OT: Market Reaction to Qasi's Budget

[Cursitor Doom]

I'm wondering if a white man would have got away with the exact same
measures? Perhaps the markets are taking fright at his skin colour
rather than the policy itself!

[Fredxx]

I think markets and business is pretty pragmatic. And the measures
themselves will be considered and not the skin colour. There were
already jitters in the market from the Tory magic money tree.

The market is clearly not convinced that a tax cut and borrowing will
have the desired effect. I recall Trump doing the same, and that did
have some stimulus. It's seen as a risk and markets don't like risk.

She's also deferred much tax revenue to next year, but then if Labour up
the tax rate after, what is likely to happen is money taken out of
companies next year instead of re-investment. I think her timing is
quite smart if she thinks she'll lose the next election but I dislike
the idea of generations to come will pay for our current (over) spending.

[Joe]

On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 10:57:56 +0100
Fredxx <fre...@spam.uk> wrote:

> I dislike
> the idea of generations to come will pay for our current (over)
> spending.
>

That's always been the case since 2008, if not earlier. The debt since
then has been literally impossible to pay off out of taxation.

The only alternatives are default or enormous inflation, until the
currency is worth no more than a hundredth of its current value.
Although if they continue to run gigantic deficits, even inflation
won't help, as the government will be taking on new debt at inflated
values.

Why politicians believe that inflation of that order can be stopped
before terminal hyperinflation, I don't know.

If, of course, they do believe that.

--
Joe

[Cursitor Doom]

Perhaps that's a large unstated part of the strategy: create inflation
to shrink the national debt. It's a huge temptation for all heavily
indebted countries (and there are very many of those in the first
world....)

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <tgrt34$3n5du$1...@dont-email.me>,

It does look suspiciously like a raid on the country to benefit the Tory
moneybags. As a short term measure, before losing the next election.

It might have made some sense before Covid and the Ukrainian war with the
subsequent effects to energy prices. But at this point in times looks like
putting a boy who failed his CGE maths in charge of a bank.

Of course when the emergency interest rate arrives, and wipes out any tax
savings for the average mortgage payer - and then some - even the Tory
base will see what a bunch of charlatans are now in charge.

--
*Caution: I drive like you do.

Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Bob Eager]

On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 14:46:30 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

> In article <tgrt34$3n5du$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Fredxx <fre...@spam.uk> wrote:
>> On 26/09/2022 10:43, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>> > I'm wondering if a white man would have got away with the exact same
>> > measures? Perhaps the markets are taking fright at his skin colour
>> > rather than the policy itself!
>
>> I think markets and business is pretty pragmatic. And the measures
>> themselves will be considered and not the skin colour. There were
>> already jitters in the market from the Tory magic money tree.
>
>> The market is clearly not convinced that a tax cut and borrowing will
>> have the desired effect. I recall Trump doing the same, and that did
>> have some stimulus. It's seen as a risk and markets don't like risk.
>
>> She's also deferred much tax revenue to next year, but then if Labour
>> up the tax rate after, what is likely to happen is money taken out of
>> companies next year instead of re-investment. I think her timing is
>> quite smart if she thinks she'll lose the next election but I dislike
>> the idea of generations to come will pay for our current (over)
>> spending.
>
> It does look suspiciously like a raid on the country to benefit the Tory
> moneybags. As a short term measure, before losing the next election.

It's also shitting in the pool to bugger the next government.

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

[R Souls]

On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 14:46:30 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"

This fiasco surely busts the age old myth of the Nasty Party being the
party of economic competence.

[Fredxx]

On 26/09/2022 14:46, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <tgrt34$3n5du$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Fredxx <fre...@spam.uk> wrote:
>> On 26/09/2022 10:43, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>> I'm wondering if a white man would have got away with the exact same
>>> measures? Perhaps the markets are taking fright at his skin colour
>>> rather than the policy itself!
>
>> I think markets and business is pretty pragmatic. And the measures
>> themselves will be considered and not the skin colour. There were
>> already jitters in the market from the Tory magic money tree.
>
>> The market is clearly not convinced that a tax cut and borrowing will
>> have the desired effect. I recall Trump doing the same, and that did
>> have some stimulus. It's seen as a risk and markets don't like risk.
>
>> She's also deferred much tax revenue to next year, but then if Labour up
>> the tax rate after, what is likely to happen is money taken out of
>> companies next year instead of re-investment. I think her timing is
>> quite smart if she thinks she'll lose the next election but I dislike
>> the idea of generations to come will pay for our current (over) spending.
>
> It does look suspiciously like a raid on the country to benefit the Tory
> moneybags. As a short term measure, before losing the next election.

The irony is because tax is generally paid by big tax payers the year
after [1] it may well be Labour that benefits from the higher tax receipts!

> It might have made some sense before Covid and the Ukrainian war with the
> subsequent effects to energy prices. But at this point in times looks like
> putting a boy who failed his CGE maths in charge of a bank.
>
> Of course when the emergency interest rate arrives, and wipes out any tax
> savings for the average mortgage payer - and then some - even the Tory
> base will see what a bunch of charlatans are now in charge.

Well, Labour do claim to represent the working population. Lets see if
they do away with IR35 in the way they've made noises in the past.

[1] Complicated by advance balancing payments.

[Andrew]

Politicians only think short term. If they can kick the can
down the road by bribing todays voters with their childrens
money to get their votes, then that is all that matters.

Forget taxing the real massive windfalls, i.e. House Prices
(because the great unwashed actually believe that the £5000
house in 1970, now 'worth' £650,000 is all theirs to keep),
lets bang on about energy company windfalls (while ignoring
the stupendous losses that they made in 2020).

