Tainted drinking water (warning) (OT) Biology person needed.

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Derek Geldard

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Sep 14, 2007, 12:59:17 PM9/14/07
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Just given up on my Maytag side by side fridge freezer because of
numerous design and quality related faults (including tainted drinking
water) becoming apparent this summer and needing an alternative source
of chilled purified drinking water bought one of these :

<http://www.nextag.co.uk/Breville-Brita-Aqua-Fountain-522222357/uk/prices-html>

After the first few days we noticed a tainted mouldy smell from the
upper (input) reservoir, although the filtered water still tasted OK.
the water in there was noticeably warm, about the same as a heated
swimming pool it measured 82F. Room temp is about 72F. It is getting
heated by waste heat from the peltier cooler unit below it. I feel it
can't be safe to store drinking water in an open container for up to
four weeks (the life of a cartridge) at 82F, simply topping it up to
replenish continuously what has been used, (there is a warning in the
manual about flushing it after a period without use), and also wonder
if the activated charcoal cartridge (which is open to the reservoir)
is removing the chlorine which the water company adds to the water to
make it safe to drink. Environmental Health websites recommend storing
cold water below 68F to avoid growing Legionella. 8-((

We have now had an incident of two members of the household suffering
stomach upset and diffuse allergy symptoms (upset stomach, itchy skin
and hives). Nobody will drink the water from it now so it's going back

Does anybody know, could this be a serious enough health hazard to be
worth taking up with somebody like trading standards ?

DG

Peter Parry

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Sep 14, 2007, 1:36:17 PM9/14/07
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On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 17:59:17 +0100, Derek Geldard
<im...@miniac.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>We have now had an incident of two members of the household suffering
>stomach upset and diffuse allergy symptoms (upset stomach, itchy skin
>and hives). Nobody will drink the water from it now so it's going back

Probably not the waters fault but it isn't a particularly bright
design. If you simply put tap water in a clean jug in the fridge for
an hour or so you achieve the same effect as a Brita (or any similar)
filter except for the softening it gives.

>Does anybody know, could this be a serious enough health hazard to be
>worth taking up with somebody like trading standards ?

No it isn't.

If you are particularly paranoid about water consider getting one of
these and simply keeping it in the fridge. It doesn't filter
anything until you use it to produce clean water.

http://www.lifesaversystems.com/

It does work, very effectively.

--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

Pete C

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Sep 14, 2007, 1:38:30 PM9/14/07
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Hi,

I just fill a glass jug (£1.49) of water and leave it for the chlorine
to diffuse out.

Also use it to fill the coffee machine, kettle and rinse around the
sink, so the water in it doesn't hang around too long.

cheers,
Pete.

Onetap

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Sep 14, 2007, 2:31:15 PM9/14/07
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On 14 Sep, 17:59, Derek Geldard <im...@miniac.demon.co.uk> wrote:


> Room temp is about 72F. It is getting
> heated by waste heat from the peltier cooler unit below it. I feel it
> can't be safe to store drinking water in an open container for up to
> four weeks (the life of a cartridge) at 82F, simply topping it up to
> replenish continuously what has been used, (there is a warning in the
> manual about flushing it after a period without use), and also wonder
> if the activated charcoal cartridge (which is open to the reservoir)
> is removing the chlorine which the water company adds to the water to
> make it safe to drink. Environmental Health websites recommend storing
> cold water below 68F to avoid growing Legionella. 8-((

Not fit for purpose, IMHO.

Water goes off as fast as milk. There are lots of bugs in it, in
small quantities. Give them a favourable temperature and they'll start
to multiply. You'll also get other airborne bugs drifting in.
Legionella is the one that happens to be the best documented.

Alternatively, drink beer. The alcohol kills the bugs. it's what they
did in the olde days and why alcohol is the accepted recreational drug
in the west.

On 14 Sep, 18:36, Peter Parry <pe...@wpp.ltd.uk> wrote:
> If you are particularly paranoid about water consider getting one of
> these and simply keeping it in the fridge. It doesn't filter
> anything until you use it to produce clean water.
>
> http://www.lifesaversystems.com/
>
> It does work, very effectively.

