OT: Wise words of Lindzen

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The Natural Philosopher

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Sep 27, 2021, 8:22:08 AMSep 27
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Snow asserted that many literate people do not understand science, or
the scientific method. Yet they are offended when their ignorance is
demonstrated. Lindzen concludes:

“What C.P. Snow failed to note, I think, is that the group he describes
is actually aware of their scientific ignorance, and this leaves them
very insecure. This accounts for their need for simple narratives,
however wrong. It allows them to believe that they actually do
‘understand’ the science, and, as we see, they become arrogantly proud
of their alleged accomplishment. Of course, they forget that their
ignorance extends to understanding what science actually is. They forget
that the opposite of Science is ‘The Science’. The situation is
compounded when one comes to climate where most scientists are also
ignorant, but where their support for the narrative comforts the
non-scientists. On top of all this, I suspect that in a long period of
wellbeing, this elite feels the need to show that they too have met
challenges – even if the challenges are purely imaginary. This seems
particularly true for young people who are confronted with stories of
the courage of the ‘greatest generation’.

“One should note again that most ordinary people don’t have these problems.

“Our task is to show the relevant people the overall stupidity of this
issue rather than punching away at details. In focusing on the details,
we are merely trying to showcase our own specialties. My use of the word
‘merely’ is probably unjustified; the details can, in fact, be
scientifically important. However, we are not considering either our
target audience or the intrinsic absurdity of the issue. It is likely
that we have to capitalize on the insecurity of the educated elite and
make them look silly instead of superior and virtuous. We must remember
that they are impervious to real science unless it is reduced to their
level. When it is reduced to their level, it is imperative that we, at
least, retain veracity. Whether we are capable of effectively doing this
is an open question. However, at the least, we must stop treating the
proponents of climate as an existential threat, as worthy opponents. Do
not ascribe reasonableness to the other side’s position. It is not true,
and not even plausible.

“Of course, there remains the obvious fact that the proposed policies
ignore the agreed conclusion of even the IPCC that nothing done by the
US and the EU will have a significant impact on climate. In a rational
world, this would lead to the conclusion that the best policy would be
to increase the resilience of the Western World to climate change
regardless of its cause. Instead, the proposed policies would leave us
more vulnerable. This strongly suggests malicious intent. This essay
provides a curious possibility for this malicious intent. As I have
noted, most ordinary people (i.e., working middle-class people), are
sensible enough to not accept the notion that climate is so severe a
threat as to warrant policies that while monumentally disruptive,
destructive and expensive, will have imperceptible impact on climate
regardless of what one believes about climate. The self-anointed elite,
in response, assume the gnostic position of proclaiming exactly the
opposite. I use the word ‘proclaiming’ rather than ‘believing.’ Frankly,
I don’t think they actually believe what they are proclaiming –
especially when they buy mansions on the coast. Rather, they look
forward to the pain their policies will cause to a group that they
appear to despise. I still hope that this analysis is wrong, but, in
today’s peculiar world, it seems all too possible.”


--
It is the folly of too many to mistake the echo of a London coffee-house
for the voice of the kingdom.

Jonathan Swift

Max Demian

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Sep 27, 2021, 8:32:21 AMSep 27
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On 27/09/2021 13:22, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> Snow asserted that many literate people do not understand science, or
> the scientific method. Yet they are offended when their ignorance is
> demonstrated. Lindzen concludes:

I thought that they are proud of their ignorance as scientists are just
ignorant grease monkeys.

[snip]

> “Of course, there remains the obvious fact that the proposed policies
> ignore the agreed conclusion of even the IPCC that nothing done by the
> US and the EU will have a significant impact on climate. In a rational
> world, this would lead to the conclusion that the best policy would be
> to increase the resilience of the Western World to climate change
> regardless of its cause. Instead, the proposed policies would leave us
> more vulnerable. This strongly suggests malicious intent. This essay
> provides a curious possibility for this malicious intent. As I have
> noted, most ordinary people (i.e., working middle-class people), are
> sensible enough to not accept the notion that climate is so severe a
> threat as to warrant policies that while monumentally disruptive,
> destructive and expensive, will have imperceptible impact on climate
> regardless of what one believes about climate. The self-anointed elite,
> in response, assume the gnostic position of proclaiming exactly the
> opposite. I use the word ‘proclaiming’ rather than ‘believing.’ Frankly,
> I don’t think they actually believe what they are proclaiming –
> especially when they buy mansions on the coast. Rather, they look
> forward to the pain their policies will cause to a group that they
> appear to despise. I still hope that this analysis is wrong, but, in
> today’s peculiar world, it seems all too possible.”

We'll all go and live in Greenland, North Canada, Siberia; and
Antarctica when it's hot enough.

--
Max Demian

Roger Hayter

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Sep 27, 2021, 6:10:31 PMSep 27
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On 27 Sep 2021 at 13:22:05 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"
<t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> Snow asserted that many literate people do not understand science, or
> the scientific method. Yet they are offended when their ignorance is
> demonstrated. Lindzen concludes:

> snip conspiracy theory

I see his logic but isn't it scientific to take the obvious explanation why
they are putting so much effort into really marginal CO2 saving measures?

