Urgent Boiler Condensate Question
pepper
flashing fault code - I traced the fault to a blocked condensate
drain, (presumably frozen), so I've restored functionality by
temporarily running the condensate into a bucket. (hero points from
SWMBO hopefully !)
The boiler is in the loft, and my question is can I safely leave the
bucket overnight, or am I likely to have a very damp ceiling if I
persue this route? Just how much condensate do you get from a boiler
per day?
Help please or my hero points may be rapidly removed!
Thanks, Mike
Andy Champ
Another one?
A bit of heat to clear the drain and it will run for a while. The drain
should be replaced with 32mm pipe, and that will fix the problem long
term. You want to make sure there are no sumps in the pipe too - so it
can drain empty, no u-bend type things to freeze solid.
See thread
Cold weather condensing boiler breakdowns x 2 Frozen condensate pipes
HTH
Andy (who is glad to have old, inefficient, non-condensing boiler!)
David
How much condensate it will produce differs from boiler to boiler, it
also depends on high or low the CH flow temperature is set at.
David WE Roberts
"Andy Champ" <no....@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:CKmdnRdlJttBDrPW...@eclipse.net.uk...
I thought our plumber (who ran the condensate pipe into the soil pipe behing
the upstairs toilet - boiler was in the loft) was a bit of a bodger.
However I'm beginning to see the advantages!
YAPH
> Our boiler (Feroli Optimax 25OV) stopped working this evening with a
> flashing fault code - I traced the fault to a blocked condensate
> drain, (presumably frozen), so I've restored functionality by
> temporarily running the condensate into a bucket. (hero points from
> SWMBO hopefully !)
> The boiler is in the loft, and my question is can I safely leave the
> bucket overnight
Should be OK, especially if you're not leaving the CH on full-bore
overnight - just check it before you go to bed for your peace of mind.
--
John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk
I forgot to take my amnesia medecine again
Clot
> On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 12:52:29 -0800, pepper wrote:
>
>> Our boiler (Feroli Optimax 25OV) stopped working this evening with a
>> flashing fault code - I traced the fault to a blocked condensate
>> drain, (presumably frozen), so I've restored functionality by
>> temporarily running the condensate into a bucket. (hero points from
>> SWMBO hopefully !)
>> The boiler is in the loft, and my question is can I safely leave the
>> bucket overnight
>
> Should be OK, especially if you're not leaving the CH on full-bore
> overnight - just check it before you go to bed for your peace of mind.
Hmm? In the loft; off for sufficient time for the bucket of water to gain
dripping condensation on the outside ending up where? Needs a "driptray" to
surround it methinks.
Tim Lamb
writes
>On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 12:52:29 -0800, pepper wrote:
>
>> Our boiler (Feroli Optimax 25OV) stopped working this evening with a
>> flashing fault code - I traced the fault to a blocked condensate
>> drain, (presumably frozen), so I've restored functionality by
>> temporarily running the condensate into a bucket. (hero points from
>> SWMBO hopefully !)
>> The boiler is in the loft, and my question is can I safely leave the
>> bucket overnight
>
>Should be OK, especially if you're not leaving the CH on full-bore
>overnight - just check it before you go to bed for your peace of mind.
So? How much was there?
I am running a temporary *lash up* 26kW combi to bring some flooring up
to running temperature. At present the room stats are holding at 13deg.C
and the boiler between 40 and 50deg.C Two decent sized rooms plus a
bathroom. 24 hours collects about 2 litres.
regards
--
Tim Lamb
Andrew Gabriel
Andy Champ <no....@nospam.invalid> writes:
> pepper wrote:
>> Our boiler (Feroli Optimax 25OV) stopped working this evening with a
>> flashing fault code - I traced the fault to a blocked condensate
>> drain, (presumably frozen), so I've restored functionality by
>> temporarily running the condensate into a bucket. (hero points from
>> SWMBO hopefully !)
>> The boiler is in the loft, and my question is can I safely leave the
>> bucket overnight, or am I likely to have a very damp ceiling if I
>> persue this route? Just how much condensate do you get from a boiler
>> per day?
>> Help please or my hero points may be rapidly removed!
>> Thanks, Mike
>
> Another one?
Seems to me like there might be a market for a thin heater wire
to run inside condensate pipework, like I made for my dehumidifier.
--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
Tim W
wibbled on Monday 21 December 2009 10:47
> Seems to me like there might be a market for a thin heater wire
> to run inside condensate pipework, like I made for my dehumidifier.
>
Wouldn't that be a good use for trace heating tape on the outside, wrapped
in some insulation?
