Ball valves, gate valves and stop cocks

[ne...@loampitsfarm.co.uk]

What different functions do stopcocks, ball and gate valves and have
in a water circuit and why?

AJH

[Roger Mills]

They all stop or allow water flow, but do it by different means.

Stopcocks wind a rubber washer onto a seat and seal completely (when the
washer is good). They need several rotations of the handle to go from on
to off, and are unlikely to be turned on or off accidentally. They are
good for varying the flow rate. The water takes a rather tortuous path
through them - causing some flow restriction even when fully open.

The innards of a ball valve consists of a sphere with a hole through it.
When the hole is in line with the inlet and outlet, water flows. When
the sphere is rotated through 90 degrees, no water flows. These are
really just on/off devices and are not intended to be used in any
position other than open or closed. There are two basic types - small
bore and full bore. Small bore valves - often operated by a screwdriver
- are used as service valves on toilets, etc. Full bore valves - often
operated by a lever - are used in situations such as isolator valves in
heating systems, where it is important not to restrict the flow when
they are open.

Gate valves open and close by winding a disc across a hole. They allow
full flow when fully open and can also be used partially open to
regulate the flow. They are sometimes (unwisely!) used as isolator
valves on central heating pumps. Problem is that they don't always seal
completely and they are frequently found to be seized up when you try to
operate them!
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

[harry]

A "stopcock" is and obsolete term.
If you mean a globe valve, it is intended for throttling (ie reducing flow by being left partly open if required. It has a replaceable "washer" as the washer is damaged by this process.


Gate valve are intended for isolating part of a system and should be either open or closed, not left part open or the seat will be eroded.

Ball valves are a cheap substitute for gate valves, again should be left fully open or closed, not in an intermediate position. Most have a short life, ie won't properly/function after a few years.


There are many other sorts/sub-categories of all of the above for special purposes.

Eg air, gases, steam, corrosive liquids etc

[John Rumm]

On 30/10/2015 21:59, ne...@loampitsfarm.co.uk wrote:

> What different functions do stopcocks, ball and gate valves and have
> in a water circuit and why?

Stopcocks are usually of a traditional tap style design - a rubber tap
washer pressed onto a valve seat by a screw mechanism requiring multiple
turns to activate. Can be used for both isolation and throttling.

Gate valves (of the domestic genus) have several purposes. They are very
good at failing to open at all when you open them, and failing to close
completely when you close them, and can afford hours of endless fun
twiddling a nicely coloured hand wheel that is no longer actually
connected to anything!

Ball valves are designed for servicing (i.e. full on or off), they tend
to be noisy and difficult to adjust if used for throttling. They are
quick in operation (a quarter turn from open to closed). Full bore ones
offer little or no flow resistance. Very cheap ones may weep from the
screw head when left in any position other than the fully open or closed.


--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

[David Lang]

On 31/10/2015 07:06, harry wrote:
> On Friday, 30 October 2015 21:59:03 UTC, ne...@loampitsfarm.co.uk
> wrote:
>> What different functions do stopcocks, ball and gate valves and
>> have in a water circuit and why?
>>
>> AJH
>
> A "stopcock" is and obsolete term.

No it isn't, idiot.

[harry]

On Saturday, 31 October 2015 16:44:17 UTC, David Lang wrote:
> On 31/10/2015 07:06, harry wrote:
> > On Friday, 30 October 2015 21:59:03 UTC, ne...@loampitsfarm.co.uk
> > wrote:
> >> What different functions do stopcocks, ball and gate valves and
> >> have in a water circuit and why?
> >>
> >> AJH
> >
> > A "stopcock" is and obsolete term.
>
> No it isn't, idiot.

There is no such thing in today's terminology.

[dennis@home]

Are you going to tell that to all the plumbers merchants that sell them?

[ne...@loampitsfarm.co.uk]

On Fri, 30 Oct 2015 22:59:34 +0000, Roger Mills <watt....@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Full bore valves - often
>operated by a lever - are used in situations such as isolator valves in
>heating systems, where it is important not to restrict the flow when
>they are open.