After 10 years or so when the shit is about to hit the fan they
just jump ship either into the Lords for a nice £300 a day
for just signing in, or off to those lucrative private
companies who they lobbied on behalf on while being an MP.

[alan_m]

On 26/09/2022 12:36, Joe wrote:

> Why politicians believe that inflation of that order can be stopped
> before terminal hyperinflation, I don't know.

They have also been printing valueless money for the past decade or more
and at some time that would always come back to bite us in the arse.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

[Cursitor Doom]

On 26 Sep 2022 13:58:31 GMT, Bob Eager <news...@eager.cx> wrote:

>On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 14:46:30 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>
>> In article <tgrt34$3n5du$1...@dont-email.me>,
>> Fredxx <fre...@spam.uk> wrote:
>>> On 26/09/2022 10:43, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>> > I'm wondering if a white man would have got away with the exact same
>>> > measures? Perhaps the markets are taking fright at his skin colour
>>> > rather than the policy itself!
>>
>>> I think markets and business is pretty pragmatic. And the measures
>>> themselves will be considered and not the skin colour. There were
>>> already jitters in the market from the Tory magic money tree.
>>
>>> The market is clearly not convinced that a tax cut and borrowing will
>>> have the desired effect. I recall Trump doing the same, and that did
>>> have some stimulus. It's seen as a risk and markets don't like risk.
>>
>>> She's also deferred much tax revenue to next year, but then if Labour
>>> up the tax rate after, what is likely to happen is money taken out of
>>> companies next year instead of re-investment. I think her timing is
>>> quite smart if she thinks she'll lose the next election but I dislike
>>> the idea of generations to come will pay for our current (over)
>>> spending.
>>
>> It does look suspiciously like a raid on the country to benefit the Tory
>> moneybags. As a short term measure, before losing the next election.
>
>It's also shitting in the pool to bugger the next government.

Like Gordon Brown did for the incoming Tories.

[Fredxx]

I think the state of borrowing when Gordon Brown left office were a lot
healthier than the deficit Kwarteng is going to leave.

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 26/09/2022 10:43, Cursitor Doom wrote:

Well its all rather against the orthodoxy that has resulted in the mess
we are now in, so they probably fear for their jobs if it works


--
"Nature does not give up the winter because people dislike the cold."

― Confucius

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 26/09/2022 12:36, Joe wrote:

Basically politicians have been living on borrowed time and money since
forever.
They will invent a way out. Grabbing Russia's oiligarch money is a good
start. Once Saudi runs out of oil we will grab their assets too.




--
Future generations will wonder in bemused amazement that the early
twenty-first century’s developed world went into hysterical panic over a
globally average temperature increase of a few tenths of a degree, and,
on the basis of gross exaggerations of highly uncertain computer
projections combined into implausible chains of inference, proceeded to
contemplate a rollback of the industrial age.

Richard Lindzen

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 26/09/2022 15:28, alan_m wrote:
> On 26/09/2022 12:36, Joe wrote:
>
>> Why politicians believe that inflation of that order can be stopped
>> before terminal hyperinflation, I don't know.
>
> They have also been printing valueless money for the past decade or more
> and at some time that would always come back to bite us in the arse.
>

ever since Bretton Woods died in fact. 1971



--
"I am inclined to tell the truth and dislike people who lie consistently.
This makes me unfit for the company of people of a Left persuasion, and
all women"

[R Souls]

On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 10:43:19 +0100, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com>
wrote:

>I'm wondering if a white man would have got away with the exact same
>measures? Perhaps the markets are taking fright at his skin colour
>rather than the policy itself!

It's got nothing to do with his colour. It's because he's an
incompetent berk like the rest of the Nasty cabinet.

[Joe]

On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 15:15:03 +0100
Fredxx <fre...@spam.uk> wrote:


>
> Well, Labour do claim to represent the working population.

They haven't done that in my lifetime, I thought they had given up even
claiming it.

> Lets see
> if they do away with IR35 in the way they've made noises in the past.

Yer 'avin' a laugh. If Labour hates anyone more than Tories, it's the
self-employed.

--
Joe

[Rod Speed]

Fredxx <fre...@spam.uk> wrote

> Cursitor Doom wrote

>> I'm wondering if a white man would have got away with the exact same
>> measures? Perhaps the markets are taking fright at his skin colour
>> rather than the policy itself!

> I think markets and business is pretty pragmatic. And the measures
> themselves will be considered and not the skin colour. There were
> already jitters in the market from the Tory magic money tree.

It isn't a magic money tree, they are saying that a cut in the income
tax rate will boost the economy. That remains to be seen.

> The market is clearly not convinced that a tax cut and borrowing will
> have the desired effect. I recall Trump doing the same, and that did
> have some stimulus. It's seen as a risk and markets don't like risk.

That last is bullshit.

> She's also deferred much tax revenue to next year, but then if Labourup
> the tax rate after, what is likely to happen is money taken out of
> companies next year instead of re-investment. I think her timing is
> quite smart if she thinks she'll lose the next election but I dislike

> theidea of generations to come will pay for our current (over) spending.

And it is pretty clear that that those who bother to vote have never
liked Labour saying that they are going to have higher taxes.

[Cursitor Doom]

Black men are *never* incompetent!

[zall]

On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 21:36:54 +1000, Joe <j...@jretrading.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 10:57:56 +0100
> Fredxx <fre...@spam.uk> wrote:
>
>> I dislike
>> the idea of generations to come will pay for our current (over)
>> spending.
>>
>
> That's always been the case since 2008, if not earlier.

Since the Napoleonic Wars in fact.

