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Smart meter installed by EDF - a largely pointless change
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Clive Page
May 3, 2023, 7:32:26 AM5/3/23
to
I'd been resisting smart meters for some time, but after EDF told us that our existing meters were past their use-by date and potentially dangerous, I gave in and we had them replaced by "smart" meters on Tuesday. They gave a slot of 8am to noon with no indication of a more exact time which is always annoying. In fact the fitter phoned around 7:30 and actually arrived at 7:55.
The electricity meter was no problem and power was on again by 8:30. But he claimed the gas meter had an old fitting (lead pipe he said, I was doubtful) so he had to consult experts and eventually do some cutting. Then he soldered a new pipe to the old one to allow the new meter to be connected. This all took another 90 minutes, much longer than the standard figure.
As far as the new meters themselves are concerned, they are only marginally worse than the old ones in ease of reading. You have to push and hold a button on the gas meter, and push and scroll down on the display of the electricity meter to get the numbers you want. More modern means worse, as usual.
Then there is the "free" in-house display unit. Ours is a Trio II TouchButton made in China but marketed by Green Energy Options Ltd in Cambridgeshire. Anyone else had the misfortune to be given one of these? It was initially powered by 3 AAA batteries, but these failed before the end of the day, and the instructions book that I managed to download says that it's not wise to run on batters long-term. One can see why. There was a mains charger included, but this means the unit isn't really very portable: as soon as it's moved from one power point to another it takes several minutes to get connected and start working again. There is an "optional" wifi module but, EDF no doubt on cost grounds, chose not to include that.
The main display purports to show current electricity and gas usage. For electricity it actually does this once in a while, e.g. showing our typical standby load of ~200 W, but mostly it shows 0. I'm not sure why, as it seems to get its info updated every 2 minutes. When we had a dishwasher, washing machine or kettle on it did show a few kilowatts briefly. Surprise, surprise, but then went back to zero (not ~200 W soon after).
The gas display is permanently zero, but it with only half-a-dozen button pushes it can show the accumulated gas consumption for the day, so it must be getting data somehow. It looks from the instructions as if it may get gas info only every 30 minutes.
The gas meter obviously has a battery in it but the fitter didn't know anything about this or who was responsible for noticing and replacing it when, inevitably, it runs down.
The indoor display might in theory be useful if it could show the current meter readings: for electricity it can do that in whole kWh which is good enough, for gas it shows just the whole number of cubic meters current 9, while the real gas meter shows 9.019. Since this has to be multiplied by around 11.19 to get kWh, only having an integer value on the indoor display is pretty useless. It can also show accumulated consumption over days/weeks, but currently this is completely wrong, showing a large number of cubic metres consumed on Monday, i.e. before the meter was installed.
All in all I find the in-house display unit to be just about useless. It's such a pity that such huge amounts of tax-payers money has been spent on this pointless exercise. It will, of course, save the energy companies a bit of money in the long term if they are able get meter readings done remotely. But for the consumer it's hard to see any positive aspects at all.
--
Clive Page
The electricity meter was no problem and power was on again by 8:30. But he claimed the gas meter had an old fitting (lead pipe he said, I was doubtful) so he had to consult experts and eventually do some cutting. Then he soldered a new pipe to the old one to allow the new meter to be connected. This all took another 90 minutes, much longer than the standard figure.
As far as the new meters themselves are concerned, they are only marginally worse than the old ones in ease of reading. You have to push and hold a button on the gas meter, and push and scroll down on the display of the electricity meter to get the numbers you want. More modern means worse, as usual.
Then there is the "free" in-house display unit. Ours is a Trio II TouchButton made in China but marketed by Green Energy Options Ltd in Cambridgeshire. Anyone else had the misfortune to be given one of these? It was initially powered by 3 AAA batteries, but these failed before the end of the day, and the instructions book that I managed to download says that it's not wise to run on batters long-term. One can see why. There was a mains charger included, but this means the unit isn't really very portable: as soon as it's moved from one power point to another it takes several minutes to get connected and start working again. There is an "optional" wifi module but, EDF no doubt on cost grounds, chose not to include that.