Thanks, I'll be using these then.

AJH

[Tim Watts]

And a good one - IME Peglar are worth the few extra quid. Come in lever
and butterfly (toggle) format. I have lots and have never had any
trouble, except that the knobs can corrode a bit used outside.

[John Rumm]

On 31/10/2015 16:51, harry wrote:

Is that right Mr Testicle?

Spose that means you won't be able to find such a thing with the normal
trade and DIY suppliers then. Hmmmm, let's see:

http://www.screwfix.com/p/jg-speedfit-22stvp-stopcocks-22mm/14768
http://www.toolstation.com/search?searchstr=stopcock
https://www.bes.co.uk/products/097.asp
http://www.plumbcenter.co.uk/en/plumbing-drainage/brassware/taps---valves/conex-701-stopcock-22/
http://www.diy.com/search/results/?question=stopcock
http://www.wickes.co.uk/search?text=stopcock
http://www.travisperkins.co.uk/search?text=stopcock
http://www.jewson.co.uk/search-results/?keywords=stopcock
http://www.buildbase.co.uk/stopcocks-10074-0000

Na, that's the trouble with talking bollocks, you can never take their
word for anything.

[harry]

Exactly proves my point.
A meaningless term.
A whole variety of different valves are depicted.
So if you went into one of these places and asked for a "stopcock" they would have to ask you what you meant/needed it for.
It's like going in a florists and asking for a flower.

You really are a shit-fer-brains aren't you?

[dennis@home]

On 01/11/2015 08:05, harry wrote:


> Exactly proves my point. A meaningless term. A whole variety of
> different valves are depicted.

Can you tell us what differs about them other than their shape and
connection type?

The only one I would question is the stop sure as it works in a
different way to all the others.

> So if you went into one of these places and asked for a "stopcock"
> they would have to ask you what you meant/needed it for. It's like
> going in a florists and asking for a flower.

If you went in and asked for a ball valve they would also ask you what
you wanted so by your logic they don't exist either.


Fixed your sig for you.

--

shit-fer-brains

[spuorg...@gowanhill.com]

On Sunday, 1 November 2015 12:28:03 UTC, dennis@home wrote:
> If you went in and asked for a ball valve they would also ask you what
> you wanted so by your logic they don't exist either.

Valves for balls, obviously.

Footballs, less obviously.

Owain

[Fredxxx]

On 31/10/2015 07:06, harry wrote:

> On Friday, 30 October 2015 21:59:03 UTC, ne...@loampitsfarm.co.uk wrote:
>> What different functions do stopcocks, ball and gate valves and have
>> in a water circuit and why?
>>
>> AJH
>
> A "stopcock" is and obsolete term.

Remarkable how hard someone can try to seen as ignorant. It is well and
truly a current term and is likely to be for at least another generation.

More's the point, you try asking for a "globe valve" anywhere, apart
from a true plumber's merchant, and watch their eyes glaze over.

Such a shame as the rest of your post was quite informative.

[John Rumm]

[learn to snip]

> Exactly proves my point.

Not even slightly, but nice try...

> A meaningless term.
> A whole variety of different valves are depicted.

All of them appropriate for acting as stopcocks, funny eh?

> So if you went into one of these places and asked for a "stopcock" they would have to ask you what you meant/needed it for.
> It's like going in a florists and asking for a flower.

Hardly. Ask a plumber's merchant for a stopcock and they are not going
to offer you a 15mm ball valve with screwdriver operation, or a gate
valve. They will offer you a tap with piped inlet and outlet of one kind
or another. They may query if you want compression or pushfit, but
either way you will get a stopcock, and not a service valve or a
plasticine gate valve.

> You really are a shit-fer-brains aren't you?

I am very relieved that you believe so.

[harry]

If they were all intended for the same purpose they would work in a similar manner.
But they aren't and they don't.
Each design has a specific purpose.
If you use it for something else, it will have a short life/may not even work at all.
But you're too dopey to know about that.

[harry]

They glaze over because they are "box shifters" with no detailed technical knowledge. Probably on minimum wage and no education.

