Using the gas cooker to heat the house...
AL_z
I'm in dire straits, financially, having just spent every penny I own on a
house, and I am unable to work, due to a long-term illness. The house has
no central heating. However, it does have a gas supply. I'm wondering how I
can keep the house warm (cheaply) during the coming winter. If I install a
gas cooker, I imagine this would produce enough heat to warm the house to
some extent. This would be heck of a lot cheaper than installing central
heating, and I think it would be more efficient, because all of the heat
produced will be going into the house, (rather than some going out through
the flue, as in the case of gas central heating). But would doing this
present a health danger, due to the carbon monoxide and other poisonous
gasses going into the house's breathable air space? I know that free-
standing calor gas heaters are commonplace, and perfectly legal, so perhaps
using a gas cooker to do the same thing is basically no different. What do
you think?
Thanks...
Al
ARWadsworth
I have come down to a very nice warm kitchen several times when the
girlfriend has left the oven on (door closed). I am not sure that I could
heat all the house up using just the cooker though.
How old is your house? Is there a fireplace you could use for this coming
winter for extra heat?
Cheers
--
Adam
andrew
> I know that free-
> standing calor gas heaters are commonplace, and perfectly legal, so
> perhaps using a gas cooker to do the same thing is basically no different.
> What do you think?
Isn't this to do with the burner size being low enough that the natural air
changes can cope? Central heating boiler nowadays doesn't impinge on
inside atmosphere as the balanced flue seals it from the living space.
Anyway I have a fried who does just as you suggest but keeps a dehumidifier
in the room to counter extra condensation. I never visit him in winter.
AJH
Tabby
It does work. But...
You've got a naked flame that things can fall onto
You've got no protection against the flame blowing out and consequent
major explosion
No protection against accumulated muck causing a mixture change and
producing CO
It burns up lots of oxygen, and you've got no monitoring or protection
of that either.
Wall mounted gas heaters that simply dumped the exhaust into the
interior air were once in use, and still are in some places. But yes,
there are some safety issues that make them no longer fitted.
If you're brassic you might look at burning wood scraps. You can get
those free as pallets from various places, or as offcuts from timber
sellers. If you must spend money on heat I'd also loook seriously at
diverting some of it to insulation, it can make a big difference and
pay back fast. Free insulation also pays back fast.
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Insulation
NT
Nitro®
"AL_z" <fgdf...@fghfghfg.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9DE36845...@130.133.4.11...
I have 2 thermostatic controlled electric heaters and a portable
oil filled heater, if you are local to TF3 you are more than welcome
to them.
--
The man who smiles when things go wrong
has thought of someone to blame it on.
Djornsk
The obvious first thing would be to check the loft insulation because
that is as cheap as chips to put right and can make a huge difference.
Have you considered balanced flue gas convector heaters? Just one in the
hall would be much better and safer than using a cooker.
j
Robin
> You've got a naked flame that things can fall onto
> You've got no protection against the flame blowing out and consequent
> major explosion
> No protection against accumulated muck causing a mixture change and
> producing CO
> It burns up lots of oxygen, and you've got no monitoring or protection
> of that either.
If the OP uses a gas oven it'll have a flame failure device so, assuming
no large turkey etc is left in the oven, is there a real risk of things
falling on the naked flame or from it blowing out?
The CO risk can be mitigated by a CO detector (~£15) beside the bed.
But it does work best if the kitchen is under the bedroom.
Another good investment, if not already owned, would be an all night
underblanket.
--
Robin
PM may be sent to rbw0{at}hotmail{dot}com
chrisj...@proemail.co.uk
> I'm in dire straits, financially, having just spent every penny I own on a
> house, and I am unable to work, due to a long-term illness. The house has
> no central heating. However, it does have a gas supply. I'm wondering how I
> can keep the house warm (cheaply) during the coming winter. If I install a
> gas cooker, I imagine this would produce enough heat to warm the house to
> some extent.
ISTR some leaflet from Nanny saying this was unsafe.
I have found that a fan heater pointed at where I'm sitting is cheaper
than central heating or a gas fire. But it does feel like an Arctic
expedition when you move elsewhere, so unsuitable if you're not a
couch potato or there's more than one of you.
Chris
MM
wrote:
I think this continual insulate-insulate-insulate story is being
overdone now. It's the pat response from any government minister when
confronted with the "global warming" question.
The fact is, you could insulate until the cows come home but in a
severe winter you're still going to need heating. Maybe a straw bale
thickness of straw around the entire house (external walls) might be
effective, but you can fill the loft with insulation and still be
freezing your bits off with the heat escaping through the windows and
walls. This constant plea for more insulation is, IMO, just a ploy to
provide more business for the insulation suppliers!
MM
Bernard Peek
> I'm in dire straits, financially, having just spent every penny I own on a
> house, and I am unable to work, due to a long-term illness.
That probably qualifies you for a Warm Front grant that will get the
house draftproofed and insulated. In some circumstances you can also get
central heating installed.
Yes you can use the gas cooker for heating but it's unlikely to be very
efficient. Kitchens are not usually the best insulated rooms in the
house. I've been in the same boat as you on occasions, I found that an
electric fan helped circulate the warm air that would otherwise pool in
the kitchen ceiling.
The house has
> no central heating. However, it does have a gas supply. I'm wondering how I
> can keep the house warm (cheaply) during the coming winter.
The low efficiency offsets the savings from using cheaper fuel. I never
thought I'd say this but have you considered electric storage heaters?
--
Bernard Peek
b...@shrdlu.com
MM
>On 29/08/2010 10:17, AL_z wrote:
>> I'm in dire straits, financially, having just spent every penny I own on a
>> house, and I am unable to work, due to a long-term illness. The house has
>> no central heating. However, it does have a gas supply. I'm wondering how I
>> can keep the house warm (cheaply) during the coming winter. If I install a
>> gas cooker, I imagine this would produce enough heat to warm the house to
>> some extent. This would be heck of a lot cheaper than installing central
>> heating, and I think it would be more efficient, because all of the heat
>> produced will be going into the house, (rather than some going out through
>> the flue, as in the case of gas central heating). But would doing this
>> present a health danger, due to the carbon monoxide and other poisonous
>> gasses going into the house's breathable air space? I know that free-
>> standing calor gas heaters are commonplace, and perfectly legal, so perhaps
>> using a gas cooker to do the same thing is basically no different. What do
>> you think?
>>
>> Thanks...
>>
>> Al
>
>The obvious first thing would be to check the loft insulation because
>that is as cheap as chips to put right and can make a huge difference.
