Re: People drinking less ..

[Fredxx]

On 15/02/2024 10:48, Jethro_uk wrote:
> Because of the price, amongst other factors.
>
> Would have thought there would be a surge in homebrewing ?
>
> (Posted by someone who has home distilled for 17 years ...)

Is this in the freezer type of concentrating or a genuine still?

I'm very wary of distilling a flammable liquid that has a history of
deaths and explosions!

[Rod Speed]

Fredxx <fre...@spam.invalid> wrote

> Jethro_uk wrote

>> Because of the price, amongst other factors.

>> Would have thought there would be a surge in homebrewing ?

Presumably there has been but its not trivial to do.

>> (Posted by someone who has home distilled for 17 years ...)

More than 20 for me and beer and cider too.

> Is this in the freezer type of concentrating or a genuine still?

Genuine still in my case.

> I'm very wary of distilling a flammable liquid that has a history of
> deaths

No it does not in the first world. That only happens
in the 3rd world where the worst of them deliberately
sell methanol instead of ethanol because its cheaper.

> and explosions!

Can't happen.

[Peeler]

On Fri, 16 Feb 2024 03:38:19 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
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[JNugent]

On 15/02/2024 04:48, Jethro_uk wrote:

> Because of the price, amongst other factors.
>
> Would have thought there would be a surge in homebrewing ?
>

> (Posted by someone who has home distilled for 17 years ...)

The popularity of home brewing (and wine-making) has been up and down
over the decades.

[Fredxx]

Of course it can't happen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QYN7EDVTGA

And you say you're subject is chemistry? Sheesh

[Sam Plusnet]

When I took it up (many years back), it was because I knew people who
already did it so I had examples (and advice) to follow.

If the numbers involved in home brewing has declined too far, people
will not see it as a possible option.

--
Sam Plusnet

[Rod Speed]

There is nothing even remotely like that with a STILL, fuckwit.

[Rod Speed]

Donf believe that with the internet so common now.

[JNugent]

:-)

Some might say that being offered a taste of someone's home brew will
deter them from trying it for themselves.
>

[Rod Speed]

Never happened with any of mine.

[Peeler]

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[Peeler]

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[Fredxx]

So?? Next you'll be saying 'it can't happen'.

Yes, of course it couldn't possibly happen:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/jul/14/inferno-moonshine-liquor-factory-five-dead

[Peeler]

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[JNugent]

Yours must be better than any of the home brew I've ever been offered.

[Rod Speed]

Fredxx <fre...@spam.invalid> wrote

> Rod Speed wrote
>> Fredxx <fre...@spam.invalid> wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> Fredxx <fre...@spam.invalid> wrote
>>>>> Jethro_uk wrote

>>>>>> Because of the price, amongst other factors.

>>>>>> Would have thought there would be a surge in homebrewing ?

>>>> Presumably there has been but its not trivial to do.

>>>>>> (Posted by someone who has home distilled for 17 years ...)

>>>> More than 20 for me and beer and cider too.

>>>>> Is this in the freezer type of concentrating or a genuine still?

>>>> Genuine still in my case.

>>>>> I'm very wary of distilling a flammableliquid that has a history

>>>>> of deaths

>>>> No it does not in the first world. That only happens
>>>> in the 3rd world where the worst of them deliberately
>>>> sell methanol instead of ethanol because its cheaper.

>>>>> and explosions!

>>>> Can't happen.

>>> Of course it can't happen:

>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QYN7EDVTGA

>> There is nothing even remotely like that with a STILL, fuckwit.

> So??

So, given that there is nothing even remotely like that
with a STILL, it isnt going to happen with a STILL, fuckwit.

Next you'll be saying 'it can't happen'.

> Yes, of course it couldn't possibly happen:

> https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/jul/14/inferno-moonshine-liquor-factory-five-dead

Thats not an EXPLOSION, fuckwit.

