toilet cistern condensation - help!!
JA*
form on the outside of it - so much that it's almost as if the cistern is
porous. It's become a real problem with water dripping onto and soaking
into the surrounding floor. All pipe connections are watertight so it's not
that. And the cistern is quite new. Any ideas or suggestions anyone??
Lee Blaver
We have the same problem...a twin walled cistern seems a likely answer,
are such things made?
Lee
--
The Reply to address deliberately bounces,
to reply use lee.blaverai tua yiukyiuntlworld.com
replacing the Thai part with the english character.
deepthought
"JA*" <jah...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b0cefo$n9cda$1...@ID-122050.news.dfncis.de...
My guess is that the room is somewhat cold/unheated?
I say this because one bathroom where I know this is to be the case but does
not suffer from condensation because the bathroom does not allowed to drop
below 10 cent.
Its not so much that water is leaking out but condensation from e.g.
un-extracted shower is
forming on the cld cistern.
More heat + more ventilation is the answer.
Sparky
On the continent they have polystyrene liners fitted inside the cistern to
combat such problems.
Here's one I snapped while on holiday in Portugal last year (yeah, sad
aren't I?).
http://members.lycos.co.uk/ningis/ujm/bogflush.jpg
Don't know the availability in UK though.
Mary Fisher
"Sparky" <nit...@not.net> wrote in message
news:QIjW9.6226$xE1.937609@stones...
> http://members.lycos.co.uk/ningis/ujm/bogflush.jpg
>
That's a VERY small cistern and looks like plastic anyway. Ours is a thick
pottery cistern and much larger. It dates from 1937, it's in its own little
room.
And in winter, especially when I've been cooking, water condenses on the
bottom of the cistern as well as the sides - outsides of course.
Today we bought an extracting cooker hood which I hope will go some way to
resolving the problem. If it doesn't I'll carry on wiping the outside of the
cistern when I see it and the floor when I don't, as I've done for 38 years
... :-)
Mary
Derek
wrote:
>JA* wrote:
>> I seem to have a toilet cistern that is causing a lot of condensation to
>> form on the outside of it - so much that it's almost as if the cistern is
>> porous. It's become a real problem with water dripping onto and soaking
>> into the surrounding floor. All pipe connections are watertight so it's not
>> that. And the cistern is quite new. Any ideas or suggestions anyone??
>>
>>
>>
>
>We have the same problem...a twin walled cistern seems a likely answer,
>are such things made?
>
Stop! think! have you ever seen such a beast? Apparently not since you
have to ask :-) , neither have I, so please think again because these
circumstances are commonplace.
Just a thought but, once the cistern has re-filled with cold water from
the mains it will slowly but surely warm up to room temperature and
condensation would go somewhere else, if the toilet doesn't get flushed
before it's had time that is.
Can I pose the following hypothesis, The toilet is in the same room as
the bath/shower. Several people in the morning over an extended period
use the toilet and use the shower, the air becomes saturated with water
vapour which condenses on the cistern which adds heat to the cistern.
Just as the cistern is warming up another bod comes in, flushes the
cistern and has another shower.
If that's the case, you need to need to get a decent fan installed
(preferably automatic) to get as much water vapour as possible out to
the outside as soon as it's created, and get a source of fresh dry air
into the room from outside.
For me it involved leaving the bathroom window *locked* open 0.5 cm on
the first notch of the fastener. If you can't do that you might need an
air brick or somesuch. If you can, heat the room 24/24 (yes, despite
having the window open a bit) so that the surfaces and materials get
dried out by the air which will end up outside.
If the rest of the building is generating moisture? (cooking?, calor gas
stoves?) Put a good automatic closer on the bathroom door and make sure
it seals.
Then see how you get on.
DG
Sparky
"Mary Fisher" <mary....@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3e29c9b0$0$250$4c56...@master.news.zetnet.net...
Yep, they don't make 300 gallon ThunderFlush cisterns any more, something to
do with water conservation I think. I don't know of many installations where
the cistern has its own room! ;-)
deepthought
"Mary Fisher" <mary....@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3e29c9b0$0$250$4c56...@master.news.zetnet.net...
