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underfloor heating under a shower tray?
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swimm...@yahoo.co.uk
Oct 16, 2012, 5:44:27 PM10/16/12
to
Is it legal? I can't find any reference...
Anyhow, the bathroom is so small that it might be worth extending the electric mat under the shower space - the shower tray isn't fitted yet and it would be useful to have the floor elevated a bit (so underfloor heating comes very handy here) to improve the water drainage from the shower and the basin.
Any advice?
Anyhow, the bathroom is so small that it might be worth extending the electric mat under the shower space - the shower tray isn't fitted yet and it would be useful to have the floor elevated a bit (so underfloor heating comes very handy here) to improve the water drainage from the shower and the basin.
Any advice?
Andrew Gabriel
Oct 16, 2012, 6:03:10 PM10/16/12
to
In article <d827828d-1ce7-40c4...@googlegroups.com>,
I wouldn't. Shower tray will be heated by the shower jet when in use.
When not in use, you don't want it heated - you want the water to drain
away, and not to dry and leave soap/scale deposits behind in the tray.
--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
When not in use, you don't want it heated - you want the water to drain
away, and not to dry and leave soap/scale deposits behind in the tray.
--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
swimm...@yahoo.co.uk
Oct 16, 2012, 6:47:19 PM10/16/12
to
Leaving that square meter cold means the volume inside the shower - being enclosed) is going to be a bit colder than the rest of the room.
Not all areas in a bathroom are used all the time (including the shower tray) this doesn't mean we shouldn't use underfloor heating in certain areas just because our feet are on it only 1-2 hours per day.
Common sense tells me that it would be ideal to cover the entire bathroom floor - but maybe there are some legal requirements to be met regarding the shower tray...
Ben Blaukopf
Oct 17, 2012, 5:26:22 AM10/17/12
to
On Oct 16, 11:47 pm, swimmyde...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
> On Tuesday, 16 October 2012 23:03:11 UTC+1, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
> > In article <d827828d-1ce7-40c4...@googlegroups.com>,
>
I believe that so long as it's earthed (i.e. not the carbon film
> On Tuesday, 16 October 2012 23:03:11 UTC+1, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
> > In article <d827828d-1ce7-40c4...@googlegroups.com>,
>
stuff) you can put it wherever you like.
> We want a warm bathroom - having a square meter cold when the rest is warm doesn't make much sense to me - especially when the bathroom is only 3 square meters in total and most mats offer up to 200w/m2.
more than enough.
> Leaving that square meter cold means the volume inside the shower - being enclosed) is going to be a bit colder than the rest of the room.
of the shower cubicle, and the glass provides little insulation. In
any case, it will warm up - quickly - as soon as you turn the shower
on.
> Not all areas in a bathroom are used all the time (including the shower tray) this doesn't mean we shouldn't use underfloor heating in certain areas just because our feet are on it only 1-2 hours per day.
> Common sense tells me that it would be ideal to cover the entire bathroom floor - but maybe there are some legal requirements to be met regarding the shower tray...
entire floor is if there is any possibility of moving the shower tray
to a different area of the room in the future.
Do remember that some things will need to be fixed to the floor, like
the toilet and shower...
meow...@care2.com
Oct 17, 2012, 6:04:26 AM10/17/12
to
NT
ARW
Oct 17, 2012, 2:46:41 PM10/17/12
to
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
> In article <d827828d-1ce7-40c4...@googlegroups.com>,
> swimm...@yahoo.co.uk writes:
> > Is it legal? I can't find any reference...
> > Anyhow, the bathroom is so small that it might be worth extending
> > the electric mat under the shower space - the shower tray isn't
> > fitted yet and it would be useful to have the floor elevated a bit
> > (so underfloor heating comes very handy here) to improve the water
> > drainage from the shower and the basin. Any advice?
>
> I wouldn't. Shower tray will be heated by the shower jet when in use.
> When not in use, you don't want it heated - you want the water to
> drain away, and not to dry and leave soap/scale deposits behind in
> the tray.
I have just fitted masses of electric underfloor heating. Unfortunatley I
> In article <d827828d-1ce7-40c4...@googlegroups.com>,
> swimm...@yahoo.co.uk writes:
> > Is it legal? I can't find any reference...