The main display purports to show current electricity and gas usage. For electricity it actually does this once in a while, e.g. showing our typical standby load of ~200 W, but mostly it shows 0. I'm not sure why, as it seems to get its info updated every 2 minutes. When we had a dishwasher, washing machine or kettle on it did show a few kilowatts briefly. Surprise, surprise, but then went back to zero (not ~200 W soon after).
The gas display is permanently zero, but it with only half-a-dozen button pushes it can show the accumulated gas consumption for the day, so it must be getting data somehow. It looks from the instructions as if it may get gas info only every 30 minutes.
The gas meter obviously has a battery in it but the fitter didn't know anything about this or who was responsible for noticing and replacing it when, inevitably, it runs down.
The indoor display might in theory be useful if it could show the current meter readings: for electricity it can do that in whole kWh which is good enough, for gas it shows just the whole number of cubic meters current 9, while the real gas meter shows 9.019. Since this has to be multiplied by around 11.19 to get kWh, only having an integer value on the indoor display is pretty useless. It can also show accumulated consumption over days/weeks, but currently this is completely wrong, showing a large number of cubic metres consumed on Monday, i.e. before the meter was installed.
All in all I find the in-house display unit to be just about useless. It's such a pity that such huge amounts of tax-payers money has been spent on this pointless exercise. It will, of course, save the energy companies a bit of money in the long term if they are able get meter readings done remotely. But for the consumer it's hard to see any positive aspects at all.
--
Clive Page
Andy Burns
May 3, 2023, 7:57:29 AM5/3/23
to
Clive Page wrote:
> Then there is the "free" in-house display unit. Ours is a Trio II
> TouchButton made in China but marketed by Green Energy Options Ltd in
> Cambridgeshire. Anyone else had the misfortune to be given one of
> these? It was initially powered by 3 AAA batteries, but these failed
> before the end of the day, and the instructions book that I managed to
> download says that it's not wise to run on batters long-term. One can
> see why. There was a mains charger included, but this means the unit
> isn't really very portable: as soon as it's moved from one power point
> to another it takes several minutes to get connected and start working
> again.
my IHD can only use mains, no batteries, it re-connects quite quickly,
> Then there is the "free" in-house display unit. Ours is a Trio II
> TouchButton made in China but marketed by Green Energy Options Ltd in
> Cambridgeshire. Anyone else had the misfortune to be given one of
> these? It was initially powered by 3 AAA batteries, but these failed
> before the end of the day, and the instructions book that I managed to
> download says that it's not wise to run on batters long-term. One can
> see why. There was a mains charger included, but this means the unit
> isn't really very portable: as soon as it's moved from one power point
> to another it takes several minutes to get connected and start working
> again.
but takes some time to receive the whole 12 month history data.
> The main display purports to show current electricity and gas usage.
> For electricity it actually does this once in a while, e.g. showing our
> typical standby load of ~200 W, but mostly it shows 0. I'm not sure
> why, as it seems to get its info updated every 2 minutes.
> The gas display is permanently zero, but it with only half-a-dozen
> button pushes it can show the accumulated gas consumption for the day,
> so it must be getting data somehow. It looks from the instructions as
> if it may get gas info only every 30 minutes.
yes, mine is every 30 minutes, due to the gas meter being battery powered.
> button pushes it can show the accumulated gas consumption for the day,
> so it must be getting data somehow. It looks from the instructions as
> if it may get gas info only every 30 minutes.
> The gas meter obviously has a battery in it but the fitter didn't know
> anything about this or who was responsible for noticing and replacing it
> when, inevitably, it runs down.
Lithium thionyl chloride)
> The indoor display might in theory be useful if it could show the
> current meter readings: for electricity it can do that in whole kWh
> which is good enough, for gas it shows just the whole number of cubic
> meters
7 days, 28 days, 12 months) it uses kWh for both fuels
Robin
May 3, 2023, 9:12:29 AM5/3/23
to
On 03/05/2023 12:30, Clive Page wrote:
>
> All in all I find the in-house display unit to be just about useless.
> It's such a pity that such huge amounts of tax-payers money has been
> spent on this pointless exercise. It will, of course, save the energy
> companies a bit of money in the long term if they are able get meter
> readings done remotely. But for the consumer it's hard to see any
> positive aspects at all.
>
You've been given a lemon. The IHDs with our first and second meters
>
> All in all I find the in-house display unit to be just about useless.
