sockets mounted in base units
sm_jamieson
seems.
Which of the following is workable / the best:
1. Actually mounted on the wall behind with a cut-out in the back
panel (may have to mount socket on a plinth to make it span the
service void behind, looks a bit of a bodge).
2. Mount a surface box inside the cupboard (sticks out into cupboard,
back panel could be flimsy).
3. Mount a plasterboard-style hollow wall box into the back panel of
the base unit (back panel could be flimsy)
Simon.
Tabby
Those all work fine. Flimsiness can be countered reasonably well by
mounting it near the edge of the back, if you go that route.
NT
Tim Watts
> OK, sockets mounted in kitchen base units is an accepted technique it
> seems.
> Which of the following is workable / the best:
> 1. Actually mounted on the wall behind with a cut-out in the back
> panel (may have to mount socket on a plinth to make it span the
> service void behind, looks a bit of a bodge).
This is the corect way.
> 2. Mount a surface box inside the cupboard (sticks out into cupboard,
> back panel could be flimsy).
> 3. Mount a plasterboard-style hollow wall box into the back panel of
> the base unit (back panel could be flimsy)
No and no. My interpretation is that such cupboards do not count as
"building fabric" for the purposes of mounting fixed electrical accessories
or wiring on.
Although some may argue the other way as striplights are often mounted on
wall units and hard wired in - though at least the link-light version of
those is unpluggable.
Cheers
Tim
--
Tim Watts
Bob Eager
> sm_jamieson wrote:
>
>> OK, sockets mounted in kitchen base units is an accepted technique it
>> seems.
>> Which of the following is workable / the best: 1. Actually mounted on
>> the wall behind with a cut-out in the back panel (may have to mount
>> socket on a plinth to make it span the service void behind, looks a bit
>> of a bodge).
>
> This is the corect way.
I just used a very deep surface box to bring the socket forward.
--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor
stuart noble
My cooker socket is on the side panel of the carcass. The sparks who
fitted it seemed to think it was ok
ARWadsworth
That's not what B&Q say
http://s428.photobucket.com/albums/qq6/adamko2020/?action=view¤t=img069.jpg
Although I mount the sockets on the side wall of the cupboard right at the
back (unless otherwise instructed by a customer)
--
Adam
sm_jamieson
wrote:
> Tim Watts <t...@dionic.net> wrote:
> > sm_jamieson wrote:
>
> >> OK, sockets mounted in kitchen base units is an accepted technique it
> >> seems.
> >> Which of the following is workable / the best:
> >> 1. Actually mounted on the wall behind with a cut-out in the back
> >> panel (may have to mount socket on a plinth to make it span the
> >> service void behind, looks a bit of a bodge).
>
> > This is the corect way.
>
> >> 2. Mount a surface box inside the cupboard (sticks out into cupboard,
> >> back panel could be flimsy).
> >> 3. Mount a plasterboard-style hollow wall box into the back panel of
> >> the base unit (back panel could be flimsy)
>
> > No and no. My interpretation is that such cupboards do not count as
> > "building fabric" for the purposes of mounting fixed electrical
> > accessories or wiring on.
>
> > Although some may argue the other way as striplights are often
> > mounted on wall units and hard wired in - though at least the
> > link-light version of those is unpluggable.
>
> That's not what B&Q say
Who is that notice addressed to ?
I guess its the accessibility rules, to avoid the sockets being buried
behind pans etc.
I'd agree with mounting them near the top though, for that same
reason.
Simon.
fred
<adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> writes
guaranteed to be solid in a B&Q cab ;-)
--
fred
FIVE TV's superbright logo - not the DOG's, it's bollocks
Tim Watts
I knew it would be a debateable point :)
I'd rather fix to the lower cupboards than the uppers as the lowers are
usually more permanantly/solidly fixed - though my personal preference is
sockets on the wall with a cutout in any back panel. Then again my machines
are not integrated types so I won't have a back panel in most places where
sockets are needed.