[Rod Speed]

JNugent <jennings&c...@mail.com> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> JNugent <jennings&c...@mail.com> wrote
>>> Sam Plusnet wrote
>>>> JNugent wrote

>>>>> Jethro_uk wrote

>>>>>> Because of the price, amongst other factors.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Would have thought there would be a surge in homebrewing ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (Posted by someone who has home distilled for 17 years ...)
>>>>>
>>>>> The popularity of home brewing (and wine-making) has been up and down
>>>>> over the decades.
>>>>
>>>> When I took it up (many years back), it was because I knew people who
>>>> already did it so I had examples (and advice) to follow.
>>>>
>>>> If the numbers involved in home brewing has declined too far, people
>>>> will not see it as a possible option.
>>>
>>> :-)
>>>
>>> Some might say that being offered a taste of someone's home brew will
>>> deter them from trying it for themselves.
>>
>> Never happened with any of mine.
>
> Yours must be better than any of the home brew I've ever been offered.

Yes they are.

[Peeler]

On Fri, 16 Feb 2024 11:38:56 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent

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[Peeler]

On Fri, 16 Feb 2024 11:40:32 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent

[Paul]

On 2/16/2024 4:23 AM, Ottavio Caruso wrote:

> How do you make wine at home? I mean real wine, not Lambrini.
>

Depends what you mean by wine.

We have a wine-making store here, and at harvest time, flats
of wine-making grapes are available, if you want to make
wine directly from grapes.

You can also get wine concentrate, which takes the labour of
dealing with grapes out of the equation. You can think of that
as "quality control".

It involves a good sized room, carboys, one-way valve on top for
fermentation exhaust to exit through. Then there's some
sort of gadget for measuring the "done-ness" (refractometer?).

https://blog.homebrewing.org/wine-refractometer-alcohol-tester/

But it all looks like a colossal bore to me, because the wine
you get from that, is not going to match your favourite vintage
you might have picked up at the store.

You can also make things at home, you are more likely to savour,
rather than guzzle.

There are other potential steps in wine-making, but the
people I've known doing it, they don't bother with this.

https://homebrewing.org/pages/wine-making-adding-oak-to-your-homemade-wines

A typical homemade wine, you'd probably drink all of it, within
a couple years of making it. You don't leave that stuff
in your "wine cellar". You might try something like this to
make it palatable longer.

https://blog.homebrewing.org/adding-sulfites-to-homemade-wine/

If the result does not taste like furniture polish or turps,
you're doing good :-)

No, I've never made wine. It's just too much work.

Paul

[Smolley]

On Fri, 16 Feb 2024 14:15:23 +0000, Ottavio Caruso wrote:

> Am 16/02/2024 um 11:08 schrieb Paul:
>> Depends what you mean by wine.
>

> Wine is an industrial product. You don't "brew" wine. Whatever that
> store sells, it's not wine.

Vinegar

[maus]

People are polite.

--
grey...@mail.com
Is There not even one Influencer here to torment?

[maus]

On 2024-02-16, maus <ma...@deb2.org> wrote:
> On 2024-02-15, Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 16 Feb 2024 08:01:11 +1100, JNugent <jennings&c...@mail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 15/02/2024 13:14, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>>>> On 15-Feb-24 17:14, JNugent wrote:
>>>>> On 15/02/2024 04:48, Jethro_uk wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Because of the price, amongst other factors.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Would have thought there would be a surge in homebrewing ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (Posted by someone who has home distilled for 17 years ...)
>>>>>
>>>>> The popularity of home brewing (and wine-making) has been up and down
>>>>> over the decades.
>>>>

>> Never happened with any of mine.
>
> People are polite.

To be serious.

There are secrets to beer making, and the most important, IMHO, is
cleanliness. Everything sealed from outside air, ubends, all. My late
wife made it (non-alcoholic), her friend, and my son,

[Rod Speed]

These aren't. I had to refuse to make their beer.
I told them that I would teach them how to make
their own, but I wasnt going to make it for them.

[JNugent]

On 16/02/2024 03:23, Ottavio Caruso wrote:

> Am 15/02/2024 um 17:14 schrieb JNugent:

> How do you make wine at home? I mean real wine, not Lambrini.

I believe that it is usual to use either grapes or substances derived
from that fruit.

I have also heard of various wines made from parts of plants usual
regarded as flowering plants. The one that springs readily to mind is
elderberry.

Quite a few years back (when a bottle of Bordeaux was still priced at
under a pound in the UK), we used to make wine. We had all the
equipment. But I didn't care for the finished product and we ceased
production.