Quantify "huge". I just think this insulation malarkey is considerably
exaggerated, like the "global warming" theory. Supposing it costs £100
to heat a house for 2 months with minimum loft insulation (120mm), how
much cheaper would it be with 240mm? I'll be if anyone did proper
tests they'd establish minimal difference. Heat disappears in numerous
ways, not least through walls and windows, plus people leaving doors
open, cat flaps, kitchen and bathroom extractor fans. We're sold this
story that all you need to do is show your house a large roll of
insulation and it'll rear back in fright.
MM
dennis@home
>> I'm in dire straits, financially, having just spent every penny I own
For a person on some benefits you can get free CH fitted.
I forget the links but you can try
Tabby
> On Sun, 29 Aug 2010 03:34:35 -0700 (PDT), Tabby <meow2...@care2.com>
Its not that hard to do the numbers, you soon see that with the right
insulation design its usually a no-brainer.
NT
js.b1
produced :-)
#1 - You will probably qualify for free loft insulation.
Despite what some say, it DOES make a big difference in that less heat
is required AND you do not get the same cold air plunging down from
the ceiling (particularly the hall). It does matter that the
installers do it right (I have just drilled the upstairs ceiling in 6
places and I am met by a howling gale in my mouth).
#2 - If you have chimney's do you have a working gas fire?
If so, you can heat a house off 1 radiant gas fire, many people right
through to their 90s do. It is not as cheap to run as GCH but it gives
you radiant warmth.
#3 - You may qualify for GCH or E7 Storage heaters under ?StayWarm?
Yes, they also install E7 heating which is low capital and relatively
low running cost - if you have both Loft AND Cavity Wall Insulation
(assuming you have a cavity wall).
Heat only the areas you need to.
#1 - Heat the living area to 19oC minimum, ideal is more like 21oC.
#2 - Heat the bedrooms to about 12oC minimum, ideal is about 14oC.
#3 - If you see black mould anywhere you need to a) increase heating
or b) increase ventilation (and increase heating a little).
#4 - Wear more clothing (look around now in the charity shops or Ebay
for "Fleece" sweatshirts and ideally jog pants which you can slip over
normal clothing.
#5 - Use a high TOG duvet
#6 - If single glazed, open the window on the upstairs bedroom for
30min every morning. That will clear the water (mop up the rest) and
get fresh air into the house.
#7 - Draught excluder is cheap and effective, letterbox brush, door
floor-level brush, windows & doors.
Alternative.
You can get Gas Wall Heaters for about £190-250. This would be ideal
if you do not have a chimney in the living room. They are 90%
efficient, they draw in cold air from *outside* and so do not create a
howling draught through the house like a roaring gas fire with class-1
chimney, they are reliable and no CO or oxygen depletion risk. They
are great as a standalone backup solution which at 1.5-2kW output is
quite capable of heating a house (48kW in a day without drawing in
freezing cold air to do it).
Do not try to heat a house by a gas oven. If you need an oven cheaply
beware buying second hand without knowing how to check things work
(especially for gas). However do not try to heat a house by it.
A colleague lived in the box-room of his house last winter having had
to put up so much money due to the "credit crunch" for a business
which was still operating fine, just high leverage (plant hire
company, "UK & Dubai PLC stopped building"). He glued 50mm celotex to
the walls for a neat foil-coloured wallpaper effect, added felt on top
of carpet underlay as it rockets the TOG rating, the loft insulation
was ok, cost very little to heat it over the winter. Heat from a
laptop was welcome, crunching the numbers so the business is now
booming (in business you often do not have to do more than survive
your competitors, because you get their business when they fail).
Djornsk
Quite unscientific I agree, but where there is no insulation to start
with I've found the benefits to be gratifyingly obvious
both in terms of the house feeling warmer and having longer periods when
the heating can be off altogether.
With our present house there was a big difference after I installed
double glazing upstairs, and a noticable difference after re-insulating
the loft to current spec although admittedly the previous material had
not been put in correctly, particularly in the spaces below the flat roofs.
I understand it is possible for people to get grants towards home
insulation, and the OP may find he qualifies if that is the case.
j
dennis@home
"MM" <kyli...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:rqlk76lijhoraudgu...@4ax.com...
Half of what was going through the roof as before.
An older house might not even have 120 mm in the loft.
It probably free for someone on benefits so it is a nobrainer.
> I'll be if anyone did proper
> tests they'd establish minimal difference. Heat disappears in numerous
> ways, not least through walls and windows, plus people leaving doors
> open, cat flaps, kitchen and bathroom extractor fans. We're sold this
> story that all you need to do is show your house a large roll of
> insulation and it'll rear back in fright.
There are lots of heat sources in a house, TV, lights, people, etc.
If your insulation is good enough you won't need any extra heating.
>
> MM
ARWadsworth
> There are lots of heat sources in a house,
Well you will not be cold with all the hot air you spout.
--
Adam
Tabby
wrote:
> There are lots of heat sources in a house, TV, lights, people, etc.
> If your insulation is good enough you won't need any extra heating.
Technically correct, but a long way from practical
NT
MM
<den...@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote:
>There are lots of heat sources in a house, TV, lights, people, etc.
>If your insulation is good enough you won't need any extra heating.
This doesn't apply to singletons. The warmth they produce is minimal.
In fact, for many the warmest place is in bed.
MM
MM
How WAS the Fringe this year?
MM
dennis@home
"MM" <kyli...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:qr5l76t3gqs7f6bhl...@4ax.com...
Yes, because of the insulation on the bed.
Now insulate the house to have the same heat transmission and it will be as
warm.
You may not be able too without adding more insulation than you want to add
but it will work.
>
> MM
AL_z
news:DYpeo.132927$S46.120437@hurricane:
> I have come down to a very nice warm kitchen several times when the
> girlfriend has left the oven on (door closed). I am not sure that I
> could heat all the house up using just the cooker though.
>
> How old is your house? Is there a fireplace you could use for this
> coming winter for extra heat?
>
> Cheers
The older part of the house (built 1850) has a fireplace in the lounge, but
unfortunately the chimney breast ends at loft-floor level. So, I imagine
I'd have to get some sort of flue liner installed, going right up and out
through the roof. Possibly not beyond my DIY capapbilities. What kind of
fuel did you have in mind?
Al
AL_z
073fc4...@i13g2000yqe.googlegroups.com:
> It does work. But...
> You've got a naked flame that things can fall onto
> You've got no protection against the flame blowing out and consequent
> major explosion
> No protection against accumulated muck causing a mixture change and
> producing CO
> It burns up lots of oxygen, and you've got no monitoring or protection
> of that either.
>
> Wall mounted gas heaters that simply dumped the exhaust into the
> interior air were once in use, and still are in some places. But yes,
> there are some safety issues that make them no longer fitted.