>
A situation I can emphasise with, deters visitors from malingering in there
{:-).
Why is the cooking steam getting in the toilet? Is toilet straight off
kitchen? doesn't sound very hygienic.
BTW it may be of interest to note that all new builds & refurbs of
toilets/bathrooms must have extractor fans and hand washing facility.
deepthought
>
> "Mary Fisher" <mary....@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:3e29c9b0$0$250$4c56...@master.news.zetnet.net...
> >
> > "Sparky" <nit...@not.net> wrote in message
> > news:QIjW9.6226$xE1.937609@stones...
> > >
> > > "JA*" <jah...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > news:b0cefo$n9cda$1...@ID-122050.news.dfncis.de...
> > > > I seem to have a toilet cistern that is causing a lot of
condensation
> > That's a VERY small cistern and looks like plastic anyway. Ours is a
thick
> > pottery cistern and much larger. It dates from 1937, it's in its own
> little
> > room.
> >
>
> Yep, they don't make 300 gallon ThunderFlush cisterns any more, something
to
> do with water conservation I think. I don't know of many installations
where
> the cistern has its own room! ;-)
No they have to flush with 6 litres nowadays. Which 2 of our 3 bogs often
fail to do properly, resulting in 2nd flush, thus defeating the water saving
regulation.
I wonder what size of offering they actually test these new bogs with.
Mary Fisher
>
> >
>
> Yep, they don't make 300 gallon ThunderFlush cisterns any more, something
to
> do with water conservation I think. I don't know of many installations
where
> the cistern has its own room! ;-)
It does have attachments ...
And, sadly, it isn't a Thunderbox nor even 300 gallon capacity. I reckon
it's less than one gallon but would have to either measure it or ask He Who
Knows (the latter is easier).
But being very aware of and keen on conservation we installed a Hippo.
Doesn't make any difference to the condensation of course ... nor does
keeping the window open. We've tried that but it just makes it uncomfortably
cold to sit and read.
Mary
>
>
>
>
Mary Fisher
"deepthought" <deepthought@NO_spammers-here.cyberdude.com> wrote in message
news:L6kW9.14184$4k6.1294963@wards...
> > >
> > That's a VERY small cistern and looks like plastic anyway. Ours is a
thick
> > pottery cistern and much larger. It dates from 1937, it's in its own
> little
> > room.
> >
> > And in winter, especially when I've been cooking, water condenses on the
> > bottom of the cistern as well as the sides - outsides of course.
> >
> > Today we bought an extracting cooker hood which I hope will go some way
to
> > resolving the problem. If it doesn't I'll carry on wiping the outside of
> the
> > cistern when I see it and the floor when I don't, as I've done for 38
> years
> > ... :-)
> I'm guessing the "little room" has no heating?
No. He wanted to put in a small radiator but I said it wasn't worth it, we
didn't want all the kids to spend a long time in there.
> A situation I can emphasise with, deters visitors from malingering in
there
> {:-).
>
> Why is the cooking steam getting in the toilet?
Because the Man in My Life never thinks to close interior doors, such as the
one from the kitchen into the hall. Moisture-laden air then dissipates round
the house, up the stairs and into the smallest room - as well as ever other.
The smallest room just happens to be the only one with a water filled
pottery heat sink.
> Is toilet straight off
> kitchen? doesn't sound very hygienic.
No but I can't think why it shouldn't be hygienic.
> BTW it may be of interest to note that all new builds & refurbs of
> toilets/bathrooms must have extractor fans
That's not something I've seen in newly built houses - unless the lavatories
don't have an opening window.
>
and hand washing facility
I'm not challenging that but it's not something I've seen either - mind you,
most new houses don't have separate lavatories. If the w.c. is in a bathroom
there's a washbasin in the same room.
Having a separate lavatory is very convenient, it means one can have a bath
in peace.
Or a ..... :-)
Mary
>
Ledswinger
news:3e29c9b0$0$250$4c56...@master.news.zetnet.net...
>
to
> > combat such problems.
> >
> >
> pottery cistern and much larger. It dates from 1937, it's in its own
little
> room.
>
Then you'll have to do some thinking yourself as to how to adapt this
potential solution. Consider "thinking" a form of DIY, if that helps.