[Peeler]

On Sat, 17 Feb 2024 04:08:22 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent

[Joe]

On Sat, 17 Feb 2024 04:08:22 +1100

Give a man a fish...

...and he'll be back in the same place the next day waiting for *his*
fish.

--
Joe

[Joe]

On Fri, 16 Feb 2024 11:29:23 -0600
JNugent <jennings&c...@mail.com> wrote:

> On 16/02/2024 03:23, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
>
> > Am 15/02/2024 um 17:14 schrieb JNugent:
> >> On 15/02/2024 04:48, Jethro_uk wrote:
> >>
> >>> Because of the price, amongst other factors.
> >>>
> >>> Would have thought there would be a surge in homebrewing ?
> >>>
> >>> (Posted by someone who has home distilled for 17 years ...)
> >>
> >> The popularity of home brewing (and wine-making) has been up and
> >> down over the decades.
> >
> > How do you make wine at home? I mean real wine, not Lambrini.
>
> I believe that it is usual to use either grapes or substances derived
> from that fruit.
>
> I have also heard of various wines made from parts of plants usual
> regarded as flowering plants. The one that springs readily to mind is
> elderberry.

Also, oddly, stinging nettles. We made some from our own rhubarb and
sugar, which when fermented, would probably have etched glass. The
fruit itself was too sour to eat without a lot of sugar. So we left it,
and after three or four years tried it again, when it was reasonably
good.

>
> Quite a few years back (when a bottle of Bordeaux was still priced at
> under a pound in the UK), we used to make wine. We had all the
> equipment. But I didn't care for the finished product and we ceased
> production.

We tried making 'proper' wines from grape juice, but could never make
anything approaching the real thing. However, grape juice and fruit
juice produced some pleasant drinks. We had one grape and orange
fermentation 'stick', it just stopped fermenting and we couldn't make it
start again. So we stuck it in bottles, a rather sweet, weak drink, and
again forgot it.

One day, under the stairs, there was an odd, orangey smell. One of the
corks had blown out of the bottle, and a couple of others were partway
out. So I wired all the corks down and we left them another couple of
months, the opened our first orange Champagne. One of the others, when
I removed the wire, fired the cork about ten feet in the air (I opened
them outside in case of serious frothing).

But yes, too much trouble for what we got out of it.

--
Joe

[SteveW]

On 17/02/2024 09:26, Ottavio Caruso wrote:

> Am 16/02/2024 um 17:29 schrieb JNugent:
>>
>> I believe that it is usual to use either grapes or substances derived
>> from that fruit.
>

> Wine is not grape juice. You need to ferment the wort and you can't do
> it at home or in a cellar. You need climate-controlled large areas to do
> that and they cost millions.

Wine has been around for millenia - well before climate controlled,
commercial operations. It is more arguable whether the modern stuff is
real wine.

[JNugent]

On 17/02/2024 03:26, Ottavio Caruso wrote:

> Am 16/02/2024 um 17:29 schrieb JNugent:
>>

>> I believe that it is usual to use either grapes or substances derived
>> from that fruit.
>

> Wine is not grape juice.

REALLY?

Who knew?

[Yes, that was mild sarcasm.]

> You need to ferment the wort and you can't do
> it at home or in a cellar. You need climate-controlled large areas to do
> that and they cost millions.

Nevertheless, plenty of people make wine at home. They must find it
palatable. I didn't.

[alan_m]

Does modern wine or beer have much to do with that produced more than a
100 to 200 years ago? Historically beer was drunk because it was safer
that the water - in times before they realised that boiling water would
make the water safe. But did the beer taste the same to our
sophisticated taste buds of today? I very much doubt. Brewed from the
local river water and possible to a much higher ABV so it could be
watered down before serving. Very cloudy (no clear glass pint
containers) and possible without the use of hops. No real hygiene
standards and frequent yeast contamination. Each batch probably tasted
different.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

[Rod Speed]

On Sun, 18 Feb 2024 18:54:19 +1100, alan_m <ju...@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

> On 17/02/2024 10:13, SteveW wrote:
>> On 17/02/2024 09:26, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
>>> Am 16/02/2024 um 17:29 schrieb JNugent:
>>>>
>>>> I believe that it is usual to use either grapes or substances derived
>>>> from that fruit.
>>>
>>> Wine is not grape juice. You need to ferment the wort and you can't do
>>> it at home or in a cellar. You need climate-controlled large areas to
>>> do that and they cost millions.
>> Wine has been around for millenia - well before climate controlled,
>> commercial operations. It is more arguable whether the modern stuff is
>> real wine.