>
> If you're brassic you might look at burning wood scraps. You can get
> those free as pallets from various places, or as offcuts from timber
> sellers. If you must spend money on heat I'd also loook seriously at
> diverting some of it to insulation, it can make a big difference and
> pay back fast. Free insulation also pays back fast.
> http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Insulation
That's interesting idea about the free wood - thanks. Yes, I was thinking
of looking for a wood-burning stove of some kind. I have just recently
taken advantage of an offer on loft insulation and installed 170mm of rock
wool to the loft. It only cost me £30, so it seemed like a sensible
investment.
Al
AL_z
> If the OP uses a gas oven it'll have a flame failure device so, assuming
> no large turkey etc is left in the oven, is there a real risk of things
> falling on the naked flame or from it blowing out?
>
> The CO risk can be mitigated by a CO detector (~œ15) beside the bed.
>
> But it does work best if the kitchen is under the bedroom.
>
> Another good investment, if not already owned, would be an all night
> underblanket.
Thanks for the info on modern gas cookers and other suggestions.
Underblankets are nice for keeping warm in bed. There is also a much
cheaper way of keeping warm in bed: using four 15-tog duvets (three on top
and one underneath)! I kept comfortable that way once, even when temps
dropped to minus 6 degrees.
It's keeping the house warm enough for comfort during the daytime and
evenings that I'm mainly concerned about. Sealing all the windows will be
one measure I should probably take. Eliminating drafts is important, I
think.
Al
AL_z
> I have 2 thermostatic controlled electric heaters and a portable
> oil filled heater, if you are local to TF3 you are more than welcome
> to them.
Hi, TF3 is Telford, I think? No that's way to far away, but thanks. In any
case, I'm hoping to not to have to resort to electrical heating, as I am
under the impression it would be too expensive. I may be wrong about that,
especially considering that one can quickly warm up individual rooms with a
good fan heater (the room that one is currently using)...
Al
AL_z
> The obvious first thing would be to check the loft insulation because
> that is as cheap as chips to put right and can make a huge difference.
Thanks - yes, I have just installed loft insulation, after seeing a 3 - for
one offer. I installed 170mm of rock wool.
>
> Have you considered balanced flue gas convector heaters? Just one in the
> hall would be much better and safer than using a cooker.
Thanks for this suggestion. No, I haven't considered those - because I was
unaware such things existed! I must investigate... If anyone has any
firther advice on these, I'd welcome it.
Al
S Viemeister
> "Robin"<s...@sig.sep> wrote in news:ICreo.27374$bD2.24728@hurricane:
>
>> If the OP uses a gas oven it'll have a flame failure device so, assuming
>> no large turkey etc is left in the oven, is there a real risk of things
>> falling on the naked flame or from it blowing out?
>>
>> The CO risk can be mitigated by a CO detector (~œ15) beside the bed.
>>
>> But it does work best if the kitchen is under the bedroom.
>>
>> Another good investment, if not already owned, would be an all night
>> underblanket.
>
> Thanks for the info on modern gas cookers and other suggestions.
> Underblankets are nice for keeping warm in bed. There is also a much
> cheaper way of keeping warm in bed: using four 15-tog duvets (three on top
> and one underneath)! I kept comfortable that way once, even when temps
> dropped to minus 6 degrees.
>
AL_z
news:4c7a57ad$0$28006$db0f...@news.zen.co.uk:
Thanks for your suggestions. The fan idea seems worth noting.
Storage heaters - I've never considered them; I've always thought of them
as expensive and rather innefective during the evenings, when they are
most needed. The only one I've ever used was a rather old (probably
1970's vintage). It was rather ineffective. I ended up dismantling it and
using the internal tiles for a paving job outside!
I expect modern ones are better, and probably worth thinking about...
Al
AL_z
a44cbc...@h19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com:
> Sadly, no you can not because of the amount of water vapour
> produced :-)
>
> #1 - You will probably qualify for free loft insulation.
> Despite what some say, it DOES make a big difference in that less heat
> is required AND you do not get the same cold air plunging down from
> the ceiling (particularly the hall). It does matter that the
> installers do it right (I have just drilled the upstairs ceiling in 6
> places and I am met by a howling gale in my mouth).
Thanks for the ideas. I've just done the loft (170mm rockwool).
>
> #2 - If you have chimney's do you have a working gas fire?
> If so, you can heat a house off 1 radiant gas fire, many people right
> through to their 90s do. It is not as cheap to run as GCH but it gives
> you radiant warmth.
It's do-able, as I do have a fireplace in the lounge.
> #3 - You may qualify for GCH or E7 Storage heaters under ?StayWarm?
> Yes, they also install E7 heating which is low capital and relatively
> low running cost - if you have both Loft AND Cavity Wall Insulation
> (assuming you have a cavity wall).
Half of my house has cavity walls with a 1.5" sheet of foam polystyrene
in the cavity. The other half has solid stone walls (built in 1850).
>
> Heat only the areas you need to.
> #1 - Heat the living area to 19oC minimum, ideal is more like 21oC.
> #2 - Heat the bedrooms to about 12oC minimum, ideal is about 14oC.
> #3 - If you see black mould anywhere you need to a) increase heating
> or b) increase ventilation (and increase heating a little).
> #4 - Wear more clothing (look around now in the charity shops or Ebay
> for "Fleece" sweatshirts and ideally jog pants which you can slip over
> normal clothing.
> #5 - Use a high TOG duvet
> #6 - If single glazed, open the window on the upstairs bedroom for
> 30min every morning. That will clear the water (mop up the rest) and
> get fresh air into the house.
> #7 - Draught excluder is cheap and effective, letterbox brush, door
> floor-level brush, windows & doors.
Good advice. I kept warm through last winter using duvets (three on top
and one underneath!) and warm clothes. I was living in a van, while
looking for a house. The hot water bottle was a good invention.
> Alternative.
> You can get Gas Wall Heaters for about £190-250. This would be ideal
> if you do not have a chimney in the living room. They are 90%
> efficient, they draw in cold air from *outside* and so do not create a
> howling draught through the house like a roaring gas fire with class-1
> chimney, they are reliable and no CO or oxygen depletion risk. They
> are great as a standalone backup solution which at 1.5-2kW output is
> quite capable of heating a house (48kW in a day without drawing in
> freezing cold air to do it).
That sounds very interesting.
> Do not try to heat a house by a gas oven. If you need an oven cheaply
> beware buying second hand without knowing how to check things work
> (especially for gas). However do not try to heat a house by it.
