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Hive central heating controller - one channel or two
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NY
Nov 25, 2016, 5:34:52 AM11/25/16
to
We're thinking of getting a Hive remote-controlled central heating
controller/thermostat so we can set our heating to come on several hours
before we get home from holiday etc.
I'm trying to work out whether we need a single- or dual-channel controller.
Hive's customer support was dire: they wouldn't offer any advice and just
said "speak to a qualified central heating installer". Imagine not being
able to offer any pre-sales advice!
We have a combi boiler which currently has a dual-timer: one for the central
heating and one for the hot water. The hot water is pre-heated in a
reservoir in the boiler, hence the reason for being able to time when that
pre-heat comes on and off, so it's not wasting fuel keeping the reservoir
hot overnight.
Hive say "single-channel for combi; dual channel for conventional boiler
with hot water cylinder". Our system sounds as if it has some features of
both: it's mostly heat-on-demand but with timed pre-heat of a small
reservoir in the boiler.
So, single or dual?
controller/thermostat so we can set our heating to come on several hours
before we get home from holiday etc.
I'm trying to work out whether we need a single- or dual-channel controller.
Hive's customer support was dire: they wouldn't offer any advice and just
said "speak to a qualified central heating installer". Imagine not being
able to offer any pre-sales advice!
We have a combi boiler which currently has a dual-timer: one for the central
heating and one for the hot water. The hot water is pre-heated in a
reservoir in the boiler, hence the reason for being able to time when that
pre-heat comes on and off, so it's not wasting fuel keeping the reservoir
hot overnight.
Hive say "single-channel for combi; dual channel for conventional boiler
with hot water cylinder". Our system sounds as if it has some features of
both: it's mostly heat-on-demand but with timed pre-heat of a small
reservoir in the boiler.
So, single or dual?
Dave Plowman (News)
Nov 25, 2016, 6:12:52 AM11/25/16
to
In article <Ge-dnYaEa_xWjqXF...@brightview.co.uk>,
If you have a combi, why would you want remote control of on/off for the
water? The tap does that.
Also, are you sure your system doesn't already allow you to set it while
away on holiday? So it comes on the day or whatever you return? Even if a
day or two out, you're not going to use the gas cost of one of these.
I'm not surprised they say to ask a specialist. My guess is it will only
work with a *very* basic system. One with no microprocessor control.
--
*Bigamy is having one wife too many - monogamy is the same
Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
water? The tap does that.
Also, are you sure your system doesn't already allow you to set it while
away on holiday? So it comes on the day or whatever you return? Even if a
day or two out, you're not going to use the gas cost of one of these.
I'm not surprised they say to ask a specialist. My guess is it will only
work with a *very* basic system. One with no microprocessor control.
--
*Bigamy is having one wife too many - monogamy is the same
Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
MrCheerful
Nov 25, 2016, 6:20:38 AM11/25/16
to
could ever need or foresee wanting.
Andrew Gabriel
Nov 25, 2016, 7:04:37 AM11/25/16
to
In article <Ge-dnYaEa_xWjqXF...@brightview.co.uk>,
Single, and turn off the hot water pre-heat whilst you are away,
or turn off the hot water heating entirely is that's possible.
Only reason for dual would be if you have multiple heating zones,
or to heat a hot water storage cyclider.
Actually, what you want is to leave the heating on 24x7 whilst you
are away, setback to frost protection. It depends where the stat is,
but 10C is probably the lowest you can go and some insurance companies
require 15C. If you have frost stats physically located in all the
vulnerable places, you can risk lower.
I would assume Hive can do this, but I'm not familar with its capability.
--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
or turn off the hot water heating entirely is that's possible.
Only reason for dual would be if you have multiple heating zones,
or to heat a hot water storage cyclider.
Actually, what you want is to leave the heating on 24x7 whilst you
are away, setback to frost protection. It depends where the stat is,
but 10C is probably the lowest you can go and some insurance companies
require 15C. If you have frost stats physically located in all the
vulnerable places, you can risk lower.