> > Anyhow, the bathroom is so small that it might be worth extending
> > the electric mat under the shower space - the shower tray isn't
> > fitted yet and it would be useful to have the floor elevated a bit
> > (so underfloor heating comes very handy here) to improve the water
> > drainage from the shower and the basin. Any advice?
>
> I wouldn't. Shower tray will be heated by the shower jet when in use.
> When not in use, you don't want it heated - you want the water to
> drain away, and not to dry and leave soap/scale deposits behind in
> the tray.
did not order it or measure it. The company that sold the UFH did the sizing
calulations and they included the matting to go under the shower tray. A
brilliant move as the 3 ensuites and one of the shower rooms have flush
shower trays. I worked with the plumber to get any excess matting under the
bath in a way that I would not get the excess cable damaged with his
pipework of fixing screws and I got the tiler to tile under the bath over
the UFH.
The designers also worked to an old kitchen plan and an old utility plan (as
did I with the electrics). A rejig of the 14 mats for the kitchen/utility, 3
ensuites, two toilets and 2 bathrooms left me with two spare mats and a lot
less excess to hide:-) The designers also had put one of the downstairs
toilets on it's own mat with controller (I did not do that) so I also have a
spare controller and thermostat.
--
Adam
Andrew Gabriel
Oct 18, 2012, 10:12:08 AM10/18/12
to
In article <k5muem$9j$1...@dont-email.me>,
I did a poor-man's underfloor heating for my brother's bathroom some
years ago. I snaked a 10mm microbore run up and down between each floor
joist and lightly sprayed the top surface of the pipe with black paint
(with bare copper being a poor emitter). It was an experiment as they
didn't want a radiator in the room. I have to say, it worked stunningly
well, and the cost was just a coil of microbore pipe and a TRV (head
poked out the end of the bath panel).
I wanted to avoid routing the microbore under the loo (keeping the
toilet trap warm didn't seem to be a good idea), but they couldn't
make up their minds where the loo was going in time, so I just had
to lay the microbore everywhere (although not much under the bath).
There were two parallel runs in a small bathroom - a bigger room
would require more.
years ago. I snaked a 10mm microbore run up and down between each floor
joist and lightly sprayed the top surface of the pipe with black paint
(with bare copper being a poor emitter). It was an experiment as they
didn't want a radiator in the room. I have to say, it worked stunningly
well, and the cost was just a coil of microbore pipe and a TRV (head
poked out the end of the bath panel).
I wanted to avoid routing the microbore under the loo (keeping the
toilet trap warm didn't seem to be a good idea), but they couldn't
make up their minds where the loo was going in time, so I just had
to lay the microbore everywhere (although not much under the bath).
There were two parallel runs in a small bathroom - a bigger room
would require more.
ARW
Oct 20, 2012, 6:42:29 AM10/20/12
to
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
> In article <k5muem$9j$1...@dont-email.me>,
throttle the flow (or the return)? No extra pumps as used on the new builds
UFH I wire up?
--
Adam
> In article <k5muem$9j$1...@dont-email.me>,
> I did a poor-man's underfloor heating for my brother's bathroom some
> years ago. I snaked a 10mm microbore run up and down between each
> floor joist and lightly sprayed the top surface of the pipe with
> black paint (with bare copper being a poor emitter). It was an
> experiment as they didn't want a radiator in the room. I have to say,
> it worked stunningly well, and the cost was just a coil of microbore
> pipe and a TRV (head poked out the end of the bath panel).
>
> I wanted to avoid routing the microbore under the loo (keeping the
> toilet trap warm didn't seem to be a good idea), but they couldn't
> make up their minds where the loo was going in time, so I just had
> to lay the microbore everywhere (although not much under the bath).
> There were two parallel runs in a small bathroom - a bigger room
> would require more.
Andrew, was this microbore acting as a large radiator with the valve used to
> years ago. I snaked a 10mm microbore run up and down between each
> floor joist and lightly sprayed the top surface of the pipe with
> black paint (with bare copper being a poor emitter). It was an
> experiment as they didn't want a radiator in the room. I have to say,
> it worked stunningly well, and the cost was just a coil of microbore
> pipe and a TRV (head poked out the end of the bath panel).
>
> I wanted to avoid routing the microbore under the loo (keeping the
> toilet trap warm didn't seem to be a good idea), but they couldn't
> make up their minds where the loo was going in time, so I just had
> to lay the microbore everywhere (although not much under the bath).
