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life expectancy of copper hot water cylinder
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fred
Jun 15, 2015, 8:17:35 AM6/15/15
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We are having to replace a copper hot water cylinder for the second time in 25 years. Does this sound normal. Anyway what makes them fail. We are in a soft water area.
newshound
Jun 15, 2015, 10:43:33 AM6/15/15
to
On 15/06/2015 13:17, fred wrote:
> We are having to replace a copper hot water cylinder for the second time in 25 years. Does this sound normal. Anyway what makes them fail. We are in a soft water area.
>
Because of corrosion?
> We are having to replace a copper hot water cylinder for the second time in 25 years. Does this sound normal. Anyway what makes them fail. We are in a soft water area.
>
Modern ones are certainly thinner than older ones, but ~ 10 years sounds
short. If the failure occurred in the same area I would be wondering
about some concentration of corrosive products, or a "dissimilar metals"
problem.
When you say a soft water area, I believe water from peat areas is
relatively acidic, which might not help.
More details needed!
Jim GM4DHJ ...
Jun 15, 2015, 10:53:00 AM6/15/15
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"newshound" <news...@stevejqr.plus.com> wrote in message
news:k_CdnbCFQMQOeePI...@brightview.co.uk...
harry
Jun 15, 2015, 12:00:06 PM6/15/15
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On Monday, June 15, 2015 at 1:17:35 PM UTC+1, fred wrote:
> We are having to replace a copper hot water cylinder for the second time in 25 years. Does this sound normal. Anyway what makes them fail. We are in a soft water area.
The water company is supposed to treat any acidic water so it doesn't affect pipes and cylinders.
> We are having to replace a copper hot water cylinder for the second time in 25 years. Does this sound normal. Anyway what makes them fail. We are in a soft water area.
Get some narrow range litmus paper and check your water.
If it is acidic complain to them.
Don't forget, every pipe in your house may be corroding away.
Could have a flood and major expense.
spuorg...@gowanhill.com
Jun 15, 2015, 12:00:42 PM6/15/15
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On Monday, 15 June 2015 15:53:00 UTC+1, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
> case of pete in the bogs and heather in the hills......
Perhaps Pete and Heather should get a room?
> case of pete in the bogs and heather in the hills......
Owain
michael adams
Jun 15, 2015, 12:46:04 PM6/15/15
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"fred" <tpmc...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:fe4e67a6-1e4a-4e45...@googlegroups.com...
> We are having to replace a copper hot water cylinder for the
> second time in 25 years. Does this sound normal. Anyway what
> makes them fail. We are in a soft water area.
the replacement, assuming its fairly local might be able to put
you straight. Either them or any neighbours.
michael adams
...
F Murtz
Jun 15, 2015, 11:40:50 PM6/15/15
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fred wrote:
> We are having to replace a copper hot water cylinder for the second time in 25 years. Does this sound normal. Anyway what makes them fail. We are in a soft water area.
>
You are probably supposed to replace a sacrificial anode after 5 years,
> We are having to replace a copper hot water cylinder for the second time in 25 years. Does this sound normal. Anyway what makes them fail. We are in a soft water area.
>
All our mains pressure copper water heaters have them but I have never
seen anyone replace them.
Rod Speed
Jun 16, 2015, 12:27:03 AM6/16/15
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"F Murtz" <hag...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:557f9abf$0$54714$c3e8da3$fdf4...@news.astraweb.com...
> fred wrote:
>> We are having to replace a copper hot water cylinder for the second time
>> in 25 years. Does this sound normal. Anyway what makes them fail. We are
>> in a soft water area.
>>
> You are probably supposed to replace a sacrificial anode after 5 years,
Yes, but my first one lasted 35 years even when I didn't do that. Very soft
>> We are having to replace a copper hot water cylinder for the second time
>> in 25 years. Does this sound normal. Anyway what makes them fail. We are
>> in a soft water area.
>>
> You are probably supposed to replace a sacrificial anode after 5 years,
water.
> All our mains pressure copper water heaters have them but I have never
> seen anyone replace them.
the new water heater is older than that now and I kicked
myself when I realised I hadn't done it with the first one.
harry
Jun 16, 2015, 12:47:36 AM6/16/15
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On Monday, June 15, 2015 at 1:17:35 PM UTC+1, fred wrote:
> We are having to replace a copper hot water cylinder for the second time in 25 years. Does this sound normal. Anyway what makes them fail. We are in a soft water area.