1. Currently politicians in Europe who don't wring their hands about climate
change will get voted ou;

2. European politicians therefore have to support global initiatives to lower
CO2;

3. They will have no traction in Africa, Asia etc. unless they demontrate
Europeans are doing their bit, however marginal, and suffering pain for the
Cause..


This is so much simpler than assuming all EU politicians (and many in UK and
US) are shape-shifting lizards/enemy agents/psychopathic haters of the white
race. Even Boris, who is the epitome of the opportunist.

--
Roger Hayter

John Brown

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Sep 27, 2021, 8:11:39 PMSep 27
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The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote

Agreed with all of that.

This essay
> provides a curious possibility for this malicious intent.

Can't buy that tho.

As I have
> noted, most ordinary people (i.e., working middle-class people), are
> sensible enough to not accept the notion that climate is so severe a
> threat as to warrant policies that while monumentally disruptive,
> destructive and expensive, will have imperceptible impact on climate
> regardless of what one believes about climate. The self-anointed elite, in
> response, assume the gnostic position of proclaiming exactly the opposite.
> I use the word ‘proclaiming’ rather than ‘believing.’ Frankly, I don’t
> think they actually believe what they are proclaiming – especially when
> they buy mansions on the coast.

Yes.

Rather, they look
> forward to the pain their policies will cause to a group that they appear
> to despise.

Don’t buy that either.

Rod Speed

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Sep 28, 2021, 2:37:42 AMSep 28
to
Roger Hayter <ro...@hayter.org> wrote
> The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote

>> Snow asserted that many literate people do not understand science, or
>> the scientific method. Yet they are offended when their ignorance is
>> demonstrated. Lindzen concludes:
>
>> snip conspiracy theory
>
> I see his logic but isn't it scientific to take the obvious explanation
> why
> they are putting so much effort into really marginal CO2 saving measures?
>
> 1. Currently politicians in Europe who don't wring their hands about
> climate
> change will get voted ou;
>
> 2. European politicians therefore have to support global initiatives to
> lower
> CO2;

Doesn’t explain why Boris is into it too.

Peeler

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Sep 28, 2021, 4:31:14 AMSep 28
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On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 16:37:33 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


> Doesn’t explain why Boris is into it too.

UK politics? Absolutely NONE of yours, senile Ozzie troll!

--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 87-year-old senile Australian
cretin's pathological trolling:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/rod-speed-faq.2973853/

Brian Gaff (Sofa)

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Sep 28, 2021, 4:44:02 AMSep 28
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If there is any doubt that we might be affecting the climate more than the
natural progression from snowball earth to hothouse earth, you would stop
digging the hole deeper than it would otherwise be.
Brian

--

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"The Natural Philosopher" <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:sisd1d$8n7$1...@dont-email.me...
> Snow asserted that many literate people do not understand science, or the
> scientific method. Yet they are offended when their ignorance is
> demonstrated. Lindzen concludes:
>
> "What C.P. Snow failed to note, I think, is that the group he describes is
> actually aware of their scientific ignorance, and this leaves them very
> insecure. This accounts for their need for simple narratives, however
> wrong. It allows them to believe that they actually do 'understand' the
> science, and, as we see, they become arrogantly proud of their alleged
> accomplishment. Of course, they forget that their ignorance extends to
> understanding what science actually is. They forget that the opposite of
> Science is 'The Science'. The situation is compounded when one comes to
> climate where most scientists are also ignorant, but where their support
> for the narrative comforts the non-scientists. On top of all this, I
> suspect that in a long period of wellbeing, this elite feels the need to
> show that they too have met challenges - even if the challenges are purely
> they are proclaiming - especially when they buy mansions on the coast.

Spike

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Sep 28, 2021, 4:52:27 AMSep 28
to
Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:

> If there is any doubt that we might be affecting the climate more than the
> natural progression from snowball earth to hothouse earth, you would stop
> digging the hole deeper than it would otherwise be.

There is evidence that we are about to commence a period of a Solar
Minimum, from about 2020 to 2053, much as in either the Little Ice Age
or the minima that followed it. The Central England temperature record,
which dates back to 1659, has shown a downturn in the 10-year running
average, since about 2010.


--
Spike

Rod Speed

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Sep 28, 2021, 5:35:06 AMSep 28
to
Brian Gaff (Sofa) <bri...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote

> If there is any doubt that we might be affecting the climate more than the
> natural progression from snowball earth to hothouse earth, you would stop
> digging the hole deeper than it would otherwise be.

It depends on the cost of doing that. It clearly makes no sense
to shut down all power generation using fossil fuels and ban
all ICEs because that would fuck the economy.

The Natural Philosopher

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Sep 28, 2021, 9:32:54 AMSep 28
to
And it looks like another la nina winter in the N hemisphere.


--
The New Left are the people they warned you about.

Peeler

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Sep 28, 2021, 10:37:17 AMSep 28
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On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 19:34:56 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--
John addressing the senile Australian pest:
"You are a complete idiot. But you make me larf. LOL"
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