> Does modern wine or beer have much to do with that produced more than a
> 100 to 200 years ago?

Both do.

> Historically beer was drunk because it was safer that the water - in
> times before they realised that boiling water would make the water safe.
> But did the beer taste the same to our sophisticated taste buds of
> today? I very much doubt.

It does anyway with the best of the older beers.

> Brewed from the local river water

Mine still is, tho the local river water is chlorinated and filtered.

> and possible to a much higher ABV soit could be watered down before
> serving.

Fantasy.

> Very cloudy (no clear glass pint containers)

Nothing to do with the container.

> and possible without the use of hops.

There are various types of beers.

> No real hygiene standards

Who needs standards ?

> and frequent yeast contamination.Each batch probably tasted different.

Fantasy.

[Peeler]

On Sun, 18 Feb 2024 19:36:23 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent

Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

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[The Natural Philosopher]

I think it was fairly low alcohol, as people are recorded to have drunk
gallons of the stuff at a time.

Hop free certainly in the middle ages, but I think there was drive to
get it consistent.

No reason to be cloudy, if left to settle

--
When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over
the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that
authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.

Frédéric Bastiat

[alan_m]

On 18/02/2024 08:36, Rod Speed wrote:

>> and frequent yeast contamination.Each batch probably tasted  different.
>
> Fantasy.

As its still a potential problem with modern brewing pray tell how they
avoided it in the past.

[alan_m]

In my experience a lot of people who home brew, wine or beer, attempt to
get the ABV too high and for me a beer with a decent taste without too
high an alcoholic kick is pleasant but as soon as the alcohol dominates
it becomes more unpleasant.

In the UK and for people of a certain age I think the experience with
home brewing beer comes from those kits which used to be on sale. They
often mimicked some of the mediocre brands of the time and produced a
very malty beer (which is style I don't particularly like).

[Paul]

On 2/18/2024 4:53 AM, alan_m wrote:
> On 18/02/2024 08:36, Rod Speed wrote:
>
>>> and frequent yeast contamination.Each batch probably tasted  different.
>>
>> Fantasy.
>
> As its still a potential problem with modern brewing pray tell how they avoided it in the past.
>

For home brew beer, you "decant" while serving.

This leaves any debris at the bottom of the bottle, in the bottle.

An experienced home-brewer, will serve your pint, decant slowly
(not tip the bottle over and let it "glug"), and then the silt
at the bottom, you don't serve that to your visitor.

Obviously, home brew beer is missing some steps.

Commercial beer is filtered and pasteurized.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/B9780128152584000135

"After maturation, most of beers are filtered and pasteurized. Such processes
aim to purify the beer, clarify, and reduce total microorganism count.
Filtration with diatomaceous earth (DE) and pasteurization (slow or fast)
are usually performed."

The "fast" refers to flash pasteurization. The commercial beer industry,
shares tech discoveries with the dairy industry.

Craft beer ? No idea. Craft beer ls like commercial beer,
but it's on a smaller scale, and "it's actually beer" :-)
A craft beer doesn't usually taste like commercial swill.
But commercial swill is very consistent. Exactly the same yellow piss
from one bottle to the next.

Paul

[alan_m]

On 18/02/2024 10:28, Paul wrote:

>
> Commercial beer is filtered and pasteurized.

Some of it is pasteurised in the UK especially by some of the USA
brewery owners but a lot of beer sold in the UK (under the general
banner of "real ale") is not pasteurised and is still a living and
changeable) product whilst in the cask.

> Craft beer ? No idea. Craft beer ls like commercial beer,
> but it's on a smaller scale, and "it's actually beer" :-)
> A craft beer doesn't usually taste like commercial swill.
> But commercial swill is very consistent. Exactly the same yellow piss
> from one bottle to the next.