> The debt since
> then has been literally impossible to pay off out of taxation.

That is less clear. The USA did manage to wipe out most of its
WW2 federal debt after WW2 had ended.

> The only alternatives are default or enormous inflation, until the
> currency is worth no more than a hundredth of its current value.

Have fun explaining why that didn't happen in the USA after WW2.

> Although if they continue to run gigantic deficits, even inflation
> won't help, as the government will be taking on new debt at inflated
> values.

That utterly mangles the real story too.

> Why politicians believe that inflation of that order can be stopped
> before terminal hyperinflation, I don't know.

Because that has been achieved before.

> If, of course, they do believe that.

All they actually believe is that they can get away with it politically.

[Rod Speed]

We'll see...

[Rod Speed]

alan_m <ju...@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote

> Joe wrote

>> Why politicians believe that inflation of that order can be stopped
>> before terminal hyperinflation, I don't know.

> They have also been printing valueless money for the past decade or more
> and at some time that would always come back to bite us in the arse.

Beats having the economy implode into another Great Depression.

[Rod Speed]

[Peeler]

On Tue, 27 Sep 2022 05:05:43 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
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[Peeler]

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trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

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[Peeler]

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[Peeler]

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[Peeler]

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[Bob Eager]

And Cursitor talks nothing but shit himself. I have him killfiled, and
only saw this because he was quoted.

[Brian Gaff]

Eh? The problem with the budget is that we are in many ways in uncharted
territory in the world at the moment, and as they often say, whatever you
do, you are damned if you do and damned if you don't as nobody knows what is
the right move to make. There will be winners and losers either way, and it
will cost money to repay what you borrow as interest rates rise.
Its really no different to personal finance is it?
What you have to aim for is smoothing out the peaks and troughs, but its a
bit like trying to calm an angry sea, you can only react to the height of
the next wave you can see on the surface, you have no warning or birds eye
view.
Brian

--

--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
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Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Cursitor Doom" <c...@notformail.com> wrote in message
news:5rs2jht97qca6tddn...@4ax.com...

[Rod Speed]

Brian Gaff <brian...@gmail.com> wrote

> Eh? The problem with the budget is that we are in many ways in uncharted
> territory in the world at the moment,

BULLSHIT.

> and as they often say, whatever you
> do, you are damned if you do and damned if you don't as nobody knows
> what is
> the right move to make.

More mindless bullshit.

> There will be winners and losers either way,

There always are.

> and it
> will cost money to repay what you borrow as interest rates rise.

> Its really no different to personal finance is it?

Completely different in fact.

> What you have to aim for is smoothing out the peaks and troughs, but
> its a
> bit like trying to calm an angry sea, you can only react to the height of
> the next wave you can see on the surface, you have no warning or birds
> eye
> view.

Nothing like in fact.

[Peeler]

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[zall]

On Tue, 27 Sep 2022 18:25:18 +1000, Jethro_uk <jeth...@hotmailbin.com>
wrote:

> On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 15:14:51 +0100, R Souls wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 14:46:30 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
>> <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <tgrt34$3n5du$1...@dont-email.me>,
>>> Fredxx <fre...@spam.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 26/09/2022 10:43, Cursitor Doom wrote:

>>>> > I'm wondering if a white man would have got away with the exact same
>>>> > measures? Perhaps the markets are taking fright at his skin colour
>>>> > rather than the policy itself!
>>>

>>>> I think markets and business is pretty pragmatic. And the measures
>>>> themselves will be considered and not the skin colour. There were
>>>> already jitters in the market from the Tory magic money tree.
>>>
>>>> The market is clearly not convinced that a tax cut and borrowing will
>>>> have the desired effect. I recall Trump doing the same, and that did
>>>> have some stimulus. It's seen as a risk and markets don't like risk.
>>>
>>>> She's also deferred much tax revenue to next year, but then if Labour
>>>> up the tax rate after, what is likely to happen is money taken out of
>>>> companies next year instead of re-investment. I think her timing is
>>>> quite smart if she thinks she'll lose the next election but I dislike
>>>> the idea of generations to come will pay for our current (over)
>>>> spending.
>>>
>>> It does look suspiciously like a raid on the country to benefit the
>>> Tory
>>> moneybags. As a short term measure, before losing the next election.
>>>

>>> It might have made some sense before Covid and the Ukrainian war with
>>> the subsequent effects to energy prices. But at this point in times
>>> looks like putting a boy who failed his CGE maths in charge of a bank.
>>>
>>> Of course when the emergency interest rate arrives, and wipes out any
>>> tax savings for the average mortgage payer - and then some - even the
>>> Tory base will see what a bunch of charlatans are now in charge.
>>
>> This fiasco surely busts the age old myth of the Nasty Party being the
>> party of economic competence.
>

> No sure where the evidence for that assertion comes from, really.

Its mindless bigotry.

[Fredxx]

CD no longer seems to post in the manner he used to. He has also put OT
in the subject that some other arseholes don't. Even his initial post is
balanced even though from my reply you might see I felt it was misguided.