Led
Mary Fisher
"Ledswinger" <Ledsw...@blueyonder.co.uniformkilo> wrote in message
news:_AkW9.1026$_R2.8...@news-text.cableinet.net...
Well, I thought about your no doubt wise words long and hard but I still
don't understand ... must be something in my pretty little head which can't
get to grips with such an erudite suggestion ...
Mary
>
> Led
>
>
Will Dean
>
> And, sadly, it isn't a Thunderbox nor even 300 gallon capacity. I
reckon
> it's less than one gallon but would have to either measure it or ask
He Who
> Knows (the latter is easier).
If he says less than a gallon, ignore him. The most modern cisterns
(the ones you have to flush twice because they don't work properly) are
6 litres, which is itself more than a gallon.
> We've tried that but it just makes it uncomfortably
> cold to sit and read.
Are you possibly reading steamy novels?
Will
Will Dean
message news:gakW9.14185$4k6.1295033@wards...
> No they have to flush with 6 litres nowadays. Which 2 of our 3 bogs
often
> fail to do properly, resulting in 2nd flush, thus defeating the water
saving
> regulation.
> I wonder what size of offering they actually test these new bogs with.
You can find the test spec. on the web somewhere. They had to relax it
when they reduced the cistern size limits, something they admit to
without a blush and with no explanation of whether the previous spec.
was excessive or the current inadequate. (The latter is quite clearly
the case.)
I'm told by those in the industry that there is also *no* British
manufacture of the workings of these latest specification cisterns and
so they're all imported. Definitely a European plot.
Will
Andy Hall
>"deepthought" <deepthought@NO_spammers-here.cyberdude.com> writes:
>
>[31 lines snipped]
>
>>I wonder what size of offering they actually test these new bogs with.
>
>Doubtless there is an EU standard turd.
There is an EN standard willy for testing certain products.
Andy Hall
Email by removing the word after the two letter,
top level Nordic country domain.
K.J. Mansley
> No they have to flush with 6 litres nowadays. Which 2 of our 3 bogs
> often fail to do properly, resulting in 2nd flush, thus defeating the
> water saving regulation.
Our 6 litre is excellent, and in fact the 3 litre "half flush" is usually
sufficient. This also deals with the original posters problem, because
only half the water in the cistern is replaced at one time and so it
remains nearer room temperature.
Kieran
Mary Fisher
"Will Dean" <ne...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:b0crhg$dav$1$8302...@news.demon.co.uk...
> >
> > And, sadly, it isn't a Thunderbox nor even 300 gallon capacity. I
> reckon
> > it's less than one gallon but would have to either measure it or ask
> He Who
> > Knows (the latter is easier).
>
> If he says less than a gallon, ignore him.
I often do ...
> The most modern cisterns
> (the ones you have to flush twice because they don't work properly) are
> 6 litres, which is itself more than a gallon.
Yes, I realised that after I'd hit Send. It happens very frequently, I'm a
creature of impulse.
>
> > We've tried that but it just makes it uncomfortably
> > cold to sit and read.
>
> Are you possibly reading steamy novels?
Never read fiction. Currently it's a 1955 issue of the British Beekeers'
Journal. absolutely unsteamy.
Mary
>
> Will
>
>
Mary Fisher
"Huge" <hu...@ukmisc.org.uk> wrote in message
news:b0cpdi$73m$2...@anubis.demon.co.uk...
>
If there wasn't there will be now you've given Them the idea ...
Mary
>
>
Mike Ring
>
> Doubtless there is an EU standard turd.
>
>
I think there's about 300 million of them
Mike R
Mary Fisher
"K.J. Mansley" <kie...@NOSPAM.gtemail.net> wrote in message
news:b0e1li$a5o$1...@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk...
Fair point. But it doesn't work like that when there's a queue of kids
standing outside with their legs crossed ...
Mary
The Natural Philosopher
JA* wrote:
Its condenation. Treat teh problem with more heat, better ventilation,
or filling teh cistern with hot water :)
>
John
touch.
I have a 6 litre with half flush and don't get much of a problem.
