burglar alarm tripping on power cut

[therustyone]

Just bought a house with Eurosec CP8L LCD burglar alarm system, new built in 2003 along with a handful of matching ones down the road. Whenever there is a power cut, most of the alarms go off together, making a horrendous racket.
The local installation/maintenance firm seems to be no longer functioning.

Is this likely to be a back-up battery problem, and something I can fix. When there is a power cut the little LCD display at the front door goes blank and doesn't respond to any entries to try to stop it. The main box inside, which I think houses the battery, runs pretty warm. If I take the front off it might set the alarm off!

[Andy Burns]

therustyone wrote:

> Just bought a house with Eurosec CP8L LCD burglar alarm system, new
> built in 2003 along with a handful of matching ones down the road.
> Whenever there is a power cut, most of the alarms go off together,
> making a horrendous racket.

Sounds like the battery in the panel has outlived the battery in the
bell-box, just like most of the alarms around here :-(

If you haven't got the engineers code, it'll go off when you open it and
probably refuse to reset afterwards.

There are various webforums dealing with alarm systems, but the
inhabitants tend to be somewhat cagey about giving out help ...

[Andy Burns]

Andy Burns wrote:

> Sounds like the battery in the panel has outlived the battery in the
> bell-box,

Sorry ... vice-versa, but you get the picture ...

[meow...@care2.com]

Probably dead lead acids.


NT

[charles]

In article <875cde0d-fcf7-42a4...@googlegroups.com>,

Alarms on business premises need to have their batteries changed after 5
years. Yours would seem to be about 11 years old. Almost certainly a
replacement battery is needed. When I used to maintain my own alarm, I
always disconnected the battery in the external bell first. It made for a
quieter life.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

[Dave Liquorice]

On Fri, 11 Jul 2014 01:39:57 -0700 (PDT), therustyone wrote:

> Just bought a house with Eurosec CP8L LCD burglar alarm system, new
> built in 2003 along with a handful of matching ones down the road.

So just out of the NHBC "guarantee" though I suspect that is hardly
worth the paper it is written on, always assuming it covered things
like alarms in the first place.

> Is this likely to be a back-up battery problem, and something I can fix.
> When there is a power cut the little LCD display at the front door goes
> blank and doesn't respond to any entries to try to stop it.

Every indication that the panels backup battery is dead but the one
in the bell box isn't. When the power goes the "hold off" sent from
the panel disappears, as the bell box has volts from its battery it
sounds from that.

Physically replacing the battery is a POP, open up, see the size
(volts and AHr), get one, fit. The hard bit will be the fact you
don't have the engineer code, so when you open it the tamper will be
triggered and the alarm sound. It may well then refuse to do anything
until you reset the tamper for which you need the engineer code...

I'd have a dig about the net and see if you can find the installation
manual and/or a proceedure for a factory reset. Read and digest, try
the defaults for access codes, etc. Try to get as much of the current
setup out of the thing, as a download or manually stepping through
all the menus/settings and writing each one down, before proceeding
into the below.

At some point you are almost certainly going to trigger the alarm
and/or tamper. Can you get to the bell box? If you have a copy of the
installation manual and factory reset method, I think I'd open up the
bell box, which will trigger the tamper, disconnect the bell boxe's
battery and the +V supply from the panel (don't go by wire colour,
look at circuit board markings, that should shut the thing up. You
will be doing this right next to the sounder going off, it will be
*LOUD*, earplugs/deafenders might be a Good Idea.

Now you have disabled the sounder you can factory reset the panel and
fiddle reprogramming it (hence the need to get as much setup info as
possible before the reset) without setting the sounder off.

--
Cheers
Dave.

[therustyone]

Thanks for the confirmation. I did take the front off the box and found a lead-acid battery, after resetting the internal house alarm set off by a PC board switch. It says 12v 3AH but it only reads 3v on charge so I guess its past its best.
Seems to be a Maplin standard item dimension-wise so I'll get one there.

rusty

[Andrew Gabriel]

In article <28b03427-982d-4af1...@googlegroups.com>,

Write the installation date on the battery (and maybe a label on the
outside of the panel too).

If you don't have a lead acid battery capacity tester (they aren't cheap),
change the battery every 5 years as a matter of routine.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

[fred]

In article <28b03427-982d-4af1...@googlegroups.com>,
therustyone <johned...@gmail.com> writes

If it's a small box then it may be running pretty hot in there and
frying the battery prematurely. In a similar spot I have drilled a few
small holes in the sides to increase ventilation and it has worked
wonders on battery longevity. I decided the reduction in security by
having a few holes in the case was minimal.

CPC would be good if you wanted to do a bulk buy for the street but I
imagine that could be more trouble than it's worth.

http://cpc.farnell.com/
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

[Brian Gaff]

I'd also go to the other houses and find out if anyone has more info and if
needed get a number of the batteries at once as it might be cheaper for
everyone concerned.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Dave Liquorice" <allsortsn...@howhill.com> wrote in message
news:nyyfbegfubjuvyypb...@srv1.howhill.co.uk...

