/22
to
On 12/05/2022 11:11, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
1. I'd have done what you did but can't see how anyone with an eye to
their professional liability would dare leave her with anything other
than a temporary CU covering ring plus lighting, with main bonding and
all. If the incomer is in the cellar and under water what's that? A
temporary sub-main from next door?
2. she and you swap houses. A change is as good as a rest so it's
win-win :)
3. sometimes old people are more inclined to listen to someone official.
E.g. GP or social services (but good luck getting the latter to even
answer the phone).
--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid
Theo
May 12, 2022, 7:19:28 AM5/12/22
to
Robin <r...@outlook.com> wrote:
> 1. I'd have done what you did but can't see how anyone with an eye to
> their professional liability would dare leave her with anything other
> than a temporary CU covering ring plus lighting, with main bonding and
> all. If the incomer is in the cellar and under water what's that? A
> temporary sub-main from next door?
I wonder if someone could do a minimalist install. A basic CU at ground
> 1. I'd have done what you did but can't see how anyone with an eye to
> their professional liability would dare leave her with anything other
> than a temporary CU covering ring plus lighting, with main bonding and
> all. If the incomer is in the cellar and under water what's that? A
> temporary sub-main from next door?
floor level, wiring all surface clipped. Would need some holes drilling to
go between rooms but otherwise no attempt at tidy cable running. Then it
just leaves the issue of the incoming feed, which could be from your CU
(with meter) until such time as the supplier can sort something out. Or a
generator perhaps.
(I viewed a house like that - the owner had attempted a DIY refurb and got
themselves in too deep. I think this was their 'temporary' solution)
> 2. she and you swap houses. A change is as good as a rest so it's
> win-win :)
Theo
Tim+
May 12, 2022, 7:40:44 AM5/12/22
to
Dave Plowman (News) <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
> Back story.
> Next door neighbour is a widow near 90 living on her own. Very stubborn.
> Was born in her house and wants to die in it.
My mum (96) was in her own flat until December last year. Determined that
> Back story.
> Next door neighbour is a widow near 90 living on her own. Very stubborn.
> Was born in her house and wants to die in it.
was where she wanted to be and to enable this, we had organised live-in
carers for the last two years. She clearly wasn’t happy but this was she
said she wanted. Resisted any suggestion that she was ready for a home.
Last December she ended up in hospital and we took the opportunity to get
her discharged to a home, ostensibly as an interim measure until she was
fit to return home.
Well, she’s happier and healthier in the care home than she’s been in a
very long time and hasn’t asked about returning to her flat once.
To be honest, I not sure if there are any transferable lessons to be drawn
from this other than perhaps that fear of change outweighs any rational
thought about any possible benefits from a change.
Even with hindsight, I don’t think we could have moved my mother sooner,
even though it could have saved her months/years of loneliness. In your
neighbours case it sound like it’ll take a similar crisis to precipitate a
move away from her home.
shoogly ground legally doing it for anyone else. I suppose a professional
sparky could perhaps legally make the wiring “safe” by disconnecting
everything pre-WW2 and checking the ring to see if it meets minimum
standards. I’m sure Adam can advise.
>
> She has agreed to move to a smaller place if one can be found nearby. And
> sell the house to pay for it. But I reckon something needs to be done
> sooner to make life bearable until then - ie just the same for her as it
> has been for the past two years. As moving is likely not going to be done
> quickly.
>
keep in touch with her and make sure she’s okay.
Tim
--
Please don't feed the trolls
Andrew
May 12, 2022, 10:14:58 AM5/12/22
to
On 12/05/2022 11:18, N_Cook wrote:
> Any space for a caravan or even mobile home (don't tell the social ), it
> was ok for Alan Bennet's lady in the van
>
>
This is SouthWest LOndon, and probably a terraced house that even in
> Any space for a caravan or even mobile home (don't tell the social ), it
> was ok for Alan Bennet's lady in the van
>
>
its current condition would have buyers fighting to buy, and pay
silly money that would buy a really nice place further away from
London.
Andrew
May 12, 2022, 10:19:05 AM5/12/22
to
On 12/05/2022 11:11, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> The electrics I know to be a total loss - all the lighting is pre-WW2, but
> a ring was added by her husband in the 60s. And she isn't willing to pay
> for a re-wire or put up with the disruption it would cause. A quote one of
> the kids got was 12K.
>
But this is London, so take that quote with the usual dose of salt.
> a ring was added by her husband in the 60s. And she isn't willing to pay
> for a re-wire or put up with the disruption it would cause. A quote one of
> the kids got was 12K.
>
ARW
May 12, 2022, 2:04:19 PM5/12/22
to
On 12/05/2022 12:19, Theo wrote:
> Robin <r...@outlook.com> wrote:
>> 1. I'd have done what you did but can't see how anyone with an eye to
>> their professional liability would dare leave her with anything other
>> than a temporary CU covering ring plus lighting, with main bonding and
>> all. If the incomer is in the cellar and under water what's that? A
>> temporary sub-main from next door?
>
> I wonder if someone could do a minimalist install. A basic CU at ground
> floor level, wiring all surface clipped. Would need some holes drilling to
> go between rooms but otherwise no attempt at tidy cable running. Then it
> just leaves the issue of the incoming feed, which could be from your CU
> (with meter) until such time as the supplier can sort something out. Or a
> generator perhaps.
>
> (I viewed a house like that - the owner had attempted a DIY refurb and got
> themselves in too deep. I think this was their 'temporary' solution)
I once did something the same but with trunking.
> Robin <r...@outlook.com> wrote:
>> 1. I'd have done what you did but can't see how anyone with an eye to
>> their professional liability would dare leave her with anything other
>> than a temporary CU covering ring plus lighting, with main bonding and
>> all. If the incomer is in the cellar and under water what's that? A
>> temporary sub-main from next door?
>
> I wonder if someone could do a minimalist install. A basic CU at ground
> floor level, wiring all surface clipped. Would need some holes drilling to
> go between rooms but otherwise no attempt at tidy cable running. Then it
> just leaves the issue of the incoming feed, which could be from your CU
> (with meter) until such time as the supplier can sort something out. Or a
> generator perhaps.
>
> (I viewed a house like that - the owner had attempted a DIY refurb and got
> themselves in too deep. I think this was their 'temporary' solution)
The electricity co will take no time to swap the cutout once the cellar
is pumped out.
Robin
May 12, 2022, 3:47:37 PM5/12/22
to
On 12/05/2022 19:04, ARW wrote:
<snip>
her supplier on notice to get it replaced?
That's based on my assumption that even in such cases UK Power Networks
will do everything up to and including the meter board but not the meter
itself.
<snip>
>
> The electricity co will take no time to swap the cutout once the cellar
> is pumped out.
>
Which prompts a question for Dave: was the meter flooded and if so is
> The electricity co will take no time to swap the cutout once the cellar
> is pumped out.
>
her supplier on notice to get it replaced?
That's based on my assumption that even in such cases UK Power Networks
will do everything up to and including the meter board but not the meter
itself.
lacksey
May 12, 2022, 3:58:28 PM5/12/22
to
On Thu, 12 May 2022 21:40:38 +1000, Tim+ <tim.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dave Plowman (News) <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
>> Back story.
>> Next door neighbour is a widow near 90 living on her own. Very stubborn.
>> Was born in her house and wants to die in it.
>
> My mum (96) was in her own flat until December last year. Determined
> that
> was where she wanted to be and to enable this, we had organised live-in
> carers for the last two years. She clearly wasn’t happy but this was she
> said she wanted. Resisted any suggestion that she was ready for a home.
>
> Last December she ended up in hospital and we took the opportunity to get
> her discharged to a home, ostensibly as an interim measure until she was
> fit to return home.
>
> Well, she’s happier and healthier in the care home than she’s been in a
> very long time and hasn’t asked about returning to her flat once.
But it is silly to assume that everyone would react the same way.
> Dave Plowman (News) <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
>> Back story.
>> Next door neighbour is a widow near 90 living on her own. Very stubborn.
>> Was born in her house and wants to die in it.
>
> My mum (96) was in her own flat until December last year. Determined
> that
> was where she wanted to be and to enable this, we had organised live-in
> carers for the last two years. She clearly wasn’t happy but this was she
> said she wanted. Resisted any suggestion that she was ready for a home.
>
> Last December she ended up in hospital and we took the opportunity to get
> her discharged to a home, ostensibly as an interim measure until she was
> fit to return home.
>
> Well, she’s happier and healthier in the care home than she’s been in a
> very long time and hasn’t asked about returning to her flat once.
Tim+
May 12, 2022, 4:10:07 PM5/12/22
to
lacksey <lki...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 12 May 2022 21:40:38 +1000, Tim+ <tim.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dave Plowman (News) <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Back story.
>>> Next door neighbour is a widow near 90 living on her own. Very stubborn.
>>> Was born in her house and wants to die in it.
>>
>> My mum (96) was in her own flat until December last year. Determined
>> that
>> was where she wanted to be and to enable this, we had organised live-in
>> carers for the last two years. She clearly wasn’t happy but this was she
>> said she wanted. Resisted any suggestion that she was ready for a home.
>>
>> Last December she ended up in hospital and we took the opportunity to get
>> her discharged to a home, ostensibly as an interim measure until she was
>> fit to return home.
>>
>> Well, she’s happier and healthier in the care home than she’s been in a
>> very long time and hasn’t asked about returning to her flat once.
>
> But it is silly to assume that everyone would react the same way.
See below. I never suggested that everyone would. Still, your reading
> On Thu, 12 May 2022 21:40:38 +1000, Tim+ <tim.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dave Plowman (News) <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Back story.
>>> Next door neighbour is a widow near 90 living on her own. Very stubborn.
>>> Was born in her house and wants to die in it.
>>
>> My mum (96) was in her own flat until December last year. Determined
>> that
>> was where she wanted to be and to enable this, we had organised live-in
>> carers for the last two years. She clearly wasn’t happy but this was she
>> said she wanted. Resisted any suggestion that she was ready for a home.
>>
>> Last December she ended up in hospital and we took the opportunity to get
>> her discharged to a home, ostensibly as an interim measure until she was
>> fit to return home.
>>
>> Well, she’s happier and healthier in the care home than she’s been in a
>> very long time and hasn’t asked about returning to her flat once.
>
> But it is silly to assume that everyone would react the same way.
skills were never your strong point Wodney.
>
>> To be honest, I not sure if there are any transferable lessons to be
>> drawn
>> from this other than perhaps that fear of change outweighs any rational
>> thought about any possible benefits from a change.
>>
>> Even with hindsight, I don’t think we could have moved my mother sooner,
>> even though it could have saved her months/years of loneliness. In your
>> neighbours case it sound like it’ll take a similar crisis to precipitate
>> a
>> move away from her home.
Peeler
May 12, 2022, 4:13:38 PM5/12/22
to
On Fri, 13 May 2022 05:58:19 +1000, lacksey, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:
<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>
--
FredXX to Rodent Speed:
"You are still an idiot and an embarrassment to your country. No wonder
we shipped the likes of you out of the British Isles. Perhaps stupidity
and criminality is inherited after all?"
Message-ID: <plbf76$gfl$1...@dont-email.me>
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:
<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>
--
FredXX to Rodent Speed:
"You are still an idiot and an embarrassment to your country. No wonder
we shipped the likes of you out of the British Isles. Perhaps stupidity
and criminality is inherited after all?"
Message-ID: <plbf76$gfl$1...@dont-email.me>
Animal
May 12, 2022, 5:13:53 PM5/12/22
to
To reconnect supply the install only has to be 'safe'. A minimal install is not too much work, maybe a double socket per room, and preferably 1 light, all surface, plus CH feed.
