Velux Window Leak

[Darrell Blake]

During the heavy rain last week one of the Velux windows in my daughter's attic bedroom started to leak. I've had a quick look at it and there's clear signs of water getting under a metal bar on the right hand side and has rotted away a screw hole over time allowing the bar to loosen and then let in more water. I think that's what's happened, anyway.

Is this something I can fix myself? Ideally I'd like to fill the screw hole to allow me to screw the bar down properly again, maybe with some sealant to try and stop it happening again. I've spoken to a few window repair companies in the area but they all only replace Velux windows, they don't repair. Moreover, it's in the roof of a four storey town house so they'd have to get scaffolding up so it wouldn't be cheap and with the cost of living at the moment we're just not in a position to afford that.

I need some way to fix it from the inside myself, really, which severly limits what I'm able to do. Also, with it constantly raining the weather isn't on my side to give me time for the wood to dry out or anything. I know that ultimately it needs fixing properly or replacing, I'm just trying to come up with a temporary measure that can tide us over until we are in a better position to afford it. And it'll stop my daughter from complaining that she has kitchen roll jammed in the window frame :D I did try replacing the screw with a slightly longer one temporarily to try and hold the bar better but I think the hole is too rotten.

Here's a picture of the metal bar which I've unscrewed at the bottom so you can see the rotten hole (this is about as far as I can lift the bar up from the inside too): https://i.imgur.com/UKTe1h0.jpg

I also recorded a couple of videos whilst trying to diagnose the problem which might give some more info:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jWopGo8tEo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2D1rQWZmHu8

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Mike Clarke]

On 23/11/2022 10:20, Darrell Blake wrote:

> Is this something I can fix myself? Ideally I'd like to fill the screw hole to allow me to screw the bar down properly again, maybe with some sealant to try and stop it happening again. I've spoken to a few window repair companies in the area but they all only replace Velux windows, they don't repair. Moreover, it's in the roof of a four storey town house so they'd have to get scaffolding up so it wouldn't be cheap and with the cost of living at the moment we're just not in a position to afford that.

Is it a genuine Velux or a lookalike? If it's a real one try contacting
Velux for advice, they were helpful when we had a problem with one of ours.

Also, if I remember correctly, Velux spare parts are available and it is
even possible to replace the flashing (and even the entire window) from
the inside so any repairer who wants to replace the whole thing might be
trying to rip you off.

[alan_m]

On 23/11/2022 10:20, Darrell Blake wrote:

Quick and dirty fix and assuming that you cannot get tha bar any higher
off the wood.

Get some Ronseal Wet Rot Wood Hardener which has a consistency of water
and soak the wood around the hole (use a small paint brush to apply the
hardener). It will soak into any rotten wood and dry/cure rock hard
within an hour.
Get some two part car body or two part wood filler and fill the hole
making sure that you pack the filler tightly down into the hole. If you
inadvertently over fill the hole the excess filler can be removed with a
craft knife after a few or 10 minutes when solid but soft state or you
can sandpaper it flat after a few to 10 minutes. Just keep checking your
left over mixed filler to find when it has just gone solid. Once that
has hardened*, again within an hour, drill a pilot hole for the screw
and tighten it down.

*Once the filler has fully hardened it still can be sanded down but a
lot more effort is required compared to when it just went solid and is
still soft.

https://www.ronseal.com/products/high-performance-wet-rot-wood-hardener/

https://www.screwfix.com/p/ronseal-wet-rot-wood-hardener-clear-500ml/63540


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

[alan_m]

The Ronseal product is a resin and is waterproof.

Alternative 2

First treat the whole area with the Ronseal Wet Rot Wood Hardener.
Drill a new hole through the metal, say an inch away from the old hole
and use that position to screw the metal and wood. Fill the old hole
with silicone sealant to make it water tight (possibly filling the old
hole before screwing down in the new screw position.

Aternative 3

If you can remove the metal and get to the wood, again first treat the
whole area with the Ronseal Wet Rot Wood Hardener, find some round
wooden dowelling larger than the hole and re-drill the hole to the
diameter of the dowelling. Glue the dowelling into the newly drilled
hole. Once the glue is dry and you have cut off any excess dowel the
screw now screws into sound wood. In the absence of any suitable
dowelling multiple cocktail sticks with the sharp end cut off glued into
the hole can also work but let the glue fully dry which may be a day in
our current weather.

[Darrell Blake]

I believe so. We've only been in the house for 18 months but I think that they're the original windows that were installed when the house was built 14 years ago. It's odd that so many companies won't repair. Maybe there's just not enough money in it.