[Fredxx]

On 27/09/2022 09:25, Jethro_uk wrote:

> On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 15:14:51 +0100, R Souls wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 14:46:30 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
>> <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <tgrt34$3n5du$1...@dont-email.me>,
>>> Fredxx <fre...@spam.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 26/09/2022 10:43, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>>> I'm wondering if a white man would have got away with the exact same
>>>>> measures? Perhaps the markets are taking fright at his skin colour
>>>>> rather than the policy itself!
>>>
>>>> I think markets and business is pretty pragmatic. And the measures
>>>> themselves will be considered and not the skin colour. There were
>>>> already jitters in the market from the Tory magic money tree.
>>>
>>>> The market is clearly not convinced that a tax cut and borrowing will
>>>> have the desired effect. I recall Trump doing the same, and that did
>>>> have some stimulus. It's seen as a risk and markets don't like risk.
>>>
>>>> She's also deferred much tax revenue to next year, but then if Labour
>>>> up the tax rate after, what is likely to happen is money taken out of
>>>> companies next year instead of re-investment. I think her timing is
>>>> quite smart if she thinks she'll lose the next election but I dislike
>>>> the idea of generations to come will pay for our current (over)
>>>> spending.
>>>
>>> It does look suspiciously like a raid on the country to benefit the Tory
>>> moneybags. As a short term measure, before losing the next election.
>>>

>>> It might have made some sense before Covid and the Ukrainian war with
>>> the subsequent effects to energy prices. But at this point in times
>>> looks like putting a boy who failed his CGE maths in charge of a bank.
>>>
>>> Of course when the emergency interest rate arrives, and wipes out any
>>> tax savings for the average mortgage payer - and then some - even the
>>> Tory base will see what a bunch of charlatans are now in charge.
>>
>> This fiasco surely busts the age old myth of the Nasty Party being the
>> party of economic competence.
>
> No sure where the evidence for that assertion comes from, really.

Well, the magic money tree was an expression that would historically be
used towards Labour. Now it can be rightfully be used by Labour towards
the Tories.

Whether I would call spend, cut taxes and borrow incompetence is another
question, however I would still feel obliged to use a similar
descriptive noun.

[Fredxx]

Yet they are a large workforce:

https://www.ipse.co.uk/policy/research/the-self-employed-landscape/the-self-employed-landscape-report-2020.html

Large groups of this size tend to create traction in manifestos and
policies.

[Rod Speed]

Bullshit it is with his original stupidly about race.

> even though from my reply you might see I felt it was misguided.

And just as stupid as he always is.

[Rod Speed]

Nope. The claim that reducing income tax rates might
see the economy do better is certainly aguable, but
nothing even remotely like a magic money tree.

> Whether I would call spend, cut taxes and borrow incompetence is another
> question, however I would still feel obliged to use a similar
> descriptive noun.

More fool you.

[Jim Stewart ...]

On 26/09/2022 10:43, Cursitor Doom wrote:
> I'm wondering if a white man would have got away with the exact same
> measures? Perhaps the markets are taking fright at his skin colour
> rather than the policy itself!

I took fright at his name .....

[Fredxx]

The only other Quasi I know is in the Octonauts.

[Peeler]

On Tue, 27 Sep 2022 20:26:56 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent

Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

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[Peeler]

On Tue, 27 Sep 2022 19:26:13 +1000, zall, better known as cantankerous

trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

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[Peeler]

On Tue, 27 Sep 2022 20:28:56 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent

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[Ponyface]

On 26/09/2022 15:25, Andrew wrote:

> On 26/09/2022 12:36, Joe wrote:
>> On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 10:57:56 +0100
>> Fredxx <fre...@spam.uk> wrote:
>>

>>> I dislike
>>> the idea of generations to come will pay for our current (over)
>>> spending.
>>>
>>

>> That's always been the case since 2008, if not earlier. The debt since

>> then has been literally impossible to pay off out of taxation.
>>

>> The only alternatives are default or enormous inflation, until the
>> currency is worth no more than a hundredth of its current value.

>> Although if they continue to run gigantic deficits, even inflation
>> won't help, as the government will be taking on new debt at inflated
>> values.
>>

>> Why politicians believe that inflation of that order can be stopped
>> before terminal hyperinflation, I don't know.
>>

>> If, of course, they do believe that.
>>
>

> Politicians only think short term. If they can kick the can
> down the road by bribing todays voters with their childrens
> money to get their votes, then that is all that matters.
>
> Forget taxing the real massive windfalls, i.e. House Prices
> (because the great unwashed actually believe that the £5000
> house in 1970, now 'worth' £650,000 is all theirs to keep),
> lets bang on about energy company windfalls (while ignoring
> the stupendous losses that they made in 2020).
>
> After 10 years or so when the shit is about to hit the fan they
> just jump ship either into the Lords for a nice £300 a day
> for just signing in, or off to those lucrative private
> companies who they lobbied on behalf on while being an MP.
>

+1

[SteveW]

On 27/09/2022 11:12, Fredxx wrote:
> On 26/09/2022 19:08, Joe wrote:
>> On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 15:15:03 +0100
>> Fredxx <fre...@spam.uk> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Well, Labour do claim to represent the working population.
>>
>> They haven't done that in my lifetime, I thought they had given up even
>> claiming it.
>>
>>> Lets see
>>> if they do away with IR35 in the way they've made noises in the past.
>>
>> Yer 'avin' a laugh. If Labour hates anyone more than Tories, it's the
>> self-employed.
>
> Yet they are a large workforce:
>
> https://www.ipse.co.uk/policy/research/the-self-employed-landscape/the-self-employed-landscape-report-2020.html

And many a caught up in IR35, paying the same tax, via PAYE as
employees, but with no holiday pay, no sick pay, no redundancy pay, no
security of employment and no employers pension scheme.

[Cursitor Doom]

On Tue, 27 Sep 2022 09:06:19 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
<brian...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Eh? The problem with the budget is that we are in many ways in uncharted
>territory in the world at the moment, and as they often say, whatever you
>do, you are damned if you do and damned if you don't as nobody knows what is
>the right move to make. There will be winners and losers either way, and it
>will cost money to repay what you borrow as interest rates rise.
> Its really no different to personal finance is it?
> What you have to aim for is smoothing out the peaks and troughs, but its a
>bit like trying to calm an angry sea, you can only react to the height of
>the next wave you can see on the surface, you have no warning or birds eye
>view.
> Brian

Okay, you want a sea-fairing analogy: you don't put up your spinnaker
when there's a storm a-brewing!

