How do I get 2 showers to work at same time off one combi boiler?
Ellen Rawlinson
I have two bathrooms, each of which is going to have a bath with
shower over. I want to be able to run both showers at once (as there
will be six people in the house), and my plumber thinks the only way
to do this is with electric showers. Does anyone know if there's a way
to run two showers (with thermostatic mixer valves) at the same time
off the one combi boiler I'll be putting in, or is my plumber right?
Thanks for your help,
Ellen
The Natural Philosopher
It is extrremely doubtful that a cheapo combi will have suffuicuinet
power to heat two showers going flat out simultaneously.
Combis I have expereinced struiggle to geat evben one, but then, I am
not a fan of combis
The solution is eiher a much bigger combi to cope with peak demands, or
a heat bank - which is basically a fancy name for a sort of hot water
tank- or a mains pressure boiler and pressurised hot water tank.
Cost and avaiable space will decide which is your best option.
What I tink is teh worts of all possible worlds ins a normal un
pressurised system with hot water cylinder and elkectric pumps to get
teh pressure.
I costed out various alternatives in my build, and space not being a
problem,. decided on mains pressure boiler and hot water tank. Even that
struggles with teh whole family here for holidays etc. I like a huge hot
bath, and that takes about 50% of a tank.
I susp[ect a BIG combi might have been cheaper, but even then two shower
max seems to be the order of the day.
I had little space for boilers but a lot for a water tank...so there ya go.
Dave Plowman (News)
It is certainly possible to get the same sort of flow at the same
temperatures as an electric shower from a combi.
--
*Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine.
Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Lobster
> In article <19dbfa92.05040...@posting.google.com>,
> Ellen Rawlinson <ellenra...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Hello! I'm rennovating a house that I intend to rent out. Essentially
>>I have two bathrooms, each of which is going to have a bath with
>>shower over. I want to be able to run both showers at once (as there
>>will be six people in the house), and my plumber thinks the only way
>>to do this is with electric showers. Does anyone know if there's a way
>>to run two showers (with thermostatic mixer valves) at the same time
>>off the one combi boiler I'll be putting in, or is my plumber right?
>
>
> It is certainly possible to get the same sort of flow at the same
> temperatures as an electric shower from a combi.
There is another advantage of fitting an electric shower in this
scenario... as you have no immersion heater, consider what happens if
your combi breaks down: your 6 tenants are without any form of central
heating or (more importantly) hot water. You'll be frantically trying
to get an emergency plumber to fix it; and what happens if he can't get
the parts for a couple of days? Answer - you'll be footing the bill
for alternative accomodation for your tenants.
Having an electric shower, completely independent of the combi, gives
you a bit of flexibility at least if the worst happens: at least the
tenants can still wash!
David
Doctor Evil
"Ellen Rawlinson" <ellenra...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:19dbfa92.05040...@posting.google.com...
> Hello! I'm rennovating a house
> that I intend to rent out. Essentially
> I have two bathrooms, each of which
> is going to have a bath with
> shower over. I want to be able to run
> both showers at once (as there
> will be six people in the house), and
> my plumber thinks the only way
> to do this is with electric showers.
Tell him to stick to drains.
> Does anyone know if there's a way
> to run two showers (with thermostatic
> mixer valves) at the same time
> off the one combi boiler I'll be putting in,
> or is my plumber right?
He is wrong. Divide and rule. Try two combi's. one doing one shower, one
doing the other. Combine the outlets for the baths to fill them quickly,
using non-return valves and a shock arrestor on the bath side on the
non-return valves.
Have one combi do upstairs heating and one do downstairs. Simple and cheap
and effective. Have each combi have its own gas supply right back to the
gas meter.
Check the mains water pressure and flow. Replace the mains stop cock with a
full-bore stop cock irrespective, and have dedicated 22mm cold supplies to
the combi's from the stop cock. Take the cold supply for each shower off
the combi supply just before the combi. Any pressure fluctuations on that
line will be equal on both cold and hot at the shower.
Combi's are cheap.
_________________________________________
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Doctor Evil
"The Natural Philosopher" <A@b.c> wrote in message
news:111305389...@doris.uk.clara.net...
> Ellen Rawlinson wrote:
>
> > Hello! I'm rennovating a house that I intend to rent out. Essentially
> > I have two bathrooms, each of which is going to have a bath with
> > shower over. I want to be able to run both showers at once (as there
> > will be six people in the house), and my plumber thinks the only way
> > to do this is with electric showers. Does anyone know if there's a way
> > to run two showers (with thermostatic mixer valves) at the same time
> > off the one combi boiler I'll be putting in, or is my plumber right?
>
> It is extrremely doubtful that a cheapo combi will have suffuicuinet
> power to heat two showers going flat out simultaneously.
>
> Combis I have expereinced struiggle to geat evben one, but then, I am
> not a fan of combis
>
> The solution is eiher a much bigger combi to cope with peak demands, or
> a heat bank - which is basically a fancy name for a sort of hot water
> tank-
It isn't.