The term "stopcock" goes back hundreds of years and originally referred to an all wooden valve designed to regulated beer coming out of barrels. You can still get them.
There was no need for other types of valve until metal pipes were invented.

As there are dozens of valve types these days, the term is meaningless. Only the ignorant use it.

The correct generic term would be "isolating valve".
Even then there are many possible isolating valves.
Different ones for different pressures, temperatures, liquids gases, even solids etc.

The other main valve type is an "obturator/ing valve".
Ie one that is designed to throttle.
There are many types of these too.

These two cover 99% of valves.

[David Lang]

On 01/11/2015 17:22, harry wrote:
> On Sunday, 1 November 2015 13:26:14 UTC, Fredxxx wrote:
>> On 31/10/2015 07:06, harry wrote:
>>> On Friday, 30 October 2015 21:59:03 UTC, ne...@loampitsfarm.co.uk wrote:
>>>> What different functions do stopcocks, ball and gate valves and have
>>>> in a water circuit and why?
>>>>
>>>> AJH
>>>
>>> A "stopcock" is and obsolete term.
>>
>> Remarkable how hard someone can try to seen as ignorant. It is well and
>> truly a current term and is likely to be for at least another generation.
>>
>> More's the point, you try asking for a "globe valve" anywhere, apart
>> from a true plumber's merchant, and watch their eyes glaze over.
>>
>> Such a shame as the rest of your post was quite informative.
>
> They glaze over because they are "box shifters" with no detailed technical knowledge. Probably on minimum wage and no education.
>
> The term "stopcock" goes back hundreds of years and originally referred to an all wooden valve designed to regulated beer coming out of barrels. You can still get them.
> There was no need for other types of valve until metal pipes were invented.
>
> As there are dozens of valve types these days, the term is meaningless. Only the ignorant use it.
>
> The correct generic term would be "isolating valve".

Twat.

[John Rumm]

If what? Valves or stopcocks?

> were all intended for the same purpose they would work in a similar manner.

Illogical...

Its possible to come up with multiple successful but different designs
that meet a requirement in most cases.

> But they aren't and they don't.
> Each design has a specific purpose.

Each design of stopcock will have the purpose of acting as a stopcock...

> If you use it for something else, it will have a short life/may not even work at all.

You say some profound stuff...

> But you're too dopey to know about that.

You really need to think of some better insults, your getting even less
original than wodney.

[John Rumm]

On 01/11/2015 17:22, harry wrote:

> The correct generic term would be "isolating valve".

You are depriving a village of an idiot.

[Fredxxx]

On 01/11/2015 17:22, harry wrote:

> On Sunday, 1 November 2015 13:26:14 UTC, Fredxxx wrote:
>> On 31/10/2015 07:06, harry wrote:
>>> On Friday, 30 October 2015 21:59:03 UTC, ne...@loampitsfarm.co.uk
>>> wrote:
>>>> What different functions do stopcocks, ball and gate valves and
>>>> have in a water circuit and why?
>>>>
>>>> AJH
>>>
>>> A "stopcock" is and obsolete term.
>>
>> Remarkable how hard someone can try to seen as ignorant. It is
>> well and truly a current term and is likely to be for at least
>> another generation.
>>
>> More's the point, you try asking for a "globe valve" anywhere,
>> apart from a true plumber's merchant, and watch their eyes glaze
>> over.
>>
>> Such a shame as the rest of your post was quite informative.
>
> They glaze over because they are "box shifters" with no detailed
> technical knowledge. Probably on minimum wage and no education.

But they would be likely to understand the term "stopcock" and even find
one for the customer. Only a self opinionated arsehole would even ask
for a globe valve. It's not a domestic plumbing term.

> The term "stopcock" goes back hundreds of years and originally
> referred to an all wooden valve designed to regulated beer coming
> out of barrels. You can still get them. There was no need for other
> types of valve until metal pipes were invented.
>
> As there are dozens of valve types these days, the term is
> meaningless. Only the ignorant use it.
>
> The correct generic term would be "isolating valve". Even then there
> are many possible isolating valves. Different ones for different
> pressures, temperatures, liquids gases, even solids etc.