You could get a stainless steel replacement.
However,all your pipework may be similarly affected.
This is an advantage of plastic pipes over copper.
Dave Plowman (News)
Jun 16, 2015, 3:48:32 AM6/16/15
to
In article <c3a988af-0c9d-466d...@googlegroups.com>,
Under most circumstances, copper will last a lifetime plus. Too early to
say if plastic will. I'd guess not.
--
*They call it PMS because Mad Cow Disease was already taken.
Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
say if plastic will. I'd guess not.
--
*They call it PMS because Mad Cow Disease was already taken.
Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
F Murtz
Jun 16, 2015, 4:29:42 AM6/16/15
to
litre heater to bits to make a potbelly stove and there was bits of junk
everywhere so I still do not know what an anode in a 50litre looks like.
CB
Jun 16, 2015, 4:39:56 AM6/16/15
to
On 15/06/2015 13:17, fred wrote:
> We are having to replace a copper hot water cylinder for the second time in 25 years. Does this sound normal. Anyway what makes them fail. We are in a soft water area.
>
I have lived in this house since it was built (1987). Just about every
>
house in the close had its hot water tank (all unpressurized) replaced
when the houses were 12-15 years old. Although this of course may have
been a faulty batch. We are now approaching the end of the second life
period so I hope that the replacement I fitted was of higher quality.
They all failed at the cold water entry point so I don't know if this
was an area subject to condensation caused corrosion or a manufacturing
fault.
This is not a soft water area.
--
CB
Rod Speed
Jun 16, 2015, 5:41:42 AM6/16/15
to
news:557fde73$0$19896$c3e8da3$3388...@news.astraweb.com...
I still have the old one, mainly because I had heard that you can get
a decent price for the corpse if you remove the non copper fittings.
Haven't got around to doing that, so I might get around to seeing
what the anode looks like sometime.
a decent price for the corpse if you remove the non copper fittings.
Haven't got around to doing that, so I might get around to seeing
what the anode looks like sometime.
Windmill
Jun 16, 2015, 5:02:31 PM6/16/15
to
"Dave Plowman (News)" <da...@davenoise.co.uk> writes:
>In article <c3a988af-0c9d-466d...@googlegroups.com>,
> harry <harry...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> On Monday, June 15, 2015 at 1:17:35 PM UTC+1, fred wrote:
>> > We are having to replace a copper hot water cylinder for the second
>> > time in 25 years. Does this sound normal. Anyway what makes them fail.
>> > We are in a soft water area.
>> You could get a stainless steel replacement.
>> However,all your pipework may be similarly affected.
>> This is an advantage of plastic pipes over copper.
>Under most circumstances, copper will last a lifetime plus. Too early to
>say if plastic will. I'd guess not.
That has been my impression. Perhaps insurance companies stick in an
>In article <c3a988af-0c9d-466d...@googlegroups.com>,
> harry <harry...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> On Monday, June 15, 2015 at 1:17:35 PM UTC+1, fred wrote:
>> > We are having to replace a copper hot water cylinder for the second
>> > time in 25 years. Does this sound normal. Anyway what makes them fail.
>> > We are in a soft water area.
>> You could get a stainless steel replacement.
>> However,all your pipework may be similarly affected.
>> This is an advantage of plastic pipes over copper.
>Under most circumstances, copper will last a lifetime plus. Too early to
>say if plastic will. I'd guess not.
oar to try to improve life expectancy of copper tanks (vitally
important for the many flats in the UK).
I was amazed by the short life (~10 years) of what they describe as
'glass-lined steel tanks' in Canadian gas heated homes.
Had to replace one after only a few years, but luckily at that time I
was still allowed to do the work myself. Probably no longer possible
even there, due to "elf an' safety", but when I visited the house 15
years later, the purchaser was still there, had no complaints, and the
house hadn't blown up.
I just hope the short-changers don't try the same tank life scam here.
--
Windmill, Til...@NoneHome.com Use t m i l l
J.R.R. Tolkien:- @ S c o t s h o m e . c o m
All that is gold does not glister / Not all who wander are lost
Message has been deleted
F Murtz
Jun 16, 2015, 6:59:38 PM6/16/15
to
annode
Rod Speed
Jun 16, 2015, 7:09:55 PM6/16/15
to
news:5580aa56$0$39527$c3e8da3$f017...@news.astraweb.com...