Theo
May 12, 2022, 5:46:25 PM5/12/22
to
ARW <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> I once did something the same but with trunking.
>
> The electricity co will take no time to swap the cutout once the cellar
> is pumped out.
If it were me I'd be tempted to find a location on the ground floor exterior
> I once did something the same but with trunking.
>
> The electricity co will take no time to swap the cutout once the cellar
> is pumped out.
for a meter box, with a CU inside somewhere nearby. Maybe the insurance
would pay?
But I think you're right that the incomer is probably OK once dried out and
the DNO will fit a new meter board and cutout. So you don't need a new
incomer. It's not like flooding is a regular occurrence here, where it
might be advisable to move it.
I forget the regs, is there any issue with having the meter somewhere
distant from the cutout, assuming suitably robust cable? For example if the
householder can't get down the stairs into the cellar any more, could it be
moved to the ground floor next to a new CU? A smart meter shouldn't need to
be accessible for meter readers in person, but sometimes suppliers still ask
for readings (eg when changing supplier).
Either way, a new CU inside plus a few sockets with surface wiring would be
a lot cheaper than a full rewire. Might have to do something about
lighting, but maybe a few wall lights?
Theo
Mark Carver
May 13, 2022, 4:51:45 AM5/13/22
to
On 12/05/2022 20:47, Robin wrote:
> On 12/05/2022 19:04, ARW wrote:
> <snip>
>>
>> The electricity co will take no time to swap the cutout once the
>> cellar is pumped out.
>>
>
> Which prompts a question for Dave: was the meter flooded and if so is
> her supplier on notice to get it replaced?
>
> That's based on my assumption that even in such cases UK Power
> Networks will do everything up to and including the meter board but
> not the meter itself.
>
The meters are no longer owned by the DNOs, it's the energy suppliers
> On 12/05/2022 19:04, ARW wrote:
> <snip>
>>
>> The electricity co will take no time to swap the cutout once the
>> cellar is pumped out.
>>
>
> Which prompts a question for Dave: was the meter flooded and if so is
> her supplier on notice to get it replaced?
>
> That's based on my assumption that even in such cases UK Power
> Networks will do everything up to and including the meter board but
> not the meter itself.
>
now (and if the same 'company' as the DNO, then it's the retail arm, and
not the 'network' arm you need to talk to)
Robin
May 13, 2022, 5:22:17 AM5/13/22
to
install a temporary meter in emergencies - possibly at a price to the
user - prompted by the way suppliers cannot arbitrarily refuse to let
customers provide their own meters.
Theo
May 13, 2022, 5:24:04 AM5/13/22
to
board and cutout, but presumably won't wire anything past the cutout since
that's the energy supplier's responsibility. Which leaves you without a
working supply until your supplier can visit to install a new meter.
I contacted the late unlamented Symbio about doing something (non-emergency)
to my meter and they replied about three weeks later. So wouldn't have held
out much hope of them attending in a timely manner.
I'm not sure if there's anyone who takes charge here, or is the 90 year old
supposed to coordinate between supplier and DNO?
Theo
SH
May 13, 2022, 6:26:05 AM5/13/22
to
her senior citizen status to get a priority appointment?
Colin Bignell
May 13, 2022, 6:41:35 AM5/13/22
to
ever there was one.
--
Colin Bignell
Robin
May 13, 2022, 8:29:43 AM5/13/22
to
On 13/05/2022 11:41, Colin Bignell wrote:
>
> I would be talking to the local media by now. A human interest story, if
> ever there was one.
>
Although the full story may be less interesting - e.g. if the insurance
>
> I would be talking to the local media by now. A human interest story, if
> ever there was one.
>
company said straight away they would pay for her to move into a decent
hotel until the cellar was pumped and power restored.
Theo
May 13, 2022, 8:58:23 AM5/13/22
to
Robin <r...@outlook.com> wrote:
> On 13/05/2022 11:41, Colin Bignell wrote:
> >
> > I would be talking to the local media by now. A human interest story, if
> > ever there was one.
> >
>
> Although the full story may be less interesting - e.g. if the insurance
> company said straight away they would pay for her to move into a decent
> hotel until the cellar was pumped and power restored.
Yes, it does depend rather what they asked for and what was offered. If the
> On 13/05/2022 11:41, Colin Bignell wrote:
> >
> > I would be talking to the local media by now. A human interest story, if
> > ever there was one.
> >
>
> Although the full story may be less interesting - e.g. if the insurance
> company said straight away they would pay for her to move into a decent
> hotel until the cellar was pumped and power restored.
resident insisted on staying, despite the place being unsanitary, there's
not much the insurance can do. Or the resident said they could handle it
themselves and didn't want to involve the insurance.
Unfortunately handling this kind of thing does require being on the ball
about making the phone calls etc, and that is something a 90 year may not
cope with. It sounds like one of the daughters is on the case so that's
good (although perhaps not if they were in hospital), but if they weren't
I'm not sure there is somebody who will automatically take charge of
managing a case like that. Maybe Social Services or similar? Somebody
would have to contact them in the first place though.
(Having dealt with a case like this, there's a whole patchwork of insurance
assessors, claims handling companies, approved contractors for cleanups, etc
etc, which makes it a quite complicated job to sort out. They are not
proactive, you have to phone them up and pester them. And it may not be
the case that the insurance will pay all the costs upfront, they might
expect you to pay and then claim back later - which is difficult if you have
no spare cash)
At the end of the day, if the resident is unwilling it can be very difficult
for people to help.
Theo
Animal
May 13, 2022, 9:00:56 AM5/13/22
to
Dave Plowman (News)
May 13, 2022, 9:34:08 AM5/13/22
to
In article <d5a2b32d-38c8-c742...@outlook.com>,
--
*If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving definitely isn't for you *
Robin <r...@outlook.com> wrote:
> On 13/05/2022 11:41, Colin Bignell wrote:
> >
> > I would be talking to the local media by now. A human interest story, if
> > ever there was one.
> >
> Although the full story may be less interesting - e.g. if the insurance
> company said straight away they would pay for her to move into a decent
> hotel until the cellar was pumped and power restored.
Yes they did. She refused.
> On 13/05/2022 11:41, Colin Bignell wrote:
> >
> > I would be talking to the local media by now. A human interest story, if
> > ever there was one.
> >
> Although the full story may be less interesting - e.g. if the insurance
> company said straight away they would pay for her to move into a decent
> hotel until the cellar was pumped and power restored.
--
*If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving definitely isn't for you *
Dave Plowman (News)
May 13, 2022, 9:52:14 AM5/13/22
to
Just a general answer based on my memory. Several years ago I installed
for her an extra 13 amp socket and a phone outlet for a DECT phone.
I don't think the cable, riser, meter or fuse boxes were under water. They
are all close to the cellar ceiling, and the water didn't get that high.
if it had, it would have been impossible to get to the internal stopcock.
As I remember it, the ring was likely 50s or 60s. Those rather nasty
surface mount MK sockets. But PVC wiring. Earthed only to the incoming
water main. A 30 amp fuse switch via a Henlec block. And another for the
cooker.
I'd say they would pass tests (except for the earth)
What I was hoping for would be a way to re-connect them and not the
lighting. She more or less lives in the kitchen/breakfast room which has a
cloakroom attached. At the moment that loo is still flushing from the
header tank. But likely not for much longer. She hasn't been able to get
upstairs for a couple of years now.
There's some disagreement within the family about the best way forward.
All I'm trying to get help with is to get the best for my neighbour who is
to put it bluntly, stubborn. But part of her charm. And suggest, if asked.
A story about that stubbornness.
The garden wall between us is mine. Original, and made from cast concrete.
About a meter high between the gardens (and that was in excellent
condition) but twice that height between the houses - for privacy. And the
high part poor. I had it rebuilt (with new foundations) in blockwork and
rendered to match the existing. She wouldn't allow the workmen in to
render her side. Never said why. But of course her side of the wall now
looks distinctly odd.
--
*Could it be that "I do " is the longest sentence? *
for her an extra 13 amp socket and a phone outlet for a DECT phone.
I don't think the cable, riser, meter or fuse boxes were under water. They
are all close to the cellar ceiling, and the water didn't get that high.
if it had, it would have been impossible to get to the internal stopcock.
As I remember it, the ring was likely 50s or 60s. Those rather nasty
surface mount MK sockets. But PVC wiring. Earthed only to the incoming
water main. A 30 amp fuse switch via a Henlec block. And another for the
cooker.
I'd say they would pass tests (except for the earth)
What I was hoping for would be a way to re-connect them and not the
lighting. She more or less lives in the kitchen/breakfast room which has a
cloakroom attached. At the moment that loo is still flushing from the
header tank. But likely not for much longer. She hasn't been able to get
upstairs for a couple of years now.
There's some disagreement within the family about the best way forward.
All I'm trying to get help with is to get the best for my neighbour who is
to put it bluntly, stubborn. But part of her charm. And suggest, if asked.
A story about that stubbornness.
The garden wall between us is mine. Original, and made from cast concrete.
About a meter high between the gardens (and that was in excellent
condition) but twice that height between the houses - for privacy. And the
high part poor. I had it rebuilt (with new foundations) in blockwork and
rendered to match the existing. She wouldn't allow the workmen in to
render her side. Never said why. But of course her side of the wall now
looks distinctly odd.
--
*Could it be that "I do " is the longest sentence? *
Theo
May 13, 2022, 10:21:05 AM5/13/22
to
"Dave Plowman (News)" <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
> Just a general answer based on my memory. Several years ago I installed
> for her an extra 13 amp socket and a phone outlet for a DECT phone.
>
> I don't think the cable, riser, meter or fuse boxes were under water. They
> are all close to the cellar ceiling, and the water didn't get that high.
> if it had, it would have been impossible to get to the internal stopcock.
Presumably there was some outlet in the cellar, which is how the water
> for her an extra 13 amp socket and a phone outlet for a DECT phone.
>
> I don't think the cable, riser, meter or fuse boxes were under water. They
> are all close to the cellar ceiling, and the water didn't get that high.
> if it had, it would have been impossible to get to the internal stopcock.
became live? And without an RCD it stayed that way?
> As I remember it, the ring was likely 50s or 60s. Those rather nasty
> surface mount MK sockets. But PVC wiring. Earthed only to the incoming
> water main. A 30 amp fuse switch via a Henlec block. And another for the
> cooker.
blocks from the meter?
> I'd say they would pass tests (except for the earth)
>
> What I was hoping for would be a way to re-connect them and not the
> lighting. She more or less lives in the kitchen/breakfast room which has a
> cloakroom attached. At the moment that loo is still flushing from the
> header tank. But likely not for much longer. She hasn't been able to get
> upstairs for a couple of years now.
single MCB+RCD or RCBO way wouldn't seem complicated. The earthing would need
sorting out, but perhaps there's an earth off the incomer? If there is only
an earth rod, perhaps the DNO could convert it to PME when they come to
refit the cutout?
If the cooker wiring isn't good, run a new wire in surface trunking.
Likewise for the lighting. Total three RCBOs, £25 each. Probably another
£50 for a cheapo CU and a main switch.
I'd imagine around here the work would be sub £1000 depending on the cable
runs and other fiddliness - although I'm not familiar with London prices.
If they get a sparky in, they can do the work and coordinate with the DNO to
reconnect once everything is safe.
Theo
Robin
May 13, 2022, 10:36:34 AM5/13/22
to
least) *but* won't be done unless and until main bonding is up to
current requirements.
