Anyone know if I can briefly disconnect my outside water meter please?

[ni...@albion-manufacturing.com]

I wish to add an outdoor socket. The water company has fitted an outside water meter. Rather than drill another hole through the wall for my electrical cable I'm wondering if I can use the same hole as the cable that connects to my outside water meter. To do this I will need to disconnect the outside meter.

I have contacted the water company who didn't have an answer but say they'll get back to me. I feel there could be a long wait and a negative response.

As the outside meter is connected to the inside meter anyway presumably it 'reads' the inside one. So can I briefly disconnect and then reconnect once I have passed my cable through the hole?

Has anyone else done this?

Thanks in advance!

[DerbyBorn]

ni...@albion-manufacturing.com wrote in
news:610eee2c-c8da-49fc...@googlegroups.com:

By "Outside Meter" do you mean the electronic sensor that they take the
readings from?

--

DerbyBorn

[Brian Gaff]

Cable on a water meter?

I have no cable and mine is in the street anyway.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
<ni...@albion-manufacturing.com> wrote in message
news:610eee2c-c8da-49fc...@googlegroups.com...

[Nightjar]

On 17/12/2013 15:49, Brian Gaff wrote:
> Cable on a water meter?
>
> I have no cable and mine is in the street anyway.
> Brian
>

Mine too, but, particularly in winter, it is often under a couple of
feet of muddy water, so possibly a remote reading meter is a good idea.

Colin Bignell

[j...@mdfs.net]

albion-manufacturing wrote:
> I'm wondering if I can use the same hole as the cable that connects to
> my outside water meter. To do this I will need to disconnect the outside
> meter.

Essentially - can I feed a power cable through the same hole in a wall
as another cable?

Why would you need to disconnect the other cable? How does disconnecting
it make the hole through the wall any bigger? If the hole is big enough
to feed two cables through, it's big enough to feed two cables through.

However, grouping regs specify that mains cable must not be grouped
with other cables that are insulated to a lower voltage, so if this
other cable is, eg a 5v signal cable then it won't be insulated to
allow it to be grouped with a mains cable. Rule of thumb is that you
need a cable's width gap between cables.

A simple way of "ungrouping" the cables is to slit a plastic mains
conduit down the side so you can pop it over the signal cable and
feed it through the hole to give it protection. That may also be
the easiest way of getting your mains cable through as well, tap
an empty conduit through the hole in the wall next to the other
one to give you a clear passage.

jgh

[Tim+]

Holes usually aren't too hard to drill either. ;-)

Tim

[ni...@albion-manufacturing.com]

Thanks very much JGH.

It sounds as though it will be easier to drill another hole.

I cannot fit two cables through the hole unless I open it up to a larger diameter. Which is why I am asking if I can disconnect.

If wiring regs don't allow two cables through the same hole in this manner then I shouldn't do it anyway. The water meter must be low voltage.

I suspect the water company won't allow disconnection unless done by an engineer at cost anyway.

Thanks and Happy Christmas!! :-)

[ni...@albion-manufacturing.com]

Yes you are quite right Tim.... just rather have one hole than two for neatness.

But looks like it'll be easier to drill another.

Thanks for all the replies! :-)

[John Rumm]

On 17/12/2013 13:55, ni...@albion-manufacturing.com wrote:
> I wish to add an outdoor socket. The water company has fitted an
> outside water meter. Rather than drill another hole through the wall
> for my electrical cable I'm wondering if I can use the same hole as
> the cable that connects to my outside water meter. To do this I will
> need to disconnect the outside meter.
>
> I have contacted the water company who didn't have an answer but say
> they'll get back to me. I feel there could be a long wait and a
> negative response.

I have not seen water meters that required an electrical supply before.
Even if you have such a beast, it presumably recovers from a power cut
without issue, so I can't see that interrupting it briefly would make
any difference.

> As the outside meter is connected to the inside meter anyway
> presumably it 'reads' the inside one. So can I briefly disconnect and
> then reconnect once I have passed my cable through the hole?

This sounds more like a remote reading device than a meter in the normal
sense?

Why would you need to disconnect to pass an extra cable through anyway?