[Cursitor Doom]

Misguided? I admit I tend to forget the constituency here is not that
familiar with day to day banking news.
I should perhaps have mentioned the rational behind my posting was the
experience of UBS when they installed a black man as CEO in order to
appear progressive. Without that awareness I concede the tone of my
post may have seemed overly sceptical. Many in the banking industry
won't forget UBS's collapse in a hurry.

[Cursitor Doom]

It's all ultimately Liz Truss's fault anyway. I'll bet a pound to a
penny the Conservative membership would *never* have picked that
bloody useless cunt if given a proper choice rather than just: here's
two useless cunts; pick the least worst.

[R Souls]

On Tue, 27 Sep 2022 05:01:56 +1000, "Rod Speed"
<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 27 Sep 2022 00:14:51 +1000, R Souls <ron....@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 14:46:30 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
>> <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <tgrt34$3n5du$1...@dont-email.me>,

>>> Fredxx <fre...@spam.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 26/09/2022 10:43, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>> > I'm wondering if a white man would have got away with the exact same
>>>> > measures? Perhaps the markets are taking fright at his skin colour
>>>> > rather than the policy itself!
>>>

>>>> I think markets and business is pretty pragmatic. And the measures
>>>> themselves will be considered and not the skin colour. There were
>>>> already jitters in the market from the Tory magic money tree.
>>>
>>>> The market is clearly not convinced that a tax cut and borrowing will
>>>> have the desired effect. I recall Trump doing the same, and that did
>>>> have some stimulus. It's seen as a risk and markets don't like risk.
>>>
>>>> She's also deferred much tax revenue to next year, but then if Labour
>>>> up
>>>> the tax rate after, what is likely to happen is money taken out of
>>>> companies next year instead of re-investment. I think her timing is
>>>> quite smart if she thinks she'll lose the next election but I dislike
>>>> the idea of generations to come will pay for our current (over)
>>>> spending.
>>>
>>> It does look suspiciously like a raid on the country to benefit the Tory
>>> moneybags. As a short term measure, before losing the next election.
>>>

>>> It might have made some sense before Covid and the Ukrainian war with
>>> the
>>> subsequent effects to energy prices. But at this point in times looks
>>> like
>>> putting a boy who failed his CGE maths in charge of a bank.
>>>
>>> Of course when the emergency interest rate arrives, and wipes out any
>>> tax
>>> savings for the average mortgage payer - and then some - even the Tory
>>> base will see what a bunch of charlatans are now in charge.
>>
>> This fiasco surely busts the age old myth of the Nasty Party being the
>> party of economic competence.
>

>We'll see...

We've already seen. Your opinions are unwelcome and worthless. Now
fuck off.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <tgva3u$3pu4$1...@dont-email.me>,

Have things changed, then? When I was working, a free lance who didn't
qualify for self employment status (usually classed as an assistant,
rather than supervisor) was on PAYE, but got sick and holiday pay
included. Obviously not an employer's pension scheme, though.

--
*You! Off my planet!

Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[mechanic]

On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 12:36:54 +0100, Joe wrote:

> On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 10:57:56 +0100
> Fredxx <fre...@spam.uk> wrote:
>

>> I dislike the idea of generations to come will pay for our
>> current (over) spending.
>>
>

> That's always been the case since 2008, if not earlier. The debt
> since then has been literally impossible to pay off out of
> taxation.

Sounds like George Osborne talking - now we all tend to dismiss 'pay
off the debt' as out of date - MMT tells us that debt is good. It
pays our pensions for a start.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <urs8jh59laqeeb0se...@4ax.com>,

R Souls <ron....@aol.com> wrote:
> >> This fiasco surely busts the age old myth of the Nasty Party being the
> >> party of economic competence.
> >
> >We'll see...

> We've already seen. Your opinions are unwelcome and worthless. Now
> fuck off.

And now it seems the treasury are buying back government bonds in an
attempt to slow the run on the pound.

So we now have parts of the government in direct conflict.

If it were a TV drama it would be slagged off as pure fantasy.

--
*Acupuncture is a jab well done*

[mechanic]

On Tue, 27 Sep 2022 04:54:30 +1000, zall wrote:

> Since the Napoleonic Wars in fact.

>
>> The debt since then has been literally impossible to pay off out
>> of taxation.
>

> That is less clear. The USA did manage to wipe out most of its
> WW2 federal debt after WW2 had ended.

Yes, we're no longer paying for the Falklands or for Iraq, future
generations should have no worries.

[Andrew]

On 26/09/2022 19:54, zall wrote:

>
> Since the Napoleonic Wars in fact.

Err, since the War of the triple Alliance where certain
London Merchant banks made their names and fortunes
arranging deals to fund it.

[Andrew]

On 26/09/2022 19:51, Cursitor Doom wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 17:58:12 +0100, R Souls <ron....@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 10:43:19 +0100, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com>

>> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm wondering if a white man would have got away with the exact same
>>> measures? Perhaps the markets are taking fright at his skin colour
>>> rather than the policy itself!
>>

>> It's got nothing to do with his colour. It's because he's an
>> incompetent berk like the rest of the Nasty cabinet.
>
> Black men are *never* incompetent!

This chap hardly disgraced himeself at the PRU and other places.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tidjane_Thiam

[Andrew]

Wrong. They go back a long way and have been planning this daft
tax cut for a long time.