> If the cooker wiring isn't good, run a new wire in surface trunking.
> Likewise for the lighting. Total three RCBOs, £25 each. Probably another
> £50 for a cheapo CU and a main switch.
>
> I'd imagine around here the work would be sub £1000 depending on the cable
> runs and other fiddliness - although I'm not familiar with London prices.
>
> If they get a sparky in, they can do the work and coordinate with the DNO to
> reconnect once everything is safe.
>
> Theo
Theo
May 13, 2022, 11:25:14 AM5/13/22
to
Robin <r...@outlook.com> wrote:
> On 13/05/2022 15:20, Theo wrote:
> > If the supply is good and the ring would pass tests, a basic CU with a
> > single MCB+RCD or RCBO way wouldn't seem complicated. The earthing would need
> > sorting out, but perhaps there's an earth off the incomer? If there is only
> > an earth rod, perhaps the DNO could convert it to PME when they come to
> > refit the cutout?
>
> Very possibly (and last time I checked still for free in London at
> least) *but* won't be done unless and until main bonding is up to
> current requirements.
If UKPN has a massively out of date install (which if it was pre-WWII this
> On 13/05/2022 15:20, Theo wrote:
> > If the supply is good and the ring would pass tests, a basic CU with a
> > single MCB+RCD or RCBO way wouldn't seem complicated. The earthing would need
> > sorting out, but perhaps there's an earth off the incomer? If there is only
> > an earth rod, perhaps the DNO could convert it to PME when they come to
> > refit the cutout?
>
> Very possibly (and last time I checked still for free in London at
> least) *but* won't be done unless and until main bonding is up to
> current requirements.
might have been) I think they are quite keen to bring it up to modern
standards when they're on site anyway, and won't worry about charging for
that. They came to upgrade my main fuse and ended up changing the entire
1960s service head, for example.
However the current setup is electrically unsafe so sounds like they won't
re-energise it until further work takes place. Any new CU install is going
to have to bring the bonding up to scratch too. Once installed, the DNO can
re-energise.
Theo
Colin Bignell
May 13, 2022, 11:43:59 AM5/13/22
to
On 13/05/2022 14:52, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> Just a general answer based on my memory. Several years ago I installed
> for her an extra 13 amp socket and a phone outlet for a DECT phone.
>
> I don't think the cable, riser, meter or fuse boxes were under water. They
> are all close to the cellar ceiling, and the water didn't get that high.
> if it had, it would have been impossible to get to the internal stopcock.
>
> As I remember it, the ring was likely 50s or 60s. Those rather nasty
> surface mount MK sockets. But PVC wiring. Earthed only to the incoming
> water main. A 30 amp fuse switch via a Henlec block. And another for the
> cooker.
>
> I'd say they would pass tests (except for the earth)
>
> What I was hoping for would be a way to re-connect them and not the
> lighting. ...
> Just a general answer based on my memory. Several years ago I installed
> for her an extra 13 amp socket and a phone outlet for a DECT phone.
>
> I don't think the cable, riser, meter or fuse boxes were under water. They
> are all close to the cellar ceiling, and the water didn't get that high.
> if it had, it would have been impossible to get to the internal stopcock.
>
> As I remember it, the ring was likely 50s or 60s. Those rather nasty
> surface mount MK sockets. But PVC wiring. Earthed only to the incoming
> water main. A 30 amp fuse switch via a Henlec block. And another for the
> cooker.
>
> I'd say they would pass tests (except for the earth)
>
> What I was hoping for would be a way to re-connect them and not the
The supplier will want the entire house up to standard before
reconnecting. Otherwise, there is nothing to stop somebody reconnecting
the lighting once there is power is available in the house.
--
Colin Bignell
Animal
May 13, 2022, 12:17:12 PM5/13/22
to
Doing the minimum would make her house habitable. From there she can take her time getting quotes etc and dealing with insurers, trades etc, and end up all sorted.
Colin Bignell
May 13, 2022, 12:44:28 PM5/13/22
to
have accepted that. It smacks of somebody wanting to get a sub-standard
system installed, once the power is to the house.
--
Colin Bignell
lacksey
May 13, 2022, 1:53:17 PM5/13/22
to
On Fri, 13 May 2022 23:25:22 +1000, Dave Plowman (News)
<da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <d5a2b32d-38c8-c742...@outlook.com>,
> Robin <r...@outlook.com> wrote:
>> On 13/05/2022 11:41, Colin Bignell wrote:
>> >
>> > I would be talking to the local media by now. A human interest story,
>> if
>> > ever there was one.
>> >
>
>> Although the full story may be less interesting - e.g. if the insurance
>> company said straight away they would pay for her to move into a decent
>> hotel until the cellar was pumped and power restored.
>
> Yes they did. She refused.
So would I given that there is still so much covid around
<da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <d5a2b32d-38c8-c742...@outlook.com>,
> Robin <r...@outlook.com> wrote:
>> On 13/05/2022 11:41, Colin Bignell wrote:
>> >
>> > I would be talking to the local media by now. A human interest story,
>> if
>> > ever there was one.
>> >
>
>> Although the full story may be less interesting - e.g. if the insurance
>> company said straight away they would pay for her to move into a decent
>> hotel until the cellar was pumped and power restored.
>
> Yes they did. She refused.
and she doesnt allow visitors into the place. Your extension
cord from your place is the best approach imo.
Peeler
May 13, 2022, 2:04:37 PM5/13/22
to
On Sat, 14 May 2022 03:53:09 +1000, lacksey, better known as cantankerous
"That’s because so much piss and shite emanates from your gob that there is
nothing left to exit normally, your arsehole has clammed shut through disuse
and the end of prick is only clear because you are such a Wanker."
Message-ID: <gm2h57...@mid.individual.net>
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:
<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>
--
Marland addressing senile Rodent's pathological trolling:
<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>
--
"That’s because so much piss and shite emanates from your gob that there is
nothing left to exit normally, your arsehole has clammed shut through disuse
and the end of prick is only clear because you are such a Wanker."
Message-ID: <gm2h57...@mid.individual.net>
Animal
May 13, 2022, 8:35:28 PM5/13/22
to
Secondly a minimal system is safe, legal & habitable.
Colin Bignell
May 14, 2022, 5:46:45 AM5/14/22
to
and these days not a too realistic one.
we didn't have to follow, which would have made it even less likely to
be acceptable.
> Secondly a minimal system is safe, legal & habitable.
make the rest of the house habitable, that is.
About the only people I can think of who could have a minimal
installation approved like that would be a builder working on the
premises, who needs the power (and possibly water) to carry out further
work. If Dave knows an accommodating builder who is willing to apply for
the supply, but not actually do any work, that might be a way to do it.
--
Colin Bignell
Andrew
May 14, 2022, 6:25:24 AM5/14/22
to
On 13/05/2022 11:41, Colin Bignell wrote:
watch that news story on social media and work out where the property
is, so that they can "check it over" for jewelry and other stuff.
Colin Bignell
May 14, 2022, 6:53:58 AM5/14/22
to
On 14/05/2022 11:25, Andrew wrote:
..
lights or burglar alarm.
--
Colin Bignell
..
> I'm sure all the local (and not so local) burglars will be delighted to
> watch that news story on social media and work out where the property
> is, so that they can "check it over" for jewelry and other stuff.
More likely to be travelling around the area, looking for places without
> watch that news story on social media and work out where the property
> is, so that they can "check it over" for jewelry and other stuff.
lights or burglar alarm.
--
Colin Bignell
Dave Plowman (News)
May 14, 2022, 7:32:45 AM5/14/22
to
In article <7cx*sP...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>,
My guess is there was current flow to the only ground - to the water pipe.
And the daughter standing in water made a better path to ground. I've not
been down there to look at things, though. could be the earth connection
is on the wrong side of the stopcock - which was installed later, I've
been told.
> > As I remember it, the ring was likely 50s or 60s. Those rather nasty
> > surface mount MK sockets. But PVC wiring. Earthed only to the incoming
> > water main. A 30 amp fuse switch via a Henlec block. And another for the
> > cooker.
> So no consumer unit at all, those things connected straight off Henley
> blocks from the meter?
No. As I remember the original lighting predated CUs. So separate switch
and fusebox.
> > I'd say they would pass tests (except for the earth)
> >
> > What I was hoping for would be a way to re-connect them and not the
> > lighting. She more or less lives in the kitchen/breakfast room which
> > has a cloakroom attached. At the moment that loo is still flushing
> > from the header tank. But likely not for much longer. She hasn't been
> > able to get upstairs for a couple of years now.
> If the supply is good and the ring would pass tests, a basic CU with a
> single MCB+RCD or RCBO way wouldn't seem complicated. The earthing
> would need sorting out, but perhaps there's an earth off the incomer?
> If there is only an earth rod, perhaps the DNO could convert it to PME
> when they come to refit the cutout?
> If the cooker wiring isn't good, run a new wire in surface trunking.
> Likewise for the lighting. Total three RCBOs, £25 each. Probably
> another £50 for a cheapo CU and a main switch.
> I'd imagine around here the work would be sub £1000 depending on the
> cable runs and other fiddliness - although I'm not familiar with London
> prices.
> If they get a sparky in, they can do the work and coordinate with the
> DNO to reconnect once everything is safe.
Again, as I remember, the cooker circuit was later than the ring.
Although I'm not sure she does any cooking. But does use a microwave to
heat ready meals, etc.
--
*Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity *
Theo <theom...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> "Dave Plowman (News)" <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
> > Just a general answer based on my memory. Several years ago I installed
> > for her an extra 13 amp socket and a phone outlet for a DECT phone.
> >
> > I don't think the cable, riser, meter or fuse boxes were under water.
> > They are all close to the cellar ceiling, and the water didn't get
> > that high. if it had, it would have been impossible to get to the
> > internal stopcock.
> Presumably there was some outlet in the cellar, which is how the water
> became live? And without an RCD it stayed that way?
I doubt there are any sockets in the cellar, Just a light. But not certain.
> "Dave Plowman (News)" <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
> > Just a general answer based on my memory. Several years ago I installed
> > for her an extra 13 amp socket and a phone outlet for a DECT phone.
> >
> > I don't think the cable, riser, meter or fuse boxes were under water.
> > They are all close to the cellar ceiling, and the water didn't get
> > that high. if it had, it would have been impossible to get to the
> > internal stopcock.
> Presumably there was some outlet in the cellar, which is how the water
> became live? And without an RCD it stayed that way?
My guess is there was current flow to the only ground - to the water pipe.
And the daughter standing in water made a better path to ground. I've not
been down there to look at things, though. could be the earth connection
is on the wrong side of the stopcock - which was installed later, I've
been told.
> > As I remember it, the ring was likely 50s or 60s. Those rather nasty
> > surface mount MK sockets. But PVC wiring. Earthed only to the incoming
> > water main. A 30 amp fuse switch via a Henlec block. And another for the
> > cooker.
> So no consumer unit at all, those things connected straight off Henley
> blocks from the meter?
and fusebox.
> > I'd say they would pass tests (except for the earth)
> >
> > What I was hoping for would be a way to re-connect them and not the
> > lighting. She more or less lives in the kitchen/breakfast room which
> > has a cloakroom attached. At the moment that loo is still flushing
> > from the header tank. But likely not for much longer. She hasn't been
> > able to get upstairs for a couple of years now.
> If the supply is good and the ring would pass tests, a basic CU with a
> single MCB+RCD or RCBO way wouldn't seem complicated. The earthing
> would need sorting out, but perhaps there's an earth off the incomer?
