Sealant Guns -Anyone got one of these?

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Roger Mills

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Jan 20, 2007, 10:45:25 AM1/20/07
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http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?id=27679#

How does it hold the cartridge without having anything at the front end?
Does it actually work?

I have a so-called heavy duty cartridge gun like this
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?id=86771&ts=07769 which comes
apart at the threads if a tube of (say) gripfill is a bit stiff - so I
wonder how this other type works at all!
--
Cheers,
Roger
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Dave Baker

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Jan 20, 2007, 11:06:12 AM1/20/07
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"Roger Mills" <watt....@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:51ero6F...@mid.individual.net...

> http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?id=27679#
>
> How does it hold the cartridge without having anything at the front end?
> Does it actually work?

If you look at it again you'll see an annular recess and a locking lever on
the front end. The back end of the tube itself fits into that and then
clamps into place so no need for a skeleton holder for the front end of the
tube. The bung is an airtight seal rather than just a piston so it can
reverse action and pull the sealant back into the tube.
--
"I found this stone in the park yesterday. It's been worn to a perfect
sphere by the elements and dimpled by time."
"Harry, that's a golfball!" (3rd Rock From The Sun)


Sparks

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Jan 20, 2007, 11:53:37 AM1/20/07
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Dave Baker wrote:
> "Roger Mills" <watt....@googlemail.com> wrote in message
> news:51ero6F...@mid.individual.net...
>> http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?id=27679#
>>
>> How does it hold the cartridge without having anything at the front
>> end? Does it actually work?
>
> If you look at it again you'll see an annular recess and a locking
> lever on the front end. The back end of the tube itself fits into
> that and then clamps into place so no need for a skeleton holder for
> the front end of the tube. The bung is an airtight seal rather than
> just a piston so it can reverse action and pull the sealant back into
> the tube.

That's all well and good, but, if you remove a half used tube from this gun,
won't this result in it sucking in loads of air!?

Sparks...


Dave Baker

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Jan 20, 2007, 11:58:51 AM1/20/07
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"Sparks" <postm...@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
news:45b2488f$0$757$bed6...@news.gradwell.net...

Why?


Sparks

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Jan 20, 2007, 12:17:34 PM1/20/07
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As you said

"The bung is an airtight seal rather than just a piston so it can reverse
action and pull the sealant back into the tube."

So if you pull the bung out, as it is an air-tight seal, won't it pull air
into the tube?

Sparks...


Dave Baker

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Jan 20, 2007, 1:11:51 PM1/20/07
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"Sparks" <postm...@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
news:45b24e2c$0$765$bed6...@news.gradwell.net...

> >> That's all well and good, but, if you remove a half used tube from
> >> this gun, won't this result in it sucking in loads of air!?
> >>
> >> Sparks...
> >
> > Why?
>
> As you said
>
> "The bung is an airtight seal rather than just a piston so it can reverse
> action and pull the sealant back into the tube."
>
> So if you pull the bung out, as it is an air-tight seal, won't it pull air
> into the tube?
>
> Sparks...

I'm still not really sure what you're trying to say. The back end of the
tube has its own airtight(ish) cap anyway regardless of what type of gun you
use. If that wasn't there all the sealant would run out on to the shelf in
the shop!

At the front end of the tube and nozzle of course you'll pull air back in
but that's the point. To empty the nozzle so you can put a sealed cap back
on and not have a nozzle full of rock hard sealant next time you use the
tube. I can't see me paying 15 squids for the privilege but I've spent
plenty of time firkling around in tubes of silicone with little screwdrivers
trying to clear the nozzle and front end of the tube of the stuff that's
already set. Not an issue if you use a lot of the stuff and on a regular
basis but handy if a single tube lasts you for months.

Andy Hall

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Jan 20, 2007, 1:18:15 PM1/20/07
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On 2007-01-20 15:45:25 +0000, "Roger Mills" <watt....@googlemail.com> said:

> http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?id=27679#
>
> How does it hold the cartridge without having anything at the front
> end? Does it actually work?
>
> I have a so-called heavy duty cartridge gun like this
> http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?id=86771&ts=07769 which
> comes apart at the threads if a tube of (say) gripfill is a bit stiff -
> so I wonder how this other type works at all!