[Darrell Blake]

Excellent, thanks for that! Sounds like a decent solution, even if it's only temporary. Looks like we might have a few dry days next week so I might give it a try then.

[Mike Clarke]

On 23/11/2022 13:37, Darrell Blake wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 23, 2022 at 11:14:42 AM UTC, Mike Clarke wrote:

<snip>

>> Is it a genuine Velux or a lookalike? If it's a real one try contacting
>> Velux for advice, they were helpful when we had a problem with one of ours.

<snip>

> I believe so. We've only been in the house for 18 months but I think that they're the original windows that were installed when the house was built 14 years ago.

If it's a Velux there should be an identification plate with the model
number somewhere on the side of the opening part.

[Brian]

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v-1rQWZmHu8

>
> Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
>

I’d check the seal around the glass. This is a common source of leaks and
the water gets under the opening part to the area you show.

You can remove the metal around the glass, clean away the old mastic, and
reseal.

[alan_m]

Installing from new you probably need to be climbing on the roof but
replacing can be done from inside.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDSHTypr6Q4

[Andrew]

On 23/11/2022 13:37, Darrell Blake wrote:

After replaying your 2nd video over and over I cannot see how those
exposed screw heads are protected from rain at all.

Are they always exposed like that even when the window is closed ?.
If so, I think they should have been fitted with some sort of
rain cover or at the very least sealed with UV resistant mastic
of some sort.

Unless that angular bar is covered when the window is closed
then either the installation is wrong (check with Velux if it
is genuine) or something was omitted by the original roofer.

[Andrew]

But it is the frame that is suffering from water ingress, not the
opening 'casement'.

[Andrew]

A quick temporary fix is to get some UV resistant tape from
screwfix or similar and stick that over all the exposed
screw heads on each side of the frame. These are the problem.

Wait until summer when the timber that has stained black has
had a chance to dry out.

[Darrell Blake]

> If it's a Velux there should be an identification plate with the model
> number somewhere on the side of the opening part.

Just had a look and there is an identification plate so it looks genuine.

[Darrell Blake]

> After replaying your 2nd video over and over I cannot see how those
> exposed screw heads are protected from rain at all.

I thought the same thing! Especially that one at the top that looks like it's not flush.

> Are they always exposed like that even when the window is closed ?.

Just had a quick look at one of our other Velux windows (daughter is in bed at the mo) and part of the window does cover that screw at the bottom so tomorrow I'll check that. However, the wonky screw at the top is definitely exposed. Maybe the water is coming in at the top and running down and the bottom screw was a red herring all along.

If I open the window fully I can reach the screw at the top by effectively reaching out "in front" of the open window, if you know what I mean. So I'll at least try the UV tape method first. Hopefully changing one thing at a time and then seeing what happens in heavy rain will allow me to diagnose what the actual problem is.

[Brian]

The ‘route’ is through via the casement to the frame.

[Darrell Blake]

> The ‘route’ is through via the casement to the frame.

Do you think it's likely to be the screw at the top where the start of the route is? Ideally it's the start of the route that needs to be fixed otherwise I'd just be moving the problem elsewhere. Though, to be honest, if I can just come up with any solution to tide me over until the warmer weather next year I'd take it :D

[Darrell Blake]

I've just been and taken some better photos of the screws at the top of the window in the light of day.

This is the screw at the top of the side of the window that's leaking: https://i.imgur.com/cygIlGa.jpg
This is the screw on the opposite side that isn't leaking: https://i.imgur.com/lZpoK2a.jpg

Maybe it's a red herring but that first screw looks dodgy to me... Also, I'm not convinced that the window does properly cover the bottom screw like I thought it did last night. Technically it will cover it from direct rain but not from water running down the metal panel, that would still run over the screw. You can see the metal frame that would cover the screw hanging over the wooden frame in this photo: https://i.imgur.com/lZpoK2a.jpg

[Davidm]

Some years ago I fitted 4 Velux windows into our roof working
completely from inside, even removing the roof tiles to create the
initial opening, so certainly possible to dismantle and repair from
inside.

[Darrell Blake]

> You can see the metal frame that would cover the screw hanging over the wooden frame in this photo: https://i.imgur.com/lZpoK2a.jpg

Just realised that I posted the wrong image link. Here's the right one: https://i.imgur.com/NE3vULG.jpg

[Darrell Blake]

> Some years ago I fitted 4 Velux windows into our roof working
> completely from inside, even removing the roof tiles to create the
> initial opening, so certainly possible to dismantle and repair from
> inside.