I would assume Hive can do this, but I'm not familar with its capability.
--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
Peter Andrews
Nov 25, 2016, 7:33:23 AM11/25/16
to
On 25/11/2016 10:33, NY wrote:
have full details of my usage, i.e. every time it went on/off, etc.
Quite apart from the subscription charge, at that (any) price I can live
without it.
Peter
tim...
Nov 25, 2016, 7:39:34 AM11/25/16
to
"NY" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:Ge-dnYaEa_xWjqXF...@brightview.co.uk...
> We're thinking of getting a Hive remote-controlled central heating
> controller/thermostat so we can set our heating to come on several hours
> before we get home from holiday etc.
seems a pretty weak reason for spending 150 quid on a "toy"
> controller/thermostat so we can set our heating to come on several hours
> before we get home from holiday etc.
tim
charles
Nov 25, 2016, 7:49:26 AM11/25/16
to
In article <o19bbp$r1h$1...@dont-email.me>, tim... <tims_n...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
and I can do this with my Honeywell Programmable Thermostat. I simply set
it before I leave home.
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
wrote:
it before I leave home.
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
NY
Nov 25, 2016, 8:20:07 AM11/25/16
to
"Dave Plowman (News)" <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:55e4844...@davenoise.co.uk...
the water, so it doesn't heat it overnight. That's independent of the
on-demand heating of water. I imagine that when you turn on the tap, the
water that comes out of the tap (excluding what's in the pipe) initially
comes from the pre-heat reservoir, to give the boiler time to start heating
cold water - otherwise it would take a long time to run warm.
> Also, are you sure your system doesn't already allow you to set it while
> away on holiday? So it comes on the day or whatever you return? Even if a
> day or two out, you're not going to use the gas cost of one of these.
As far as I know, the controller just has time-on, time-off settings - I'm
not aware that you can say "from dates d1 to d2 come on between these hours,
but otherwise come on between these hours".
Anyway, what we want is "between these dates, heat the house to a frost-free
temperature; otherwise heat to a normal temperature". Since the boiler is
outside, any frost stat in the boiler will just be to keep the boiler itself
from freezing, not to prevent the house (eg water pipes) from freezing.
My understanding of the Hive (as regards central heating) is that it
functions as a combination of timer controller and thermostat, so as to turn
on the boiler when some condition is met. And that condition is a function
both of room temperature and time of day, so you can tell it to set the
thermostat to frost setting overnight, maybe high temperature in the morning
and evening, and a medium temp during the day so the boiler doesn't have to
work as hard to re-heat the house ready for when we come home.
news:55e4844...@davenoise.co.uk...
> In article <Ge-dnYaEa_xWjqXF...@brightview.co.uk>,
> NY <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>> We're thinking of getting a Hive remote-controlled central heating
>> controller/thermostat so we can set our heating to come on several hours
>> before we get home from holiday etc.
>
>> I'm trying to work out whether we need a single- or dual-channel
>> controller. Hive's customer support was dire: they wouldn't offer any
>> advice and just said "speak to a qualified central heating installer".
>> Imagine not being able to offer any pre-sales advice!
>
>> We have a combi boiler which currently has a dual-timer: one for the
>> central heating and one for the hot water. The hot water is pre-heated
>> in a reservoir in the boiler, hence the reason for being able to time
>> when that pre-heat comes on and off, so it's not wasting fuel keeping
>> the reservoir hot overnight.
>
>> Hive say "single-channel for combi; dual channel for conventional boiler
>> with hot water cylinder". Our system sounds as if it has some features
>> of both: it's mostly heat-on-demand but with timed pre-heat of a small
>> reservoir in the boiler.
>
>> So, single or dual?
>
> If you have a combi, why would you want remote control of on/off for the
> water? The tap does that.
Yes but we need to be able to control the hours that the boiler pre-heats
> NY <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>> We're thinking of getting a Hive remote-controlled central heating
>> controller/thermostat so we can set our heating to come on several hours
>> before we get home from holiday etc.