I looked at this at the SF trade counter, wasn't convinced and bought
the pneumatic one instead. That certainly works.


Sparks

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Jan 20, 2007, 1:34:46 PM1/20/07
to

Okay...

The tube holds (say) 500ml.

You use 300ml

When you pull the plunger out of the back, 300ml of air is pulled into the
gun via the nozzle.

With a normal gun this does not happen.

Is this going to cause the remaining (or part thereof) sealent to set in the
tube, now it has air mixed with it?

Sparks...

Roger Mills

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Jan 20, 2007, 2:58:52 PM1/20/07
to
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Andy Hall <an...@hall.nospam> wrote:

> On 2007-01-20 15:45:25 +0000, "Roger Mills"
> <watt....@googlemail.com> said:
>> http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?id=27679#
>>
>> How does it hold the cartridge without having anything at the front
>> end? Does it actually work?
>>
>

> I looked at this at the SF trade counter, wasn't convinced and bought
> the pneumatic one instead. That certainly works.


Is that the 40 quid one which needs a compressed air supply?

Dave Baker

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Jan 20, 2007, 4:16:15 PM1/20/07
to

"Sparks" <postm...@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
news:45b26044$0$760$bed6...@news.gradwell.net...

> Okay...
>
> The tube holds (say) 500ml.
>
> You use 300ml
>
> When you pull the plunger out of the back, 300ml of air is pulled into the
> gun via the nozzle.
>
> With a normal gun this does not happen.
>
> Is this going to cause the remaining (or part thereof) sealent to set in
the
> tube, now it has air mixed with it?

Ok, I see what you mean now. The solution is very simple. If you actually
want to remove a part used tube you put the cap back on or your finger over
the end before you remove the plunger.


Dave Liquorice

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Jan 20, 2007, 6:36:48 PM1/20/07
to
On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 21:16:15 -0000, Dave Baker wrote:

> If you actually want to remove a part used tube you put the cap back on
> or your finger over the end before you remove the plunger.

But how does air get into the gap between the cartridge piston and the
airtight piston on the gun to allow the air tight piston to be withdrawn
from the cartridge body?

--
Cheers new...@howhill.com
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

Andy Hall

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Jan 20, 2007, 8:36:34 PM1/20/07
to
On 2007-01-20 19:58:52 +0000, "Roger Mills" <watt....@googlemail.com> said:

> In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
> Andy Hall <an...@hall.nospam> wrote:
>
>> On 2007-01-20 15:45:25 +0000, "Roger Mills"
>> <watt....@googlemail.com> said:
>>> http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?id=27679#
>>>
>>> How does it hold the cartridge without having anything at the front
>>> end? Does it actually work?
>>>
>>
>> I looked at this at the SF trade counter, wasn't convinced and bought
>> the pneumatic one instead. That certainly works.
>
>
> Is that the 40 quid one which needs a compressed air supply?

Yep.

Brian Sharrock

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Jan 21, 2007, 2:48:51 AM1/21/07
to

"Roger Mills" <watt....@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:51fajdF...@mid.individual.net...

> In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
> Andy Hall <an...@hall.nospam> wrote:
>
>> On 2007-01-20 15:45:25 +0000, "Roger Mills"
>> <watt....@googlemail.com> said:
>>> http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?id=27679#
>>>
>>> How does it hold the cartridge without having anything at the front
>>> end? Does it actually work?
>>>
>>

Roger? I have such a device - bought off QVC - the tube is held by a
circular latching ring at its rear end (it's the shiny part of the
pistol-grip). Once the cartridge tube had been inserted it's very firmly
held. The trigger mechanism is easy to use -an its plunger pushes the goo
out the front just like the old-fashioned frame type- however the handle has
the facility to withdraw the plunger ; practically this means that one can
'suck-back' the goo. No more blobs of goo dripping and oozing out of the
nozzle . Effectively this means that one can swap different tubes easily
and having re-capped a partially used tube, it can be used again.
Apparently one can purchase 'sausages' of goo that can be inserted into an
empty cartridge - but I haven't performed this 'trick' yet.
This mechanism is easier to use than either of the frame-types I've used
before, is indifferent to the length of the cartridge used - [You realise
that cartridge come in different lengths? - and doesn't seem to pinch the
web, of skin, between thumb and fingers!
I heartily endorse it.