I know both of mine are copper lined steel because I chose
them both and considered the alternatives when I did.
them both and considered the alternatives when I did.
John Chance
Jun 16, 2015, 7:23:17 PM6/16/15
to
"Tim Streater" <timst...@greenbee.net> wrote in message
news:160620152251381475%timst...@greenbee.net...
> In article <nq209...@way.freeola.net>, Windmill
> <spam-n...@Freeola.net.invalid> wrote:
>
>>"Dave Plowman (News)" <da...@davenoise.co.uk> writes:
>>
>>>In article <c3a988af-0c9d-466d...@googlegroups.com>,
>>> harry <harry...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>> On Monday, June 15, 2015 at 1:17:35 PM UTC+1, fred wrote:
>>>> > We are having to replace a copper hot water cylinder for the second
>>>> > time in 25 years. Does this sound normal. Anyway what makes them
>>>> > fail.
>>>> > We are in a soft water area.
>>
>>>> You could get a stainless steel replacement.
>>>> However,all your pipework may be similarly affected.
>>>> This is an advantage of plastic pipes over copper.
>>
>>>Under most circumstances, copper will last a lifetime plus. Too early to
>>>say if plastic will. I'd guess not.
>>
>>That has been my impression. Perhaps insurance companies stick in an
>>oar to try to improve life expectancy of copper tanks (vitally
>>important for the many flats in the UK).
>>
>>I was amazed by the short life (~10 years) of what they describe as
>>'glass-lined steel tanks' in Canadian gas heated homes.
>
> Can't remember why they are made like that in the US too,
>
>>"Dave Plowman (News)" <da...@davenoise.co.uk> writes:
>>
>>>In article <c3a988af-0c9d-466d...@googlegroups.com>,
>>> harry <harry...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>> On Monday, June 15, 2015 at 1:17:35 PM UTC+1, fred wrote:
>>>> > We are having to replace a copper hot water cylinder for the second
>>>> > time in 25 years. Does this sound normal. Anyway what makes them
>>>> > fail.
>>>> > We are in a soft water area.
>>
>>>> You could get a stainless steel replacement.
>>>> However,all your pipework may be similarly affected.
>>>> This is an advantage of plastic pipes over copper.
>>
>>>Under most circumstances, copper will last a lifetime plus. Too early to
>>>say if plastic will. I'd guess not.
>>
>>That has been my impression. Perhaps insurance companies stick in an
>>oar to try to improve life expectancy of copper tanks (vitally
>>important for the many flats in the UK).
>>
>>I was amazed by the short life (~10 years) of what they describe as
>>'glass-lined steel tanks' in Canadian gas heated homes.
>
Because it’s a lot cheaper than copper.
but what
> happens is that small bits of grit in the water scour the tank and
> eventually scour away enough of the glass that the steel is exposed to
> the hot water. It then rusts in shortish order and the tank fails.
No grit in my water.
> At least, that's what I was told when mine went. Unless the gas burners
> eventually burn through the bottom of the steel tank.
harry
Jun 17, 2015, 1:59:25 AM6/17/15
to
As the water is heated, it is driven out.
So corrosion takes place at the cold entry point.
It's not a galvanic thing, that only happens where there are dissimilar metals.
The sacrificial anode only protects against galvanic reactions.
All rain water is acid (dissolved CO2).
In some places the acidity is corrected when the water runs through limestone or chalk.
In others not.
Peaty areas are the worst.
harry
Jun 17, 2015, 2:02:53 AM6/17/15
to
On Tuesday, June 16, 2015 at 10:51:43 PM UTC+1, Tim Streater wrote:
> In article <nq209...@way.freeola.net>, Windmill
> <spam-n...@Freeola.net.invalid> wrote:
>
> In article <nq209...@way.freeola.net>, Windmill
> <spam-n...@Freeola.net.invalid> wrote:
>
> >"Dave Plowman (News)" <da...@davenoise.co.uk> writes:
> >
> >>In article <c3a988af-0c9d-466d...@googlegroups.com>,
> >> harry <harry...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> >>> On Monday, June 15, 2015 at 1:17:35 PM UTC+1, fred wrote:
> >>> > We are having to replace a copper hot water cylinder for the second
> >>> > time in 25 years. Does this sound normal. Anyway what makes them fail.