>
> A colleague lived in the box-room of his house last winter having had
> to put up so much money due to the "credit crunch" for a business
> which was still operating fine, just high leverage (plant hire
> company, "UK & Dubai PLC stopped building"). He glued 50mm celotex to
> the walls for a neat foil-coloured wallpaper effect, added felt on top
> of carpet underlay as it rockets the TOG rating, the loft insulation
> was ok, cost very little to heat it over the winter. Heat from a
> laptop was welcome, crunching the numbers so the business is now
> booming (in business you often do not have to do more than survive
> your competitors, because you get their business when they fail).
Thanks again for your helpful interesting input.
Al
AL_z
@mid.individual.net:
> Two or three hot-water bottles work pretty well, too.
That's a good idea which I've never considered before.
Al
Owain
> > Have you considered balanced flue gas convector heaters? Just one in the
> > hall would be much better and safer than using a cooker.
> Thanks for this suggestion. No, I haven't considered those - because I was
> unaware such things existed! I must investigate... If anyone has any
> firther advice on these, I'd welcome it.
http://www.bhl.co.uk/category/Gas_Wall_Heaters
http://www.plumbnation.co.uk/site/gas-wall-heaters/
They need fixing on an external wall as the flue goes straight through
the wall. The plumbnation pages have links to the user and installer
guide.
Owain
Owain
> > Underblankets are nice for keeping warm in bed. There is also a much
> > cheaper way of keeping warm in bed: using four 15-tog duvets (three on top
> > and one underneath)! I kept comfortable that way once, even when temps
> > dropped to minus 6 degrees.
Yebbut the bit of nose that emerges gets rather cold.
> Two or three hot-water bottles work pretty well, too.
Couple of cats are very effective, especially if you can persuade them
to come under the duvet with you. I'm not sure how cost-effective they
are though, in terms of calorific value of Whiskas and the conversion
effiency.
> > It's keeping the house warm enough for comfort during the daytime and
> > evenings that I'm mainly concerned about. Sealing all the windows will be
> > one measure I should probably take. Eliminating drafts is important, I
> > think.
Please be very careful about eliminating ventilation if you are
heating the house with the cooker or any other gas appliance that is
not room-sealed / balanced flue.
Owain
Grimly Curmudgeon
drugs began to take hold. I remember MM <kyli...@yahoo.co.uk> saying
something like:
>The fact is, you could insulate until the cows come home but in a
>severe winter you're still going to need heating. Maybe a straw bale
>thickness of straw around the entire house (external walls) might be
>effective, but you can fill the loft with insulation and still be
>freezing your bits off with the heat escaping through the windows and
>walls. This constant plea for more insulation is, IMO, just a ploy to
>provide more business for the insulation suppliers!
Bollocks. Have you ever lived in a super-insulated house?
Andy Dingley
> I'm wondering how I
> can keep the house warm (cheaply) during the coming winter.
Insulation, insulation, insulation. And draughtproofing.
Cheaper than heating and works better too - you get a more evenly warm
house, rather than one that's hot and cold in spots. Spend some time
sorting out draughts around doors and windows. Install secondary
double glazing, either plastic sheet in a simple wooden frame, or even
the stuck on flexible plastic sheet. Either the re-usable plastic
sheet or the one-season "cling film" that you tension with a hairdryer
afterwards is worth the trouble. Loft insulation is a messy, but easy,
job.
You might also shrink the house a bit. If there's a spare bedroom you
aren't using, not only insulate that to the outside, but also close
its door and tape the gaps shut. Draught proof the door of the main
living room and keep it closed when you're in there. It's not too
difficult or expensive to heat a single room, certainly not compared
to a house. Let the bedrooms go cold (this is just how things were,
back when I was a kid) and keep the bed warm with a good duvet and
wearing something in bed. A good dressing gown is an encouragement to
getting out of it.
I doubt if the gas cooker is terribly effective as a heating
appliance, and it certainly won't be cheap.
Your best bet is probably to try and address personal comfort vs.
house temperature, rather than trying to raise the temperature so
much. Dress warmly. Don't expect to be wearing just shirtsleeves in
the depths of winter, even indoors. Also try to get one room
comfortable, at the cost of the others, rather than trying to heat the
whole house as you'd like and not really achieving it.
ARWadsworth
"AL_z" <fgdf...@fghfghfg.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9DE3C95B...@130.133.4.11...
Wood if you can scavenge for it. Or buying a bag of coal for the very cold
days.
--
Adam
Bernard Peek
> Let the bedrooms go cold (this is just how things were,
> back when I was a kid) and keep the bed warm with a good duvet and
> wearing something in bed.
Never underestimate the joy of socks! They keep you warm in bed and
avoid the shock of bare feet on a cold floor in the morning. A woolly
hat isn't the sexiest nightware but it will keep your head warm.
--
Bernard Peek
b...@shrdlu.com
Jules Richardson
> Yebbut the bit of nose that emerges gets rather cold.
>
>> Two or three hot-water bottles work pretty well, too.
>
> Couple of cats are very effective, especially if you can persuade them
> to come under the duvet with you.
Yeah, I remember staying with some friends for a while when I was in NZ,
and their cat would burrow under the duvet at night and curl up next to
me.
Dogs make great little portable heaters during the day, too - one for the
lap and one for the feet (we've got a big place with heating that's not
really up to the job, and it often hits -30 here during deep winter)
I've not yet found a solution to keep my hands warm but still allow me to
do stuff, though. Typing with gloves on doesn't really work :-)
cheers
Jules
Andy Champ
>
> I've not yet found a solution to keep my hands warm but still allow me to
> do stuff, though. Typing with gloves on doesn't really work :-)
>
http://www.thearmystore.co.uk/acatalog/Thermal_Fingerless_Gloves.html
(not a recommendation for that web site BTW)
Albert Steptoe
AL_z
news:1a71011c-24d0-45ba...@t2g2000yqe.googlegroups.com:
> On Aug 29, 8:24 pm, S Viemeister wrote:
>> > Underblankets are nice for keeping warm in bed. There is also a
>> > much cheaper way of keeping warm in bed: using four 15-tog duvets
>> > (three on
> top
>> > and one underneath)! I kept comfortable that way once, even when
>> > temps dropped to minus 6 degrees.
>
> Yebbut the bit of nose that emerges gets rather cold.
That's true. The only uncomfortable bit was breathing the freezing air.
>> Two or three hot-water bottles work pretty well, too.
>
> Couple of cats are very effective, especially if you can persuade them
> to come under the duvet with you.
Avoid vindaloo for supper, or they will never be persuaded again!
I'm not sure how cost-effective they
> are though, in terms of calorific value of Whiskas and the conversion
> effiency.
> Please be very careful about eliminating ventilation if you are
> heating the house with the cooker or any other gas appliance that is
> not room-sealed / balanced flue.
I wondered about that. I wonder if one could easily make a standard 3-bed
house airtight to the extent that the carbon monoxide from a gas cooker
would be a hazard... maybe if you had all four rings and the oven going
at once; I don't know.