>
>> I'm trying to work out whether we need a single- or dual-channel
>> controller. Hive's customer support was dire: they wouldn't offer any
>> advice and just said "speak to a qualified central heating installer".
>> Imagine not being able to offer any pre-sales advice!
>
>> We have a combi boiler which currently has a dual-timer: one for the
>> central heating and one for the hot water. The hot water is pre-heated
>> in a reservoir in the boiler, hence the reason for being able to time
>> when that pre-heat comes on and off, so it's not wasting fuel keeping
>> the reservoir hot overnight.
>
>> Hive say "single-channel for combi; dual channel for conventional boiler
>> with hot water cylinder". Our system sounds as if it has some features
>> of both: it's mostly heat-on-demand but with timed pre-heat of a small
>> reservoir in the boiler.
>
>> So, single or dual?
>
> If you have a combi, why would you want remote control of on/off for the
> water? The tap does that.
the water, so it doesn't heat it overnight. That's independent of the
on-demand heating of water. I imagine that when you turn on the tap, the
water that comes out of the tap (excluding what's in the pipe) initially
comes from the pre-heat reservoir, to give the boiler time to start heating
cold water - otherwise it would take a long time to run warm.
> Also, are you sure your system doesn't already allow you to set it while
> away on holiday? So it comes on the day or whatever you return? Even if a
> day or two out, you're not going to use the gas cost of one of these.
not aware that you can say "from dates d1 to d2 come on between these hours,
but otherwise come on between these hours".
Anyway, what we want is "between these dates, heat the house to a frost-free
temperature; otherwise heat to a normal temperature". Since the boiler is
outside, any frost stat in the boiler will just be to keep the boiler itself
from freezing, not to prevent the house (eg water pipes) from freezing.
My understanding of the Hive (as regards central heating) is that it
functions as a combination of timer controller and thermostat, so as to turn
on the boiler when some condition is met. And that condition is a function
both of room temperature and time of day, so you can tell it to set the
thermostat to frost setting overnight, maybe high temperature in the morning
and evening, and a medium temp during the day so the boiler doesn't have to
work as hard to re-heat the house ready for when we come home.
Graham.
Nov 25, 2016, 8:48:40 AM11/25/16
to
On Fri, 25 Nov 2016 12:40:12 -0000, "tim..." <tims_n...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Both couples I know who have Hives, also own iPhones and update the
anually to the latest model. That should tell you all you need to know
;-)
--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%
wrote:
anually to the latest model. That should tell you all you need to know
;-)
--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%
The Natural Philosopher
Nov 25, 2016, 8:52:08 AM11/25/16
to
"Solutions to problems I never knew I didn't have"
--
"Women actually are capable of being far more than the feminists will
let them."
bm
Nov 25, 2016, 9:19:14 AM11/25/16
to
"Graham." <graham...@mail.com> wrote in message
news:01fg3c1mu8dd2s3k7...@4ax.com...
LOL.
tim...
Nov 25, 2016, 9:41:39 AM11/25/16
to
"Peter Andrews" <p...@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:o19b05$pu7$1...@dont-email.me...
I thought it was free to use once you had paid the inflated price to buy it
tim
Dave Plowman (News)
Nov 25, 2016, 9:58:45 AM11/25/16
to
In article <Y6mdneQmzZoYp6XF...@brightview.co.uk>,
your money than on Hive.
--
*Do they ever shut up on your planet?
NY <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> > Also, are you sure your system doesn't already allow you to set it
> > while away on holiday? So it comes on the day or whatever you return?
> > Even if a day or two out, you're not going to use the gas cost of one
> > of these.
> As far as I know, the controller just has time-on, time-off settings -
> I'm not aware that you can say "from dates d1 to d2 come on between
> these hours, but otherwise come on between these hours".
> Anyway, what we want is "between these dates, heat the house to a
> frost-free temperature; otherwise heat to a normal temperature". Since
> the boiler is outside, any frost stat in the boiler will just be to keep
> the boiler itself from freezing, not to prevent the house (eg water
> pipes) from freezing.
