"Old" bicycle parts (Raleigh front hub).

[David Paste]

Hello all,

I am struggling to fix the front wheel on an "old" raleigh bike. 1970s, maybe
early '80s vintage, a ladies shopper type with 32-597 tyres, that
is 26 x 1 1/4 inch.

The front hub seems to be quite narrow at about 80-ish mm, and the axle is
120 mm long and about 7.3 mm diameter. ( 9/32" ?). Local bike shop drew
a blank, sadly.

The axle is bent just enough to make it unuseable. I managed to get the
cone off one side but the other is captured where it is.

Does anyone know where I can pick up a replacement? I have looked on
ebay, etc to no avail. But I may be ignorant of the specifications and/or
descriptions so much that I have missed what I need.

Thanks in advance.

[David]

<https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewforum.php?f=5>

This is a good source for bike questions.

Cheers



Dave R


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[David Paste]

On Sunday, 19 June 2022 at 13:38:40 UTC+1, David WE Roberts (Google) wrote:

> <https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewforum.php?f=5>
>
> This is a good source for bike questions.

Nice one, thanks!

[Paul]

We have one shop here, that recycles bicycles.

The shop owner has a drawer, chock full of axles, and
a number of years ago, I got an axle "off a tandem bike".
The axle was longer than a standard axle, and one
of its assets, is the axle would not bend like
conventional axles do.

I would not expect to find such an item at a regular
bicycle shop. It might have to be special-ordered.

You might also go hunting for a hub and get the
necessary components that way.

https://www.peterwhitecycles.com/tandemparts.php

It isn't that hard to rebuild a wheel (needing new hub).
I've done it twice, and I don't know why,
but it worked out relatively well for the kind of
bike repairs I can manage. The wheel wasn't exactly
true, but it was still usable. One of the tricks is
turning the nipples exactly the same number of turns
as you rebuild. So that you can't blame the materials
for throwing off the trueness. It then doesn't take
very much correction, to finish the job.

A spoke tension measuring device (something every bike owner
should have), helps you get and keep things in tune.
When spokes unscrew themselves, the tension gauge
can catch that, if you do regular scans. If you
allow spokes to be tuned to different strain,
they'll snap on you. i used to snap half a dozen
spokes a year, until I figured this out. Now,
the yearly toll is zero.

"Park Tool Spoke Tension Meter - TM-1" [check a local shop, not Amazon]
https://www.amazon.ca/Park-Tool-Spoke-Tension-Meter/dp/B000OZDIGY

Paul

[Animal]

Don't shopper and 26" wheels contradict each other?

[Andy Burns]

Animal wrote:

> Don't shopper and 26" wheels contradict each other?

Not all 'shoppers' are Raliegh Twentys or Moultons

<https://www.pashley.co.uk/bikes/bicycles/princess-classic.php>

[David Paste]

On Sunday, 19 June 2022 at 23:30:46 UTC+1, Paul wrote:

> I would not expect to find such an item at a regular
> bicycle shop. It might have to be special-ordered.
>
> You might also go hunting for a hub and get the
> necessary components that way.

Thanks. I ended up finding what I needed on ebay in the end, a place called
bankrupt bike parts. New old stock stuff I think it must be. Anyway, they managed
to provide the axel and tyres, and to my surprise my local bike shop had suitable
inner tubes. Got brake blocks and cables from Decathlon and it now lives! I was
surprised by how much difference the new brake cables (and outer sheaths) made
in the usability. Now I just need to read aup about Sturmey Archer 3 speed hubs.

> https://www.peterwhitecycles.com/tandemparts.php
>
> It isn't that hard to rebuild a wheel (needing new hub).
> I've done it twice, and I don't know why,
> but it worked out relatively well for the kind of
> bike repairs I can manage. The wheel wasn't exactly
> true, but it was still usable. One of the tricks is
> turning the nipples exactly the same number of turns
> as you rebuild. So that you can't blame the materials
> for throwing off the trueness. It then doesn't take
> very much correction, to finish the job.
>
> A spoke tension measuring device (something every bike owner
> should have), helps you get and keep things in tune.
> When spokes unscrew themselves, the tension gauge
> can catch that, if you do regular scans. If you
> allow spokes to be tuned to different strain,
> they'll snap on you. i used to snap half a dozen
> spokes a year, until I figured this out. Now,
> the yearly toll is zero.

