Is Dubbin Boots Good?

[ch...@newsguy.com]

Someone has just told me applying dubbin is a bad thing for boots. Apparently it is not effective at waterproofing and shortens the life of the boots by making them too soft and rotting the stitching. Are they right? The boots I had just dubbed and then polished were 'normal' leather not suede or anything.

[Andrew Mawson]

wrote in message
news:0446ac7d-774c-45c6...@googlegroups.com...

I've used Dubbin on my boots since I was in the school Combined Cadet Force
back in 1965. I've never had any such problem and continue to do my boots
and heavy walking shoes with Dubbin.

Andrew

[Tim Watts]

Nikwax is better IME.

Apply the liquid version to fully soak in to the seams.

Then used the can version applied with the fingers to give a very
waterproof layer.

[Tim Watts]

On 25/08/14 22:29, Chris Hogg wrote:

> On Mon, 25 Aug 2014 13:50:19 -0700 (PDT), ch...@newsguy.com wrote:
>
>> Someone has just told me applying dubbin is a bad thing for boots. Apparently it is not effective at waterproofing and shortens the life of the boots by making them too soft and rotting the stitching. Are they right? The boots I had just dubbed and then polished were 'normal' leather not suede or anything.
>

> Dubbin has been used to waterproof and soften leather for centuries;
> since the Middle Ages, according to Wikipedia. Ask yourself if it
> would really have been used for so long if it did what you've been
> told? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubbin.
>
>

Perhaps they had nothing better? A long time ago I used dubbin. Then I
switched to Nikwax and found the latter better.

[0hjk]

"Tim Watts" <tw_u...@dionic.net> wrote in message
news:9snscb-...@squidward.local.dionic.net...

Better in what way ? From the web site it appears to just be for
waterproofing and doesn't attempt to prolong the life of the leather.

[Tim Watts]

On 25/08/14 23:22, 0hjk wrote:

>> Perhaps they had nothing better? A long time ago I used dubbin. Then I
>> switched to Nikwax and found the latter better.
>
> Better in what way ? From the web site it appears to just be for
> waterproofing and doesn't attempt to prolong the life of the leather.

It seems to soak in better and be less "grubby" and sticky afterwards.

I usually find the soles are gone before I worry too much about the
uppers. OK - in the old days, one would get a boot resoled. These days -
not really worth it.

[Clive George]

200 quid pair of boots, 80 quid for a decent resole. It's worth it.

[0hjk]

"Clive George" <cl...@xxxx-x.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:86GdncHdibbse2bO...@brightview.co.uk...

Sure, but how many buy 200 quid pairs of boots ?

[Allan]

+1

[Tim Watts]

That resole cost is more than I ever pay for boots :)

[Scion]

Tim Watts put finger to keyboard:

I remember my Mum Nikwaxing things in preparation for camping. She had to
admit, she hadn't thought it through properly, when we tried to use a tea
towel for drying up...

[Andrew]

Some of us have to spend a fortune on decent shoes and boots (and look
after them) because the way we walk wears out the cheap crap in no time.
The old-school shoe repairer I used to go to, sold a type of dubbin made
by a German company called Woly. Damn good stuff, but no-one sells it
now, so instead I use a water based liquid wax made by Nikwax which
seems pretty good.

I can get through a pair of �25 'trainers' in a month and they are not
repairable, hence binned.

The problem with me is that my left foot seems to tilt inwards causing
the heel to wear unevenly. Once the wear has started my ankle tilts in
even more so it gets progressively worse.

The only shoes I can wear and get a decent life out of, are the ones
with commando soles that K shoes and Clarks used to sell (used to be
known as itshide ??).

When Clarks had an internal family feud in 1995, a younger family group
took over and threw out the tradition of good shoes for everyone, in
favour of 'fashion. In the process they sacked all their UK shoe makers
and moved production offshore. I bought three pairs of UK-made K shoes
with commando soles in about 1996 in their sale for �29 each. Today
similar replacements are about �260 a pair and finding someone to reheel
and sole them is getting difficult where I live.

In order to resolve the tilting ankle problem I think I need an insert
to lift up the arch ?. Sadly Boots and Superdrug no longer sell these.
Has any else bought arch supports recently ?.