--

Brian

Weatherlawyer

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Jan 21, 2007, 3:18:43 AM1/21/07
to

Brian Sharrock wrote:
> "Roger Mills" <watt....@googlemail.com> wrote in message
> news:51fajdF...@mid.individual.net...
> > In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
> > Andy Hall <an...@hall.nospam> wrote:
> >
> >> On:45:25 +0000, "Roger Mills"

> >> <watt....@googlemail.com> said:
> >>> http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?id=27679#
> >>>
> >>> How does it hold the cartridge without having anything at the front
> >>> end? Does it actually work?
> >>>
> >>
>
> Roger? I have such a device - bought off QVC - the tube is held by a
> circular latching ring at its rear end (it's the shiny part of the
> pistol-grip). Once the cartridge tube had been inserted it's very firmly
> held. The trigger mechanism is easy to use -an its plunger pushes the goo
> out the front just like the old-fashioned frame type- however the handle has
> the facility to withdraw the plunger ; practically this means that one can
> 'suck-back' the goo. No more blobs of goo dripping and oozing out of the
> nozzle . Effectively this means that one can swap different tubes easily
> and having re-capped a partially used tube, it can be used again.
> Apparently one can purchase 'sausages' of goo that can be inserted into an
> empty cartridge - but I haven't performed this 'trick' yet.
> This mechanism is easier to use than either of the frame-types I've used
> before, is indifferent to the length of the cartridge used - [You realise
> that cartridge come in different lengths? - and doesn't seem to pinch the
> web, of skin, between thumb and fingers!
> I heartily endorse it.

Three obvious benefits struck me with the first post and, further down
the thread, the thickness of D-I-Y-ers that don't yet understand the
concept of lids, struck me.

1. The amount of space saved in a tool box.

2. Potential ease of use. I have an expensive in it's time gun that
throws the cartridge off-centre if you are not careful. That cost me 7
quid when 7 was worth 8.

3. The cartridge, once emptied can be filled with plaster for patches
and repairs; bonding for reaffixing loose plasterboards and a myriad
other uses including planting seeds once they are mixed with a paste
solution of some sort.

4 occurred to me writing 3:
Any messed runs or glitches can be unlaid to a certain extent. If not
salvageable, removable.

But of course it might be a Draw-Back.

Roger Mills

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Jan 21, 2007, 4:35:53 AM1/21/07
to
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Brian Sharrock <b.sha...@ntlworld.com> wrote:

>
> I have such a device - bought off QVC - the tube is held by a
> circular latching ring at its rear end (it's the shiny part of the
> pistol-grip). Once the cartridge tube had been inserted it's very
> firmly held. The trigger mechanism is easy to use -an its plunger
> pushes the goo out the front just like the old-fashioned frame type-
> however the handle has the facility to withdraw the plunger ;
> practically this means that one can 'suck-back' the goo. No more
> blobs of goo dripping and oozing out of the nozzle . Effectively
> this means that one can swap different tubes easily and having
> re-capped a partially used tube, it can be used again. Apparently one
> can purchase 'sausages' of goo that can be inserted into an empty
> cartridge - but I haven't performed this 'trick' yet. This mechanism is
> easier to use than either of the frame-types I've
> used before, is indifferent to the length of the cartridge used -
> [You realise that cartridge come in different lengths? - and doesn't
> seem to pinch the web, of skin, between thumb and fingers!
> I heartily endorse it.