I have snapped maybe 5 spokes in total in the past 4 years or so of riding my bike
(it's a "29er" mountain bike) and I am not a lightweight guy, so I think I did alright
there! I have had the rear wheel completely rip apart though, the clinchers just
failed. I think it was a crap wheel though, from talking to other people, and
comparing it with its (not exactly high-end) replacement.

My next project will be to learn how to build a wheel. I can see a time when the 597
wheels on this shopper will come to the end of their life in one way or another and
so replacing them with 559 sized 26" wheels will be useful. Got to be honest, it
doesn't look too difficult from the video tutorials I've seen, and it seems just taking
your time and being careful with the final adjustments is the key.

I will investigate the spoke tensioning meter, thanks. I know that the "normal"
spoke pattern is very strong and my experience would certainly support this, but
having a strong, stiff wheel makes it all the nicer to ride - I don't particularly like the
flexible feeling of loose spokes.

There is one particular video I've seen of a Scottish trick bike rider who builds his
own wheels up and his secret trick is to stand on the spoke after the initial
tightening to just stretch them a little bit. He is quite a slight fellow though; I don't
know if that would be wide for me to attempt!

Cheers!

[David Paste]

That's the style! "Step-through frame" is possibly more accurate.

[jkn]

Building Bike wheels is fun, and quite theraputic IME. I have done perhaps half a dozen
in my time, and never had any issues with them. For a 'performance racer' I would
probably take them to a specialist, but for normal bikes I'm happy to do them myself.

I leaned from a little book cunningly titled "Building Bicycle Wheels":

# sorry, not the full PDF here
https://archive.org/details/buildingbicyclew00wrig/page/n3/mode/2up

but as you say there will be plenty of Youtube videos on it now.

I have a Park Trueing stand now but would not hesitate to have a go without,
especially if for an old bike like yours

[Paul]

One problem I have here, is the replacement spokes are great
(stainless steel and seem quite strong). It's the nipples that
screw in, that are miserable and cannot take proper tension.
My tensiometer, I take measurements, and I'd like to give the
nipples another half turn to a turn, but the body of the
nipple starts to deform and fail.

Since neither is magnetic, my assumption is that the nipple
is brass, with some sort of plate-up on the outside.

https://i.postimg.cc/8PkdY31p/spoke.gif

I don't know why they're doing this. I don't suspect the
shop of shoddy materials, as I've never had trouble in the
past. But for some reason, you just cannot crank the living
shit out of them any more. Maybe someone is doing this,
in design, to prevent pulling the nipple right through the
wheel, via excess tension. But whatever the excuse, the
behavior is annoying and makes it harder to tune everything
as you would like. If I thought I should be buying a different
type of nipple, I would have tried that already.

The active surface of the tightening tool (horseshoe shaped
tool) is the same length as the square body of the nipple.
So there is sufficient surface on the tool, to use all the
available area on the nipple for tensioning. Maybe the
problem is, if the nipple doesn't go all the way
through the rim, not enough of the squared part sticks
out for the tightening tool to use. And that's my problem.

Paul

[David Paste]

On Thursday, 30 June 2022 at 13:13:00 UTC+1, jkn wrote:

> I leaned from a little book cunningly titled "Building Bicycle Wheels":
>
> # sorry, not the full PDF here
> https://archive.org/details/buildingbicyclew00wrig/page/n3/mode/2up

Thanks!

> I have a Park Trueing stand now but would not hesitate to have a go without,
> especially if for an old bike like yours

I don't think I'll be buying a trueing frame just yet; I'll make do with the wheel in
position, and something to attach to the forks!

[David Paste]

On Thursday, 30 June 2022 at 16:05:04 UTC+1, Paul wrote:

> One problem I have here, is the replacement spokes are great
> (stainless steel and seem quite strong). It's the nipples that
> screw in, that are miserable and cannot take proper tension.
> My tensiometer, I take measurements, and I'd like to give the
> nipples another half turn to a turn, but the body of the
> nipple starts to deform and fail.

I have had similar experiences when diddling me nipples, and found
that it is essential to have a properly fitting, snug spoke key. I have
an old tool with various size keys on it and luckily the smallest one
is the correct size.

From what I have read / watched so far, the brass nipples might only
be useable once, but don't quote me on that. And of course making
sure the treads are lubricated, and where they meet the rim, too.

But really it's all still theoretical from my point of view at the
moment, so I'll happily submit to experience.