That's encouraging. It's beyond my DIY abilities but at least if I do some searching around I might find a company who's willing to do it when we're in a position to afford it.

[SH]

have a look at the rows of tiles above the velux window. If any are
cracked, replace the tile.

One of our tiles cracked. So the rain water got through the crack and
then into the velux window and then into the dining room.

Replacing the cracked tile sorted it out.

[Davidm]

You are aware that you can lift the casement completely out of the
frame, working from the inside, then turn it so that you can lower it
into the room. Depends how big the casement is of course, they are
fairly heavy.
On each hinge plate (the part screwed to the frame) there's one posi
head screw, which when loosened off allows the tounge on the window
part of the hinge to slide out from the fixed housing.
I always tie a bit of rope around the window casement and the other
end to something solid inside the room, just in case of a mishap when
removing or refitting!

[Darrell Blake]

> You are aware that you can lift the casement completely out of the
> frame, working from the inside, then turn it so that you can lower it
> into the room. Depends how big the casement is of course, they are
> fairly heavy.
> On each hinge plate (the part screwed to the frame) there's one posi
> head screw, which when loosened off allows the tounge on the window
> part of the hinge to slide out from the fixed housing.
> I always tie a bit of rope around the window casement and the other
> end to something solid inside the room, just in case of a mishap when
> removing or refitting!

Yeah, but I wouldn't want to attempt to do anything like that on my own in-case I couldn't get it back in or accidentally send it soaring off the roof and onto my car below :D Certainly not until we're unlikely to get any bad weather anyway. To be honest, given my lack of DIY skills I just want to do something that'll tide me over until the spring where I can find a company who'll come and fix it properly.

[alan_m]

On 24/11/2022 10:00, Davidm wrote:


> I always tie a bit of rope around the window casement and the other
> end to something solid inside the room, just in case of a mishap when
> removing or refitting!

After the first mishap, I can remember always tying a bit of string to a
spring when servicing the back brakes on a Mk3 Cortina to prevent said
spring from disappearing into the distance when extended fully it
slipped from the jaw of long nose pliers :)

[Andrew]

On 24/11/2022 09:51, Darrell Blake wrote:
>> You can see the metal frame that would cover the screw hanging over the wooden frame in this photo: https://i.imgur.com/lZpoK2a.jpg
>
> Just realised that I posted the wrong image link. Here's the right one: https://i.imgur.com/NE3vULG.jpg

It looks like the overhanging outer metal frame of the casement covers
the lower screws, but if this is a Velux, does the casement hinge
and rotate about its mid point ?. If so does anything cover those
two top screws when the window is closed ?.

If not, then those screws and the metal 'tab' that is bent
over just below them are points of weakness.

I would search the internet and locate the manufacturers
full installation instructions and see how it was meant
to be done.

An external photo of the whole window taken from the
outside with the window closed would help, but unless
you can take the glass out or borrow a drone then
this is tricky.

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 24/11/2022 10:20, alan_m wrote:
> On 24/11/2022 10:00, Davidm wrote:
>
>
>> I always tie a bit of rope around the window casement and the other
>> end to something solid inside the room, just in case of a mishap when
>> removing or refitting!
>
> After the first mishap, I can remember always tying a bit of string to a
> spring when servicing the back brakes on a Mk3 Cortina to prevent said
> spring from disappearing into the distance when extended fully it
> slipped from the jaw of long nose pliers :)
>

Ah a BIG pingfuckit
--
"Women actually are capable of being far more than the feminists will
let them."

[Darrell Blake]

> It looks like the overhanging outer metal frame of the casement covers
> the lower screws, but if this is a Velux, does the casement hinge
> and rotate about its mid point ?. If so does anything cover those
> two top screws when the window is closed ?.
>
> If not, then those screws and the metal 'tab' that is bent
> over just below them are points of weakness.
>
> I would search the internet and locate the manufacturers
> full installation instructions and see how it was meant
> to be done.
>
> An external photo of the whole window taken from the
> outside with the window closed would help, but unless
> you can take the glass out or borrow a drone then
> this is tricky.

I'm pretty sure nothing covers them. The attic room has two Velux windows and luckily the side that's leaking on the one faces the other one so I just leaned out of it to try and get the best shot of the leaking window closed and it looks like this: https://i.imgur.com/QZPio2A.jpg

I've labelled where the screw is and you can see the dimple in the frame which is also visible here: https://i.imgur.com/I47m5BJ.jpg

But I presume any water that enters that screw hole drops onto the plate that runs underneath...