Al
AL_z
a07a-e27...@f6g2000yqa.googlegroups.com:
> You might also shrink the house a bit. If there's a spare bedroom you
> aren't using, not only insulate that to the outside, but also close
> its door and tape the gaps shut. Draught proof the door of the main
> living room and keep it closed when you're in there.
That's a really good idea - thanks - and thanks for the other good
suggestions.
Al
S Viemeister
> Owain<spuorg...@gowanhill.com> wrote in
>> Please be very careful about eliminating ventilation if you are
>> heating the house with the cooker or any other gas appliance that is
>> not room-sealed / balanced flue.
>
> I wondered about that. I wonder if one could easily make a standard 3-bed
> house airtight to the extent that the carbon monoxide from a gas cooker
> would be a hazard... maybe if you had all four rings and the oven going
> at once; I don't know.
>
I would think that the danger is not just the presence of CO, but the
absence of oxygen.
AL_z
@news.zen.co.uk:
>
>
> Never underestimate the joy of socks! They keep you warm in bed and
> avoid the shock of bare feet on a cold floor in the morning. A woolly
> hat isn't the sexiest nightware but it will keep your head warm.
I totally agree. When I was living in my van at minus 6 degrees, I had some
2.5 tog socks which were just the ticket. I found that half the trick of
staying warm was to make sure head, hands and feet were well insulated. I
had a fleecy helmet thing, rather like a medieval knight's chainmail head-
thingie, but made of nice soft fleece, with drawstring to adjust the sice
of the face-hole! It really, really helped.
Al
Jules Richardson
>> I've not yet found a solution to keep my hands warm but still allow me
>> to do stuff, though. Typing with gloves on doesn't really work :-)
>>
> http://www.thearmystore.co.uk/acatalog/Thermal_Fingerless_Gloves.html
Thanks - might try something like that! I have really crappy circulation
in my hands, so they feel the cold more than anything else.
cheers
Jules
Derek Geldard
>
>I'm in dire straits, financially, having just spent every penny I own on a
>house, and I am unable to work, due to a long-term illness. The house has
>no central heating. However, it does have a gas supply. I'm wondering how I
>can keep the house warm (cheaply) during the coming winter. If I install a
>gas cooker, I imagine this would produce enough heat to warm the house to
>some extent. This would be heck of a lot cheaper than installing central
>heating, and I think it would be more efficient, because all of the heat
>produced will be going into the house, (rather than some going out through
>the flue, as in the case of gas central heating). But would doing this
>present a health danger, due to the carbon monoxide and other poisonous
>gasses going into the house's breathable air space? I know that free-
>standing calor gas heaters are commonplace, and perfectly legal,
They are also perfectly awful adding large amounts of water to the
room, causing black moulds and asthma and hence being responsible for
the deterioration and ultimate demolition of a lot of '60s "Piggeries"
style housing.
> so perhaps
>using a gas cooker to do the same thing is basically no different. What do
>you think?
>
I would guess that a diversity factor is applied to the use of gas
cookers. IE. the assumption being made that not all rings / burners
are always on at once, and not in continuous use 12, 20, 24 Hrs /day.
Part and parcel of this would be the assumption of the provision of
adequate ventilation. If the room air runs out of oxygen the appliance
*will* produce CO2.
Trouble is if adequate air from outside is provided for an open flame
appliance the induction of cold air and the removal of heated air make
the setup very inefficient and expensive to operate. It was precisely
this problem that led to the general adoption of central heating in
the 50's and 60's. The cost of primitive heating for one room
equalling or exceeding the cost of heating the whole house with CH.
>Thanks...
>
Derek
The Natural Philosopher
I think this is very pertinent.
With open flame unflued appliances - and I remember paraffin heaters
too..there is a huge risk of massive condensation.
The moulds you are likely to get are lethal for bronchial conditions. If
you have adequate ventilation a lot of the benefits of the heat are lost.
Really, the best and cheapest *capital cost* heat is a fan blown
electric heater.
IF you can relatively seal a single room fairly tight, and insulate a
single room, then a 1-2KW heater should be more than enough to stay warm.
Yes its more expensive than gas or oil but not THAT much more.
If its survival on a minimal budget, then really that is the best bet.
Other things you can do are simple enough: if you have single glazing -
or even double - buy second hand GOOD quality curtains with interlining
and lining: three layers of fabric in all.
That makes a considerable difference to window losses.
Seal up any old fireplaces you cant afford to run, as they are big losses.
If you have a suspended wooden floor, strip it of carpet, and cover in
hardboard to stop any draughts. tape the joints with duct tape. If there
are still gaps at skirting level, use decorators caulk to seal
those.Then put back some form of underlay and any fitted carpets.
Seal every door with quality draught strip.
If you have solid brick wall, don't stuff around. Any insulation is
better than none. I've used cork tiles in kitchens and bathrooms to help
reduce heat loss and stop condensation.
Aim to live and sleep in one room. Make sure that room at least is
draught free and as insulated as you can get it. Even blankets nailed to
battens are a form of wall insulation. Even a bookcase full of books is
wall insulation.
There is so much you can do in older properties on a limited budget,
once you realise its not a ditzy game of interior decoration: Its sheer
survival in a hard winter with fuck all money in the bank.
And these days there is no shame whatsoever in being in that position:
that's the way it is, and the way its going to be for many years to come.
dennis@home
"Derek Geldard" <im...@miniac.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:h1hn76t75ie04f9ku...@4ax.com...
> Part and parcel of this would be the assumption of the provision of
> adequate ventilation. If the room air runs out of oxygen the appliance
> *will* produce CO2.
ITYM CO it will produce CO2 normally.
CO (carbon monoxide) is very poisonous and will kill you unless you notice
the symptoms.
Andy Champ
>
> Part and parcel of this would be the assumption of the provision of
> adequate ventilation. If the room air runs out of oxygen the appliance
> *will* produce CO2.
>
dioxide (CO2) and water (H2O). [Please read both those 2s as
subscripted]. Don't panic about these, they aren't really dangerous in
reasonable quantities - you'll get out of breath, and the walls will
drip, but that's about it.
Run out of oxygen and you'll die. Before the appliance I think.
Set the appliance up badly and you'll get carbon MONoxide, CO.
Depending on your luck this will give you a splitting headache and the
world's worst hangover. Or you'll die painlessly in your sleep.
Carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide really are significantly different.
Andy
AL_z
@news.albasani.net:
> And these days there is no shame whatsoever in being in that position:
> that's the way it is, and the way its going to be for many years to come.
You could well be right about that. Good post - thank you.
Al
ARWadsworth
There is very little difference between new storage heaters and the old
ones.
