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SOT : Car central locking repair.
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Clive Arthur
Aug 21, 2018, 9:33:28 AM8/21/18
to
My '04 Xsara Picasso has a fault with the central locking. For some
time the remote hasn't worked, but that's no biggie, the car isn't used
much.
Now, however, even using the key one rear door and the tailgate won't
lock. Very limited info on the web tells me it's likely a broken wire
in the driver's door flex, but I can't see one.
I can't find anyone to fix it, except for one place who'll charge £66
just to tell me if they can or not. I'm in Reading, any ideas?
Cheers
--
Clive
time the remote hasn't worked, but that's no biggie, the car isn't used
much.
Now, however, even using the key one rear door and the tailgate won't
lock. Very limited info on the web tells me it's likely a broken wire
in the driver's door flex, but I can't see one.
I can't find anyone to fix it, except for one place who'll charge £66
just to tell me if they can or not. I'm in Reading, any ideas?
Cheers
--
Clive
T i m
Aug 21, 2018, 10:39:59 AM8/21/18
to
On Tue, 21 Aug 2018 14:33:23 +0100, Clive Arthur
<cli...@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
>My '04 Xsara Picasso has a fault with the central locking. For some
>time the remote hasn't worked, but that's no biggie, the car isn't used
>much.
>
>Now, however, even using the key one rear door and the tailgate won't
>lock. Very limited info on the web tells me it's likely a broken wire
>in the driver's door flex, but I can't see one.
The chances are it won't be broken (in half) physically but broken
<cli...@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
>My '04 Xsara Picasso has a fault with the central locking. For some
>time the remote hasn't worked, but that's no biggie, the car isn't used
>much.
>
>Now, however, even using the key one rear door and the tailgate won't
>lock. Very limited info on the web tells me it's likely a broken wire
>in the driver's door flex, but I can't see one.
inside the insulation.
One way of testing for that is either meter the voltages on the
various circuits to see if they look right (difficult), get to both
ends of the loom and check for continuity (equally difficult) or pull
each wire as close as you can to where they flex and see if one feels
'elastically' and / or even breaks (still difficult)?
If one (or more) broken wires located you can either replace that
section of loom (door bits to car somewhere) or replace the broken
wires and hope the rest stay good. Often any bigger wires (earth or
power) break first.
If you can get them all in plain sight (from where they go into the
body and door, plus a bit) and give each wire a bend, you might see
any broken ones (also difficult).
I guess it all depends on how much money you can afford to give to
someone else in lieu of doing such initial experiments (given that it
could be somewhere else, like a BCM)?
FWIW, I rebuilt the loom where it goes though the tailgate hinge on
our 04 Meriva and it's been fine ever since. ;-)
It did require removing the tailgate lining and some of the rear post
inner plastics (requiring some replacement clips as they all go
brittle etc).
Cheers, T i m
Mr Pounder Esquire
Aug 21, 2018, 11:44:43 AM8/21/18
to
Check that the tiny micro switch in the key fob has not fallen off.
Also check that the battery in the key fob is okay. If you can't check, get
some new ones from a Pound shop. They are okay.
Dave Plowman (News)
Aug 21, 2018, 11:45:27 AM8/21/18
to
In article <plh4b5$7cg$1...@dont-email.me>,
Assuming an electric system, most these days are two wire. Feeding a motor
which operates the locks. Reversing the connections to the motor makes it
reverse so lock or unlock. (a motor and rack and pinion to move the
mechanical lock is more efficient than a solenoid)
There is usually a controller of some sort. What this does is send out a
timed pulse to the motors. So they operate then stop. Switches inside the
key lock (often both front doors and perhaps boot) tell the controller to
send a lock or unlock pulse.
Point being if one door locks, but doesn't unlock, unlikely to be a wiring
fault as both wires are needed for it to do anything. And all the motors
are usually parallel wired.
Modern cars might have the controller as part of other electronics.
--
*WHOSE CRUEL IDEA WAS IT FOR THE WORD 'LISP' TO HAVE 'S' IN IT?
Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
which operates the locks. Reversing the connections to the motor makes it
reverse so lock or unlock. (a motor and rack and pinion to move the
mechanical lock is more efficient than a solenoid)
There is usually a controller of some sort. What this does is send out a
timed pulse to the motors. So they operate then stop. Switches inside the
key lock (often both front doors and perhaps boot) tell the controller to
send a lock or unlock pulse.
Point being if one door locks, but doesn't unlock, unlikely to be a wiring
fault as both wires are needed for it to do anything. And all the motors
are usually parallel wired.
Modern cars might have the controller as part of other electronics.
--
*WHOSE CRUEL IDEA WAS IT FOR THE WORD 'LISP' TO HAVE 'S' IN IT?
Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Michael Chare
Aug 21, 2018, 12:45:07 PM8/21/18
to
> Cheers
On my VW Passat one of the rear doors would not open. The door lock has
an electric motor which had got stuck. Revving the car up to get max
volts then hitting the car by the lock whilst someone else kept pressing
open and close eventually freed the lock.
hitting the
--
Michael Chare
Brian Gaff
Aug 21, 2018, 2:29:17 PM8/21/18
to
But that will not help with the failure to command locked some of the locks,
will it?
Most of the time these problems are bad connections or fractured wires in
ribbon cables.
Its going to be hard to find. It would be interesting though, to know if
both non locking locks failed together, it might point the finger at a
culprit more accurately though what connection one rear door and the
tailgate may have to each other is hard to know. It could be they share a
common return especially if its the driver side rear door.
Brian
--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Mr Pounder Esquire" <MrPo...@RationalThought.com> wrote in message
news:plhc18$pqv$1...@dont-email.me...
will it?
Most of the time these problems are bad connections or fractured wires in
ribbon cables.
Its going to be hard to find. It would be interesting though, to know if
both non locking locks failed together, it might point the finger at a
culprit more accurately though what connection one rear door and the
tailgate may have to each other is hard to know. It could be they share a
common return especially if its the driver side rear door.
Brian
--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Mr Pounder Esquire" <MrPo...@RationalThought.com> wrote in message
news:plhc18$pqv$1...@dont-email.me...
Brian Reay
Aug 21, 2018, 3:05:26 PM8/21/18
to
Clive Arthur wrote:
>> My '04 Xsara Picasso has a fault with the central locking. For some
>> time the remote hasn't worked, but that's no biggie, the car isn't
>> used much.
>>
>> Now, however, even using the key one rear door and the tailgate won't
>> lock. Very limited info on the web tells me it's likely a broken wire
>> in the driver's door flex, but I can't see one.
>>
>> I can't find anyone to fix it, except for one place who'll charge £66
>> just to tell me if they can or not. I'm in Reading, any ideas?
I'd look for broken wires in on the doors etc which don't work.
>> My '04 Xsara Picasso has a fault with the central locking. For some
>> time the remote hasn't worked, but that's no biggie, the car isn't
>> used much.
>>
>> Now, however, even using the key one rear door and the tailgate won't
>> lock. Very limited info on the web tells me it's likely a broken wire
>> in the driver's door flex, but I can't see one.
>>
>> I can't find anyone to fix it, except for one place who'll charge £66
>> just to tell me if they can or not. I'm in Reading, any ideas?
Typically, there is a rubber 'tube' with three wires in the hinge area.
One is ground. One pulses to open. One pulses to close. If the ground
one is broken, the door won't open or lock. If one of the others, the
corresponding function fails.
You can generally replace the wire - replace the whole section (say 9")
not just a tiny bit where the break is. If you do the latter, the join
is a stress point and will fail, you want the new joints to be on a
section that doesn't flex.
--
https://www.gov.uk/report-benefit-fraud
https://www.jobcentreguide.org/claiming-benefits/30/reporting-benefit-fraud
GB
Aug 21, 2018, 3:55:22 PM8/21/18
to
On 21/08/2018 15:39, T i m wrote:
> Often any bigger wires (earth or
> power) break first.
That's interesting, and definitely counter-intuitive.
> Often any bigger wires (earth or
> power) break first.
