Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss
How to make a ladder feeder survive the wind?
93 views
Skip to first unread message
Harry Bloomfield
May 19, 2015, 3:20:21 PM5/19/15
to
I had better explain what a ladder feeder is first...
This ought to be in uk.radio.amateur, but it has been full of trolls
for years and I will likely get more sensible suggestions here....
Its an antenna feeder cable, like a coax, but two separate parallel
wires spaced apart around 1.5inches. The feeder you buy, is solid steel
wire, copper plated, insulated by plastic, with the plastic insulation
forming a pierced gap, rather like a ladder.
It appears out of the loft, between the roof tiles, it then goes up to
feed a wire dipole. Imagine it coming out of the loft, the like a T
where it meets the wire dipole. The ends of the wire dipole terminate
at the front of the front garden and rear of the rear garden.
The problem is that the ladder feed keeps snapping too regularly,
because it is very exposed and is in constant movement due to the wind.
I replaced the commercial solid wire with 1.5mm flexible, spaced apart
to form a ladder with several strips made from the plastic of milk
bottles. Two small holes pierced either side, then feed the 1.5mm in
then out and it stays put.
Use more substantial wire and it catches the wind more. Put twists in
the ladder as it comes down and the wind causes it to try to rotate,
alternatively winding itself up and un winding, putting more stress at
the ends. I'm not sure whether it would be better taught, or more
loose.
I should just like it to survive more than the present couple of years
it presently lasts between replacement. It usually breaks, where it
appears out between the tiles, down at the angle of the roof, then
vertically up to the T. Adding metal around it is not an option, do to
the RF on the feeder. I've tried various ways to try to relieve the
stress, where it appears out from the tiles.
--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk
This ought to be in uk.radio.amateur, but it has been full of trolls
for years and I will likely get more sensible suggestions here....
Its an antenna feeder cable, like a coax, but two separate parallel
wires spaced apart around 1.5inches. The feeder you buy, is solid steel
wire, copper plated, insulated by plastic, with the plastic insulation
forming a pierced gap, rather like a ladder.
It appears out of the loft, between the roof tiles, it then goes up to
feed a wire dipole. Imagine it coming out of the loft, the like a T
where it meets the wire dipole. The ends of the wire dipole terminate
at the front of the front garden and rear of the rear garden.
The problem is that the ladder feed keeps snapping too regularly,
because it is very exposed and is in constant movement due to the wind.
I replaced the commercial solid wire with 1.5mm flexible, spaced apart
to form a ladder with several strips made from the plastic of milk
bottles. Two small holes pierced either side, then feed the 1.5mm in
then out and it stays put.
Use more substantial wire and it catches the wind more. Put twists in
the ladder as it comes down and the wind causes it to try to rotate,
alternatively winding itself up and un winding, putting more stress at
the ends. I'm not sure whether it would be better taught, or more
loose.
I should just like it to survive more than the present couple of years
it presently lasts between replacement. It usually breaks, where it
appears out between the tiles, down at the angle of the roof, then
vertically up to the T. Adding metal around it is not an option, do to
the RF on the feeder. I've tried various ways to try to relieve the
stress, where it appears out from the tiles.
--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk
Phil L
May 19, 2015, 3:31:13 PM5/19/15
to
"Harry Bloomfield" <harry...@NOSPAM.tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
news:mn.9cc47df5d2...@NOSPAM.tiscali.co.uk...
this is what's happening to your steel wire.
It needs to be more taut (not taught!) so that there's less play in it and
so it can't move as much.
I'm not sure i like the idea of it coming from under a roof tile neither,
then bending upwards at such an angle, can't it be re-routed so that it can
be clipped to brickwork? - a chimney perhaps, or up the outside wall and up
the roof that way? - it can be clipped to the tiles to prevent movement
Harry Bloomfield
May 19, 2015, 3:44:50 PM5/19/15
to
Phil L laid this down on his screen :
from under the tiles is a must, the chimney is quite some distance away
and would involve more ladder exposed to the wind/ more whipping
action. I think the main issue is stress relieving as it emerges from
the tiles, but everything I have so far tried, has just moved the point
of breakage to the far end of the stress relief.
Even if it were attached to the chimney, it would come under stress
where it left the last fixing on the chimney.
It has snapped again, needs to be repaired again - so the perfect time
to do a rethink.
> I'm not sure i like the idea of it coming from under a roof tile neither,
> then bending upwards at such an angle, can't it be re-routed so that it can
> be clipped to brickwork? - a chimney perhaps, or up the outside wall and up
> the roof that way? - it can be clipped to the tiles to prevent movement
I'm no longer using the steel wire, it is 1.5mm stranded copper. Out
> then bending upwards at such an angle, can't it be re-routed so that it can
> be clipped to brickwork? - a chimney perhaps, or up the outside wall and up
> the roof that way? - it can be clipped to the tiles to prevent movement
from under the tiles is a must, the chimney is quite some distance away
and would involve more ladder exposed to the wind/ more whipping
action. I think the main issue is stress relieving as it emerges from
the tiles, but everything I have so far tried, has just moved the point
of breakage to the far end of the stress relief.
Even if it were attached to the chimney, it would come under stress
where it left the last fixing on the chimney.
It has snapped again, needs to be repaired again - so the perfect time
to do a rethink.
Rod Speed
May 19, 2015, 3:48:20 PM5/19/15
to
news:mn.9cdc7df5f5...@NOSPAM.tiscali.co.uk...
Back in the say when that approach was used for TV antennas,
I don't recall any particular problem with it not lasting for long.