My BCO questioned my decision to dump the condensate from my future boiler
into an internal trap into a internal drain (but he wasn't 100% sure - he
just thought it was usual to dump into a gulley). Having seen internal
drains mentioned in the installers manual, I'm of a mind it's a far better
idea if available.
Do some boilers absolutely require an external discharge, say to do with
fumes escaping from the condensate drain?
--
Tim Watts
This space intentionally left blank...
Andrew Gabriel
Tim W <t...@dionic.net> writes:
> Andrew Gabriel <and...@cucumber.demon.co.uk>
> wibbled on Monday 21 December 2009 10:47
>
>
>> Seems to me like there might be a market for a thin heater wire
>> to run inside condensate pipework, like I made for my dehumidifier.
>>
>
> Wouldn't that be a good use for trace heating tape on the outside, wrapped
> in some insulation?
Having it inside seems more sensible to me.
Could be powered only when boiler is firing, and only when air
intake is below 1 or 2C, if the boiler provided the drive for it.
(That's pretty much what I did with the dehumidifier drain.)
> My BCO questioned my decision to dump the condensate from my future boiler
> into an internal trap into a internal drain (but he wasn't 100% sure - he
> just thought it was usual to dump into a gulley). Having seen internal
> drains mentioned in the installers manual, I'm of a mind it's a far better
> idea if available.
>
> Do some boilers absolutely require an external discharge, say to do with
> fumes escaping from the condensate drain?
Mine has a U-trap internal to the boiler to prevent fumes leaking
out of the condensate pipe, with clear warnings to make sure it's
been manually filled before trying to light the boiler for the
first time. That U-trap also contains the sensor to detect if the
condensate is backing up the pipework, and it generates a specific
lock-out code for that (not happened to me yet).
Tim W
wibbled on Monday 21 December 2009 14:20
> Having it inside seems more sensible to me.
I was just thinking about off the shelf products (as ordinary trace tape
isn't usually rated to run wet). Otherwise I agree.
> Could be powered only when boiler is firing, and only when air
> intake is below 1 or 2C, if the boiler provided the drive for it.
> (That's pretty much what I did with the dehumidifier drain.)
>
I'm wondering about a length of plastic coated greenhouse heating cable,
single end fed, trimmed and reterminated to suit 12V and run it off either a
transformer or a SELV lighting pack for readiness and simplicity? The
greenhouse stuff is of course thoroughly waterproof and SELVs teh backup
plan.
>
> Mine has a U-trap internal to the boiler to prevent fumes leaking
> out of the condensate pipe, with clear warnings to make sure it's
> been manually filled before trying to light the boiler for the
> first time. That U-trap also contains the sensor to detect if the
> condensate is backing up the pipework, and it generates a specific
> lock-out code for that (not happened to me yet).
>
Yes - the Viessmann I'm looking into has a U trap and the same warnings.
What make's your boiler may I ask?
Andrew Gabriel
Tim W <t...@dionic.net> writes:
> Andrew Gabriel <and...@cucumber.demon.co.uk>
> wibbled on Monday 21 December 2009 14:20
>
>
>> Having it inside seems more sensible to me.
>
> I was just thinking about off the shelf products (as ordinary trace tape
> isn't usually rated to run wet). Otherwise I agree.
Yes, I made mine - resistance wire threaded down PTFE sleeve.
>> Could be powered only when boiler is firing, and only when air
>> intake is below 1 or 2C, if the boiler provided the drive for it.
>> (That's pretty much what I did with the dehumidifier drain.)
>>
>
> I'm wondering about a length of plastic coated greenhouse heating cable,
> single end fed, trimmed and reterminated to suit 12V and run it off either a
> transformer or a SELV lighting pack for readiness and simplicity? The
> greenhouse stuff is of course thoroughly waterproof and SELVs teh backup
> plan.
I'm not familiar with that. There's heating tape wire which is used
on things like external fire sprinkler pipework, which would otherwise
freeze no matter how much insulation, as there no flow. Looks a bit
like T&E, but it comes in ready made up lengths.
>> Mine has a U-trap internal to the boiler to prevent fumes leaking
>> out of the condensate pipe, with clear warnings to make sure it's
>> been manually filled before trying to light the boiler for the
>> first time. That U-trap also contains the sensor to detect if the
>> condensate is backing up the pipework, and it generates a specific
>> lock-out code for that (not happened to me yet).
>>
>
> Yes - the Viessmann I'm looking into has a U trap and the same warnings.
>
> What make's your boiler may I ask?
Keston Celcius 25 (no longer a current model).
Tim Lamb
<t...@dionic.net> writes
>>
>> Mine has a U-trap internal to the boiler to prevent fumes leaking
>> out of the condensate pipe, with clear warnings to make sure it's
>> been manually filled before trying to light the boiler for the
>> first time. That U-trap also contains the sensor to detect if the
>> condensate is backing up the pipework, and it generates a specific
>> lock-out code for that (not happened to me yet).
