Wibo electric heaters - good or crap?
mike
these people:
http://www.wibo-uk.co.uk/produckts/advantages.html
Apparently they'd visited her twice before, trying (unsuccessfully) to
sell her electric heaters and now they were attempting to make a third
appointment.
She lives in a 1970's bungalow, cavity wall insulation, loft
insulation, Baxi condensing combi gas boiler and rads about 3 years
old.
I can't see any reason why these would be cheaper to run or repay the
capital cost unless there's a major and long-lasting decrease in the
price of electricity and a simultaneous increase in the price of gas.
And to have them on top of a decent, new gas system seems madness.
Am I missing something or are they shysters trying to rob old ladies?
dennis@home
"mike" <mike...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f55aab9d-cedf-494c...@a1g2000yqp.googlegroups.com...
You haven't missed anything.
They are no better than the electric panel heaters in toolstation for about
Ł50 or any cheaper to run than a Ł10 fan heater.
If you want cheap to run (and you don't own your own wood) then its mains
gas, ground sourced heat pumps, air sourced heat pumps, off peak
electricity, oil, mains electricity, lpg. in roughly that order (it depends
on time of year and how much bulk fuel you can store).
They can not pretend to be cheaper than mains gas, report them to trading
standards as they are lying.
Owain
> I was visiting an elderly relative recently when she got a call from
> these people:
> http://www.wibo-uk.co.uk/produckts/advantages.html
http://www.asa.org.uk/ASA-action/Adjudications/2007/3/Wibo_Werk-GmbH/TF_ADJ_42322.aspx
discussed at length here
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=778865&highlight=wibo
search also for calortec, rointe,
> Am I missing something or are they shysters trying to rob old ladies?
I don't think you're missing something.
Owain
Dave Plowman (News)
<f55aab9d-cedf-494c...@a1g2000yqp.googlegroups.com>,
> http://www.wibo-uk.co.uk/produckts/advantages.html
They are shysters trying to rob an old lady.
--
*Organized Crime Is Alive And Well; It's Called Auto Insurance. *
Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Andrew Gabriel
"Dave Plowman (News)" <da...@davenoise.co.uk> writes:
> In article
> <f55aab9d-cedf-494c...@a1g2000yqp.googlegroups.com>,
> mike <mike...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> I was visiting an elderly relative recently when she got a call from
>> these people:
>
>> http://www.wibo-uk.co.uk/produckts/advantages.html
>
>> Apparently they'd visited her twice before, trying (unsuccessfully) to
>> sell her electric heaters and now they were attempting to make a third
>> appointment.
>
>> She lives in a 1970's bungalow, cavity wall insulation, loft
>> insulation, Baxi condensing combi gas boiler and rads about 3 years
>> old.
>
>> I can't see any reason why these would be cheaper to run or repay the
>> capital cost unless there's a major and long-lasting decrease in the
>> price of electricity and a simultaneous increase in the price of gas.
>> And to have them on top of a decent, new gas system seems madness.
>
>> Am I missing something or are they shysters trying to rob old ladies?
>
> They are shysters trying to rob an old lady.
It would be so much fun to let them go ahead, and secretly record it,
if your relative was willing/able to play along. Almost certainly
something worth of YouTube and/or local trading standards would result.
--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
John Rumm
The latter... (IIRC their claims were taken apart piece by piece in this
group some years back.
Also:
--
Cheers,
John.
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Andy Burns
> http://www.wibo-uk.co.uk/produckts/advantages.html
#10 on their list of advantages is very convincing!
Mike Clarke
Also #9 "In comparison to other energy sources, electricity costs are
declining." ?????
--
Mike Clarke
Newshound
"the rate of increase of prices is decreasing"
from the early 70's
Steve Firth
In Germany.
Dave Liquorice
> Also #9 "In comparison to other energy sources, electricity costs are
> declining." ?????
Well read what it says "In comparison to other energy sources" ie
electricty simply hasn't gone up as much as other energy sources.
Lecky: Oct 2006 7.191p/unit, Mar 2011 11.176p/unit from the same
supplier. I then jumped ship to 8.3p/unit/
Oil: Jun 2006 33.62p/l, (Jan 2007 28.12p/l), Mar 2011 56.52p/l
The same increase in lecky as oil should mean lecky being
12.08p/unit, so even before I jumped ship lecky was in comparison to
other energy sources, declining in price.