+1

[SteveW]

On 18/02/2024 11:16, Jethro_uk wrote:

> When I home brewed, I settled on a "Canadian Blond" from Coopers. A kit
> that made 40 litres. They had quite a range.
>
> There were 3 home brew shops within a 30 minute drive back in 2017. One
> went bust in 2017 because he was a nob (as soon as I saw a brand new van
> in their car park, I knew they would go bust). One close in 2019 as the
> landlord wanted the premises back after 30 years and they wanted to
> retire. And the last and nearest went bust in 2020.
>
> All of them had the raw ingredients for the real nerd to make their own
> wort from scratch, etc, etc. I would have though such shops would be a
> source of fascination to the average uk.d-i-y-er

One shop on Gorsey Lane, in Warrington, used to be half plumbing and
half brewing - I always thought it was an invitation to make your own
copper still.

> I stopped brewing because at a single pint a day, it was a lot of faff.
> And then I removed that from my diet to enjoy spirits more :)
>
> For wine, we take 4 days to finish a bottle - we just have a small glass
> with dinner - so the faff of making your own isn't worth the effort.
>
> If we were more sociable, it might make more sense.
>
> Also I like cold, lager type beers. Which means an extra step of bottling
> (unless you go OTT and build a kegirator) whereas aley types can leave a
> barrel on a counter and just pour from that.

My son and his fellow students, recently made a variety of ciders and meads.

[Rod Speed]

alan_m <ju...@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote

> Rod Speed wrote

>>> and frequent yeast contamination.Each batch probably tasted different.

>> Fantasy.

> As its still a potential problem with modern brewing pray tell how they
> avoided it in the past.

That was a comment on the last sentence.

That doesnt happen even if you are careless about contamination.

[Rod Speed]

Paul <nos...@needed.invalid> wrote
> alan_m wrote

>> Rod Speed wrote

>>>> and frequent yeast contamination.

>>>> Each batch probably tasted different.

>>> Fantasy.

>> As its still a potential problem with modern brewing pray tell how they
>> avoided it in the past.

> For home brew beer, you "decant" while serving.

That's not what he is talking about, he's talking about
wild yeast getting into the fermenter either by no sterilising
the fermenter properly before using it, wild yeast getting
into the fermenter by during fermenting or with traditional
brewing by letting wild yeast get into the wort when before
adding the brewing yeast.

> This leaves any debris at the bottom of the bottle, in the bottle.

> An experienced home-brewer, will serve your pint, decantslowly (not tip
> the bottle over and let it "glug"), and thenthe silt at the bottom, you

> don't serve that to your visitor.

Some of the barmen ask you which way you want it poured.

And plenty of home brewers use kegs, not bottles.

> Obviously, home brew beer is missing some steps.

Normally only the filtration step when kegs are used.

> Commercial beer is filtered and pasteurized.

> https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/B9780128152584000135

> "After maturation, most of beers are filtered and pasteurized.
> Such processes
> aim to purify the beer, clarify, and reduce total microorganism
> count.
> Filtration with diatomaceous earth (DE) and pasteurization (slow
> or fast)
> are usually performed."

> The "fast" refers to flash pasteurization. The commercial beer industry,
> shares tech discoveries with the dairy industry.

> Craft beer ? No idea.

Normally they don't and that's why the barman asks you
how you want it poured from the bottle if they pour it.

> Craft beer ls like commercial beer,

Its actually a hybrid between homebrew and commercial beer.

> but it's on a smaller scale, and "it's actually beer" :-)
> A craft beer doesn't usually taste like commercial swill.

> But commercial swill is very consistent. Exactly thesame yellow piss

> from one bottle to the next.

Plenty of commercial beer is nothing like yellow.

[Rod Speed]

On Sun, 18 Feb 2024 22:16:21 +1100, Jethro_uk <jeth...@hotmailbin.com>

wrote:

> On Sun, 18 Feb 2024 10:16:53 +0000, alan_m wrote:
>

> When I home brewed, I settled on a "Canadian Blond" from Coopers. A kit
> that made 40 litres. They had quite a range.

32l actually.

> There were 3 home brew shops within a 30 minute drive back in 2017. One
> went bust in 2017 because he was a nob (as soon as I saw a brand new van
> in their car park, I knew they would go bust). One close in 2019 as the
> landlord wanted the premises back after 30 years and they wanted to
> retire. And the last and nearest went bust in 2020.

