Decking Oil Failure

[Rick Hughes]

Just some feedback ... after advice here, when I finished my decking
project last year gave it 2 full coats of Liberon decking oil.

The decking was not used as at end of summer, so no foot traffic at all
... now this year it has seriously deteriorated ....take a look at:

when completed - http://tinyurl.com/pswjt7m

now - http://tinyurl.com/npe8bhx
and http://tinyurl.com/q5enppc

That seems terrible performance in only 6 months.

Been in touch with Liberon .. they advise full removal with pressure
washer, then full sanding or deck & reapply ....

That means the expensive Liberon has been a waste in cost & and now the
effort & cost of redoing this will be significant.

The area of deck not exposed to rain is unaffected.









--
UK SelfBuild: http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/UK_Selfbuild/

[Andrew Mawson]

"Rick Hughes" wrote in message
news:dOGdnVHv-KgYzffO...@bt.com...

I'm sure there are many here that will disagree, but in my opinion decking
is never a satisfactory solution in our climate. It is a quick cheap
'makeover' solution where dramatic changes are wanted. Far more satisfactory
is some form of paving. Both solutions will get green slimy growths,
especially if trees are close, but the paving won't slowly rot away like the
decking.

Just perhaps if the decking were teak or maybe elm it might have some chance
of lasting. I REALLY went off decking last time we were house hunting (7
years ago). The number of slippery, shoddy, tacky looking bits of 'makeover'
we were exposed to nailed on round houses we were shown was legion.

Andrew

[Andy Cap]

IANAE but that doesn't look like any oil I've used, it looks more like a
varnish ! I don't understand how an oil, which is absorbed by the wood,
would go patchy like that but no doubt the Decking expert will be along
soon to explain the difference.

Andy C

[meow...@care2.com]

ie buy more of the failed stuff. Some companies have such cheek


NT

[The Medway Handyman]

On 07/05/2014 17:00, Andrew Mawson wrote:
> "Rick Hughes" wrote in message
> news:dOGdnVHv-KgYzffO...@bt.com...
>>
>> Just some feedback ... after advice here, when I finished my decking
>> project last year gave it 2 full coats of Liberon decking oil.
>>
>> The decking was not used as at end of summer, so no foot traffic at
>> all ... now this year it has seriously deteriorated ....take a look at:
>>
>> when completed - http://tinyurl.com/pswjt7m
>>
>> now - http://tinyurl.com/npe8bhx
>> and http://tinyurl.com/q5enppc
>>
>> That seems terrible performance in only 6 months.
>>
>> Been in touch with Liberon .. they advise full removal with pressure
>> washer, then full sanding or deck & reapply ....
>>
>> That means the expensive Liberon has been a waste in cost & and now
>> the effort & cost of redoing this will be significant.
>>
>> The area of deck not exposed to rain is unaffected.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> I'm sure there are many here that will disagree, but in my opinion
> decking is never a satisfactory solution in our climate. It is a quick
> cheap 'makeover' solution where dramatic changes are wanted. Far more
> satisfactory is some form of paving. Both solutions will get green slimy
> growths, especially if trees are close, but the paving won't slowly rot
> away like the decking.

Properly installed decking will last for 30 years +.

>
> Just perhaps if the decking were teak or maybe elm it might have some
> chance of lasting. I REALLY went off decking last time we were house
> hunting (7 years ago). The number of slippery, shoddy, tacky looking
> bits of 'makeover' we were exposed to nailed on round houses we were
> shown was legion.

B&Q and Wickes 'how to' leaflets are to blame for that...


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

[The Medway Handyman]

I've never seen anything like that before. For some reason it seems to
not have penetrated the wood - which is the entire point of oil as
opposed to water based stain.

I think Liberon are ducking the issue. Suggesting you sand the deck is
ridiculous.

[LumpHammer]

I've used Liberon and B&Q own-brand decking oil and they've never sat on
surface as that appears to have done. The oil I've used has always
soaked in quickly.

[Andrew Gabriel]

In article <M8uav.305574$AI5.1...@fx32.am4>,

The Medway Handyman <davi...@blueyonder.co.uk> writes:
> On 07/05/2014 16:25, Rick Hughes wrote:
>> Just some feedback ... after advice here, when I finished my decking
>> project last year gave it 2 full coats of Liberon decking oil.
>>
>> The decking was not used as at end of summer, so no foot traffic at all
>> ... now this year it has seriously deteriorated ....take a look at:
>>
>> when completed - http://tinyurl.com/pswjt7m
>>
>> now - http://tinyurl.com/npe8bhx
>> and http://tinyurl.com/q5enppc
>>
>> That seems terrible performance in only 6 months.
>>
>> Been in touch with Liberon .. they advise full removal with pressure
>> washer, then full sanding or deck & reapply ....
>>
>> That means the expensive Liberon has been a waste in cost & and now the
>> effort & cost of redoing this will be significant.
>>
>> The area of deck not exposed to rain is unaffected.
>
>
> I've never seen anything like that before. For some reason it seems to
> not have penetrated the wood - which is the entire point of oil as
> opposed to water based stain.

