Aladdin Isolator Valve

[GB]

Aladdin Isolator Valve

http://www.screwfix.com/p/aladdin-easy-fit-isolator-starter-pack/36008

I've just bought one, as I think the mains tap won't work in a flat I'm
going to be working in. Has anyone else here used one? Seems a great
idea, but I wonder what they are like in practice?

[newshound]

Anyone else find it slightly surprising that this works? Does it
completely shear the pipe, and insert a gate?

[GB]

It's like a photocopier. No way should that work!

It punches right through at least one wall of the pipe, and yes it must
be a rotating gate valve.

The whole thing relies on the silicone seals within the body lasting
pretty much forever.

[Bob Eager]

I can't work out where the excised bits go.

[Tim Watts]

Horrid idea - replace the main isolator with a pegler (or other GOOD
make) full bore 1/4 turn valve.

If the street cock won't turn off, get the water company to fix that
first. If this is the first cock after where the mains splits to feed
the various flats, there's always a pipe freezer.

[Roger Mills]

Me neither!
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[John Rumm]

On 09/05/2016 10:54, Bob Eager wrote:

They probably get flattened at the back of the valve...


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[John Rumm]

On 09/05/2016 15:02, John Rumm wrote:
> On 09/05/2016 10:54, Bob Eager wrote:
>> On Mon, 09 May 2016 10:35:09 +0100, newshound wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/9/2016 9:37 AM, GB wrote:
>>>> Aladdin Isolator Valve
>>>>
>>>> http://www.screwfix.com/p/aladdin-easy-fit-isolator-starter-pack/36008
>>>>
>>>> I've just bought one, as I think the mains tap won't work in a flat I'm
>>>> going to be working in. Has anyone else here used one? Seems a great
>>>> idea, but I wonder what they are like in practice?
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Anyone else find it slightly surprising that this works? Does it
>>> completely shear the pipe, and insert a gate?
>>
>> I can't work out where the excised bits go.
>
> They probably get flattened at the back of the valve...

Ah, yes:

http://aladdin-products.co.uk/products/easyfit-isolator/

(that's also why there is a minimum drill torque spec, since it needs
the power to crush the pipe).

[Bob Eager]

On Mon, 09 May 2016 15:07:49 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

> On 09/05/2016 15:02, John Rumm wrote:
>> On 09/05/2016 10:54, Bob Eager wrote:
>>> On Mon, 09 May 2016 10:35:09 +0100, newshound wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 5/9/2016 9:37 AM, GB wrote:
>>>>> Aladdin Isolator Valve
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.screwfix.com/p/aladdin-easy-fit-isolator-starter-
pack/36008
>>>>>
>>>>> I've just bought one, as I think the mains tap won't work in a flat
>>>>> I'm going to be working in. Has anyone else here used one? Seems a
>>>>> great idea, but I wonder what they are like in practice?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Anyone else find it slightly surprising that this works? Does it
>>>> completely shear the pipe, and insert a gate?
>>>
>>> I can't work out where the excised bits go.
>>
>> They probably get flattened at the back of the valve...
>
> Ah, yes:
>
> http://aladdin-products.co.uk/products/easyfit-isolator/
>
> (that's also why there is a minimum drill torque spec, since it needs
> the power to crush the pipe).

Ah, I see. The pipe slug ends up in the recess at the back of the housing.

[newshound]

Very cunning, I can see the appeal as an "emergency fix". Not sure I
would want to fit one to my own system as the main "post-stop cock"
isolator, though.

Still not exactly clear about where "debris" goes, and exactly where the
sealing faces are.

[Roger Mills]

On 09/05/2016 15:07, John Rumm wrote:
> On 09/05/2016 15:02, John Rumm wrote:

>>
>> They probably get flattened at the back of the valve...
>
> Ah, yes:
>
> http://aladdin-products.co.uk/products/easyfit-isolator/
>
> (that's also why there is a minimum drill torque spec, since it needs
> the power to crush the pipe).
>

Come on John, you know the difference between torque and power even if
Aladdin doesn't. To quote the article which you cite:

"Installing the cutter in a standard hard 0.7mm wall copper pipe
requires 16 Newton-Metres of drill power"!!!

[John Rumm]

On 09/05/2016 16:52, Roger Mills wrote:
> On 09/05/2016 15:07, John Rumm wrote:
>> On 09/05/2016 15:02, John Rumm wrote:
>
>>>
>>> They probably get flattened at the back of the valve...
>>
>> Ah, yes:
>>
>> http://aladdin-products.co.uk/products/easyfit-isolator/
>>
>> (that's also why there is a minimum drill torque spec, since it needs
>> the power to crush the pipe).
>>
>
> Come on John, you know the difference between torque and power even if
> Aladdin doesn't. To quote the article which you cite:
>
> "Installing the cutter in a standard hard 0.7mm wall copper pipe
> requires 16 Newton-Metres of drill power"!!!