--
Regards
John
john.p...@ntlworld.com
"Andy Hall" <an...@hall.gl.stopjunkmail> wrote in message
news:a42l2vco063fo9gab...@4ax.com...
Mary Fisher
"Will Dean" <ne...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:b0crhg$dav$1$8302...@news.demon.co.uk...
> news:3e29d05f$0$251$4c56...@master.news.zetnet.net...
> >
> > And, sadly, it isn't a Thunderbox nor even 300 gallon capacity. I
> reckon
> > it's less than one gallon but would have to either measure it or ask
> He Who
> > Knows (the latter is easier).
>
> If he says less than a gallon, ignore him.
He says two gallons. Litres weren't invented when it was made. Well, I know
they WERE but only in nasty foreign parts and laboratories.
I wonder how he measured it?
I imagined pouring a bucket of water in for my estimation but made the
terrible mistake of determining the bucket's capacity as one gallon when
everyone knows - even me - that it's two. Old age is a terrible thing :-(
That's a good old fashioned BS bucket of course, not an EU one. I'm hanging
on to it.
Mary
Andrew McKay
<mary....@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
>> Doubtless there is an EU standard turd.
>
>If there wasn't there will be now you've given Them the idea ...
Oh great. I can just see Tony Blair pushing this one thru parliament,
then every loo in the land will have to be inspected in order to hang
a sign up "passes the EU turd inspection".
Wouldn't surprise me about the EU.
Andrew
========================================
KazArm http://www.kazmax.com
KazMin http://www.kazmin.com
KazPlan http://www.kazplan.com
KazSports http://www.kazsports.com
========================================
Steve Walker
feed hot water to the cistern - problem solved.
Derek
wrote:
>
>feed hot water to the cistern - problem solved.
>
Yes indeed,
Problem solved = 1
Problems created = many.
Think Mould, Algae, Decay, Rot, Slime, Corruption, and Legionaire's
disease.
DG (Who used to work on RH controlled incubators at 37 Celcius)
Stuart
Had to get this quip in - you do realise that when (hopefully never) the UK
joins the Euro we will no longer be able to "Spend a Penny" - I guess
we'll just have to learn to "Euronate" then...
Stuart.
"Huge" <hu...@ukmisc.org.uk> wrote in message
news:b0cpdi$73m$2...@anubis.demon.co.uk...
> "deepthought" <deepthought@NO_spammers-here.cyberdude.com> writes:
>
> [31 lines snipped]
>
> >I wonder what size of offering they actually test these new bogs with.
>
> Doubtless there is an EU standard turd.
>
>
> --
> "The road to Paradise is through Intercourse."
> The uk.transport FAQ; http://www.huge.org.uk/transport/FAQ.html
> [email me at huge [at] huge [dot] org [dot] uk]
>
>
Mary Fisher
<Stuart> wrote in message
news:3e2b134c$0$247$cc9e...@news.dial.pipex.com...
> Sorry folks,
>
> Had to get this quip in - you do realise that when (hopefully never) the
UK
> joins the Euro we will no longer be able to "Spend a Penny" - I guess
> we'll just have to learn to "Euronate" then...
>
> Stuart.
I'm glad someone did, I've been holding myself back and standing with
crossed legs all this time ain't comfortable ...
Mary
Paul C. Dickie
<mary....@zetnet.co.uk> writes
>But being very aware of and keen on conservation we installed a Hippo.
Is it house-broken and, if so, do you take it for walkies?
--
< Paul >
Mary Fisher
"Paul C. Dickie" <p...@bozzie.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:94N6qhBF...@bozzie.demon.co.uk...
We never let it out. It's a water beast.
Mary
>
> --
> < Paul >
Mary Fisher
Now that really DID make me smile!
Mary
Steve Walker
> On Sun, 19 Jan 2003 14:25:08 -0000, "Steve Walker" <spam...@beeb.net>
> wrote:
>>
>> feed hot water to the cistern - problem solved.
>>
>
> Yes indeed,
> Problem solved = 1
> Problems created = many.
> Think Mould, Algae, Decay, Rot, Slime, Corruption, and Legionaire's
> disease.