Decking timber far too wet at time of treatment?

> I think Liberon are ducking the issue. Suggesting you sand the deck is
> ridiculous.

--

Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

[stuart noble]

I don't finish any outdoor timber. It certainly doesn't prolong its
life, and most of it just looks garish to me. If the silver grey look is
good enough for our royal parks, it's good enough for me!

Drying oils such as linseed and tung are film forming. If they're
sufficiently diluted with solvent they don't normally get a chance to do
that

[GMM]

On 07/05/2014 16:25, Rick Hughes wrote:

When I installed a deck (at the last place), I was advised to let it
weather for a year before oiling, to lose whatever it is that's often on
the surface of the timber.
Of course, one year became 3 or so. then I cleaned it all up and oiled
it but we moved the following autumn so I've no idea of the longevity of
the treatment, but it certainly lasted the first year.
On the other hand, my brother installed an area of decking and put
something on it right away (no idea what it was) only for it to start
coming away just like this during the same summer it was installed.

[Rick Hughes]

On 07/05/2014 18:34, The Medway Handyman wrote:

>

> I've never seen anything like that before. For some reason it seems to
> not have penetrated the wood - which is the entire point of oil as
> opposed to water based stain.
>
> I think Liberon are ducking the issue. Suggesting you sand the deck is
> ridiculous.
>

As you know I put a lot of effort into the job ...so frustrating this
has happened.
Liberon suggest that machine of the grooves on the decking had polished
the surface stopping oil from penetrating properly.

[Rick Hughes]

On 07/05/2014 19:03, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

> Decking timber far too wet at time of treatment?
>

Nope was completely dry ... all wood had been dry stored before fixing
and it was dry for 2 weeks before it was 'oiled'
At time stuff seemed to soak right in as it is supposed to.

[Capitol]

The Medway Handyman wrote:

> Properly installed decking will last for 30 years +.

IME 10 years if you're lucky, often 7 and a perpetual maintenance
problem. Another stupid idea imported from the USA. It's problems are
closely followed by felt/shingle roofs. AM is right, paving is a much
lower maintenance problem if you put it down properly.

[Capitol]

I've seen the results of pressure washing decking, splinters and raised
grain everywhere. Don't go there.

[Brian Gaff]

Yes my neighbour has been cleaning it with various substances every about 8
weeks since it was built.
Not only that but I suspect some creatures have moved in under it, as I can
hear them when its quiet at dead of night. I'll stick to my, now a bit
uneven, concrete!

Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Andrew Mawson" <andrew@please_remove_me.mawson.org.uk> wrote in message
news:lkdlb9$61u$1...@dont-email.me...

[The Medway Handyman]

On 07/05/2014 21:11, Capitol wrote:
> The Medway Handyman wrote:
>
>> Properly installed decking will last for 30 years +.

>
> IME 10 years if you're lucky, often 7 and a perpetual maintenance
> problem. Another stupid idea imported from the USA. It's problems are
> closely followed by felt/shingle roofs.

I've been building them for 14 years and not had any sign of failure.

> AM is right, paving is a much
> lower maintenance problem if you put it down properly.

An environmental disaster, unable to cope with slopes or level
differences, makes a huge mess, uncomfortable under foot, wrecks kid's
knees if the fall over....

[The Medway Handyman]

On 07/05/2014 21:09, Rick Hughes wrote:
> On 07/05/2014 18:34, The Medway Handyman wrote:
>
>>
>> I've never seen anything like that before. For some reason it seems to
>> not have penetrated the wood - which is the entire point of oil as
>> opposed to water based stain.
>>
>> I think Liberon are ducking the issue. Suggesting you sand the deck is
>> ridiculous.
>>
>
>
> As you know I put a lot of effort into the job ...so frustrating this
> has happened.
> Liberon suggest that machine of the grooves on the decking had polished
> the surface stopping oil from penetrating properly.
>
>
>

That's never been the case on the 100+ decks I have built. Especially
since you left it for 2 weeks to weather.