[alan]

On 11/07/2014 11:17, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

>
> If you don't have a lead acid battery capacity tester (they aren't cheap),
> change the battery every 5 years as a matter of routine.
>

In my experience replace every 2/3 years, Even if the battery still has
a terminal voltage of around 12V after a couple of years they seem
incapable of supplying the instantaneous power require at the point that
the mains voltage fails. The power supply in the control panel will
"glitch" and the alarm will go off.



--
mailto:news{at}admac(dot}myzen{dot}co{dot}uk

[Andrew Gabriel]

In article <53bfcb0b$0$28621$5b6a...@news.zen.co.uk>,

You might want to check the float voltage is 13.8V.
Any more than this will shorten the battery life.

My alarm is programmed to run from the battery for 2 minutes
every day, so the fault you have would get picked up. What
normally happens is that the capacity steadily drops over the
life of the battery, so the 7Ahr batterieshave dropped to 4-5Ahr
after 5 years.

I have tried using them for other purposes after retiring
them from alarm use, but I found they quickly die when you
are no longer keeping them on float (continuous) charge -
I get only a couple more years use with cyclic charging
(which is probably not surprising as alarm batteries are
for float use, not cyclic).

[Bill Wright]

therustyone wrote:

>
> Thanks for the confirmation. I did take the front off the box and found a lead-acid battery,

after resetting the internal house alarm set off by a PC board switch.
It says 12v 3AH but it only reads 3v on charge so I guess its past its
best.
> Seems to be a Maplin standard item dimension-wise so I'll get one there.

Try Tayna for a much better price.

Bill

[Peter Andrews]

Installation manual at
http://www.pdfdoc.ru/hvac-and-security/cctv-security-and-access-control/security-intruder-alarm-panels-amp-kits/intruder-alarm-panels/eurosec-cp8l-intruder-alarm-panel-w-lcd-ew002-rs-493-0882/data-sheet-eurosec-lcd-installation-manual

User manual
at:http://www.esi-alarms.co.uk/intruder/manuals/eurosec-cp8l-user-manual/

Peter

[therustyone]

All good points. I found the installation manual online and the code that's in the user manual seems to quell it on a power cut. So I might be OK to just change the battery as I don't see how it can differentiate between low volts on a power cut and low/high volts on a different battery. (Famous last words)

5 or 6 alarms went off during the power cut, presumably all have the identical installations from new in 2003. That doesn't seem to happen at my normal house (just here on holiday) so none of the tightwad neighbours around here have had their alarms serviced for some years apparently.

Thanks for all the other comments. I can't sort them as I'm using Google groups.


rusty

[therustyone]

Yes, that went well, new battery installed without any problems, apart from triggering a tamper alarm on opening the case again. No alarm when the mains is tripped off now, and the LCD display by the front door now continues to work with mains off.
Old battery only reads 0.8 volts on a DVM when it came out. The charging circuit is delivering 12.8 off-load so that seems OK.
The outside bell battery can wait a bit as it works fine for the moment, indeed too well.

thanks to everyone for all the help.

rusty

[Dave Liquorice]

On Fri, 11 Jul 2014 13:23:38 +0100, Bill Wright wrote:

>> It says 12v 3AH but it only reads 3v on charge so I guess its past
its
>> best. Seems to be a Maplin standard item dimension-wise so I'll
get one
>> there.
>
> Try Tayna for a much better price.

Or VPS http://www.vps-ups.co.uk, satisfied customer only. VPS have
had the best price for the last couple of battery replacements for my
UPS. Worth a check as Maplin prices are generally rather inflated.

--
Cheers
Dave.

[John Williamson]

And, as I found out a couple of days ago, you still need to find a legal
way of disposing of the old one, as they do not take back WEEE stuff,
even if it's a like-for-like (In this case identical) item.

Their only plus side is if you need it *now*, they may have one in stock
at a store not too far from you.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[Andy Burns]

John Williamson wrote:

> On 11/07/2014 19:46, Dave Liquorice wrote:
>

>> http://www.vps-ups.co.uk

>
> And, as I found out a couple of days ago, you still need to find a legal
> way of disposing of the old one

lead batteries not worth weighing in?

If I've only had one or two, I've left them with the local battery shed
when I've bought replacements from them, they seemed happy enough to
take them.

[Dave Liquorice]

On Fri, 11 Jul 2014 07:24:06 -0700 (PDT), therustyone wrote:

> 5 or 6 alarms went off during the power cut, presumably all have the
> identical installations from new in 2003. That doesn't seem to happen at
> my normal house (just here on holiday) so none of the tightwad
> neighbours around here have had their alarms serviced for some years
> apparently.