> I costed out various alternatives in my build, and space not being a
> problem,. decided on mains pressure boiler
What is thsi?
Splodge
"Ellen Rawlinson" <ellenra...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:19dbfa92.05040...@posting.google.com...
> Does anyone know if there's a way
> to run two showers (with thermostatic mixer valves) at the same time
> off the one combi boiler I'll be putting in,
>
Hi Ellen,
We successfully run two showers at the same time from one combi. It's an
oil-fired Trianco unit.
Basically the flow rate reduces when both showers are in use, but they are
still perfectly usable.
As one of the other posters said, even when used like this the flow is still
comparable or better than many electric showers I've used.
One of the showers has a thermostatic mixer (the kids use this one), while
the other has a manual temperature/flow control. If you're using the
thermostatic one the only thing you notice is that the flow slows down a
bit. When using the non-thermostatic one you need to turn it a bit hotter
than normal to compensate.
They're both in use most mornings as eneryone tries to get freshened up and
out of the house at the same time!
Cheers
Splodge
Doctor Evil
"Lobster" <davidlobs...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:yxR5e.17246$S9....@newsfe5-gui.ntli.net...
> Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> > In article <19dbfa92.05040...@posting.google.com>,
> > Ellen Rawlinson <ellenra...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>Hello! I'm rennovating a house that I intend to rent out. Essentially
> >>I have two bathrooms, each of which is going to have a bath with
> >>shower over. I want to be able to run both showers at once (as there
> >>will be six people in the house), and my plumber thinks the only way
> >>to do this is with electric showers. Does anyone know if there's a way
> >>to run two showers (with thermostatic mixer valves) at the same time
> >>off the one combi boiler I'll be putting in, or is my plumber right?
> >
> >
> > It is certainly possible to get the same sort of flow at the same
> > temperatures as an electric shower from a combi.
>
> There is another advantage of fitting an electric shower in this
> scenario... as you have no immersion heater, consider what happens if
> your combi breaks down: your 6 tenants are without any form of central
> heating or (more importantly) hot water. You'll be frantically trying
> to get an emergency plumber to fix it; and what happens if he can't get
> the parts for a couple of days? Answer - you'll be footing the bill
> for alternative accomodation for your tenants.
So, you fit two combi's. Divide and rule. Simple cheap and easy, and at
least one shower will be working at any one time. See my other post on
this.
Peter Parry
Rawlinson) wrote:
>I want to be able to run both showers at once (as there
>will be six people in the house), and my plumber thinks the only way
>to do this is with electric showers.
A cheap combi will give you a twin shower effect on a par with that
achieved by using an aged and incontinent rat in place of the shower
head. Two electric showers (assuming you have a single domestic
supply to the house and need both to operate together and with other
appliances on) may have to be so small that their effect will be even
worse.
--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/
Doctor Evil
"Peter Parry" <pe...@wpp.ltd.uk> wrote in message
news:7r1g51dshvgb79834...@4ax.com...
So, not a constructive post. Doom and gloom which we all know anyway.
:::Jerry::::
"Doctor Evil" <Min...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:4258...@news.usenetzone.com...
>
<snip>
>
> He is wrong. Divide and rule. Try two combi's. one doing one shower,
one
> doing the other. Combine the outlets for the baths to fill them
quickly,
> using non-return valves and a shock arrestor on the bath side on the
> non-return valves.
>
> Have one combi do upstairs heating and one do downstairs. Simple and
cheap
> and effective. Have each combi have its own gas supply right back
to the
> gas meter.
>
> Check the mains water pressure and flow. Replace the mains stop
cock with a
> full-bore stop cock irrespective, and have dedicated 22mm cold
supplies to
> the combi's from the stop cock. Take the cold supply for each
shower off
> the combi supply just before the combi. Any pressure fluctuations
on that
> line will be equal on both cold and hot at the shower.
>
> Combi's are cheap.
>
But the work to install all of the above isn't.....
Jim Alexander
"Ellen Rawlinson" <ellenra...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:19dbfa92.05040...@posting.google.com...
electric showers), adequacy of cold water pressure, adequacy of gas supply
at boiler for large combi or (whispering) 2 combis.
But to respond to your specific question it may be helpful to look at
electrical shower outputs. These are commonly 8.5kW, 9.5kW or 10.5kW. A
combi is 24kW, 28kW or 35kW electrical equivalent. So in heating terms a
combi produces more hot water than 2 electric showers. If there is good
mains pressure it should be easy to equitably share the flow by plumbing the
showers in small enough bore. IME the Screwfix bar mixer works well across
a range of pressures. Of course you have got to stop the other bath
grabbing too much water as well. Its really a design problem which is
probably why the plumber is struggling. He may also know a friendly
electrician because for 2 electric showers you will definately need a good
one. If there is poor cold pressure you are stuffed either way.