T i m
Aug 21, 2018, 5:30:32 PM8/21/18
to
On Tue, 21 Aug 2018 20:55:22 +0100, GB <NOTSo...@Microsoft.Com>
wrote:
I think it's just down to a hardening of the insulation and then the
ability of that insulation to be able to bend linearly. The thicker
the wire / insulation the less ability for it to manage to bend
without the insulation fracturing, closely followed by the conductors
as then they work harden at the fracture point and fail themselves.
FWIW, I think there was a thinner wire that had also failed (that fed
the stoplight feed to the LED one in the tailgate) and that then
became earthed via the fractured earth cable (that was still providing
an earth though the tailgate hinge and latch) and blowing the
stoplight fuse.
As a temporary fix I insulated the ends of the fractured wires,
replace the fuse and was able to continue with the two std stoplights.
The bidet wasn't affected. ;-)
When I repaired the loom I replaced the couple of 'bigger' wires
(earth and feed to the rear screen heater) with several smaller ones,
allowing the bundle to retain better flexibility for longer.
Cheers, T i m
wrote:
ability of that insulation to be able to bend linearly. The thicker
the wire / insulation the less ability for it to manage to bend
without the insulation fracturing, closely followed by the conductors
as then they work harden at the fracture point and fail themselves.
FWIW, I think there was a thinner wire that had also failed (that fed
the stoplight feed to the LED one in the tailgate) and that then
became earthed via the fractured earth cable (that was still providing
an earth though the tailgate hinge and latch) and blowing the
stoplight fuse.
As a temporary fix I insulated the ends of the fractured wires,
replace the fuse and was able to continue with the two std stoplights.
The bidet wasn't affected. ;-)
When I repaired the loom I replaced the couple of 'bigger' wires
(earth and feed to the rear screen heater) with several smaller ones,
allowing the bundle to retain better flexibility for longer.
Cheers, T i m
Adrian Caspersz
Aug 22, 2018, 5:13:18 AM8/22/18
to
On 21/08/18 17:45, Michael Chare wrote:
> On my VW Passat one of the rear doors would not open. The door lock has
> an electric motor which had got stuck. Revving the car up to get max
> volts then hitting the car by the lock whilst someone else kept pressing
> open and close eventually freed the lock.
Same experience and solution here on an 2004 Octavia MK1, but without
> On my VW Passat one of the rear doors would not open. The door lock has
> an electric motor which had got stuck. Revving the car up to get max
> volts then hitting the car by the lock whilst someone else kept pressing
> open and close eventually freed the lock.
the Italian tuneup!
--
Adrian C
RJH
Aug 22, 2018, 9:14:03 AM8/22/18
to
On 21/08/2018 14:33, Clive Arthur wrote:
found them very helpful - covered most of the problems I've had.
--
Cheers, Rob
T i m
Aug 22, 2018, 11:07:18 AM8/22/18
to
On Wed, 22 Aug 2018 13:03:32 -0000 (UTC), Jethro_uk
<jeth...@hotmailbin.com> wrote:
<snip>
>
>The pickup unit floated so the advance-retard could work. Over time, the
>insulation became baked, and the copper wire inside broke. Leading to a
>really annoying intermittent fault where the car would cut out idling at
>times, but restart and carry on (for weeks, sometimes).
Aren't they the most fun (not). ;-(
And of course, you might stumble on that if you went though everything
carefully, or you might not ...
Like the motorbike I was helping sort for daughters friend. The bike
shop looked at it, did some stuff and then suggested the carbs were
worn (float jet seats were non replaceable) and that we should locate
a second hand pair (£600 *each* new).
If we had ... and if they had come with manifold rubbers and we had
used them ... and the fault cleared, we may have concluded that it
was indeed the carbs?
But every test I did on the carbs suggested there was nothing wrong
with them ... and a spray of Easy-Start around the manifold gasket
highlighted the actual cause (an air leak). Two new rubbers (and
clips) later, it was running fine again?