> If there is only an earth rod, perhaps the DNO could convert it to PME
> when they come to refit the cutout?
> If the cooker wiring isn't good, run a new wire in surface trunking.
> Likewise for the lighting. Total three RCBOs, £25 each. Probably
> another £50 for a cheapo CU and a main switch.
> I'd imagine around here the work would be sub £1000 depending on the
> cable runs and other fiddliness - although I'm not familiar with London
> prices.
> If they get a sparky in, they can do the work and coordinate with the
> DNO to reconnect once everything is safe.
Although I'm not sure she does any cooking. But does use a microwave to
heat ready meals, etc.
--
*Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity *
Dave Plowman (News)
May 14, 2022, 7:36:37 AM5/14/22
to
In article <Sqadnbij3cbg5-L_...@giganews.com>,
13 amp feed for a while. But not for ever. If it were just her, a
different matter. But from what some of the relations say, protecting
their inheritance seems to be the priority. ;-(
--
*When you get a bladder infection urine trouble.*
Colin Bignell <c...@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote:
> About the only people I can think of who could have a minimal
> installation approved like that would be a builder working on the
> premises, who needs the power (and possibly water) to carry out further
> work. If Dave knows an accommodating builder who is willing to apply for
> the supply, but not actually do any work, that might be a way to do it.
That really was what I was hoping for. I'm happy enough giving her a free
> About the only people I can think of who could have a minimal
> installation approved like that would be a builder working on the
> premises, who needs the power (and possibly water) to carry out further
> work. If Dave knows an accommodating builder who is willing to apply for
> the supply, but not actually do any work, that might be a way to do it.
13 amp feed for a while. But not for ever. If it were just her, a
different matter. But from what some of the relations say, protecting
their inheritance seems to be the priority. ;-(
--
*When you get a bladder infection urine trouble.*
Robin
May 14, 2022, 8:48:26 AM5/14/22
to
On 14/05/2022 12:27, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <7cx*sP...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>,
> Theo <theom...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>> "Dave Plowman (News)" <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Just a general answer based on my memory. Several years ago I installed
>>> for her an extra 13 amp socket and a phone outlet for a DECT phone.
>>>
>>> I don't think the cable, riser, meter or fuse boxes were under water.
>>> They are all close to the cellar ceiling, and the water didn't get
>>> that high. if it had, it would have been impossible to get to the
>>> internal stopcock.
>
>> Presumably there was some outlet in the cellar, which is how the water
>> became live? And without an RCD it stayed that way?
>
> I doubt there are any sockets in the cellar, Just a light. But not certain.
>
> My guess is there was current flow to the only ground - to the water pipe.
> And the daughter standing in water made a better path to ground. I've not
> been down there to look at things, though. could be the earth connection
> is on the wrong side of the stopcock - which was installed later, I've
> been told.
>
I had wondered about that when you said the flood didn't reach the
> In article <7cx*sP...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>,
> Theo <theom...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>> "Dave Plowman (News)" <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Just a general answer based on my memory. Several years ago I installed
>>> for her an extra 13 amp socket and a phone outlet for a DECT phone.
>>>
>>> I don't think the cable, riser, meter or fuse boxes were under water.
>>> They are all close to the cellar ceiling, and the water didn't get
>>> that high. if it had, it would have been impossible to get to the
>>> internal stopcock.
>
>> Presumably there was some outlet in the cellar, which is how the water
>> became live? And without an RCD it stayed that way?
>
> I doubt there are any sockets in the cellar, Just a light. But not certain.
>
> My guess is there was current flow to the only ground - to the water pipe.
> And the daughter standing in water made a better path to ground. I've not
> been down there to look at things, though. could be the earth connection
> is on the wrong side of the stopcock - which was installed later, I've
> been told.
>
cut-out etc. And wondered too if water mains (and communication pipes)
had been replaced.
Theo
May 14, 2022, 9:37:14 AM5/14/22
to
Colin Bignell <c...@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote:
> It is the voice of experience of what strange things people get up to.
>
> and these days not a too realistic one.
>
> I would have thought that there was a duty of due diligence today, which
> we didn't have to follow, which would have made it even less likely to
> be acceptable.
I'm not sure what DNO policy on this is. But I think that suppliers who are
> It is the voice of experience of what strange things people get up to.
>
> and these days not a too realistic one.
>
> I would have thought that there was a duty of due diligence today, which
> we didn't have to follow, which would have made it even less likely to
> be acceptable.
changing meters won't intervene if there is something not up to scratch with
the installation - they will swap out the meter and leave things as equally
bad as they were before, but they won't cut people off when they have come
just to change the meter. That is presumably why this installation is still
going with pre-WWII wiring - the meter must have been changed several times
since then, but the installation was not condemned. Maybe the householder
was told it needed improvement but then ignored it.
That seems to be in contrast to gas installs where the gas distributor may
cut you off if your installation is dangerous. Presumably because a gas
explosion affects more people than just those who live in the house. But
also because it's easier to live without gas than without electricity.
Perhaps Adam has more experience here?
Also bear in mind the person calling the DNO to re-energise is going to be
an electrician not the householder, and the electrician is able to sign off
their own work.
Theo
Dave Plowman (News)
May 14, 2022, 9:56:59 AM5/14/22
to
In article <631f4b23-b162-b593...@outlook.com>,
However, I'm told by the son-in-law he had a stop cock fitted to the
incoming main - and also one close to the (external) header tank which is
mounted on the flat roof to the rear addition. It's possible the mains
earth is now on the house side of the stop cock. Or even just not making a
decent earth connection all these years later.
--
*I'm not your type. I'm not inflatable.
Robin <r...@outlook.com> wrote:
> > My guess is there was current flow to the only ground - to the water
> > pipe. And the daughter standing in water made a better path to ground.
> > I've not been down there to look at things, though. could be the earth
> > connection is on the wrong side of the stopcock - which was installed
> > later, I've been told.
> >
> I had wondered about that when you said the flood didn't reach the
> cut-out etc. And wondered too if water mains (and communication pipes)
> had been replaced.
I simply dunno. The water main from street into my house is still lead.
> > My guess is there was current flow to the only ground - to the water
> > pipe. And the daughter standing in water made a better path to ground.
> > I've not been down there to look at things, though. could be the earth
> > connection is on the wrong side of the stopcock - which was installed
> > later, I've been told.
> >
> I had wondered about that when you said the flood didn't reach the
> cut-out etc. And wondered too if water mains (and communication pipes)
> had been replaced.
However, I'm told by the son-in-law he had a stop cock fitted to the
incoming main - and also one close to the (external) header tank which is
mounted on the flat roof to the rear addition. It's possible the mains
earth is now on the house side of the stop cock. Or even just not making a
decent earth connection all these years later.
--
*I'm not your type. I'm not inflatable.
Dave Plowman (News)
May 14, 2022, 10:07:05 AM5/14/22
to
In article <4cx*HW...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>,
Remember lending her a Lidl rechargeable LED work light I have which runs
for a few hours. The pavement outside her house was dug up for a repair,
and done very quickly. But can't say why they didn't refuse to reinstate
her supply then. Assuming they went into the house.
--
*After the game, the King and the pawn go into the same box.
Theo <theom...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> Colin Bignell <c...@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote:
> > It is the voice of experience of what strange things people get up to.
> >
> > and these days not a too realistic one.
> >
> > I would have thought that there was a duty of due diligence today,
> > which we didn't have to follow, which would have made it even less
> > likely to be acceptable.
> I'm not sure what DNO policy on this is. But I think that suppliers who
> are changing meters won't intervene if there is something not up to
> scratch with the installation - they will swap out the meter and leave
> things as equally bad as they were before, but they won't cut people off
> when they have come just to change the meter. That is presumably why
> this installation is still going with pre-WWII wiring - the meter must
> have been changed several times since then, but the installation was not
> condemned. Maybe the householder was told it needed improvement but
> then ignored it.
I do know she had a power failure in the last couple of years or so.
> Colin Bignell <c...@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote:
> > It is the voice of experience of what strange things people get up to.
> >
> > and these days not a too realistic one.
> >
> > I would have thought that there was a duty of due diligence today,
> > which we didn't have to follow, which would have made it even less
> > likely to be acceptable.
> I'm not sure what DNO policy on this is. But I think that suppliers who
> are changing meters won't intervene if there is something not up to
> scratch with the installation - they will swap out the meter and leave
> things as equally bad as they were before, but they won't cut people off
> when they have come just to change the meter. That is presumably why
> this installation is still going with pre-WWII wiring - the meter must
> have been changed several times since then, but the installation was not
> condemned. Maybe the householder was told it needed improvement but
> then ignored it.
Remember lending her a Lidl rechargeable LED work light I have which runs
for a few hours. The pavement outside her house was dug up for a repair,
and done very quickly. But can't say why they didn't refuse to reinstate
her supply then. Assuming they went into the house.
--
*After the game, the King and the pawn go into the same box.
Colin Bignell
May 14, 2022, 11:42:17 AM5/14/22
to
On 14/05/2022 14:37, Theo wrote:
> Colin Bignell <c...@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote:
>> It is the voice of experience of what strange things people get up to.
>>
>> and these days not a too realistic one.
>>
>> I would have thought that there was a duty of due diligence today, which
>> we didn't have to follow, which would have made it even less likely to
>> be acceptable.
>
> I'm not sure what DNO policy on this is. But I think that suppliers who are
> changing meters won't intervene if there is something not up to scratch with
> the installation - they will swap out the meter and leave things as equally
> bad as they were before, but they won't cut people off when they have come
> just to change the meter. That is presumably why this installation is still
> going with pre-WWII wiring - the meter must have been changed several times
> since then, but the installation was not condemned. Maybe the householder
> was told it needed improvement but then ignored it.
That is not quite the same as reconnecting a supply that has previously
> Colin Bignell <c...@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote:
>> It is the voice of experience of what strange things people get up to.
>>
>> and these days not a too realistic one.
>>
>> I would have thought that there was a duty of due diligence today, which
>> we didn't have to follow, which would have made it even less likely to
>> be acceptable.
>
> I'm not sure what DNO policy on this is. But I think that suppliers who are
> changing meters won't intervene if there is something not up to scratch with
> the installation - they will swap out the meter and leave things as equally
> bad as they were before, but they won't cut people off when they have come
> just to change the meter. That is presumably why this installation is still
> going with pre-WWII wiring - the meter must have been changed several times
> since then, but the installation was not condemned. Maybe the householder
> was told it needed improvement but then ignored it.
been disconnected as being dangerous though.
>
> That seems to be in contrast to gas installs where the gas distributor may
> cut you off if your installation is dangerous. Presumably because a gas
> explosion affects more people than just those who live in the house. But
> also because it's easier to live without gas than without electricity.
>
> Perhaps Adam has more experience here?
>
> Also bear in mind the person calling the DNO to re-energise is going to be
> an electrician not the householder, and the electrician is able to sign off
> their own work.
>
> Theo
Colin Bignell
Andrew
May 14, 2022, 1:57:41 PM5/14/22
to
On 14/05/2022 14:55, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <631f4b23-b162-b593...@outlook.com>,
> Robin <r...@outlook.com> wrote:
>>> My guess is there was current flow to the only ground - to the water
>>> pipe. And the daughter standing in water made a better path to ground.
>>> I've not been down there to look at things, though. could be the earth
>>> connection is on the wrong side of the stopcock - which was installed
>>> later, I've been told.