Anyway its rented accomodation, has to be safe but who says it has to be
good? Or have matters improved since I was in rented accom....
Jim A
Doctor Evil
":::Jerry::::" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:42580d7b$0$882$892e...@authen.white.readfreenews.net...
Combi's are one box solutions, the simplest and easiest method of
installation. This place is to have 6 people showering in the morning. Say
the average shower is 100 litres of hot water. That is a 600 litres of
water requiring storage. A hell of a lot. Even 500 litres is a hell of a
lot, and expensive to provide storage for, with maybe the floor requiring
strengthening. Only combi's with their infinitely continuous supply of hot
water can provide the solution to this problem economically. Two combi's.
One for each shower, join the outlets for the baths. Everyone satisfied, no
digruntled tenants, no running out of hot water, and also backup. If one
combi goes down, one will work giving a shower. So they will have to wait
longer for a shower for a few days, but at least there will be hot water and
heat in the house.
Doctor Evil
"Jim Alexander" <ji...@nospam.please> wrote in message
news:42580f61$1...@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
>
> "Ellen Rawlinson" <ellenra...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:19dbfa92.05040...@posting.google.com...
> > Hello! I'm rennovating a house that I intend to rent out. Essentially
> > I have two bathrooms, each of which is going to have a bath with
> > shower over. I want to be able to run both showers at once (as there
> > will be six people in the house), and my plumber thinks the only way
> > to do this is with electric showers. Does anyone know if there's a way
> > to run two showers (with thermostatic mixer valves) at the same time
> > off the one combi boiler I'll be putting in, or is my plumber right?
> >
> There are a lot of issues here regarding adequacy of electric supply (for
2
> electric showers), adequacy of cold water pressure, adequacy of gas supply
> at boiler for large combi or (whispering) 2 combis.
A domestic supply gas supply can provide 212 cu foot an hour, about 62kW
input. Two properly sized combi's can do the job no problem, with the
average around 27kW.
This problem is crying out for two combi's as the solution.
Jim Alexander
> news:42580f61$1...@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
>>
>> "Ellen Rawlinson" <ellenra...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:19dbfa92.05040...@posting.google.com...
>> > Hello! I'm rennovating a house that I intend to rent out. Essentially
>> > I have two bathrooms, each of which is going to have a bath with
>> > shower over. I want to be able to run both showers at once (as there
>> > will be six people in the house), and my plumber thinks the only way
>> > to do this is with electric showers. Does anyone know if there's a way
>> > to run two showers (with thermostatic mixer valves) at the same time
>> > off the one combi boiler I'll be putting in, or is my plumber right?
>> >
>> There are a lot of issues here regarding adequacy of electric supply (for
> 2
>> electric showers), adequacy of cold water pressure, adequacy of gas
>> supply
>> at boiler for large combi or (whispering) 2 combis.
>
> A domestic supply gas supply can provide 212 cu foot an hour, about 62kW
> input. Two properly sized combi's can do the job no problem, with the
> average around 27kW.
>
> This problem is crying out for two combi's as the solution.
>
suggestion out of hand, neither would I advocate it. Although there is
redundancy and you could employ smaller cheaper combis, two maintenance
contracts would be required. That's a business case issue for the renter.
As I said its really a design issue. There is more than one solution
depending on the weight given to various factors.
Jim A
wrho...@cox.net
usually comes out at lower psi than cold. Now, call your water
supplier, ask them what is the psi to the water meter at your rental.
If psi is 60 but 20 feet from the meter coming from your hose spigut,
the psi is 40, than dig up water meter and take out old pipe.
:::Jerry::::
What happens if either the gas or power fail, result no hot water
unlike with a storage tank, OK there is only a limited supply but
every one will be able to wash using flannel, soap and a bowl....
I also suspect that after the cost of running two water supplies from
the company valve, two gas supplies from the meter together with all
the extra CH/HW pipes one could have installed a large boiler and
storage tank.
:::Jerry::::
62kW
> input. Two properly sized combi's can do the job no problem, with
the
> average around 27kW.
>
> This problem is crying out for two combi's as the solution.
>
It's also crying out from an up rated electricity supply and electric
showers, and if there is going to be more than one kitchen with full
cooking facilities then that alone will probably mean that the cost of
having the electric intake up rated has already been budgeted for.
It's also crying out for a storage tank so that there is at least some
hot water if there is a major breakdown of either boiler(s) or power,
also a storage tank will allow water to be heated in an emergency by
electricity (although expencive it will be cheaper than pitting up to
six tenants into a Hotel for how ever long.
This is not a clear cut plumbing decision, as someone else has said,
it's a planning / business decision as well.
James Salisbury
"Jim Alexander" <ji...@nospam.please> wrote in message
>
> "Doctor Evil" <Min...@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:4258...@news.usenetzone.com...
>>
>> "Jim Alexander" <ji...@nospam.please> wrote in message
>> news:42580f61$1...@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
>>>
>>> "Ellen Rawlinson" <ellenra...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:19dbfa92.05040...@posting.google.com...