[Rob Morley]

On Mon, 20 Jun 2022 07:56:17 +0100
Andy Burns <use...@andyburns.uk> wrote:

> Animal wrote:
>
> Not all 'shoppers' are Raliegh Twentys or Moultons
>
> <https://www.pashley.co.uk/bikes/bicycles/princess-classic.php>
>

That's more a "town bike" (older term) or "city bike" (more recent) than
a shopper - "shopper" tends to be used for the Raleigh Twenty
smaller-wheeled type of bike with a rack and/or basket and mudguards.

[Rob Morley]

Or "open frame" or "loop frame" (rather than diamond frame) for the
traditional "lady's" bike, but that's just the frame type, not the bike
type.

[JNugent]

"Town bike" had a different meaning when I were a lad.

[Rob Morley]

On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 10:00:28 -0700 (PDT)
David Paste <paste...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I don't think I'll be buying a trueing frame just yet; I'll make do
> with the wheel in position, and something to attach to the forks!

You can use a pencil and a rubber band to indicate roundness, and
just rest a thumb on the frame or fork to find the out-of-true
sections.

[Rob Morley]

On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 10:11:02 -0700 (PDT)
David Paste <paste...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thursday, 30 June 2022 at 16:05:04 UTC+1, Paul wrote:
>
> I have had similar experiences when diddling me nipples, and found
> that it is essential to have a properly fitting, snug spoke key. I
> have an old tool with various size keys on it and luckily the
> smallest one is the correct size.

I've found those to be awkward to use and not grip very well - the
Rixen & Kaul Spokey type works very well and doesn't cost much.

> From what I have read / watched so far, the brass nipples might only
> be useable once, but don't quote me on that.

That may be true of aluminium alloy nipples but not decent brass ones.

> And of course making
> sure the treads are lubricated, and where they meet the rim, too.

It is important - different builders prefer different lubes, linseed
oil is a traditional one that lubricates the build then goes gummy to
help prevent loosening spokes. I just stick the nipples in the cap of a
GT85 can and give them a good squirt.

>
> But really it's all still theoretical from my point of view at the
> moment, so I'll happily submit to experience.

I've been building wheels since the seventies, including a few years
working as a mechanic.

[Rob Morley]

On Sun, 19 Jun 2022 18:30:42 -0400
Paul <nos...@needed.invalid> wrote:

> I would not expect to find such an item at a regular
> bicycle shop. It might have to be special-ordered.
>

Look no further than Amazon; Weldtite and Cyclo are both long-
established brands that offer chromoly axles at a reasonable
price.

> A spoke tension measuring device (something every bike owner
> should have), helps you get and keep things in tune.
> When spokes unscrew themselves, the tension gauge
> can catch that, if you do regular scans.

There's something wrong with the build if spokes are loosening.

> If you
> allow spokes to be tuned to different strain,
> they'll snap on you. i used to snap half a dozen
> spokes a year, until I figured this out. Now,
> the yearly toll is zero.

I've never felt the need for one, and didn't get any wheels back for
going out of true or breaking spokes.

[Rob Morley]

On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 04:40:32 -0700 (PDT)
David Paste <paste...@gmail.com> wrote:

> There is one particular video I've seen of a Scottish trick bike
> rider who builds his own wheels up and his secret trick is to stand
> on the spoke after the initial tightening to just stretch them a
> little bit. He is quite a slight fellow though; I don't know if that

> would be wise for me to attempt!
>
I just lay the wheel on a carpeted floor and press with my hands and a
good bit of weight against the rim at about the four and eight o'clock
positions, turn a little and repeat until you've done the full circle.
Then flip to do the other side. You can expect some creaks and pings
doing this as the spokes bed in and the nipples un-torque a little.
Then back to the truing stand for a touch up. Repeat until there's no
more noise and the rim stays true. Be wary of applying too much
pressure on a lightweight or heavily dished wheel, but a strong 26 inch
MTB wheel can take a lot of force to work out the creaks.

[jkn]

It's been a while since I made some wheels, it's possible that
something has changed in the quality of some parts. My
two-pennyworth would be:

- get a *proper* spoke key, as other have mentioned
- lightly lubricate the nipples and the spokes before assembly.
I can't recall what I used to use; probably a tiny amount of
white lithium grease?

[jkn]

Pretty much exactly what I used to do. It's a bit nerve-wracking at first,
but quite satisfying thereafter.

FWIW getting the rim true 'left to right' - ie centred within the brake rims -
is easy IME; it's getting that and the wheel true 'in the round' that takes
a bit more work. Just allow yourself some time, take it calmly,
and you'll be fine.