Interesting. It's a filter, it will remove suspended solids and bugs.
It won't affect dissolved contaminants.

Derek Geldard

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Sep 14, 2007, 8:00:22 PM9/14/07
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On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 11:31:15 -0700, Onetap <one...@talk21.com> wrote:


>
>Not fit for purpose, IMHO.
>

Glad you agree , it's going back.

> Water goes off as fast as milk.

Tho' in non "Cravendale" milk the bugs get a running start.

> There are lots of bugs in it, in
>small quantities. Give them a favourable temperature and they'll start
>to multiply. You'll also get other airborne bugs drifting in.
>Legionella is the one that happens to be the best documented.
>
>Alternatively, drink beer. The alcohol kills the bugs. it's what they
>did in the olde days and why alcohol is the accepted recreational drug
>in the west.

That's fine by me.

However SWMBO keeps crowing on about something called "Parfait Amour"
would that work as well ?

<http://www.thedrinkshop.com/products/nlpdetail.php?prodid=1395>

>
>On 14 Sep, 18:36, Peter Parry <pe...@wpp.ltd.uk> wrote:
>> If you are particularly paranoid about water consider getting one of
>> these and simply keeping it in the fridge. It doesn't filter
>> anything until you use it to produce clean water.
>>
>> http://www.lifesaversystems.com/
>>
>> It does work, very effectively.
>
>Interesting. It's a filter, it will remove suspended solids and bugs.
>It won't affect dissolved contaminants.

Yebbut, bugger the water bottle it's the uniform I'd like. It's how
you keep it neatly ironed and pressed in the battlefield up to your
neck in muck and bullets that puzzles me.

DG

Clive George

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Sep 14, 2007, 8:34:22 PM9/14/07
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"Derek Geldard" <im...@miniac.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8b7me3hmn92mbel69...@4ax.com...

> Tho' in non "Cravendale" milk the bugs get a running start.

Don't use the word "Cravendale" next to milk - it's an abomination. Grrr.
The watneys red barrel of cow juice.

(and I live in Craven, in the dales...)

cheers,
clive

clot

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Sep 14, 2007, 9:31:07 PM9/14/07
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It really surprises (and annoys me) that the public can be so duped.
The UK water utilities have to supply potable water to our taps to a
higher standard than bottled water - despite the fact that the bulk of
it is used for washing, the loo, etc. Having said that, the
infrastructure is in place.

Over the Pond to the Left of us, unless they can taste chlorine in the
water, they are concerned that it is not safe. If you are concerned
about the chlorine do as other posters have suggested, put a jug in the
fridge for a few hours. Using "magic gadgets to clean tha potable supply
that has been produced at great expense will foul the water that you
want. Any filters or other gizmos just invites primordial monsters to
grow in them and perhaps cause the issues you've faced.

R

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Sep 15, 2007, 1:54:59 AM9/15/07
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"Derek Geldard" <im...@miniac.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:r6ske314phh0a2tue...@4ax.com...

> Just given up on my Maytag side by side fridge freezer because of
> numerous design and quality related faults (including tainted drinking
> water) becoming apparent this summer and needing an alternative source
> of chilled purified drinking water bought one of these :
<snip>

Well we have had one of these for 7 years and it does *Exactly* what it
says.

http://www.sodastream.co.uk/gbretail/category.asp?catalog%5Fname=Sodastream&category%5Fname=Filterstream&Page=1

and before anyone says anything the water does lose it's chlorinated flavour
when using it and results in an altogether better "tastes" than straight of
the tap (NW Kent UK.....Medium hard water chlorinated)


Alan

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Sep 15, 2007, 3:36:44 AM9/15/07
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In message <1189794675....@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com>, Onetap
<one...@talk21.com> wrote

>Alternatively, drink beer. The alcohol kills the bugs.

Boiling the water in the brewing process killed the bugs. Beer still can
still go 'off' very quickly despite the alcohol

--
Alan
news2006 {at} amac {dot} f2s {dot} com

Message has been deleted

Steve Firth

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Sep 15, 2007, 5:27:31 AM9/15/07
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Huge <Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:

> On 2007-09-14, Derek Geldard <im...@miniac.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > Just given up on my Maytag side by side fridge freezer because of
> > numerous design and quality related faults
>

> Can't say as I'm surprised. Their washing machines are laughable, too.