More likely ignoramouses who don't realise that alarm systems do need
the batteries changing every few years. And also don't realise that
the alarm sounding on a power cut is a fault, not just an indication
that the power has failed. After all, all the alarms in the area are
all acting the same way so it must be normal...

--
Cheers
Dave.

[John Williamson]

I don't know how much alarm batteries weigh, but if you're passing a
scrapper anyway...

I was just pointing out that if you buy new ones from Maplin, they won't
take them off your hands, they're *your* problem.

[F]

On 11/07/2014 10:49 therustyone wrote:

> Thanks for the confirmation. I did take the front off the box and found a lead-acid battery, after resetting the internal house alarm set off by a PC board switch. It says 12v 3AH but it only reads 3v on charge so I guess its past its best.
> Seems to be a Maplin standard item dimension-wise so I'll get one there.

Check prices at Toolstation and Screwfix. I got a replacement for our
alarm from one of those (but can't remember which!).

--
F

[Andy Burns]

John Williamson wrote:

> I don't know how much alarm batteries weigh, but if you're passing a
> scrapper anyway...

I've got 10 UPS ones and a car one at the moment, and reasonable amount
of copper (and probably a negligible amount of ally) I really ought to
get round to dropping it off soon before some scrote has a look round
the back of my shed.

[Dave Liquorice]

On Fri, 11 Jul 2014 20:04:57 +0100, John Williamson wrote:

>> Or VPS http://www.vps-ups.co.uk, satisfied customer only. VPS
have
>> had the best price for the last couple of battery replacements for
my
>> UPS. Worth a check as Maplin prices are generally rather inflated.
>
> And, as I found out a couple of days ago, you still need to find a legal
> way of disposing of the old one, as they do not take back WEEE stuff,
> even if it's a like-for-like (In this case identical) item.

Just to be clear that "they" is Maplin not VPS. Fairly sure VPS offer
some form of dead battery returns system. Actually I'm rather
surprised that Maplin don't I though if you sold more than X amount
of batteries/year you had to have one of those collection bins. Maybe
SLA's aren't covered by this legislation?

Also I thought retailers of eventual WEEE stuff had to have something
in place to handle it when it does become WEEE.

> Their only plus side is if you need it *now*, they may have one in stock
> at a store not too far from you.

True enough for a "distress" purchase but replacing an alarm battery
that has probably being dead for the last 5 years is hardly
"distress". Anyway nearest Maplins is a 60 mile round trip. B-)

--
Cheers
Dave.

[Dave Liquorice]

On Fri, 11 Jul 2014 20:36:14 +0100, John Williamson wrote:

> I was just pointing out that if you buy new ones from Maplin, they won't
> take them off your hands, they're *your* problem.

The vast majority of HWRC's take 'em, that's only a 30 mile round

[John Williamson]

On 11/07/2014 22:22, Dave Liquorice wrote:
> Just to be clear that "they" is Maplin not VPS. Fairly sure VPS offer
> some form of dead battery returns system. Actually I'm rather
> surprised that Maplin don't I though if you sold more than X amount
> of batteries/year you had to have one of those collection bins. Maybe
> SLA's aren't covered by this legislation?
>

Indeed yes, I was talking about Maplin.

> Also I thought retailers of eventual WEEE stuff had to have something
> in place to handle it when it does become WEEE.
>

They claim to. They pay money to the scheme that operates the WEEE
disposal system for local authorities. According to the droids (two of
'em, one on the phone, the other by e-mails) at head office, and the
store manager at their store on the Strand in London, this complies with
the rules. Delivery to the point of disposal is, according to them, my
problem. In my case, this involves a few hours off work and a shortish
drive, as the point is not open 24 hours a day, but the normal 9 'til 5
or so, or Sunday morning.

Maplins will, however, take back small domestic batteries such as AA or
possibly even ones as large as D cells. If you can find the container...

[tony sayer]

In article <lpol0f$l1n$2...@speranza.aioe.org>, Bill Wright
<bi...@invalid.com> scribeth thus

Blimey!, What motor uses these ones;!?...


http://www.tayna.co.uk/Super-B-25P-Lithium-Car-Battery-P8797.html
--
Tony Sayer

[Andy Burns]

Dave Liquorice wrote:

> I'm rather surprised that Maplin don't I though if you sold more than
> X amount of batteries/year you had to have one of those collection
> bins. Maybe SLA's aren't covered by this legislation?

Ding! The UK defines SLAs as hazardous, so they don't need to be WEEE'd

<https://www.gov.uk/how-to-classify-different-types-of-waste/electronic-and-electrical-equipment>

[Mr Pounder]

"Dave Liquorice" <allsortsn...@howhill.com> wrote in message
news:nyyfbegfubjuvyypb...@srv1.howhill.co.uk...

>Don't the batteries warp slightly after 5 years or so?>

[therustyone]

Maplin's are only 5 miles away so that was quick and easy. But about 80% more than Amazon's prices. The local Domestic Waste site takes old lead batteries.

rusty