Now, had we got a pair of s/h carbs for 50 quid and it had fixed the
problem (because they happened to come with better rubbers), it would
have been the same as we paid for new rubbers and clips, but at least
I was happy these carbs were good (and jetted correctly for that bike)
and the rubbers brand new, no idea if the second hand ones were going
to be.
Cheers, T i m
<jeth...@hotmailbin.com> wrote:
<snip>
>
>The pickup unit floated so the advance-retard could work. Over time, the
>insulation became baked, and the copper wire inside broke. Leading to a
>really annoying intermittent fault where the car would cut out idling at
>times, but restart and carry on (for weeks, sometimes).
Aren't they the most fun (not). ;-(
And of course, you might stumble on that if you went though everything
carefully, or you might not ...
Like the motorbike I was helping sort for daughters friend. The bike
shop looked at it, did some stuff and then suggested the carbs were
worn (float jet seats were non replaceable) and that we should locate
a second hand pair (£600 *each* new).
If we had ... and if they had come with manifold rubbers and we had
used them ... and the fault cleared, we may have concluded that it
was indeed the carbs?
But every test I did on the carbs suggested there was nothing wrong
with them ... and a spray of Easy-Start around the manifold gasket
highlighted the actual cause (an air leak). Two new rubbers (and
clips) later, it was running fine again?
Now, had we got a pair of s/h carbs for 50 quid and it had fixed the
problem (because they happened to come with better rubbers), it would
have been the same as we paid for new rubbers and clips, but at least
I was happy these carbs were good (and jetted correctly for that bike)
and the rubbers brand new, no idea if the second hand ones were going
to be.
Cheers, T i m
T i m
Aug 22, 2018, 12:08:49 PM8/22/18
to
On Wed, 22 Aug 2018 15:54:04 -0000 (UTC), Jethro_uk
<jeth...@hotmailbin.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 22 Aug 2018 16:07:15 +0100, T i m wrote:
>
>> And of course, you might stumble on that if you went though everything
>> carefully, or you might not ...
>
>Well I found it because a customer finally left the car with us "until it
>was fixed".
It sometimes needs that sort of approach.
>We ran around in it for a few days and finally, one evening
>when we were bringing it in, it did it. Stalled, and wouldn't start.
Wahoo!
>Within seconds I was there, and immediately diagnosed no spark.
Cool.
>
>After that it was just a case of dismantling the ignition system
>component by component. And in a rare example of God smiling, I started
>with the distributor :)
As you say, that was a (time saving) bit of luck.
>
>Of course, unlike electro-mechanical ignition, you never needed to touch
>the distributor -
Yup. We fitted a Luminition unit to the kitcar when we built it ~30
years ago and I can't remember the last time I touched any of it?
>which was probably why the fault got "buried". But as
>soon as I started dismantling the distributor, the pickup wires parted,
>and it was obvious what the fault was.
Isn't that a lovely feeling though. ;-)
>
>After that, every service we removed and inspected the distributor. And
>found that at about 24,000 miles, it was a 1/2 chance of a broken pickup
>wire.
Oh.
>
>Apparently we changed so many, the the car manufacturer noticed their
>end. One spares outlet accounted for 80% of EU sales of that part ...
Wow.
And right across the EU eh, let's hope we don't lose access to that
sort of database in the near future ... ;-(
Cheers, T i m
<jeth...@hotmailbin.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 22 Aug 2018 16:07:15 +0100, T i m wrote:
>
>> And of course, you might stumble on that if you went though everything
>> carefully, or you might not ...
>
>was fixed".
It sometimes needs that sort of approach.
>We ran around in it for a few days and finally, one evening
>when we were bringing it in, it did it. Stalled, and wouldn't start.
Wahoo!
>Within seconds I was there, and immediately diagnosed no spark.
Cool.
>
>After that it was just a case of dismantling the ignition system
>component by component. And in a rare example of God smiling, I started
>with the distributor :)
As you say, that was a (time saving) bit of luck.
>
>Of course, unlike electro-mechanical ignition, you never needed to touch
>the distributor -
Yup. We fitted a Luminition unit to the kitcar when we built it ~30
years ago and I can't remember the last time I touched any of it?