They absorb heat throughout the night and disperse it throughout the daytime
and the laws of pyhsics have not changed since the 1970s.
If you are likely to be in a position to install CH in a year or so then any
storage heaters that you buy now will be dead money and it might be better
to use a fan heater in the room that you are in to keep warm.
--
Adam
Derek Geldard
<den...@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote:
>
>
>"Derek Geldard" <im...@miniac.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:h1hn76t75ie04f9ku...@4ax.com...
>
>> Part and parcel of this would be the assumption of the provision of
>> adequate ventilation. If the room air runs out of oxygen the appliance
>> *will* produce CO2.
>
>ITYM CO
I did.
That was very slack of me. Looking forward to me tea.
Derek
Owain
> If you are likely to be in a position to install CH in a year or so then any
> storage heaters that you buy now will be dead money
OTOH they can be picked up second hand for a pittance if you can
collect them yourself.
(Note to OP: they are heavy, need to be dismantled, and older ones can
contain asbestos.)
Owain
Grimly Curmudgeon
<jules.richa...@gmail.com> saying something like:
>> http://www.thearmystore.co.uk/acatalog/Thermal_Fingerless_Gloves.html
>
>Thanks - might try something like that! I have really crappy circulation
>in my hands, so they feel the cold more than anything else.
I can vouch for the efficacy of those, in general.
AL_z
news:V4Teo.77298$S_1.19774@hurricane:
>
> There is very little difference between new storage heaters and the
> old ones.
>
> They absorb heat throughout the night and disperse it throughout the
> daytime and the laws of pyhsics have not changed since the 1970s.
The laws of pysics haven't changed, but I thought the materials (heat-
storing blocks, etc., might have improved a bit, over tha past three
decades, along with the internal insulation materials. I'll take your word
for it that things haven't improved.
>
> If you are likely to be in a position to install CH in a year or so
> then any storage heaters that you buy now will be dead money and it
> might be better to use a fan heater in the room that you are in to
> keep warm.
That seems to be the answer then. I must look for a couple of (relatively)
hefty fan heaters with integrated thermostats. Mind you, those things do
tend top make a racket! perhaps convector heaters would also do the trick
but without the noise...
Cheers,
Al
AL_z
8883c8...@t20g2000yqa.googlegroups.com:
> OTOH they can be picked up second hand for a pittance if you can
> collect them yourself.
Yes, that's a good point. I can even imagine people being willing to pay
for them to be taken away, due to the weight!
> (Note to OP: they are heavy, need to be dismantled, and older ones can
> contain asbestos.)
Ah, thanks for that. I never thought of that when I destroyed my old one a
few years ago!
Al
>
John MacLeod
> I'm in dire straits, financially, having just spent every penny I own on a
> no central heating. However, it does have a gas supply. I'm wondering how I
> gas cooker, I imagine this would produce enough heat to warm the house to
> some extent. This would be heck of a lot cheaper than installing central
> heating, and I think it would be more efficient, because all of the heat
> produced will be going into the house, (rather than some going out through
> the flue, as in the case of gas central heating). But would doing this
> present a health danger, due to the carbon monoxide and other poisonous
> gasses going into the house's breathable air space? I know that free-
> using a gas cooker to do the same thing is basically no different. What do
> you think?
You've had a lot of advice, some of it very relevant.
May I add just a couple of points:
1. You don't need to have a room very warm in order to be
comfortable. If you can get the AIR temperature to 50°F / 10°C you
can be very comfortable indeed PROVIDED you are in either a current of
warm air or a beam of radiant heat.
2. Fan heaters have their place and I use them extensively in
providing frost protection in buildings disused in winter. However,
domestic fan heaters used long-term aren't exactly reliable. Models
designed for commercial purposes are very much better, though sadly a
bit more expensive and difficult to obtain. Don't dismiss the
possibility of spot heat from infra-red heaters. Actually, the most
effective spot heating is from one of the old-fashioned "heat and
light" bulbs once in such common use in bathrooms. They do work and
they're not dear. Obviously you've got to be sitting in the direct
beam, but they can make life very comfortable at a relatively low air
temperature.
These http://www.e-tradecounter.co.uk/p-62-multi-purpose-convector-heater.aspx
have proved particularly reliable.
This http://www.mynewcheap.co.uk/products/details/industrial-fan-heater-2kw-3-heat-settings/34143/
or similar might suit your purposes better.
Note the type of element (like a typical cooker element and the style
of fan. Much less likely to disintegrate in a few months of almost
continuous use.
js.b1
and reliable. Not difficult to get 25yrs out of a storage heater.
Early storage heaters had poor insulation and leaked the majority of
their heat overnight. Anything after about 1985 used microtherm silica-
board or rockwool. They are the "slim" type which is 130-150mm or so
vs "250mm". There are still 250-285mm depth storage heaters, but they
are the better commercial type (less heat leakage overnight, heat on
demand via a thermostat, but cost about £800-1400).
Storage heaters work ok when you have a *lot* of insulation and they
are sized correctly (not too large or tool small), but they still need
a fair bit of adjustment even if an "Automatic" model.
Simple storage heaters just charge overnight and leak heat out during
the day. They retain about 50% or so of their heat and are relatively
cool by about 7pm.
Fan assisted storage heaters do the same, have slightly better
insulation, retain more of their heat and are somewhat warmer by about
7pm.
Commercial fan storage heaters have very high levels of insulation,
retain the bulk of their heat and are basically "heat on demand" as
long as you charged it the night before. They can have a wall mounted
thermostat, Elnur do a 4kW model which is a lot cheaper than the other
commercial types (Creda & Dimplex VFM).
Dimplex Duoheat storage heaters take a different approach. They have a
smaller than usual storage heater part (such as 2.55kW compared to
3.3kW) and a peak-rate boost heater on the front of 0.4kW which acts
to top-up from 2pm to 12pm-2am. They avoid the "roasting overnight,
cold the following evening" by saving a bit of money on the night
charge and spending a bit more money on the peak rate period - they
cost about 20% more than an all-E7 heater but provide better comfort
control (it is by a thermistor rather than cruder bimetallic strip &
capillary thermostats). Creda Credanet are the same thing. Both have
remote programmers if required.
To make Duoheat work you need very high insulation levels because
otherwise you end up needing two DUO500n because of the night storage
capacity (they are only 2.55kW) which at 1m long can be difficult to
fit in.
It is worth having a storage heater in (say) a hall as backup for if
the GCH fails, either that or a gas wall heater (which has the benefit
of on-demand heating). If you have a living room with no chimney, but
an outside wall, look at the various gas wall heaters - I think there
are decorative versions with balanced flue. Balanced flue means it
draws in combustion air through one duct and exports combustion
byproducts through the other duct, they are called "room sealed". Some
are available with thermostats, but most are not. I think Robinson
Wiley do a cheapish one at about £150 online. It still needs fitting,
gas piping to it with valve & pressure test point, but they are very
good on-demand & backup heaters.
