How to dig holes in tree-root infested soil

[MrWeld]

I need to dig some holes in soft wet clay soil with lots of small tree
roots in it. I've got a variety of spades, including a heavy narrow one
for digging drains, but the roots make it very difficult to make
progress. When I hit the roots with a spade they sink into the soil
rather than cutting cleanly.

What's the best way of dealing with roots? Is there a special kind of
spade that will cut through them easily? Should I sharpen the edge of a
spade with an angle grinder?

[Tim+]

I've used a two handled post hole digger very effectively to cut through
root infested soil. Sharpening won't hurt, unless you hit your foot of
course. ;-)

Tim

[Nightjar]

Digging holes Aussie style

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcGy1Z6m8iY

Colin Bignell

[rbel]

Start with sharpening the spade, that should cope with thin roots. If
that fails look at a heavy azada for relatively shallow (<25 cms)
holes or, for really stubborn roots a decent mattock. I use all three
depending on the size/depth of hole and density of roots.
--
rbel

[Jo...@underthewagon.net]

On Thu, 30 May 2013 21:34:12 +0100, Chris Hogg <m...@privacy.net> wrote:

>http://tinyurl.com/mzqjc7o


Or a mattock in English...

Regards
JonH

[The Natural Philosopher]

that's one way. I often cut them with pruning shears


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

[The Medway Handyman]

+1 & sharpen it with an angle grinder.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

[Gib Bogle]

Zappa in Italian.

[John Williamson]

Gib Bogle wrote:
> On 31/05/2013 9:02 a.m., Jo...@Underthewagon.net wrote:
>> On Thu, 30 May 2013 21:34:12 +0100, Chris Hogg <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>>
>>> http://tinyurl.com/mzqjc7o
>>
>>
>> Or a mattock in English...
>>

Known as a Mad Axe when I used to do landscaping work...
>>
>
> Zappa in Italian.

Frank? Is that you?

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[Gib Bogle]

Indeed, I am frank.

[harry]

> spade with an angle grinder?Ads not by this site

What you need is a mattock. Like a pickaxe with a broad
chopping blade.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mattock
You cut roots with the chopping bit.
Often see them at coar boot sales

[fred]

Or an Adze. You may need to cut along the length of the root rather than try to chop straight through it so whatever you decide on should have the head angled to allow this.

But having a mattcok I'd sharpen it well and keep it exclusively for cutting the roots as hitting stones with it will not improve its cutting ability

[stuart noble]

I use a bolster (the long handled variety would make it easier) with a
club hammer. Then again it's a job I rarely need to do

[Jim K]

On May 30, 10:23 pm, Chris Hogg <m...@privacy.net> wrote:

> Well, actually no. A mattock is a lighter tool. A grub axe has a heavy
> mattock-type blade on one side, and an axe blade on the other.
> Designed especially for grubbing out tree roots and stumps.

??
you describe two forms of mattock - pick & axe

Jim K

[John Rumm]

On 30/05/2013 21:23, MrWeld wrote:

A grubbing mattock is the thing for digging in difficult soils. Chop up
an are with it first then shovel out, repeat as necessary.


--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

On Fri, 31 May 2013 11:41:09 +1200, Gib Bogle <g.b...@auckland.ac.nz>
wrote:

>>> Zappa in Italian.
>>
>> Frank? Is that you?
>>
>
>Indeed, I am frank.

Meet Ernest.

[Sam Plusnet]

In article <MKSdnYrHL9SLIjXM...@brightview.co.uk>,
see.my.s...@nowhere.null says...

>
> On 30/05/2013 21:23, MrWeld wrote:
> > I need to dig some holes in soft wet clay soil with lots of small tree
> > roots in it. I've got a variety of spades, including a heavy narrow one
> > for digging drains, but the roots make it very difficult to make
> > progress. When I hit the roots with a spade they sink into the soil
> > rather than cutting cleanly.
> >
> > What's the best way of dealing with roots? Is there a special kind of
> > spade that will cut through them easily? Should I sharpen the edge of a
> > spade with an angle grinder?
>
> A grubbing mattock is the thing for digging in difficult soils. Chop up
> an are with it first then shovel out, repeat as necessary.

I was digging a planting hole near some trees today & used a mattock to
get through the roots.

The tool I would really like now is something to scoop the loose soil
from the bottom of the planting hole. Something like a broad, scooped
trowel blade set at an angle to a 14 - 16 inch long handle.

--
Sam

[letsh...@gmail.com]

After years of experimenting the only tool I now use for digging down in difficult ground is a Post Hole Bar - Chisel End 7.7kg 1.75M. It will cut through anything and give you deep narrow holes if that's what you want.

Made out of tempered steel, it is also the best leverage bar for removing heavy stones or roots.

Sharpen with angle grinder as required.

I only wish I had got one 30 years earlier!

[rbel]

On Fri, 31 May 2013 19:01:49 +0100, Chris Hogg <m...@privacy.net> wrote:


>
>My understanding of a grub axe: http://tinypic.com/r/2qnd1d1/5
>The handle is about as long as a pickaxe handle. The head on the one I
>have is heavier than the one illustrated.

This is very similar to what I would call a mattock, as sold by our
local agricultural suppliers.

>
>My understanding of a mattock: http://tinypic.com/r/2ziui4y/5
>(the long handled one).