Presumably because there was enough plastic cover for the
wire that it didn't actually flex the copper wire inside it when
it blew around in the wind.
I don't recall any particular problem with it not lasting for long.
Presumably because there was enough plastic cover for the
wire that it didn't actually flex the copper wire inside it when
it blew around in the wind.
newshound
May 19, 2015, 3:51:34 PM5/19/15
to
you make your ladder out of polyester or nylon cord, tensioned where
possible to reduce the amount of movement, and then run your conductors
along it, tied every foot or so with cable ties, with a slight loop in
the conductor. Rather like you would take a mains supply to a garage via
an overhead straining wire.
Tim Lamb
May 19, 2015, 4:51:14 PM5/19/15
to
In message <7_2dnbtKRuqiCcbI...@brightview.co.uk>,
newshound <news...@stevejqr.plus.com> writes
Open Reach seem to manage with their overhead cabling.
The insulated cable is fed through a loosely wound steel spring. The
cumulative distortion gives a strong grip and transfers the cable
tension to the spring which is then attached to the supporting pole.
--
Tim Lamb
newshound <news...@stevejqr.plus.com> writes
The insulated cable is fed through a loosely wound steel spring. The
cumulative distortion gives a strong grip and transfers the cable
tension to the spring which is then attached to the supporting pole.
--
Tim Lamb
Harry Bloomfield
May 19, 2015, 5:09:51 PM5/19/15
to
newshound explained :
terminates, run both cord and ladder so far down and attached where it
is exposed, then let it run free of any support back to the roof and
under the tile. Fixing the support cord at the bottom, maybe near the
gutter.
It enters under the tile on the usually more sheltered side of the
house. The T is actually some 35 to 40 feet up by the way, but I made
it so it can all be quickly lowered down to an easy working height.
Thanks!
> I think you need to separate the "load carrying" part from the RF. Can you
> make your ladder out of polyester or nylon cord, tensioned where possible to
> reduce the amount of movement, and then run your conductors along it, tied
> every foot or so with cable ties, with a slight loop in the conductor. Rather
> like you would take a mains supply to a garage via an overhead straining
> wire.
That has promise. I could attach cord at the T where the ladder
> make your ladder out of polyester or nylon cord, tensioned where possible to
> reduce the amount of movement, and then run your conductors along it, tied
> every foot or so with cable ties, with a slight loop in the conductor. Rather
> like you would take a mains supply to a garage via an overhead straining
> wire.
terminates, run both cord and ladder so far down and attached where it
is exposed, then let it run free of any support back to the roof and
under the tile. Fixing the support cord at the bottom, maybe near the
gutter.
It enters under the tile on the usually more sheltered side of the
house. The T is actually some 35 to 40 feet up by the way, but I made
it so it can all be quickly lowered down to an easy working height.
Thanks!
Nightjar .me.uk>
May 19, 2015, 6:03:46 PM5/19/15
to
wires firmly to either side of that?
--
Colin Bignell
Message has been deleted
Denis McMahon
May 19, 2015, 11:14:12 PM5/19/15
to
On Tue, 19 May 2015 20:20:18 +0100, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
> I had better explain what a ladder feeder is first...
Run it inside a 2 inch plastic drainpipe?
> I had better explain what a ladder feeder is first...
--
Denis McMahon, denismf...@gmail.com
gareth
May 20, 2015, 3:32:52 AM5/20/15
to
"Harry Bloomfield" <harry...@NOSPAM.tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
news:mn.9cc47df5d2...@NOSPAM.tiscali.co.uk...
Class B licensees do not belong on HF.
gareth
May 20, 2015, 6:15:00 AM5/20/15
to
"gareth" <no....@thank.you.invalid> wrote in message
news:mjhd8t$l4b$1...@dont-email.me...
To get a licence post-war, you had to satisfy your technical competence by
passing the Radio Amateurs' Exam, a 3-hour traditional written paper,
following
which there were two classifications, class B where you could get a licence
straight away because you were perceived as a technologist who who would
pursue developments on VHF and higher frequenceies; and class A, the
traditional
licence for the short waves whereby you had to pass a further examination, a
12 words-per-minute Morse test.
There were many with the right moral fibre who wanted the short waves but
lacked
any interest in Morse and yet who tackled the Morse test and thus were
prepared
to put in the effort to get what they wanted.
Those class B licences who have now appeared on the short waves following
the
abolition of the Morse requirement were simply lacking the right moral fibre
to
tackle that test when it applied to them, and hence are held in derision by
all self-respecting _REAL_ Radio Hams.
YMMV
news:mjhd8t$l4b$1...@dont-email.me...
> "Harry Bloomfield" <harry...@NOSPAM.tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:mn.9cc47df5d2...@NOSPAM.tiscali.co.uk...
>
> Class B licensees do not belong on HF.
Quick explanation for those not of the Ham Radio / Amateur Radio persuasion.
> news:mn.9cc47df5d2...@NOSPAM.tiscali.co.uk...
>
> Class B licensees do not belong on HF.
To get a licence post-war, you had to satisfy your technical competence by
passing the Radio Amateurs' Exam, a 3-hour traditional written paper,
following
which there were two classifications, class B where you could get a licence
straight away because you were perceived as a technologist who who would
pursue developments on VHF and higher frequenceies; and class A, the
traditional
licence for the short waves whereby you had to pass a further examination, a
12 words-per-minute Morse test.
There were many with the right moral fibre who wanted the short waves but
lacked
any interest in Morse and yet who tackled the Morse test and thus were
prepared
to put in the effort to get what they wanted.