ARWadsworth
I have seen it where the first time someone trys to use the socket the back
of the cupboard falls off!
--
Adam
ARWadsworth
And you are allowed to buy
<http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Domestic_Index/Under_Worktop_Sockets/index.html>
> I'd rather fix to the lower cupboards than the uppers as the lowers
> are usually more permanantly/solidly fixed - though my personal
> preference is sockets on the wall with a cutout in any back panel.
> Then again my machines are not integrated types so I won't have a
> back panel in most places where sockets are needed.
>
There really ought to be a clear guidance of the use of sockets in cupboards
by the IET.
--
Adam
sm_jamieson
> ARWadsworth wrote:
> > Tim Watts <t...@dionic.net> wrote:
> >> sm_jamieson wrote:
>
> >>> OK, sockets mounted in kitchen base units is an accepted technique it
> >>> seems.
> >>> Which of the following is workable / the best:
> >>> 1. Actually mounted on the wall behind with a cut-out in the back
> >>> panel (may have to mount socket on a plinth to make it span the
> >>> service void behind, looks a bit of a bodge).
>
> >> This is the corect way.
>
> >>> 2. Mount a surface box inside the cupboard (sticks out into cupboard,
> >>> back panel could be flimsy).
> >>> 3. Mount a plasterboard-style hollow wall box into the back panel of
> >>> the base unit (back panel could be flimsy)
>
> >> No and no. My interpretation is that such cupboards do not count as
> >> "building fabric" for the purposes of mounting fixed electrical
> >> accessories or wiring on.
>
> >> Although some may argue the other way as striplights are often
> >> mounted on wall units and hard wired in - though at least the
> >> link-light version of those is unpluggable.
>
> > That's not what B&Q say
>
>
>
>
> > Although I mount the sockets on the side wall of the cupboard right at the
> > back (unless otherwise instructed by a customer)
>
> I knew it would be a debateable point :)
>
> I'd rather fix to the lower cupboards than the uppers as the lowers are
> usually more permanantly/solidly fixed - though my personal preference is
> sockets on the wall with a cutout in any back panel. Then again my machines
> are not integrated types so I won't have a back panel in most places where
> sockets are needed.
>
and have the cable and plug going through a hole. I'll try to avoid
stuff (plumbing / electrics) behind e.g. washing machines, since they
need to be pushed back quiet far. I've seen many washing machines
sticking out quite a bit for presumably this reason.
Simon.
Bolted
> > sm_jamieson wrote:
>
> >> OK, sockets mounted in kitchen base units is an accepted technique it
> >> seems.
> >> Which of the following is workable / the best:
> >> 1. Actually mounted on the wall behind with a cut-out in the back
> >> panel (may have to mount socket on a plinth to make it span the
> >> service void behind, looks a bit of a bodge).
>
> > This is the corect way.
>
> >> 2. Mount a surface box inside the cupboard (sticks out into cupboard,
> >> back panel could be flimsy).
> >> 3. Mount a plasterboard-style hollow wall box into the back panel of
> >> the base unit (back panel could be flimsy)
>
> > No and no. My interpretation is that such cupboards do not count as
> > "building fabric" for the purposes of mounting fixed electrical
> > accessories or wiring on.
>
> > Although some may argue the other way as striplights are often
> > mounted on wall units and hard wired in - though at least the
> > link-light version of those is unpluggable.
>
> That's not what B&Q say
>
Wow, that's fugly.
Presumably at least part of the reason for side mounting is because
their kitchens have very flimsy backs rather than 18mm (and it's
quicker and easier than messing about with non-surface mount stuff on
plinths etc).
I do mine the metal backbox on plinth on wall way, based on the 'must
be attached to building fabric' rule oft-quoted on here.
tim....
"fred" <n...@for.mail> wrote in message news:fR23I5GeEYpNFwFH@y.z...
There may be some high quality ones that are different, but I would have
thought that not having a solid back board was pretty normal
tim
tim....
"ARWadsworth" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:io42ir$o71$1...@dont-email.me...