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

[ARW]

<ni...@albion-manufacturing.com> wrote in message
news:610eee2c-c8da-49fc...@googlegroups.com...

Rule no 1. Just do it and never tell the utility company
Rule no 2. If if goes wrong then just say "It was like that when I got here"
--
Adam

[Roger Mills]

On 17/12/2013 18:44, John Rumm wrote:

>
> This sounds more like a remote reading device than a meter in the normal
> sense?
>

Yes, it will just be a circular object against which the water company
place their data collection device when reading the meter. I can't see
how the water company will ever know that you've disconnected it - as
long as it's reconnected before they next come to read the meter.

> Why would you need to disconnect to pass an extra cable through anyway?
>

The circular object will cover the outside of the hole, and would need
to be removed to "get at" the hole. But, as others have said, fitting a
mains cable in close proximity to this signal wire may not be a good idea.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

[Nightjar]

On 17/12/2013 22:52, Roger Mills wrote:
> On 17/12/2013 18:44, John Rumm wrote:
>
>>
>> This sounds more like a remote reading device than a meter in the normal
>> sense?
>>
> Yes, it will just be a circular object against which the water company
> place their data collection device when reading the meter. I can't see
> how the water company will ever know that you've disconnected it - as

> long as it's reconnected before they next come to read the meter....

I would have thought they would, at the very least, have anti-tamper
seals, to stop people disconnecting the meter in order to reduce their bill.

Colin Bignell

[Tim Watts]

It's almost certainly just an RF device - the "smarts" including the current
consumption will be in the meter.
--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

[ni...@albion-manufacturing.com]

I think the water company described it as an 'out reader'.

It was easy to remove the cover on the unit and access the internal connections.

However have decided to take advice given and not have a mains cable next to a low voltage signal cable.

Thanks all!

[Nightjar]

On 18/12/2013 10:02, Tim Watts wrote:
> On Wednesday 18 December 2013 08:45 Nightjar wrote in uk.d-i-y:
>
>> On 17/12/2013 22:52, Roger Mills wrote:
>>> On 17/12/2013 18:44, John Rumm wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> This sounds more like a remote reading device than a meter in the normal
>>>> sense?
>>>>
>>> Yes, it will just be a circular object against which the water company
>>> place their data collection device when reading the meter. I can't see
>>> how the water company will ever know that you've disconnected it - as
>>> long as it's reconnected before they next come to read the meter....
>>
>> I would have thought they would, at the very least, have anti-tamper
>> seals, to stop people disconnecting the meter in order to reduce their
>> bill.
>>
>

> It's almost certainly just an RF device - the "smarts" including the current
> consumption will be in the meter.

ITYM the last consumption reading before somebody disconnected the
transmitter and stopped it updating the meter.

Colin Bignell

[Tim Watts]

why would it update the meter? The meter being the thing that actually
measures the product???

[Nightjar]

On 18/12/2013 15:44, Tim Watts wrote:
...

> why would it update the meter? The meter being the thing that actually
> measures the product???
>

If it does not transmit the amount of water flowing through the pipe,
what is the function of the bit outside?

Colin Bignell

[John Williamson]

All the clever stuff happens in the meter, and the external bit is just
an antenna.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[Dave Liquorice]

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 16:37:45 +0000, Nightjar wrote:

>> why would it update the meter? The meter being the thing that
actually
>> measures the product???
>
> If it does not transmit the amount of water flowing through the pipe,
> what is the function of the bit outside?

Just a link device to the meter on the inside that does the
measuring. This is so the meter can be read without having to gain
access to the property.

Personally from a smaple of one reading done electronically about 10
years ago on one of our electricity meters I wouldn't trust it. That
one reading was wrong... Apart from that one all readings have been
manual and entered into the handheld psion device.

--
Cheers
Dave.

[Tim Watts]

Transmitter I assume - not the consumption logger and non volatile memory
which I assume are in the meter itself.

WahtI'm saying is disconnecting the external bit will definately prevent the
waterco from reading the meter, but is unlikely to stop the meter
accumulating consumption data - otherwise it would be very easy to fiddle!