>>> > Hello! I'm rennovating a house that I intend to rent out. Essentially
>>> > I have two bathrooms, each of which is going to have a bath with
>>> > shower over. I want to be able to run both showers at once (as there
>>> > will be six people in the house), and my plumber thinks the only way
>>> > to do this is with electric showers. Does anyone know if there's a way
>>> > to run two showers (with thermostatic mixer valves) at the same time
>>> > off the one combi boiler I'll be putting in, or is my plumber right?
>>> >
>>> There are a lot of issues here regarding adequacy of electric supply
>>> (for
>> 2
>>> electric showers), adequacy of cold water pressure, adequacy of gas
>>> supply
>>> at boiler for large combi or (whispering) 2 combis.
>>
>> A domestic supply gas supply can provide 212 cu foot an hour, about 62kW
>> input. Two properly sized combi's can do the job no problem, with the
>> average around 27kW.
>>
You could, with a bit of plumbing have an unvented cylinder for the showers
and baths, heated from the heating loop output of the combi, and just use
the DHW output of the combi for kitchens. That way you can have lots of hot
water for the baths and showers and still use the combi. Small note you will
need a pressure ballanced type of shower mixer.
Look at
http://www.discountedheating.co.uk/shop/acatalog/Range_tribune_Direct_Cylinder.html
for cylinders a 210L or 250L one. If the mains cold water flow is poor then
you could have a conventional hotwater cylinder, aagin heated by the heating
loop of the combi.
Point to remember, when the combi is heating the Domestic hot water output,
it will not be heating the house, heating a bath can take some time and the
house may get cold. A mains pressure hot water cylinder will need anual
serviceing, and a large notice DO NOT TAMPER.
Pete C
Rawlinson) wrote:
Hi,
A 'storage combi' that has an integral tank will run 2 showers OK as
long as they are not running drencher type shower heads.
Have a look at something like an Alpha CB 50 (IIRC).
cheers,
Pete.
Doctor Evil
If the power fails any backup electic will fail too.
> OK there is only a limited supply but
> every one will be able to wash using
> flannel, soap and a bowl....
>
> I also suspect that after the cost of running two water supplies from
> the company valve, two gas supplies from the meter together with all
> the extra CH/HW pipes one could have installed a large boiler and
> storage tank.
You suspect wrongly. Do you know how big a 500-600 litre cylinder is? And
how much they cost? And how long it takes to recover heat?
Doctor Evil
"Jim Alexander" <ji...@nospam.please> wrote in message
Two boiers side by side is not X 2 the cost. A deal can be stuck.
> That's a business case issue for the renter.
> As I said its really a design issue. There is
> more than one solution
> depending on the weight given to various factors.
And have not highlighted any or added any value or suggestions.
Doctor Evil
>
> "Doctor Evil" <Min...@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:4258...@news.usenetzone.com...
> >
> <snip>
> >
> > A domestic supply gas supply can provide 212 cu foot an hour, about
> 62kW
> > input. Two properly sized combi's can do the job no problem, with
> the
> > average around 27kW.
> >
> > This problem is crying out for two combi's as the solution.
> >
>
> It's also crying out from an up rated
> electricity supply and electric
> showers,
It is not. The performance of eclectic is abysmal, adding to greenhouses
gasses and costing 4 times as much to run.
< snip half-baked babble>
Jim Alexander
"Doctor Evil" <Min...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:4258...@news.usenetzone.com...
>
> "Jim Alexander" <ji...@nospam.please> wrote in message
>>
>> In this case, provided the cold supply is
>> adequate I wouldn't dismiss the
>> suggestion out of hand, neither would
>> I advocate it. Although there is
>> redundancy and you could employ smaller
>> cheaper combis, two maintenance
>> contracts would be required.
>
> Two boiers side by side is not X 2 the cost. A deal can be stuck.
>
>> That's a business case issue for the renter.
>> As I said its really a design issue. There is
>> more than one solution
>> depending on the weight given to various factors.
>
> And have not highlighted any or added any value or suggestions.
>
from the OP perhaps I'll comment and suggest further. But I do agree that
large storage cylinders are useless for multi-occupation.
Jim A
Peter Parry
wrote:
>Two boiers side by side is not X 2 the cost.
Probably more than that. The problem of mounting two Romanian
landowners side by side on the wall is not inconsiderable and
maintenance would be real headache.
>A deal can be stuck.
Undoubtedly, but which Boier would you stick it on?
Doctor Evil
"Jim Alexander" <ji...@nospam.please> wrote in message
That's better.
John Stumbles
A 24kW combi should give you two showers at least as good as the
highest-powered (10.5kW) electric showers. In the depths of winter and
early spring when the incoming water is cold that means you won't get a
very good flow of water at a comfortably hot temperature, so make sure
the bath/shower rooms are warm because otherwise it'll be a miserable
experience showering.