Indeed, but I won't begrudge them that one, since I would guess most
would equate "a more powerful" drill as one that also has more torque.

(which will be generally true unless discussing particularly highly
geared designs)

[Bob Eager]

Look at the FAQ tab; there's a nice diagram.

[Tim Watts]

OK - I take it back:

http://aladdin-products.co.uk/products/easyfit-isolator/


It's not actually horrible - it's actually rather clever.

[Andy Burns]

Tim Watts wrote:

> http://aladdin-products.co.uk/products/easyfit-isolator/
> It's not actually horrible - it's actually rather clever.

But eighty quid for a single valve with required tools, and seventy-odd
quid per additional valve?

<https://www.amazon.co.uk/Aladdin-Easy-Isolator/dp/B00ZRLOGUM>

[Andy Burns]

Andy Burns wrote:

> eighty quid for a single valve with required tools

OK, so for once screwfix is cheaper than amazon ...

[Bob Eager]

By quite a long way! 45 quid?

[newshound]

Silly bugger that I am, I missed that. So, as I speculated, it shears
the pipe completely, but then inserts a full bore ball valve unit
presumably with integral seals, the whole being sealed to the housing
with static O rings.

It's a cunning bit of design, especially as it works with metric and
both UK and Irish Imperial dimensions.

[newshound]

Probably just about worth it for a plumber, given the time it saves over
freezing to install a "proper" full bore lever ball valve.

[newshound]

+1!

[Andy Burns]

newshound wrote:

> It's a cunning bit of design

They even sell another tool to allow replacing the valve core, still
keeping the water supply live, but somewhat less inspiring that you
might need to replace the core ...

<https://youtu.be/IuLagpjagDk>

I was hoping it would let you see what had happened to the pipe when it
was removed, but no such luck :-(

[Matthew Gould]

replying to GB, Matthew Gould wrote:
I installed two aladdin isolating valve successfully this afternoon coming off
the mains water pipe. However they have both suddenly stopped working not
allowing water through about 2 hours after both working well? I turned them
both off to install a new toilet and after being turned off for a few minutes
i turned them on again to refill the cistern and the flow stopped. The mains
to the block of flats is still functioning.
Is it possible the slugs are blocking the water flow if indeed the slugs are
free?
Any thoughts please?

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy/aladdin-isolator-valve-1128192-.htm

[Brian Gaff]

Now the original thread for this which is on Usenet is however still
viewable on this weird site Home owners club portal.
It might have been better given this is just a portal, to have either
started a new thread or at least quoted some of the old one since most
reading it are not going to go to the web site to read the back story.

My guess is that these devices are pretty crude, Anything that is supposed
to work as a tap on a working main without it being cut runs the risk of
jamming debris in the pipe and all sorts of other nasties in my view.

Sadly one cannot see into your pipe but I bet its jammed with bits of the
cutting or sealing process somehow. Yuk.
Brian

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[alan_m]

On 26/04/2019 07:37, Brian Gaff wrote:

> My guess is that these devices are pretty crude, Anything that is supposed
> to work as a tap on a working main without it being cut runs the risk of
> jamming debris in the pipe and all sorts of other nasties in my view.

Although you cannot see it Brian, there is a Youtube video of one being
dismantled. When fitting the valve the pipe is fully cut and the debris
compressed as a slug in the recess in the back of the fitting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9JSbIPLffM
the dismantling is after the pressure testing bit.

That is assuming that the valves have been installed correctly in the
first place and the cutter was fully wound in.

If the handle on the valve is working and can be turned than I doubt
that the debris slug could fully block the pipe and water would still
flow, maybe at a reduced rate.

One has to wonder if the fill valve to the toilet is actually the
problem and its that that is not opening to allow the toilet to fill?





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[GB]

On 26/04/2019 08:29, alan_m wrote:
> On 26/04/2019 07:37, Brian Gaff wrote:
>
>> My guess is that these devices are pretty crude, Anything that is
>> supposed
>> to work as a tap on a working main without it being cut runs the risk of
>> jamming debris in the pipe and all sorts of other nasties in my view.
>
> Although you cannot see it Brian, there is a Youtube video of one being
> dismantled.  When fitting the valve the pipe is fully cut and the debris
> compressed as a slug in the recess in the back of the fitting.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9JSbIPLffM
> the dismantling is after the pressure testing bit.
>
> That is assuming that the valves have been installed correctly in the
> first place and the cutter was fully wound in.

I had not seen that video before, Alan, so thanks for that. It's quite
clear from the video that, if the cutter is wound fully in, the slug is
held in place at the back of the fitting by the cutter.

The only possible reasons for the OP's issues are:
1. Defective Aladdin devices - both of them.
2. Incorrect installation.
3. Some other blockage.

Unfortunately, it's impossible to say which. I suggest the OP contacts
Aladdin customer service for advice.