>>>
>
>> I had wondered about that when you said the flood didn't reach the
>> cut-out etc. And wondered too if water mains (and communication pipes)
>> had been replaced.
>
> I simply dunno. The water main from street into my house is still lead.
>
Good job London has really hard water then :-)
> In article <631f4b23-b162-b593...@outlook.com>,
> Robin <r...@outlook.com> wrote:
>>> My guess is there was current flow to the only ground - to the water
>>> pipe. And the daughter standing in water made a better path to ground.
>>> I've not been down there to look at things, though. could be the earth
>>> connection is on the wrong side of the stopcock - which was installed
>>> later, I've been told.
>>>
>
>> I had wondered about that when you said the flood didn't reach the
>> cut-out etc. And wondered too if water mains (and communication pipes)
>> had been replaced.
>
> I simply dunno. The water main from street into my house is still lead.
>
Andrew
May 14, 2022, 2:00:08 PM5/14/22
to
Andrew
May 14, 2022, 2:05:18 PM5/14/22
to
On 12/05/2022 22:46, Theo wrote:
> ARW <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>> I once did something the same but with trunking.
>>
>> The electricity co will take no time to swap the cutout once the cellar
>> is pumped out.
>
> If it were me I'd be tempted to find a location on the ground floor exterior
> for a meter box, with a CU inside somewhere nearby. Maybe the insurance
> would pay?
>
> But I think you're right that the incomer is probably OK once dried out and
> the DNO will fit a new meter board and cutout. So you don't need a new
> incomer. It's not like flooding is a regular occurrence here, where it
> might be advisable to move it.
>
> I forget the regs, is there any issue with having the meter somewhere
> distant from the cutout, assuming suitably robust cable? For example if the
> householder can't get down the stairs into the cellar any more, could it be
> moved to the ground floor next to a new CU? A smart meter shouldn't need to
> be accessible for meter readers in person, but sometimes suppliers still ask
> for readings (eg when changing supplier).
>
> Either way, a new CU inside plus a few sockets with surface wiring would be
> a lot cheaper than a full rewire. Might have to do something about
> lighting, but maybe a few wall lights?
>
> Theo
Since she cannot get upstairs, all the upstairs wiring might just as
well be removed, and this does not infringe any regulations (AFAIK),
leaving a minimal downstairs upgrade (cooker plus 1 ring)
> ARW <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>> I once did something the same but with trunking.
>>
>> The electricity co will take no time to swap the cutout once the cellar
>> is pumped out.
>
> If it were me I'd be tempted to find a location on the ground floor exterior
> for a meter box, with a CU inside somewhere nearby. Maybe the insurance
> would pay?
>
> But I think you're right that the incomer is probably OK once dried out and
> the DNO will fit a new meter board and cutout. So you don't need a new
> incomer. It's not like flooding is a regular occurrence here, where it
> might be advisable to move it.
>
> I forget the regs, is there any issue with having the meter somewhere
> distant from the cutout, assuming suitably robust cable? For example if the
> householder can't get down the stairs into the cellar any more, could it be
> moved to the ground floor next to a new CU? A smart meter shouldn't need to
> be accessible for meter readers in person, but sometimes suppliers still ask
> for readings (eg when changing supplier).
>
> Either way, a new CU inside plus a few sockets with surface wiring would be
> a lot cheaper than a full rewire. Might have to do something about
> lighting, but maybe a few wall lights?
>
> Theo
Since she cannot get upstairs, all the upstairs wiring might just as
well be removed, and this does not infringe any regulations (AFAIK),
leaving a minimal downstairs upgrade (cooker plus 1 ring)
Andrew
May 14, 2022, 2:07:06 PM5/14/22
to
On 12/05/2022 22:13, Animal wrote:
> On Thursday, 12 May 2022 at 11:11:18 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>> Back story.
>> Next door neighbour is a widow near 90 living on her own. Very stubborn.
>> Was born in her house and wants to die in it. Totally housebound and won't
>> have any visitors since Covid. So haven't even spoken to her for a couple
>> of years. Sad, as we got on well enough. She has family who call in every
>> day, though.
>>
>> Last week a pipe in the cellar split and flooded it - and next door's
>> cellar too. Daughter waded into the cellar to turn off the water and got a
>> bad electric shock. Ended up in A&E - but on the mend now.
>>
>> Service suppliers cut off both the water and electricity. Insurance are
>> meant to be pumping out the water, but nothing done as yet.
>>
>> Son in law has been keeping me updated. When he said the power was off, I
>> ran a cable reel to their kitchen from my house (fed from an MCBO
>> protected ring) So at least she can watch TV - the only thing she does
>> now. And a table light and the microwave. So she can have hot drinks and
>> meals. Using bottled water, etc. Her cooker is electric, but does have a
>> gas fire in the kitchen which works.
>>
>> She refuses to go in a home of any sort. Her kids simply don't have room
>> for her - and she is adamant she doesn't want to live with either of them
>> anyway (I'm told) One of the daughters has lost patience and hardly ever
>> calls.
>>
>> The pipe should be easy enough to fix once the cellar is dry enough.
>>
>> The electrics I know to be a total loss - all the lighting is pre-WW2, but
>> a ring was added by her husband in the 60s. And she isn't willing to pay
>> for a re-wire or put up with the disruption it would cause. A quote one of
>> the kids got was 12K.
>>
>> Is it possible to get a temporary supply laid on? If only the ring was
>> connected to it that would be good enough for now.
>>
>> She has agreed to move to a smaller place if one can be found nearby. And
>> sell the house to pay for it. But I reckon something needs to be done
>> sooner to make life bearable until then - ie just the same for her as it
>> has been for the past two years. As moving is likely not going to be done
>> quickly.
>
> 12k is nuts, unless it's a real large house.
It's London, and the house is probably worth £500K+ even in that state.
London Tradesmen quote 'appropriately' :-(
> On Thursday, 12 May 2022 at 11:11:18 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>> Back story.
>> Next door neighbour is a widow near 90 living on her own. Very stubborn.
>> Was born in her house and wants to die in it. Totally housebound and won't
>> have any visitors since Covid. So haven't even spoken to her for a couple
>> of years. Sad, as we got on well enough. She has family who call in every
>> day, though.
>>
>> Last week a pipe in the cellar split and flooded it - and next door's
>> cellar too. Daughter waded into the cellar to turn off the water and got a
>> bad electric shock. Ended up in A&E - but on the mend now.
>>
>> Service suppliers cut off both the water and electricity. Insurance are
>> meant to be pumping out the water, but nothing done as yet.
>>
>> Son in law has been keeping me updated. When he said the power was off, I
>> ran a cable reel to their kitchen from my house (fed from an MCBO
>> protected ring) So at least she can watch TV - the only thing she does
>> now. And a table light and the microwave. So she can have hot drinks and
>> meals. Using bottled water, etc. Her cooker is electric, but does have a
>> gas fire in the kitchen which works.
>>
>> She refuses to go in a home of any sort. Her kids simply don't have room
>> for her - and she is adamant she doesn't want to live with either of them
>> anyway (I'm told) One of the daughters has lost patience and hardly ever
>> calls.
>>
>> The pipe should be easy enough to fix once the cellar is dry enough.
>>
>> The electrics I know to be a total loss - all the lighting is pre-WW2, but
>> a ring was added by her husband in the 60s. And she isn't willing to pay
>> for a re-wire or put up with the disruption it would cause. A quote one of
>> the kids got was 12K.
>>
>> Is it possible to get a temporary supply laid on? If only the ring was
>> connected to it that would be good enough for now.
>>
>> She has agreed to move to a smaller place if one can be found nearby. And
>> sell the house to pay for it. But I reckon something needs to be done
>> sooner to make life bearable until then - ie just the same for her as it
>> has been for the past two years. As moving is likely not going to be done
>> quickly.
>
> 12k is nuts, unless it's a real large house.
It's London, and the house is probably worth £500K+ even in that state.
London Tradesmen quote 'appropriately' :-(
Colin Bignell
May 14, 2022, 7:11:24 PM5/14/22
to
On 14/05/2022 19:00, Andrew wrote:
> On 13/05/2022 17:44, Colin Bignell wrote:
...
> On 13/05/2022 17:44, Colin Bignell wrote:
>> Even decades ago, when I worked for an Electricity Board, we wouldn't
>> have accepted that. It smacks of somebody wanting to get a
>> sub-standard system installed, once the power is to the house.
>>
>
> I thought they insisted that the installation complied with BS7671 ?
>
IEE Regs 14th Edition in my day, but they were not legally enforceable,
>> have accepted that. It smacks of somebody wanting to get a
>> sub-standard system installed, once the power is to the house.
>>
>
> I thought they insisted that the installation complied with BS7671 ?
>
so engineers had to make judgements, based upon experience.
--
Colin Bignell
Animal
May 15, 2022, 6:06:59 PM5/15/22
to
Animal
May 15, 2022, 6:08:05 PM5/15/22
to
Colin Bignell
May 15, 2022, 6:30:00 PM5/15/22
to
would be the Engineering Department. From the company fuses onwards was
the Commercial Department. Different skill sets and different
responsibilities.
--
Colin Bignell
Rod Speed
May 15, 2022, 9:12:32 PM5/15/22
to
Peeler
May 16, 2022, 4:25:37 AM5/16/22
to
On Mon, 16 May 2022 11:12:25 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:
<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>
--
dennis@home to senile know-it-all Rodent Speed:
"You really should stop commenting on things you know nothing about."
Message-ID: <pCVTC.283711$%L2.2...@fx40.am4>
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:
<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>
--
"You really should stop commenting on things you know nothing about."
Message-ID: <pCVTC.283711$%L2.2...@fx40.am4>
Colin Bignell
May 16, 2022, 6:56:45 AM5/16/22
to
like the cautionary pictures of furred up arteries.
--
Colin Bignell
Dave Plowman (News)
May 16, 2022, 10:20:09 AM5/16/22
to
Latest part of the saga.
Plumber (Pimlico) refuses to repair the pipe due to unsafe working
conditions - flooded cellar. And won't pump it out due to the stuff stored
there - says it has to be cleared first. Next door got theirs pumped out
with no problems - despite obviously having things stored there too.
Due to no water to flush the toilet, they've got her a commode. And have
lifted the manhole cover to the drains (in the back garden) and are
emptying it into that. And have put a wire cover over the hole for
'safety'. I've not had any smells yet - but give it time. Although that
manhole is very close to the other neighbour, so they might get the
results first.
I'm also thinking me providing an electricity supply might be actually
making things worse in the end.
--
*Be nice to your kids. They'll choose your nursing home.
Plumber (Pimlico) refuses to repair the pipe due to unsafe working
conditions - flooded cellar. And won't pump it out due to the stuff stored
there - says it has to be cleared first. Next door got theirs pumped out
with no problems - despite obviously having things stored there too.
Due to no water to flush the toilet, they've got her a commode. And have
lifted the manhole cover to the drains (in the back garden) and are
emptying it into that. And have put a wire cover over the hole for
'safety'. I've not had any smells yet - but give it time. Although that
manhole is very close to the other neighbour, so they might get the
results first.
I'm also thinking me providing an electricity supply might be actually
making things worse in the end.
--
*Be nice to your kids. They'll choose your nursing home.
Andrew
May 16, 2022, 10:23:57 AM5/16/22
to
On 16/05/2022 15:19, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> Latest part of the saga.
>
> Plumber (Pimlico) refuses to repair the pipe due to unsafe working
> conditions - flooded cellar. And won't pump it out due to the stuff stored
> there - says it has to be cleared first. Next door got theirs pumped out
> with no problems - despite obviously having things stored there too.