[Rod Speed]

Nope, we haven't seen what effect the income tax cuts have had on the
economy yet.

<reams of your arseholes shit flushed where it belongs>

[zall]

On Thu, 29 Sep 2022 03:33:45 +1000, Dave Plowman (News)
<da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <urs8jh59laqeeb0se...@4ax.com>,
> R Souls <ron....@aol.com> wrote:
>> >> This fiasco surely busts the age old myth of the Nasty Party being
>> the
>> >> party of economic competence.
>> >
>> >We'll see...
>
>> We've already seen.

> And now it seems the treasury are buying back government bonds in an
> attempt to slow the run on the pound.

Normal response.

> So we now have parts of the government in direct conflict.

Nope.

> If it were a TV drama it would be slagged off as pure fantasy.

Nope, we have see that before.

[Peeler]

On Thu, 29 Sep 2022 05:09:26 +1000, zall, better known as cantankerous

trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--

FredXX to Rodent Speed:
"You are still an idiot and an embarrassment to your country. No wonder
we shipped the likes of you out of the British Isles. Perhaps stupidity
and criminality is inherited after all?"
Message-ID: <plbf76$gfl$1...@dont-email.me>

[Peeler]

On Thu, 29 Sep 2022 05:05:28 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent

Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--

R Souls addressing the trolling senile Australian cretin:

"Your opinions are unwelcome and worthless. Now fuck off."

MID: <urs8jh59laqeeb0se...@4ax.com>

[SteveW]

Many contractors who ran their own limited companies and dealt company
to company, got no employment benefits, but paid a little less tax. Last
year, companies using contractors were given the responsibility of
deciding whether the contractors that they used were outside IR35 and
could continue as before or inside and had to go PAYE (paying more tax).
Many companies used the software tools that analysed each contractor's
position, but then, to avoid any possible come-back from HMRC, decided
to ignore the analysis that put them outside IR35 and simply decide that
everyone was inside, forcing them to pay the extra tax, but did not give
the employment benefits or increase the rates to compensate.

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 28/09/2022 16:42, Cursitor Doom wrote:

I think your criticism is premature.
Whilst the WEF, the labour party and the bank of England are all against
her, many people think this is a risk that is well worth taking, since
traditional economics have simply degraded britains wealth production
ever since Blair.


--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.
-- Yogi Berra

[R Souls]

On Thu, 29 Sep 2022 08:31:02 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
<t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>On 28/09/2022 16:42, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>> On Tue, 27 Sep 2022 11:54:48 +0100, "Jim Stewart ..."
>> <kinvig...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 26/09/2022 10:43, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>> I'm wondering if a white man would have got away with the exact same
>>>> measures? Perhaps the markets are taking fright at his skin colour
>>>> rather than the policy itself!
>>> I took fright at his name .....
>>
>> It's all ultimately Liz Truss's fault anyway. I'll bet a pound to a
>> penny the Conservative membership would *never* have picked that
>> bloody useless cunt if given a proper choice rather than just: here's
>> two useless cunts; pick the least worst.
>I think your criticism is premature.
>Whilst the WEF, the labour party and the bank of England are all against
>her, many people think this is a risk that is well worth taking, since
>traditional economics have simply degraded britains wealth production
>ever since Blair.

Remind us who has been in government for the past 12 years.

[Joe]

Does it also tell us that unlimited inflation is also good? The thing
that wipes out non-index-linked pensions?

When the MMT fans also show us how to print goods and services, as
well as unbacked currency, then I'll start listening to them.

--
Joe

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <th3hjm$k4j5$2...@dont-email.me>,

The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> On 28/09/2022 16:42, Cursitor Doom wrote:
> > On Tue, 27 Sep 2022 11:54:48 +0100, "Jim Stewart ..."
> > <kinvig...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 26/09/2022 10:43, Cursitor Doom wrote:
> >>> I'm wondering if a white man would have got away with the exact same
> >>> measures? Perhaps the markets are taking fright at his skin colour
> >>> rather than the policy itself!
> >> I took fright at his name .....
> >
> > It's all ultimately Liz Truss's fault anyway. I'll bet a pound to a
> > penny the Conservative membership would *never* have picked that
> > bloody useless cunt if given a proper choice rather than just: here's
> > two useless cunts; pick the least worst.

> I think your criticism is premature.
> Whilst the WEF, the labour party and the bank of England are all against
> her, many people think this is a risk that is well worth taking, since
> traditional economics have simply degraded britains wealth production
> ever since Blair.

So what you're saying is the Tories have made a mess of the economy since
they've been in power? Which, of course, includes Brexit. Good to know
you've finally seen the light.

--
*It's o.k. to laugh during sexŚ.Ś.just don't point!

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <op.1s7zh...@pvr2.lan>,

zall <zal...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > And now it seems the treasury are buying back government bonds in an
> > attempt to slow the run on the pound.

> Normal response.

Not so. An attempt to shore up pension funds. Seems most of those unload
gilts automatically when things get bad.

--
*Bigamy is having one wife too many - monogamy is the same

[Pancho]

On 29/09/2022 15:13, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

>>> It's all ultimately Liz Truss's fault anyway. I'll bet a pound to a
>>> penny the Conservative membership would *never* have picked that
>>> bloody useless cunt if given a proper choice rather than just: here's
>>> two useless cunts; pick the least worst.
>
>> I think your criticism is premature.
>> Whilst the WEF, the labour party and the bank of England are all against
>> her, many people think this is a risk that is well worth taking, since
>> traditional economics have simply degraded britains wealth production
>> ever since Blair.
>
> So what you're saying is the Tories have made a mess of the economy since
> they've been in power? Which, of course, includes Brexit. Good to know
> you've finally seen the light.
>

One has to suspect the historical (2007+) UK stagnation in productivity
per worker is largely due to cheap labour arriving from the EU, driving
down salaries. I would think it would need 5 to 10 years to see higher
labour costs drive automation and an increase in productivity.