>>
>
>Yes - the Viessmann I'm looking into has a U trap and the same warnings.
>
>What make's your boiler may I ask?
I'm just starting to use a Viessmann Vitodens 100W, 26kW combi.
Mainly because I could buy it cheaper from my builders merchant than the
plumber who claims to be trained by them:-) Stainless steel seems a good
idea as well.
No problems so far x!x
Happy Christmas
>
--
Tim Lamb
Tim W
wibbled on Monday 21 December 2009 19:16
> I'm just starting to use a Viessmann Vitodens 100W, 26kW combi.
>
> Mainly because I could buy it cheaper from my builders merchant than the
> plumber who claims to be trained by them:-) Stainless steel seems a good
> idea as well.
Do you have anything to note on the install? Gotchas etc. Also, did it
appear to be set up correctly from the factory or did it need some
adjustment with a gas analyser?
always useful to be forewarned :)
Dave Liquorice
> Seems to me like there might be a market for a thin heater wire
> to run inside condensate pipework, like I made for my dehumidifier.
Seems to me that:
The things should be installed properly with 32mm external drains as
per the instructions. I guess it's "trained" Gas Safe/CORGI
installers thinking they know better. Why put in 32mm, it's only
carrying a dribble of water. Don't need to carry 32mm pipe and
adapters...
Mind you I've had a bath waste freeze up solid when there was a
slowly dripping tap. Mind that was one of the winters in the early
80's when it was properly cold (daytime maxes below zero for a week
in Bristol). Not the current little snap.
Also using electric to heat the drain isn't very green as you have a
good source of waste heat available...
--
Cheers
Dave.
John Rumm
> Andrew Gabriel <and...@cucumber.demon.co.uk>
> wibbled on Monday 21 December 2009 10:47
>
>
>> Seems to me like there might be a market for a thin heater wire
>> to run inside condensate pipework, like I made for my dehumidifier.
>>
>
> Wouldn't that be a good use for trace heating tape on the outside, wrapped
> in some insulation?
>
> My BCO questioned my decision to dump the condensate from my future boiler
> into an internal trap into a internal drain (but he wasn't 100% sure - he
> just thought it was usual to dump into a gulley). Having seen internal
> drains mentioned in the installers manual, I'm of a mind it's a far better
> idea if available.
Its what I have always done. Seemed preferable to making extra holes etc
if there is a perfectly serviceable drain right next to the boiler as is
often the case.
> Do some boilers absolutely require an external discharge, say to do with
> fumes escaping from the condensate drain?
The install instructions permit both usually - however that may depend
on the boiler.
--
Cheers,
John.
/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/
Tim Lamb
<t...@dionic.net> writes
>Tim Lamb <t...@marfordfarm.demon.co.uk>
> wibbled on Monday 21 December 2009 19:16
>
>
>> I'm just starting to use a Viessmann Vitodens 100W, 26kW combi.
>>
>> Mainly because I could buy it cheaper from my builders merchant than the
>> plumber who claims to be trained by them:-) Stainless steel seems a good
>> idea as well.
>
>Do you have anything to note on the install? Gotchas etc. Also, did it
>appear to be set up correctly from the factory or did it need some
>adjustment with a gas analyser?
Not really. The flue has to be specified and ordered. I handed the box
over to the plumbers and left them to get on with things. When I came
back they were test running hot water down the drain. I haven't bothered
with weather compensation although it could be important with under
floor heat. Easy retrofit and not requiring a plumber recall.
The gas safety record shows an initial combustion analyser reading of
8.9 (no units mentioned) and a final combustion reading of 8.9 so
probably no adjustment necessary. I see the commissioning checklist
records CO2 as 8.9 so must be that.
There is a drilling template supplied but they had obviously cocked up
the measurements as I now have a spare set of fixing holes. They
probably assumed a 12" cavity wall except this one has feather edge
cladding.
They filled and pressurised the under floor system but could not test as
I had not wired in the thermostats or control valves.
You get two extra years warranty if the installer is Viessmann trained.
>
>always useful to be forewarned :)
Quieter than our Potterton 100E but not silent. The bypass is internal,
U bend in condensate pipe.
I don't really know enough to criticise it.
pepper
> > overnight - just check it before you go to bed for your peace of mind.
For the benefit of the archive, there was about 5cm in the bottom of a
'standard' bucket in the morning. Not much more by the following
evening!
> Hmm? In the loft; off for sufficient time for the bucket of water to gain
> dripping condensation on the outside ending up where? Needs a "driptray" to
> surround it methinks.