>
> Due to no water to flush the toilet, they've got her a commode. And have
> lifted the manhole cover to the drains (in the back garden) and are
> emptying it into that. And have put a wire cover over the hole for
> 'safety'. I've not had any smells yet - but give it time. Although that
> manhole is very close to the other neighbour, so they might get the
> results first.
>
> I'm also thinking me providing an electricity supply might be actually
> making things worse in the end.
>
Pimlico plumbers !!. Good job the insurance co is paying the bill.
> Latest part of the saga.
>
> Plumber (Pimlico) refuses to repair the pipe due to unsafe working
> conditions - flooded cellar. And won't pump it out due to the stuff stored
> there - says it has to be cleared first. Next door got theirs pumped out
> with no problems - despite obviously having things stored there too.
>
> Due to no water to flush the toilet, they've got her a commode. And have
> lifted the manhole cover to the drains (in the back garden) and are
> emptying it into that. And have put a wire cover over the hole for
> 'safety'. I've not had any smells yet - but give it time. Although that
> manhole is very close to the other neighbour, so they might get the
> results first.
>
> I'm also thinking me providing an electricity supply might be actually
> making things worse in the end.
>
Dave Plowman (News)
May 16, 2022, 10:37:15 AM5/16/22
to
In article <U4KdnT0mnd54sB__...@giganews.com>,
you say, cutting it showed a nice coating of 'lime' inside the pipe.
Making the lead safe. Since my pressure and flow are OK I've left it as
lead up to the stopcock in the cellar. Had fun wiping copper to lead first
time I'd tried this - to fit a new stopcock. All copper after it now.
The odd thing about lead is my brother lives in a soft water area - NE of
Scotland. And his ancient house has a lead feeder too. But has had the
water checked, and OK. Perhaps that soft water has something else in it
which causes a coating?
--
*And don't start a sentence with a conjunction *
Colin Bignell <c...@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote:
> I remember cutting out a section of lead water pipe in London. It looked
> like the cautionary pictures of furred up arteries.
Most of the plumbing in this house was lead too when I bought it. And as
> I remember cutting out a section of lead water pipe in London. It looked
> like the cautionary pictures of furred up arteries.
you say, cutting it showed a nice coating of 'lime' inside the pipe.
Making the lead safe. Since my pressure and flow are OK I've left it as
lead up to the stopcock in the cellar. Had fun wiping copper to lead first
time I'd tried this - to fit a new stopcock. All copper after it now.
The odd thing about lead is my brother lives in a soft water area - NE of
Scotland. And his ancient house has a lead feeder too. But has had the
water checked, and OK. Perhaps that soft water has something else in it
which causes a coating?
--
*And don't start a sentence with a conjunction *
Colin Bignell
May 16, 2022, 11:22:54 AM5/16/22
to
On 16/05/2022 15:19, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> Latest part of the saga.
>
> Plumber (Pimlico) refuses to repair the pipe due to unsafe working
> conditions - flooded cellar. And won't pump it out due to the stuff stored
> there - says it has to be cleared first. Next door got theirs pumped out
> with no problems - despite obviously having things stored there too...
>
> Plumber (Pimlico) refuses to repair the pipe due to unsafe working
> conditions - flooded cellar. And won't pump it out due to the stuff stored
> there - says it has to be cleared first. Next door got theirs pumped out
Perhaps London Fire Brigade might help for a bit of positive publicity.
Otherwise, do you know anybody with a boat who would lend you a
submersible sump pump? It wouldn't be as quick as Fire Engine pump, but
it would empty it eventually.
--
Colin Bignell
Rod Speed
May 16, 2022, 11:48:55 AM5/16/22
to
Colin Bignell <c...@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote
But might kill it working it that hard.
You can hire decent pumps.
You can hire decent pumps.
Rod Speed
May 16, 2022, 12:01:06 PM5/16/22
to
Theo
May 16, 2022, 12:22:47 PM5/16/22
to
eg
https://www.hss.com/hire/c/pumping-and-drying/pumping-and-pumps
Although if this is all 'remote' (ie relatives can't be on site to take
charge) and the trades are turning up, sucking teeth and leaving there's a
limit to what can be done by phoning people up.
Theo
Peeler
May 16, 2022, 12:29:27 PM5/16/22
to
On Tue, 17 May 2022 01:48:48 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
"Rod, you have a sick twisted mind. I suggest you stop your mindless
and totally irresponsible talk. Your mouth could get you into a lot of
trouble."
MID: <gfbb94...@mid.individual.net>
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:
<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>
--
Bod addressing senile Rodent Speed:
<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>
--
"Rod, you have a sick twisted mind. I suggest you stop your mindless
and totally irresponsible talk. Your mouth could get you into a lot of
trouble."
MID: <gfbb94...@mid.individual.net>
Peeler
May 16, 2022, 12:30:07 PM5/16/22
to
"Rod Speed is an entirely modern phenomenon. Essentially, Rod Speed
is an insecure and worthless individual who has discovered he can
enhance his own self-esteem in his own eyes by playing "the big, hard
man" on the InterNet."
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/rod-speed-faq.2973853/
--
Bod addressing abnormal senile quarreller Rodent Speed:
"Do you practice arguing with yourself in an empty room?"
MID: <g4ihla...@mid.individual.net>
is an insecure and worthless individual who has discovered he can
enhance his own self-esteem in his own eyes by playing "the big, hard
man" on the InterNet."
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/rod-speed-faq.2973853/
--
Bod addressing abnormal senile quarreller Rodent Speed:
"Do you practice arguing with yourself in an empty room?"
MID: <g4ihla...@mid.individual.net>
ARW
May 16, 2022, 12:55:14 PM5/16/22
to
On 14/05/2022 14:55, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
It's possible the mains
> earth is now on the house side of the stop cock
Which is the correct side.
> earth is now on the house side of the stop cock
ARW
May 16, 2022, 1:19:25 PM5/16/22
to
On 14/05/2022 14:37, Theo wrote:
When we did a lot of shit hole rentals (and some were cannabis farms
that had had the power cut) off a simple RCD garage CU with a double
socket next to it and correctly bonded gas and water was all that was
needed to get the supply back on.
Never once was I asked for a certificate before reconnection - and that
would have only been a partial cert as there was no power on.
Occasionally they have asked me to do an earth loop reading - probably
just checking I had a calibrated meter.
ARW
May 16, 2022, 1:37:10 PM5/16/22
to
Have a trip down memory lane.
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:14th.jpg
Bought it at a bookshop in Rochester after TMH's funeral.
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:14th.jpg
I would have spent longer in there but there was a pub nearby.
Cheers
Adam
Dave Plowman (News)
May 16, 2022, 1:37:28 PM5/16/22
to
In article <t5tvle$j4j$1...@dont-email.me>,
Indeed with modern practice. But not when that house was wired, and the
water main provided the earth.
--
*The fact that no one understands you doesn't mean you're an artist
water main provided the earth.
--
*The fact that no one understands you doesn't mean you're an artist
ARW
May 16, 2022, 1:39:04 PM5/16/22
to
Dave Plowman (News)
May 16, 2022, 1:50:41 PM5/16/22
to
In article <t5u12p$ve7$1...@dont-email.me>,
But I'd also need to contact the supply people about providing a decent
earth?
Don't think we can have TNC here.
I got the supply company to provide it ages ago here - think it is TNS. A
big clamp to the outside of the incoming cable. ISTR it wasn't cheap to
have done.
All just temporary, though. My meter and CU is now at the top of the
cellar stairs, rather than in the cellar. The supply company used
three-core armoured cable to extend from the riser to the meter - the
riser fuse still being in the cellar.
--
*The longest recorded flightof a chicken is thirteen seconds *
ARW <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> > Also bear in mind the person calling the DNO to re-energise is going to be
> > an electrician not the householder, and the electrician is able to sign off
> > their own work.
> It's not often I have come across this sort of thing.
> When we did a lot of shit hole rentals (and some were cannabis farms
> that had had the power cut) off a simple RCD garage CU with a double
> socket next to it and correctly bonded gas and water was all that was
> needed to get the supply back on.
> Never once was I asked for a certificate before reconnection - and that
> would have only been a partial cert as there was no power on.
> Occasionally they have asked me to do an earth loop reading - probably
> just checking I had a calibrated meter.
That was what I was hoping for. Can you give a rough idea of price, Adam?
> > Also bear in mind the person calling the DNO to re-energise is going to be
> > an electrician not the householder, and the electrician is able to sign off
> > their own work.
> It's not often I have come across this sort of thing.
> When we did a lot of shit hole rentals (and some were cannabis farms
> that had had the power cut) off a simple RCD garage CU with a double
> socket next to it and correctly bonded gas and water was all that was
> needed to get the supply back on.
> Never once was I asked for a certificate before reconnection - and that
> would have only been a partial cert as there was no power on.
> Occasionally they have asked me to do an earth loop reading - probably
> just checking I had a calibrated meter.
But I'd also need to contact the supply people about providing a decent
earth?
Don't think we can have TNC here.
I got the supply company to provide it ages ago here - think it is TNS. A
big clamp to the outside of the incoming cable. ISTR it wasn't cheap to
have done.
All just temporary, though. My meter and CU is now at the top of the
cellar stairs, rather than in the cellar. The supply company used
three-core armoured cable to extend from the riser to the meter - the
riser fuse still being in the cellar.
--
*The longest recorded flightof a chicken is thirteen seconds *
ARW
May 16, 2022, 2:38:55 PM5/16/22
to
On 16/05/2022 18:47, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <t5u12p$ve7$1...@dont-email.me>,
> ARW <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Also bear in mind the person calling the DNO to re-energise is going to be
>>> an electrician not the householder, and the electrician is able to sign off
>>> their own work.
>
>
>> It's not often I have come across this sort of thing.
>
>> When we did a lot of shit hole rentals (and some were cannabis farms
>> that had had the power cut) off a simple RCD garage CU with a double
>> socket next to it and correctly bonded gas and water was all that was
>> needed to get the supply back on.
>
>> Never once was I asked for a certificate before reconnection - and that
>> would have only been a partial cert as there was no power on.
>
>> Occasionally they have asked me to do an earth loop reading - probably
>> just checking I had a calibrated meter.
>
> That was what I was hoping for. Can you give a rough idea of price, Adam?
> But I'd also need to contact the supply people about providing a decent
> earth?
>
> Don't think we can have TNC here.
>
> I got the supply company to provide it ages ago here - think it is TNS. A
> big clamp to the outside of the incoming cable. ISTR it wasn't cheap to
> have done.
They know how to charge an earth for an earth clamp fitting, or move a
> In article <t5u12p$ve7$1...@dont-email.me>,
> ARW <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Also bear in mind the person calling the DNO to re-energise is going to be
>>> an electrician not the householder, and the electrician is able to sign off
>>> their own work.
>
>
>> It's not often I have come across this sort of thing.
>
>> When we did a lot of shit hole rentals (and some were cannabis farms
>> that had had the power cut) off a simple RCD garage CU with a double
>> socket next to it and correctly bonded gas and water was all that was
>> needed to get the supply back on.
>
>> Never once was I asked for a certificate before reconnection - and that
>> would have only been a partial cert as there was no power on.
>
>> Occasionally they have asked me to do an earth loop reading - probably
>> just checking I had a calibrated meter.
>
> That was what I was hoping for. Can you give a rough idea of price, Adam?
> But I'd also need to contact the supply people about providing a decent
> earth?
>
> Don't think we can have TNC here.