However if the place is for rental then as others have pointed out you
really need to consider what will happen _when_ the boiler breaks down
(they all do at some time or other). A stored water system (conventional
gravity fed, unvented or thermal store) will allow you the option of
electric backup heating for water, though not for space heating. It's
anathema (not to say heresy) to admit it but A Certain Person's
suggestion of 2 combis for redundancy has some merit, though you need a
foolproof way of knowing when one of them has failed otherwise you still
only hear about it when they've both gone and there's no hot water or
heating and you have to call out a heating engineer at emergency
call-out rates. (And you can't rely on tenants telling you that one of
the showers has packed up or there's no heating in certain rooms when
you really do want to know this: ask any landlord - tenants aren't like
that!)
:::Jerry::::
"Doctor Evil" <Min...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:4258...@news.usenetzone.com...
>
> ":::Jerry::::" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
> >
<snip>
> >
> > What happens if either the gas or power
> > fail, result no hot water unlike with a storage
> > tank,
>
> If the power fails any backup electic will fail too.
Oh, right, so the power fails and 250 lts (or more) of hot water
instantly becomes cold water does it ? You wanker ! :~(
>
> > OK there is only a limited supply but
> > every one will be able to wash using
> > flannel, soap and a bowl....
> >
> > I also suspect that after the cost of running two water supplies
from
> > the company valve, two gas supplies from the meter together with
all
> > the extra CH/HW pipes one could have installed a large boiler and
> > storage tank.
>
> You suspect wrongly. Do you know how big a 500-600 litre cylinder
is? And
> how much they cost? And how long it takes to recover heat?
>
You clueless idiot.
:::Jerry::::
>
> Two boiers side by side is not X 2 the cost. A deal can be stuck.
>
Bollox, buying two combies will not mean you can haggle on price.
> > That's a business case issue for the renter.
> > As I said its really a design issue. There is
> > more than one solution
> > depending on the weight given to various factors.
>
> And have not highlighted any or added any value or suggestions.
>
Nor have you, other than your pet conbi solution whilst ignoring the
real issues.
:::Jerry::::
"Doctor Evil" <Min...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:4258...@news.usenetzone.com...
>
> ":::Jerry::::" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:42583113$1$883$892e...@authen.white.readfreenews.net...
> >
> > "Doctor Evil" <Min...@nospam.com> wrote in message
> > news:4258...@news.usenetzone.com...
> > >
> > <snip>
> > >
> > > A domestic supply gas supply can provide 212 cu foot an hour,
about
> > 62kW
> > > input. Two properly sized combi's can do the job no problem,
with
> > the
> > > average around 27kW.
> > >
> > > This problem is crying out for two combi's as the solution.
> > >
> >
> > It's also crying out from an up rated
> > electricity supply and electric
> > showers,
>
> It is not. The performance of eclectic is abysmal, adding to
greenhouses
> gasses and costing 4 times as much to run.
>
> < snip half-baked babble>
>
You didn't snip the half-baked babble, you left your ignorant
uninformed clap-trap in.
What is one of the main fuels used now for the generation of
electricity, clue, it's the same fuel that heats the water in a
combi....
DIMM, IMM, Drivel, Dr Evil, what ever you call yourself there is one
thing that is a constant, you are an ignorant little wanker.
Doctor Evil
"James Salisbury" <jamessali...@salisbury.org.uk> wrote in message
news:42584007$0$295$cc9e...@news-text.dial.pipex.com...
This requires 500-600 litres of storage for six people showering with two
showers. An unvented cylinder of that size will be well north of Ł1000.
Two combi's can be bought for far less than the price of one cylinder alone,
which will do a better job never running out of hot water.
Have you seen the size of 600 litre cylinder? Unvented cylinders require an
annual service.
Doctor Evil
>
> "Doctor Evil" <Min...@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:4258...@news.usenetzone.com...
> >
> > ":::Jerry::::" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
> > news:42583113$1$883$892e...@authen.white.readfreenews.net...
> > >
> > > "Doctor Evil" <Min...@nospam.com> wrote in message
> > > news:4258...@news.usenetzone.com...
> > > >
> > > <snip>
> > > >
> > > > A domestic supply gas supply can provide 212 cu foot an hour,
> about
> > > 62kW
> > > > input. Two properly sized combi's can do the job no problem,
> with
> > > the
> > > > average around 27kW.
> > > >
> > > > This problem is crying out for two combi's as the solution.
> > > >
> > >
> > > It's also crying out from an up rated
> > > electricity supply and electric
> > > showers,
> >
> > abysmal, adding to greenhouse
> > gasses and costing 4 times as much to run.
> >
> > < snip half-baked babble>
>
> You didn't snip the half-baked babble,
I did look above. You can get lesson to improve powers of focus.
:::Jerry::::
> ":::Jerry::::" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:4258fc65$1$73820$892e...@authen.white.readfreenews.net...
> > "Doctor Evil" <Min...@nospam.com> wrote in message
> > news:4258...@news.usenetzone.com...