Those class B licences who have now appeared on the short waves following
the
abolition of the Morse requirement were simply lacking the right moral fibre
to
tackle that test when it applied to them, and hence are held in derision by
all self-respecting _REAL_ Radio Hams.
YMMV
tabb...@gmail.com
May 20, 2015, 6:36:07 AM5/20/15
to
NT
tony sayer
May 20, 2015, 1:45:49 PM5/20/15
to
In article <0bc31438-36f3-4170...@googlegroups.com>,
tabb...@gmail.com scribeth thus
--
Tony Sayer
tabb...@gmail.com scribeth thus
>On Tuesday, 19 May 2015 20:20:21 UTC+1, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
>> I had better explain what a ladder feeder is first...
>>
>> This ought to be in uk.radio.amateur, but it has been full of trolls
>> for years and I will likely get more sensible suggestions here....
>>
>> Its an antenna feeder cable, like a coax, but two separate parallel
>> wires spaced apart around 1.5inches. The feeder you buy, is solid steel
>> wire, copper plated, insulated by plastic, with the plastic insulation
>> forming a pierced gap, rather like a ladder.
What's wrong with Co-ax?....
>> I had better explain what a ladder feeder is first...
>>
>> This ought to be in uk.radio.amateur, but it has been full of trolls
>> for years and I will likely get more sensible suggestions here....
>>
>> Its an antenna feeder cable, like a coax, but two separate parallel
>> wires spaced apart around 1.5inches. The feeder you buy, is solid steel
>> wire, copper plated, insulated by plastic, with the plastic insulation
>> forming a pierced gap, rather like a ladder.
--
Tony Sayer
Message has been deleted
Brian-Gaff
May 20, 2015, 3:37:13 PM5/20/15
to
The trouble is that it needs to be in the open spaced away, or the impedance
and losses tend to alter.
I suspect though that the steel wire is not doing his installation any
favours as you note.
I suppose some plastic rope which is very taught with the feeder looped a
bit between the attach points might break up the resonant vibrations caused
by the wind on the flat shape.
Brian
--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Phil L" <neverc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2cM6x.564815$1B6.2...@fx08.am4...
and losses tend to alter.
I suspect though that the steel wire is not doing his installation any
favours as you note.
I suppose some plastic rope which is very taught with the feeder looped a
bit between the attach points might break up the resonant vibrations caused
by the wind on the flat shape.
Brian
--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Phil L" <neverc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2cM6x.564815$1B6.2...@fx08.am4...
Harry Bloomfield
May 21, 2015, 4:47:23 AM5/21/15
to
tony sayer laid this down on his screen :
The ladder has to be a ladder, to feed into an auto-tuner. The
auto-tuner then feeds onto coax. Balanced ladder line is a much more
efficient feeder than coax, especial at HF.
auto-tuner then feeds onto coax. Balanced ladder line is a much more
efficient feeder than coax, especial at HF.
Harry Bloomfield
May 21, 2015, 5:33:06 AM5/21/15
to
Harry Bloomfield used his keyboard to write :
am going to try....
1-------------S--------------T------------------------------------2
1 to 2 is around 50 metres, and is 2.5mm insulated flexible single
core.
1 is the point of suspension at the front.
S is way above the apex of the house and the highest point of the wire.
This is fixed to a vertical mast, the mast has an horizontal arm, with
the wire spaced down from the far end of the arm. As such, the wire
inverted V antenna, helps provide some stabilisation of the mast
itself.
T is where the ladder meets and connects to the arms of the wire, the
ladder feeder then just hangs down from there, then makes its way under
a roof tile some 8 feet below the T.
Point S has a short length of tough plastic which is slightly curved
and allows the actual wire antenna to easily move through it. That
allows me to lower the T down, by just undoing at point 1, attaching a
rope, and allowing the wire's own weight to lower point T down to an
easy working height when standing on a flat roof at the rear of the
house.
The actual active element, the wire from 1 to 2, never moves in the
wind and is the original wire I installed decades ago. The only issues
has been with the ladder feeder breaking - luckily I made it easy to
access for replacement.
The strips of plastic milk bottle have also proven to be fine for many
years, there has been no sign of any UV deterioration at all. It is
also a good RF insulator.
What I am going to try, is attaching a cord at point T, I will then
weave the cord in and out through the milk bottle insulators, most of
the way down the ladder. The lower end of the cord I will then fix
under the eaves. That should prevent the upper end of the ladder
catching the wind, with only the final section of the ladder loose
where it is sheltered and able to pass up under the tile from a much
better angle.
The auto-tuner is around 3 feet inside the loft, from where the ladder
feed passes under the tile. The tile is around 2/3rds the way down the
slope of the roof, from the top, the apex.
The mast itself, supports a 2m/70cms/30Mhz antenna on top and a 2.4 Ghz
link Yagi part way down.
2 is at the far end of the back garden.
The whole thing forms an inverted V.
> I should just like it to survive more than the present couple of years it
> presently lasts between replacement. It usually breaks, where it appears out
> between the tiles, down at the angle of the roof, then vertically up to the
> T. Adding metal around it is not an option, do to the RF on the feeder. I've
> tried various ways to try to relieve the stress, where it appears out from
> the tiles.
Right guys, thanks for the suggestions. Here is what I have and what I
> presently lasts between replacement. It usually breaks, where it appears out
> between the tiles, down at the angle of the roof, then vertically up to the
> T. Adding metal around it is not an option, do to the RF on the feeder. I've
> tried various ways to try to relieve the stress, where it appears out from
> the tiles.
am going to try....