> >>> > We are in a soft water area.
> >
> >>> You could get a stainless steel replacement.
> >>> However,all your pipework may be similarly affected.
> >>> This is an advantage of plastic pipes over copper.
> >
> >>Under most circumstances, copper will last a lifetime plus. Too early to
> >>say if plastic will. I'd guess not.
> >
> >That has been my impression. Perhaps insurance companies stick in an
> >oar to try to improve life expectancy of copper tanks (vitally
> >important for the many flats in the UK).
> >
> >I was amazed by the short life (~10 years) of what they describe as
> >'glass-lined steel tanks' in Canadian gas heated homes.
>
> Can't remember why they are made like that in the US too, but what
> >
> >>In article <c3a988af-0c9d-466d...@googlegroups.com>,
> >> harry <harry...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> >>> On Monday, June 15, 2015 at 1:17:35 PM UTC+1, fred wrote:
> >>> > We are having to replace a copper hot water cylinder for the second
> >>> > time in 25 years. Does this sound normal. Anyway what makes them fail.
> >>> > We are in a soft water area.
> >
> >>> You could get a stainless steel replacement.
> >>> However,all your pipework may be similarly affected.
> >>> This is an advantage of plastic pipes over copper.
> >
> >>Under most circumstances, copper will last a lifetime plus. Too early to
> >>say if plastic will. I'd guess not.
> >
> >That has been my impression. Perhaps insurance companies stick in an
> >oar to try to improve life expectancy of copper tanks (vitally
> >important for the many flats in the UK).
> >
> >I was amazed by the short life (~10 years) of what they describe as
> >'glass-lined steel tanks' in Canadian gas heated homes.
>
> happens is that small bits of grit in the water scour the tank and
> eventually scour away enough of the glass that the steel is exposed to
> the hot water. It then rusts in shortish order and the tank fails.
>
> eventually scour away enough of the glass that the steel is exposed to
> the hot water. It then rusts in shortish order and the tank fails.
>
> At least, that's what I was told when mine went. Unless the gas burners
> eventually burn through the bottom of the steel tank.
BS.
> eventually burn through the bottom of the steel tank.
Expansion and contraction of the steel eventually cracks the glass.
Then is rusts through.
The rusting is somewhat delayed because air is driven from the water by heating.
Rod Speed
Jun 17, 2015, 2:24:57 AM6/17/15
to
"harry" <harry...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:56c6fc31-4891-45ac...@googlegroups.com...
> On Tuesday, June 16, 2015 at 9:39:56 AM UTC+1, CB wrote:
>> On 15/06/2015 13:17, fred wrote:
>> > We are having to replace a copper hot water cylinder for the second
>> > time in 25 years. Does this sound normal. Anyway what makes them fail.
>> > We are in a soft water area.
>> >
>> I have lived in this house since it was built (1987). Just about every
>> house in the close had its hot water tank (all unpressurized) replaced
>> when the houses were 12-15 years old. Although this of course may have
>> been a faulty batch. We are now approaching the end of the second life
>> period so I hope that the replacement I fitted was of higher quality.
>>
>> They all failed at the cold water entry point so I don't know if this
>> was an area subject to condensation caused corrosion or a manufacturing
>> fault.
> The corrosion is caused by dissolved CO2.
Must be why sacrificial anodes work.
>> On 15/06/2015 13:17, fred wrote:
>> > We are having to replace a copper hot water cylinder for the second
>> > time in 25 years. Does this sound normal. Anyway what makes them fail.
>> > We are in a soft water area.
>> >
>> I have lived in this house since it was built (1987). Just about every
>> house in the close had its hot water tank (all unpressurized) replaced
>> when the houses were 12-15 years old. Although this of course may have
>> been a faulty batch. We are now approaching the end of the second life
>> period so I hope that the replacement I fitted was of higher quality.
>>
>> They all failed at the cold water entry point so I don't know if this
>> was an area subject to condensation caused corrosion or a manufacturing
>> fault.
> The corrosion is caused by dissolved CO2.
> As the water is heated, it is driven out.
> So corrosion takes place at the cold entry point.
> It's not a galvanic thing, that only happens where there are dissimilar
> metals.
> The sacrificial anode only protects against galvanic reactions.