> > >
> > >
> > > It is not. The performance of electric is
> > > abysmal, adding to greenhouse
> > > gasses and costing 4 times as much to run.
> > >
> > > < snip half-baked babble>
> >
> > You didn't snip the half-baked babble,
>
> I did look above. You can get lesson to improve powers of focus.
>
What is one of the main fuels used now for the generation of
nthng...@netscape.net
Just a small point about the combi solution. Could Dr evil tell me what
combi boilers could be bought as economically as he suggests. The only
combi boilers I have seen ,that meet current regs, are condensing
boilers which start around the £800 quid mark. Genuine question as
someone I know needs a new combi.
Dave Plowman (News)
:::Jerry:::: <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> > Two boiers side by side is not X 2 the cost. A deal can be stuck.
> >
> Bollox, buying two combies will not mean you can haggle on price.
I'm inclined to agree - especially if they're combined in such a way as
IMM suggests. Most plumbers are likely to laugh at doing it that way.
And since IMM thinks system boilers are the way forward because of easy
installation, wonder why he suddenly needs to complicate matters?
And BTW, if it's such a brilliant idea, why isn't there a system boiler
made in just this fashion?
--
*Why don't you ever see the headline "Psychic Wins Lottery"?
Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Dave Plowman (News)
Doctor Evil <Min...@nospam.com> wrote:
> er.html
> > for cylinders a 210L or 250L one. If the mains cold water flow is poor
> then
> > you could have a conventional hotwater cylinder, aagin heated by the
> heating
> > loop of the combi.
> This requires 500-600 litres of storage for six people showering with
> two showers. An unvented cylinder of that size will be well north of
> Ł1000. Two combi's can be bought for far less than the price of one
> cylinder alone, which will do a better job never running out of hot
> water.
> Have you seen the size of 600 litre cylinder? Unvented cylinders
> require an annual service.
More figures plucked from the air.
IMM seems to have forgotten about fast recovery cylinders and that the
chances of all six people showering directly one after the other remote.
They're just as likely to get dry and dressed before the next one uses the
shower. And some will prefer to shower in the evening.
--
*Speak softly and carry a cellular phone *
James Salisbury
"Ellen Rawlinson" <ellenra...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:19dbfa92.05040...@posting.google.com...
> Hello! I'm rennovating a house that I intend to rent out. Essentially
> I have two bathrooms, each of which is going to have a bath with
> shower over. I want to be able to run both showers at once (as there
> will be six people in the house), and my plumber thinks the only way
> to do this is with electric showers. Does anyone know if there's a way
> to run two showers (with thermostatic mixer valves) at the same time
> off the one combi boiler I'll be putting in, or is my plumber right?
>
> Ellen
If you want / need to go the stored hot water route, have a chat with these
people http://rangecylinders.co.uk/
Owain
> However if the place is for rental then as others have pointed out you
> really need to consider what will happen _when_ the boiler breaks down
> (they all do at some time or other). A stored water system (conventional
> gravity fed, unvented or thermal store) will allow you the option of
> electric backup heating for water, though not for space heating.
It also provides stored hot water in the event of a mains electricity or
water failure. Even if the cylinder hasn't fully reheated, it will be
tepidly warmer than the cold mains. Although rare, extended water and
electricity failures do occur.
Owain
Doctor Evil
"John Stumbles" <postm...@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
news:%866e.248$ff5...@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net...
> Peter Parry wrote:
> > On 9 Apr 2005 06:14:04 -0700, ellenra...@hotmail.com (Ellen
> > Rawlinson) wrote:
> >
> >>I want to be able to run both showers at once (as there
> >>will be six people in the house), and my plumber thinks the only way
> >>to do this is with electric showers.
> >
> > A cheap combi will give you a twin shower effect on a par with that
> > achieved by using an aged and incontinent rat in place of the shower
> > head. Two electric showers (assuming you have a single domestic
> > supply to the house and need both to operate together and with other
> > appliances on) may have to be so small that their effect will be even
> > worse.
>
> A 24kW combi should give you two
> showers at least as good as the
> highest-powered (10.5kW) electric
> showers. In the depths of winter and
> early spring when the incoming water
> is cold that means you won't get a
> very good flow of water at a comfortably
> hot temperature, so make sure
> the bath/shower rooms are warm because
> otherwise it'll be a miserable
> experience showering.
Electric showers are made by Satan.
> However if the place is for rental then
> as others have pointed out you
> really need to consider what will
> happen _when_ the boiler breaks down
> (they all do at some time or other). A
> stored water system (conventional
> gravity fed, unvented or thermal store)
> will allow you the option of
> electric backup heating for water,
> though not for space heating.
Wrong. An integrated thermal store can have electric backup for space
heating. Also the stored water, unvented cylinder or thermal store, will
have to be in a very large cylinder, which is quite expensive to buy, never
mind fit.
