Loose screws

[Scion]

No, I'm not referring to you lot ;-)

A friend has metal-framed windows, aluminium I think, the screws for one
window handle are loose because the thread on the window is worn. Even
though there is some 'bite', the screws don't tighten properly, they carry
on going round and round IYSWIM.

What's the best way of dealing with this - using the same screws and some
sort of compound to hold them in place, or using larger screws and
enlarging the holes? Or something else? The solution must be quite robust
as the window is opened and closed quite a lot, and there are children
involved!

If it makes a difference, the screws are very short, fat self-tappers.

[JimK]

I'd try threadlocking compound first.

Jim K

[Andy Burns]

Scion wrote:
> the screws don't tighten properly, they carry
> on going round and round

For PVCu frames, you can get "repair screws" for that situation, a bit
of a thicker shank and different pitch. No idea if those would suit
aluminium, or if not, whether specific repair screws for aluminium
frames are available ...

https://www.upvc-hardware.co.uk/screws-accessories

[Scion]

JimK put finger to keyboard:

> I'd try threadlocking compound first.
>
> Jim K

I don't think thread locking compound will work - it's more for stopping
screws rotating loose. It would probably be fine, except for the fact it's
a window handle that is used daily, so the screws have to be able to
withstand the forces applied when the window is opened and shut. I think
thread lock compound would soon fail under these conditions.

[JimK]

have you ever used any?

Jim K

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <m0b4l0$h67$1...@dont-email.me>,

Scion <a...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> What's the best way of dealing with this - using the same screws and
> some sort of compound to hold them in place, or using larger screws and
> enlarging the holes? Or something else? The solution must be quite
> robust as the window is opened and closed quite a lot, and there are
> children involved!

If a self tapping thread has failed, the only real option is larger screws.
Perhaps with some thread locker to help prevent it happening again.

If it's not possible to fit larger screws and there's room for them, you
could try U nuts - they fit over the ally sheet, and have a thread on one
side for a self tapper. Come in various sizes.

--
*"I am " is reportedly the shortest sentence in the English language. *

Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Nightjar]

I would look to see whether it is possible to tap the holes for a
machine thread screw. They are often a finer thread than self-tappers,
which may give better holding power in a relatively thin material.

--
Colin Bignell

[Tim Watts]

Next size self tappers and don't enlarge the hole - it's probably
already "right".

You might google for Window Repair Screw

It's a common problem and a number of screws are available with an
oversized thread but otherwise same head size and length.

[newshound]

On 29/09/2014 09:18, Scion wrote:

Not clear from description whether frames are solid (more likely to be
Critall galvanized steel) or box section (extruded Al). For box section
one option might be rivnuts. My usual "fix" for oversized holes if
tapping out is not an option is to glue in a length of studding with JB
Weld or Araldite, and use a nyloc nut. Needs sufficient depth so may not
be an option here.

[DerbyBorn]

>>
>
> Next size self tappers and don't enlarge the hole - it's probably
> already "right".
>
> You might google for Window Repair Screw
>
> It's a common problem and a number of screws are available with an
> oversized thread but otherwise same head size and length.

+1

Also make sure that the handle and mechanism is lubricated and operating as
easily as possible to minimise the amount of yanking that has to be done.

[Roger Mills]

On 29/09/2014 09:18, Scion wrote:

The frames are probably box section, with a fit of space behind the part
to which the handle attaches. [You can test this by removing the screw
and poking a thin rod (e.g. shank of 2mm drill) into the hole.] If there
*is* space, it would be worth considering replacing the screws with
suitably sized pop rivets. Many of the handles on my aluminium windows
were factory fitted using pop rivets.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

[Gazz]

"Scion" <a...@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:m0b4l0$h67$1...@dont-email.me...

> and there are children involved!

Erm, can i ask why that last bit is relevant? if the screws fail then the
kids can't open the window to fall out of, or is it more along the lines
of a daily wail thing.... the window won't open, oh my god, you can't have
that, think of the chiiiiildren :)

[Scion]

I've used the Loctite blue threadlock some time in the past, but for
stopping a screw shaking loose (car engine), not for anything where force
was going to be applied.

[Nightjar]

I assumed it was because you can't rely upon children to follow
instructions on how to open the window carefully.

--
Colin Bignell

[Scion]

Gazz put finger to keyboard:

Heh, nothing like that! Just saying that advice to open and close the
window gently (when repaired) would be somewhat optimistic.

[Scion]

Scion put finger to keyboard:

Oh BTW Jim I appreciate your suggestion...just not sure it's the best
solution, in these particular circumstances.

