Bathroom extractor fan wiring
Karen Taylor
to make sure the electrical installation of it follows the wiring
regs. Now the fan itself is rated at 3A. I want to power it off the
5A lighting circuit in my loft (much easier than tapping off the ring
main). I was planning on having a pull-cord switch in the bathroom to
switch it on/off (the fan is not one of these timer models hence won't
be wiring it to the light switch).
I will then connect the 5A loop, feed to the fan, and switch wires in
a junction box (situated in the loft, as is the fan itself) and wired
as you would a ceiling rose - no probs there.
Now I'm confused, do I need to put a FCU with an isolator switch
between the 5A loop and the junction box, or is it sufficient to let
the pull cord switch isolate the fan? If I do need an FCU & isolator
switch, can this go in the loft, or must it be outside the bathroom
but accesible from outside the bathroom?
Thanks,
Karen.
Andrew Gabriel
ka...@irietoad.freeserve.co.uk (Karen Taylor) writes:
>
> Now I'm confused, do I need to put a FCU with an isolator switch
> between the 5A loop and the junction box, or is it sufficient to let
> the pull cord switch isolate the fan?
If the pull-cord switches both poles and includes a mechanical
indication of ON/OFF (electric shower ones should meet this criteria),
then that alone is OK. Otherwise you need a separate isolating switch.
> If I do need an FCU & isolator
> switch, can this go in the loft, or must it be outside the bathroom
> but accesible from outside the bathroom?
It should go in the bathroom, but out of reach of anyone using a
bath or shower (and preferably out of reach of anyone using the room,
except when repairing the fan). If it doesn't go in the bathroom, then
strictly it should be of a type which can be locked off with a key/padlock,
as it can't be under the constant control/supervision of someone working
on the fan.
--
Andrew Gabriel
John Armstrong
Gabriel) wrote:
Is this correct where all electrical parts are in the loft and
inacessible from the bathroom ? I am thinking of the type mounted
inline in a duct (Karen did say the fan itself was in the loft). I
would have thought the isolator should then be in the loft, but I'm
not an electrician.
--
John
Andrew Gabriel
John Armstrong <jo...@ggrove.swinternet.co.uk> writes:
> On 30 Jul 2001 16:54:22 GMT, and...@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew
> Gabriel) wrote:
>
>>In article <b8dcc39d.01073...@posting.google.com>,
>> ka...@irietoad.freeserve.co.uk (Karen Taylor) writes:
>>>
>>> If I do need an FCU & isolator
>>> switch, can this go in the loft, or must it be outside the bathroom
>>> but accesible from outside the bathroom?
>>
>>It should go in the bathroom, but out of reach of anyone using a
>>bath or shower (and preferably out of reach of anyone using the room,
>>except when repairing the fan). If it doesn't go in the bathroom, then
>>strictly it should be of a type which can be locked off with a key/padlock,
>>as it can't be under the constant control/supervision of someone working
>>on the fan.
>
> Is this correct where all electrical parts are in the loft and
> inacessible from the bathroom ?
No. In that case you must have a separate isolating switch (regardless
of the properties of the pull-cord switch) and put the isolating switch
in the loft near the fan.
> I am thinking of the type mounted
> inline in a duct (Karen did say the fan itself was in the loft).
Sorry, missed that bit. Thanks for pointing it out.
--
Andrew Gabriel
Tim Hardisty
Gabriel) wrote:
>In article <17abmtoskbh6njgoo...@4ax.com>,
> John Armstrong <jo...@ggrove.swinternet.co.uk> writes:
>> On 30 Jul 2001 16:54:22 GMT, and...@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew
>> Gabriel) wrote:
>>
>>>In article <b8dcc39d.01073...@posting.google.com>,
>>> ka...@irietoad.freeserve.co.uk (Karen Taylor) writes:
>>>>
>>>> If I do need an FCU & isolator
>>>> switch, can this go in the loft, or must it be outside the bathroom
>>>> but accesible from outside the bathroom?
>>>
>>>It should go in the bathroom, but out of reach of anyone using a
>>>bath or shower (and preferably out of reach of anyone using the room,
>>>except when repairing the fan). If it doesn't go in the bathroom, then
>>>strictly it should be of a type which can be locked off with a key/padlock,
>>>as it can't be under the constant control/supervision of someone working
>>>on the fan.
>>
>> Is this correct where all electrical parts are in the loft and
>> inacessible from the bathroom ?
>
>No. In that case you must have a separate isolating switch (regardless
>of the properties of the pull-cord switch) and put the isolating switch
>in the loft near the fan.
>
So, if it's a loft-located fan, with a built in timer, there's a
switched live from the light switch, and a permanent live. What sort
of isolation switch is then required? There's two live feeds to worry
about!
Tim Hardisty.
Remove HAT before replying
Andrew Gabriel
tim...@hardisty.co.uk (Tim Hardisty) writes:
>
> So, if it's a loft-located fan, with a built in timer, there's a
It wasn't, but if it had been...
> switched live from the light switch, and a permanent live. What sort
> of isolation switch is then required? There's two live feeds to worry
> about!
... you can buy special 3-pole fan isolating switches.
They usually look like a rocker switch with an extra wide rocker,
and sometimes have a fan embossed on them. MK ones have tiny holes in
the lower ends of the protruding rocker to allow a lock-off padlock
to be fitted.