> It's such a pity that such huge amounts of tax-payers money has been
> spent on this pointless exercise. It will, of course, save the energy
> companies a bit of money in the long term if they are able get meter
> readings done remotely. But for the consumer it's hard to see any
> positive aspects at all.
>
worked fine. Current (with SEMTS2) gives elec use every 20 secs, gas
every 30 mins, meter readings to 3 decimal places, cumulative for day,
week to date, month to date, etc. Was never going to generate the
savings Ed Davey promised but useful for those who can't read meters or
do sums.
--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid
SteveW
May 3, 2023, 11:43:19 AM5/3/23
to
On 03/05/2023 12:30, Clive Page wrote:
> The gas display is permanently zero, but it with only half-a-dozen
> button pushes it can show the accumulated gas consumption for the day,
> so it must be getting data somehow. It looks from the instructions as
> if it may get gas info only every 30 minutes.
the meter).
> The gas meter obviously has a battery in it but the fitter didn't know
> anything about this or who was responsible for noticing and replacing it
> when, inevitably, it runs down.
problem to renew it.
> The indoor display might in theory be useful if it could show the
> current meter readings: for electricity it can do that in whole kWh
> which is good enough, for gas it shows just the whole number of cubic
> meters current 9, while the real gas meter shows 9.019. Since this has
> to be multiplied by around 11.19 to get kWh, only having an integer
> value on the indoor display is pretty useless.
over that half hour though.
> It can also show
> accumulated consumption over days/weeks, but currently this is
> completely wrong, showing a large number of cubic metres consumed on
> Monday, i.e. before the meter was installed.
> All in all I find the in-house display unit to be just about useless.
> It's such a pity that such huge amounts of tax-payers money has been
> spent on this pointless exercise. It will, of course, save the energy
> companies a bit of money in the long term if they are able get meter
> readings done remotely. But for the consumer it's hard to see any
> positive aspects at all.
combination for our model, that allowed me to reset it. Once I did that,
everything settled down.
One problem is that having now switched supplier, we are 6 weeks in and
the meters have not yet shifted over to the new supplier, so I have to
keep giving them manual readings and the display unit has very slightly
wrong prices for the tariffs.
Brian Gaff
May 4, 2023, 6:30:53 AM5/4/23
to
No I have no gas, but the firs meter failed in economy 7 at the first
Christmas and had to be totally replaced . However the in home display is a
talking one and you can get meter readings there or on the EDF App. I have
quarterly bills on real readings and hence do not need to get a sighted
person to read it. I can check current usage, though the inbuilt voice is a
little annoyingly posh.
Brian
--
--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
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Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Clive Page" <use...@page2.eu> wrote in message
news:kbeuu7...@mid.individual.net...
Christmas and had to be totally replaced . However the in home display is a
talking one and you can get meter readings there or on the EDF App. I have
quarterly bills on real readings and hence do not need to get a sighted
person to read it. I can check current usage, though the inbuilt voice is a
little annoyingly posh.
Brian
--
--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Clive Page" <use...@page2.eu> wrote in message
news:kbeuu7...@mid.individual.net...
Mark Carver
May 4, 2023, 9:24:32 AM5/4/23
to
On 03/05/2023 16:43, SteveW wrote:
>
> Ours shows gas, in kW, to 2 decimal places. I assume that it is
> averaged over that half hour though.
That's interesting because I thought the kWh figure for gas, takes into
>
> Ours shows gas, in kW, to 2 decimal places. I assume that it is
> averaged over that half hour though.
account the calorific value, which varies according to ambient
temperature, and your energy supplier has to resort to Ofgen tables
(compiled by the Met Office ?) to calculate daily 'real' kWh figures for
your billing ? The only 'spot' figures available for gas are m^3 values ?
SteveW
May 4, 2023, 10:27:03 AM5/4/23
to
are supposed to stay within (38 to 41 MJ/m³); it might be an estimate
based on past data and most recent data; it might be calculated daily by
the company and sent out like the price per kWh is. I'm sure there are
more options - but I'm guessing that the first option is most likely.