[Capitol]

I assumed the children were likely to fall out because it wouldn't stay
closed.

[Nightjar]

That is called learning by experience :-)

--
Colin Bignell

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <m0bmeq$h67$3...@dont-email.me>,

Scion <a...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> I've used the Loctite blue threadlock some time in the past, but for
> stopping a screw shaking loose (car engine), not for anything where force
> was going to be applied.

That's what a thread locker is for. Not to repair stripped threads.

--
*Why do the two "sanction"s (noun and verb) mean opposites?*

[stuart noble]

Bookmarked!

[Brian Gaff]

Back when ours were put in, all the handles started to come off very early
on, within six months. They turned up one day with some kind of rivet kit
and they have stayed on ever since. Don't look so nice though, as the heads
showing are big and have a kind of centre dimple.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active

"Scion" <a...@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:m0b4l0$h67$1...@dont-email.me...

[Scion]

Tim Watts put finger to keyboard:

Thanks Tim (and others with similar suggetsions). There's a lot of UPVC
repair screws but little definitive on metal frames. I'll suggest to my
friend that she goes to one of these handyman places that sells hardware
by the kilo and has knowledgeable men in brown coats, and ask for 'Some of
these, but a tadge bigger'. I can always drill out the holes slightly if
necessary.

[stuart noble]

Ronnie Barker died some time ago

[The Natural Philosopher]

This is a place where a bloody good injection of car body filler /liquid
metal followed by a redrill often works

I wouldn't use it to hold a cylinder head on. but its kept many a
kitchen cabinet going long past its sell by date, and a few other places
where metal has failed too.




--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. – Erwin Knoll

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <m0h9ps$b9v$1...@news.albasani.net>,

The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> > Thanks Tim (and others with similar suggetsions). There's a lot of
> > UPVC repair screws but little definitive on metal frames. I'll suggest
> > to my friend that she goes to one of these handyman places that sells
> > hardware by the kilo and has knowledgeable men in brown coats, and ask
> > for 'Some of these, but a tadge bigger'. I can always drill out the
> > holes slightly if necessary.
> >
> This is a place where a bloody good injection of car body filler /liquid
> metal followed by a redrill often works

I'd be most surprised if that worked where a self tapper had failed into
steel.

--
*Virtual reality is its own reward*

[Ian Jackson]

In message <544fdd8...@davenoise.co.uk>, "Dave Plowman (News)"
<da...@davenoise.co.uk> writes

>In article <m0h9ps$b9v$1...@news.albasani.net>,
> The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> > Thanks Tim (and others with similar suggetsions). There's a lot of
>> > UPVC repair screws but little definitive on metal frames. I'll suggest
>> > to my friend that she goes to one of these handyman places that sells
>> > hardware by the kilo and has knowledgeable men in brown coats, and ask
>> > for 'Some of these, but a tadge bigger'. I can always drill out the
>> > holes slightly if necessary.
>> >
>> This is a place where a bloody good injection of car body filler /liquid
>> metal followed by a redrill often works
>
>I'd be most surprised if that worked where a self tapper had failed into
>steel.
>

Would you be surprised if a Rawlplug might also work?
--
Ian

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <3AZMIwC1...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk>,

No. Plastic bushes into steel to take a self tapper are common on car
bodywork. The plastic expands and grips the steel. Car body filler would
simply crack and fall out.

--
*You are validating my inherent mistrust of strangers

[Scion]

The Natural Philosopher put finger to keyboard:

> On 01/10/14 16:58, Scion wrote:

<snip>

>> Thanks Tim (and others with similar suggetsions). There's a lot of UPVC
>> repair screws but little definitive on metal frames. I'll suggest to my
>> friend that she goes to one of these handyman places that sells
>> hardware by the kilo and has knowledgeable men in brown coats, and ask
>> for 'Some of these, but a tadge bigger'. I can always drill out the
>> holes slightly if necessary.
>>
> This is a place where a bloody good injection of car body filler /liquid
> metal followed by a redrill often works
>
> I wouldn't use it to hold a cylinder head on. but its kept many a
> kitchen cabinet going long past its sell by date, and a few other places
> where metal has failed too.

The man in the brown coat came up with some similar screws but with a
different thread pitch, some identical screws (three of the eight have
gone missing due to falling out) and some metallic putty that bonds to
other metal and sets in air in about 15 minutes. The trick is to place the
putty in the holes, screw the screws in then unscrew them and let it set.
Worth a try.