I have even tried safety boots and shoes to get a better shoe life (and
because I need a wide fitting, so cannot wear Doc Martins which only go
up to a 5 width fitting). Some are OK, some just have soft soles with
internal hollows in the heels that wear away in no time. Does anyone
recommend a make that lasts well when walking a lot on tarmac and
concrete ?.

I think the key phrase for good wear performance is 'carbon rubber
sole', but mention that to your typical sales assistant and they haven't
a clue what you mean.

Somewhere I read that Timberland gave a lifetime guarantee on their
shoes. Has anyone else heard of this and tried to claim on it ?

Andrew

[Mike Barnes]

Andrew wrote:
> In order to resolve the tilting ankle problem I think I need an insert
> to lift up the arch ?. Sadly Boots and Superdrug no longer sell these.
> Has any else bought arch supports recently ?.

Sorry to hear that Boots no longer do them because mine have lasted well
but probably won't last for ever.

If you go to a sports physiotherapist they will examine your gait
(perhaps using a video camera and a treadmill) and supply custom
orthotic footbeds. Not cheap, but SWMBO reckons they're well worth it.

--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England

[stuart noble]

On 26/08/2014 11:45, Chris Hogg wrote:

> On Tue, 26 Aug 2014 11:16:00 +0100, Andrew
> <andrew9...@mybtinternet.com> wrote:
>> I think the key phrase for good wear performance is 'carbon rubber
>> sole', but mention that to your typical sales assistant and they haven't
>> a clue what you mean.
>>

> Carbon black is by far the best filler used for rubber. Car tyres are
> made with carbon-black-filled rubber. Nothing else gives the wear
> resistance that carbon black does. There are many alternative rubber
> fillers, but none match carbon black for performance.
>

Aka soot, so I can't imagine what the cheaper alternatives might be.
That said, there are many different types depending on what you have
burnt in the first place, and various degrees of fineness. Also, I
suppose, black is not the colour of choice for most shoe makers

[Tim Watts]

On 26/08/14 11:16, Andrew wrote:

> When Clarks had an internal family feud in 1995, a younger family group
> took over and threw out the tradition of good shoes for everyone, in
> favour of 'fashion. In the process they sacked all their UK shoe makers
> and moved production offshore. I bought three pairs of UK-made K shoes
> with commando soles in about 1996 in their sale for �29 each. Today
> similar replacements are about �260 a pair and finding someone to reheel
> and sole them is getting difficult where I live.

That explains why they are all crap now...

[Clive George]

The same who would buy a decent long lasting pair of boots in the old days?

[Clive George]

On 26/08/2014 11:16, Andrew wrote:
> The problem with me is that my left foot seems to tilt inwards causing
> the heel to wear unevenly. Once the wear has started my ankle tilts in
> even more so it gets progressively worse.

Segs?

[Clive George]

On 26/08/2014 11:45, Chris Hogg wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Aug 2014 11:16:00 +0100, Andrew
> <andrew9...@mybtinternet.com> wrote:

>> I think the key phrase for good wear performance is 'carbon rubber
>> sole', but mention that to your typical sales assistant and they haven't
>> a clue what you mean.
>>

> Carbon black is by far the best filler used for rubber. Car tyres are
> made with carbon-black-filled rubber. Nothing else gives the wear
> resistance that carbon black does. There are many alternative rubber
> fillers, but none match carbon black for performance.

It marks floors. This is why you can get wheelchair tyres and they're
different to normal bike tyres - the latter use carbon black.

Aren't some car tyres now using a silicon based filler?

[Richard]

"Mike Barnes" wrote in message news:c636us...@mid.individual.net...

Or even go to your GP and get a referral. My daughter, admittedly when she
was much younger, had problems with foot pain. Specialist prescribed
orthotics which were custom made in the NHS. The early treatment has sorted
the problem, hopefully permanently.

[Andrew Mawson]

"Clive George" wrote in message
news:0sCdnay6N4VeLGHO...@brightview.co.uk...

Be bally hard if filed with silicon !

May be silicone? - oh no that's ever expanding boobs - silly me !

Andrew

[RobertL]

On Monday, 25 August 2014 21:50:19 UTC+1, ch...@newsguy.com wrote:
> Someone has just told me applying dubbin is a bad thing for boots. Apparently it is not effective at waterproofing and shortens the life of the boots by making them too soft and rotting the stitching. Are they right? The boots I had just dubbed and then polished were 'normal' leather not suede or anything.

I was told, 40 years ago, that dubbin was bad because it contained acids. The advice then was to use vaseline.