> anathema (not to say heresy) to admit
> it but A Certain Person's suggestion of
> 2 combis for redundancy has some merit,
For for only redundancy. It will deliver the requirements more effectively
and cheaper than any other method.
> though you need a foolproof way
> of knowing when one of them has
> failed otherwise you still only hear
> about it when they've both gone and
> there's no hot water or heating and
> you have to call out a heating engineer
> at emergency call-out rates. (And you
> can't rely on tenants telling you that one of
> the showers has packed up or there's
> no heating in certain rooms when
> you really do want to know this: ask
> any landlord - tenants aren't like
> that!)
You should read. One combi does one shower one does the other. If one
doesn't work with 6 people in the morning they will soon let you know.
Doctor Evil
> You clueless idiot.
..............another half-wit enters the ring.....he has been taking
Plowman pills.
Doctor Evil
>
> "Doctor Evil" <Min...@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:4259...@news.usenetzone.com...
> > ":::Jerry::::" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
> > news:4258fc65$1$73820$892e...@authen.white.readfreenews.net...
> > > "Doctor Evil" <Min...@nospam.com> wrote in message
> > > news:4258...@news.usenetzone.com...
> > > >
> <snip>
> > > >
> > > > It is not. The performance of electric is
> > > > abysmal, adding to greenhouse
> > > > gasses and costing 4 times as much to run.
> > > >
> > > > < snip half-baked babble>
> > >
> > > You didn't snip the half-baked babble,
> >
> > I did look above. You can get lesson to improve powers of focus.
>
> What
< snip lunacy >
Doctor Evil
"Dave Plowman (News)" <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4d5968c...@davenoise.co.uk...
> > This requires 500-600 litres of storage
> > for six people showering with
> > two showers. An unvented cylinder of
> > that size will be well north of
> > Ł1000. Two combi's can be bought
> > for far less than the price of one
> > cylinder alone, which will do a better
> > job never running out of hot water.
>
> > Have you seen the size of 600 litre
> > cylinder? Unvented cylinders
> > require an annual service.
....after polishing his cabers he is revitalised and has think...on he
goes...
> More figures plucked from the air.
..............he has been plucking cabers from the air........and some have
hit his bonce on the way down......ruining his tam-o-shanter.... I snipped
the rest of the incoherence for your convenience.....
Doctor Evil
<nthng...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:1113136600....@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>>>
Just a small point about the combi solution. Could Dr evil tell me what
combi boilers could be bought as economically as he suggests. The only
combi boilers I have seen ,that meet current regs, are condensing
boilers which start around the £800 quid mark. Genuine question as
someone I know needs a new combi.
<<<<
http://www.discountedheating.co.uk/shop/acatalog/Biasi_Riva_Compact_Condensi
ng_Combi.html
Better deals if you look around.
Doctor Evil
"Owain" <owain...@stirlingcity.coo.uk> wrote in message
news:111314419...@doris.uk.clara.net...
> John Stumbles wrote:
> > However if the place is for rental then as others have pointed out you
> > really need to consider what will happen _when_ the boiler breaks down
> > (they all do at some time or other). A stored water system (conventional
> > gravity fed, unvented or thermal store) will allow you the option of
> > electric backup heating for water, though not for space heating.
>
> It also provides stored hot water in the event of a mains electricity or
> water failure. Even if the cylinder hasn't fully reheated, it will be
> tepidly warmer than the cold mains.
Are you serious? Six people can shower on that?
:::Jerry::::
>
<snip>
>
> ..............another half-wit enters the ring.....
Yes, you do seem to stick your ignorant arse into too many threads on
this group whilst suffering from verbal diarrhoea...
:::Jerry::::
"Doctor Evil" <Min...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:4259...@news.usenetzone.com...
>
> ":::Jerry::::" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:425907be$0$56367$892e...@authen.white.readfreenews.net...
> >
> > "Doctor Evil" <Min...@nospam.com> wrote in message
> > news:4259...@news.usenetzone.com...
> > > ":::Jerry::::" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
> > > news:4258fc65$1$73820$892e...@authen.white.readfreenews.net...
> > > > "Doctor Evil" <Min...@nospam.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:4258...@news.usenetzone.com...
> > > > >
> > <snip>
> > > > >
> > > > > It is not. The performance of electric is
> > > > > abysmal, adding to greenhouse
> > > > > gasses and costing 4 times as much to run.
> > > > >
> > > > > < snip half-baked babble>
> > > >
> > > > You didn't snip the half-baked babble,
> > >
> > > I did look above. You can get lesson to improve powers of focus.
> >
> > What
>
> < snip lunacy >
>
What is one of the main fuels used now for the generation of
Doctor Evil
>
> "Doctor Evil" <Min...@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:4259...@news.usenetzone.com...
> >
> <snip>
> >
> > ..............another half-wit enters the ring.....
>
> Yes,
..............another half-wit enters the ring.....
_________________________________________
Stefek Zaba
>
> I did look above. You can get lesson to improve powers of focus.