Nah - in ordinary domestic use use it's not going to get any *hot* water -
the cistern will be filled by whatever's in the pipes, which will usually be
quite cool (excepting bath-time, when the bathroom will be steamy anyway).
Any residual heat in the water will quickly be absorbed by the cistern
pottery in any event.
Terry
>
> If that's the case, you need to need to get a decent fan installed
> (preferably automatic) to get as much water vapour as possible out to
> the outside as soon as it's created, and get a source of fresh dry air
> into the room from outside.
>
You mean that bathroom exhaust fans are not standard? Quite apart
from the high moisture level where does the (and please excuse
the indelicate question) 'smell' go?
Terry
>
> I seem to have a toilet cistern that is causing a lot of condensation to
> form on the outside of it - so much that it's almost as if the cistern is
> porous. It's become a real problem with water dripping onto and soaking
> into the surrounding floor. All pipe connections are watertight so it's not
> that. And the cistern is quite new. Any ideas or suggestions anyone??
Two suggestions.
1) It is possible to buy a 'kit' comprising Styrofoam insulation
pieces, glue etc. which can be trimmed and fitted to the inside
of an existing tank. IIRC it cost the equivalent of about four
quid.
Had only partial success with that because even with the greatest
care some cold water always seemed to get past the insulating
'liner'. Cheap and easy to do though.
I believe I also read of someone using spray foam as a liner; but
have no idea how or whether it adhered to the inside surface of
the tank?
2) It is possible to buy loo tanks that are factory insulated.
These seem to be pretty satisfactory. There are two in my
daughters house and the additional cost was not noticeable; just
a case of "Oh this one by the way is insulated".
Overall it does sound like very high bathroom moisture content;
it only seems to happen in our bathroom, which is central to the
house and without window, if the lav. water is cold and if the
shower-ree (or should that be the shower-rer(sp?) or bather
forgets to operate the fan switch; which is installed outside the
bathroom door next to the bathroom light switch in the approved
electrical safety manner.
Terry
With 16.66% in the Sceptered Isles? Eh?
Includes you too mates! :-)
Terry
>
> "JA*" <jah...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:b0cefo$n9cda$1...@ID-122050.news.dfncis.de...
> > I seem to have a toilet cistern that is causing a lot of condensation to
> > form on the outside of it - so much that it's almost as if the cistern is
> > porous. It's become a real problem with water dripping onto and soaking
> > into the surrounding floor. All pipe connections are watertight so it's
> not
> > that. And the cistern is quite new. Any ideas or suggestions anyone??
> >
>
> combat such problems.
>
> aren't I?).
>
> http://members.lycos.co.uk/ningis/ujm/bogflush.jpg
>
> Don't know the availability in UK though.
That whole tank, quite apart from the liner, looks like it's made
of plastic?
Sparky
"Terry" <tsan...@nf.sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3E2CBD16...@nf.sympatico.ca...
I don't think it matters whether it is plastic or ceramic, it just posted
the piccy to illustrate that the problem is common, known, and solutions are
available. I have seen (in my cistern investigative capacity - don't know
why but I am fascinated by the different flush mechanisms used throughout
the world!) polystyrene (or 'styrofoam') liners fitted to ceramic cisterns
in the USA with great effect. Obviously if the humidity level gets so high
that condensation forms on ceramic tiles around the bathroom walls then you
are on a no-hoper, and better ventilation is the only practical solution. We
have 3 ceramic cisterns with NO liners and have no problems whatsoever.
Mike Ring
news:3E2CBC8...@nf.sympatico.ca:
> Mike Ring wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > Doubtless there is an EU standard turd.
>> >
>> I think there's about 300 million of them
>>
>> Mike R
>
> With 16.66% in the Sceptered Isles? Eh?
> Includes you too mates! :-)
>
We didn't want to join, when *all* the political parties are for it, you
know it's theworst thing in the world.
(How's your big chum to the south?)
Mike R
Mary Fisher
"Sparky" <nit...@not.net> wrote in message
news:b0j1da$45c$1...@sparta.btinternet.com...
>
>
> We
> have 3 ceramic cisterns with NO liners and have no problems whatsoever.
THREE?
There's posh!
Mary
>
>