Thanks for the detailed explanation Brian.

Like others, I'm still curious to know how you remove the plunger from a
part-used cartridge without sucking a load of air in through the nozzle.
Does the piston have a release valve or somesuch which can be opened when
you want to withdraw it without bringing the cartridge's own own piston with
it, or when you want to re-fit it to a part-used cartridge?

Roger Mills

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Jan 21, 2007, 4:38:55 AM1/21/07
to
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Weatherlawyer <Weathe...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
> But of course it might be a Draw-Back.


Very droll! But not such a big draw-back as an elephant's foreskin! <g>

meow...@care2.com

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Jan 21, 2007, 5:40:37 AM1/21/07
to
Roger Mills wrote:

> http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?id=27679#
>
> How does it hold the cartridge without having anything at the front end?
> Does it actually work?
>
> I have a so-called heavy duty cartridge gun like this
> http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?id=86771&ts=07769 which comes
> apart at the threads if a tube of (say) gripfill is a bit stiff - so I
> wonder how this other type works at all!

I've not tried the frameless one, but I can say if you've got any
significant amount of cartridge use to do, I can really recommened a
proper quality gun (£20-25 iirc). The control and ease of use is just
incomparable to the under £5 stuff. A decent gun weighs a lot more,
but still the 'difficulty' of using it is much less. I forget where I
bought it though, so bit hard to recmomende the specific model :(


NT

adder1969

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Jan 21, 2007, 7:50:04 AM1/21/07
to

Roger Mills wrote:
> >
> > I looked at this at the SF trade counter, wasn't convinced and bought
> > the pneumatic one instead. That certainly works.
>
>
> Is that the 40 quid one which needs a compressed air supply?
> --

I bought a new air cartridge gun from ebay for about a tenner and if
you're doing of lot of sealing or using stiff stuff then I can't
recommend them enough. Perfectly even application. Yes you need an
air supply.

Brian Sharrock

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Jan 21, 2007, 12:18:06 PM1/21/07
to

"Roger Mills" <watt....@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:51gqf9F...@mid.individual.net...

I have to say ~ "I don't work, nor receive any remuneration, from the
manufacturer or distributor!" :)
The principle seems to be thus ;-
A cartridge of goo ( caulk, filler, pva ... whatever) consists of a plastic
tube with a nozzle shape at the end. The tube is filled with the goo and
closed with a movable 'piston' end. This piston is a dish-shaped circle that
has backward pointing 'ends' ;

[_____]

goo in tube

\ /

nozzle

Now, AIUI, the normal 'frame' type of device merely applies force to the
piston cap and forces the goo forward. If pressure is relieved from the
plunger ~ that's it: the no more pressure being applied but the piston cap
still has a pressure and goo dribbles out of the nozzle.
The type that we've been referring to is somewhat different; it's plunger
end actually expands (two opposing dish 'washers' squeezing a rubber O-ring.
This plunger end expansion actually grips the sides of the cartridge's
'piston cap'; thus when one relieves the pressure on the plunger it is
possible to withdraw the cartridge's piston with the gripping plunger-end.
The 'gripping' is achieved by rotating the plunger - using the ninety-degree
bend part

[This is easy to demonstrate in two ticks, but seems to take yonks to
describe]
This rear-wards motion of the plunger cause a slight drop in pressure at the
nozzle end and the goo is 'sucked back' a millimetre or two.
Actually; this grip-the-piston's-sides facility is much more important than
the frameless aspect of the device.

The -normal- frame type only pushes the cartridge's piston cap and doesn't
_pull_ it rearwards.
When the cartridge is exhausted the piston cap is pushed right to the nozzle
end of the cartridge - and you've now got to dispose of it - paying
attention to the strictures about re-cycling ... but No! Not that ... !

As you've mentioned; when the cartridge's content has been exhausted with
the frameless type ; you use the 'withdrawing mechanism' all the way to the
end - plunger at full length: the piston will be seen to be gripped by the
plunger-end. Unlocking the ring clamp mechanism enables one to pull off the
nozzle-cum-tube (which as you've suggested is now 'full' of air - ready to
accept a sausage of goo.