--
Andrew Gabriel
Karen Taylor
Thanks, guys. Does this mean if I put the isolating switch in the
loft near the fan, that I can use a normal single-pole pull switch (as
you'd use for a light switch in the bathroom)? Or is it best to have
the double-pole pull switch (as you'd use for a shower), to be on the
safe side?
Cheers,
Karen.
Andrew Gabriel
ka...@irietoad.freeserve.co.uk (Karen Taylor) writes:
>
> Thanks, guys. Does this mean if I put the isolating switch in the
> loft near the fan, that I can use a normal single-pole pull switch (as
> you'd use for a light switch in the bathroom)? Or is it best to have
> the double-pole pull switch (as you'd use for a shower), to be on the
> safe side?
Single pole lightswitch is fine.
Only slight drawback is that you can't tell if it's on or off,
so if the fan dies, you can't be sure to leave it switched off
without going up into the loft and operating the isolating
switch.
--
Andrew Gabriel
Tim Hardisty
Gabriel) wrote:
>In article <3b6664ab...@news.cis.dfn.de>,
> tim...@hardisty.co.uk (Tim Hardisty) writes:
>>
>> So, if it's a loft-located fan, with a built in timer, there's a
>
>It wasn't, but if it had been...
Ok - so I had an ulterior motive, as I have such a fan. Sorry :-)
>> switched live from the light switch, and a permanent live. What sort
>> of isolation switch is then required? There's two live feeds to worry
>> about!
>
>... you can buy special 3-pole fan isolating switches.
>They usually look like a rocker switch with an extra wide rocker,
Ah! yes, I know what you mean.
I confess to having wired my fan directly into the lighting circuit
without an isolator. I'll make amends now I know what to use.
If I can again divert Karen's thread (hoping Andrew's still following
it) - do transformers for loft-located LV lighting transformers need
isolating switches/FCUs too, or can they be wired directly in to the
lighting circuits?
(Perhaps if I can understand the underlying reasons for FCU's and/or
isolators, as per regs, I can answer my own questions?)
Steve Gontarek
wrote:
<snip>
>
>I confess to having wired my fan directly into the lighting circuit
>without an isolator. I'll make amends now I know what to use.
>
You might find that more common than you think (legal or not.....). I
know that the fan put inmy Mother's bathroom was done just that way by
an electrician on a 'homer'. I was also planning to do it that way in
our bathroom.
However why does the ceiling fan need a isolater ? What is the purpose
? After all in most cases these fans draw less (e.g. 15 or 20W) than
the actual light bulb in the bathroom - so following the logic of an
isolater on the fan, why not also put it on the light ? I'm not trying
cause an arguament, just confused why the above is neccesary.
Steve
Mungo Henning (probably)
Errr, probably coming into this thread a touch late, is there a real
need
to fit an isolator switch at all? Any work on the fan can be safely done
by
switching off the appropriate MCB, so what's the "big deal" (apart from
working
on the fan at night, etcetera)?
I've considered adding a second pull switch in my toilet which triggers
the fan.
Thus, if the pull switch is set contacts-closed, then the fan trips into
life
as the toilet light is switched on. Alternatively, the switch could be
set in the
contacts-open mode so that the fan is effectively absent (cutting down
on noise for
those loo visits that don't need extraction, if you get my
drift^h^h^h^h^h waft :-)
The only down-side to this arrangement would be some twit believing that
the additional
switch was some unusal form of isolator, but what's a bit of Darwinism
amongst DIYers
(that's a joke, for those that don't know me :-)
Now all I need to do is to train the 9-year-old the particular
circumstances which
absolutely MUST be followed by extraction!
Opinions?
Mungo
--
Mungo Henning - it's a daft name but it goes with the face...
(Freelance I.T. Training Consultant, covering "C", "C++",
"Unix" and "Oracle" as well as other areas). http://mungoh.co.uk/
Andy Hall
"Mungo Henning (probably)" <mungo....@tesco.net> wrote in message
news:3B670F3D...@tesco.net...
> Now all I need to do is to train the 9-year-old the particular
> circumstances which
> absolutely MUST be followed by extraction!
>
> Opinions?
>
> Mungo
>
> --
> Mungo Henning - it's a daft name but it goes with the face...
> (Freelance I.T. Training Consultant, covering "C", "C++",
> "Unix" and "Oracle" as well as other areas). http://mungoh.co.uk/
I wouldn't even try it. This is in the same class as getting them to put
the cap on the toothpaste,
turn the taps off, replace the loo roll,...... need I go on?? Don't think
it gets better as they get older either.
Whoever arranged that the common practice with loo fans was to have them
come on with the light and run on a timer wasn't stupid, he just had
teenagers. With teenagers you have the added benefit that it rarely
occurs to them that the day will come when they'll know as little as their
parents.
.andy
BTW. In reading your signature you may be interested to hear of a brand new
software tool available in Silicon Valley. It converts Powerpoint to C++.
;-)
Ian...@field-house.com
Gabriel) wrote:
To get around this problem (my fan has a timer) I decided to use pull
cord switch with neon.
Now... the problem is.... the neon in the ceiling switch glimmers
constantly.
There is a (IMHO totally pointless) neon actually on the panel of the
fan, but this is illuminated all the time the fan is running , that is
not only when the switched power is to the fan. VentAxia obviously
like to think their motors are quieter than they are.
Anyone know what is going on here? Should I worry?
TIA
Ian