Some vague memory is stirring in the back of my mind that Maytag is more
or less the same as Whirlpool, another Philips cheap and cheerless
brand.

Message has been deleted

meow...@care2.com

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Sep 15, 2007, 9:47:18 AM9/15/07
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Huge wrote:

> When my parents emigrated to the USA in 1978 (or so), they went to buy a washing
> machine and were shown a "top of the range" machine - a top-loading Maytag. They
> laughed, and thought the salesman was winding them up because they were
> immigrants with funny accents (although my father was a US citizen, not that you
> could have told from his appearance & accent). Then they discovered he wasn't
> kidding; American washing machine technology is 20-30 years behind that in
> Europe.

US still uses top loaders mostly. we laugh at them for their gross
inefficiency and outdated technology, and they laugh at us for
buying machines that only take 5kg of washing at a time.


NT

meow...@care2.com

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Sep 15, 2007, 9:51:20 AM9/15/07
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Derek Geldard wrote:

> However SWMBO keeps crowing on about something called "Parfait Amour"
> would that work as well ?
>
> <http://www.thedrinkshop.com/products/nlpdetail.php?prodid=1395>

What are you trying to achieve? If you want clean water, the tap
provides the cleanest water you'll find. If you want dechlorinated,
just let it sit for an hour with a loose cover on it so the Cl2
diffuses
out. If you want chilled, fridge it in a jug. Whatever you do with
water, keep it covered and wash the container frequently,
preferably every 2 or 3 days. I cant think of any product that will
really improve on it without introducing more problems.


NT

raden

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Sep 15, 2007, 1:07:23 PM9/15/07
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In message <GHzy9ArM...@amac.f2s.com>, Alan
<junk_...@amac.f2s.com> writes

>In message <1189794675....@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com>,
>Onetap <one...@talk21.com> wrote
>
>>Alternatively, drink beer. The alcohol kills the bugs.
>
>Boiling the water in the brewing process killed the bugs. Beer still
>can still go 'off' very quickly despite the alcohol
>
Not a fan of William Cobbett, then ?

--
geoff

Derek Geldard

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Sep 15, 2007, 4:05:28 PM9/15/07
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On 15 Sep 2007 10:17:41 GMT, Huge <Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:


>OTOH, I'm having an American 'frig the next time we re-do the kitchen.
>

Be aware that Maytag (US) make a European model which is scaled down
to match the size of European kitchens and kitchen units. That's what
I've got. The original American size models are available over here
and seem to give a good account of themselves and don't cost much
more. They will, however dwarf everything else in a typical European
kitchen, that is if they can be got in at all. The dealer usually
insists on doing a "Survey", which is chargeable, Ca. £30 IIRC.

ISTR Andy Hall saying he had one and was pleased with it.

OTOH our reputation for rip - off Britain must have proceeded ahead of
us when it came to them making one for the European market.

Much functionality has been stripped out. By design the water
dispenser dispenses water at the same temperature as the kitchen tap.
There is no water filter so very soon bugs start growing in the water
lines in the machine (no way to clean these) and in the absence of any
filter the water is tainted. Warm and tainted, in fact. The shelves
made of droopy thermoplastic are cantilevered out and not secure in
the doors causing one of ours to fall out and a 4 pint bottle of milk
to burst on the kitchen floor. Nor are the shelves in the fridge door
adjustable as are the ones they make for their home market.

There seems to be some flaw in the design of the drainage of defrost
water from both fridge and freezer (these are separate), both have the
habit of freezing up resulting in water coming out from the bottom of
either / both doors and seriously damaging a genuine hardwood floor
and an adjacent kitchen cupboard (that was apparently made of
Weetabix), when it is worked hard in our tropical summer here in
Leeds. This is a fairly common problem with American fridges (not just
in Leeds! ) as I found searching t'internet when I had these problems.