>
> I got the supply company to provide it ages ago here - think it is TNS. A
> big clamp to the outside of the incoming cable. ISTR it wasn't cheap to
> have done.
cut out etc.
> All just temporary, though. My meter and CU is now at the top of the
> cellar stairs, rather than in the cellar. The supply company used
> three-core armoured cable to extend from the riser to the meter - the
> riser fuse still being in the cellar.
>
If the supplier is not going to provide you with an earth you have to
supply your installation with your own earth rod and RCD all the
circuits for additional protection.
Odd that your neighbour has not died of electrocution after all these
years. Or fallen down the stairs in a power cut when the lights failed:-)
The old battle axe missed the bombs in the blitz as well.
Today's apprentice wanted taking to A&E because he got a splinter in his
finger. I could have removed that with the angle grinder.
All the best Dave
Colin Bignell
May 16, 2022, 3:08:55 PM5/16/22
to
On 16/05/2022 18:37, ARW wrote:
> On 15/05/2022 00:11, Colin Bignell wrote:
>> On 14/05/2022 19:00, Andrew wrote:
>>> On 13/05/2022 17:44, Colin Bignell wrote:
>> ...
>>>> Even decades ago, when I worked for an Electricity Board, we
>>>> wouldn't have accepted that. It smacks of somebody wanting to get a
>>>> sub-standard system installed, once the power is to the house.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I thought they insisted that the installation complied with BS7671 ?
>>>
>>
>> IEE Regs 14th Edition in my day, but they were not legally
>> enforceable, so engineers had to make judgements, based upon experience.
>>
>
> Which amendment:-) Metric or imperial?
Imperial of course, and we used real money in those days too, not this
> On 15/05/2022 00:11, Colin Bignell wrote:
>> On 14/05/2022 19:00, Andrew wrote:
>>> On 13/05/2022 17:44, Colin Bignell wrote:
>> ...
>>>> Even decades ago, when I worked for an Electricity Board, we
>>>> wouldn't have accepted that. It smacks of somebody wanting to get a
>>>> sub-standard system installed, once the power is to the house.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I thought they insisted that the installation complied with BS7671 ?
>>>
>>
>> IEE Regs 14th Edition in my day, but they were not legally
>> enforceable, so engineers had to make judgements, based upon experience.
>>
>
> Which amendment:-) Metric or imperial?
decimal stuff.
>
> Have a trip down memory lane.
>
> http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:14th.jpg
>
> Bought it at a bookshop in Rochester after TMH's funeral.
>
> http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:14th.jpg
>
> I would have spent longer in there but there was a pub nearby.
>
> Cheers
>
> Adam
>
Colin Bignell
Colin Bignell
May 16, 2022, 6:39:48 PM5/16/22
to
--
Colin Bignell
Rod Speed
May 16, 2022, 7:08:07 PM5/16/22
to
Colin Bignell
May 16, 2022, 7:18:32 PM5/16/22
to
--
Colin Bignell
Colin Bignell
May 16, 2022, 7:21:55 PM5/16/22
to
On 16/05/2022 15:30, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <U4KdnT0mnd54sB__...@giganews.com>,
> Colin Bignell <c...@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote:
>> I remember cutting out a section of lead water pipe in London. It looked
>> like the cautionary pictures of furred up arteries.
>
> Most of the plumbing in this house was lead too when I bought it. And as
> you say, cutting it showed a nice coating of 'lime' inside the pipe.
> Making the lead safe. Since my pressure and flow are OK I've left it as
> lead up to the stopcock in the cellar. Had fun wiping copper to lead first
> time I'd tried this - to fit a new stopcock. All copper after it now.
>
> The odd thing about lead is my brother lives in a soft water area - NE of
> Scotland. And his ancient house has a lead feeder too. But has had the
> water checked, and OK. Perhaps that soft water has something else in it
> which causes a coating?
>
AIUI, the water companies in soft water areas add an inhibitor.
> In article <U4KdnT0mnd54sB__...@giganews.com>,
> Colin Bignell <c...@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote:
>> I remember cutting out a section of lead water pipe in London. It looked
>> like the cautionary pictures of furred up arteries.
>
> Most of the plumbing in this house was lead too when I bought it. And as
> you say, cutting it showed a nice coating of 'lime' inside the pipe.
> Making the lead safe. Since my pressure and flow are OK I've left it as
> lead up to the stopcock in the cellar. Had fun wiping copper to lead first
> time I'd tried this - to fit a new stopcock. All copper after it now.
>
> The odd thing about lead is my brother lives in a soft water area - NE of
> Scotland. And his ancient house has a lead feeder too. But has had the
> water checked, and OK. Perhaps that soft water has something else in it
> which causes a coating?
>
--
Colin Bignell
Rod Speed
May 16, 2022, 8:07:59 PM5/16/22
to
On Tue, 17 May 2022 09:18:23 +1000, Colin Bignell
Then they need to pay a plubnrt eho9 eill pump yhr vrllst.
Paul
May 16, 2022, 8:09:51 PM5/16/22
to
But decent hose is the other. I was kinda shocked at how nice
the rental hose was. For a decent hose, you could pay 7x for
the hose needed (150 feet), compared to the cost of the cheesy pump.
When I got the rental pump and hose, the hose was suction
compatible (won't collapse under suction). And that hose
design allows the pump to run at closer to its rating.
The one thing I didn't get with the pump, was any extra fittings.
To pump water out of a yard, I needed a 90 degree angle fitting,
with (some sort of) standard fitting on the end. I went to the
Pump House (commercial) and they gave me one for free (as they
had a stock of junk). With the ninety degree, that prevented
the hose from getting kinked. If pumping a basement, with a
hose that rigid, a 90 degree fitting might still be needed.
For home usage, I have inadequate hose ("lay flat" non-suction
hose), which requires extra pumping time. Turning a two hour job
into a day long job.
Pumps with impellers, have to sit closer to what you want to pump.
Partially submersed (or for a good pump, totally submersed
and by a significant number of feet). For $500, you can get
a cast iron pump, just toss it into the water and ignore
it, it's that robust. But many other home pumps, you need to
be more careful with them, to not ruin them on the first go.
Suction pumps with a piston, if I bought and paid for one of those,
I'd be careful about what kind of water I'd feed it, to protect the piston.
A piston pump could sit at grade, and a suction line run down into the
water.
Pumps have a max inlet operating temp, and a pH range, but this
isn't usually an issue for a basement thing. The little pumps
rely on the flow of water around the pump jacket for cooling.
If the pump burns 500W, and the motor is decently efficient,
there's still a good amount of waste heat. Pumping cool water
is what it wants to do.
The motor on some pumps are oil cooled. Oil held in the motor
winding area, acts as a thermal bridge to the internal jacket,
so the passing water can carry away the heat. The very first
pump I bought, the pump had been stored on its side in the
hardware store, and all the oil had run out. (This risks
destroying the motor on your very first usage, as the motor
will overheat without the internal oil fill.) The Pump House
had a bottle of oil suited for the job, and I refilled the
pump jacket before usage. If the cardboard box a pump comes
in, is soaked in oil, you've got a problem.
For home hoses, you clean them after using them, so they
won't stink on storage. One of the reasons I don't use the
2" line very often, is the cleaning and rolling procedure
is a back-breaker. If you had an assistant, it would be not
nearly as bad.
There are *many* advantages to renting :-) For a once in a lifetime
burst pipe, you don't need to own the stuff. What *owning* the
items does for you, is in times of overland flooding, you
might have something you can use, when the rental is "all out".
Paul
Peeler
May 17, 2022, 4:14:31 AM5/17/22
to
On Tue, 17 May 2022 09:07:59 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Peeler
May 17, 2022, 4:15:34 AM5/17/22
to
On Tue, 17 May 2022 10:07:50 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
John addressing the senile Australian pest:
"You are a complete idiot. But you make me larf. LOL"
MID: <f9056fe6-1479-40ff...@googlegroups.com>
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:
<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>
--
<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>
John addressing the senile Australian pest:
"You are a complete idiot. But you make me larf. LOL"
MID: <f9056fe6-1479-40ff...@googlegroups.com>
John Walliker
May 17, 2022, 5:02:23 AM5/17/22
to
when the job is done. Something like this should be enough and would
cost less to buy than the rental of anything.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/151652-Heavy-Submersible-Clean-Dirty/dp/B01LWY1VO8
There are lots of cheap alternatives, some of which have higher power.
However, speed doesn't really matter if it can be left running all day.
John
lacksey
May 17, 2022, 5:10:08 AM5/17/22
to
On Tue, 17 May 2022 19:02:21 +1000, John Walliker <jrwal...@gmail.com>
wrote:
wrote:
> Submersible pumps are so cheap that it could just be thrown away
> when the job is done. Something like this should be enough and would
> cost less to buy than the rental of anything.
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/151652-Heavy-Submersible-Clean-Dirty/dp/B01LWY1VO8
> There are lots of cheap alternatives, some of which have higher power.
> However, speed doesn't really matter if it can be left running all day.
But they all die if left running with no more water to pump.
> when the job is done. Something like this should be enough and would
> cost less to buy than the rental of anything.
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/151652-Heavy-Submersible-Clean-Dirty/dp/B01LWY1VO8
> There are lots of cheap alternatives, some of which have higher power.
> However, speed doesn't really matter if it can be left running all day.
RJH
May 17, 2022, 5:12:50 AM5/17/22
to
On 17 May 2022 at 10:09:58 BST, "lacksey" <lki...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Submersible pumps are so cheap that it could just be thrown away
>> when the job is done. Something like this should be enough and would
>> cost less to buy than the rental of anything.
>> https://www.amazon.co.uk/151652-Heavy-Submersible-Clean-Dirty/dp/B01LWY1VO8
>> There are lots of cheap alternatives, some of which have higher power.
>> However, speed doesn't really matter if it can be left running all day.
>
> But they all die if left running with no more water to pump.
Eh? The ones I've had have a float that cuts the motor out when the water
>> Submersible pumps are so cheap that it could just be thrown away
>> when the job is done. Something like this should be enough and would
>> cost less to buy than the rental of anything.
>> https://www.amazon.co.uk/151652-Heavy-Submersible-Clean-Dirty/dp/B01LWY1VO8
>> There are lots of cheap alternatives, some of which have higher power.
>> However, speed doesn't really matter if it can be left running all day.
>
> But they all die if left running with no more water to pump.
level drops below a certain level.
--
Cheers, Rob
Peeler
May 17, 2022, 5:26:25 AM5/17/22
to
On Tue, 17 May 2022 19:09:58 +1000, lacksey, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:
<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>
--
Tim+ about trolling Rodent Speed:
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:
<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>
--
He is by far the most persistent troll who seems to be able to get under the
skin of folk who really should know better. Since when did arguing with a
troll ever achieve anything (beyond giving the troll pleasure)?
MID: <1421057667.659518815.743...@news.individual.net>
John Walliker
May 17, 2022, 5:30:00 AM5/17/22
to
all of them do. It will also cope with solids up to 30mm diameter.
John
RJH
May 17, 2022, 6:57:05 AM5/17/22
to
waste. Both failed after a few months, seemingly damaged by whatever washing
powder etc. does.
Replaced them with a Grundfos (rated to deal with a boil wash - the only one I
could find that would) which is an absolute brute. It empties the machine in a
few seconds. Got stuck once a few years back but a boot fixed it, and been
running fine for about 10 years at a wash a week, pumped from a cellar. Cost
about £200 mind.
--
Cheers, Rob
Paul
May 17, 2022, 7:00:11 AM5/17/22
to
Normally, in a flooding situation, most of the
parties want "action right now". And that's the
benefit of rental. And the rental stuff I got, was
better than anything I would ever own myself.