Storage heaters are good for the retired, because they are at home all
day.
Andy Dingley
> (Note to OP: they are heavy, need to be dismantled, and older ones can
> contain asbestos.)
They haven't contained asbestos for a very long time ('70s? '80s?) At
the same time they removed the asbestos content on safety grounds, the
new forms of brock and insulation that came into use were also far
more effective at storing energy without loss, then releasing it when
you needed it. They were also lighter.
So disregarding any asbestos hazard, you just don't want one of the
old sort of storage heater. The post-asbestos ones are far superior.
Not IMHO very good, but certainly the better sort of storage heater.
js.b1
wrote:
> This http://www.mynewcheap.co.uk/products/details/industrial-fan-heater-2k...
> or similar might suit your purposes better.
Sealey EH2000 industrial fan heater (basically).
Many variants of that type available.
> Note the type of element (like a typical cooker element and the style
> of fan. Much less likely to disintegrate in a few months of almost
> continuous use.
Mineral Insulated Copper Sheathed (MICS).
How noisy is the fan on that type of heater?
Is it louder than a conventional "shoebox on the floor plastic heater"?
ARWadsworth
Yes they are often given away.
But they still would need an electrical installation and probably a new CU
to supply them.
--
Adam
AL_z
3595d1...@z7g2000yqg.googlegroups.com:
> Storage heaters are still popular because they are low capital cost
> and reliable. Not difficult to get 25yrs out of a storage heater.
>
> Early storage heaters had poor insulation and leaked the majority of
> their heat overnight. Anything after about 1985 used microtherm silica-
> board or rockwool. They are the "slim" type which is 130-150mm or so
> vs "250mm". There are still 250-285mm depth storage heaters, but they
> are the better commercial type (less heat leakage overnight, heat on
> demand via a thermostat, but cost about £800-1400).
[trimmed]
Many thanks for the informative response. A lot of useful info there. Yes,
I was thinking of siting something in the hallway, as the hallway is kind
of central to the house and right at the bottom of the stairs. I am at home
most of the day due to long-term disability, so maybe I should hunt around
for a used storage heater or two or three.
Al
AL_z
news:2eb7ebaa-c3bf-4c89...@l6g2000yqb.googlegroups.com:
> 1. You don't need to have a room very warm in order to be
> comfortable. If you can get the AIR temperature to 50蚌 / 10蚓 you
> can be very comfortable indeed PROVIDED you are in either a current of
> warm air or a beam of radiant heat.
>
> 2. Fan heaters have their place and I use them extensively in
> providing frost protection in buildings disused in winter. However,
> domestic fan heaters used long-term aren't exactly reliable. Models
> designed for commercial purposes are very much better, though sadly a
> bit more expensive and difficult to obtain. Don't dismiss the
> possibility of spot heat from infra-red heaters. Actually, the most
> effective spot heating is from one of the old-fashioned "heat and
> light" bulbs once in such common use in bathrooms. They do work and
> they're not dear. Obviously you've got to be sitting in the direct
> beam, but they can make life very comfortable at a relatively low air
> temperature.
> These
> http://www.e-tradecounter.co.uk/p-62-multi-purpose-convector-heater.asp
> x have proved particularly reliable.
> This
> http://www.mynewcheap.co.uk/products/details/industrial-fan-heater-2kw-
> 3-heat-settings/34143/ or similar might suit your purposes better.
>
> Note the type of element (like a typical cooker element and the style
> of fan. Much less likely to disintegrate in a few months of almost
> continuous use.
Thanks for the input. As it happens, I actually have an infra-red
spotlamp bulb. I was always afraid to use it, as it was (I think) 200W,
which I thought would cause my light fittings and wiring to overheat. I
think my father bought it in the 1980's hoping it would relieve his
lumbago. But yes, they are certainly a way of getting some instant heat
from above.
Al
The Natural Philosopher
midday. After that they have given up the ghost.
They are bloody USELESS in the evenings.
js.b1
wrote:
> really, the only time most storage heaters heat a house, is midnight to
> midday. After that they have given up the ghost. They are bloody
> USELESS in the evenings.
Insulation is key - it needs to be to 2010 standards, then you can
combine typically off-peak combined with peak via controller. It still
needs to be "rabbit hutch sized" though, not some sprawling place :-)
For the OP, a gas mounted wall heater would be a good quick solution.
Cheap to buy, cheap to install, cheap to run, do not rip icy cold air
through the house and up a flue so the real world efficiency is double
that of a radiant gas fire which in a nutshell is why CH was adopted.
Either that or live in the easiest to heat room, heating just that.
dennis@home
"js.b1" <js...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:ed5e7892-d0fe-4b2b...@d8g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...
> On Sep 1, 1:40 am, The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid>
> wrote:
>> really, the only time most storage heaters heat a house, is midnight to
>> midday. After that they have given up the ghost. They are bloody
>> USELESS in the evenings.
>
> Insulation is key - it needs to be to 2010 standards, then you can
> combine typically off-peak combined with peak via controller. It still
> needs to be "rabbit hutch sized" though, not some sprawling place :-)
You are wasting your time TNP doesn't know anything about heating really and
doesn't care.
For example how about masonry heaters, they are just big storage heaters and
they work quite well.
>
> For the OP, a gas mounted wall heater would be a good quick solution.
> Cheap to buy, cheap to install, cheap to run, do not rip icy cold air
> through the house and up a flue so the real world efficiency is double
> that of a radiant gas fire which in a nutshell is why CH was adopted.
I agree. One or two of those will be pretty effective and cheaper to run
than a gas cooker as they require no additional ventilation.
They are also cost less to run than most gas fires.
Andy Dingley
> I actually have an infra-red spotlamp bulb.
[...]
> they are certainly a way of getting some instant heat from above.
A much better version of this (albeit expensive to buy) is the more
modern long wavelength infra-red heating element - a flat white
ceramic plate with a snaking rib on the front, rather than the old
bulbs and tubes. The advantage of these is that they still heat you,
but they don't heat the air between you and the heater. In terms of
perceived comfort, I'd rate them as three or four times as efficient.
I use them in cold, unheatable workshops. I've a 500W one over my
joinery bench.
Alan Braggins
>On Sep 1, 1:40 am, The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid>
>wrote:
>> really, the only time most storage heaters heat a house, is midnight to
>> midday. After that they have given up the ghost. They are bloody
>> USELESS in the evenings.