[Andrew]

This video looks like it could be the Velux installation
instructions for your window, *excpet* the lower screws
are not shown. Did the builder add his own or use two
screws that were intended to secure the hood ?.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgJkwFKgrYQ

Also refer to this video which is even more useful -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fY7LxqAH5KQ

There is no mention of fitting those two lower screws.
I suspect the builder incorrectly drilled holes for the
two lower screws and used a pair of 30mm stainless screws
intended for other parts of the installation. It looks
like the side flashing should only be held in place with
those fold-down tabs.

If this the case you are stuffed. The only solution is
to wait for dry weather and put a big glob of black
neutral cure silicon over the heads of all exposed
screws that are holding the side and hood flashing
into position.

Also, note that the correct installation should have
incorporated a water deflector, (6:48) set at a slight
downwards slope about 20 cm above the top of the
window frame to deflect any water that gets under
the files and runs down the underfelt. If this is
missing and rain water is blown *under* the tiles
then this might be why you get water inside sometimes.

You can remove the entire sash according to those
videos by depressing a button near the hinge and
stand on a chair and push back the tiles above
the window to check for the presence of this rain
deflector.

[Darrell Blake]

That's excellent, thanks! I think the second one is my window because the model number (according to the plate that's on the underside of the window) says GGLC04. It looks to me like the screws are meant to be there, though, because there's actual recesses in the plate for the screws to go into. It doesn't look like the plate's been drilled through. Regardless, I might just try and wait for the weather to dry out and then seal the screw heads anyway. I'm not going to know if it is that until I at least try it.

[alan_m]

As your original posts show the loose screws means that the metal bits
are not fixed tightly to the wood frame underneath so just covering the
screw heads now is not going to stop water getting in anywhere along the
length of of that frame. Originally water may have entered via the
screw head because of a bad initial assembly but now you may have a
secondary problem now that the screws can no longer grip into the wood.

[Darrell Blake]

> As your original posts show the loose screws means that the metal bits
> are not fixed tightly to the wood frame underneath so just covering the
> screw heads now is not going to stop water getting in anywhere along the
> length of of that frame. Originally water may have entered via the
> screw head because of a bad initial assembly but now you may have a
> secondary problem now that the screws can no longer grip into the wood.

Yeah, that's a good point. I'm probably going to have to use one of your inital solutions with the rotten wood hardener too. At least if I do that and then seal the screw heads and water is still coming in then I'll know that it was a red herring all along.

[Paul G]

I would contact Velux directly and ask for help/advice. In my (limited)
experience, their support line is excellent. As an example, recently
they replaced four glazed panels which were manufactured in 2003, under
a recall scheme. Send them your photos and see what they say.

On 23/11/2022 10:20, Darrell Blake wrote:

> During the heavy rain last week one of the Velux windows in my daughter's attic bedroom started to leak. I've had a quick look at it and there's clear signs of water getting under a metal bar on the right hand side and has rotted away a screw hole over time allowing the bar to loosen and then let in more water. I think that's what's happened, anyway.
>
> Is this something I can fix myself? Ideally I'd like to fill the screw hole to allow me to screw the bar down properly again, maybe with some sealant to try and stop it happening again. I've spoken to a few window repair companies in the area but they all only replace Velux windows, they don't repair. Moreover, it's in the roof of a four storey town house so they'd have to get scaffolding up so it wouldn't be cheap and with the cost of living at the moment we're just not in a position to afford that.
>
> I need some way to fix it from the inside myself, really, which severly limits what I'm able to do. Also, with it constantly raining the weather isn't on my side to give me time for the wood to dry out or anything. I know that ultimately it needs fixing properly or replacing, I'm just trying to come up with a temporary measure that can tide us over until we are in a better position to afford it. And it'll stop my daughter from complaining that she has kitchen roll jammed in the window frame :D I did try replacing the screw with a slightly longer one temporarily to try and hold the bar better but I think the hole is too rotten.
>
> Here's a picture of the metal bar which I've unscrewed at the bottom so you can see the rotten hole (this is about as far as I can lift the bar up from the inside too): https://i.imgur.com/UKTe1h0.jpg
>
> I also recorded a couple of videos whilst trying to diagnose the problem which might give some more info:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jWopGo8tEo

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2D1rQWZmHu8

[Darrell Blake]

> I would contact Velux directly and ask for help/advice. In my (limited)
> experience, their support line is excellent. As an example, recently
> they replaced four glazed panels which were manufactured in 2003, under
> a recall scheme. Send them your photos and see what they say.

Yeah, I will. They might even be able to point towards a local company who will actually be willing to repair it.