Sounds like you need to update to modern controls. Far better way to spend
> > Also, are you sure your system doesn't already allow you to set it
> > while away on holiday? So it comes on the day or whatever you return?
> > Even if a day or two out, you're not going to use the gas cost of one
> > of these.
> As far as I know, the controller just has time-on, time-off settings -
> I'm not aware that you can say "from dates d1 to d2 come on between
> these hours, but otherwise come on between these hours".
> Anyway, what we want is "between these dates, heat the house to a
> frost-free temperature; otherwise heat to a normal temperature". Since
> the boiler is outside, any frost stat in the boiler will just be to keep
> the boiler itself from freezing, not to prevent the house (eg water
> pipes) from freezing.
your money than on Hive.
--
*Do they ever shut up on your planet?
NY
Nov 25, 2016, 10:02:17 AM11/25/16
to
"tim..." <tims_n...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:o19igm$lj7$1...@dont-email.me...
It *is* free. Peter Andrews may have been thinking of the "rental" version
available as an alternative to outright purchase for British Gas customers.
I assume that in the subscription model, you are paying to rent the Hive
controller - three boxes: "hub" which is wired to router and talks
wirelessly (maybe by private wireless network) to "receiver" which is the
on-off switches for the CH and hot water systems and the "thermostat" which
includes user controls such as boost, temp up/down in addition to on-line
controls.
news:o19igm$lj7$1...@dont-email.me...
available as an alternative to outright purchase for British Gas customers.
I assume that in the subscription model, you are paying to rent the Hive
controller - three boxes: "hub" which is wired to router and talks
wirelessly (maybe by private wireless network) to "receiver" which is the
on-off switches for the CH and hot water systems and the "thermostat" which
includes user controls such as boost, temp up/down in addition to on-line
controls.
Brian Gaff
Nov 26, 2016, 4:16:25 AM11/26/16
to
How long does it take to heat water, and does it heat water if the heating
is on already?
If time is short or answer yes then single channel if water heat long or
separate to heating always, then 2
grin. The more I read about ch complexity, the more I'm glad I don't have
it!
Brian
--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please!
is on already?
If time is short or answer yes then single channel if water heat long or
separate to heating always, then 2
grin. The more I read about ch complexity, the more I'm glad I don't have
it!
Brian
--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please!
MrCheerful
Nov 26, 2016, 4:23:55 AM11/26/16
to
On 26/11/2016 09:16, Brian Gaff wrote:
> How long does it take to heat water, and does it heat water if the heating
> is on already?
> If time is short or answer yes then single channel if water heat long or
> separate to heating always, then 2
>
> grin. The more I read about ch complexity, the more I'm glad I don't have
> it!
>
> Brian
>
I thought that till and while I was installing it, since then (one year)
> How long does it take to heat water, and does it heat water if the heating
> is on already?
> If time is short or answer yes then single channel if water heat long or
> separate to heating always, then 2
>
> grin. The more I read about ch complexity, the more I'm glad I don't have
> it!
>
> Brian
>
it has been good as gold.
Gas Boiler (in loft)
15 rads
Thermal store (in loft)
Solid fuel back boiler (being assimilated at present)
Solar thermal (to install next year)
Evohome control system
Dave Plowman (News)
Nov 26, 2016, 6:33:09 AM11/26/16
to
In article <o1bjqr$k8$1...@dont-email.me>,
--
*HOW IS IT POSSIBLE TO HAVE A CIVIL WAR?
Brian Gaff <bri...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> How long does it take to heat water, and does it heat water if the
> heating is on already? If time is short or answer yes then single
> channel if water heat long or separate to heating always, then 2
> grin. The more I read about ch complexity, the more I'm glad I don't
> have it!
How do you heat your place?
> How long does it take to heat water, and does it heat water if the
> heating is on already? If time is short or answer yes then single
> channel if water heat long or separate to heating always, then 2
> grin. The more I read about ch complexity, the more I'm glad I don't
> have it!
--
*HOW IS IT POSSIBLE TO HAVE A CIVIL WAR?