>
>Insulation is key - it needs to be to 2010 standards, then you can
>combine typically off-peak combined with peak via controller. It still
>needs to be "rabbit hutch sized" though, not some sprawling place :-)
I had a storage heater which worked fine in the evenings in a 1970s house.
(Central storage heater with hot air heating. I had added loft insulation
and had cavity wall insulation and double glazing done. It was a small house,
and being in the middle of a terrace two walls were effectively perfectly
insulated. But neighbours in the end of terrace house had individual
storage heaters (their central system had died), and it worked for them.)
If you have undersized storage heaters in a poorly insulated sprawling
house, then they will be useless in the evening, obviously.
ARWadsworth
> "js.b1" <js...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> news:ed5e7892-d0fe-4b2b...@d8g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...
>> On Sep 1, 1:40 am, The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>> really, the only time most storage heaters heat a house, is
>>> midnight to midday. After that they have given up the ghost. They
>>> are bloody USELESS in the evenings.
>>
>> Insulation is key - it needs to be to 2010 standards, then you can
>> combine typically off-peak combined with peak via controller. It
>> still needs to be "rabbit hutch sized" though, not some sprawling
>> place :-)
>
> You are wasting your time TNP doesn't know anything about heating
> really and doesn't care.
> For example how about masonry heaters, they are just big storage
> heaters and they work quite well.
Well he knows that electric storage heaters are shit.
--
Adam
The Natural Philosopher
jgharston
> I think this continual insulate-insulate-insulate story is being
> overdone now.
I've been warning about for years. I now live in a new-build house
that's insulated up to the eyeballs, and these last two months it's
been hellishly hot upstairs, even with all windows open to try and
encourage a through-draft.
And this is Aberdeenshire!!!!
JGH
John MacLeod
> On Aug 31, 1:38 pm, John MacLeod <revjohnmacl...@googlemail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > This http://www.mynewcheap.co.uk/products/details/industrial-fan-heater-2k...
> > or similar might suit your purposes better.
>
> Sealey EH2000 industrial fan heater (basically).
> Many variants of that type available.
Quite.
>
> > Note the type of element (like a typical cooker element and the style
> > of fan. Much less likely to disintegrate in a few months of almost
> > continuous use.
>
> Mineral Insulated Copper Sheathed (MICS).
Quite. Very long lifespan indeed. As opposed to some of ribbon-type
elements and wire-coil type elements in cheaper fan heaters which just
don't stand up to long-term use.
> How noisy is the fan on that type of heater?
> Is it louder than a conventional "shoebox on the floor plastic heater"?
How long is a piece of string? Generally speaking they're quieter
than the the fans on domestic heaters of equivalent power, but that's
not always so. The Consort heaters to which I referred specifically
have a very quiet fan, but a low heat output even from the bigger
model. Noise is dependent not only on the type of fan but on the
speed at which it is driven and the quality of build. Tangential
fans as used on many domestic fan heaters should in theory be quiet
-- and a well-built tangential fan is a quiet design -- but in the
application of a cheap fan heater they're usually very poorly built,
rapidly become noisy and are usually trying to move a great deal of
air through a very difficult path.
AL_z
b009-aa0...@f25g2000yqc.googlegroups.com:
That sounds interesting. Can you provide a link to retailer with prices,
etc?
I searched and found this page about Lexin flat-screen infrared heating
panels which got my interest: http://tinyurl.com/37t22cv
I couldn't seem to find any prices for this type of product though.
Al
Andy Burns
> I searched and found this page about Lexin flat-screen infrared heating
> panels which got my interest: http://tinyurl.com/37t22cv
>
> I couldn't seem to find any prices for this type of product though.
I had a look earlier and could only see the "raw" elements
http://www.nphheaters.com/quote/ceramic_infrared_heaters.htm
but not any consumer products, it does include an ES bulb that might be
easier to use, but still needs caging ...
Andy Dingley
> Andy Dingley <ding...@codesmiths.com> wrote in news:7560e972-6032-41b8-
> > a flat white
> > ceramic plate with a snaking rib on the front, rather than the old
> > bulbs and tubes.
> That sounds interesting. Can you provide a link to retailer with prices,
> etc?
Hmmm... Evidently not. TLC used to sell them, but they now seem to
be offering these instead. Different tech, although the same claimed
advantage. Maybe they've been superseded by the next new best thing?
John MacLeod
I'm certainly not doing a downer on the ceramic plate infra-red
heaters of which there are many types available -- some designed for
domestic use. But they're pricey and the OP was emphasising the need
to be economical. Heat bulbs were suggested on the grounds of
1) Low initial cost
2) Very low running cost
3) Ability to target the heat very precisely indeed.
All radiant heaters target heat, but few do so as accurately as the
reflector of a heat bulb.
The OP raised a point regarding the load on the lamp socket. A fair
point. However, few plastic lampholders are good for anything, IMHO.
I always keep a stock of brass and porcelain lampholders and replace
the plastic ones as they disintegrate from normal use.
Grimly Curmudgeon
<revjohn...@googlemail.com> saying something like:
>I'm certainly not doing a downer on the ceramic plate infra-red
>heaters of which there are many types available -- some designed for
>domestic use. But they're pricey and the OP was emphasising the need
>to be economical. Heat bulbs were suggested on the grounds of
>
>1) Low initial cost
>2) Very low running cost
>3) Ability to target the heat very precisely indeed.
>
>All radiant heaters target heat, but few do so as accurately as the
>reflector of a heat bulb.
I use them as spot heaters, in my workshop and anywhere else it's chilly
enough. The cat loves them.
>The OP raised a point regarding the load on the lamp socket. A fair
>point. However, few plastic lampholders are good for anything, IMHO.
>I always keep a stock of brass and porcelain lampholders and replace
>the plastic ones as they disintegrate from normal use.
For lampholders, I use the pukka farm ones, designed for stock use.
They're a metal body, with a cage in front, suspended from a hook.
John MacLeod
wrote:
> For lampholders, I use the pukka farm ones, designed for stock use.
> They're a metal body, with a cage in front, suspended from a hook.
That sounds interesting. Do you have a web source for them?
Grimly Curmudgeon
drugs began to take hold. I remember John MacLeod
<revjohn...@googlemail.com> saying something like:
>On Sep 4, 1:47 am, Grimly Curmudgeon <grimly4REM...@REMOVEgmail.com>
Similar to this idea, but this is an American one
http://www.enasco.com/product/C07559%28X%29N
Here's some here, and mine is on this page
http://www.hyperdrug.co.uk/Heat-Lamps/products/689/
Mine:
http://www.hyperdrug.co.uk/Standard-Heat-Lamp-with-dimmer/productinfo/HEATLSD/
I find the 250W lamps last no time at all, whereas the 150Ws last
forever and a day.