If one is using two types of goo - from two cartridges- then one 'leaves'
the piston where it is and rotates the plunger bent-bit until one 'feels' it
release its grip; then retract the plunger, swap cartridges, push forward
the plunger until it touches the piston;rotate the end until you feel the
grip action ~ then extrude goo to your heart's content.
Once again
[This is easy to demonstrate in two ticks, but seems to take yonks to
describe]

I hope you my response has answered your questions.

Why not try QVC ; AIUI, thirty days to try it; if you don't like it send it
back; you'll only lose the post&packing (both ways).

--

Brian


Stuart Noble

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Jan 21, 2007, 1:17:12 PM1/21/07
to
Sounds to me like a solution to a problem that doesn't exist

Roger Mills

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Jan 21, 2007, 2:13:19 PM1/21/07
to
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Brian Sharrock <b.sha...@ntlworld.com> wrote:

> The principle seems to be thus ;-
> A cartridge of goo ( caulk, filler, pva ... whatever) consists of a
> plastic tube with a nozzle shape at the end. The tube is filled with
> the goo and closed with a movable 'piston' end. This piston is a
> dish-shaped circle that has backward pointing 'ends' ;
>
> [_____]
>
> goo in tube
>
> \ /
>
> nozzle
>
> Now, AIUI, the normal 'frame' type of device merely applies force to
> the piston cap and forces the goo forward. If pressure is relieved
> from the plunger ~ that's it: the no more pressure being applied but
> the piston cap still has a pressure and goo dribbles out of the
> nozzle. The type that we've been referring to is somewhat different; it's
> plunger end actually expands (two opposing dish 'washers' squeezing a
> rubber O-ring. This plunger end expansion actually grips the sides of
> the cartridge's 'piston cap'; thus when one relieves the pressure on
> the plunger it is possible to withdraw the cartridge's piston with
> the gripping plunger-end. The 'gripping' is achieved by rotating the
> plunger - using the ninety-degree bend part
>

Thanks for the further explanation Brian.

The bit I was missing is the fact that you can expand and contract the
piston by rotating its shaft.

Steve Walker

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Jan 23, 2007, 6:23:07 PM1/23/07
to

Thus creating a powerful vacuum, which implodes the empty part of the
tube.... :o)


Andy Dingley <dingbat@codesmiths.com>

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Jan 23, 2007, 7:13:50 PM1/23/07
to

On 20 Jan, 16:53, "Sparks" <postmas...@127.0.0.1> wrote:

> That's all well and good, but, if you remove a half used tube from this gun,
> won't this result in it sucking in loads of air!?

No, they only have half-an-inch or so of "suck" before they lose it.
OK for clearing a nozzle, but you can't empty a cartridge with it.
They also (IMHE) have trouble with cardboard tubes, like Gripfill.

At least they're better than the aluminium tube and plastic screwed
endcap design, as sold by Axminster for their white electric mastic
gun. A hearty squeeze on one of those snaps the endcap in two!
(replacements come from Lidl for a quid or two).

manat...@hotmail.com

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Jan 24, 2007, 8:33:27 AM1/24/07
to

On Jan 21, 6:17 pm, Stuart Noble <stuart_nobleNOS...@ntlworld.com>
wrote:
> Brian Sharrock wrote:
> > "Roger Mills" <watt.ty...@googlemail.com> wrote in message


> >news:51gqf9F...@mid.individual.net...
> >> In an earlier contribution to this discussion,

Exactly what I was thinking.

With my cheapo frame type gun I just press the tit on the plunger
withdrawal mechanism to release any pressure and that stops the
contents of the cartridge from dribbling out of the end of the nozzle.

MBQ

Stuart Noble

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Jan 24, 2007, 9:27:29 AM1/24/07
to
Nah, you want to get yourself the turbo charged remote control version :-)
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