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Sticking central heating valve (y-plan)?
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Michael Kilpatrick
Mar 24, 2013, 11:07:08 AM3/24/13
to
Blimey, these things always happen over a cold weekend, don't they?
Are the heads to Honeywell 3-port valves interchangeable? I know they
are removable, mostly, but is a new one the same as one from 1985 (I guess)?
My tenant called to say the heating wasn't working and I've just been
over to try to see if I can work out what's wrong. The hot water seemed
to be on all the time and the central heating only coming on
intermittently. Obviously I need to get this fixed sharp-ish (they have
small children, as we do).
It's just a "y plan" system. House built in 1985, not quite big enough
for multiple heating zones. It's an open vent system with a boiler and
timer-controller in the kitchen, and pump/valve/junction box all in the
airing cupboard with the cylinder.
One question: does the manual override lever on a mid-position valve do
anything? The lever on this valve is permanently loose whether the
heating/water are on/off. On a 2-way valve (as I have at home here) I
know I can energise the valves with the lever.
I'm not entirely sure that I could detect the valve energising or doing
anything when fiddling with the heating controls.
Is it a typical fault for the valve to get stuck and fail to operate the
heating? If the motor fails, the valve sticks in the water only mode, or
the heating only mode?
After kicking the motorised valve and switching the hot water
permanently off at the timer-controller, the heating circuit appeaered
to come on and the water circuit appeared to start cooling down - but
it seemed to take a long time for heat to get to the radiators and by
the time I had to leave again, only the upstairs was getting warm. The
tenant had bled all the radiators and the result was horribly black, so
think I shall have to get someone in to give the whole thing a proper flush.
Michael
Are the heads to Honeywell 3-port valves interchangeable? I know they
are removable, mostly, but is a new one the same as one from 1985 (I guess)?
My tenant called to say the heating wasn't working and I've just been
over to try to see if I can work out what's wrong. The hot water seemed
to be on all the time and the central heating only coming on
intermittently. Obviously I need to get this fixed sharp-ish (they have
small children, as we do).
It's just a "y plan" system. House built in 1985, not quite big enough
for multiple heating zones. It's an open vent system with a boiler and
timer-controller in the kitchen, and pump/valve/junction box all in the
airing cupboard with the cylinder.
One question: does the manual override lever on a mid-position valve do
anything? The lever on this valve is permanently loose whether the
heating/water are on/off. On a 2-way valve (as I have at home here) I
know I can energise the valves with the lever.
I'm not entirely sure that I could detect the valve energising or doing
anything when fiddling with the heating controls.
Is it a typical fault for the valve to get stuck and fail to operate the
heating? If the motor fails, the valve sticks in the water only mode, or
the heating only mode?
After kicking the motorised valve and switching the hot water
permanently off at the timer-controller, the heating circuit appeaered
to come on and the water circuit appeared to start cooling down - but
it seemed to take a long time for heat to get to the radiators and by
the time I had to leave again, only the upstairs was getting warm. The
tenant had bled all the radiators and the result was horribly black, so
think I shall have to get someone in to give the whole thing a proper flush.
Michael
A.Lee
Mar 24, 2013, 11:13:16 AM3/24/13
to
Michael Kilpatrick <ne...@mkilpatrick.cospam.uk> wrote:
> Blimey, these things always happen over a cold weekend, don't they?
>
> Are the heads to Honeywell 3-port valves interchangeable? I know they are
> removable, mostly, but is a new one the same as one from 1985 (I guess)?
If it has a 'nipple/knob' on one end of the top plate, then the actuator
> Blimey, these things always happen over a cold weekend, don't they?
>
> Are the heads to Honeywell 3-port valves interchangeable? I know they are
> removable, mostly, but is a new one the same as one from 1985 (I guess)?
can be taken off without draining down.
If it is a flat top plate, then it'll be a drain down to take it off, so
better to change the whole lot rather than just the actuator.
--
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.
A.Lee
Mar 24, 2013, 11:14:27 AM3/24/13
to
The Medway Handyman
Mar 24, 2013, 11:31:44 AM3/24/13
to
actuator at my local PM. Half the price I found online.
--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
Dave Liquorice
Mar 24, 2013, 11:43:18 AM3/24/13
to
On Sun, 24 Mar 2013 15:07:08 +0000, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
> One question: does the manual override lever on a mid-position valve
> do anything?
"manual overide" is a bit of misnomer it ought to be called a "filling
> One question: does the manual override lever on a mid-position valve
> do anything?
lever" or similar. It's there to crack the valve open so that air doesn't
get trapped when filling. It can be used to have the valve open should
the control system fails but if the valve gets motored it will unlatch.
> I'm not entirely sure that I could detect the valve energising or doing
> anything when fiddling with the heating controls.