RJH
Nov 26, 2016, 7:03:30 AM11/26/16
to
past 5 years. I'm not sure if the new ones are the same - but mine is
just a plug-in replacement for a standard thermostat. I didn't want one
with power supply and receiver box.
An extra with mine is the need for a managed DNS address. It costs me
about £25pa with Dyn - but I use it for other things. I think some
manufacturers include it.
I find it quite useful as my hours are irregular.
And I'm sure remote controls, mobile phones and horseless carriages were
once considered 'toys' too. Oh the young things today, whatever next :-)
--
Cheers, Rob
Andy Burns
Nov 26, 2016, 7:08:56 AM11/26/16
to
RJH wrote:
> I've a Heatmiser
Me too, which model do you have?
You're aware that all their older models with direct access from the
internet turned out to be less secure than a wet paper bag?
> I've a Heatmiser
Me too, which model do you have?
You're aware that all their older models with direct access from the
internet turned out to be less secure than a wet paper bag?
Dave Plowman (News)
Nov 26, 2016, 7:59:19 AM11/26/16
to
In article <o1btk3$u87$1...@dont-email.me>,
So were mine. So I installed an additional programmer in the kitchen in a
convenient place. So just altered the on time if needed before leaving for
work.
> And I'm sure remote controls, mobile phones and horseless carriages were
> once considered 'toys' too. Oh the young things today, whatever next :-)
Thing is I can't think of when I'd ever use it. Since I'd made altering
the on time easy - long before such things arrived.
--
*How does Moses make his tea? Hebrews it.*
So were mine. So I installed an additional programmer in the kitchen in a
convenient place. So just altered the on time if needed before leaving for
work.
> And I'm sure remote controls, mobile phones and horseless carriages were
> once considered 'toys' too. Oh the young things today, whatever next :-)
the on time easy - long before such things arrived.
--
*How does Moses make his tea? Hebrews it.*
RJH
Nov 26, 2016, 8:03:08 AM11/26/16
to
On 26/11/2016 12:09, Andy Burns wrote:
> RJH wrote:
>
>> I've a Heatmiser
>
> Me too, which model do you have?
>
PRT-TS
> RJH wrote:
>
>> I've a Heatmiser
>
> Me too, which model do you have?
>
> You're aware that all their older models with direct access from the
> internet turned out to be less secure than a wet paper bag?
>
but forget the details.
I got a letter from them saying I could swap it out or get a credit.
When I tried to do that (either, I wasn't bothered) I got mired in
various denials and definitions of the words swap and credit. I think
perhaps they'd had a change of MD and decided to front it out. 'Ruth',
the admin dealing with it, closed all correspondence and refused to
provide details of the MD or further redress.
The wider saga here:
http://cybergibbons.com/security-2/heatmiser-wifi-thermostat-vulnerabilities/
I could have mentioned that ;-)
--
Cheers, Rob
RJH
Nov 26, 2016, 8:47:19 AM11/26/16
to
On 26/11/2016 12:54, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <o1btk3$u87$1...@dont-email.me>,
> RJH <patch...@gmx.com> wrote:
>> I find it quite useful as my hours are irregular.
>
> So were mine. So I installed an additional programmer in the kitchen in a
> convenient place. So just altered the on time if needed before leaving for
> work.
>
Mine are more unpredictable than that. Last night I went for an
> In article <o1btk3$u87$1...@dont-email.me>,
> RJH <patch...@gmx.com> wrote:
>> I find it quite useful as my hours are irregular.
>
> So were mine. So I installed an additional programmer in the kitchen in a
> convenient place. So just altered the on time if needed before leaving for
> work.
>
unscheduled drink for example - got back at 8.00, set the heating just
before I left the pub.
>> And I'm sure remote controls, mobile phones and horseless carriages were
>> once considered 'toys' too. Oh the young things today, whatever next :-)
>
> Thing is I can't think of when I'd ever use it. Since I'd made altering
> the on time easy - long before such things arrived.