--
Cheers
Dave.
Peter Parry
wrote:
>I can't see any reason why these would be cheaper to run or repay the
>capital cost unless there's a major and long-lasting decrease in the
>price of electricity and a simultaneous increase in the price of gas.
>And to have them on top of a decent, new gas system seems madness.
>
>Am I missing something or are they shysters trying to rob old ladies?
They are a bunch of fraudsters. Look at their 10 !advantages".
"1. You have selected a sturdy and maintenance free heating system
without follow-up expenses for service and maintenance. There will be
no additional charges for the burner, unit, pumps or pipes. Your
electrical heating devices do not have any moving parts and will keep
you comfortable for decades to come."
Electric heaters also fail. Joints carrying high currents are amongst
the most common failures and a significant source of household fires
compared with other heating systems.
" 2. Thanks to thermostat-controlled consumption, you will fare as
well as or better with our electrical system than you would with
other energy sources."
OK - so it is no better than any other heating system designed in the
last 30 years.
" In the long-term you will find that electrical heat is significantly
less expensive than oil, gas or coal, "
Nonsense.
"especially if you take the procurement costs for purchasing,
maintenance and replacement of parts into account."
This is rubbish if you already have a perfectly adequate gas system
"3. You will not have to pay a base rate. All you pay for is the
actual consumption in kW/h. With your electricity bill for light,
household appliances and other electrical devices you have already
paid the base rate."
If you already have a gas cooker the same idiotic "logic" applies.
"4. You will save a lot of room. No need for an oil tank, heating unit
or pipes. Your power comes straight from the electrical wall socket."
Pipes are well known for taking up vast amounts of room.
"5. You have the most reliable energy source at your disposal. In
terms of supply interruptions, electrical power averages availability
rates of 99.98 %."
I suspect many more people have had electricity outages than gas
outages.
"6. Your heating system is easy to operate. Your electrical heaters
are self-controlled through modern thermostats and will deliver the
personal comfort level you select"
OK - so just the same as any 20 year old or less gas system.
"7. You have clean technology in your house – no embers, smoke, dust
or bad odours. Your units are simply set up in convenient locations
and connected to the nearest wall socket."
OK - so just the same as any 20 year old or less gas system.
"8. By choosing electrical heaters you are helping the environment."
By buying a system run off burning coal?
"9. In comparison to other energy sources, electricity costs are
declining (as a result of the April 1998 liberalization of the German
electricity market, prices have gone down depending on the amount
consumed). "
Unfortunately that has meant prices in the UK have gone up as the
French and German power companies try to milk us.
"10. (Etc., etc., etc.)"
Now that is the bit they are honest about -put your fingers in your
ears and shout "lalala" while the white socked cretin of a salesdroid
tries to fleece you for his commission.
This is the Ratner of heating systems.
therustyone
What seems to be missing from their web page is the cost of equipment
and fitting, thermostats etc. It's impossible to believe it's cheap
and could cost £1,000's. A floor standing convector from Argos would
do a similar job at low capital cost ~£50. Assuming she has
convenient 13A sockets that is.
rusty
mike
haven't changed the laws of physics without telling me.
Derek G.
<see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
>>
>> Am I missing something or are they shysters trying to rob old ladies?
>
>The latter...
>
Yes, by spome cretinous sleazeball who's USP was that his plain ohmic
heaters were fitted to new build "Luxury", "Executive" apartments, AKA
Flats. (Over half of which are still unfinished/unsold to this day).
>(IIRC their claims were taken apart piece by piece in this
>group some years back.
Derek G.
This Looks like Finito Ruperto.
Mike Clarke
And that's one of the reasons they put forward as to why people in the
UK should buy their heaters.
--
Mike Clarke
Andy Wade
> They are shysters trying to rob an old lady.
Yes, and not just slightly. I know of one case where the old dear paid
£800 for a 2 kW portable convector heater.
--
Andy
Steve Walker
> Am I missing something or are they shysters trying to rob old ladies?
That would my vote. They're trying to pretend that a simple 'lectric heater
is some kind of special miracle product.