1-------------S--------------T------------------------------------2
1 to 2 is around 50 metres, and is 2.5mm insulated flexible single
core.
1 is the point of suspension at the front.
S is way above the apex of the house and the highest point of the wire.
This is fixed to a vertical mast, the mast has an horizontal arm, with
the wire spaced down from the far end of the arm. As such, the wire
inverted V antenna, helps provide some stabilisation of the mast
itself.
T is where the ladder meets and connects to the arms of the wire, the
ladder feeder then just hangs down from there, then makes its way under
a roof tile some 8 feet below the T.
Point S has a short length of tough plastic which is slightly curved
and allows the actual wire antenna to easily move through it. That
allows me to lower the T down, by just undoing at point 1, attaching a
rope, and allowing the wire's own weight to lower point T down to an
easy working height when standing on a flat roof at the rear of the
house.
The actual active element, the wire from 1 to 2, never moves in the
wind and is the original wire I installed decades ago. The only issues
has been with the ladder feeder breaking - luckily I made it easy to
access for replacement.
The strips of plastic milk bottle have also proven to be fine for many
years, there has been no sign of any UV deterioration at all. It is
also a good RF insulator.
What I am going to try, is attaching a cord at point T, I will then
weave the cord in and out through the milk bottle insulators, most of
the way down the ladder. The lower end of the cord I will then fix
under the eaves. That should prevent the upper end of the ladder
catching the wind, with only the final section of the ladder loose
where it is sheltered and able to pass up under the tile from a much
better angle.
The auto-tuner is around 3 feet inside the loft, from where the ladder
feed passes under the tile. The tile is around 2/3rds the way down the
slope of the roof, from the top, the apex.
The mast itself, supports a 2m/70cms/30Mhz antenna on top and a 2.4 Ghz
link Yagi part way down.
2 is at the far end of the back garden.
The whole thing forms an inverted V.
Mike Tomlinson
May 21, 2015, 7:17:32 AM5/21/15
to
En el artículo <mjhmot$jpg$1...@dont-email.me>, gareth <no....@thank.you.invalid> escribió:
>held in derision by
>all self-respecting _REAL_ Radio Hams.
Self-respecting "real" hams such as your good self?
http://tinyurl.com/pq447zq
<http://www.thisiswiltshire.co.uk/news/headlines/9317744.Porn_slur_leads_to_dock/>
--
:: je suis Charlie :: yo soy Charlie :: ik ben Charlie ::
>held in derision by
>all self-respecting _REAL_ Radio Hams.
http://tinyurl.com/pq447zq
<http://www.thisiswiltshire.co.uk/news/headlines/9317744.Porn_slur_leads_to_dock/>
--
:: je suis Charlie :: yo soy Charlie :: ik ben Charlie ::
tony sayer
May 22, 2015, 6:46:26 AM5/22/15
to
In article <cs40tv...@mid.individual.net>, Huge
<Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> scribeth thus
>Baluns.
>
And what's wrong with impedance matching?...
--
Tony Sayer
<Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> scribeth thus
>
And what's wrong with impedance matching?...
--
Tony Sayer
tony sayer
May 22, 2015, 6:46:26 AM5/22/15
to
In article <mn.aa4b7df55d...@NOSPAM.tiscali.co.uk>, Harry
Bloomfield <harry...@NOSPAM.tiscali.co.uk> scribeth thus
Wonder why they don't use it for high power fM broadcast;?..
--
Tony Sayer
Bloomfield <harry...@NOSPAM.tiscali.co.uk> scribeth thus
--
Tony Sayer
mick
May 22, 2015, 4:10:05 PM5/22/15
to
On Wed, 20 May 2015 11:14:47 +0100, gareth wrote:
<snip>
A lot of us "failed class A" amateurs quite simply have no interest in
pointless morse chatter, whether it be on HF, VHF, UHF, microwave or
whatever. It's bad enough trying to coax your microwaves to travel
through a piece of plumbing, without bothering about what they are
carrying. :) My personal interest was originally RTTY, for which I simply
didn't need morse. I was quite happy for a long time playing on VHF. I
might even get on the air again once I retire. I'll be able to come and
upset you on HF then. :)
<snip>
>
> Those class B licences who have now appeared on the short waves
> following the abolition of the Morse requirement were simply lacking the
> right moral fibre to tackle that test when it applied to them, and hence
> are held in derision by all self-respecting _REAL_ Radio Hams.
>
> YMMV
That again... <yawn>
> Those class B licences who have now appeared on the short waves
> following the abolition of the Morse requirement were simply lacking the
> right moral fibre to tackle that test when it applied to them, and hence
> are held in derision by all self-respecting _REAL_ Radio Hams.
>
> YMMV
A lot of us "failed class A" amateurs quite simply have no interest in
pointless morse chatter, whether it be on HF, VHF, UHF, microwave or
whatever. It's bad enough trying to coax your microwaves to travel
through a piece of plumbing, without bothering about what they are
carrying. :) My personal interest was originally RTTY, for which I simply
didn't need morse. I was quite happy for a long time playing on VHF. I
might even get on the air again once I retire. I'll be able to come and
upset you on HF then. :)
mick
May 22, 2015, 4:16:43 PM5/22/15
to
On Thu, 21 May 2015 10:33:03 +0100, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
<snip>
Might S be better as a small plastic pulley? It would let the main system
move more freely in wind without adding to the stresses.
Also, I seem to remember seeing an article on building feeder using
spacers made from short lengths of clear plastic tubing. Supposed to be
more uv resistant or something.