[The Medway Handyman]

I've pressure washed dozens including my own. Never had a problem.

What do they use for deck boards where you live? Balsa wood?

[The Medway Handyman]

The entire point of using oil is that it sinks in, something to do with
smaller molecule size(?). What you describe is common with water based
treatments.

[John Rumm]

On 07/05/2014 16:25, Rick Hughes wrote:

> Just some feedback ... after advice here, when I finished my decking
> project last year gave it 2 full coats of Liberon decking oil.
>
> The decking was not used as at end of summer, so no foot traffic at all
> ... now this year it has seriously deteriorated ....take a look at:
>
> when completed - http://tinyurl.com/pswjt7m
>
> now - http://tinyurl.com/npe8bhx
> and http://tinyurl.com/q5enppc

Odd, that looks like it did not really penetrate at all (kind of the
whole point of using an oil finish!)

> That seems terrible performance in only 6 months.
>
> Been in touch with Liberon .. they advise full removal with pressure
> washer, then full sanding or deck & reapply ....

Hmm nice... bet they did not offer a massive discount on the replacement.

I think I might be inclined to do a test with a new bit of timber to see
what works... It may be that the oil needs thinning down to encourage
more take up by the wood.

The alternative might be a Sadolin style of wood finish - which forms a
more durable film finish as well as penetrating.


--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
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|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

[Rick Hughes]

I know you followed teh project as I built it so it had the time before
'oiling'

I'm not even sure what to do ... just light pressure wash to remove any
loose .... and re-oil, but I'm guessing then there will be colour
difference.

[Rick Hughes]

On 08/05/2014 02:55, John Rumm wrote:
> On 07/05/2014 16:25, Rick Hughes wrote:
>> Just some feedback ... after advice here, when I finished my decking
>> project last year gave it 2 full coats of Liberon decking oil.
>>
>> The decking was not used as at end of summer, so no foot traffic at all
>> ... now this year it has seriously deteriorated ....take a look at:
>>
>> when completed - http://tinyurl.com/pswjt7m
>>
>> now - http://tinyurl.com/npe8bhx
>> and http://tinyurl.com/q5enppc
>
> Odd, that looks like it did not really penetrate at all (kind of the
> whole point of using an oil finish!)
>
>> That seems terrible performance in only 6 months.
>>
>> Been in touch with Liberon .. they advise full removal with pressure
>> washer, then full sanding or deck & reapply ....
>
> Hmm nice... bet they did not offer a massive discount on the replacement.
>
> I think I might be inclined to do a test with a new bit of timber to see
> what works... It may be that the oil needs thinning down to encourage
> more take up by the wood.
>
> The alternative might be a Sadolin style of wood finish - which forms a
> more durable film finish as well as penetrating.
>
>

Sadolin would have been cheaper ... what I wanted to avoid was a surface
coating as see them lift off on decking.

As 50% of desk is undercover and is fine ... I gues I'm stuck to re
coating with oil.
Once it is dry enough ......... surface prep will be issue.


Rick

[D.M.Chapman]

In article <19udnWKNr4EG_vbO...@bt.com>,

Rick Hughes <rick_...@remove-me.btconnect.com> wrote:

>Sadolin would have been cheaper ... what I wanted to avoid was a surface
>coating as see them lift off on decking.

It's wierd - I've painted our deck 4 times now with oil, and it's fine. Just fades away nicely.

>
>As 50% of desk is undercover and is fine ... I gues I'm stuck to re
>coating with oil.
>Once it is dry enough ......... surface prep will be issue.

I'd pressure wash it (ignore the doom merchants, it's fine if you have half
a brain) and the oil it with something a little darked - that'll hide the
patches I'd have thought.

Assuming it will sink into the wood where the covering hasn't come off
that is.

The screwfix no nonsence oil is on offer at the moment and 20 quid for 5l.

Used a tin on sunday to paint ours - the oak is darker than I imagined but
seems ok once dry.

Darren

[stuart noble]

Decking is probably the most demanding substrate for any finish. Has to
be hard wearing, uv resistant, able to sit in water for hours at a
stretch and deliver all this regardless of the timber quality.

[GMM]

On 07/05/2014 16:25, Rick Hughes wrote:

Slighty OT but I have to ask (!) I think that job looks excellent and
have thought about doing something similar myself when I get the chance.
The issue that always comes to my mind is whether an open structure
like that is liable to have trouble as a result of the wibd getting
under it and lifting/stressing the roof. Now it's been there a while,
is there any evidence for this concern or have I invented a problem that
doesn't exist?