> All rain water is acid (dissolved CO2).
Message has been deleted
whisky-dave
Jun 17, 2015, 6:22:34 AM6/17/15
to
On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 09:44:18 UTC+1, Tim Streater wrote:
> In article <a05c844a-470e-47a0...@googlegroups.com>,
> Expansion and contraction? What expansion and contraction? The thing is
> permanently on, so there is permanent hot water. No significant
> temperature changes.
well my copper direct heated cylinder has been in use 28 years,
been thinking of replacing it for a while now.
Mine changes in temperature, as I use the hot water in the cyclinder it's replaced by cold water comping from teh tank. At night E7 heats teh water from about 18C to about 65-70C. There's evenm a dent in to top, not sure what causde it but it's not leaked.
> In article <a05c844a-470e-47a0...@googlegroups.com>,
> permanently on, so there is permanent hot water. No significant
> temperature changes.
well my copper direct heated cylinder has been in use 28 years,
been thinking of replacing it for a while now.
Mine changes in temperature, as I use the hot water in the cyclinder it's replaced by cold water comping from teh tank. At night E7 heats teh water from about 18C to about 65-70C. There's evenm a dent in to top, not sure what causde it but it's not leaked.
thescullster
Jun 17, 2015, 11:39:37 AM6/17/15
to
On 15/06/2015 13:17, fred wrote:
> We are having to replace a copper hot water cylinder for the second time in 25 years. Does this sound normal. Anyway what makes them fail. We are in a soft water area.
>
I had one fail after only a few years (maybe 6).
>
When I was tying up the ball float in the cold water tank in the loft, I
noticed something lurking on the bottom. Turned out to be a pair of
very corroded steel pipe grips.
Guess these will have been the cause of the short lived anode's demise.
Phil
John Smith
Nov 7, 2020, 10:03:29 AM11/7/20
to
John Smith
Nov 7, 2020, 10:15:50 AM11/7/20
to
On Wednesday, June 17, 2015 at 4:39:37 PM UTC+1, thescullster wrote:
John Smith
Nov 7, 2020, 10:19:09 AM11/7/20
to
Jack Harry Teesdale
Nov 7, 2020, 10:30:06 AM11/7/20
to
However it depends on the cause of the failure, which you seem to have
identified in this case.
As long as there is no inherent manufacturing defect, in a soft water
area you could expect 15 to 20 years or more, but que sera, sera.
jon
Nov 8, 2020, 12:34:03 AM11/8/20
to
place 27 years.
Brian Gaff (Sofa)
Nov 8, 2020, 3:09:54 AM11/8/20
to
2015?
Anyway, I'd expect30 years pluss assuming its not a bodgit and run one of
course!
Brian
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"John Smith" <expos...@gmail.com> wrote in message
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Anyway, I'd expect30 years pluss assuming its not a bodgit and run one of
course!
Brian
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"John Smith" <expos...@gmail.com> wrote in message
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Brian Gaff (Sofa)
Nov 8, 2020, 3:11:02 AM11/8/20
to
What is going on with these old posts?
Brian
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Brian
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"John Smith" <expos...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Unknown
Nov 8, 2020, 6:46:58 AM11/8/20
to
jon laid this down on his screen :
> My copper cylinder that delivers mains pressure hot water has been in
> place 27 years.
Open vented and my cylinder is 38 years old.
> place 27 years.
Jack Harry Teesdale
Nov 8, 2020, 8:31:07 AM11/8/20
to
Andrew
Nov 8, 2020, 9:45:22 AM11/8/20
to
On 08/11/2020 11:46, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
tank and immersion heater.
Unknown
Nov 8, 2020, 10:11:38 AM11/8/20
to
Andrew formulated on Sunday :
concerns me, wondering how much longer it might last. I have a plastic
replacement ready to fit, but it will not be an easy install. I swapped
out the small galv heating header tank a couple of years ago, for a
plastic version. The galv tank seemed good to last a few more years.
> I still have my original (for the house) 1976 open-vented
> tank and immersion heater.
I am still on my 38 year old, galv steel HW header - which rather
> tank and immersion heater.
concerns me, wondering how much longer it might last. I have a plastic
replacement ready to fit, but it will not be an easy install. I swapped
out the small galv heating header tank a couple of years ago, for a
plastic version. The galv tank seemed good to last a few more years.
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