<snip>
>
> Point S has a short length of tough plastic which is slightly curved and
> allows the actual wire antenna to easily move through it. That allows me
> to lower the T down, by just undoing at point 1, attaching a rope, and
> allowing the wire's own weight to lower point T down to an easy working
> height when standing on a flat roof at the rear of the house.
>
<snip>
> Point S has a short length of tough plastic which is slightly curved and
> allows the actual wire antenna to easily move through it. That allows me
> to lower the T down, by just undoing at point 1, attaching a rope, and
> allowing the wire's own weight to lower point T down to an easy working
> height when standing on a flat roof at the rear of the house.
>
Might S be better as a small plastic pulley? It would let the main system
move more freely in wind without adding to the stresses.
Also, I seem to remember seeing an article on building feeder using
spacers made from short lengths of clear plastic tubing. Supposed to be
more uv resistant or something.
gareth
May 22, 2015, 4:37:16 PM5/22/15
to
"mick" <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:555f8d1b$0$36725$b1db1813$e2fc...@news.astraweb.com...
>
> That again... <yawn>
Q. What is Ham Radio?
A. Ham Radio is a technical pursuit for those who
are interested in the science of radio wave
propagation and who are also interested in the
way that their radios function. It has a long-standing
tradition of providing a source of engineers who
are born naturals.
Ham Radio awakens in its aficionados a whole-life
fascination with all things technical and gives
an all-abiding curiosity to improve one's scientific
knowledge. It's a great swimming pool, please dive in!
This excitement causes a wish to share the experience
with ones fellow man, and shows itself in the
gentlemanly traditions of Ham Radio.
Radio Hams are in a unique privileged position in that
they can construct and operate their own equipment! No-one
else has this privilege. Users, such as broadcasters,
the po lice and armed farces, CBers and mobile phone
users have to purchase ready-made gear. Manufacturers
are not licensed to operate their gear. Radio Hams
are qualified to design, build and then
operate their own pieces of equipment. They do this
with gusto, and also repair and modify their own
equipment. This is a privilege well worth the effort
to gain, and one to be jealously guarded.
The excitement that drives a Radio Ham starts with
relatively simple technologies at first, perhaps making
his own Wimshurst machine and primary cells. Small pieces
of test equipment follow, possibly multimeters and signal
generators. Then comes receivers and transmitters. It is with
the latter that communication with like-minded technically
motivated people takes off. The scope for technical
development grows with the years and now encompasses DSP
and DDS. There is also a great deal
of excitement in the areas of computer programming to
be learnt and applied.
The technical excitement motivates Radio Hams to compete
with each other to determine who has designed and manufactured
the best-quality station. This competitiveness is found in DXing,
competitions and fox-hunts.
-----ooooo----
However, beware! A Ham Radio licence is such a
desirable thing to have that there are large
numbers of people who wish to be thought of
as Radio Hams when, in fact, they are nothing
of the kind! Usually such people are a
variation of the CB Radio hobbyist; they buy their
radios off the shelf and send them back to be
repaired; they are not interested in technical discussion
and sneer at those who are; they have no idea how
their radios work inside and have no wish to find out;
they are free with rather silly personal insults.
-----ooooo-----
One infallible way to disambiguate the CB Radio Hobbyist
from the _REAL_ Radio Ham is to solicit their view of the
difference between CB Radio and Ham Radio. A Radio Ham will
perceive Ham Radio to be a technical pursuit and will
perceive CB Radio to be a social communications facility
no different in essence to a land-line telephone or a
GSM mobile in the hands of a 6-year-old. Thus a Radio Ham
could also use a CB set safe in the knowledge that
such use says no more about him than having a land-line
telephone, whilst continuing to regard Ham Radio as a separate
technical pursuit.
A CB Radio hobbyist, on the other hand, sees no difference between
Ham Radio and CB Radio. To him, they are
sisters-under-the-skin. Wrongly, the CB Radio Hobbyist then
tries to classify himself as the equal of the Radio
Ham when, in fact, he is nothing of the kind.
Ham Radio is not CB Radio and has no common ground with it!
Ham Radio is _THE_ technical pursuit for gentlemen; CB Radio
is the name for the operating hobby for those who buy their
rigs and equipment off the shelf.
-----ooooo-----
If you are the sort of person who is motivated by
a technical interest in how things work; if you took apart
malfunctioning clocks, toasters and the like and put them
right despite never having seen them working, then
a Ham Radio licence is your traditional route! There has
never been a shortage of such people, and those who gravitate
towards such an interest have always been welcomed into
our shacks and their interests fostered. There is not today,
nor has there ever been, a need to go out and encourage
and press children, children who have never expressed an
interest in Ham Radio, to come into our shacks. Such an
activity should cause eyebrows to be raised - what
normal well-adjusted adults seek the social acquaintance
of children?!
-----ooooo-----
Please remember that this FAQ is a _POSITIVE EXHORTATION_
to you to exert yourselves to join our fraternity!
news:555f8d1b$0$36725$b1db1813$e2fc...@news.astraweb.com...
> On Wed, 20 May 2015 11:14:47 +0100, gareth wrote:
>>
>> YMMV
>>
>
> That again... <yawn>
Q. What is Ham Radio?
A. Ham Radio is a technical pursuit for those who
are interested in the science of radio wave
propagation and who are also interested in the
way that their radios function. It has a long-standing
tradition of providing a source of engineers who
are born naturals.
Ham Radio awakens in its aficionados a whole-life
fascination with all things technical and gives
an all-abiding curiosity to improve one's scientific
knowledge. It's a great swimming pool, please dive in!