Andy Burns
May 4, 2023, 10:31:41 AM5/4/23
to
and the formula to convert to kWh as
GAS UNITS * CALORIFIC VALUE * VOLUMETRIC CORRECTION FACTOR ÷ 3.6
I get six-monthly bills, the three most recent have shown calorific
values of 39.4 39.6 and 39.2, but all showed the same 1.02264 for
volumetric correction
I presume the IHD uses some "close enough for jazz" constants for
display purposes?
Mark Carver
May 4, 2023, 3:12:57 PM5/4/23
to
gareth evans
May 4, 2023, 3:18:07 PM5/4/23
to
On 04/05/2023 20:12, Mark Carver wrote:
> Sort of like using 22/7 for Pi ? :-)
If only I could remember the series expansion
> Sort of like using 22/7 for Pi ? :-)
for the arctan() function then I could get an
exact value for PI down to however many
significant digits I required ...
4*arctan(1)
SteveW
May 4, 2023, 4:20:24 PM5/4/23
to
On 04/05/2023 20:12, Mark Carver wrote:
accurate for most purposes (to 6 decimal places).
charles
May 4, 2023, 4:45:17 PM5/4/23
to
In article <u31422$1vcgm$1...@dont-email.me>,
My memory is of 3.14159. You didn't even that accuracy for a slide rule.
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Paul
May 4, 2023, 7:00:36 PM5/4/23
to
these people tried to.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Pi_Bill
Paul
gareth evans
May 4, 2023, 8:54:47 PM5/4/23
to
May I have a large container of coffee?
gareth evans
May 4, 2023, 9:00:51 PM5/4/23
to
On 04/05/2023 23:59, Paul wrote:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Pi_Bill
... which brings us back to that religion is make-believe
because a fact or concept that is true will stand on its
own but a falseness can only be propagated through
violence or through legislation.
ie, that PI is 3.14159265358979323846 (approx off the top of my head)
is true and stands on its own whereas an attmpt to define it falsely
as 3 could only be forced through by legislation
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Pi_Bill
... which brings us back to that religion is make-believe
because a fact or concept that is true will stand on its
own but a falseness can only be propagated through
violence or through legislation.
ie, that PI is 3.14159265358979323846 (approx off the top of my head)
is true and stands on its own whereas an attmpt to define it falsely
as 3 could only be forced through by legislation
Mark Carver
May 5, 2023, 2:54:39 AM5/5/23
to
charles
May 5, 2023, 4:30:18 AM5/5/23
to
In article <kbjnha...@mid.individual.net>,
4.43 - the rest I can't remember (ends in 525) - it was nearly 28 years
since I retired
since I retired
Clive Page
May 5, 2023, 4:59:00 AM5/5/23
to
On 05/05/2023 09:33, Chris Hogg wrote:
> letters urging me to get a smart meter installed.
>
I hadn't thought of that. Only 3 days and none of those, so this flow might have stopped. But I've already had 2 emails saying "now you've got a smart meter, here's how to take advantage of it" or similar. I'm resigned to having lots more of these.
--
Clive Page
> On Wed, 3 May 2023 12:30:15 +0100, Clive Page <use...@page2.eu> wrote:
>
>> I'd been resisting smart meters for some time, but after EDF told us that our existing meters were past their use-by date and potentially dangerous, I gave in and we had them replaced by "smart" meters on Tuesday. They gave a slot of 8am to noon with no indication of a more exact time which is always annoying. In fact the fitter phoned around 7:30 and actually arrived at 7:55.
>
> The *only* benefit to me is that it stopped the endless emails and
>
>> I'd been resisting smart meters for some time, but after EDF told us that our existing meters were past their use-by date and potentially dangerous, I gave in and we had them replaced by "smart" meters on Tuesday. They gave a slot of 8am to noon with no indication of a more exact time which is always annoying. In fact the fitter phoned around 7:30 and actually arrived at 7:55.
>
> letters urging me to get a smart meter installed.
>
I hadn't thought of that. Only 3 days and none of those, so this flow might have stopped. But I've already had 2 emails saying "now you've got a smart meter, here's how to take advantage of it" or similar. I'm resigned to having lots more of these.
--
Clive Page
SteveW
May 5, 2023, 5:25:10 AM5/5/23
to
legislate to switch to using base Pi ... unfortunately, just about
everything else then becomes irrational.