I expect things have chganged since then.

Robert

[Clive George]

I did carefully say silicon based, which includes silicone and other
compounds :-). I actually think it's silica, but that's in addition to
the carbon black.

[polygonum]

On 26/08/2014 11:16, Andrew wrote:

> In order to resolve the tilting ankle problem I think I need an insert
> to lift up the arch ?. Sadly Boots and Superdrug no longer sell these.
> Has any else bought arch supports recently ?.
>

You could try:

http://www.algeos.com

And their retail arm:

http://www.foothealthcare.com/

Huge range of foot-related products. Friendly and helpful in my
experience. (I don't know anything about arch supports - I have
near-enough the opposite problem. Any form of arch support rapidly
becomes incredibly uncomfortable, eventually resulting in crippling pain.)

Rod

> I have even tried safety boots and shoes to get a better shoe life (and
> because I need a wide fitting, so cannot wear Doc Martins which only go
> up to a 5 width fitting). Some are OK, some just have soft soles with
> internal hollows in the heels that wear away in no time. Does anyone
> recommend a make that lasts well when walking a lot on tarmac and
> concrete ?.
>

I too need a wide fitting - G+. Together with a high instep, no high
street retailer can supply footwear for me.

> I think the key phrase for good wear performance is 'carbon rubber
> sole', but mention that to your typical sales assistant and they haven't
> a clue what you mean.
>
> Somewhere I read that Timberland gave a lifetime guarantee on their
> shoes. Has anyone else heard of this and tried to claim on it ?
>

One pair of Timberland shoes I tried did eventually become almost
comfortable. They were based on a moccasin design. However, the soles
wore out and no repairer would take them on.

My second attempt was a pair of Timberland boots. The soles of them
simply cracked and fell apart long before the uppers had any appreciable
wear. Extremely disappointing.

If I had thought there was a guarantee, I would have claimed!

--
Rod

[Mike Barnes]

My last two pairs of boots have proved completely waterproof (in some
pretty testing conditions) without any treatment at all. FWIW they've
been Gore-Tex lined. It's true that surface treatment would have
softened the leather and perhaps delayed the cracking on the top surface
where the boot bends, but in every case the soles have worn out and/or
become detached long before the cracking has caused any practical
problems. Nowadays I don't even bother cleaning them unless I'm packing
them for a flight.

The previous two pairs were cleaned and treated with Scarpa HS12 cream
once or twice a year, which made them look nice, but I'm not convinced
it made any practical difference.

[0hjk]

"Tim Watts" <tw_u...@dionic.net> wrote in message

news:9p0ucb-...@squidward.local.dionic.net...

Yeah, me too.

The ones I currently wear all the time in the winter and when walking
for exercise in the summer do cost about the 60 quid new but I got
them unused at a garage sale for just 5 quid, best boots I have ever had.

[djc]

On 26/08/14 11:16, Andrew wrote:

> I have even tried safety boots and shoes to get a better shoe life (and
> because I need a wide fitting, so cannot wear Doc Martins which only go
> up to a 5 width fitting). Some are OK, some just have soft soles with
> internal hollows in the heels that wear away in no time. Does anyone
> recommend a make that lasts well when walking a lot on tarmac and
> concrete ?.

Buckler are solidly made. <http://www.bucklerboots.com/products.php>

>
> I think the key phrase for good wear performance is 'carbon rubber
> sole', but mention that to your typical sales assistant and they haven't
> a clue what you mean.
>
> Somewhere I read that Timberland gave a lifetime guarantee on their
> shoes. Has anyone else heard of this and tried to claim on it ?

About 30 years ago maybe, these days they seem to be made in the far
east. Having looked at both I think Timberland must be made in the same
factory as Orca bay which are better value <http://www.orcabay.co.uk/>



>
> Andrew
>
>
>


--
djc

[Johny B Good]

On Mon, 25 Aug 2014 22:29:22 +0100, Chris Hogg <m...@privacy.net> wrote:

>On Mon, 25 Aug 2014 13:50:19 -0700 (PDT), ch...@newsguy.com wrote:
>
>>Someone has just told me applying dubbin is a bad thing for boots. Apparently it is not effective at waterproofing and shortens the life of the boots by making them too soft and rotting the stitching. Are they right? The boots I had just dubbed and then polished were 'normal' leather not suede or anything.
>

>Dubbin has been used to waterproof and soften leather for centuries;
>since the Middle Ages, according to Wikipedia. Ask yourself if it
>would really have been used for so long if it did what you've been
>told? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubbin.