<http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN02791/assets/972b4453-79fc-4e92-a91c-70c534c282d5.png>

I would have given the effects of Brexit a bit longer to take effect
before giving up on traditional economic policy.

[Fredxx]

On 29/09/2022 15:13, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

> In article <th3hjm$k4j5$2...@dont-email.me>,
> The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 28/09/2022 16:42, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>> On Tue, 27 Sep 2022 11:54:48 +0100, "Jim Stewart ..."
>>> <kinvig...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 26/09/2022 10:43, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>>> I'm wondering if a white man would have got away with the exact same
>>>>> measures? Perhaps the markets are taking fright at his skin colour
>>>>> rather than the policy itself!
>>>> I took fright at his name .....
>>>
>>> It's all ultimately Liz Truss's fault anyway. I'll bet a pound to a
>>> penny the Conservative membership would *never* have picked that
>>> bloody useless cunt if given a proper choice rather than just: here's
>>> two useless cunts; pick the least worst.
>
>> I think your criticism is premature.
>> Whilst the WEF, the labour party and the bank of England are all against
>> her, many people think this is a risk that is well worth taking, since
>> traditional economics have simply degraded britains wealth production
>> ever since Blair.
>
> So what you're saying is the Tories have made a mess of the economy since
> they've been in power? Which, of course, includes Brexit. Good to know
> you've finally seen the light.

I think what everyone has been saying for years, is that the Tories will
make a lesser mess of the economy than Labour.

Then Liz Truss comes along. Lets see if she's still PM in 2 years time.
She certainly has no electoral mandate, just like Gordon Brown, and we
all know what happened there!

[Cursitor Doom]

Wikipedia is compromised and highly woke. It's not a reliable source
of information any more (if it ever was, given any tosser can write
for it).

[Cursitor Doom]

My comments were not in relation to her fiscal agenda. She's just a
useless cunt like all the others have been. Theresa May Mk II by the
look of her.

[Cursitor Doom]

Globalists. Actually a damn sight longer than just the last 12 years.
What Britain needs desperately is a right-wing strong man; a kind of
Stalin of the right if you will. Someone who will put the British
people first, second and third and tell cunts like Klaus Schwab to go
to hell where he belongs.

[zall]

On Fri, 30 Sep 2022 00:15:40 +1000, Dave Plowman (News)
<da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <op.1s7zh...@pvr2.lan>,
> zall <zal...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > And now it seems the treasury are buying back government bonds in an
>> > attempt to slow the run on the pound.
>
>> Normal response.
>
> Not so.

It is a normal response to a slumping currency and has been done before.

> An attempt to shore up pension funds.

No.

> Seems most of those unload
> gilts automatically when things get bad.

That isn't true either.

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 29/09/2022 18:22, Cursitor Doom wrote:

>
> My comments were not in relation to her fiscal agenda. She's just a
> useless cunt like all the others have been. Theresa May Mk II by the
> look of her.

I don't think so, but time will tell.

Theresa in the end did what she was told. The criticism levelled at
Truss is that she isn't doing what she was told

--
Future generations will wonder in bemused amazement that the early
twenty-first century’s developed world went into hysterical panic over a
globally average temperature increase of a few tenths of a degree, and,
on the basis of gross exaggerations of highly uncertain computer
projections combined into implausible chains of inference, proceeded to
contemplate a rollback of the industrial age.

Richard Lindzen

[The Natural Philosopher]

She is maybe called Liz Truss


--
“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the
other is to refuse to believe what is true.”

—Soren Kierkegaard

[Peeler]

On Fri, 30 Sep 2022 03:56:12 +1000, zall, better known as cantankerous

trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--

Keema Nam addressing nym-shifting senile Rodent:
"You are now exposed as a liar, as well as an ignorant troll."
"MID: <0001HW.22B654E700...@news.giganews.com>"

[Cursitor Doom]

On Thu, 29 Sep 2022 19:51:03 +0100, The Natural Philosopher

Not a hope in hell and if you don't know that already, you're a damn
fool.

[Pomegranate Bastard]

On Thu, 29 Sep 2022 18:28:48 +0100, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com>

As a foreigner, why are you so exercised about the state of British
politics?

[Cursitor Doom]

Being of the soil of England and a 40th generation Angle, I may want
to return some day. If the tax regime permits of course.

[The Natural Philosopher]

I am not so sure.
Everyone wants to blame Liz for not doing what the establishment wants,
when she was put there to not do what the establishment wants in the
first place.
We have had years of high tax, austerity and manage the decline. It
hasn't worked. A new approach may work.

I think you are too quick to jump to conclusions.


--
Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <th6lpb$10e65$1...@dont-email.me>,

Let's see now. You reduce the income needed to run the country by cutting
taxes. And make up the difference by borrowing. Remind us of just how your
own business failed?

--
*A backward poet writes inverse.*

[The Other John]

On Fri, 30 Sep 2022 14:09:42 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

> Let's see now. You reduce the income needed to run the country by
> cutting taxes. And make up the difference by borrowing.

Has anyone calculated the loss of income tax versus the increase in VAT
income from people spending more?

--
TOJ.

[Fredxx]

Most higher rate tax payers are least likely to spend much of their
newly found untaxed income on goods subject to VAT.