It's because I could start pumping almost immediately,
that I avoided a big mess. Some floor finish lifted
in the basement, from water ingress, but it wasn't enough
water for any fancy "recovery" process. (This was
water in the back yard, threatening to run into the
basement via basement window sill.)
The thing about pumping out a basement, is once
the water level drops, things will start to stink,
and you immediately have to start transporting materials
out of the basement to some other area. If the walls are
finished, the cladding has to come off, or... whatever.
The pumping bit, is just a small part of the adventure.
It's the easy part.
Paul
John Walliker
May 17, 2022, 9:14:35 AM5/17/22
to
entered the cellar).
John
Dave Plowman (News)
May 17, 2022, 9:34:49 AM5/17/22
to
In article <t5u5nr$4lh$1...@dont-email.me>,
wanted chapter and verse on what was going on. She is in her eighties too
- and taking the sun outdoors in the front garden. Got her electric story
- about how they had had three earth rods fitted. Amazing what some old
ladies are interested in.
--
*Succeed, in spite of management *
ARW <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> If the supplier is not going to provide you with an earth you have to
> supply your installation with your own earth rod and RCD all the
> circuits for additional protection.
Oddly, was chatting to another old neighbour who lives across the road and
> If the supplier is not going to provide you with an earth you have to
> supply your installation with your own earth rod and RCD all the
> circuits for additional protection.
wanted chapter and verse on what was going on. She is in her eighties too
- and taking the sun outdoors in the front garden. Got her electric story
- about how they had had three earth rods fitted. Amazing what some old
ladies are interested in.
--
*Succeed, in spite of management *
Dave Plowman (News)
May 17, 2022, 9:34:49 AM5/17/22
to
In article <kKqdnXGMA-FdRh__...@giganews.com>,
Not sure, but think they're only going to pay to have it pumped out, not
repaired.
Given the time they've taken it will likely have dried out all on it's
own. If the original very rough concrete floor. Mine used to let water in
via the coal hole - but it soon dried up.
> --
--
*Oh, what a tangled website we weave when first we practice *
repaired.
Given the time they've taken it will likely have dried out all on it's
own. If the original very rough concrete floor. Mine used to let water in
via the coal hole - but it soon dried up.
> --
--
*Oh, what a tangled website we weave when first we practice *
Andrew
May 17, 2022, 10:08:25 AM5/17/22
to
been disconnected :-)
ARW
May 17, 2022, 1:13:50 PM5/17/22
to
On 16/05/2022 18:35, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <t5tvle$j4j$1...@dont-email.me>,
> ARW <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 14/05/2022 14:55, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>> It's possible the mains
>>> earth is now on the house side of the stop cock
>
>> Which is the correct side.
>
> Indeed with modern practice. But not when that house was wired, and the
> water main provided the earth.
>
And of course main equipotential bonding is not there to stop people in
> In article <t5tvle$j4j$1...@dont-email.me>,
> ARW <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 14/05/2022 14:55, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>> It's possible the mains
>>> earth is now on the house side of the stop cock
>
>> Which is the correct side.
>
> Indeed with modern practice. But not when that house was wired, and the
> water main provided the earth.
>
water getting a shock:-) It's for then you lose the neutral.
ARW
May 17, 2022, 1:30:14 PM5/17/22
to
On 16/05/2022 20:08, Colin Bignell wrote:
> On 16/05/2022 18:37, ARW wrote:
>> On 15/05/2022 00:11, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>> On 14/05/2022 19:00, Andrew wrote:
>>>> On 13/05/2022 17:44, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>> ...
>>>>> Even decades ago, when I worked for an Electricity Board, we
>>>>> wouldn't have accepted that. It smacks of somebody wanting to get a
>>>>> sub-standard system installed, once the power is to the house.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I thought they insisted that the installation complied with BS7671 ?
>>>>
>>>
>>> IEE Regs 14th Edition in my day, but they were not legally
>>> enforceable, so engineers had to make judgements, based upon experience.
>>>
>>
>> Which amendment:-) Metric or imperial?
>
> Imperial of course, and we used real money in those days too, not this
> decimal stuff.
:-)
> On 16/05/2022 18:37, ARW wrote:
>> On 15/05/2022 00:11, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>> On 14/05/2022 19:00, Andrew wrote:
>>>> On 13/05/2022 17:44, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>> ...
>>>>> Even decades ago, when I worked for an Electricity Board, we
>>>>> wouldn't have accepted that. It smacks of somebody wanting to get a
>>>>> sub-standard system installed, once the power is to the house.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I thought they insisted that the installation complied with BS7671 ?
>>>>
>>>
>>> IEE Regs 14th Edition in my day, but they were not legally
>>> enforceable, so engineers had to make judgements, based upon experience.
>>>
>>
>> Which amendment:-) Metric or imperial?
>
> Imperial of course, and we used real money in those days too, not this
> decimal stuff.
I was 6 months old on Decimal Day.
I also bought Bill Wright a 1st edition copy of Aerial Handbook by
G.A.Briggs that was published in 1964 - just in case he needed any help.
Andrew
May 17, 2022, 2:57:05 PM5/17/22
to
showing their book prices.
Aerial Handbook (semi-stiff) 75p (95p post paid)
Ditto (cloth bound) £1.13 (£1.43 post paid).
So you splashed out :-)
Animal
May 17, 2022, 5:28:11 PM5/17/22
to
John J
May 18, 2022, 3:18:14 AM5/18/22
to
On Thursday, 12 May 2022 at 11:11:18 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> Back story.
> Next door neighbour is a widow near 90 living on her own. Very stubborn.
> Was born in her house and wants to die in it. Totally housebound and won't
> have any visitors since Covid. So haven't even spoken to her for a couple
> of years. Sad, as we got on well enough. She has family who call in every
> day, though.
>
> Last week a pipe in the cellar split and flooded it - and next door's
> cellar too. Daughter waded into the cellar to turn off the water and got a
> bad electric shock. Ended up in A&E - but on the mend now.
>
> Service suppliers cut off both the water and electricity. Insurance are
> meant to be pumping out the water, but nothing done as yet.
>
> Son in law has been keeping me updated. When he said the power was off, I
> ran a cable reel to their kitchen from my house (fed from an MCBO
> protected ring) So at least she can watch TV - the only thing she does
> now. And a table light and the microwave. So she can have hot drinks and
> meals. Using bottled water, etc. Her cooker is electric, but does have a
> gas fire in the kitchen which works.
>
> She refuses to go in a home of any sort. Her kids simply don't have room
> for her - and she is adamant she doesn't want to live with either of them
> anyway (I'm told) One of the daughters has lost patience and hardly ever
> calls.
>
> The pipe should be easy enough to fix once the cellar is dry enough.
>
> The electrics I know to be a total loss - all the lighting is pre-WW2, but
> a ring was added by her husband in the 60s. And she isn't willing to pay
> for a re-wire or put up with the disruption it would cause. A quote one of
> the kids got was 12K.
>
> Is it possible to get a temporary supply laid on? If only the ring was
> connected to it that would be good enough for now.
>
> She has agreed to move to a smaller place if one can be found nearby. And
> sell the house to pay for it. But I reckon something needs to be done
> sooner to make life bearable until then - ie just the same for her as it
> has been for the past two years. As moving is likely not going to be done
> quickly.
>
> --
> *Prepositions are not words to end sentences with *
This story has rumbled on and on. Surely it would have been simple to beg, borrow, hire or even buy a cheap submersible pump and a roll of layflat or better hose from ebay and simply pump the cellar out already using an extension lead from next door? Once empty the remaining problems could be addressed in a timely and sensible manner. We are supposed to be a d-i-y group after all.
> Back story.
> Next door neighbour is a widow near 90 living on her own. Very stubborn.
> Was born in her house and wants to die in it. Totally housebound and won't
> have any visitors since Covid. So haven't even spoken to her for a couple
> of years. Sad, as we got on well enough. She has family who call in every
> day, though.
>
> Last week a pipe in the cellar split and flooded it - and next door's
> cellar too. Daughter waded into the cellar to turn off the water and got a
> bad electric shock. Ended up in A&E - but on the mend now.
>
> Service suppliers cut off both the water and electricity. Insurance are
> meant to be pumping out the water, but nothing done as yet.
>
> Son in law has been keeping me updated. When he said the power was off, I
> ran a cable reel to their kitchen from my house (fed from an MCBO
> protected ring) So at least she can watch TV - the only thing she does
> now. And a table light and the microwave. So she can have hot drinks and
> meals. Using bottled water, etc. Her cooker is electric, but does have a
> gas fire in the kitchen which works.
>
> She refuses to go in a home of any sort. Her kids simply don't have room
> for her - and she is adamant she doesn't want to live with either of them
> anyway (I'm told) One of the daughters has lost patience and hardly ever
> calls.
>
> The pipe should be easy enough to fix once the cellar is dry enough.
>
> The electrics I know to be a total loss - all the lighting is pre-WW2, but
> a ring was added by her husband in the 60s. And she isn't willing to pay
> for a re-wire or put up with the disruption it would cause. A quote one of
> the kids got was 12K.
>
> Is it possible to get a temporary supply laid on? If only the ring was
> connected to it that would be good enough for now.
>
> She has agreed to move to a smaller place if one can be found nearby. And
> sell the house to pay for it. But I reckon something needs to be done
> sooner to make life bearable until then - ie just the same for her as it
> has been for the past two years. As moving is likely not going to be done
> quickly.
>
> --
> *Prepositions are not words to end sentences with *
This story has rumbled on and on. Surely it would have been simple to beg, borrow, hire or even buy a cheap submersible pump and a roll of layflat or better hose from ebay and simply pump the cellar out already using an extension lead from next door? Once empty the remaining problems could be addressed in a timely and sensible manner. We are supposed to be a d-i-y group after all.
Colin Bignell
May 18, 2022, 4:20:55 AM5/18/22
to
that. I also remember petrol at 2/6d a gallon, about 2.75p/litre.
--
Colin Bignell
The Natural Philosopher
May 18, 2022, 5:54:18 AM5/18/22
to
On 18/05/2022 09:20, Colin Bignell wrote:
> I have an HMSO 1943 publication on Britain's air defences that cost half
> that. I also remember petrol at 2/6d a gallon, about 2.75p/litre.
I can remember it cheaper than that I think - under 2/-
> I have an HMSO 1943 publication on Britain's air defences that cost half
> that. I also remember petrol at 2/6d a gallon, about 2.75p/litre.
Or was it under 5/- ?
--
“The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to
fill the world with fools.”
Herbert Spencer
Bev
May 18, 2022, 6:40:00 AM5/18/22
to
Temple Press - dunno what the date is but looking at the illustrations
and text I'd guess at 1920's/1930's. References to Cyclecars, running
boards and converting coach houses and stables to garages and workshops.
It cost 1/- net when new.
Its invaluable for its guidance on resolving issues with the digital
clock in my current vehicle.
Andrew
May 18, 2022, 6:53:38 AM5/18/22
to
On 18/05/2022 09:20, Colin Bignell wrote:
> I have an HMSO 1943 publication on Britain's air defences that cost half
> that. I also remember petrol at 2/6d a gallon, about 2.75p/litre.
>
But can you remember how much you earned every week when petrol was
> that. I also remember petrol at 2/6d a gallon, about 2.75p/litre.
>
that price ?.
Also cars also had very poor fuel economy back then too and also had
to have the head removed to 'decoke the valves' regularly as well.
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