>
omg - has Dr Evil been consorting with the Scientologists now!? It could
explain quite a lot...
Owain
>>>... A stored water system (conventional gravity fed, unvented or thermal store)
>>water failure. Even if the cylinder hasn't fully reheated, it will be
>>tepidly warmer than the cold mains.
> Are you serious? Six people can shower on that?
They can wash their sweaty bits with considerably greater comfort and
amenity than using cold water from the mains when your combis are
sitting being useless.
Owain
Doctor Evil
> Doctor Evil wrote:
..Owain. Owain, Owain we go
..he gives us info we don't want to know
..the info is so poor tis true
..so how does this garbage affect you?
..well take no heed of babble and drool
..as instantly you will recognise a fool
..instictively you will spy
..in newsgroups with DIY
..attempting wisdom the fools will try
..so be very watchful of misadvice
..so don't give these half-wits a roll of the dice.
Doctor Evil
> Doctor Evil wrote:
..Owain. Owain, Owain we go
..he gives us info we don't want to know
..the info is so poor tis true
..so how does this garbage affect you?
..well take no heed of babble and drool
..as instantly you will recognise a fool
..instictively you will spy
..in newsgroups with DIY
..attempting wisdom the fools will try
..so be very watchful of misadvice
..so don't give these half-wits a roll of the dice.
_________________________________________
:::Jerry::::
"Stefek Zaba" <s-nilne...@zaba.com> wrote in message
news:Ua-dnaHVd89...@pipex.net...
If he has been prying it could explain why Gods reprehensive on Earth
die of exhaustion !
With apologies to all members of the RC faith.
Dave Plowman (News)
Doctor Evil <Min...@nospam.com> wrote:
> ..Owain. Owain, Owain we go
> ..he gives us info we don't want to know
> ..the info is so poor tis true
> ..so how does this garbage affect you?
> ..well take no heed of babble and drool
> ..as instantly you will recognise a fool
> ..instictively you will spy
> ..in newsgroups with DIY
> ..attempting wisdom the fools will try
> ..so be very watchful of misadvice
> ..so don't give these half-wits a roll of the dice.
Just don't give up your day job. What is it by the way?
Not a poet. Not an electrician. Not a heating engineer. Not a plumber - or
any kind of trades person. Not in broadcasting. So perhaps a stores person
in a PM who devourers catalogues?
--
*If all is not lost, where the hell is it?
The Natural Philosopher
> On 9 Apr 2005 06:14:04 -0700, ellenra...@hotmail.com (Ellen
> Rawlinson) wrote:
>
>
>>I want to be able to run both showers at once (as there
>>will be six people in the house), and my plumber thinks the only way
>>to do this is with electric showers.
>
>
> A cheap combi will give you a twin shower effect on a par with that
> achieved by using an aged and incontinent rat in place of the shower
> head. Two electric showers (assuming you have a single domestic
> supply to the house and need both to operate together and with other
> appliances on) may have to be so small that their effect will be even
> worse.
>
>
At last, the facts!
The Natural Philosopher
>
> Just a small point about the combi solution. Could Dr evil tell me what
> combi boilers could be bought as economically as he suggests.
Dr Evil can tell you, but it wonb't be real or practical. Or to regs.
:::Jerry::::
>
> > ..so be very watchful of misadvice
> > ..so don't give these half-wits a roll of the dice.
>
> Just don't give up your day job. What is it by the way?
>
> Not a poet. Not an electrician. Not a heating engineer. Not a
plumber - or
> any kind of trades person. Not in broadcasting. So perhaps a stores
person
> in a PM who devourers catalogues?
>
Nah, he 'works' for Job Centre Plus, he tests their job search
database....
Doctor Evil
"The Natural Philosopher" <A@b.c> wrote in message
news:111318759...@dyke.uk.clara.net...
..the facts! the facts! he cries out loud
..of his revelations we should all be proud
..electric showers are akin to peeing
..of these facts we are all now seeing
..two combi's is the favoured choice
..a solution our snotty uni man did not voice
..the combi's shower all for ever more
..with no large cylinders in which to store
..the cylinders cost a pretty penny
..the two combi's cost hardly any
..experience of these matters of his is slight
..taking notice of him the silly they might.
..cheap showers are there for ever more
..by use two combi's and not a cylinder water store.
Doctor Evil
"The Natural Philosopher" <A@b.c> wrote in message
news:111318759...@dyke.uk.clara.net...
..the facts! the facts! he cries out loud
..of his revelations we should all be proud
..electric showers are akin to peeing
..of these facts we are all now seeing
..two combi's is the favoured choice
..a solution our snotty uni man did not voice
..the combi's shower all for ever more
..with no large cylinders in which to store
..the cylinders cost a pretty penny
..the two combi's cost hardly any
..experience of these matters of his is slight
..taking notice of him the silly they might.
..cheap showers are there for ever more
..by using two combi's, not a cylinder water store.