The icemaker is finicky as hell, left alone unused for a day or two
the cubes meld together in a lump and stall the lead screw motor that
propels them to the opening in the door. If operated by a sprog
getting no ice causes them to keep their digit on the "ICE" titty ad-
Infinitum resulting in the ice door solenoid burning out in a few odd
minutes, it happened to us. For no good reason the sparge pipe which
dispenses water into the ice cube mould occasionally freezes up, the
result is no ice cubes until it is manually melted, when this happens
all the pipe joints upstream of the freeze-up as far as the water
solenoid valve leak water because they are not rated for the pressure
and the water valve stays open for the duration, because the ice cube
mould doesn't get filled.

However the most fundamental complaint has to be that the scaled down
geometry simply does not work. The shelves in those chunky doors
extend into the fridge and freezer cavities, that, taken with the room
taken up by the icemaker gubbins means the freezer has both very small
capacity and small dimensions, some frozen food packets won't go in.

Apart fom that it's not too bad. 8-((

As I said Andy is happy about his American model and I respect his
opinion. But lets just say that I wouldn't choose to deal again with a
company which produced such an abortion of a product for the UK market
with so many design and quality issues, knowing full well that they
produce a much more satisfactory model for their home market.

It's on it's way out I'm going for a MIELE next time.

DG

Andy Hall

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Sep 15, 2007, 4:48:49 PM9/15/07
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On 2007-09-15 21:05:28 +0100, Derek Geldard <im...@miniac.demon.co.uk> said:

> On 15 Sep 2007 10:17:41 GMT, Huge <Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>
>
>> OTOH, I'm having an American 'frig the next time we re-do the kitchen.
>>
>
> Be aware that Maytag (US) make a European model which is scaled down
> to match the size of European kitchens and kitchen units. That's what
> I've got. The original American size models are available over here
> and seem to give a good account of themselves and don't cost much
> more. They will, however dwarf everything else in a typical European
> kitchen, that is if they can be got in at all. The dealer usually
> insists on doing a "Survey", which is chargeable, Ca. £30 IIRC.
>
> ISTR Andy Hall saying he had one and was pleased with it.

Yes, I've had it for some time and it's been fine. This is one of
the U.S. models and is pretty solidly made.
The only adaption for the European market was that stainless steel
cladding is added, which was not typical for the U.S. domestic models.
IIRC, it was fitted in a factory in Germany before final delivery.
The FF itself was made in Chicago according to the labels.

Features I like:

- there is a pair of rack rails at the back of the fridge section.
The shelves slot onto this and can be adjusted up and down with a
handle on the front of the shelf. Thus one can moce things around
and adjust.

- there are three drawers at the bottom with individual temperature
controls and although simple - they are sliders operating vents, they
do vary the temperatures as stated.

- very ample storage in the door.

- considering its relatively small size, the freezer is
compartmentalised very well with pull out baskets and one can fit a lot
into it.

None of those problems at all with my one.

There's a water filter cartridge that fits into a place in the roof of
the fridge inside and needs changing 1-2x a year.

The icemaker has worked well and there's a very substantial motor and
lead screw to crush the ice.

I did have one recent problem that the rate of water delivery slowed
down and a side effect of that was that the icemaker metal tray didn't
fill very much either. Result was hollow ice cubes. The problem
turned out to be a filter on one of the solenoid valves which was
easily fixed.

>
> However the most fundamental complaint has to be that the scaled down
> geometry simply does not work. The shelves in those chunky doors
> extend into the fridge and freezer cavities, that, taken with the room
> taken up by the icemaker gubbins means the freezer has both very small
> capacity and small dimensions, some frozen food packets won't go in.
>
> Apart fom that it's not too bad. 8-((
>
> As I said Andy is happy about his American model and I respect his
> opinion. But lets just say that I wouldn't choose to deal again with a
> company which produced such an abortion of a product for the UK market
> with so many design and quality issues, knowing full well that they
> produce a much more satisfactory model for their home market.
>
> It's on it's way out I'm going for a MIELE next time.

I think that if I were looking again, I would do a survey of the
market. Products change, companies get acquired - as in the case of
Maytag by Whirlpool - so what was good 7 years ago may not be any more.

If you are going to look for a replacement, take a look at Liebherr.
I market surveyed for an upright freezer about three years ago and
have been very pleased with their product. I would be surprised if
their fridge freezers were disappointing. You can expect them to be
at the Miele end of the market from the price perspective but I think
good value for money.


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