> There were two parallel runs in a small bathroom - a bigger room
> would require more.
throttle the flow (or the return)? No extra pumps as used on the new builds
UFH I wire up?
--
Adam
Andrew Gabriel
Oct 20, 2012, 8:25:37 AM10/20/12
to
In article <k5tv6m$2i5$1...@dont-email.me>,
It was supported about an inch or two under the floor boards.
The radiative properties of 10mm copper microbore are probably
quite limited simply by the limited size of the emitter. I
imagine it works by a combination of convection and emission
in the under-floor space, heating up the floorboards (actually
18mm ply in this case, as it was tiled on top). The relatively
poor thermal contact with the floor (unlike using heat-spreading
aluminium UFH) meant that it can run at the flow temperature of
the central heating, rather than needing a mixing valve.
This was a first floor room, so there's a ceiling underneath,
effectively sealing an air pocket between each joint run.
I doubt this would work with a ground floor and ventilated
subfloor, unless you insulated between the joists below the
pipework. You would need enough space for convection to occur,
probably a minimum of 3", but more would be better.
No additional pump - it's just across the radiator circuit.
I used a TRV in case it turned out to be too good and cooked
the room - I had no idea if it would work too well, or not at
all, and would have no access to change it after the new floor
went down.
It didn't get installed quite as I indended, because I was
doing part of it (at weekends) and a plumber finished off
connecting it up when I wasn't there during the week.
I fitted the microbore loops and terminated it on 15mm
copper under the bath, and having run out of time, I left
a TRV and stop valve and two air bleeds for him to loop up
above the floor under the bath in both the flow and return.
He only looped one of them (didn't see which) above the floor
and fitted the TRV and the bleed valve at the top of the loop.
I had intended the stop valve to be used so the circuit could
be balanced, and isolated if it leaked (fortunately it never did).
So we couldn't balance it, but the resistance of the microbore
seems to be about right to do the job.
The reason for using microbore was that I thought I could thread
it all through with each loop as a single piece with no joins.
That turned out to be impossible, as after you've threaded it
through a couple of turns, it's work-hardened too much to thread
any further without a lot of effort. In the end, I think I had a
soldered join in each loop. I pressure tested the whole circuit
with air before losing access to it under the floor. Next time,
I wouldn't bother trying to avoid breaking and joining the pipe.
(The plumber was very compilentary about my soldering, and very
intreagued at the whole experiment.)
The radiative properties of 10mm copper microbore are probably
quite limited simply by the limited size of the emitter. I
imagine it works by a combination of convection and emission
in the under-floor space, heating up the floorboards (actually
18mm ply in this case, as it was tiled on top). The relatively
poor thermal contact with the floor (unlike using heat-spreading
aluminium UFH) meant that it can run at the flow temperature of
the central heating, rather than needing a mixing valve.
This was a first floor room, so there's a ceiling underneath,
effectively sealing an air pocket between each joint run.
I doubt this would work with a ground floor and ventilated
subfloor, unless you insulated between the joists below the
pipework. You would need enough space for convection to occur,
probably a minimum of 3", but more would be better.
No additional pump - it's just across the radiator circuit.
I used a TRV in case it turned out to be too good and cooked
the room - I had no idea if it would work too well, or not at
all, and would have no access to change it after the new floor
went down.
It didn't get installed quite as I indended, because I was
doing part of it (at weekends) and a plumber finished off
connecting it up when I wasn't there during the week.
I fitted the microbore loops and terminated it on 15mm
copper under the bath, and having run out of time, I left
a TRV and stop valve and two air bleeds for him to loop up
above the floor under the bath in both the flow and return.
He only looped one of them (didn't see which) above the floor
and fitted the TRV and the bleed valve at the top of the loop.
I had intended the stop valve to be used so the circuit could
be balanced, and isolated if it leaked (fortunately it never did).
So we couldn't balance it, but the resistance of the microbore
seems to be about right to do the job.
The reason for using microbore was that I thought I could thread
it all through with each loop as a single piece with no joins.
That turned out to be impossible, as after you've threaded it
through a couple of turns, it's work-hardened too much to thread
any further without a lot of effort. In the end, I think I had a
soldered join in each loop. I pressure tested the whole circuit
with air before losing access to it under the floor. Next time,
I wouldn't bother trying to avoid breaking and joining the pipe.
(The plumber was very compilentary about my soldering, and very
intreagued at the whole experiment.)
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