Again if you asked a "box shifter" employee for an isolation valve he
might get one for you, in either 15 or 22mm.

If you has something to prove to yourself or want to show yourself as an
ignorant arsehole, of course you might ask for something else.

[harry]

On Monday, 2 November 2015 12:27:01 UTC, Fredxxx wrote:
> On 01/11/2015 17:22, harry wrote:
> > On Sunday, 1 November 2015 13:26:14 UTC, Fredxxx wrote:
> >> On 31/10/2015 07:06, harry wrote:
> >>> On Friday, 30 October 2015 21:59:03 UTC, ne...@loampitsfarm.co.uk
> >>> wrote:
> >>>> What different functions do stopcocks, ball and gate valves and
> >>>> have in a water circuit and why?
> >>>>
> >>>> AJH
> >>>
> >>> A "stopcock" is and obsolete term.
> >>
> >> Remarkable how hard someone can try to seen as ignorant. It is
> >> well and truly a current term and is likely to be for at least
> >> another generation.
> >>
> >> More's the point, you try asking for a "globe valve" anywhere,
> >> apart from a true plumber's merchant, and watch their eyes glaze
> >> over.
> >>
> >> Such a shame as the rest of your post was quite informative.
> >
> > They glaze over because they are "box shifters" with no detailed
> > technical knowledge. Probably on minimum wage and no education.
>
> But they would be likely to understand the term "stopcock" and even find
> one for the customer. Only a self opinionated arsehole would even ask
> for a globe valve. It's not a domestic plumbing term.

Domestic plumbing is only a tiny part of pipework design.
As are the valves available in the sheds.
Only the ignorant don't know what it means.
I have designed heating/hot water installations for large buildings including steam boilers.
There are a lot of ignoramuses here with no qualifiacations in heating apart from domestic houses, don't understand the theory or even the correct terminology for components.

[dennis@home]

This is a DIY group not a discussion board for designing hospital
heating systems.
You are wrong as usual.

[John Rumm]

On 04/11/2015 17:33, harry wrote:

> On Monday, 2 November 2015 12:27:01 UTC, Fredxxx wrote:
>> On 01/11/2015 17:22, harry wrote:
>>> On Sunday, 1 November 2015 13:26:14 UTC, Fredxxx wrote:
>>>> On 31/10/2015 07:06, harry wrote:
>>>>> On Friday, 30 October 2015 21:59:03 UTC,
>>>>> ne...@loampitsfarm.co.uk wrote:
>>>>>> What different functions do stopcocks, ball and gate valves
>>>>>> and have in a water circuit and why?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> AJH
>>>>>
>>>>> A "stopcock" is and obsolete term.
>>>>
>>>> Remarkable how hard someone can try to seen as ignorant. It
>>>> is well and truly a current term and is likely to be for at
>>>> least another generation.
>>>>
>>>> More's the point, you try asking for a "globe valve" anywhere,
>>>> apart from a true plumber's merchant, and watch their eyes
>>>> glaze over.
>>>>
>>>> Such a shame as the rest of your post was quite informative.
>>>
>>> They glaze over because they are "box shifters" with no detailed
>>> technical knowledge. Probably on minimum wage and no education.
>>
>> But they would be likely to understand the term "stopcock" and even
>> find one for the customer. Only a self opinionated arsehole would
>> even ask for a globe valve. It's not a domestic plumbing term.
>
>
> Domestic plumbing is only a tiny part of pipework design.

We are talking about domestic plumbing

> As are the valves available in the sheds.

We are talking about suppliers of parts for domestic plumbing

> Only the ignorant don't know what it means.

Only the ignorant don't know stuff - deep harry, deep.

> I have designed heating/hot water installations for large buildings
> including steam boilers.

Not domestic, so again not what we are talking about here.

> There are a lot of ignoramuses here with no
> qualifiacations in heating apart from domestic houses,

We are discussing domestic houses you imbecile.

> don't
> understand the theory or even the correct terminology for
> components.

You being the primary example it seems.