SBR cement slurry as tiling adhesive?

[Harold Davis]

Hi,

I'm making a hearth. I've built a shallow wall around the edge made of
stone blocks, and in the middle I want to lay 17mm thick brick slips on top
of the screed that I made using sharp sand/cement/SBR (ratios 2.5/1/0.1).
The brick slips need to be level with the wall.

The problem is that the screed is a bit too high, and so I need to save as
much space as possible in whatever I use as adhesive under the brick slips.

Would it be feasible to use SBR cement slurry (say 1.5/1 cement/SBR) as the
only layer between the screed and the brick slips? (This is not counting a
wash of SBR with water on the screed if required, which will have
practically no thickness, but I was guessing this wouldn't be needed
because both the slurry and the screed contain SBR already, so I'm not
anticipating poor adhesion. Of course I could be wrong.)

Many thanks in advance for any help with this.

Harry

[tabb...@gmail.com]

I don't see a problem


NT

[Tim Watts]

Is this the wall of the hearth or the floor? Is this going to support a
fire or stove and thus needs to survive high temperatures?



Having used SBR a fair bit, I don't think this is a case where it would
work well.


If it's not going to have to survive high heat, just use a proper tile
adhesive - most of those will go down to 1-2mm bed thickness if you try.
I'd probably use Bal Bluestar for something like this, or maybe Greenstar.



The SBR plan is going to have 2 problems:

1) It's very slippery so the tile is going to need to be pressed into
place for the full set time.

2) If you did need to remove the tile and it did bond (see 3), it's not
coming off, ever.

3) It's not really a good gap filling mix, so whilst you think you want
practically zero thickness, you do need some to work into the texture of
the surfaces.



I you need something that supports heat, how about fire cement? Would
that work?

[Harold Davis]

Tim Watts <tw_u...@dionic.net> wrote in
news:sd5hic-...@squidward.sv.dionic.net:

> On 25/11/15 16:19, Harold Davis wrote:

>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm making a hearth. I've built a shallow wall around the edge made
>> of stone blocks, and in the middle I want to lay 17mm thick brick
>> slips on top of the screed that I made using sharp sand/cement/SBR
>> (ratios 2.5/1/0.1). The brick slips need to be level with the wall.
>>
>> The problem is that the screed is a bit too high, and so I need to
>> save as much space as possible in whatever I use as adhesive under
>> the brick slips.
>>
>> Would it be feasible to use SBR cement slurry (say 1.5/1 cement/SBR)
>> as the only layer between the screed and the brick slips? (This is
>> not counting a wash of SBR with water on the screed if required,
>> which will have practically no thickness, but I was guessing this
>> wouldn't be needed because both the slurry and the screed contain SBR
>> already, so I'm not anticipating poor adhesion. Of course I could be
>> wrong.)

> Is this the wall of the hearth or the floor? Is this going to support
> a fire or stove and thus needs to survive high temperatures?

It's the floor, in front of an open fire, so some heat but no high heat
and not a lot of weight either.

Under the grate itself, which won't be seen, I'll put some heat-resistant
screed (Vitcas brand) and no brick slips.

> Having used SBR a fair bit, I don't think this is a case where it
> would work well.

> If it's not going to have to survive high heat, just use a proper tile
> adhesive - most of those will go down to 1-2mm bed thickness if you
> try. I'd probably use Bal Bluestar for something like this, or maybe
> Greenstar.

Any views on Nicobond Quickfix, which is what I used to stick the same
brick slips to the chimney breast? My feeling is that I probably couldn't
get it down to 1-2mm.

> The SBR plan is going to have 2 problems:
>
> 1) It's very slippery so the tile is going to need to be pressed into
> place for the full set time.

The tiles are quite heavy, and I have ample so maybe I could put other
ones on top to press them down. Not sure how much weight would be needed.

> 2) If you did need to remove the tile and it did bond (see 3), it's
> not coming off, ever.

Oh that's not a problem! :-)

> 3) It's not really a good gap filling mix, so whilst you think you
> want practically zero thickness, you do need some to work into the
> texture of the surfaces.

OK got you. Maybe I could paint both surfaces with SBR and water?

> I you need something that supports heat, how about fire cement? Would
> that work?

That's made for higher temperatures, but I've got some. Not sure what the
advantage would be over just ordinary sand plus cement in this
application though.

Harry

[Harold Davis]

tabb...@gmail.com wrote in
news:f185e6fd-5703-44c3...@googlegroups.com:

> I don't see a problem

Thanks, NT. What do you think of Tim Watts's ideas on this?

I just want to be sure I don't eff this up, having already got the screed
higher than I wanted to!

Harry

[Tim Watts]

In that case, I think a mix-it-yourself (powdered) cementious floor tile
adhesive is your best bet. There is no reason that cannot be squeezed
down to 1-2mm - it's very fine powder, no coarse sand. It will handle
the heat as mine are done with the same, even under the stove, which
gets bloody hot.

[John Rumm]

FWIW, a builder friend of mine always claimed good success using nothing
but a mixture of plain ordinary portland cement and water as a floor
tile adhesive... I don't recall him adding SBR or PVA to the mix,
although it was usually applied to a screed that may have included some
anyway.


--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
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[Capitol]

When I was a lad working as a builders labourer, we always used
neat cement and water. The mix was also the grout and the tiles were quarry.

[Tim Watts]

On 25/11/15 18:29, Capitol wrote:

> When I was a lad working as a builders labourer, we always used
> neat cement and water. The mix was also the grout and the tiles were
> quarry.

How did that work? All the times I've mixed cement slurry (as a bonding
aid), the lumps left after I've scraped out the mixing pot always seemed
very soft, even after some considerable time. I *thought* you needed
some sort of filler, even if that was very fine sand.

I'm not doubting you, but it's not been my experience of neat cement...

[Capitol]

The consistency when mixed is very close to putty. It was
applied with a pointing trowel.

[Tim Watts]

Ah - perhaps it was to do with the slurry I've mixed being very wet (so
as to paint on old concrete to get a bond).

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, 25 November 2015 17:10:44 UTC, Harold Davis wrote:
> Tim Watts <tw_u...@dionic.net> wrote in
> news:sd5hic-...@squidward.sv.dionic.net:

> > I you need something that supports heat, how about fire cement? Would
> > that work?
>
> That's made for higher temperatures, but I've got some. Not sure what the
> advantage would be over just ordinary sand plus cement in this
> application though.

Fire cement is absolute shite. It's used when nothing else can take the heat.


NT

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, 25 November 2015 17:12:16 UTC, Harold Davis wrote:
> nt wrote in

You can stick floor tiles down either way. Commercial tile adhesive cement or acrylic mixes, or a cement & sand mix. I would not use fire cement though. If using cement, soak the tiles overnight first.


NT

[stuart noble]

I stuck some loose quarry tiles down on our front path with Gripfil
Original. No room for any thickness of adhesive, but seems to have
worked well