> After kicking the motorised valve and switching the hot water
> permanently off at the timer-controller, the heating circuit appeaered
> to come on and the water circuit appeared to start cooling down - but
> it seemed to take a long time for heat to get to the radiators and by
> the time I had to leave again, only the upstairs was getting warm.
That sounds more like a failed pump and you are only getting gravity
> permanently off at the timer-controller, the heating circuit appeaered
> to come on and the water circuit appeared to start cooling down - but
> it seemed to take a long time for heat to get to the radiators and by
> the time I had to leave again, only the upstairs was getting warm.
circulation around the heating.
> The tenant had bled all the radiators and the result was horribly
Has it got inhibitor? Has that bee topped up occasionally over the years.
I wouldn't worry too much about black if it has inhibitor.
--
Cheers
Dave.
charles
Mar 24, 2013, 1:43:21 PM3/24/13
to
In article <0cudnVzbqqYBi9LM...@brightview.co.uk>,
units more than once.
--
From KT24
Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18
Michael Kilpatrick <ne...@mkilpatrick.cospam.uk> wrote:
> Blimey, these things always happen over a cold weekend, don't they?
> Are the heads to Honeywell 3-port valves interchangeable? I know they
> are removable, mostly, but is a new one the same as one from 1985 (I
> guess)?
Highly likely. Mine are 1988 installation and I've had to change the motor
> Blimey, these things always happen over a cold weekend, don't they?
> Are the heads to Honeywell 3-port valves interchangeable? I know they
> are removable, mostly, but is a new one the same as one from 1985 (I
> guess)?
units more than once.
--
From KT24
Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18
Michael Kilpatrick
Mar 24, 2013, 1:51:38 PM3/24/13
to
you mean by the top plate! However, I did take the steel cover off the
actuator unit to look inside breifly (just one screw, and lift the side
outs to extract) and it looked as though the actuator screwed onto the
brass valve body.
Michael
Michael Kilpatrick
Mar 24, 2013, 1:53:17 PM3/24/13
to
On 24/03/2013 15:43, Dave Liquorice wrote:
> On Sun, 24 Mar 2013 15:07:08 +0000, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
>
>
>> After kicking the motorised valve and switching the hot water
>> permanently off at the timer-controller, the heating circuit appeaered
>> to come on and the water circuit appeared to start cooling down - but
>> it seemed to take a long time for heat to get to the radiators and by
>> the time I had to leave again, only the upstairs was getting warm.
>
> That sounds more like a failed pump and you are only getting gravity
> circulation around the heating.
But the pump certainly appears to be pumping. It's rather quiet but it's
> On Sun, 24 Mar 2013 15:07:08 +0000, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
>
>
>> After kicking the motorised valve and switching the hot water
>> permanently off at the timer-controller, the heating circuit appeaered
>> to come on and the water circuit appeared to start cooling down - but
>> it seemed to take a long time for heat to get to the radiators and by
>> the time I had to leave again, only the upstairs was getting warm.
>
> That sounds more like a failed pump and you are only getting gravity
> circulation around the heating.
definitely vibrating and water is circulating. The pump failed three
years ago, if I recall, and so it's a reasonably recent replacement.
Michael
A.Lee
Mar 24, 2013, 2:20:09 PM3/24/13
to
Michael Kilpatrick <ne...@mkilpatrick.cospam.uk> wrote:
> On 24/03/2013 15:13, A.Lee wrote:
> > Michael Kilpatrick <ne...@mkilpatrick.cospam.uk> wrote:
> >
> >> Blimey, these things always happen over a cold weekend, don't they?
> >>
> >> Are the heads to Honeywell 3-port valves interchangeable? I know they are
> >> removable, mostly, but is a new one the same as one from 1985 (I guess)?
> >
> > If it has a 'nipple/knob' on one end of the top plate, then the actuator
> > can be taken off without draining down.
> > If it is a flat top plate, then it'll be a drain down to take it off, so
> > better to change the whole lot rather than just the actuator.
>
> Thanks very much. I appreciate the answer but I'm not sure I know what
> you mean by the top plate!
Look at the picture here:
> On 24/03/2013 15:13, A.Lee wrote:
> > Michael Kilpatrick <ne...@mkilpatrick.cospam.uk> wrote:
> >
> >> Blimey, these things always happen over a cold weekend, don't they?
> >>
> >> Are the heads to Honeywell 3-port valves interchangeable? I know they are
> >> removable, mostly, but is a new one the same as one from 1985 (I guess)?
> >
> > If it has a 'nipple/knob' on one end of the top plate, then the actuator
> > can be taken off without draining down.
> > If it is a flat top plate, then it'll be a drain down to take it off, so
> > better to change the whole lot rather than just the actuator.