>
frivolousness. Even I can wait 20 minutes while the house warms. For me
it's probably more expensive in gas, given my tendency now to preheat
the house.
It's there in the shops, I can afford it, it is of some use and I get
some enjoyment out of using it, so I've got it. Should I? Dunno.
--
Cheers, Rob
Dave Plowman (News)
Nov 26, 2016, 10:26:20 AM11/26/16
to
In article <o1c3mo$ijo$1...@dont-email.me>,
no-one else in the house I have it switched off during the day. So it
needs a couple of hours to come up to what I want on a cold evening.
> >> And I'm sure remote controls, mobile phones and horseless carriages
> >> were once considered 'toys' too. Oh the young things today, whatever
> >> next :-)
> >
> > Thing is I can't think of when I'd ever use it. Since I'd made altering
> > the on time easy - long before such things arrived.
> >
> Of course, I accept it's not for everyone, and I'd concede an element of
> frivolousness. Even I can wait 20 minutes while the house warms. For me
> it's probably more expensive in gas, given my tendency now to preheat
> the house.
> It's there in the shops, I can afford it, it is of some use and I get
> some enjoyment out of using it, so I've got it. Should I? Dunno.
That is perfectly acceptable. It's those who say 'this is what you need'
without knowing anything about you that annoy. Like those bloody ads on
the telly. And some on here, of course.
--
*Why do overlook and oversee mean opposite things? *
RJH <patch...@gmx.com> wrote:
> On 26/11/2016 12:54, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> > In article <o1btk3$u87$1...@dont-email.me>,
> > RJH <patch...@gmx.com> wrote:
> >> I find it quite useful as my hours are irregular.
> >
> > So were mine. So I installed an additional programmer in the kitchen in a
> > convenient place. So just altered the on time if needed before leaving for
> > work.
> >
> Mine are more unpredictable than that. Last night I went for an
> unscheduled drink for example - got back at 8.00, set the heating just
> before I left the pub.
Snag is this place takes quite a time to come up to temperature. With
> On 26/11/2016 12:54, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> > In article <o1btk3$u87$1...@dont-email.me>,
> > RJH <patch...@gmx.com> wrote:
> >> I find it quite useful as my hours are irregular.
> >
> > So were mine. So I installed an additional programmer in the kitchen in a
> > convenient place. So just altered the on time if needed before leaving for
> > work.
> >
> Mine are more unpredictable than that. Last night I went for an
> unscheduled drink for example - got back at 8.00, set the heating just
> before I left the pub.
no-one else in the house I have it switched off during the day. So it
needs a couple of hours to come up to what I want on a cold evening.
> >> And I'm sure remote controls, mobile phones and horseless carriages
> >> were once considered 'toys' too. Oh the young things today, whatever
> >> next :-)
> >
> > Thing is I can't think of when I'd ever use it. Since I'd made altering
> > the on time easy - long before such things arrived.
> >
> Of course, I accept it's not for everyone, and I'd concede an element of
> frivolousness. Even I can wait 20 minutes while the house warms. For me
> it's probably more expensive in gas, given my tendency now to preheat
> the house.
> It's there in the shops, I can afford it, it is of some use and I get
> some enjoyment out of using it, so I've got it. Should I? Dunno.
without knowing anything about you that annoy. Like those bloody ads on
the telly. And some on here, of course.
--
*Why do overlook and oversee mean opposite things? *
Graham.
Nov 26, 2016, 3:45:26 PM11/26/16
to
https://www.dlinkddns.com/signin/
and submit the MAC and S/N of any old D-Link router.
You can then use your credentials to http://dyn.com/ and even add a
.dyndns host to your account.
It's amazing the angles that some eBayers photograph their routers.
Not suggesting anything, just saying.
--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%
The Natural Philosopher
Nov 26, 2016, 3:48:06 PM11/26/16
to
> I'm sure remote controls, mobile phones and horseless carriages were
>once considered 'toys' too.
--
“But what a weak barrier is truth when it stands in the way of an
hypothesis!”
Mary Wollstonecraft
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