This excitement causes a wish to share the experience
with ones fellow man, and shows itself in the
gentlemanly traditions of Ham Radio.
Radio Hams are in a unique privileged position in that
they can construct and operate their own equipment! No-one
else has this privilege. Users, such as broadcasters,
the po lice and armed farces, CBers and mobile phone
users have to purchase ready-made gear. Manufacturers
are not licensed to operate their gear. Radio Hams
are qualified to design, build and then
operate their own pieces of equipment. They do this
with gusto, and also repair and modify their own
equipment. This is a privilege well worth the effort
to gain, and one to be jealously guarded.
The excitement that drives a Radio Ham starts with
relatively simple technologies at first, perhaps making
his own Wimshurst machine and primary cells. Small pieces
of test equipment follow, possibly multimeters and signal
generators. Then comes receivers and transmitters. It is with
the latter that communication with like-minded technically
motivated people takes off. The scope for technical
development grows with the years and now encompasses DSP
and DDS. There is also a great deal
of excitement in the areas of computer programming to
be learnt and applied.
The technical excitement motivates Radio Hams to compete
with each other to determine who has designed and manufactured
the best-quality station. This competitiveness is found in DXing,
competitions and fox-hunts.
-----ooooo----
However, beware! A Ham Radio licence is such a
desirable thing to have that there are large
numbers of people who wish to be thought of
as Radio Hams when, in fact, they are nothing
of the kind! Usually such people are a
variation of the CB Radio hobbyist; they buy their
radios off the shelf and send them back to be
repaired; they are not interested in technical discussion
and sneer at those who are; they have no idea how
their radios work inside and have no wish to find out;
they are free with rather silly personal insults.
-----ooooo-----
One infallible way to disambiguate the CB Radio Hobbyist
from the _REAL_ Radio Ham is to solicit their view of the
difference between CB Radio and Ham Radio. A Radio Ham will
perceive Ham Radio to be a technical pursuit and will
perceive CB Radio to be a social communications facility
no different in essence to a land-line telephone or a
GSM mobile in the hands of a 6-year-old. Thus a Radio Ham
could also use a CB set safe in the knowledge that
such use says no more about him than having a land-line
telephone, whilst continuing to regard Ham Radio as a separate
technical pursuit.
A CB Radio hobbyist, on the other hand, sees no difference between
Ham Radio and CB Radio. To him, they are
sisters-under-the-skin. Wrongly, the CB Radio Hobbyist then
tries to classify himself as the equal of the Radio
Ham when, in fact, he is nothing of the kind.
Ham Radio is not CB Radio and has no common ground with it!
Ham Radio is _THE_ technical pursuit for gentlemen; CB Radio
is the name for the operating hobby for those who buy their
rigs and equipment off the shelf.
-----ooooo-----
If you are the sort of person who is motivated by
a technical interest in how things work; if you took apart
malfunctioning clocks, toasters and the like and put them
right despite never having seen them working, then
a Ham Radio licence is your traditional route! There has
never been a shortage of such people, and those who gravitate
towards such an interest have always been welcomed into
our shacks and their interests fostered. There is not today,
nor has there ever been, a need to go out and encourage
and press children, children who have never expressed an
interest in Ham Radio, to come into our shacks. Such an
activity should cause eyebrows to be raised - what
normal well-adjusted adults seek the social acquaintance
of children?!
-----ooooo-----
Please remember that this FAQ is a _POSITIVE EXHORTATION_
to you to exert yourselves to join our fraternity!
Mike Tomlinson
May 22, 2015, 5:43:09 PM5/22/15
to
En el artículo <555f8d1b$0$36725$b1db1813$e2fc...@news.astraweb.com>, mick
<inv...@invalid.invalid> escribió:
>I'll be able to come and
>upset you on HF then. :)
This is Gareth Alun Evans, of Chippenham, Wiltshire, whom you are interacting with. He is
an unpleasant troll, described by other posters as "a nasty piece of work" and "an odious
creature". He is remarkably thin skinned like most trolls, and is easily "upset". He
sends malicious emails to the employers of those who have "offended" him, for example:
<http://www.thisiswiltshire.co.uk/news/headlines/9317744.Porn_slur_leads_to_dock/>
This court case led to Gareth Alun Evans being handed a criminal conviction, a 3 year
conditional discharge, a large fine, a restraining order and a warning from the district
judge that if it happened again he would be looking at doing time.
Following a minor altercation online with him, he sent a malicious email to my employers
insinuating that I was a paedophile unsuited to working with young people and alleging
that I was abusing my employer's facilities and company time to post to usenet, despite
the fact that I post to usenet using my own account, from my own PC, using my own email
address, in my own time.
He scraped google to find out who I worked for and tried to involve my employer with the
intent of causing me maximum distress and harm. (He failed miserably, btw. We had a good
laugh at the hysterical email he sent to my superior and the director of the department I
worked for. He is also known for sending a malicious email to the King of Bahrain trying
to get an expat worker who also upset him sacked or worse. Yes, really.)
The law recently changed to increase the sentence handed down to internet trolls, viz:
"Other measures coming into force under the Criminal Justice and Court Act include a
crackdown on the use of cautions for serious crimes and increasing the maximum penalty
for online trolls who send abusive messages to two years imprisonment.
Currently sending an abusive message with the 'intention of causing distress or anxiety'
only carries a maximum sentence of six months"
<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11530889/Revenge-porn-New-
offence-comes-into-force.html>
His local police force, Wiltshire Police, are well aware of his activities. They are
compiling a dossier of information which will be submitted in evidence when it is
necessary to prosecute Evans again.