John Stumbles
As Private Eye would say "Er, that's it"
--
John Stumbles
If a tree falls in a forest, can one hand hear it clap?
js.b1
Plus high capital + maintenance + 10yr boiler replacement cost.
1kWhr E7 Night is 4.9p inc VAT.
Plus lower capital + 25yr heater replacement cost.
1kWhr Peak is 12.5p inc VAT.
Plus low/high capital + 20yr heater replacement cost.
Portable convector is £20-30 (depending on size).
Wall mounted designer dimplex convector is £100-180.
Wall mounted designer electric aluminium convector is £125-180 B&Q.
Hyped up designer whatever radiator is £125-499 Calortec Rointe.
The Calortec Rointe Whatever are ideal when a) you want aluminium
radiator aesthetics + b) have a lot of money to spend for a designer
apartment + c) have 2010 levels of insulation where very little annual
kWhr is required and the capital cost of such "designer things" is
still less than a GCH system. Alternatively for Spain & Southern
France which only require minimal heating and the controllability via
remote controls and such like is attractive - where an unattended wet
system for holiday houses is less desirable in fact.
A relative has no heating in their bedroom, because they do not want
it. However for 2009 & 2010 winters I fitted a wall mounted panel
heater styled like a radiator for £97 - but it was ugly "side-on", so
changed it for a £114 electric aluminium unit which was actually more
narrow and much more attractive "side on". A small price premium. It
cost £32 in total to run for both winters (far less than the huge
increase in cost over a portable convector however I discounted that
solution).
Electric heating is a) E7 storage heaters or b) E7 thermal store or c)
a lot of insulation and people out during the day. Remember Germany
has very high insulation levels so they can "make work" electric
systems which would be cost hideous in an uninsulated 1920-1970 house
in the UK.
It is like selling electric beds at 2.5k and banging a pen on the
clipboard.
stevet...@gmail.com
For that price I would want the electric covered for a significant period of time as well.
Not a deal I'll be taking up!!!
Dave Plowman (News)
controlled for under 30 quid.
But not carved from solid gold, obviously.
--
*I see you've set aside this special time to humiliate yourself in public
Brian Gaff
engineers?
Brian
--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
<stevet...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:6ad4a98f-54c5-4364...@googlegroups.com...
Tim Watts
> In article <6ad4a98f-54c5-4364...@googlegroups.com>,
> <stevet...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I had one of their salesmen call and quote for four radiators for a
>> small flat that I rent out. I was quoted £7600 for 4.2Kw over the four
>> heaters that was WITH 15% discount!!! For that price I would want the
>> electric covered for a significant period of time as well. Not a deal
>> I'll be taking up!!!
>
> Argos do quite nice wall mounted 2 kW convector heaters thermostatically
> controlled for under 30 quid.
>
> But not carved from solid gold, obviously.
>
But also - beware the convector heater for not all are created equal:
I had one from B&Q - rated at 1kW. It has a duty cycle of about 50% as
it cannot even lose1kW to the air fast enough.
The DeLonghi's I also have however are fantastic - they almost blow the
air out by sheer force of convection (loads of fins).
Just sayin... Best to check the reviews before buying. And even a
brilliant floor standing high power oil filled rad should not be more
than £100. So I'd expect similar of wall mounted ones.
Tim Watts
> <stevet...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I had one of their salesmen call and quote for four radiators for a
>> small flat that I rent out. I was quoted £7600 for 4.2Kw over the four
>> heaters that was WITH 15% discount!!! For that price I would want the
>> electric covered for a significant period of time as well. Not a deal
>> I'll be taking up!!!
>
> Argos do quite nice wall mounted 2 kW convector heaters thermostatically
> controlled for under 30 quid.
>
> But not carved from solid gold, obviously.
>
find, £420 each for wall mounted, oil filled, full control etc:
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/ERRF14E.html
That's still £1700 in parts, rather a lot less than £7600 even allowing
for wiring and fitting.
Depending on your space/needs you might be served well enough by
something more basic:
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/DXOFX1500.html
and add a decent room timer/stat to the electrical feed (lots of scope
for something fancy, remote controllable if required).
Dave Plowman (News)
> But also - beware the convector heater for not all are created equal:
> I had one from B&Q - rated at 1kW. It has a duty cycle of about 50% as
> it cannot even lose1kW to the air fast enough.