The long handled one is an azada, see
http://www.get-digging.co.uk/tools.htm for examples of varying weights
of them and, about 1/3 way down the page some of their mattocks.

>
>Different folks may have different names for them.

That would seem to be the case.
--
rbel

[John Rumm]

A hand hoe perhaps?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wooden-Handle-Blade-Turning-Gardening/dp/B0080DPGI0/ref=pd_sim_sbs_diy_1

or

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Stainless-Hand-Hoe-Burgon-Ball/dp/B000NNQZJ4

[bm]

"John Rumm" <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote in message
news:1sednfgNt-Fq3zTM...@brightview.co.uk...

> On 31/05/2013 21:46, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>> In article <MKSdnYrHL9SLIjXM...@brightview.co.uk>,
>> see.my.s...@nowhere.null says...
>>>
>>> On 30/05/2013 21:23, MrWeld wrote:
>>>> I need to dig some holes in soft wet clay soil with lots of small tree
>>>> roots in it. I've got a variety of spades, including a heavy narrow one
>>>> for digging drains, but the roots make it very difficult to make
>>>> progress. When I hit the roots with a spade they sink into the soil
>>>> rather than cutting cleanly.
>>>>
>>>> What's the best way of dealing with roots? Is there a special kind of
>>>> spade that will cut through them easily? Should I sharpen the edge of a
>>>> spade with an angle grinder?
>>>
>>> A grubbing mattock is the thing for digging in difficult soils. Chop up
>>> an are with it first then shovel out, repeat as necessary.
>>
>> I was digging a planting hole near some trees today & used a mattock to
>> get through the roots.
>>
>> The tool I would really like now is something to scoop the loose soil
>> from the bottom of the planting hole. Something like a broad, scooped
>> trowel blade set at an angle to a 14 - 16 inch long handle.
>
> A hand hoe perhaps?
>
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wooden-Handle-Blade-Turning-Gardening/dp/B0080DPGI0/ref=pd_sim_sbs_diy_1
>
> or
>
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Stainless-Hand-Hoe-Burgon-Ball/dp/B000NNQZJ4

A hand hoe sounds like just what I need, leastways at this time of night ;)

[ne...@sylva.icuklive.co.uk]

On Thu, 30 May 2013 21:23:23 +0100, MrWeld <MrWeld> wrote:

>What's the best way of dealing with roots? Is there a special kind of
>spade that will cut through them easily? Should I sharpen the edge of a
>spade with an angle grinder?

Sharp spade or mattock, if it's clay it won't get blunt too soon.

I prefer the mattock as the spade gives me some sort of RSI of the
elbow.

Anyone seen or tried one of these?

http://www.theslammer.co.nz


AJH

[PeterC]

My soil didn't have roots but was stony in places and one hole coincided
with an old hole. I did the loosening and breaking part with a big crowbar
(had it, so cheaper than buying the correct tool and only 6 holes to do)
then used one of these:
http://www.wickes.co.uk/invt/190347
No good for straight digging, but really good for removing the soil.
TMH mentioned it, so thanks to him.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

[polygonum]

Interesting. Is the costume mandatory?

--
Rod

[Sam Plusnet]

In article <1sednfgNt-Fq3zTM...@brightview.co.uk>,
see.my.s...@nowhere.null says...

> > The tool I would really like now is something to scoop the loose soil
> > from the bottom of the planting hole. Something like a broad, scooped
> > trowel blade set at an angle to a 14 - 16 inch long handle.
>
> A hand hoe perhaps?
>
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wooden-Handle-Blade-Turning-Gardening/dp/B0080DPGI0/ref=pd_sim_sbs_diy_1
>

That's got something like the right length handle, but the blade is flat
whilst I want something scooped so the loose soil doesn't just fall off
as you lift it out of the hole. It also looks a bit hefty for something
which only needs deal with loose soil.

> or
>
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Stainless-Hand-Hoe-Burgon-Ball/dp/B000NNQZJ4
>
>
That looks to be about the right sort of weight, but the blade is flat &
small, whilst the handle is too short.

Imagine a planting hole about a foot deep.
All the loose soil falls to the bottom as you deepen & widen the hole.
I want something to reach down there & scoop it out without having to
grovel too much.


--
Sam

[rbel]

On Sat, 1 Jun 2013 20:53:57 +0100, Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:


>Imagine a planting hole about a foot deep.
>All the loose soil falls to the bottom as you deepen & widen the hole.
>I want something to reach down there & scoop it out without having to
>grovel too much.

I used my azada to do this afternoon, the hole was a bit deeper but it
works reasonably well, just place the edge of the blade at the far
side of the hole and drag it towards you. Some earth falls off but it
is more effective than using a spade. The only alternative that I can
think of is using a large catering ladle fixed to a wooden
pole/handle.
--
rbel

[polygonum]

Bit expensive for the sort of use I would make of one. Probably around £150.

--
Rod

[Sam Plusnet]

In article <mjskq8ttq58hmrckl...@4ax.com>, rbel says...

I think an azada is going on my shopping list - provided that I can get
it in the shed along with all the other tools I've collected over the
years.

That catering ladle does sound about right as well - I wonder if they
come with long handles...

Off to do some research.

--
Sam

[F Murtz]

What would O&HS make of the possibility of finger damage at the slide entry?

[PeterC]

TMH recommended this one - and I can confirm that it's v. good for the loose
stuff:
http://search.wickes.co.uk/search?w=post%20hole%20digger