[Nightjar]

On 18/12/2013 16:59, Dave Liquorice wrote:
> On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 16:37:45 +0000, Nightjar wrote:
>
>>> why would it update the meter? The meter being the thing that
> actually
>>> measures the product???
>>
>> If it does not transmit the amount of water flowing through the pipe,
>> what is the function of the bit outside?
>
> Just a link device to the meter on the inside that does the
> measuring. This is so the meter can be read without having to gain
> access to the property.

That makes it clear now. I misunderstood reader to mean something that
read the water flow, rather than something that allows the meter to be read.

> Personally from a smaple of one reading done electronically about 10
> years ago on one of our electricity meters I wouldn't trust it. That
> one reading was wrong... Apart from that one all readings have been
> manual and entered into the handheld psion device.

The reader physically looking at my water meter, which is in the
stopcock pit, once managed to read a 1 as a 4, resulting in my
apparently having used over 3000 cubic metres of water in one quarter.

Colin Bignell

[Roger Mills]

On 18/12/2013 17:38, Tim Watts wrote:

>
> Transmitter I assume - not the consumption logger and non volatile memory
> which I assume are in the meter itself.
>
> WahtI'm saying is disconnecting the external bit will definately prevent the
> waterco from reading the meter, but is unlikely to stop the meter
> accumulating consumption data - otherwise it would be very easy to fiddle!
>
>

Yes, indeed. And once re-connected, the water company will be able to
access the information stored in the meter in order to determine how
much was consumed - even if some of the consumption took place whilst
the remote device was disconnected.

[Dave Liquorice]

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 18:11:34 +0000, Nightjar wrote:

> ... which is in the stopcock pit, ...

<smirk>

> ... once managed to read a 1 as a 4, resulting in my apparently having

> used over 3000 cubic metres of water in one quarter.

I take it that is bad? Never lived in a place with a water meter so
haven't a clue about what is "normal" for water use.

--
Cheers
Dave.

[chris French]

In message <bhedpr...@mid.individual.net>, Roger Mills
<watt....@gmail.com> writes

>On 18/12/2013 17:38, Tim Watts wrote:
>
>>
>> Transmitter I assume - not the consumption logger and non volatile memory
>> which I assume are in the meter itself.
>>
>> WahtI'm saying is disconnecting the external bit will definately prevent the
>> waterco from reading the meter, but is unlikely to stop the meter
>> accumulating consumption data - otherwise it would be very easy to fiddle!
>>
>>
>Yes, indeed. And once re-connected, the water company will be able to
>access the information stored in the meter in order to determine how
>much was consumed - even if some of the consumption took place whilst
>the remote device was disconnected.

We have water meter in a hole in the ground, that also has a remote
reader in the lid on the hole, but it also has the reading on the meter
itself. Though ours are mechanical, rather than electronic.
--
Chris French

[chris French]

In message <nyyfbegfubjuvyypb...@srv1.howhill.co.uk>, Dave
Liquorice <allsortsn...@howhill.com> writes

We use in the order of 240 cubic metres per annum (family of 4)
--
Chris French

[js...@ntlworld.com]

On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 7:40:19 PM UTC, adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
> Rule no 1. Just do it and never tell the utility company
> Rule no 2. If if goes wrong then just say "It was like that when I got here"

Bet that doesn't work for HV... :-)

[Nightjar]

That is more than enough to fill an Olympic size swimming pool. A two
person household averages about 110 cubic metres a year.

Colin Bignell

[SteveW]

On 17/12/2013 18:01, ni...@albion-manufacturing.com wrote:
> Thanks very much JGH.
>
> It sounds as though it will be easier to drill another hole.
>
> I cannot fit two cables through the hole unless I open it up to a larger diameter. Which is why I am asking if I can disconnect.
>
> If wiring regs don't allow two cables through the same hole in this manner then I shouldn't do it anyway. The water meter must be low voltage.

Wiring regs do allow mains and signal cables to be together, but both
must be insulated (and quite often are anyway) to the higher voltage.

However, mains and data side by side can cause interference and data
loss or corruption, so simple practicality requires an earthed metal
screen between them - which could be a screen or armour as part of one
of the cables.

>
> I suspect the water company won't allow disconnection unless done by an engineer at cost anyway.

Very likely.