The Argos one I'm talking about (branded Honeywell) was a simple
convector with only the element heating the air. I had one in the
bathroom as a stop gap for some time after changing to a new boiler
which didn't throw out any real heat into the room like the old one did.
But have now fitted a central heating rad.
I can't really see the point of expensive oil filled rads etc. All
electric heaters are near enough the same efficiency. I suppose a larger
heating area would reduce the localised air temp - but then you could do
the same thing with a larger element. At much less cost.
--
*Never test the depth of the water with both feet.*
Adam Aglionby
> In article <i9gv1b-...@squidward.local.dionic.net>,
>
> Tim Watts <tw_u...@dionic.net> wrote:
>
> > But also - beware the convector heater for not all are created equal:
>
>
>
> > I had one from B&Q - rated at 1kW. It has a duty cycle of about 50% as
>
> > it cannot even lose1kW to the air fast enough.
>
>
>
> I find that strange.
>
>
>
> The Argos one I'm talking about (branded Honeywell) was a simple
>
> convector with only the element heating the air. I had one in the
>
> bathroom as a stop gap for some time after changing to a new boiler
>
> which didn't throw out any real heat into the room like the old one did.
>
> But have now fitted a central heating rad.
>
>
>
> I can't really see the point of expensive oil filled rads etc. All
>
> electric heaters are near enough the same efficiency. I suppose a larger
>
> heating area would reduce the localised air temp - but then you could do
>
> the same thing with a larger element. At much less cost.
DeLonghi is far more effective at getting heat into the air, it also has a boost heat element, but even on just oil the increased amount of surface area over a CPC cheapy is noticably more effective.
Timeguard plug in thermos are unreliable pieces of crap BTW.
tony sayer
>That's still £1700 in parts, rather a lot less than £7600 even allowing
>for wiring and fitting.
>
them for several years;)...
--
Tony Sayer
Tim Watts
> In article <i9gv1b-...@squidward.local.dionic.net>,
> Tim Watts <tw_u...@dionic.net> wrote:
>> But also - beware the convector heater for not all are created equal:
>
>> I had one from B&Q - rated at 1kW. It has a duty cycle of about 50% as
>> it cannot even lose1kW to the air fast enough.
>
> I find that strange.
>
> The Argos one I'm talking about (branded Honeywell) was a simple
> convector with only the element heating the air. I had one in the
> bathroom as a stop gap for some time after changing to a new boiler
> which didn't throw out any real heat into the room like the old one did.
> But have now fitted a central heating rad.
>
> I can't really see the point of expensive oil filled rads etc.
Tim Watts
>
> Thats what would have thought as well, have a CPC 2.5k oil rad in
> workshop, had, thermo failed stuck in winter II, and a handed down
> Delonghi Dragon oil rad.
Just sayin... Don't take anything for granted. If it says 2kW it might
not actually be able to move that power to the air...
Dave Plowman (News)
expect to need a fan.
--
*What do little birdies see when they get knocked unconscious? *
Dave Plowman (News)
> > I can't really see the point of expensive oil filled rads etc.
> Intrinsically safe, more of less - very very unlikely to cause a fire
steel case and grille - be a fire hazard? If you covered the grille, the
thermostat (and a separate overheat one) - would shut it down.
A large oil filled rad may have a slightly lower surface temperature - but
will also take up more room.
--
*Why were the Indians here first? They had reservations.*
Tim Watts
> In article <hdmv1b-...@squidward.local.dionic.net>,
> Tim Watts <tw_u...@dionic.net> wrote:
>>> I can't really see the point of expensive oil filled rads etc.
>
>> Intrinsically safe, more of less - very very unlikely to cause a fire
>
> Why would a decent convector - with the element totally enclosed by a
> steel case and grille - be a fire hazard? If you covered the grille, the
> thermostat (and a separate overheat one) - would shut it down.
once. These things make me nervous with kids and/or old people around.
If it were a resistive element with a large temperature coefficient
(sold as intrinsically safe) I'd be OK with that.
Not saying *you* need to worry, but I would as I see how people treat
heaters, even after n-lectures on not doing silly stuff like piling
stuff up against it!
dennis@home
cost ~1/3 to run.
Hell you may even get a ground source system.
Andreas Dunker
My mum paid 3400 EUR!
--
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