Given that Evans is looking at another appearance before the beak soon this change in the
law could not have come at a better time. Perhaps he will now learn (oink, flap) that
sending malicious poison pen emails to the employers of those he takes a dislike to has
consequences.
You may wish to consider whether you want to engage with this particularly unpleasant
character.
--
<inv...@invalid.invalid> escribió:
>I'll be able to come and
>upset you on HF then. :)
an unpleasant troll, described by other posters as "a nasty piece of work" and "an odious
creature". He is remarkably thin skinned like most trolls, and is easily "upset". He
sends malicious emails to the employers of those who have "offended" him, for example:
<http://www.thisiswiltshire.co.uk/news/headlines/9317744.Porn_slur_leads_to_dock/>
This court case led to Gareth Alun Evans being handed a criminal conviction, a 3 year
conditional discharge, a large fine, a restraining order and a warning from the district
judge that if it happened again he would be looking at doing time.
Following a minor altercation online with him, he sent a malicious email to my employers
insinuating that I was a paedophile unsuited to working with young people and alleging
that I was abusing my employer's facilities and company time to post to usenet, despite
the fact that I post to usenet using my own account, from my own PC, using my own email
address, in my own time.
He scraped google to find out who I worked for and tried to involve my employer with the
intent of causing me maximum distress and harm. (He failed miserably, btw. We had a good
laugh at the hysterical email he sent to my superior and the director of the department I
worked for. He is also known for sending a malicious email to the King of Bahrain trying
to get an expat worker who also upset him sacked or worse. Yes, really.)
The law recently changed to increase the sentence handed down to internet trolls, viz:
"Other measures coming into force under the Criminal Justice and Court Act include a
crackdown on the use of cautions for serious crimes and increasing the maximum penalty
for online trolls who send abusive messages to two years imprisonment.
Currently sending an abusive message with the 'intention of causing distress or anxiety'
only carries a maximum sentence of six months"
<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11530889/Revenge-porn-New-
offence-comes-into-force.html>
His local police force, Wiltshire Police, are well aware of his activities. They are
compiling a dossier of information which will be submitted in evidence when it is
necessary to prosecute Evans again.
Given that Evans is looking at another appearance before the beak soon this change in the
law could not have come at a better time. Perhaps he will now learn (oink, flap) that
sending malicious poison pen emails to the employers of those he takes a dislike to has
consequences.
You may wish to consider whether you want to engage with this particularly unpleasant
character.
--
tony sayer
May 23, 2015, 8:06:52 AM5/23/15
to
>If you are the sort of person who is motivated by
>a technical interest in how things work; if you took apart
>malfunctioning clocks, toasters and the like and put them
>right despite never having seen them working, then
>a Ham Radio licence is your traditional route! There has
>never been a shortage of such people, and those who gravitate
>towards such an interest have always been welcomed into
>our shacks and their interests fostered. There is not today,
>nor has there ever been, a need to go out and encourage
>and press children, children who have never expressed an
>interest in Ham Radio, to come into our shacks. Such an
>activity should cause eyebrows to be raised - what
>normal well-adjusted adults seek the social acquaintance
>of children?!
>
>-----ooooo-----
>
>Please remember that this FAQ is a _POSITIVE EXHORTATION_
>to you to exert yourselves to join our fraternity!
>
>
>
>
Ham radio is,
>a technical interest in how things work; if you took apart
>malfunctioning clocks, toasters and the like and put them
>right despite never having seen them working, then
>a Ham Radio licence is your traditional route! There has
>never been a shortage of such people, and those who gravitate
>towards such an interest have always been welcomed into
>our shacks and their interests fostered. There is not today,
>nor has there ever been, a need to go out and encourage
>and press children, children who have never expressed an
>interest in Ham Radio, to come into our shacks. Such an
>activity should cause eyebrows to be raised - what
>normal well-adjusted adults seek the social acquaintance
>of children?!
>
>-----ooooo-----
>
>Please remember that this FAQ is a _POSITIVE EXHORTATION_
>to you to exert yourselves to join our fraternity!
>
>
>
>
.-- .... -.-- ..- ... . .---- ----- ----- .-- --- .-. -.. ...
.-- .... . -. -.-- --- ..- -.-. .- -. ..- ... . .---- ----- --
..-- ----- ----- -----
--
Tony Sayer
Mike Tomlinson
May 23, 2015, 8:23:29 AM5/23/15
to
En el artículo <pvAfK1GQ...@bancom.co.uk>, tony sayer
<to...@bancom.co.uk> escribió:
>.-- .... -.-- ..- ... . .---- ----- ----- .-- --- .-. -.. ...
>.-- .... . -. -.-- --- ..- -.-. .- -. ..- ... . .---- ----- --
>..-- ----- ----- -----
-... . -.-. .- ..- ... . / .... . .----. ... / .- / ... .. .-.. .-.. -
.-- / .--. --- -- .--. --- ..- ... / --- .-.. -.. / ..-. .- .-. - ..--..
--
<to...@bancom.co.uk> escribió:
>.-- .... -.-- ..- ... . .---- ----- ----- .-- --- .-. -.. ...
>.-- .... . -. -.-- --- ..- -.-. .- -. ..- ... . .---- ----- --
>..-- ----- ----- -----
.-- / .--. --- -- .--. --- ..- ... / --- .-.. -.. / ..-. .- .-. - ..--..
--
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
gareth
May 23, 2015, 2:17:20 PM5/23/15
to
"Huge" <Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote in message
news:csbr67...@mid.individual.net...