>
> Thanks very much. I appreciate the answer but I'm not sure I know what
> you mean by the top plate!
<http://www.screwfix.com/p/honeywell-v4043h-2-port-motorised-valve/31480
>
The U shaped cover has a small nipple in the middle of the top of the
plate. That is the indication that the actuator can be replaced without
draining the sytem.
If your top cover is flat, then you'll need to drain down, as once you
undo the screws holding the actuator to the valve, the water will come
out.
I've no idea when the design changed, but check before you undo any
screws that go into the valve body.
Michael Kilpatrick
Mar 24, 2013, 3:34:40 PM3/24/13
to
On 24/03/2013 18:20, A.Lee wrote:
> Michael Kilpatrick <ne...@mkilpatrick.cospam.uk> wrote:
>
>> Thanks very much. I appreciate the answer but I'm not sure I know what
>> you mean by the top plate!
>
> Look at the picture here:
> <http://www.screwfix.com/p/honeywell-v4043h-2-port-motorised-valve/31480
>>
>
> The U shaped cover has a small nipple in the middle of the top of the
> plate. That is the indication that the actuator can be replaced without
> draining the sytem.
Ah, I think I see what you mean.
> Michael Kilpatrick <ne...@mkilpatrick.cospam.uk> wrote:
>
>> Thanks very much. I appreciate the answer but I'm not sure I know what
>> you mean by the top plate!
>
> Look at the picture here:
> <http://www.screwfix.com/p/honeywell-v4043h-2-port-motorised-valve/31480
>>
>
> The U shaped cover has a small nipple in the middle of the top of the
> plate. That is the indication that the actuator can be replaced without
> draining the sytem.
I've just found another picture which is taken from the right angle to
see the bobble very clearly, and an explanation:
http://www.lovekin.net/honeywell-motorised-valve-faults.html
thanks,
Michael
Michael Kilpatrick
Mar 24, 2013, 4:17:23 PM3/24/13
to
On 24/03/2013 18:20, A.Lee wrote:480
I can get a replacement at a builder's merchants etc in Cambridge in the
morning and try and fit it myslef, then do some diagnostic tests on the
electrics. Then get someone in to flush the system.
Michael
>>
>
> The U shaped cover has a small nipple in the middle of the top of the
> plate. That is the indication that the actuator can be replaced without
> draining the sytem.
> If your top cover is flat, then you'll need to drain down, as once you
> undo the screws holding the actuator to the valve, the water will come
> out.
Tenant reports the existence of a lump on the cover. Good news. I guess
>
> The U shaped cover has a small nipple in the middle of the top of the
> plate. That is the indication that the actuator can be replaced without
> draining the sytem.
> If your top cover is flat, then you'll need to drain down, as once you
> undo the screws holding the actuator to the valve, the water will come
> out.
I can get a replacement at a builder's merchants etc in Cambridge in the
morning and try and fit it myslef, then do some diagnostic tests on the
electrics. Then get someone in to flush the system.
Michael
Mr Pounder
Mar 24, 2013, 5:16:58 PM3/24/13
to
"Michael Kilpatrick" <ne...@mkilpatrick.cospam.uk> wrote in message
news:0cudnVzbqqYBi9LM...@brightview.co.uk...
> Blimey, these things always happen over a cold weekend, don't they?
>
> Are the heads to Honeywell 3-port valves interchangeable? I know they are
> removable, mostly, but is a new one the same as one from 1985 (I guess)?
>
> My tenant called to say the heating wasn't working and I've just been over
> to try to see if I can work out what's wrong. The hot water seemed to be
> on all the time and the central heating only coming on intermittently.
> Obviously I need to get this fixed sharp-ish (they have small children, as
> we do).
>
> <snip>
>
> Are the heads to Honeywell 3-port valves interchangeable? I know they are
> removable, mostly, but is a new one the same as one from 1985 (I guess)?
>
> My tenant called to say the heating wasn't working and I've just been over
> to try to see if I can work out what's wrong. The hot water seemed to be
> on all the time and the central heating only coming on intermittently.
> Obviously I need to get this fixed sharp-ish (they have small children, as
> we do).
>
As a responsible landlord with a duty of care why have you not brought in a
plumber?
As the tenant has small children this should be of concern?
Fredxx
Mar 24, 2013, 6:33:00 PM3/24/13
to
clearly intending to sort out the problem tomorrow, so I'm left
wondering what is the problem?
It sounds like you're a disgruntled tenant?
Mr Pounder
Mar 25, 2013, 7:01:45 AM3/25/13
to
"Fredxx" <fre...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:kinur0$atu$1...@dont-email.me...
cheap.
I could tell you some horror stories.
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