> All of them had the raw ingredients for the real nerd to make their own
> wort from scratch, etc, etc. I would have though such shops would be a
> source of fascination to the average uk.d-i-y-er

> I stopped brewing because at a single pint a day, it was a lot of faff.
> And then I removed that from my diet to enjoy spirits more :)

> For wine, we take 4 days to finish a bottle - we just have a small glass
> with dinner - so the faff of making your own isn't worth the effort.

> If we were more sociable, it might make more sense.

> Also I like cold, lager type beers. Which means an extra step of bottling
> (unless you go OTT and build a kegirator) whereas aley types can leave a
> barrel on a counter and just pour from that.

You can buy kegerators, They are a fridge with a number
of kegs in it with a number of beer taps like you see in a pub,
anywhere from 1-4 in a bar fridge sized fridge with the taps
on top.

[Peeler]

On Mon, 19 Feb 2024 04:47:02 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent

[Peeler]

On Mon, 19 Feb 2024 04:30:00 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent

Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--
Bod addressing senile Rodent Speed:
"Rod, you have a sick twisted mind. I suggest you stop your mindless
and totally irresponsible talk. Your mouth could get you into a lot of
trouble."
MID: <gfbb94...@mid.individual.net>

[Peeler]

On Mon, 19 Feb 2024 04:53:29 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent

Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

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[alan_m]

Rubbish. If a brewery has a yeast contamination the brew WILL taste
completely different, usually for the worse.

https://www.murphyandson.co.uk/ncyc/

[Rod Speed]

alan_m <ju...@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> alan_m <ju...@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote

>>>>> and frequent yeast contamination.Each batch probably tasted
>>>>> different.

>>>> Fantasy.

>>> As its still a potential problem with modern brewing pray tell how
>>> they avoided it in the past.

>> That was a comment on the last sentence.

>> That doesnt happen even if you are careless about contamination.

> Rubbish.

Fact.

> If a brewery has a yeast contamination

Easy to avoid wild yeast getting into the wort.

> the brew WILL taste completely different,

Wrong again.

> usually for the worse.

Have fun explaining why wine which usually is fermented
using wild yeast from the grape skins doesnt.

> https://www.murphyandson.co.uk/ncyc/

Says nothing about wild yeast contamination or what
happened with brewing the past contamination wise.

[Peeler]

On Mon, 19 Feb 2024 09:10:23 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent

Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--

Website (from 2007) dedicated to the nonagenarian and senile Australian
cretin's pathological trolling:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/rod-speed-faq.2973853/

[charles]

In article <uqvajl$1qomf$2...@dont-email.me>, Ottavio Caruso
<ottavio2006...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> You are, as usual, contradicting yourself. You cannot make wine at home.
> It wouldn't be wine, it would be grape juice. Sorry that you don't
> understand.

Fermented grape juice.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4t้ฒ
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

[Handsome Jack]

Joe <j...@jretrading.com> wrote:
>
> Give a man a fish...
> ...and he'll be back in the same place the next day waiting for *his*
> fish.
>

And if you only give him half a fish, he'll complain that you've imposed a 50% fish tax on him.

[JNugent]

On 19/02/2024 04:30, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
> Am 17/02/2024 um 18:32 schrieb JNugent:

> You are, as usual, contradicting yourself. You cannot make wine at home.
> It wouldn't be wine, it would be grape juice. Sorry that you don't
> understand.

As someone else pointed out, wine does not need to produced in a
factory. It has been a cottage industry product since the BC era.

[JNugent]

:-)

So true...

[Rod Speed]

On Mon, 19 Feb 2024 21:30:13 +1100, Ottavio Caruso

<ottavio2006...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Am 17/02/2024 um 18:32 schrieb JNugent:

> You are, as usual, contradicting yourself. You cannot make wine at home.

How odd that people have been doing that for millennia, quite literally.

> It wouldn't be wine, it would be grape juice.

Fantasy.

> Sorry that you don't understand.

You are the one with that problem.

[Peeler]

On Tue, 20 Feb 2024 06:15:18 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent

Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--

Pomegranate Bastard addressing the trolling senile cretin from Oz:
"I repeat, you are a complete and utter imbecile."
MID: <mpelth1engag7090p...@4ax.com>

[Tim Streater]

Yes. Enrico has forgotten that the Romans produced wine 2000 years ago.