>which was probably why the fault got "buried". But as
>soon as I started dismantling the distributor, the pickup wires parted,
>and it was obvious what the fault was.
Isn't that a lovely feeling though. ;-)
>
>After that, every service we removed and inspected the distributor. And
>found that at about 24,000 miles, it was a 1/2 chance of a broken pickup
>wire.
Oh.
>
>Apparently we changed so many, the the car manufacturer noticed their
>end. One spares outlet accounted for 80% of EU sales of that part ...
Wow.
And right across the EU eh, let's hope we don't lose access to that
sort of database in the near future ... ;-(
Cheers, T i m
Mike Clarke
Aug 22, 2018, 3:12:32 PM8/22/18
to
On 22/08/2018 14:14, RJH wrote:
> Are there any Citroen forums? For my cars (mainly VWs and Audis) I've
> found them very helpful - covered most of the problems I've had.
http://www.citroenpicasso.org.uk/picasso/
> Are there any Citroen forums? For my cars (mainly VWs and Audis) I've
> found them very helpful - covered most of the problems I've had.
--
Mike Clarke
Michael Chare
Aug 22, 2018, 4:00:52 PM8/22/18
to
hit something to get it to work.
--
Michael Chare
charles
Aug 22, 2018, 4:07:22 PM8/22/18
to
In article <plkfdh$ho8$1...@dont-email.me>,
1st IA.
> --
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
> --
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
alan_m
Aug 22, 2018, 10:32:30 PM8/22/18
to
On 22/08/2018 17:08, T i m wrote:
> And right across the EU eh, let's hope we don't lose access to that
> sort of database in the near future ... ;-(
Don't be worrying about the data base. You will not be able to get
> And right across the EU eh, let's hope we don't lose access to that
> sort of database in the near future ... ;-(
spares for any car built in what is left of EU. No trade deal- no spares!
--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk
The Natural Philosopher
Aug 23, 2018, 2:07:49 AM8/23/18
to
On 23/08/18 03:32, alan_m wrote:
> On 22/08/2018 17:08, T i m wrote:
>
>> And right across the EU eh, let's hope we don't lose access to that
>> sort of database in the near future ... ;-(
>
> Don't be worrying about the data base. You will not be able to get
> spares for any car built in what is left of EU. No trade deal- no spares!
>
>
Stupid silly little boy
> On 22/08/2018 17:08, T i m wrote:
>
>> And right across the EU eh, let's hope we don't lose access to that
>> sort of database in the near future ... ;-(
>
> Don't be worrying about the data base. You will not be able to get
> spares for any car built in what is left of EU. No trade deal- no spares!
>
>
--
Canada is all right really, though not for the whole weekend.
"Saki"
RJH
Aug 23, 2018, 3:17:46 AM8/23/18
to
get involved in most of the threads I've looked at):
<http://www.citroenpicasso.org.uk/picasso/index.php/topic/22446-2005-16-hdi-central-locking-issue/?hl=central+locking>
(stuck solenoid)
If the OP finds a solution, I think it'd be nice if they posted it there
. . . and here :-)
--
Cheers, Rob
John Angus
Aug 23, 2018, 3:42:48 AM8/23/18
to
"The Natural Philosopher" <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:pllivj$q34$1...@dont-email.me...
> On 23/08/18 03:32, alan_m wrote:
>> On 22/08/2018 17:08, T i m wrote:
>>
>>> And right across the EU eh, let's hope we don't lose access to that
>>> sort of database in the near future ... ;-(
>>
>> Don't be worrying about the data base. You will not be able to get spares
>> for any car built in what is left of EU. No trade deal- no spares!
>>
>>
> Stupid silly little boy
He was being sarcastic.
>> On 22/08/2018 17:08, T i m wrote:
>>
>>> And right across the EU eh, let's hope we don't lose access to that
>>> sort of database in the near future ... ;-(
>>
>> Don't be worrying about the data base. You will not be able to get spares
>> for any car built in what is left of EU. No trade deal- no spares!