Jeff Layman
May 5, 2023, 6:23:19 AM5/5/23
to
On 05/05/2023 09:33, Chris Hogg wrote:
> On Wed, 3 May 2023 12:30:15 +0100, Clive Page <use...@page2.eu> wrote:
>
> On Wed, 3 May 2023 12:30:15 +0100, Clive Page <use...@page2.eu> wrote:
>
>> I'd been resisting smart meters for some time, but after EDF told us that our existing meters were past their use-by date and potentially dangerous, I gave in and we had them replaced by "smart" meters on Tuesday. They gave a slot of 8am to noon with no indication of a more exact time which is always annoying. In fact the fitter phoned around 7:30 and actually arrived at 7:55.
>
>
> The *only* benefit to me is that it stopped the endless emails and
> letters urging me to get a smart meter installed.
Did they give you any options on how you choose to use it? Different
> letters urging me to get a smart meter installed.
tariffs? Monthly/quarterly readings? DD/non-DD payments?
--
Jeff
Max Demian
May 5, 2023, 6:38:16 AM5/5/23
to
On 04/05/2023 15:31, Andy Burns wrote:
bills. They were obviously afraid to express it as an actual algebraic
formula and expressed in a form that few could understand. Now they
don't attempt to explain how they convert from cubic metres to kWH so we
have to trust them.
--
Max Demian
Max Demian
May 5, 2023, 6:41:59 AM5/5/23
to
On 04/05/2023 21:20, SteveW wrote:
integers.
--
Max Demian
The Other John
May 5, 2023, 10:39:54 AM5/5/23
to
On Fri, 05 May 2023 08:46:02 +0100, charles wrote:
> 4.43 - the rest I can't remember (ends in 525) - it was nearly 28 years
> since I retired
4.43361875 and NTSC is 3.5979545 IIRC. Retired 18 years.
> 4.43 - the rest I can't remember (ends in 525) - it was nearly 28 years
> since I retired
--
TOJ.
Jim Jackson
May 5, 2023, 12:05:21 PM5/5/23
to
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcendental_number
The Natural Philosopher
May 7, 2023, 8:09:44 AM5/7/23
to
--
Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.
Tim Streater
May 7, 2023, 11:44:38 AM5/7/23
to
On 05 May 2023 at 10:23:28 BST, "SteveW" <st...@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
> On 05/05/2023 02:00, gareth evans wrote:
>> On 04/05/2023 23:59, Paul wrote:
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Pi_Bill
>>
>>
>> ... which brings us back to that religion is make-believe
>> because a fact or concept that is true will stand on its
>> own but a falseness can only be propagated through
>> violence or through legislation.
>>
>> ie, that PI is 3.14159265358979323846 (approx off the top of my head)
>> is true and stands on its own whereas an attmpt to define it falsely
>> as 3 could only be forced through by legislation
The Indiana State legislature has already tried this.
> On 05/05/2023 02:00, gareth evans wrote:
>> On 04/05/2023 23:59, Paul wrote:
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Pi_Bill
>>
>>
>> ... which brings us back to that religion is make-believe
>> because a fact or concept that is true will stand on its
>> own but a falseness can only be propagated through
>> violence or through legislation.
>>
>> ie, that PI is 3.14159265358979323846 (approx off the top of my head)
>> is true and stands on its own whereas an attmpt to define it falsely
>> as 3 could only be forced through by legislation
-
Labour - a bunch of rich people convincing poor people to vote for rich people
by telling poor people that "other" rich people are the reason they are poor.
Peter Thompson
Rod Speed
May 7, 2023, 2:51:28 PM5/7/23
to
On Mon, 08 May 2023 01:44:34 +1000, Tim Streater <t...@streater.me.uk>
wrote:
Mindless bullshit. Wilson and Corbyn were never rich people.
wrote:
Peeler
May 7, 2023, 3:46:25 PM5/7/23
to
On Mon, 08 May 2023 04:51:18 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:
<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>
--
JimK addressing senile Rodent Speed:
"I really feel the quality of your trolling has dropped in the last few
months..."
MID: <n8idndHg5972A2DD...@brightview.co.uk>
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:
<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>
--
JimK addressing senile Rodent Speed:
"I really feel the quality of your trolling has dropped in the last few
months..."
MID: <n8idndHg5972A2DD...@brightview.co.uk>
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