There's a link on that page which may explain the claim regarding the
rotting of the stitching.

<http://www.johan-potgieter.com/dubbin.shtml>

Which mentions how the risk can be avoided when using dubbin.
--
J B Good

[Rick Hughes]

On 25/08/2014 21:50, ch...@newsguy.com wrote:
> Someone has just told me applying dubbin is a bad thing for boots. Apparently it is not effective at waterproofing and shortens the life of the boots by making them too soft and rotting the stitching. Are they right? The boots I had just dubbed and then polished were 'normal' leather not suede or anything.
>

Dubbin was good until about 30 yrs ago ... far better waterproofing
products on the market.
Problem with dubbin is it does not dry so dust & crap sticks to it ...
and it softens the leather.
Once you had a good pair of boots broken in ... you don't want to keep
softening the leather ... as it loses support.

Mink Oil is similar.

NikWax is what I use, and is very good .... dry boots thoroughly &
slowly, then put them in warm place .. apply Nikwax by hand and really
work it into joint & seams

The warmth of hands will help penetration .... I then stick them in
airing cipboard overnight so it all soaks in.,

If you are in a rush you can gently warm it with hair drier ... you will
see it suck right into dry leather.

The water based paint of product by same manufacturer is useless.



--
UK SelfBuild: http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/UK_Selfbuild/

[Rick Hughes]

On 25/08/2014 22:29, Chris Hogg wrote:

> On Mon, 25 Aug 2014 13:50:19 -0700 (PDT), ch...@newsguy.com wrote:
>
>> Someone has just told me applying dubbin is a bad thing for boots. Apparently it is not effective at waterproofing and shortens the life of the boots by making them too soft and rotting the stitching. Are they right? The boots I had just dubbed and then polished were 'normal' leather not suede or anything.
>

> Dubbin has been used to waterproof and soften leather for centuries;
> since the Middle Ages, according to Wikipedia. Ask yourself if it
> would really have been used for so long if it did what you've been
> told? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubbin.
>

Washing without soap was considered good for centuries as well.
Things get formulated that are better.

[Rick Hughes]

On 26/08/2014 11:16, Andrew wrote:


>

> In order to resolve the tilting ankle problem I think I need an insert
> to lift up the arch ?. Sadly Boots and Superdrug no longer sell these.
> Has any else bought arch supports recently ?.
>

You can get these on-line, or better still get your Doc to send you to
Podiatrist they will work out correct insole and supply on NHS


I always use Sorbothane insoles in my boots - great shock absorbing on
the heel & sole.

[polygonum]

On 26/08/2014 23:11, Johny B Good wrote:
> Which mentions how the risk can be avoided when using dubbin.

But makes this rather odd claim: "the dust will then rot the stitching."
No explanation as to why dust would rot stitching. Nor clarity over
whether that would apply to synthetic as well as natural threads.

--
Rod

[Tim Watts]

Talking of which, anyone use saddle soap?

[Rod Speed]

"Johny B Good" <johnny...@invalid.ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:mc1qv99sk5tidsfp8...@4ax.com...

I don't buy the claim that dust rots the stitching.

My boots get plenty of dust because of the very dry
situation I walk in almost all the time and don't get
any stitching rot and don't use dubbin at all.

[Rod Speed]

"polygonum" <rmoud...@vrod.co.uk> wrote in message
news:c66la1...@mid.individual.net...

> On 26/08/2014 23:11, Johny B Good wrote:
>> Which mentions how the risk can be avoided when using dubbin.
>
> But makes this rather odd claim: "the dust will then rot the stitching."
> No explanation as to why dust would rot stitching.

Yeah, I had the same reaction. The only thing I can think of is that
maybe it might see the dirt act like sand and the movement actually
wears thru the stitching, but that is hard to believe with the wax
involved as well.

> Nor clarity over whether that would apply to synthetic as well as natural
> threads.

Yeah, I can see that it might conceivably rot
natural stitching, nothing to do with dust.

All very poorly thought thru IMO.

[newshound]

Yes, on saddles and other horse tack. Cleans, softens, and makes them
look nice. Not particularly water repellent, might use it on "show"
boots but certainly not walking ones.