Why would it have condensation on the outside? - the bucket and its
contents are already at room (loft) temperature? Anyway, whatever the
theory there didn't seem to be any condensate on the condensate
bucket!
I think perhaps the problem I've got is that the condensate is just
dripping out at a rate of about 1 drip per second, with no sign of any
siphonic action. When I look at the syphon valve it looks like the
fluid in the valve is being added to too slowly to start the syphon
going. - is that possible?
Doctor Drivel
"David WE Roberts" <nos...@talk21.com> wrote in message
news:7p7j9f...@mid.individual.net...
If the soil pipe runs through the loft then branch into it there. Sometimes
it is possible to terminate the condensate pipe into the gutter, depending
on circumstances.
A loft is regarded as outside if vented - the roof is just to keep the rain
off the house, not insulate it. "ALL" pipe must be lagged in the loft and
that includes condensate pipes and copper pressure discharge pipes. A small
let by with the PRV may block up the copper discharge pipe.
If it is difficult to get a condensate pipe to outside where it cannot
freeze, then use a condensate pump. Or use an Atmos, which get the
condensate and spays it into the flue exhaust gasses on the way out of the
boiler.
Doctor Drivel
Doctor Drivel
"John Rumm" <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote in message
news:QZqdnci_Ifl8Z7LW...@brightview.co.uk...
> The install instructions permit both usually - however that may depend on
> the boiler.
Both are permitted on all boilers.
Doctor Drivel
"YAPH" <use...@yaph.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7p7pbr...@mid.individual.net...
> On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 12:52:29 -0800, pepper wrote:
>
>> Our boiler (Feroli Optimax 25OV) stopped working this evening with a
>> flashing fault code - I traced the fault to a blocked condensate
>> drain, (presumably frozen), so I've restored functionality by
>> temporarily running the condensate into a bucket. (hero points from
>> SWMBO hopefully !)
>> The boiler is in the loft, and my question is can I safely leave the
>> bucket overnight
>
> Should be OK, especially if you're not leaving the CH on full-bore
> overnight - just check it before you go to bed for your peace of mind.
Best have the boiler stat on maximum to reduce condensate collection. Then
have the room stat set to 17-18C.
dennis@home
"Doctor Drivel" <kill...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:hgqe74$qtj$3...@news.eternal-september.org...
Yes!!! replace a simple, reliable non-condensing boiler with a complex,
expensive, unreliable boiler and run it in non-condensing mode.
geoff
<den...@killspam.kicks-ass.net> writes
Fuck - I find myself in agreement with the Den
--
geoff
YAPH
> I think perhaps the problem I've got is that the condensate is just
> dripping out at a rate of about 1 drip per second, with no sign of any
> siphonic action. When I look at the syphon valve it looks like the
> fluid in the valve is being added to too slowly to start the syphon
> going. - is that possible?
dunno if Ferrolis are supposed to do a syphonic action but if they are it
sounds is if yours is naffed.
--
John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk
The clairvoyants' meeting has been cancelled due to unforseen
circumstances.
YAPH
> In message <hgtvm2$36d$1...@news.datemas.de>, "dennis@home"
>>Yes!!! replace a simple, reliable non-condensing boiler with a complex,
>>expensive, unreliable boiler and run it in non-condensing mode.
>
> Fuck - I find myself in agreement with the Den
Come on geoff, you make your living from simple, unreliable non-
condensing boilers ;-)
--
John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk
87.5% of statistics are made up
Doctor Drivel
"geoff" <ra...@kateda.org> wrote in message
news:j2gbr5ou...@demon.co.uk...
Maxie!!! My oh my! This silly man said all condensing boiler are complex
(which they are not) and unreliable (which they are not), and agreed!!! And
you being in a Paddy band and wearing turned down wellies as well.
Maxie I am distressed to read what you wrote. Indeed I am shocked.
ARWadsworth
"Doctor Drivel" <kill...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
You can read?
Adam
geoff
ARWadsworth <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> writes
Nursie helps him with the big words
--
geoff
ARWadsworth
"The cat sat on the mat"
Adam
Clot
I must remember not to have any drink in my mouth when reading your posts.
The keyboard and screen need another clean! :)
Doctor Drivel
"ARWadsworth" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Bh60n.21608$Ym4....@text.news.virginmedia.com...
Do you want me to speak it to you?
Doctor Drivel
Maxie, she would have to. Even words like is and and.
Doctor Drivel
Fantastic. Maxie, such an improvement in such a short time.
Doctor Drivel
"Clot" <clo...@ntlglobe.goon> wrote in message
news:jW60n.29645$vI7....@newsfe29.ams2...
My God! This clot needs some table manners.