You're allowed to buy all sorts of things that you're not allowed to use :-(
tim
ARWadsworth
Did you not spot fred's smiley?
--
Adam
Robin
>
> There really ought to be a clear guidance of the use of sockets in
> cupboards by the IET.
Someone tried to get such guidance a while back but the IET declined to
give it. See
http://www.kitchensfitted.co.uk/KitchenForum/building-regs-part-p-t253-15.html
I have been wasting the odd few minutes looking for further guidance on
this issue about kitchen fixtures since it was raised a few days ago.
The best I've found is (as in that link) that it is "good practice" to
fix to the fabric of the building but that fixing to kitchen worktops,
carcases etc is not against the regs. Which I think is what you've
said.
--
Robin
PM may be sent to rbw0{at}hotmail{dot}com
sm_jamieson
I would have been inclinded to use the surface mount boxes on a plinth
(white plastic ones), but I guess why not use a metal back box, since
it will not be visible.
Simon.
Bolted
Surface mount boxes are bigger so the socket plates do not overhang.
So, if used recessed, show the raggedy edges on the hole.
So stopping a metal backbox a mm or so short of the face of the back
is neater for a flush socketplate.
That was my rationale anyway.
Andrew Gabriel
"ARWadsworth" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> writes:
>
> There really ought to be a clear guidance of the use of sockets in cupboards
> by the IET.
There's a recommendation (I think from NICEIC) not to do it, but it's
not against the wiring regs. I guess it depends if you think your
wiring will last longer than your kitchen. In practice, most kitchens
are rewired when the kitchen units are changed, so the units can be
considered as permanent as the wiring.
For IKEA cupboards with backs flush to the wall, you just fit a standard
flush wall socket and cutout the rear panel. I usually do it as a close
fit to the back box, and refit the socket flush inside the cupboard, so
the rear cutout is invisible behind the socket plate.
I have one behind every floor standing cupboard, in case it't ever
replaced by some appliance. In most cases, I feed the appliance plug into
the adjacent cupboard's socket, so it can be accessed without having to
move the appliance.
For sockets under the sink, they are in surface mount waterproof
enclosures so that a spill or leak into the cupboard is not
electrically unsafe.
--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
jgharston
mount it on the wall and use a floor unit without a back
panel.
JGH
John Rumm
I usually stick in a 5A socket for the lights just above the top of the
units. That makes the under unit lighting not part of the fixed
installation, and also lets you test up to the socket at a much earlier
stage.
--
Cheers,
John.
/=================================================================\
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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/
John Rumm
Indeed - although its usually harder to get the plumbing slim enough
rather than the electrics.
One area where the "mount on the fabric of the building" argument fails
is when you have either an island or a long "return" of worktop. For
example we have a return section that has a double corner cupboard, then
a set of drawers, and then a built in under worktop fridge. Hence the
socket has to be in the adjacent drawer unit at the back since there is
now way to easily get back to a real wall.
ARWadsworth
>> There really ought to be a clear guidance of the use of sockets in
>> cupboards by the IET.
>
> Someone tried to get such guidance a while back but the IET declined
> to give it.
Which is odd as you would think that it is part or their job:-)
>The best I've found is (as in that link) that it is "good
> practice" to fix to the fabric of the building but that fixing to
> kitchen worktops, carcases etc is not against the regs. Which I
> think is what you've said.
The IEE really needs to think about the problems that an electrician is
faced with when wiring a kitchen. The customer tells you what they want but
have no practical idea on how to do it (the same applies to architects). It
is all very well saying "feed a single socket from a FCU for the washing
machine" and actually finding out that the socket stops the washer being
pushed back flush with the worktop. Add to that the number of people who are
paying lots of money for splashbacks and do not want FCUs on the wall above
the worktop. There cannot be a "standard" as customers want different things
and as long as the work is safe I do not see why a socket cannot be in a
kitchen cupboard (but not under the washing machine plumbing connectors)
--
Adam