>
> Don't encourage him. It's bad enough that u.r.a is full of this dross.
>
If it be your opinion that the maintenance of standards is dross,
then your opinion does not cast you in a favourable light.
news:csbr67...@mid.individual.net...
>
> Don't encourage him. It's bad enough that u.r.a is full of this dross.
>
If it be your opinion that the maintenance of standards is dross,
then your opinion does not cast you in a favourable light.
tony sayer
May 23, 2015, 3:18:46 PM5/23/15
to
In article <csbr4c...@mid.individual.net>, Huge
<Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> scribeth thus
>Nothing, but what has it got to do with balanced vs. unbalanced feeders?
>
Well a BALanced to UNbalance device is more often than not used to match
differing impedance's together..
--
Tony Sayer
<Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> scribeth thus
>
Well a BALanced to UNbalance device is more often than not used to match
differing impedance's together..
--
Tony Sayer
Johnny B Good
Jun 4, 2015, 11:57:11 AM6/4/15
to
On Wed, 20 May 2015 18:09:03 +0000, Huge wrote:
> On 2015-05-20, tony sayer <to...@bancom.co.uk> wrote:
> On 2015-05-20, tony sayer <to...@bancom.co.uk> wrote:
The need for a balun is the least of your problems. A ladder line fed
balanced dipole can be tuned up on a much wider range of frequencies,
ideally using a proper balanced output ATU but a broadband 1:2 (1:4z)
balun rated for the maximum power on the lowest frequency band of
interest (3.5 to 3.8MHz or '80 metres') can be, and usually is, used with
an unbalanced output ATU to quite good effect.
Removing the balun away from the feed point of a, typically, short wire
dipole at the end of a run of co-axial cable places it at a point where
it's sheltered from both the weather and the greater, more unpredictable,
extremes of voltage and current standing wave variations to be found at
the feedpoints of such antennas.
At least, when it's in the shack, you can see/hear/smell when it's being
over-stressed, assuming the tuning capacitors in the ATU aren't already
providing their own hint of extreme voltages (and currents elsewhere in
the tuning network).
The cost of fabricating the ladder line (open wire feeder) is a damn
sight cheaper than the cost of acquiring the necessary high grade Andrews
co-axial cable equivalent (and an even beefier and over-specced balun).
Co-ax does have the charm that it isn't sensitive to its immediate
surroundings but it does require that the antenna feed point be
reasonably well matched to the feeder impedance.
The ladder line (open wire feeder) requires some consideration in regard
to its immediate surroundings (brickwork, metalwork, and other structural
materials) which may vary in their effect due to precipitation.
The line losses of open wire feeder are considerably lower than that in
co-axial cable feeders when operating the line under high VSWR conditions
(20:1 or higher) so typical of broadband operation of a short "All Band"
dipole antenna setup which is their main appeal to amateur radio
operators.
--
Johnny B Good
Johnny B Good
Jun 4, 2015, 12:19:30 PM6/4/15
to
normally considered to be a process that takes the unbalanced transmitter
output via short co-axial patch lead into the ATU (Antenna Tuning Unit -
which may or may not be automatic) which acts as a tuned impedance
matching transformer feeding a pretty beefy 1:2 or 1:4 (1:4 or 1:16
impedance) balun to drive the end of the open wire line feeder. More
ideally, in this case, would be a balanced ATU using ganged tuning
capacitors and coils fed from a 1:2 input balun of more modest rating,
allowing the two outputs of the dual ganged ATU to feed each wire of the
open wire feeder directly.
>>
>>
> Wonder why they don't use it for high power fM broadcast;?..
frequency, well matched setup that allows the transmission line to
operate very close to 1:1 VSWR. The metal mast often carries more than
one antenna array and the immunity of co-axial feeder to other cables and
the mast itself simplifies the feeder routing. Co-ax in this usage case
is a match made in heaven. Open wire feeder, otoh, simply isn't a
practical solution in this case.
--
Johnny B Good
tony sayer
Jun 4, 2015, 2:23:01 PM6/4/15
to
In article <jU_bx.611577$JH2.4...@fx11.am4>, Johnny B Good <johnny-b-
go...@invalid.ntlworld.com> scribeth thus
Well something like the Alan Dick Spearhead array can cover most all of
Band 2 in one hit as was well as the use of panel aerials in UHF TV
transmission, these are rather wideband devices.
Tower space is rather, no very expensive to rent, so combining into a
broadband array....
http://www.alandickbroadcast.com/Pages/FM-Antennas.aspx
>The metal mast often carries more than
>one antenna array and the immunity of co-axial feeder to other cables and
>the mast itself simplifies the feeder routing. Co-ax in this usage case
>is a match made in heaven.
Isn't it just;!..
>Open wire feeder, otoh, simply isn't a
>practical solution in this case.
>
>
It is used in short-wave stations ...
--
Tony Sayer
go...@invalid.ntlworld.com> scribeth thus
Band 2 in one hit as was well as the use of panel aerials in UHF TV
transmission, these are rather wideband devices.
Tower space is rather, no very expensive to rent, so combining into a
broadband array....
http://www.alandickbroadcast.com/Pages/FM-Antennas.aspx
>The metal mast often carries more than
>one antenna array and the immunity of co-axial feeder to other cables and
>the mast itself simplifies the feeder routing. Co-ax in this usage case
>is a match made in heaven.
>Open wire feeder, otoh, simply isn't a
>practical solution in this case.
>
>
--
Tony Sayer
0 new messages