It is a well known feature that people on low incomes pay a
disproportional amount of their income on VAT.

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 30/09/2022 14:52, The Other John wrote:

ROFLMAO!
Our Dave thinks that his taxes go on 'running the country'?

Bless!

--
“It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established
authorities are wrong.”

― Voltaire, The Age of Louis XIV

[Pomegranate Bastard]

On Fri, 30 Sep 2022 10:31:20 +0100, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com>

Please don't. But I bet IOM will be glad to see the back of you.

[Fredxx]

On 30/09/2022 16:01, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 30/09/2022 14:52, The Other John wrote:
>> On Fri, 30 Sep 2022 14:09:42 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>>
>>> Let's see now. You reduce the income needed to run the country by
>>> cutting taxes. And make up the difference by borrowing.
>>
>> Has anyone calculated the loss of income tax versus the increase in VAT
>> income from people spending more?
>>
> ROFLMAO!
> Our Dave thinks that his taxes go on 'running the country'?
>
> Bless!

Why on earth do you use the term "running the country"? It's the sort of
riposte I might expect from an art student, who's wet behind the ears.

Are you a former socialist, so you immediately know what socialists
think? Do you feel the need to decide how others 'think'?

Clearly you don't have a clue.

[The Other John]

On Fri, 30 Sep 2022 15:16:57 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

> Most higher rate tax payers are least likely to spend much of their
> newly found untaxed income on goods subject to VAT.

Aren't yachts subject to VAT? :)

--
TOJ.

[billy bookcase]

"The Other John" <nom...@here.org> wrote in message news:th6sa9$112er$1...@dont-email.me...

What you think top rate taxpayers are going to buy more TV's or something ?

If they've got any sense, they'll be investing that extra income;only not in sterling
or gilts or in any UK based investments or assets, at all. A new swimming pool
for that hideaway in France perhaps ? Or maybe a Swiss chalet as well ? The world
is their oyster.

Its called "trickle abroad" as has been the case , ever since the wholesale abolition
of exchange controls

bb

[Fredxx]

Not generally.

Even ones built here will be exported to a friendly tax country before
sale.

Yes, if you're stupid enough to buy one in the UK or buying one as a VAT
registered entity for non-personal use of course.

[Fredxx]

Exchange controls simply mean your money is work more offshore than on,
and encourages foreign transfers.

If you still believe you're right, and indeed you may, do feel free to
cite articles supporting your belief.

[JNugent]

How can that be?

The rate is the same (other than for domestic energy).

Foodstuffs are zero-rated.

[zall]

On Fri, 30 Sep 2022 23:09:42 +1000, Dave Plowman (News)
<da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <th6lpb$10e65$1...@dont-email.me>,
> The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> I am not so sure.
>> Everyone wants to blame Liz for not doing what the establishment wants,
>> when she was put there to not do what the establishment wants in the
>> first place.
>> We have had years of high tax, austerity and manage the decline. It
>> hasn't worked. A new approach may work.
>
> Let's see now. You reduce the income needed to run the country by cutting
> taxes. And make up the difference by borrowing.

But believe that the tax cut will stimulate the economy
and so the income will not be reduced forever.

That approach has worked in the past. It remains to be
seen if it will for Britain this time.

[billy bookcase]

"Fredxx" <fre...@spam.uk> wrote in message news:th74sv$11v76$2...@dont-email.me...

Exchange controls meant that at one time, you couldn't take more than £100 out of the
country.

>
> If you still believe you're right, and indeed you may, do feel free to cite articles
> supporting your belief.

May I humbly suggest that *you* acquaint yourself with the subject at hand before issuing
further edicts ?

bb

[billy bookcase]

"zall" <zal...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:op.1tbhr...@pvr2.lan...

That was in the days before everything was made in China.

Or owned by some foreign company or other, with the profits
disappearing abroad

The British companies worth owning, are probably being
bought up right now, given the state of the pound.


bb

[zall]

Not possible to calculate because it is unknown how much
of the saving in income tax will be spent on VATed purchases.

[Rod Speed]

But may not in this case if they spend it on un taxed food.

[mechanic]

On Thu, 29 Sep 2022 12:09:11 +0100, Joe wrote:

>> Sounds like George Osborne talking - now we all tend to dismiss
>> 'pay off the debt' as out of date - MMT tells us that debt is
>> good. It pays our pensions for a start.
>
> Does it also tell us that unlimited inflation is also good? The
> thing that wipes out non-index-linked pensions?

Taxation and MMT:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyczLgF5DfI

[Joe]

On Fri, 30 Sep 2022 17:38:10 +0100
"billy bookcase" <bi...@anon.com> wrote:


> Exchange controls meant that at one time, you couldn't take more than

> _100 out of the country.
>
>

50GBP in Harold Wilson's day.

--
Joe

[The Natural Philosopher]

Pound now above pre budget levels.


--
"Anyone who believes that the laws of physics are mere social
conventions is invited to try transgressing those conventions from the
windows of my apartment. (I live on the twenty-first floor.) "

Alan Sokal

[Peeler]

On Sat, 01 Oct 2022 02:50:15 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--

R Souls addressing the trolling senile Australian cretin:
"Your opinions are unwelcome and worthless. Now fuck off."
MID: <urs8jh59laqeeb0se...@4ax.com>

[Peeler]

On Sat, 01 Oct 2022 02:47:14 +1000, zall, better known as cantankerous

trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--

David Plowman about senile Rodent Speed's trolling:
"Wodney is doing a lot of morphing these days. Must be even more desperate
than usual for attention."
MID: <59a60da...@davenoise.co.uk>