--
If socialism helps the poor, why are the poor in socialist countries so much poorer than the poor in capitalist countries?

Mark

[Sam Plusnet]

On 19-Feb-24 14:19, Ottavio Caruso wrote:

> Am 19/02/2024 um 11:45 schrieb charles:
>> In article <uqvajl$1qomf$2...@dont-email.me>, Ottavio Caruso
>> <ottavio2006...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Am 17/02/2024 um 18:32 schrieb JNugent:
>>>> On 17/02/2024 03:26, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Am 16/02/2024 um 17:29 schrieb JNugent:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I believe that it is usual to use either grapes or substances derived
>>>>>> from that fruit.
>>>>>
>>>>> Wine is not grape juice.
>>>>
>>>> REALLY?
>>>>
>>>> Who knew?
>>>>
>>>> [Yes, that was mild sarcasm.]
>>>>
>>>>> You need to ferment the wort and you can't do it at home or in a
>>>>> cellar. You need climate-controlled large areas to do that and they
>>>>> cost millions.
>>>>
>>>> Nevertheless, plenty of people make wine at home. They must find it
>>>> palatable. I didn't.
>>
>>> You are, as usual, contradicting yourself. You cannot make wine at home.
>>> It wouldn't be wine, it would be grape juice. Sorry that you don't
>>> understand.

Strange thing to say. I wonder what point you are actually trying to
get across.

>> Fermented grape juice.
>>
>
> ... is not wine. But you probably think that Lambrini is Champagne.
>
Ah! The "If I don't think much of it, then it isn't X at all." approach.

Did the Romans make and drink wine? I doubt if they had climate-control
technology costing millions, but I dare say they muddled along.

--
Sam Plusnet

[Sam Plusnet]

There was wine even before the cottage was invented.

--
Sam Plusnet

[Spike]

Tim Streater <t...@streater.me.uk> wrote:
> "JNugent" <jennings&c...@mail.com> wrote:
>> On 19/02/2024 04:30, Ottavio Caruso wrote:

>>> You are, as usual, contradicting yourself. You cannot make wine at home.
>>> It wouldn't be wine, it would be grape juice. Sorry that you don't
>>> understand.

>> As someone else pointed out, wine does not need to produced in a
>> factory. It has been a cottage industry product since the BC era.

> Yes. Enrico has forgotten that the Romans produced wine 2000 years ago.

And in Yorkshire, to boot, thanks to (non-anthropogenic) changes in the
climate.

--
Spike

[Theo]

Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:
> Did the Romans make and drink wine? I doubt if they had climate-control
> technology costing millions, but I dare say they muddled along.

They did have climate control technology - it's called digging a hole. I
don't know what it would have cost to build a cellar in those days, but
there were also free ones in the shape of caves (hence 'cava').

As to the other winemaking stuff like oak barrels, can you do that in the
average flat?

Theo

[Sam Plusnet]

On 20-Feb-24 12:48, Theo wrote:
> Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:
>> Did the Romans make and drink wine? I doubt if they had climate-control
>> technology costing millions, but I dare say they muddled along.
>
> They did have climate control technology - it's called digging a hole. I
> don't know what it would have cost to build a cellar in those days, but
> there were also free ones in the shape of caves (hence 'cava').
>

Caves limit fluctuations in temperature, but they can't exactly
'control' it. They don't have thermostats.

--
Sam Plusnet

[The Natural Philosopher]

Well in a way they *do*.

Down about 20 feet or so below ground the ground temperature is the
average of the annual temperature range. There is so much ground all
around that it simply doesn't heat up or cool down significantly. In the
UK you can pretty much guarantee around 9°C ±0.5°C all year round, and
unless you go so deep that the geothermal energy starts to play a part,
that's what you will get.





--
Those who want slavery should have the grace to name it by its proper
name. They must face the full meaning of that which they are advocating
or condoning; the full, exact, specific meaning of collectivism, of its
logical implications, of the principles upon which it is based, and of
the ultimate consequences to which these principles will lead. They must
face it, then decide whether this is what they want or not.

Ayn Rand.