>>
>>
> Stupid silly little boy
The Natural Philosopher
Aug 23, 2018, 4:54:05 AM8/23/18
to
--
“But what a weak barrier is truth when it stands in the way of an
hypothesis!”
Mary Wollstonecraft
John Angus
Aug 23, 2018, 5:38:24 AM8/23/18
to
"The Natural Philosopher" <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> On 23/08/18 08:42, John Angus wrote:
>>
>>
>> "The Natural Philosopher" <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:pllivj$q34$1...@dont-email.me...
>>> On 23/08/18 03:32, alan_m wrote:
>>>> On 22/08/2018 17:08, T i m wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> And right across the EU eh, let's hope we don't lose access to that
>>>>> sort of database in the near future ... ;-(
>>>>
>>>> Don't be worrying about the data base. You will not be able to get
>>>> spares for any car built in what is left of EU. No trade deal- no
>>>> spares!
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Stupid silly little boy
>>
>> He was being sarcastic.
>
> No, he wasn't. Its T i m.
No it wasn’t.
>>
>>
>> "The Natural Philosopher" <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:pllivj$q34$1...@dont-email.me...
>>> On 23/08/18 03:32, alan_m wrote:
>>>> On 22/08/2018 17:08, T i m wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> And right across the EU eh, let's hope we don't lose access to that
>>>>> sort of database in the near future ... ;-(
>>>>
>>>> Don't be worrying about the data base. You will not be able to get
>>>> spares for any car built in what is left of EU. No trade deal- no
>>>> spares!
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Stupid silly little boy
>>
>> He was being sarcastic.
>
> No, he wasn't. Its T i m.
Dave Plowman (News)
Aug 23, 2018, 10:35:02 AM8/23/18
to
In article <plhnpj$ckh$1...@dont-email.me>,
one (I've seen) is two wire, where the polarity reverses the motor. So a
broken wire would stop it working entirely.
--
*My wife has a slight impediment in her speech. She stops to breathe.
Brian Reay <no...@m.com> wrote:
> I'd look for broken wires in on the doors etc which don't work.
> Typically, there is a rubber 'tube' with three wires in the hinge area.
> One is ground. One pulses to open. One pulses to close. If the ground
> one is broken, the door won't open or lock. If one of the others, the
> corresponding function fails.
Only time I've seen a three wire system was on a very old car. The common
> I'd look for broken wires in on the doors etc which don't work.
> Typically, there is a rubber 'tube' with three wires in the hinge area.
> One is ground. One pulses to open. One pulses to close. If the ground
> one is broken, the door won't open or lock. If one of the others, the
> corresponding function fails.
one (I've seen) is two wire, where the polarity reverses the motor. So a
broken wire would stop it working entirely.
--
*My wife has a slight impediment in her speech. She stops to breathe.
Rod Speed
Aug 23, 2018, 3:06:02 PM8/23/18
to
"Dave Plowman (News)" <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:572c1af...@davenoise.co.uk...
> In article <plhnpj$ckh$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Brian Reay <no...@m.com> wrote:
>> I'd look for broken wires in on the doors etc which don't work.
>
>> Typically, there is a rubber 'tube' with three wires in the hinge area.
>
>> One is ground. One pulses to open. One pulses to close. If the ground
>> one is broken, the door won't open or lock. If one of the others, the
>> corresponding function fails.
>
>
> Only time I've seen a three wire system was on a very old car. The common
> one (I've seen) is two wire, where the polarity reverses the motor. So a
> broken wire would stop it working entirely.
Yeah, that’s how my Hyundai Getz does it, 2 wires reversed.
> Brian Reay <no...@m.com> wrote:
>> I'd look for broken wires in on the doors etc which don't work.
>
>> Typically, there is a rubber 'tube' with three wires in the hinge area.
>
>> One is ground. One pulses to open. One pulses to close. If the ground
>> one is broken, the door won't open or lock. If one of the others, the
>> corresponding function fails.
>
>
> Only time I've seen a three wire system was on a very old car. The common
> one (I've seen) is two wire, where the polarity reverses the motor. So a
> broken wire would stop it working entirely.
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